This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

CFTC Investigating London Gold, Silver Price Fixing For Manipulation

Tyler Durden's picture


Years after the CFTC, under the leadership of Goldman's Gary Gensler, theatrically agreed to investigate whether the price of precious metals was manipulated during trading - whether systematically or ad hoc - only to let that inquiry fizzle and drop the whole idea proclaiming there is manipulation, the commodity futures regulators are once again taking a look at shady activities originating at London. Or rather, it is "discussing internally" whether the daily London gold and silver price fixing is open to manipulation.

We are confident that this latest noble CFTC effort will be for naught: after all wholesale market manipulation like that of Libor and the energy market, is only contained to those sectors. It is preposterous and inconceivable that bankers, anywhere and especially in London, would be tempted to intervene illegally and push gold prices lower. After all, it is not like a surge in gold and precious metal prices is indicative of a loss of faith in the status quo and fiat money, and thus an embeded status quo oligarchy would have any interest in keeping precious metal prices lower. Which is why we urge the CFTC to promptly forget this latest charade, and to instead focus on much more productive things: like ignoring the creeping takeover by HFT of all commodity markets as well as complaining to Congress about its low, low budget.

From the WSJ:

The Commodity Futures Trading Commission is discussing internally whether the daily setting of gold and silver prices in London is open to manipulation, according to people familiar with the situation.


No formal investigation has been opened, the people said. The CFTC is examining various aspects of the so-called price fixings, including whether they are sufficiently transparent, they said.


Gold prices are set twice daily by five banks via teleconference, while three banks set silver prices. The fixings are then used to determine spot prices world-wide, including jewelry and sales from mining companies to refineries. The prices also help determine the value of derivatives tied to the metals.


The London gold market fix dates from 1919, and now sees twice-daily conference calls involving units of five banks: Barclays, Deutsche Bank AG, HSBC Holdings PLC, Bank of Nova Scotia and Société Générale.


Spokespeople for Barclays, HSBC and Deutsche had no immediate comment. Representatives from the other two banks couldn't immediately be reached.


The silver fix, dating from 1897, involves Scotia, Deutsche and HSBC.


"[The fixings are] not arbitrary, it's very much done on a demand supply basis until a price is arrived at. It's fully transparent, it's nothing like Libor," said a spokesman for the London Bullion Market Association, the trade organization that sets the standards for the quality of gold and silver traded in the London market, but do not run the fixings.

Well that settles that, because in a world in which any real assets are the biggest scarcity, would those who have direct and constant access to money created out of thin electrons, prefer to quietly accumulate gold, physical gold not its paper manifestations, in order to preserve their wealth, at low or high prices?

This should not be trick question.


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:07 | 3327559 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

fraud? committed by financial institutions???


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:09 | 3327569 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:11 | 3327574 Lohn Jocke
Lohn Jocke's picture


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:14 | 3327597 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

pass the brown rice please

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:15 | 3327600 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

"After concluding our investigation, the CFTC has found no incidents concerning price fixing or collusion. As a matter of fact we would like to commend JPMorgan, RBS and HSBC for their extraordinary efforts during this exhaustive search for potential wrong-doing in these markets. This should put to rest any and all rumors and accusations in relation to this matter. "

That should do it. Saved the CFTC the trouble of having to go through the motions of an inquiry and posted their press release for them.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:19 | 3327607 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

Nothing a sub-billion dollar fine won't make right (again), right?  Then they don't have to feel so bad for the fraud because see, they paid a fine.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:31 | 3327648 CH1
CH1's picture

And the fine would be paid to... their partners!

That'll fix everything!

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:36 | 3327667 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

It is manipulated.

If the manipulation should fail, gold will be banned or brutally taxed.

Their power is based on money printing. They will never willingly give it up. Never.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:49 | 3327688 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

What gold allows one to do is transfer wealth from one failing governmental paradigm to a new government or country.

It is despised by the banksters and status quo politicians for very good reason.

When your spouse sets up separate bank accounts, cancels joint credit cards and buys a new condo, it doesn't take a PhD from MIT to figure out what's going on.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:12 | 3327748 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Gold price is derived by 5 banks daily via teleconference?  LOL.

