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Guest Post: What Will Become Of Chavez's Gold Hoard?

Tyler Durden's picture


Authored by Peter Christian Hall, originally posted at Reuters,

In August 2011, while undergoing cancer treatments that ultimately failed him, Venezuela’s President Hugo Chávez began withdrawing 160 tons of gold from U.S., European and Canadian banks. “It’s coming to the place it never should have left. ... The vaults of the central bank of Venezuela, not the bank of London or the bank of the United States. It’s our gold,” he said on national television as crowds cheered armored trucks carrying an initial bullion shipment to the central bank.

While Chávez suggested the gold repatriation might forestall a Libya-style seizure of Venezuela’s assets by Western powers he had antagonized, IHS Global Insight analyst Diego Moya-Ocampos told Reuters it might stymie potential claims by foreign corporations seeking compensation for nationalizations they had endured. Central Bank of Venezuela President Nelson Merentes said it was “an act of financial prudence and sovereignty” intended to guard against problems in the international markets.

The shipments, conducted by air after much talk of alternate delivery modes, concluded five months later in a celebratory caravan. (Germany’s doing it, too: Berlin has ordered repatriation of 674 metric tons of gold, worth $34 billion, from Paris and New York.)

The Caracas hoard would today be valued at around $9 billion, were it not for the fact that Venezuela has been selling it — about $550 million worth in the first eight months of 2012, according to the International Monetary Fund. Did further sales follow over the past six months, with proceeds partly paying for the public largesse that helped fuel Chávez’s victorious up-from-the-sickbed presidential run?

Hint: Even with the additional cash from gold sales, Venezuela’s foreign exchange reserves hit a five-year low in September, three weeks before Chávez won a narrower-than-customary victory over Henrique Capriles, who will represent the opposition in a presidential election to be held on April 14.

Campaigning to hold the presidency for the Bolivarian Revolution will be Chávez’s designated successor, Nicolás Maduro, a former foreign minister, National Assembly speaker, union leader and bus driver who marched to free Chávez after the visionary army major’s attempted coup put him in jail for two years. A prominent target of Chávez’s rebellion in 1992 was Miraflores Palace, the executive office complex at which he later lived and where Maduro now works.

Several blocks east of Miraflores Palace on Caracas’s broad Avenida Urbaneta stands the 26-story Central Bank of Venezuela, whose vaults are said to contain what remains of the repatriated gold.

At 50, Maduro has much to worry about. In October, challenger Capriles won 44 percent of the ballots against Chávez, then behaved gracefully in defeat. Capriles will be supported by the elements that staged a nearly successful coup against Chávez in 2002, details of which are still disputed. At the time, the U.S. blamed Chávez for the uproar, and documents later surfaced to show that the George W. Bush administration anticipated Chávez’s ouster. (A remarkable and controversial movie, The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, aka Chávez: Inside the Coup, was shot by an Irish film crew that documented the ins and outs of Chávez’s dramatic comeback; it can be viewed via YouTube.)

As Venezuelans look ahead, they are well armed. Global Firepower, a website that assesses the world’s militaries, ranks the country No. 40 in strength, behind only much larger Brazil and Mexico among Latin American nations. On the ground, Venezuela endures a harrowing crime rate. With one-fourth of Mexico’s population — and no formal cartels waging wars — the nation reported 161 percent as many murders as Mexico did in 2011. Reported abductions for money increased twentyfold from 1999 to 2011 (though many kidnappings are resolved privately, leaving no statistics). After 45 years in Caracas, Norway closed its embassy in 2012, preferring to operate from Bogota.

No one seems to know how or why violence is so endemic. For all the complaints about falling oil production and capital flight, Venezuela’s quality of life improved at the third-fastest rate in the world during the second half of Chávez’s presidency. Income inequality fell markedly and citizens expressed considerable satisfaction with life there.

Still, the country suffers towering levels of venality. In 2012, Transparency International’s global corruption index (see its map) rated Venezuela Latin America’s most corrupt nation. It ranked as the ninth-most-corrupt country in the world, trailing Iraq in a four-way tie with Burundi, Chad and Haiti.

Thus, there is something less than $8.5 billion in untraceable gold bullion stashed in an extremely politicized city that’s simmering with grudges and dreams. Should strife erupt in Caracas, thousands would inevitably covet a plentiful supply of metal that’s as liquid as can be when it comes to transactions. Physical gold is modestly short of priceless to a criminal. What mala gente or dissident generals wouldn’t want some of Chávez’s rich legacy?

So far, Chávez’s unusual choice to keep so much of his country’s foreign reserves in gold has paid well: Paper profits from the steep rise in the metal’s price surely outweigh proceeds from his pre-election bullion sale. But his demise leaves a glowing bomb buried underneath a tense society. It will take leadership and luck to keep the benefits of Venezuela’s bullion flowing peacefully and productively.


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Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:07 | 3328333 kito
kito's picture


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:18 | 3328359 Orly
Orly's picture

Maybe he's sick and tired of having his boards used as a garbage dump.

Maybe all the "venting" posters do here has no place in civilised society.

Maybe he doesn't want to hear perverted and disgusting rants from people getting their rocks off saying things they'd never say to their mother and certainly have absolutely nothing to do with the foundation of this site, which is economics and finance.

Maybe he's fed up with vulgarity, disrespect and mean-spiritedness.

Maybe a lot of posters abuse the privilege of being able to talk openly and this is a gentle reminder that all of that can be taken away without an okay from kito.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:20 | 3328365 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture either are or you are not....i am man enough to handle all words, how about you?

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:33 | 3328400 true brain
true brain's picture

The first hint of censorship is the death of ZH. ZH is nothing without its readers and commenters. Some of the commenters here are the most insightful, analytical people I have read anywhere. They point out things, sometimes in irreverent ways, all right in sometimes racist, and offensive ways, but I would never think of these points without them. They truly open up my mind to different perspectives, thoughts, pov. etc. I can't say enough about the collective intelligence of this community. This is what a free community is like; no holds bar, all comments welcomed, no matter how hurtful. If you begin to censor, you just kill yourself. We're going drop off , one by one. ZH is dead. Your choice

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:52 | 3328466 Orly
Orly's picture

It's half-dead already.  Lots and lots of people would post far more often and give far more valuable insight than you can imagine, except thay don't want to expose themselves to racist, offensive and illiterate comments.

A free community, you say?  Without policemen?  No thanks.

It is always the lowest common denominator and the loudest and most vulgar that win.  There was some study done about that in like the madness of crowds or somewhere.  It said the crowd will devolve to the lowest common denominator unless there are policies and tools to stop it.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:59 | 3328499 true brain
true brain's picture

Please post on nytimes. ZH is not for you.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:02 | 3328507 Orly
Orly's picture

I'll keep that in mind.


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:16 | 3328540 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

ZH is not half dead. The market is totally dead. It's a corpse. Sitting here and comparing and contrasting investment philosophies has gone out the window along with fundamentals and any other actual means of analysis. That pretty much leaves us trying to discuss other topics of interest and sometimes ends with us flinging feces out of boredom. It's not our fault. They killed the market. This is just another byproduct of central planning. 

this comment is Brought to you by Carl's Jr. Fuck you, I'm eating.


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:19 | 3328548 Orly
Orly's picture

Hadn't looked at it that way, fonz.  You may be right about that.

