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17 Signs Of A Full-Blown Economic Depression Raging In Southern Europe

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,

When you get into too much debt, eventually really bad things start to happen.  This is a very painful lesson that southern Europe is learning right now, and it is a lesson that the United States will soon learn as well.  It simply is not possible to live way beyond your means forever.  You can do it for a while though, and politicians in the U.S. and in Europe keep trying to kick the can down the road and extend the party, but the truth is that debt is a very cruel master and at some point it inevitably catches up with you.  And when it catches up with you, the results can be absolutely devastating.

Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal all tried to just slow down the rate at which their government debts were increasing, and look at what happened to their economies.  In each case, GDP is shrinking, unemployment is skyrocketing, credit is freezing up and manufacturing is declining.  And you know what?  None of those countries has even gotten close to a balanced budget yet.  They are all still going into even more debt.  Just imagine what would happen if they actually tried to only spend the money that they brought in?

I have always said that the next wave of the economic collapse would start in Europe and that is exactly what is happening.  So keep watching EuropeWhat is happening to them will eventually happen to us.

The following are 17 signs that a full-blown economic depression is raging in southern Europe...

#1 The Italian economy is in the midst of a horrifying "credit crunch" that is causing thousands of companies to go bankrupt...

Confindustria, the business federation, said 29pc of Italian firms cannot meet "operational expenses" and are starved of liquidity. A "third phase of the credit crunch" is underway that matches the shocks in 2008-2009 and again in 2011.

In a research report the group said the economy was caught in a "vicious circle" where banks are too frightened to lend, driving more companies over the edge. A thousand are going bankrupt every day.

#2 During the 4th quarter of 2012, the unemployment rate in Greece was 26.4 percent.  That was 2.6 percent higher than the third quarter of 2012, and it was 5.7 percent higher than the fourth quarter of 2011.

#3 During the 4th quarter of 2012, the youth unemployment rate in Greece was 57.8 percent.

#4 The unemployment rate in Spain has reached 26 percent.

#5 In Spain there are 107 unemployed workers for every available job.

#6 The unemployment rate in Italy is now 11.7 percent.  That is the highest that it has been since Italy joined the euro.

#7 The youth unemployment rate in Italy has risen to a new all-time record high of 38.7 percent.

#8 Unemployment in the eurozone as a whole has reached a new all-time high of 11.9 percent.

#9 Italy's economy is starting to shrink at a frightening pace...

Data from Italy's national statistics institute ISTAT showed that the country's economy shrank by 0.9pc in the fourth quarter of last year and gross domestic product was down a revised 2.8pc year-on-year.

#10 The Greek economy is contracting even faster than the Italian economy is...

Greece also sank further into recession during the fourth quarter of 2012, with figures on Monday showing the economy contracted by 5.7pc year-on-year.

#11 Overall, the Greek economy has contracted by more than 20 percent since 2008.

#12 Manufacturing activity is declining just about everywhere in Europe except for Germany...

Research group Markit said its index of activity in UK manufacturing – where 50 is the cut off between growth and decline – sank from 50.5 in January to 47.9 in February. It left Britain on the brink of a third recession in five years after the economy shrank by 0.3 per cent in the final quarter of 2012.

Chris Williamson, chief economist at Markit, said: ‘This represents a major setback to hopes that the UK economy can return to growth in the first quarter and avoid a triple-dip recession.’

The eurozone manufacturing index also read 47.9. Germany scored 50.3 but Spain hit 46.8, Italy 45.8 and France 43.9.

#13 The percentage of bad loans in Italian banks has risen to 12.2 percent.  Back in 2007, that number was sitting at just 4.5 percent.

#14 Bank deposits experienced significant declines all over Europe during the month of January.

#15 Private bond default rates are soaring all over southern Europe...

S&P said the default rate for Italian non-investment grade bonds jumped to 9.5pc last year from 5.7pc in 2012 as local banks shut off funding. It was even worse in Spain, doubling to 14.3pc.

The default rate in France rocketed from 0.8pc to 8.7pc, the latest in a blizzard of bad news from the country as the delayed effects of tax rises, fiscal tightening, and the strong euro do their worst.