Nothing to do with physical demand?  Nothing to do with the admission by the mint, when they suspend sales or are sold out, that the paper price is a fraud?

CFTC is a joke.


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:55 | 3327836 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

The article is enough to make your brain explode from rage.


They're talking about possibly investigating if five banks setting a price can be open to price fixing... Pretty sure five banks getting together to decide on the price is the definition of price manipulation.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:04 | 3327860 flacon
flacon's picture

Oh good. Price discovery. Motherfucker! Oh wait... who's that shithead with the golden tie? Why it's motherfucking Bart Chilton. But he wore a gold tie... doesn't that mean something to you gold bugs? /sarc

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:12 | 3327877 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

"...The Commodity Futures Trading Commission is discussing internally whether the daily setting of gold and silver prices in London is open to manipulation..."

Of course not. This is similar to say, the Libor, which is... Ummm... Hold that thought...
Wed, 03/13/2013 - 20:10 | 3327999 strannick
strannick's picture

The CFTC should have an internal discussion on whether the CFTC manipulates commodity prices by refusing to regulate financial fraud.

Didnt retiring CFTC Justice Painter say how the CFTC Chairperson at the time Wendy Gramm -yes wife of chief deregulatior Phil Gramm- told a newly hired CFTC Judge to never rule in favor of a manipulation-alleging plaintif?

Also, Chilton said that manipulation intent is impossible for the CFTC to prove (maybe implying how inept the CFTC is), which of course begs the question why the CFTC should continue to exist at all.

Then of course there is PBS's ''The Warning'', which chronicles how former CFTC Chairperson Brooksley Born was trying to blow the whistle on derivatives, when she was run out of town by Greenspan, Summers and Rubin.

Or how about bank lobbyist Jill Sommers then appointed as a CFTC Commisioner and then presiding over MFGlobals and Corazine's CFTC hearing and letting him off? 

The CFTC complains to Congress that it needs more money to do its job. The CFTC is doing its job just fine, which is neutering any genuine financial regulation and ensuring banks can commit unimpeded fraud.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:58 | 3328021 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

The problem that we at the cftc continually wrestle with is:

what is the likelihood that the whole house of cards will collapse in such a way that the commodities market (and, therefore, we ourselves) might be blamed *in our lifetime*?

because if the mirage is exposed via a some little dog that pulls away a different curtain than ours, then we're in the clear.

and if some other regulatory entity is blamed, then we're in the clear.

and even if we're blamed, but only after another century passes, then we're in the clear.

therefore we see many pathways leading to our organization being in the clear if we simply sit tight and keep watching.

thanks for your understanding!

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:45 | 3327691 knukles
knukles's picture

Jesus H Fucking Christ People!

It's called a FIXING

What the fuck more is needed?

(words have specific meanings...)

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:37 | 3327799 CH1
CH1's picture

words have specific meanings

Yeah, and you may want to look them up.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:40 | 3327805 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Throwing a bone to the sheeple!


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:33 | 3327661 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

praying that the dog and the pony show ends badly--wikileaks style.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:35 | 3327664 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 21:41 | 3328263 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Sure is a whole lotta shit eminating out of London Lately...



Oh, wait..

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:15 | 3327602 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

quite appropriate, considering that's essentially what JPM and GS do to their financial products before the sales pitch

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:19 | 3327616 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

this is obviously gods work, so how about we let the new pope, with all the integrity his group has, cast that stone...

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 20:22 | 3328090 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Leave the pope out of this.  They are very busy burning piles of child porn.  (hence the black smoke)

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:29 | 3327638 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

The only thing one can be certain of, is that any price arranged by a handfull of guys in a smoke filled teleconference room, is that the price they arive at will NOT be a market price.  If it were, there would be no need for the conference.

Now...which way the price is manipulated may be another question.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:19 | 3327769 Meatballs
Meatballs's picture

Amazingly enough, a couple of them look better without the war paint.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:18 | 3327611 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Unbelievable is believabel ! Please read the Commodity Futures Modernization Act 2000 for more info < might take a couple days tho),28804,1869041_1869040_1869098,00.html

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:18 | 3327612 McMolotov
Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:24 | 3327622 DUNTHAT
DUNTHAT's picture


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:07 | 3327742 rhinoblitzing
rhinoblitzing's picture

Rice Futures.... They are traded in Chicago, Obama is from Chicago - We should Impeach Him - Now!