Five Guys rocks!

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:23 | 3328554 flacon
flacon's picture


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:55 | 3328620 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

RE: Chavez's Gold...


How do we really know for sure he even got it? Anyone see any pics of it?

Where's Gaddafi's fuckin Gold? Where's the Fort knox Gold?


Where is anything for real for fuck sakes?

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:05 | 3328642 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

sorry blotto this thread has been hijacked to discuss far more serious concerns. Gold schmold.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:13 | 3328662 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Gaddafi's gold is/was Chavez's gold. But in the long run, I'm guessing it is all the LBE's gold.*

* Unless it is your gold safely deposited in a deep body of water.



Thu, 03/14/2013 - 01:20 | 3328784 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Funny how statesmen who tell the US/Fed to 'fornicate itself' and who say that they are going to sell their Crisco in non-USD currencies (Euro) or in gold, that they all end up being "really bad candidates for life insurance"?  And isn't it funny how their much poo-pooed "barbaric relic" then just pulls a Houdini and goes.. 'poof'? 

What a crazy coincidence that the DOD/ex-DOD and CIA/ex-CIA boys always appear after these statesmen die and the gold disappears.  To stabilize the region -- for the CB's?  /sarc

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 07:03 | 3329031 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 06:45 | 3329016 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"A free community, you say?  Without policemen?  No thanks."

Then leave.  Post at your nearest MSM newspaper.  Very secure.  Virtual Gitmos. Be gone.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:20 | 3328549 true brain
true brain's picture

But seriously, what we are discussing is the slippery slope. how much is enough. well , for me when it comes to words and discussion, there can be no limit. I'm not physically hurting anyone with words. It's not like I'm driving a car here. THe moment you put limit, then who gets to decide. The point is if there is moderation then a lot of people will not trust that forum. For example, nytimes will only allow things they want on-pro establishment etc. I would never even waste time reading the comments there. I want to know every angles; therefore, I'll take the nonsense, the funny, the obscene, along with the wisdom, because sometimes there is wisdom in the nonsense, the funny, and the obscene.

Just of think of Million Dollar Bonus. He is different , funny and wise in a way.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:02 | 3328506 akak
akak's picture

Actually (and perhaps shockingly), I totally agree with Orly here.  I  have seen forum after forum mostly or even entirely destroyed by the complete lack of any kind of moderation.  I was a member of one PM-related forum in particular (and there are probably at least one or two former members of it reading this right now) that was essentially run into the ground by one single, persistent, and highly dedicated troll, combined with the site owner's complete unwillingness to deal with the problem until almost all the former members had been run off.

On the other hand, I have also been a member of more than one online forum (Kitco, cough cough) that was reduced to a shadow of the robust forum for discussion and debate that it had formerly been by overzealous, thin-skinned and outright intolerant "moderators" (ynot2k, you hypocritical and power-hungry bastard, I am looking at you).  So there is a fine line between too much oversight and too little.

For the most part, ZH has seemed to me to walk that line, if perhaps erring slightly on the "too little moderation" side.  Until today, that is.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:04 | 3328511 Orly
Orly's picture

Well Tyler can go all Karl Denninger on your ass any time he wants...

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:12 | 3328528 akak
akak's picture

I was appalled that I forgot to mention the ol' MarketTickerGulag, er, MarketTickerForum of Denninger's as an example (perhaps the quintessential example) of a rigidly controlled, overmoderated forum in my second paragraph above. 

"You will discuss that vile metal gold HERE and ONLY here!  Do it anywhere else in my forum and I BAN YOU!"



Oh, by the way, speaking of Denninger and gold:

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 02:41 | 3328848 magpie
magpie's picture

Much ado about nothing...compared to 80% of the bizarre slander on the Pope thread, i must have not failed on the content or delivery part, most likely only trolled the wrong person. And it gives me a welcome excuse for a vacation from the internets.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:53 | 3328616 sgorem
sgorem's picture

zh is not called the fight club for nothing orly. patience and intellect can always subdue vulgarity and arrogance. i use whatever it takes to get my point across, sometimes it's obnoxious, sometimes, hopefully, it's humorous and contains some wit. i still believe in free speech, and ZERO HEDGE sets a precedent for that privilege. we are NOT politically correct here, and it's a melting pot of ideas, beliefs, problems, and solutions that bring us all together. i guess i can throw my idea of a First Annual Zero Hedge Bar-b-Que and Beer Bust and Covention/ Seminar in the Washington Mall grounds out the window NOW. BYO? plus free tee shirts and catering by Hooters were the order of the day, but with all THIS dissension, i'm afraid we'd just get busted.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:31 | 3328709 knukles
knukles's picture

Fight Club is an allegory of the individual coming to peace with himself, with his alter ego. 

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:03 | 3328638 H E D G E H O G
H E D G E H O G's picture

Orly, have read your post and have re-directed it to the LongSoupLine for the appropriate response. will forward asap. thanks for your patience.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:38 | 3328718 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Orly: "It's half-dead already.  Lots and lots of people would post far more often and give far more valuable insight than you can imagine, except they don't want to expose themselves to racist, offensive and illiterate comments."

Another +69 up arrows for Orly!

As a paying customer, I think that the ZH gene-pool is getting 'diluted' in its blogs.  It would be nice and less embarrassing to refer this site to smart & worldly people (with means), but the trailer-trash talk IS getting out of hand.  There is NO excuse for it.  Such comments mask the low-IQ of its authors, manifests their emotional immaturity, and compensates for their personal insecurities.  These people would be better suited for the Jerry Springer show.

I wonder how many use it as a public latrine, and how many actually use/pay for the services advertized.  Only the Tylers know for sure, I guess.  But, as a growth model, w/o some people getting censor-whacked occasionally (in the hopes of "upping their game"), I can NOT imagine how this site has growth potential beyond the trailer trash crowd.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 10:08 | 3329313 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Board trolling is a common way to do the equivalent of character assasination of the board itself. I think you'd find out the most offensive and outright racist ones (they are the ones with no sense of context, humor or subtleness and don't come off as just plain jane bat shit crazy) are not speaking their own personal opinions but are doing "gods" work among other groups. You can hope the board members combat it but when they don't it, it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of deal when the admins have to step in and deal with it.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 10:21 | 3329354 fuu
fuu's picture

One of the better board trolling techniques is the concern troll. As in, "I am concerned this website will fail completely if people do not adhere to my version of acceptable speech."

A couple of the people bitching about being censored have hounded other posters, spewed forth vile filth, and encouraged spamming to get people banned.

Then they brag about it.

I find it highly entertaining that they are now whinging about their crap being deleted.


Thu, 03/14/2013 - 10:52 | 3329459 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Like I said damned if you do, damned if you don't when you are the admin.

All the personality types of trolls have been largely documented years ago.

A trip down the memory hole

Flame Warriors. Know the combatants


One of the combatants


Although sometimes a male, Crybaby is usually a female, and often a close ally of Innocence Abused. When teased or attacked Crybaby will pitch a loud public temper tantrum, holding her breath and kicking her feet. If that defense fails she will run to Nanny for comfort.


Thu, 03/14/2013 - 11:47 | 3329642 fuu
fuu's picture

Ah back when usenet was the internet. Good times.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:22 | 3328366 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

The pope is a penus and his outfit looks like it has a reservoir tip.