#16 Lars Feld, a key economic adviser to German Chancellor Angela Merkel, recently said the following...

"The sustainability of Italian public finances is in jeopardy. The euro crisis will therefore return shortly with a vengeance."

#17 Things have gotten so bad in Greece that the Greek government plans to sell off 28 state-owned buildings - including the main police headquarters in Athens.

One of the few politicians in Europe that actually understands what is happening in Europe is Nigel Farage.  A video of one of his recent rants is posted below.  Farage believes that "the Eurozone has been a complete economic disaster" and that the worst is yet to come...

Most people believe that the eurozone has been "saved", but that is not even close to the truth.

In fact, it becomes more likely that we will see the eurozone break up with each passing day.

So who would leave first?

Well, recently there have been rumblings among some German politicians that Greece should be the first to leave.  The following is from a recent Reuters article...

Greece remains the biggest risk for the euro zone despite a calming of its economic and political crisis and may still have to leave the common currency, a senior conservative ally of German Chancellor Angela Merkel said.

But there is also a chance that Germany could eventually be the first nation that decides to leave the euro.  In fact, a new political party is forming in Germany that is committed to getting Germany out of the euro.  The following is a brief excerpt from a recent article by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard...

A new party led by economists, jurists, and Christian Democrat rebels will kick off this week, calling for the break-up of monetary union before it can do any more damage.

"An end to this euro," is the first line on the webpage of Alternative für Deutschland (AfD). "The introduction of the euro has proved to be a fatal mistake, that threatens the welfare of us all. The old parties are used up. They stubbornly refuse to admit their mistakes."

They propose German withdrawl from EMU and return to the D-Mark, or a breakaway currency with the Dutch, Austrians, Finns, and like-minded nations. The French are not among them. The borders run along the ancient line of cleavage dividing Latins from Germanic tribes.

However this all plays out, the reality is that things are about to get much more interesting in Europe.

No debt bubble lasts forever.  The Europeans are finding that out right now, and the U.S. won't be too far behind.

But for the moment, most Americans assume that everything is going to be okay because the Dow keeps setting new all-time record highs.

Well, enjoy this little bubble of debt-fueled false prosperity while you can, because it won't last for long.

A massive wake up call is coming, and it will be exceedingly painful for those that are not ready for it.

Greek Economic Riot - Photo by Ggia

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Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:18 | 3333813 AynRandFan
AynRandFan's picture

In the new world, we have conquered the cruelty of debt by simply making it disappear through the magic of monetization.  Unfortunately, in Europe, productive hard-working people in Germany are unwilling to devalue their currency thereby transferring wealth to the urban dependent classes of their southern neighbors.  Here in the U.S., debt is imaginary.  All loans are either made or underwritten by the Fed.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:23 | 3333824 prains
prains's picture

And Ayn Rand played no part in it?

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:40 | 3333874 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

ha. busted.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:53 | 3333908 WayBehind
WayBehind's picture

All they need to do is to sell Messi and Ronaldo and Spain will be just fine. Same for Italy, just sell some soccer players. Not sure about Greece though. 

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:59 | 3334090 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Greece is absolutley ugly... however economists and psychics are predicting it to suck at a slower rate toward the end of the year when there won't be any more businesses left to close... if it doesn't get burnt to the ground this summer that is...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 07:35 | 3334834 auric1234
auric1234's picture

They could send in the spartans. 300 warriors against 280.000 MEUR of debt.


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 09:59 | 3334975 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

The 300 [sic] Spartans could bring along their slaves to help in the fight, like last time...


Every Spartan soldier had 7 slaves in the battle of Thermopyle, ...[A Persian Perspective]

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:11 | 3336111 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

reminds me of the Iraq contractor soldier ratio. Same stuff, different names

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 11:03 | 3335073 Popo
Popo's picture

This coming TUESDAY, Cyprus has announced they will seize PRIVATE bank accounts.    How is that different from:

a) Theft

or b) A banking collapse?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 11:47 | 3335176 thewhitelion
thewhitelion's picture

Doesn't the "anounce in advance" thing diminish the effectiveness?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:18 | 3335438 DavidC
DavidC's picture

No, because it was announced early this Saturday morning and Monday is a bank holiday in Cyprus.