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:09 | 3327744 rhinoblitzing
rhinoblitzing's picture

He's from Hawaii, and attended Harvard...

Fixed it 4 me! (and up arrowed me 2)

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:11 | 3327576 NemoDeNovo
NemoDeNovo's picture

Heresey to say these FINE Upstanding Financial Professional would ever DREAM of doing something "Illegal" </sarc>

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 02:03 | 3328827 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:24 | 3327594 Spider
Spider's picture

Remember - We NEED the bankers!  If we get rid of them who will take our money from us, use it to pay themselves bonuses based on their profits gambling on exotic derivatives, and then make us pay for it with tax dollars when the toxic assets implode.

Jamie Dimon's toilet aint going to clean itself... 

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:23 | 3327620 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

My stack sits at the bottom of the nearby lake unmolested, save for the occasional nudge by a fish attracted by the shine.

Eagles do shine like spinners.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:27 | 3327632 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

Maybe I should start fishing with the 10 oz. Silver NTR Snake Bars:

The snakes will look like worms to the fish.

And only $0.86 over spot!

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:31 | 3327654 Banksters
Banksters's picture

How do you like this shit?


EXCLUSIVE - U.S. to let spy agencies scour Americans' finances

Reuters) - The Obama administration is drawing up plans to give all U.S. spy agencies full access to a massive database that contains financial data on American citizens and others who bank in the country, according to a Treasury Department document seen by Reuters.


The proposed plan represents a major step by U.S. intelligence agencies to spot and track down terrorist networks and crime syndicates by bringing together financial databanks, criminal records and military intelligence. The plan, which legal experts say is permissible under U.S. law, is nonetheless likely to trigger intense criticism from privacy advocates.


Financial institutions that operate in the United States are required by law to file reports of "suspicious customer activity," such as large money transfers or unusually structured bank accounts, to Treasury's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN).



Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:41 | 3327808 deKevelioc
deKevelioc's picture

Don't worry, Barney Fife is on the case.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:48 | 3327817 johnnymustardseed
johnnymustardseed's picture

Fuck me... don't they know this is a matter of national security (worthless dollars)?

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:07 | 3327563 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

FREE Bart Chilton!

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:09 | 3327570 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

The golden brick road between JPM and the Fed is polished by the cftc workers as we speak?

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:10 | 3327572 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

ZH readers are manipulating the PM supply downward with their flagrant disregard for marine safety standards.

Come on fellas a little more care thanks...

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:26 | 3327911 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

Seems like every month these terrible boating accidents are happening to me...and I'm not even BWI when it happens. Maybe next month I'll get it right.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:11 | 3327579 Wakanda
Wakanda's picture

... yawn ...

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:11 | 3327580 rlouis
rlouis's picture

It only makes sense to close the barn door after the horses have run off to China.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:12 | 3327589 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I'm about giving up any hope of seeing the 'Deer in Headlights' pic on a ZH article again in my lifetime. I think we've gone over the rainbow and will live the rest of our lives in this suspension of disbelief.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:13 | 3327595 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Wake me up when the Saudi's start trading their Oil for bitcoins

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:13 | 3327596 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

wrong spot

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:45 | 3327693 sampo
sampo's picture

"The silver fix, dating from 1897, involves Scotia, Deutsche and HSBC.

"[The fixings are] not arbitrary, it's very much done on a demand supply basis until a price is arrived at. It's fully transparent, it's nothing like Libor," said a spokesman for the London Bullion Market Association, the trade organization that sets the standards for the quality of gold and silver traded in the London market, but do not run the fixings."

So why can't you publish SIFO - rates anymore?