Edit:  well, there appears to be no censorship here.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:23 | 3328369 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

funny shit-i mean the fact that you are too stupid to spell penis correctly

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:25 | 3328375 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

tried to correct it in an edit but got "denied access".

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:29 | 3328387 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:46 | 3328605 ACP
ACP's picture

An edit appears to not lock the database until a save, so a saved response before an edit-save will freeze the record.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:24 | 3328372 kito
kito's picture

that would be wonderful orly....we can have a discussion board that is a utopia.....just like the government of the united states is striving for...........censor and limit EVERYTHING so that we can all be happy little compliant serfs.......................great idea orly!!!! and it certainly fits right in with tylers mindset...............sanitize everthing!!!!!! great......i look forward to kindler gentler ZH.....................................lets test this:









am i still here?????



Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:28 | 3328385 Orly
Orly's picture

News Flash:


It's not your site, idiot!

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:36 | 3328412 kito
kito's picture

never said it was orly...........but as participants who may hate each other because we are jewish or catholic or black or a keynesian fool, we ALL STILL EXPECT THE RIGHT TO DEGRADE EACH OTHER IN AN OPEN AND OBVIOUS MANNER BECAUSE WE ARE SICK OF THE CENTRALIZED CONTROL THAT LIES OUTSIDE THE ZH FORUM....



Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:48 | 3328451 Orly
Orly's picture

Sure.  Tell you what...get up and running and I'll be the first one there to tell my best Mickey Mouse jokes, okay?

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:51 | 3328464 kito
kito's picture

oh orly, youre so cute........................

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:57 | 3328487 Orly
Orly's picture

Did you hear Mickey Mouse was getting a divorce?

Judge says, "Now Mickey you have to have some kind of evidence that Minnie is crazy."

Mickey said, "Oh, no, judge.  I never said Minnie was crazy.  I said she was fucking Goofy!"

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:57 | 3328490 Orly
Orly's picture

That one's gratis.


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:18 | 3328546 TheProphet
TheProphet's picture

I have always wondered if lesbians get PMS. Thanks Orly for clearing that up ;-)


Thu, 03/14/2013 - 08:38 | 3329149 deKevelioc
deKevelioc's picture

Has the camel's nose slipped under the zerohedge tent?  Hope not.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:50 | 3328611 ACP
ACP's picture

@kito: Can you give an example of an anti-Pope, anti-Catholic statement that was censored? Provided in the context of a quote or example, I doubt they would be censored again, if they were originally.


Thu, 03/14/2013 - 08:07 | 3329095 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Akak says, "I pee on the pope", and then I says, "in his mouth?"

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 08:10 | 3329098 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

and the value of both comments is...?

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 08:24 | 3329114 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

That said, never had a bigger laugh than yesterday.  Especially after a particular otto/kito exchange that proved a point.  Unfortunately otto took the moral high ground which as we all know ties up your hands unnecessarily.  that said I hope I haven't broken any eggshells / mentalities with my comments which were told in the vain of a jester, not a bully.  I insult the pope's office to prove my belief that no man is infallible by his own decree or that of others.  To me it is the same sickness as fiat.  "This has value because I say so" is a terribly infectious disease.  It's no far cry from "I am holy because I said goony googooles."

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 10:09 | 3329324 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Sounds like someone is a little butt hurt. Get over yourself and move on.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:29 | 3328379 akak
akak's picture

Orly raises some potentially valid points.

However, I think even she would agree that the manner in which (at least) that one thread today was so heavily censored was utterly unprecedented in ZH history, and left many if not most posters here confused and upset. 

If some kind of posting guidelines are being instituted here, it would be helpful to all involved if they were made publicly known.  Deleting comments, and banning posters, with no guidelines and no explanations hardly makes for a healthy interactive environment.


PS: Yes, obviously, my ban was lifted.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:30 | 3328392 kito
kito's picture

akak, please define "potentially valid"............

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:31 | 3328396 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

you're "confused and upset" by this?  maybe it's time to get back on your meds.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:32 | 3328399 Orly
Orly's picture

akak, the black kettle of the bunch?  I tried to tell you so many times, dude.

You think you're hurting my feelings?  Think I really give a flying fuck what you think?  I don't.  You got that right.

I said over and over and over, you're going to ruin it for everybody.

ZeroHedge does not belong to you.  It belongs to everyone.  If you want to make yourself a spoiler, do it on CNBC...oh, wait!  That's right YOU CAN'T.

Now ask yourself why that is...

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:43 | 3328410 akak
akak's picture

Was there a point to that incoherent little rant?

I don't recall discussing, mentioning, or even tangentially referring to your "feelings" in any manner whatsoever.

And oh yeah, I am the most abusive ZH poster, ever --- a complete bully and a total troll!  I have single-handedly RUINED ZeroHedge for everyone!

Get over yourself.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:45 | 3328443 Orly
Orly's picture

Are you Egyptian, akak?  Talk about "intellectual dishonesty."

Just remember, I tried to tell you.  Let this be a warning shot- not from me but from the powers that be here on the site.  All of this freedom we enjoy so much and draws us here day after day can be yanked without so much as a written warning.

Just be decent.  That's all.  You're really a funny type-person but a lot of times you slip over the edge and that's not cool.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:48 | 3328450 akak
akak's picture

No, sorry, not Egyptian.

But I do often fantasize about having sex with mummy.

(Think I picked it up from some blind Greek fellow back in the day.)

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:53 | 3328471 kito
kito's picture

All of this freedom we enjoy so much and draws us here day after day can be yanked without so much as a written warning....


funny orly, i couldve sworn that said threat to freedom was the very reason we were drawn to this site...............

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:02 | 3328503 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I put ZH in a group that includes Ron Paul and George Carlin etc. It is the biggest compliment I could pay it. Both those people would fight for someone's right to say what they want. I believe the regular posters on her would do a better job than ZH or any "policeman" could do to weed them out. So I sincerely hope it does not go in that direction. If a site that is founded on economics and finance is going to venture out into religion etc. then this comes with it. 

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:07 | 3328515 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture



ZH is the ONLY place I know of where you can just totally say what's on your mind... I know of no civilization or culture which can ever exceed that priviledge...


'Society' IS NOT people agreeing with each other over tea...  

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 08:10 | 3329097 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Tyler queefed because the pope told him to.  Ergo, Tyler may be a Jesuit.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 02:06 | 3328829 BailoutBandit
BailoutBandit's picture

Most abusive troll award was long ago won by trav. And he was trying to get censored. Blacks and silver investors are fair game on this site. Apparently catholicism is not, but that is hearsay.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:49 | 3328458 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

"youre going to ruin it for everybody

LOL. Coming from you? You have said some truly awful things around here. You're a joke Orly. Grow up, this is Fight Club. Cheeky Bastard and some others would have run you out of here on the rails a few years ago.


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:12 | 3328531 Orly
Orly's picture

Wrong.  I have had many conversations with Cheeky Bastard and about the only negative thing he ever said to me was, "Who is letting all these kids in here?"  It crushed me at the time, of course, but there was nothing vulgar about it.

What have I said that was ad hominem, hateful, vulgar, or disgusting? Go on, dredge through the archives.  I'll wait.