Fri, 03/15/2013 - 22:39 | 3334342 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

She's dead, in case you hadn't heard.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 23:59 | 3334490 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Ah, but her legacy lives on!  Her message is burned into the brains of many an impressionable person.  Her books were a stepping-stone in my journey -- just not the final destination.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 05:13 | 3334755 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Ayn Rand got me thinking about things in new ways.

And after awhile, I stopped thinking about Ayn Rand.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 10:20 | 3334998 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

Greece is that little town , Starnesville , just outside the remains of the 20th Century Motor plant ... and they're starting to throw stones.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 23:20 | 3337147 neutrinoman
neutrinoman's picture

Rand wanted a return to the classical gold standard: "objective money" she called it. Under a gold standard, none of this would have been possible. No aribitary debt and money creation, no bubble, no bust.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:19 | 3333815 Frank N. Beans
Frank N. Beans's picture

we need a graceful ausfarht


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 05:00 | 3334744 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

It will be a graceful aus-fart.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:25 | 3333823 hampsterwheel
hampsterwheel's picture

Bullish - actually am tired of hearing about Greece et al.. and the potential zombie hords - wake me up when a Western Politician is actually shot, tried or hanged - until then - I refuse to believe anything bad will happen

The TBTF and TPTB are living up to their name "Too Big" - bigger than governments -bigger than gold, bigger than markets bigger than Adam Smith - they have proved them all wrong - we're doomed until we're not -

As long as there is no blood there won't be any change - seems like the Arabs are better men than the western man - the Western man see's nothing worth dying for - would mean no smart phone or American Idol or NFL -



Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:30 | 3333848 willwork4food
Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:49 | 3333903 SKY85hawk
SKY85hawk's picture

Dude, Unlock it before you post it.



You don't have permission to access /images/2011/08/maria-menounos-greek-nitro-magazine-august-2011-7.jpg on this server.

Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS) Server at Port 80
Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:55 | 3333916 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

He doesn't earn a +1 till we can see Maria.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 21:24 | 3334173 brak
brak's picture

and her menounos!

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:01 | 3333932 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

After you try to load the picture chANGE THE NUMBER 7 TO 6. iT'S A PICTURE OF A WOMAN.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:04 | 3333939 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I expected more Maria skin, dammit.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:06 | 3333949 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Still lovely. Better with clothes on. Especially Meg!

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:30 | 3334025 Manthong
Fri, 03/15/2013 - 21:21 | 3334164 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

So is it now appropriate to bring up the word 'vagina'. As in what a gaping maw!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 05:14 | 3334756 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Now that you've met my gaping maw, I'd like to introduce my groping paw.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 03:30 | 3334692 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

I see a welcome mat and an open door.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 05:15 | 3334757 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Be polite, wipe your feet before you enter.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 22:51 | 3334363 Blano
Blano's picture

Hot damn that's nice.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:33 | 3334037 are we there yet
are we there yet's picture

4food Your link is infected with something.... I had to close everything out and navigate back into zerohedge.  Use with caution.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:38 | 3334051 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

I've got anti-virus protection and it alerts me if there's a site problem. There wasn't a problem with this link. It's not porn, just a picture.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 23:40 | 3334468 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

There wasn't a problem with this link. It's not porn, just a picture.

Then there's a problem...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 11:49 | 3335183 thewhitelion
thewhitelion's picture

Don't bother.  Even if you get there it's spam city.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 22:02 | 3334262 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

...and then there's China:


'The increasing total of dead pigs tossed into a river that delivers water to Shanghai shines a light on a Chinese pork industry with few controls.

SHANGHAI/BEIJING – The number of dead pigs found in a Shanghai river that provides drinking water to the Chinese financial hub has risen to 8,354, after local authorities pulled 809 more pigs out of the river on Friday.

The Shanghai municipal government has repeatedly assured the city's 23 million residents that tap water is safe. Shanghai locals, however, remain worried about water contamination from the swollen and rotting pig carcasses in the river.'