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:26 | 3327786 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

"Cessation of SIFO 11:00 Means with effect from 5th November 2012
Following consultation with the LBMA forward Market Makers, and more generally with other market participants, the LBMA Management Committee has agreed that after 2nd November 2012, the forward Market Makers will cease making contributions of their mid-price silver forward rates to allow the calculation of the SIFO means on the Reuters system each day. The reason for the withdrawal of the dataset was that unlike GOFO these rates were indicative rates only and therefore not dealable rates between forward Market Makers. In addition, since January 2011, the LBMA forward Market Makers have jointly contributed essentially the same data (but covering an extended range of maturities – from spot to 3 years) to the LBMA’s daily forward curve for silver. This forward curve can be obtained from a variety of data vendors (Thomson Reuters, Bloomberg and others). If you are interested in receiving this dataset please refer to the Silver Forward curve page on the LBMA website for further details."

What they're saying here is that the market makers were conspiring, otherwise they couldn't come up with the same numbers. It's LIBOR all over again.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:36 | 3327942 sampo
sampo's picture

Yep, the hologram just got caught all over again. Thanks!

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:15 | 3327599 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

Corzine walks free and Gensler is still breathing.



And they have the balls to ask aloud why people have lost confidence (as well as money).

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:32 | 3327658 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

CTFC - putting the CON in CONfidence


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:16 | 3327601 jeebus
jeebus's picture

When this all falls down, I'll be a very rich man.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:28 | 3327634 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Yeah?  Me too . . . in theory.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:32 | 3327652 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

Me 2, but I'm a bit concerned about what kind of a world it will be at that point. 

If we truly get phucked back to the stone age, PMs might not be worth very much, if anything.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:10 | 3327724 falak pema
falak pema's picture

I'll be scavenging in the rubble looking for fiat mementos of the past; a proud JPM golden eagle here, a Goldman Sachs swastika there, a St Blythe CDS contract rehypothecated fifty times in the City gutter.

Imagine all the unique fiat smart paper you could collect like Third Reich trophees from the REichstag bonfire under katyusha batteries, Stalin's orgues; now become the awesome meltdown of derivative towering infernos; twin towers of WS/City hegemony.

I could then emigrate to Santiago and grow a beard as part of the Odessa community; like a SS hit man smuggled out and retired, who used to sell WMD to the gullible pension funds in his heyday. Moving from my penthouse flat on Park lane to a Santiago or Valparaiso slum dwelling will be tuff; but I'l survive. There will be so many of us City traders on the run, that nostalgia will be our best pastime to kill the bees and fuck the fleas. 

Oh the good ole days of auld lang syne....When we were kings of city and shitty titty ruskis and gobbledy gremlin greeks used to ask us advice! ..."What should I do with my dirty millions, Maestro???"

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:19 | 3327614 10044
10044's picture

And the "discussion" is now officially over. There, you happy? Back to the manipulation

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:19 | 3327615 loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

It is not so much that Gensler (and Schapiro, when in office) are fuggin' blatant liars and obviously on the take... it is that there are ZERO people in the administration or congress or anywhere that give a rat's ass about it... the corruption is so deep and widespread that politicians, regulators, everyone connected in any way to the mega-corrupt banker scum have turned a blind eye to it... we need a total collapse to clean the baffles... ropes and lamposts will be a factor...

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:24 | 3327624 uno
uno's picture

wow, London must be really nervous

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:30 | 3327644 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

...... Yeah, nervous for three years? CFTC has been on the case, where is  Harry Marco PoloBustumust we you need him. Where is that pile of dog doo?

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 21:31 | 3328240 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

We have our best man on ze job...

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:24 | 3327625 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

Did you ever wonder where those race track bookies got the expression "The Fix is in". Now you know.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:28 | 3327635 Cult of Criminality
Cult of Criminality's picture

Big major ripoff by Barrick Gold for years selling other mines gold as theirs and no gold was even mined,Stealing claims and claim jumping.

This was the first I heeard of it through SGT Report.If Zerohedge has covered this i may have missed it... wow what slime Barrick is

It is a Major criminal scam selling millions of ounces of gold that never left the ground . Hmm need to go to Zerohedge search box They have to be on to this.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:28 | 3327639 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:30 | 3327643 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

I will smile when Gensler is dead.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:50 | 3327705 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

and Bernanke, and Greenspan, and Geithner, and Paulson, and Obama, and Holder, and Pelosi, and Buffett, and...