You may not like the fact that I pay a buck a pound for chicken breasts but, somehow, I don't equate that with calling the Pope a child-molesting pervert.

As a matter of fact, he seems like a very nice man.


Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:19 | 3328679 chump666
chump666's picture


I am doing the green up arrows for you, but hell, some suckers are hitting you with a ton of reds.  Hang in there.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 01:17 | 3328785 Orly
Orly's picture

Oh, I get it all the time, Chump.  Kind of like spraying for bugs.  They do a little dance...

Anyway, what's going on with the Euro?  Being held below 1.3.  Do you think it sticks this time?

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 01:43 | 3328804 chump666
chump666's picture


The EUR?  You didn't commend me on my EUR/JPY 1.24 beckons trade? Remember '5day HFT moving averages, breaks etc."  The EUR could be ready to breakout below 1.30 supports, it has to be said that central banks are good for nothing money printers that cannot stop market forces.  You are seeing that in FX and China/Asia and some S.A markets.  Ok, i think if the EUR breaks we get our correction, 'cause the ping pong trade is off the FED (NY) keeping the ECB bid (EUR) with the swap lines to keep Wall Street happy on PIIGS bond spreads etc.




Thu, 03/14/2013 - 02:01 | 3328823 Orly
Orly's picture

I don't know.  I don't do futures, so I thought the equivalent would be EURJPY to 124.00, which hasn't happened yet.  But my commendations on your trade.

The Euro is trading well below 1.3 and there doesn't seem to be any conviction to try to bring it back.  It's just hanging there like a wet noodle, as if everyone is waiting on ECB to turn on the spigot.  (Maybe they just did?  Euro has to gain fifty pips to get back...)

Spanish and Italian bonds have been doing better lately but didn't Italy kind of blow up yesterday?  You think they're ready?  It is getting hard to ramp this thing every day with zero retail coming into the markets at all. They may have finally got what they were waiting for.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 04:01 | 3328901 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I was referring to your continuing bashing and constant ridicule of gold and silver holders here at ZH.

Project much Orly?

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 03:46 | 3328887 I only kill chi...
I only kill chickens and wheat's picture

Maybe it just who ever was on "duty" watching the comments got freaked out, and not an indication of general ZH shit.

ps I hadn't read the pope article or comments, don't' care.

I only Kill Chickens and Wheat, really.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 04:16 | 3328910 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture


I appreciate the effort but don't let the juveniles get to you.  They are like so many other tools you meet in this world, throwing obsenities becuase they have nothing constructive to contribute but still need to hear their blathering voice.

You will never get them to recognize what they are and regrettably they will never, ever figure it out for themselves.  Save your own sanity and let them wallow in their s%^&.

Regrettably, this site is moving downhill because honest inteligent discourse has devolved into disgusting comments and...well, bitchez :(

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:08 | 3328525 defender
defender's picture

akak, Tyler has said several times that anyone who is stating a "credible threat of violence" will be banned or deleted.  I think it has to do with the laws that are in effect in the US require reporting such things, and Tyler doesn't seem to like "the man" very much.  I am not sure if you were around the last time that people were talking about killing someone (I think it was Madoff), but there were posts deleted then as well.

Tack on the catholic churches fond use of lawyers, and you can see why resonable limits should be in place. 

Luckily, "resonable" has been defined as "not trying to physically stab someone" on the site, so we can mostly run rampant.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:22 | 3328553 akak
akak's picture


Tack on the catholic churches fond use of lawyers, and you can see why resonable limits should be in place.

I guess that's why my "pope-on-a-rope" comment got deleted.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:36 | 3328582 defender
defender's picture

Sadly that statement is likely to be true.  I have been getting the feeling for a while now that the catholic church won't be able to keep the scandals under wraps any more.  Sad to see a group choose hypocrisy over good.  An example:

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 06:54 | 3329023 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

LOL.  The BBC?  Hello, Jimmy Savile and any number of Britain's "elite".


Thu, 03/14/2013 - 10:05 | 3329317 batushka
batushka's picture

That's because the "long march through the institutions" is almost complete. 

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:30 | 3328391 olto
olto's picture


Thanks for saying what needs to be said more often here.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:58 | 3328496 Pascal1967
Pascal1967's picture

Well said, Orly!

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:20 | 3328551 Tjeffson
Tjeffson's picture

I never comment here or even read them anymore but I can say that a lot of people ignore anything from ZH because of the idiotic comments that make the site look like its full of highschoolers trying out as many vulgar words as they can. I've had dozens of people tell me they don't even read ZH articles because of it.

I read the articles and leave. I have zero desire to read thru scores of moronic comments. With so many intelligent (at least they try to claim to be) people on here, you'd think they could act and speak like it.

Just a couple cents from a long time reader/lurker.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:29 | 3328565 akak
akak's picture

So there are actually people who would categorically refuse to read an article (no matter how pertinent or relevant), based solely on certain WORDS that are used in secondary COMMENTS (by third parties) that are unconnected to that article?  Really?

Wow!  I hope for their sakes that I never bump into any of those people --- they sound as delicate as 100 year-old lace.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:38 | 3328584 Tjeffson
Tjeffson's picture

I'll link an article ....they'll come read it and then see the comments. And that's about all it takes...they will go elsewhere to get the news where they don't have to see all the crude, bigoted, racist etc language.

It doesn't really bother me because I rarely even look at comments. But there are a lot of people that find that kind of behavior repugnant and childish.

On top of that, the comments just devolve into a pile of garbage so that anything of interest gets lost in the mess. Some moderation is useful just for that fact.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:47 | 3328607 akak
akak's picture

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you about the comments, but where is the logic in refusing to read an article based on words in comments that FOLLOW --- and are not a part of --- that article?  Honestly, I don't understand that kind of 'thinking' at all.

What is wrong with just reading the article, and moving on?  I do it all the time online, sometimes even here.  Are all those naughty words in those comments simply too irresistable to those timid and fragile souls?

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:12 | 3328661 Tjeffson
Tjeffson's picture

That I can't answer. It's just something I've seen a number of times already. Perhaps it's just the perception they get when they see people throwing racial slurs around and don't have anything else to actually say.

I was just giving a bit of perspective from outside the ZH bubble. Personally, I'd like to see ZH go mainstream and replace CNBS and lots of other worthless sites. But when you (not you personally) devolve into the slurs etc , it just puts off a lot of people...some that may actually have interesting things to add but refuse to step into that mess.

I think Orly is right about being a bit more civilized/respectful/polite/whatever would get more people posting comments and perhaps help get more people reading the articles and comments.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 04:25 | 3328922 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture


Simple logic might tell you that the visitors to the site will relate the discourse to the topic.  They might like the article and agree with the sentiment but when they find the community surrounding it repulsive they will chose to reconsider using the site and find themselves at one of those funny sites you like to make fun of.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 04:37 | 3328934 akak
akak's picture

Dude, with respect, there is no 'logic' in relating the discourse to the topic of an article at all.  NONE.  It is simply specious "guilt by association", if it is even that. 

Honestly, I read articles on MANY websites all the time, and I rarely bother to even look at the comments attached to them.  And even if I do read or glance at the comments, I do not blame any ignorance or rancor within them on the article itself.  It is simply crazy, if not outright insane, to do otherwise.