The rotting pig bodies in a river that supplies tap water to Shanghai has drawn attention to an ugly truth – China's pig farms are often riddled with disease and one way or another, sick animals often end up in the food chain.


8,354 !! This is beginning to look bad .....

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 05:16 | 3334758 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Somebody needs to teach those fucking pigs how to swim. This is ridiculous.

Really, if they can't be bothered to protect themselves from drowning, they deserve what they get.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 08:20 | 3334867 Dugald
Dugald's picture


Rotting pig should go nicely with hundred year old eggs......

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:26 | 3333830 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Interesting how the U.S. used correct fiscal and monetary policy - up until the sequester - and have found traction for a recovery, and Europe used austerity and have slipped further into a depression.

Maybe the G.O.P. and Europe's hawks should take a lesson from the Liberals and doves?

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:30 | 3333849 Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

We had zero growth last quarter before the sequestor and are already in a recession (continued depression).

Latvia and Estonia prove that cutting costs (government) cause short term pain for long term gain.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 21:58 | 3334257 Jani
Jani's picture

Mission: As a Latvian American, a greenie for you for the Lativia vs Krugman link, we don't get much press.

Government austerity can help economic woes, just tough to convice the politicians that they have to sever their own body parts.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 22:52 | 3334371 epi_tis_thalassis
epi_tis_thalassis's picture

Yeah and cutting population probably helped. That's what I would call a "solution" the nazi way:

"Austerity" is only a new term for the ancient game: appropriation throught debt on a finite monetary base. People work and produce and build and during this phase lending functions as tool for growth and nobody cares because there is "progress". But if money is indestructible (private or not) it is slowly drained out of the society and replaced by debt. And then a shock and voila! everything passes to the "lenders". That's how civilizations die. That's how the roman civilization gave birth to the middle ages (and maybe that's why islam abolished debt in the beginning).

That's what would happen to the life on the planet if it weren't for the cycle of water. If water were to stop evaporating from the oceans to return as rain, everything would be dead. If man is to build a sustainable civiliazation, there has to be a monetary system that recycles money and respects and serves values not wealth. Till then every cycle comes down to war and destruction.

Obviously an attempt at that is a constitution and a declaration on human rights but if the system is not clearly established or it is hijacked (as by the big bankers in the USA) it makes no difference in the end (as that famous Rotschild saying goes about laws and money issuing). International treaties are now stronger than constitutions, and money a higher value than human rights. There will be (more) pain of course.


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 05:22 | 3334761 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Unfortunately, the obvious way to fix a lot of problems is for 'somebody' to kill off us old geezers and take all our stuff.

Fixes the Medicare problem, saves Social Security, and with the loot, it might even reduce the deficit for a couple of years.

And since humans are too stupid to remember their own history, their kids can have it done to them during the next demographic cliff.

"I tell you, this is a GREAT plan, Mr. President, and I'm sure you can sell it to enough of them to make it worth the effort."

This dumb idea of killing off the impoverished but energetic younger generations in war after war is so 20th Century.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:25 | 3335764 r3phl0x
r3phl0x's picture

As a millenial, I endorse this message. By murdering just two or three million boomers per day, together, we can greatly increase per-capita GDP.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 01:17 | 3337308 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

It'll work.

And the fact that you're next makes it all seem fair to everybody.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:34 | 3333856 prains
prains's picture


how is the simple act of printing fictious fiat currency and calling it money, sound fiscal policy? If I had the printer that's what I'd do too but for some reason I'd be arrested for doing it.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:37 | 3333867 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

The money is supporting finance, finance is supporting the economy; as the economy recovers revenue picks up.

Any questions?

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:42 | 3333878 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Im tired of paying interest on the debt..........

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:12 | 3333965 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

OK Forget about paying the interest, just pay the principle.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:52 | 3333904 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

I think you'll find that an economy that "picks up", as it did in 2011, and 2010, on the basis of part time employment, is destined to yield numbers like 2012Q4 0.1%, and part time workers in a progressive tax code pay a great deal less tax than they did when working full time previous jobs.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 21:50 | 3334231 adr
adr's picture

Paul Krugman says:

"When workers pay less in taxes it's ok because the government can just increase spending to take up the slack of the worker. In fact by increasing the minimum wage you will increase the amount of money paid into systems like the Social Security Trust Fund, which the government can issue treasury bonds against allowing it to borrow more money. The increased tax revenue will go to pay for the interest on the accumulated debt, which due to low interest rate, will be able to be paid without incident."