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 06:08 | 3328989 Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

and Rubin ans Rubin and Rubin and Rubin and Rubin and Rubin and...

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 06:07 | 3328990 Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

and Rubin ans Rubin and Rubin and Rubin ans Rubin and Rubin and...

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 03:25 | 3331778 papaclop
papaclop's picture

Don't forget that fool Paul "print more" Krugman.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:30 | 3327645 Pumpkin
Pumpkin's picture

regulators are once again taking a look at shady activities


I stopped reading right there.  Sounds like a lot of unwarranted polictical pressure to me.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:33 | 3327649 atomic180
atomic180's picture

What a farce... we know it...they know it... we know they know it... they know we know they know it...

just go back to doing nothing and were all better off... because we know and you know it's going knowhere...

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:31 | 3327653 THE DOCTOR
THE DOCTOR's picture

  The prices also help determine the value of derivatives tied to the metals.


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:53 | 3327675 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Bingo....that nasty CFMA 2000 strikes again !

    you can lead these horses to water..

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:32 | 3327657 MrBoompi
MrBoompi's picture

These douchebags should just admit they can, and do, manipulate any fucking market they feel like manipulating and be done with it.

What else are we supposed to believe about an organization that calls what they do "the fix"?



Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:33 | 3327659 digalert
digalert's picture

The CFTC itself has been repeatedly accused by the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee (GATA) and many others of being derelict, if not outright complicit, in allowing these trading violations to continue.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:40 | 3327950 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

No doubt they are complicit in criminal activity. So is the FED, SEC, UST, JPM, Barrick, etc...

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:48 | 3327660 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture


why so gloomy? 

I'd say thank you, Gensler, my sweet prince.

Thank  to you I was able to load on phys at discount.



Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:36 | 3327668 CDNX fan
CDNX fan's picture

But my shares in NFLX are screaming higher while the "Stack" I unloaded in 2011 at $45/oz. can be replaced by selling my NFLX stock and buying double the stack I sold back then. Maybe betting WITH the banksters is a smarter move than betting aggin 'em. They are all thieves.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:45 | 3327694 Harry Dong
Harry Dong's picture


You seem to be confusing trading with investing. 

I'm happy I bought silver at $4. I'm happy I bought gold at $325. I'm happy I bought Aapl at $97 (my first stock purchase ever!)

I'm happy I sold Aapl at $135 and never bought it again.

And the silver just keeps looking shinier (but I have to look at the bottom of the lake where I had my boating accident...I can see a glimps of it once in a while).

And, just so we're clear; my rolls of nickels keep getting heavier...I'm thinking they'll make a good partition?

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:02 | 3327729 ljag
ljag's picture


Good luck w/ that" buying back"....just sayin

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:37 | 3327674 The Heart
The Heart's picture

Monkey see...monkey do?

Follow the yellow brick road?

Do as they do, not as they say?

Four Bankers Sentenced to Death for Fraud... In Iran

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:38 | 3327677 philosophers bone
philosophers bone's picture

Dear CFTC:

Can you hold off this investigation for a few years?  I'm still stacking.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:41 | 3327679 Cult of Criminality
Cult of Criminality's picture

If no one has been introduced to ...SGT, in my humble opinion Shawn is a good guy with many good interviews and articles.

Between Zerohedge and SGT I pretty much get what I need in the financial realm.Gold seek radio Chris is pretty cool too.

Just info for you.

I have limited time ,so these people help me, covering much knowledge fast.....Best part they or their guests are usually right without hype.

Thanks to all and good day

Bury Barrick

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:47 | 3327698 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

Hi Shawn.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:39 | 3327681 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

Ah, yes, I remember those show hearings with GATA to testify and GATA had their microphone turned off, unexplicably. How Jeff? defined physical gold as being 100x it's base in an Orwellian logic.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:56 | 3328010 knukles
knukles's picture

Another mysterious glitch of a coincidence. 