I cannot understand how anyone could see this issue otherwise.  I must admit to being dumbfounded by your suggestion that others would implicitly connect unrelated comments to the content of an article, and judge the article by those unrelated comments rather than on its own merits.  The only exception I could see to this would be if the author of the article himself were taking part in the discussion or comments connected to that article, but that is rarely the case.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 13:37 | 3330002 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

Yes...that is you many people do you think come here, read an article or two, look at the comments and decide.....'hmm, interesting but I will put them in the juvenile, racist, doomer, goldbug, crazy libertarian, etc..etc category" and chose to move on because it is not what they want to relate to.

Obviously the site cannot be all things to all people, but the population will self reinforce (read...push others out) based on the obnoxious setting that it is developing.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:57 | 3328630 defender
defender's picture

I would lean the other way on it being useful.  In fact, I would put the commentors viceral reaction to logic flaws and hypocrisy is one of the few things that have kept this site from devolving into just another "think of the children" echo chamber.  The people who stay here are the ones that can take having their veiws questioned without turning into a quivering pile of goo.  This allows the discussion to go much deeper than knee-jerk reef.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:20 | 3328682 Tjeffson
Tjeffson's picture

Questioning views is fine, throwing around racial slurs and crap like that is what drives commenters and even readers away.

Most of Kito's comments on this article are a perfect example. He's on some sort of rage against the Catholic Church when the article is about Hugo Chavez's gold.

And that's about I have to say. So it's back to just lurking for me.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:47 | 3328733 defender
defender's picture

I am saying that the best commentors on this site have always been beligerent.  That fact has kept this site relevent.  When the easily offended leave, the adults keep the conversation going and end up covering more ground. 

The worst thing that ever happened to the comment section, was the site becoming popular.  The more main stream the crowd became, the fewer topics were discussed.  Why?  Because it wasn't "proper to talk about that subject."  Even when "that subject" was the missing piece of the puzzle.

Enjoy your lurking, it is what I do most of the time as well.


Thu, 03/14/2013 - 01:47 | 3328815 chump666
chump666's picture

Actually the best commentators on ZH are the ones with a sense of humor, f*cking hilarious the stuff written in replies, sans the racists sh*t.  But I don't see much of that.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 13:40 | 3330014 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

Definitely your opinion....

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 03:09 | 3328864 olto
olto's picture


Thanks for this:

"On top of that, the comments just devolve into a pile of garbage so that anything of interest gets lost in the mess."

I think that this precisly the reason for the comments; they have turned this site into a trash dump---the "Dogpatch" of the web!

Too bad---a lot of of interesting folks are gone and a that remains are the Yokums an the Shmoos-----for younger readers:

"Dogpatch was "an average stone-age community nestled in a bleak valley, between two cheap and uninteresting hills somewhere." The inhabitants were mostly lazy hillbillies."

Thanks again                 Li'l Abner



Thu, 03/14/2013 - 03:11 | 3328865 olto
olto's picture


Thanks for this:

"On top of that, the comments just devolve into a pile of garbage so that anything of interest gets lost in the mess."

I think that this precisely the reason for the comments; they have turned this site into a trash dump---the "Dogpatch" of the web!

Too bad---a lot of of interesting folks are gone and a that remains are the Yokums an the Shmoos-----for younger readers:

"Dogpatch was "an average stone-age community nestled in a bleak valley, between two cheap and uninteresting hills somewhere." The inhabitants were mostly lazy hillbillies."

Thanks again                 Li'l Abner

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 03:51 | 3328893 I only kill chi...
I only kill chickens and wheat's picture

No, I tell my older relatives to read the articles and stay away from the comments, because the content is relevant to them, not the comments. They would be offended and think we're a bunch of nuts.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:44 | 3328596 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Akak you have obviously never been forced to take sensitivity/sexual harassment in services. Hara-kiri is less painful. Words are scary and dangerous and must be contained. I have to hang my head in shame because my sex is guilty of perpetuating this for the most part. Yes it's pervasive today. Maybe in Alaska you have escaped its claws.


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:50 | 3328613 akak
akak's picture

"Sexual Sensitivity" in Alaska consists of farting downwind instead of upwind, and letting her know "Damn, bitch, you look hot in chest waders!"

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:00 | 3328634 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Do you have a room to rent? I'll learn to handle the cold....Hmmmm, it was 77deg and sunny here today. That's how desperate I am! ;-)


Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:10 | 3328651 akak
akak's picture

Oh, and did I mention the mandatory 40 hour orientation course that all new Alaskan residents must take after moving here?  It is taught by Sarah Palin.  You must learn how to dress a moose (and that don't mean in a dinner gown!), drive a dog sled, gut and fillet a salmon, and collect an annual $1000 check from the state while decrying 'big government'.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:48 | 3328734 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Well Akak, sign me up! I can do all those things with one hand tied behind my back. Who would have thunk it....I'm Alaskan! I knew I didn't belong in Cali anymore. Kind of like when Steve Martin in the Jerk discovered the music meant for him. I just don't get the rhythm here!

Thanks for the laugh! You're posts always lift my spirits and I always look forward to read them. I'm honored to have your respect and friendship. Could we exchange emails? Sometimes I want to ask you some things but don't think it's appropriate to clog up the threads with such matters. I'll understand if you want to keep your anonymity, we all do need to be careful with that so no offense will be taken is you decline.


Thu, 03/14/2013 - 01:22 | 3328787 Orly
Orly's picture


What's going on here?

akak and MM sitting in a tree,



You can use the chat or send a PM.

Ooooh.  This is better than Days...

ZChat Instructions

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 02:57 | 3328855 akak
akak's picture

Now Orly, was that comment really necessary?

I've had the good grace to refrain from intruding into your little flirtations with Chump666, you may have noticed.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 08:22 | 3329113 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Interesting hypocritical response from someone who is trying to stop the schoolboy banter here. I will not respond in kind. Unfortunately the ZH chat does not work on my ipad so that's why I must make different arrangements, not that's any of your bees wax.


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:28 | 3328567 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Orly, you said it yourself you don't give a flying fuck what akak says and your feelings aren't hurt ( why do feelings matter so much today anyway?) so what does it matter what anyone says really? Where else can you make a rant from the gut, I mean truly unloading all the vileness of your soul without some censure? In today's world no where. Yes, it's true when I first came here I was a bit aghast about the language and some of the bile but, guess what, I got over it and I found some of the posters here who shocked me the most often had many good points to say. If people are "meanspirited" okay, so what? That person may have issues. If you have a problem with it just ignore it. You can't corral a typhoon only get out of its way and let it roll by. Every where today we must be politically correct, an image our boss,family or community wishes us to be. Here you can be yourself, as ugly as that is. There is a beauty in that. You haven't been sweetness and light yourself all the time. We don't need thought police. Also, we don't all own ZH. That is very presumptuous. The people who run this site and do with it as they see fit. We are just guests in someone's house.


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:40 | 3328589 Orly
Orly's picture

"We are just guests in someone's house."

Exactly right.  My point is not that I have been such a nice and charming person and just wish everthing would come up daisies all the time.  The idea behind what I say is that sometimes posters step way over the line into vile and personal attacks.

It has rubbed me the wrong way for a while to see people who used to have good ideas or contrarian ideas get shouted down and called names until they don't come back here any more.