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 06:09 | 3334763 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

I propose the WPA.

The Window Projects Administration.

Simple as a congressman, really. Just gather unemployed workers into teams, then send them through town breaking all the windows.

Next day, another team comes through town replacing all the windows.

Soon the economy is booming again with the wealth created by putting all these people back to work.

Seems like another brilliant Win-Win to me.


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 08:07 | 3334856 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

Krugman Krewz - We break 'em, you fake 'em!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 08:24 | 3334870 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

seems many here do not understand that this is planned, so sad we fight about economic systems as if they are the matter at hand. the matter at hand are the reptiles running the world economies into the ground ..NWO. so many still have thier" eyes wide shut", wake up this is the plan, your economic models never take into account elites who are in power have no intention of making a socialist heaven or a free economy. but to come to that understanding is just too hard too painful for most.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 09:02 | 3334902 Colonel Walter ...
Colonel Walter E Kurtz's picture

Is "gallon smashing" a new Krugman youth public works program?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 09:08 | 3334912 negative rates
negative rates's picture

To hell with that, just buy a beamer, Break My Windows!

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:52 | 3333906 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

When do you expect the money that's "supporting finance" to trickle down to the rest of us, or are we just supposed to feeeeeeel the Wealth Effect™?

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:55 | 3333915 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

It's a big club, and we ain't in it, and Paul K is like the David Spade character from coneheads.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:17 | 3333981 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

It's a warm yellow.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 05:26 | 3334764 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Don't piss down my back and tell me it's rainin'

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:56 | 3333920 Mr. Hudson
Mr. Hudson's picture

What U.S. president was the first to implement that economic policy in peacetime, and what were the results within a few years?

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:24 | 3334003 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Can someone get a vacuum around here... Kruggers keeps breaking the windows.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:05 | 3333942 prains
prains's picture

Any questions? NO


three fallacies in your mind is really just a giant phallus in our behinds

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:23 | 3333998 Pareto
Pareto's picture

Yeah plenty.  Your Keynesian model assumes static inter-temporal preferences - that people don't change their preferences given a change in the system's rules and price signals.  Re-read Lucas(1976).  dy/dg merely amounts to a redistribution of wealth and increasing debt because the government has to take resources from either a current productive area of the economy, or, issue bonds and take it from future productivity.  either way dy/dg <0.

Moreover, if you understand the Lucas critique you actually have the opposite of your Keynesian desired outcome when it comes to encouraging real aggregate demand.  As government spends money (that it doesn't have), there is a tacit recognition that it has to be paid back, presumably through higher taxes.  Forward looking, given the life cycle theory, people will actually SAVE, not spend, and they will save increasingly more (see Hugh Hendry - Buttonwood), get by with increasingly less in anticipation.  Moreover, as the non-wealth generating component of the economy (primary dealers) spend increased reserves, they bid up asset prices.  In addition, firms recognize that the price pressures down the labor and capital chains are not a result of increased volume (real demand), rather they are a result of too much money chasing too few goods.  Its why firms are producing the same, but doing so with less input costs, hence their margins are widening despite declining gross revenues (sales).

So, you have pressure on labor with an associated and unintended incentive response of not actually increasing cap. ex., since there is no need.  Utilization rates are nowhere near capacity.  There is no real demand.  The stock market is an excellent proxy for similar behaviour - prices rising on decreasing volume.

The bottom line.  The FED has grossly encouraged the mis-pricing of risk EVERYWHERE.  Capital markets are in complete disarray, since it cannot correctly assay risk based on demonstrated preferences.  there is no real commitment ANYWHERE in the market place.

Tell me how you think thsi is going to end up?  Were 5 years in, and it aint working.  How much further down the rabbit hole do you need to go before you figure it out?