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:41 | 3327683 goldbear1974
goldbear1974's picture

Confusious say weekly rice chart very similar to weekly gold chart.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:43 | 3327686 casaananda
casaananda's picture

Gensler, an arrogant little prick who studied at Yale. I went to Yale, too, and I can tell you there were lots of assholes like him there.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:43 | 3327689 cabtrom
cabtrom's picture

Just a hypothetical but if gold or silver all of a sudden was ooooh let's say silver/$150. Gold $3500. Who'd give a shit? The sheep don't eat silver or gold they eat whatever their EBT card will buy them. I just don't think it matters anymore. Admit it, we are slaves.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 17:50 | 3327701 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

yep, they will discuss it all right and promptly fill a bucket to overflowing with goat shit...

doesn't the cftc have better things to do - such as speeding up their internet connections for porn downloads? or am i confusing them with sec?

gensler will be phsyically maimed - if not killed - if he takes any actions on these "discussions" (for how to bury the topic).....banksters from tbtf banks have previously shoved him against walls threatening him not to do a thing....i am sure that gensler will repeat his previous life preserving actions....

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:05 | 3327733 aka Gil
aka Gil's picture

The .gov alphabet soup financial regulatory bureaucrats are owned. Remember how long Harry Markopolos had to sweat it out after gift-wrapping the Madoff fraud case and presenting it to the SEC, twice? It took a financial crisis to finally blow up Madoff, never lifted a finger. They won't lift a fucking finger for gold or silver either.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:05 | 3327737 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

why would anybody complain of low gold prices and why accumulation should be limited only to

those who have direct and constant access to money created out of thin electrons, prefer to quietly accumulate gold, physical gold not its paper manifestations

is beyond me.  we all can participate in accumulation of bullion at today's low prices

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:05 | 3327739 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

I always wonder what the laugh of the day will be. Today it is a tie between the CFTC and the local police where I tried to explain what forgery and fraud is in a foreclosure complaint. I have come to the conculsion, like many, that bureaucrats are....idiots on purpose so they can pretend they do not understand the problem so they don't have to do anything about it! CFTC and police dealing with white collar crime...both clueless to a fault. What problem? It is almost as good as denail and counter accuse. Try that next time someone makes a statement against you...for anything.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:10 | 3327747 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Good to see the CFTC at least has a secretary.  Fuck sakes.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:15 | 3327759 little buddy bu...
little buddy buys the dips's picture

...hmmm....this sounds familiar....not the situation, but the wording...


ahh, NOW i understand...


they know it. we know it. (known knowns)


they know we know. we know they know we know. but there are known unknowns..........


and so on.


FIXING. a known known. 

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 18:45 | 3327811 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

"The prices also help determine the value of derivatives tied to the metals."

Somehow me tinks dis is important.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 08:27 | 3329127 Acidtest Dummy
Acidtest Dummy's picture

"Derivatives tied to the metals," those known as GLD and SLV for instance.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:00 | 3327848 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture


Them RedShields been fixing the price for some time now.....

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:01 | 3327854 jballz
jballz's picture


The London Fix?




I don't see how that could happen.


I thought it was just a handful of guys who decide what the price of gold is going to be every day.

How could you manipulate that?

What next? Libor fixing?

Paranoid bitchez...

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:11 | 3327874 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

If Bart Chilton is coming to London he should really get a haircut first. No seriously. Not sure what people will make of it. He may end up being mistaken for a WWF reconnaissance scout....

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:41 | 3327959 Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

The hair doesn't bother me. It's the fact that Bart is smooth in the front like a Ken Doll that is irritating.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:52 | 3328467 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

He will fit right in w/ Boris Johnson...

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:16 | 3327893 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

Terry Smeeton in the Bank of England used to manipulate the Gold Fix all the time using the EEA account. If the price looked to be going up to much he'd offer supply through Rothschilds, then whatever was sold he'd buy it back later at a profit when the price had calmed down. It was official policy. Oliver Page monitored the P&L. Then they'd all go for a nice drink together. Horray! And do some bird watching....

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:23 | 3327896 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin&#039;'s picture

A little O.T. , but



Can anyone offer any insight into what % of each size silver bars or rounds that one should keep? I'll not buy any over 10 ounces. I'd like to keep it to tens fives and ones, maybe some pre 64 dimes and quarters.



I had started with tens (before the unfortunate marine calamity I was involved with)..........................




What % would you allocate to each size and why. Obviously if (and when) silver coins/bullion are used for trade, you'll want to have an assortment.