Believe, the last thing I want to do is have everyone agree with me or have ZeroHedge devolve into a confirmation-bias site because I am here to learn as much as I can from as many people as I can before I kick.  That's my goal. Sometimes, I don't think I have much to offer, save a 4X pick or two (btw, looks like Euro is rolling over here big time.  Watch the European session for fallout.  Short EURUSD, long USDJPY...), but I'm not on about stabbing the Pope and other hateful things.

You would be surprised how far a little civility would go to get some seriously quality comments around here from people all over the world.  You can be funny or snarky and all that but it should be done in a way that has at its base a fundamental respect.

Maybe it's an old-school British thing.  You can get sliced to ribbons and never know it because of how it is said and how it is presented.


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:57 | 3328627 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I'm sorry Orly but if someone flees because of vile personal attacks then they are just cowardly. These are just words not bullets. Remember the sticks and stone saying? I had some EXTREMELY vile things said to me here.Yes they hurt. But guess what. I relaxed, took a few deep breaths, walked around the block and composed my thoughts. I never responded in anger. Funny thing was many people commented that they were amazed how I responded and couldn't believe how well I did under the circumstances. Which did help bolster my spirits and prepared me for the next go around. It's just about manning up and not allowing people to destroy you with words. If you can learn that, then imagine if someone in real life were to verbally assault you....time spent here has prepared you for that. Just my 2 cents.


Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:04 | 3328640 akak
akak's picture

You are a veritable fountain of wisdom and temperance, Miffed --- I wish we had (even) more like you here.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:07 | 3328648 Orly
Orly's picture

Please, you're missing my point entirely.  There are people who know a lot about markets, maybe have a unique inside perspective of things that they could possibly share with us...but they don't.

Those people don't want to waste their time "manning up" and soothing a bruised ego.  They have better things to do with their time because they are on top of the game.  They're not necessarily offended.  They just think it's stupid.

As I said, I am hardly bothered by what someone says about me.  I am only disheartened because there could have been words of enlightenment in the dialogue instead of some snarky attack that turns other people right off.

See up and down the thread.  There are people coming out of the shadows and saying that they would like to participate more but not in a third-grade classroom.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:32 | 3328711 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Orly, I never "what if". It is pointless. What if I happened to bump into Tyler 10 years ago and he gave me sage advise and now I'm not stuck with a worthless 401k and a life of debt slavery. What if I had met bill gates ( my mother was good friends with his aunt) and I was married to him and wouldnt give ZH the time of day while stroking my billions ( can't imagine a shittier life but I'd be rich!). What if a person with a unique insider perspective would come to ZH and enlighten us? Frankly if someone wishes to do so they will. Seems to me if a financial expert is dissuaded by a few words they probably don't have the cajones to handle serious financial issues. I didn't know the world of finance was so delicate. It seems to me they are under incredible pressures. I've been called a fucking bitch by a renouned orthopedic surgeon because I refused to do something micro biologically unsound. He almost got me fired but I stuck to my guns. I guess I'm made of sterner stuff. Please, I just don't understand how imposing ettiquette requirements will enhance the quality of posters?


Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:58 | 3328750 Orly
Orly's picture

"Sterner stuff...incredible pressures...imposing etiquette..."

Again, it is not about whether someone is tough enough to take language.  It is about whether they want to contribute their work when all they get is grunts and, "Gold, bitchez!" from the responses.

I would urge you to look at Marc to Market.  He comes out in the Contributors section most every morning, prolly really early your time.  He provides detailed analysis of the foreign exchange market that, if you had to pay for it would set you back a few quid.  Quite a few, in fact.

I can tell he gets frustrated with the quality of comments and questions he receives from his work.  He, like Bruce Krasting, is of the few who will respond to commenters but sometimes, I can see him just throwing up his hands and walking away.  His perspective is unique in that he heads up the 4X division of Brown Brothers, Harriman.  That's freak and huge.

He maybe gets six, eight comments a day on his posts.  But if he were to not post any more, that would be a tremendous loss to ZeroHedge,  It would make me angry to know he left because his valuable work was being ridiculed by people who know absolutely nothing about trading, much less trading in the foreign exchange.  Just a bunch of johnnies spouting off coz they think they sound cool trashing "fiat toilet paper."

We need to encourage other commenters who are also very knowlegable in 4X to go there and speak their minds.  But they're not going to do it as long as inane and vulgar comments rule the roost.

That's just one example.  There are many others.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 01:13 | 3328778 akak
akak's picture

Well, what is the solution then?

Do we need to go back to Captcha for every daily log-in?  (Maybe not a bad idea, at that.)

Perhaps a multi-part Captcha, including some rudiments of financial matters?

I can still remember my former lurking days here onZH, in late 2009, when the commentary on this site was generally so far above my head that I was inhibited from even registering here, and then even after I did register, from making any comments for the well-founded fear of sounding like an ignoramous.  It is in truth a different crowd here today, but I cannot say that that is entirely bad.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 01:27 | 3328793 Orly
Orly's picture

If I may say, it is set by example.  You carry a lot of weight here, ak, and you have posters looking up to


Thu, 03/14/2013 - 03:00 | 3328856 akak
akak's picture

I "carry a lot of weight here"? 

Honestly, I hardly think so.  But if I do, God have mercy on ZeroHedge.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 04:45 | 3328939 homme
homme's picture

Orly's right, man. But I think it's mostly about your avatar. I mean it just screams "I'm not skinny, bitchez! I'm big boned! Arrrgh!", or something. Anyhoo... I can relate to that.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 07:26 | 3329046 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

akak, don't know if this counts as "weight" but I do read what you write - when it's not about AnAnonymous, that's it

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 01:16 | 3328782 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Orly, my husband regularly reads Krasting and others for their knowledge and never posts ( he commented once to me just to tease me). He is here just for information and nothing more. People could "gold bitchez" all day long and he wouldn't notice or give a damn. So it's not just bad language but inane schoolboy humor that bothers you? how are you going to regulate that? Do people have to pass a " quality" test before joining and then renew yearly after going through a approval process? Seems like a daunting task to me. Seems to me the best approach is to ignore these things like you would a little kid clambering for your attention for the 100th time. Just set limits with your time and attention and when the immature fail to get what they want they will fade away. I'd love to continue this but I have a 400am alarm facing me and I don't want another embarrassing post from mr miffed so good night.


Thu, 03/14/2013 - 13:51 | 3330055 n8dawg84
n8dawg84's picture

This comment is not necessarily directed towards Orly, Akak, or anyone else.  I'm no one here on ZH, so my opinion doesn't mean much to anyone else but myself.  That being said, I've often had to sort through tons of bullshit in order to get to the comments that provide insight and perspective from posters who are more knowledgeable than myself.  On a site that doesn't (at least didn't) promote censorship, that comes with the territory.  THAT being said, I understand how people can be turned off from sharing information due to bullshit that's out there.  From what I've read, this is what lead Another to abandon speaking on some gold forums.  Sometimes people just get fed up from being exposed to so much smut.  Each person has their own tolerance level.  Im happy that I don't have to make the decision to regulate, or not.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:19 | 3328674 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Orly:  "Maybe he's sick and tired of having his boards used as a garbage dump."

+69 for Orly!