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:28 | 3334018 Mr. Hudson
Mr. Hudson's picture

As long as OPEC keeps selling their oil for U.S. dollars, this can go on for a very long time.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:42 | 3334061 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

But they ain't. Read Doug Casey.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 05:27 | 3334765 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

The deserts are golden.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 21:03 | 3334112 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Yes Dr Krugman, how about forming a 'support group' for ZH members so those of us still holding on to retarded 'memes' such as: personal freedom, small government and most importantly sound money can confess in your presence giving you the opportunity to instruct and educate.

Just post your address here and I am sure many will take up this opportunity to 'listen' to your genius. Do not fear we are not judgmental.  For example, if your 'house boy' seems alarmed tell him to go back up to the bedroom.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 21:11 | 3334136 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

Hey Krugman.

Fuck you, you fucking fuck

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 21:11 | 3334137 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

Hey Krugman.

Fuck you, you fucking fuck

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 21:13 | 3334143 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

This is one time I just cannot bring myself to apologise for a double post

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 00:39 | 3334534 prains
prains's picture

And rightly so

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 00:39 | 3334535 prains
prains's picture

And rightly so

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 06:59 | 3334811 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Bon mot, Sir.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 20:00 | 3336606 prains
prains's picture

Beaujolais !

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 22:10 | 3334284 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture
A very good impersonation of the real Krugman, indeed. His idiocy sounds so natural... He should mention that Nobel prize more often though, just to better emulate his character's ego.
Fri, 03/15/2013 - 22:55 | 3334377 Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

It's sad that Krugman has such a large following. Due to his dishonesty and insecure shortcomings, millions of people that are stuck in stage one will never know what hit them. When SHTF and his "believers" lose everything he should be hung from a tree.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 23:37 | 3334460 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

The best thing about revolutions is that pretty soon, they tend to devour their own creators and suporters in most spectacular though rather unpleasant manners...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 00:07 | 3334500 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You can judge the fragility of markets by the number of appearances he makes on the cable shows.  He's there to smooth the bumps by dazzling 'em with his BS.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 22:52 | 3334369 Blano
Blano's picture

Unfortunately so does the spending, you stupid fuck.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 01:11 | 3334574 Terra-Firma
Terra-Firma's picture

Age old problem repeated. jubilee!!!!!!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 04:51 | 3334739 bentaxle
bentaxle's picture

Krugman, you're much better at entertainment than economics!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 20:00 | 3336607 Clycntct
Clycntct's picture

"Any questions?" OK try this one. How could it be possible for any more than one person with your name to be the biggest ASS on ZH?

WEEEEEEEE FREEE Paper for all. Were cured.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:38 | 3333866 TallDog83
TallDog83's picture

PK, so if you live in a fantasy world in which you think you can live way past your means all you want and then are forced to cut expenses because the bond market flips and decides that your debt is not worth the paper it's written on, is your ensuing poverty simply a result of bad government policy of austerity?? What planet do you live on?? 

I love it how you liberals live in this fantasy world and pretend that austerity is simply a choice a government makes and not something that is the consequence of raw economic forces when you're just broke because of stupid monetary and fiscal policy. Deficit spending -> debt -> interest payments on that debt -> austerity whether by choice or by stupidity.

This idea of perpetual deficit spending is sheer lunacy. If you think that the US has used correct fiscal and monetary policy all the way up until the sequester, you are truly a political hack. 

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:42 | 3333873 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Go read a book or take a class in economics:  Start with macro and work your way up.  Come back when you have a minimal understanding of market forces and credit based economies.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:44 | 3333887 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

   Where in any Econ. class has this relentless spending been taught?  The only market force is $85b a month in POMO operations!

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:47 | 3333893 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Someone needs to spend in hard times, and since in hard times revenue is short, the government picks up the slack.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:56 | 3333917 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

With a zillion strings attached to as yet unborn marionettes........

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:59 | 3333928 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

     In theory you are correct. It seems that TBTF have screwed us.  Once again, do you see any filter down effect after 5 years? Corps are keeping $s off shore. Even tech Cos. are down sizing. The government isn't picking up the slack Dr. Krugman. The Government is just bailing out it's top vendors.