I can certainly see the value of holding some gold, but the Gold Silver ratio is too high for me to buy gold now. 

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:21 | 3327903 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

I am tired of reading about it, I think now would be a good time to start arresting people. 

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:22 | 3327904 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin&#039;'s picture

John Corzine is still a free man. Good luck with that.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:46 | 3327978 Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

It's not his fault that a $Billion in segregated accounts 'vaporized' under his watch. It was like spontaneous combustion, who could have known.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:56 | 3328014 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Yes, and J.P. Morgan Chase somehow received the money that isn't there.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:33 | 3327931 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Investigate London.  Naturally,  what a simple solution!    The CFTC has no jurisdiction,  perfect.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:58 | 3328022 knukles
knukles's picture

Nor do the English.
It's the City FFS!

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:55 | 3328004 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

The J.P. Morgue will not allow investigation.

This is an announcement of an inquiry about a possible investigation that will not occur.

Press conference, claims that something was investigated with no specifics and that nothing was found.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 20:10 | 3328054 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

It almost smells like a rouse to keep all the tinfoil hat trouble makers here distracted from the fact they are hiding all the stock market manipulation going on in HTF trades by the big boys like JPM and GS.

We know how the CTFC responds when someone calls out the manipulation using their data sets. They do what all good regulators do in the new normal. They blame the people who call out manipulation and do things like the following, rather than investigate HFT manipulating the markets, the regulator is investigating academic access to their audit level data-set.

Original ZH article here


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 20:44 | 3328150 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture








Wed, 03/13/2013 - 21:05 | 3328191 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

If you think London PM prices are manipulated, then you would have to believe that it was possible to manipulate Libor rates. That's impossible - right?

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 21:58 | 3328299 moonstears
moonstears's picture

"No formal investigation has been opened, the people said. The CFTC is examining various aspects of the so-called price fixings, including whether they are sufficiently transparent, they said."

BwaaaaHaaaHaaa! Friday humor on ZH? On a Wed??

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:06 | 3328331 paint it red ca...
paint it red call it hell's picture

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, the CFTC is doing WHAT?????? hilarious

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:42 | 3328436 papaclop
papaclop's picture

The CFTC can go to hell. They are worthless.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:52 | 3328470 Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

"sales from mining companies to refineries"

can anyone here elaborate on this or share a link?
Sure the fixers can issue edicts... But how do the miners stay in business?

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:13 | 3328533 MrBoompi
MrBoompi's picture

"You can trust us. We promise. Cross our hearts and hope to die"

Sincerely, HSBC

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 01:22 | 3328789 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

Give London some bitcoins to play with.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 02:40 | 3328847 luckylongshot
luckylongshot's picture

If you look at Vitali Glattfelder and Battiston (2011) you will see a single super entity owns and earns 80% of the world's wealth. This makes the idea that any market is free a joke. We live in a world where a Rothschild zionist controlled monopoly decides the prices, not in a free market.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 08:49 | 3329166 Acidtest Dummy
Acidtest Dummy's picture

What good is a free market to a coca grower in Peru? A poppy grower in Afghanistan? Or a cannabis gardener anywhere? Everyone loves price supports. Farm subsidies _are_ the EBT. The black market is the agency of unintended consequences. All Crime Begins With Politicians. The United States' Constitution was meant to PREVENT the freeing of slaves, and its failure is not inevitable.


Thu, 03/14/2013 - 05:11 | 3328962 resurger
resurger's picture

Where is the Fuck the CFTC post

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 05:56 | 3328985 torak
torak's picture

Who is investigating the CFTC?

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 06:40 | 3329013 f16hoser
f16hoser's picture
CFTC Investigating..........OXIMORON
Thu, 03/14/2013 - 09:19 | 3329220 Acidtest Dummy
Acidtest Dummy's picture

Exposing manipulation in the _western_ precious metals price setting mechanism would be politcally delicate. Should the sheeple become disillusioned about the transfer of wealth the precarious nature of state control might become evident. No government agency will EVER participate in its own disolution and that is what an investigation would mean; can you imagine the CFTC marching themselves into prison?

     When I point at the obvious, my finger obscures it.


Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!