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 09:05 | 3329193 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

Orly says:  "lot of posters abuse the privilege of being able to talk openly"

Translated from feminist speak into plain english this means that the fairer sex !DEMANDS! the right to censor any speech by males writing on this blog that might dare to tickle her "i'm offended" nerve.  This means anything agressive, bluntly honest or overly masculine.  If her "i'm offended" nerve becomes blood engorged, expect to her write emails to Tyler(s), the EEO, and any estrogen laden diversity groups demanding that the offending party be silenced (gillotined).

Orly contributes some good posts but she clearly cannot rise above her hormone addled brain.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 09:24 | 3329212 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

LOL - made me laugh, +1 for un-PC

according to my pet theory this does not happen with one member of the fair sex in a male setting

the dynamics of what you talk about start only when "ze girlz" - plural - start to compare notes and build up some collective steam

then the demands for a reduction of male habits begin, and the so called "feminization" of the environment starts

I think it's built in - and in it's natural form it's reason is for children have an appropriate emotional environment

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 14:04 | 3330102 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

The comments on the insightful and informative articles ARE why I read Zerohedge. Lots of things in the comments that I agree with and some I don't, but usually a nugget of insightfulness uncovered there.

As for offensive?! What could be more offensive than reading the comments on some propaganda media screed that is all PC and "nice-nice" but pro-establishment, anti-white, government can't do wrong and needs to do more despite all the evidence to the contrary. Just offensive as hell, though the cognitive dissonance can be pretty funny. Anything relating to blacks is the best--cognitive dissonance to the third power.

I force myself to read those comments to keep a better gauge on how and what the sheeple and entitled think. It is painful but necessary. At Zerohedge I get informative and reasonably sane discussions that benefit my knowledge. Please don't censor ZeroHedge, keep the discussions, offensive or not, flowing.

Zerohedge is a breath of fresh, non-PC, air in a stale and PC world.                    hujel

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:22 | 3328362 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

whatever jew.if you want to see/hear/read a bunch of douchebags bag on the catholic church just tune into any MSM outlet.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:24 | 3328368 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I agree... There should be ZERO censorship of comments...


Now ~ Back to the thread topic...

What Will Become Of Chavez's Gold Hoard?

Answer: JEWS will steal it... as always... Carry on!

BTW ~ New pope is a jew [so you should be celebrating kito]...

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:28 | 3328374 kito
kito's picture

wait, francis.......tell us that the CHILD MOLESTING CATHOLIC CHURCH WILL STEAL IT...oh wait they cant...because they own it all already!!!!


am i still here??? censored?????

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:44 | 3328398 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

don't cry... or, if you're sad, you can always drown your sorrows with a shopping spree @ Jos A Bank tomorrow...


All kidding aside... I've been out of communication [OF ANYTHING] for about the last 36 hours... I seriously just found out aboutthe new pope less than 15 minutes ago ~ contemporary with my arrival at this keyboard... I haven't had time to fullydigest the news [nor did I see or read any of the comments that you seem to have referenced... I'm flying by the seat of my pants here]...

However ~ EXACTLY when I heard the news... My VERY FIRST reaction was "JESUIT = JEW"... I'm open to tussle [but I need to get up to speed a little]... 


kito ~ it's a wasted argument talking about 'child molesting' priests in the Catholic church because the same argument is well documented with rabbis as well... To argue that to any degree [in either direction] is a huge waste of time...

Instead ~ & THIS IS ONLY MY FIRST IMPRESSION... I actually had a discussion with my mother about a week ago on this [& here is all I said]... I said... The JESUITS are in control of the church heirarchy... LOOK THERE... So now they've elected this Jesuit [who was actuallyoff my radar screen]... The ANSWERS anyone needs to find is WHY is a JESUIT influenced character the new pope...

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:49 | 3328457 kito
kito's picture

oh agreed, the grand rabbis are sleezy as the leaders of the catholic church......organized religion is and has always been about social control........rules, laws and dogma to keep control over the flock..................the higher up in the religion, the further away from the spirit and true intent of the religion.....................

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:57 | 3328489 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I've stated many times before that RELIGION had zero to do with my 'jew' criticisms... I've always focused in on the behavioral patterns of THE FLOCK...


& I will say this [about that]... A good deal of so called 'Christians' [or 'Catholics'] are FOS as well... There does not exist a cubbyhole on this planet that there are not FOS people [who adhere to this or that, or represent themselves as this or that, IN THE NAME OF this or that]...

My main problem... WHICH I'VE STATED MANY TIMES... Is the preponderance of people who call themselves JEWS, in banking... If they were not THUSLY over-represented, population & demographic wise, then the point would be moot... Alas ~ it's unavoidable...

In the financial world... IF IT'S JEWS IT'S NEWS... [& I suspect a Jesuit pope will only serve to further that distinction]...

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:02 | 3328504 kito
kito's picture

i assure you francis, the very very vast majority of jewish flock are not looking to take over the world..............they are far too busy looking for sales at cheap suit stores........ ;)

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:16 | 3328542 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture



Unbelievably ~ I mainly agree with you there too [vast majority of jews are not looking to take over the world]...

The problem [I guess] is this... If you narrow the search down to ones WHO ACTUALLY MIGHT BE TRYING, jews are over-represented [DEMOGRAPHICALLY ~ which poses a mathematical anomality]... So it's guilt by association... That same factoid is exacerbated by the fact that even the so-called 'INNOCENT' jews [which you, more or less, rightfully defend], have a 'WORSHIP OF MONEY' gene which seems to be part of their DNA...

So when you look at the situation in aggregate... They all get grouped together...

Look ~ this is just a distinction IN MY MIND... I can't even talk about this kind of stuff in real life because the functioning of the ILLUSORY WORLD is so far distanced from what is, probably, practical reality, that one could go insane doing something as simple as building a bridge between the two...

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:09 | 3328644 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

the whole "jew thing" is just a distraction. it's difficult to subscribe to this view:

it's guilt by association...

sure the hofjuden represent the greedy part of the "jew thing"; but still, in general, the jews are (and always were) the scapegoats for the schemes of jesuits.  the link i give does not really document that angle well, but even from that analysis you can infer that hofjuden were directed by vatican and the jesuit run curia: take your time and do some additional background research and you will see that the jesuit order pulls the strings at the top of the pyramid.  hofjuden are just bankers for the old monarchy and vatican. nothing more.  and the rest of the jews, even in the financial world, are meant to be visible so that when shtf, scapegoats are available, can be blamed and hauled away while the jesuit clergy moves one step closer to their nwo

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:26 | 3328697 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

If you're correct about this then I'll admit I'd have to re-configure my viewpoint...


It's difficult, because it necessarily involves subscribing to a sort of 'ABSOLUTE CONTROL' mechanism [which, I've found, a lot of people on this forum are reticent to plunge their spade into]...

FWIW ~ I'm not FOR it or AGAINST it [in this moment]... But I do like to seek the TRUTH...