     You are a smart man, and I'm not being partisan in any way. Spending is great. It's called CapEx in the corporate world.  Just take a walk incognito, and see what is really going on. Thanks for your time.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:59 | 3333929 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

It's all fun and games til somebody stops accepting your currency....................Doh!

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:09 | 3333957 Timmay
Timmay's picture

Someone needs to print in hard times, and since in hard times revenue is short, the government prints up the slack.


There, fixed it.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:11 | 3333962 TallDog83
TallDog83's picture

Hey PK, the government can not provide wealth but only confiscate it. Go read a book on Austrian economics and the business cycle and then come back and talk to us when you have a minimal understanding of the basics. 

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:16 | 3333980 Mr. Hudson
Mr. Hudson's picture

He has a point. You can't mix Austrian economics with a credit based finacial system. The whole world is on a fiat system. Get rid of that, then we can apply Austrian economics. In the meantime, we need more debt to create more money.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:43 | 3334064 TallDog83
TallDog83's picture

We need productivity, not debt. Increasing debt to an already debt saturated economy will only lead to a final destruction of the financial system in either a severe inflationary or deflationary crash. The debt really needs to be written down and eliminated by natural market forces, but our central planners of the world have a gluttony for societal pain and will most likely drag this thing out by monetization until the currency collapses under its own weight. The fiat system we have will eventually be destroyed precisely because of this misguided government policy in favor of excessive and uncontained credit expansion. 

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 22:55 | 3334379 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Economics is not about models or artificial systems. Go read more Austrian authors and you might learn what that means.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 23:37 | 3334463 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture




Actually, Krugman 2.0 is correct for the kind of economy we are trying to prop up.


A consumer economy requires consumers. No consumers, no economy.


The problem today is the crunch isn't excess inventory or even a balance sheet impairment but a shortage of capital, it has become unaffordably expensive. The government trying to expend more capital or to stimulate its expenditure by the private sector is working at odds with itself. That is where Krugman 2.0 is off the track.


What we need is austeri ... sorry, stringent conservation of all capital. (natural resources are capital, btw. When they told you it wasn't, they lied.)

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 07:52 | 3334847 auric1234
auric1234's picture

We need to bring back the savers. No savers, no capital. Only worthless paper. It is called "money" by FIAT, but it's still worthless paper because it's not backed by anyone's effort.

And if you want savers, you need to reward them. NIRP doesn't exactly help on this regard.


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 08:51 | 3334892 Mr. Hudson
Mr. Hudson's picture

Explain to me how you create more money in a debt-based fiat system without creating more debt?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 10:00 | 3334969 TallDog83
TallDog83's picture

I agree with you that in the current fiat system, "money" (although this is really just a unit of currency, although I'll stay out of the semantics) is a unit of debt issued by a central bank which is then further amplified via fractional reserve banking, which, of course, is one of the paramount reasons for some sort of metallic backing or sound money system to restrain government spending and credit expansion. However, that does not change the fact that the Austrian business cycle is very much at play here, and unfortunately the outcome at this point is going to involve a lot of pain.

The truth is our entire economy on every level is utterly saturated with debt. Certainly there is enormous government debt, including unfunded liabilities on mandatory spending mostly on welfare programs, but the real enormity of debt is in the private sector which actually dwarfs the totality of government debt over all, much of which is non-performating malinvestment. Banks aren't lending because of their impaired balance sheets and fear of unworthy borrowers and potential borrowers aren't taking on loans because of uncertainty in the economy. So the Fed can throw as much money via QE as it likes at the banks and the economy is still not moving. It just sits at the Fed as excess reserves.

Regardless how this plays out with either a sudden deflationary crash with a wave of defaults and bankruptcies, or expanded government spending that eventually triggers a hyperinflationary currency collapse, I'm not sure. Either way, intentionally adding more fuel to the fire in the form of more debt is only going to worsen the final outcome and certainly will not solve anything in the long run, maybe just drag it out a little in the meantime. All the bad debt and malinvestment needs to be cleared from the system, in order for a healthy new economy to restart. At that point I am hopeful a new monetary system with defined boundaries will be set in place to replace the highly manipulated and fraudulent concept of money we have today. 