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:50 | 3328732 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

let me suggest this scenario for consideration:  let's go w/ the theory that hofjuden, via their debt emitting central banks, own all available world assets, command governments and humans as debt slaves, start wars, etc.  who is more powerful?  is it the hofjuden with all their purported assets?  or is it vatican?  in your opinion, would it not take one jesuit pope to get on his soap box and point his finger at hofjuden as the source of all evil for them to be instantly eradicated?  or, in your opinion, could hofjuden, as owners of cb's and all governments, point their finger at the pope as the source of all religious wars for the pope and his church to be eradicated by people?  i propose to you that the western world is run by the jesuit order and that's where the pinnacle of power currently resides. hofjuden take orders from vatican (jesuits) and the rest of the jews are convenient scapegoats when shtf.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 01:01 | 3328757 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture



In a wildly unexpected turn of events... [one, whereby, most of ZH'ers prolly think that POPE FRANCIS SAWYER is just a run-of-the-mill joo hater]... Let me just say that I can ENVISION the scenario that you outline...

Only TIME will assist in telling te REAL story...

&, in fact, YOUR story, necessarily, suggests that THERE IS A MASTERPLAN... [an idea that I've entertained, but NOT fully committed to]... Instead ~ I feel that there ARE THOSE WHO PRETEND TO BE MASTERPLANNERS ~ But who will FAIL SPECTACULARLY in the end... I DO NOT FEAR THESE MASTERPLANNERS... [whether they be JEWS, or JESUITS pulling the strings on hofjuden]...

They're all gonna fail... Nature... Humanity... People [all their warts], will win in the end...


Thu, 03/14/2013 - 01:39 | 3328803 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

come on francis,

People [all their warts], will win in the end

people already won on this shit planet.  better question is whether people will not lose and/or fail in the know, humanity may not be compatible with nature in the end.

regarding your dislike for master plan(ners) - we wouldnt be here today if humans did not have a master plan.  you or i may not like the present "master plan" but be honest with yourself ~ dont you have your own master plan that you review now and then in your head?  for example, doesnt your particular master plan involve an ideal world w/o jews?  that's one kind of master plan in my view. and that master plan may or may not be compatible with other master plans; but there always, for as long as there is humanity, there always will be some kind of master plan.  would you not agree?

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 14:23 | 3330166 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

francis_sawyer:  fully agree that they are all FOS.

They can also be tragically funny as well. Like all the "Christians" in the US heartland voting for Bush, Jr. 'cause he is anti-abortion but then having him send off their children to kill and be killed. Of course they handle the cognitive dissonance by worshiping the soldier--It's not killing, but noble killing, a good and righteous thing. LOL                                   hujel

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 23:46 | 3328601 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

you had discussions with your mother?

I actually had a discussion with my mother about a week ago on this..

funny, i thought your mother was dead.  for about 10yrs now:

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:43 | 3328728 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Very Good ~


My FATHER... [this is the truth]... actually died on March 11, 2003...

Very particular story... probably only interesting TO ME... I was living in Europe [at the time] & got a phone call on, if I re-call, a Sunday night... I was sitting by myself at a pizzeria & it was my mom on the line that said my dad had become deathly ill in a short time period... [which was infectious in nature]... From where I was sitting, it was almost IMPOSSIBLE that I could have gotten back there in time... But I tried ~ Impossibly, I got a flight out the next morning... Arrived at the airport in the afternoon... Went to the hospital straight from the airport & got to see him late that afternoon... He died early the next morning... THAT'S THE TRUE STORY...

When the subject came up [based on a pithy 'family' comment on ZH]... I was FED UP at the moment because I was aware of the moment [so I edited the story ~ because the idiot comment had to do with my mom]... My MOTHER is alive & well...

I apologize [TO ALL]...


My father was VERY WELL LIKED... I choked out a eulogy for him in front of about 350 people a few days later... He's ALWAYS in my thoughts...


Thu, 03/14/2013 - 01:10 | 3328774 Orly
Orly's picture

I am sorry to hear about your father.

When my dad died, I didn't get to see him at all.  I was stuck down here in Texas with no way to get to New Jersey.

I couldn't even go to his funeral because they kept changing the date and whether he was going to be sent back to Kentucky and have the funeral there or what.  They ended up having it in New Jersey and had his ashes sent back home.

What was sad was, I was asking about the funeral arrangements and how to make plans and my brother was like, "Oh, we did it already."


But he's with me every day, so I'm okay with it.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 01:34 | 3328797 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture



It's like that... Sooner or later EVERYONE will lose one [then BOTH parents]...

You can't dwell on the circumstances around it... [& I never expect people to feel any special sorrow for me, because there's not a person on the planet who doesn't experience it for themselves sooner or later]...

Frankly ~ I wish I'd never have brought the subject up a couple of days ago... Somebody else was just bringing my FAMILY into a discussion & I wanted it to END [because it happened to be on the EVE of my dad's death]...

While I thought it would end there, uniquely, it seems that things conspired to draw the occasion out [MY FAULT ON THAT PART ~ I ADMIT]... It just goes to show you that YOU are never as IN CHARGE as you think at any given moment...

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:41 | 3328430 Tsunami Wave
Tsunami Wave's picture

No.. the pedophiles that get initiated and work in high political offices, the media, hollywood, etc will steal it.  Oh what's that? Only pedophiles are confined to public schools and the catholic church??


For you to watch:

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:46 | 3328447 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

the zionists in the media don't put this forward.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:27 | 3328378 Orly
Orly's picture

Keep it up, boys, and pretty soon there will be permissions and levels of tolerance, ignore buttons and all sorts of other restrictions.

The bad apple always spoils it for the bunch, eh, franky?  I guess you're down with that?

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:28 | 3328383 kito
kito's picture


Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:37 | 3328411 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture



Seriously ~ Orly is not helping your cause...

All kidding aside... As I said above ~ I've been out of the loop for the past 36 hours... But I promise to give you my opinion on the subject when I've had time to look at it... [If you're interested]... I can't promise you I won't be BIASED, but I'll try to at least inject a REASONABLE argument [& let everyone else tear it apart for BIAS]... 


Were there comments 'CENSORED' earlier?... Really?

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:40 | 3328426 kito
kito's picture

oh yeah, all of the rants about the raging hypocrisy of the catholic church...............ALL OF THEM....DOZENS AND DOZENS...never seen anything like it before........

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:46 | 3328448 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

kito ~ seriously... I haven't logged on for the past 36 hours... I'm out of the loop on anything you're talking about...

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:03 | 3328639 defender
defender's picture

See my first post above.

Thu, 03/14/2013 - 00:52 | 3328741 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture



I'll take YOUR comment over the other one... I hate the term 'RACIAL SLUR' [due to the connotation]... We have been conditioned to think that ANY verbage which distinguishes &/or divides RACE/CREED or anything of that distinction is BAD...

Instead ~ I believe that if people are sufficiently strong in character, they will be able overcome such emotionally charged labels...

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:26 | 3328377 kito
kito's picture

otto, are you a good catholic who prays to jesus, who happened to be a JEW and DIED A JEW??????????,,,,, ARE YOU OTTO??????

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:34 | 3328404 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

kito, i have upped arrow you thru this....but usually you get on my fucking nerves....but right is right......if its not fight club its marketwatch......

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:38 | 3328416 kito
kito's picture

what is it about me that disturbs you???

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:42 | 3328432 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

your girly-boy sensitivity..............get over it..........

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 22:57 | 3328488 kito
kito's picture

the nerve of you to say i have girly-boy sensitivity..who the hell do...oh wait.........ahemmm.....


im fine, really............

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