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 19:46 | 3336556 Mr. Hudson
Mr. Hudson's picture

Your post was very well thought out, and I agree with you. One viewpoint was that of Griffin's, in his book "Creature from Jykell Island". Griffin was saying America's debt will be rolled over into another loan by a World Bank. This could possibly prevent a "total collapse", but would always keep Americans as slaves to debt, of which we would never be free.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 20:12 | 3336649 Clycntct
Clycntct's picture

"All the bad debt and malinvestment needs to be cleared from the system"

Your critical analysis is missing one critical component.

The AhHmm to put it nicely . The removal of the Malmanagement.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:37 | 3334050 Slightly Insane
Slightly Insane's picture

Everyone spends in "hard times", it's called living.  It is only discretionary spending that is curtailed.  I may cut back on luxuries, but that occurrs when my money does not go as far because it is being unlawfully devalued.  Overtime, or profits may drop as well, but that is a normal condition caused by the excesses created in the market which caused the contraction in the first place.

Instead Mr. Krugman, you suggest that money (property) be taken from those that earned it, and through the government that money is given to someone (or a company) that is on hard times because they were foolish with their money and ways.  So the Government incentivizes "bad behavior" by bailing out the "weak", at the expense of the smart, diligent, hard working "strong".  This is "bad" and will always be "bad".  If you were not on the Government "subsidy" of education, you would have to "earn a living" instead of being the main propagandist for the bad actions of the Government.  There shall be no reward of bad behavior, or you "get more of it".  The penalty of going out of business, or losing profits is the reward for acting foolishly.

Mr. Krugman, this country has been following your plan to have the Government spend, and spend .... going on what ... 5 years, maybe 6 .... and still no recovery in sight.  I suggest that your solution is as wrong as the day is long, and that wasteful spending by the Government incentivizes all the wrong behaviors.  The proof is all around you.  I question the value of your "Prefessorship".  If you were a medical doctor, and the economy was your patient, the patient would be dead, and worse yet, the heirs would be left with the tab.  Was it Greenland or Iceland that let the banksters take their medicine in the shorts ..... and they let bad investments take the hit.  They are roaring back from the dead.  I have not determined if your just a shill for the Communists and wish to destroy this nation, or you are just a PH'd with a worthless education in a ficticous art or craft.  Sir, your recipe is wrong.  Time to quit defending the wrong activity.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 05:00 | 3334746 bentaxle
bentaxle's picture

+1000 S.I.


Hey Krudman....where are you now?!?! You can piss on my feet and tell me it's raining for so long. Eventually everyone will see YOU are the problem! Ya geddit yet??

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:53 | 3334058 legorf
legorf's picture

I would agree if the government was actually creating jobs, thus spending on i.e. infrastructure projects.

But the fact is, the government is giving out free money in the form of social security checks and food stamps to a lot of folks who should instead be working and creating goods and services, creating a virtuous circle by building back their own balance sheet through work (if you are unemployed, no bank will lend you money) and by spending their hard but well earned money.

Free money doesn't create goods or services. It is simply a transfer of wealth, delayed because it is funded through deficits, thus foreigners savings and the Fed. What would be a sound economic policy would be to create jobs the private sector is unable to provide. Doing so, the laborers would actually produce something, there would not be any wealth transfer but instead, investment, led by the government. The US economy would actually GET something from the money the government spends.

Let me be clear, I'm not against social security when it is meant to help those that are left behind. But social security/unemployment benefits/food stamps are not meant to sustain 40% of the population out of the labor force.

Right now, this money would be better spent creating jobs paving roads, expanding/upgrading the transit system, building electric power plants, upgrading the sewage system, renovating schools, even building stadiums or collective life enhancing projects (playgrounds, baseball/football fields, etc ...). These would be assets for the American economy (not just thrown away money even though it helps to sustain domestic demand), plus it would help laborers to keep/increase their human capital instead of simply losing it, staying home, playing on the playstation.

Overall, the economy is all about producing goods and services. The right way to stimulate the economy and to start a virtuous cycle is to create goods and services, creating revenues that will be spent back into the economy, taking the full advantage of the multiplier effect.

I would also add that allowing banks to use free money from the Fed to play on the market is a very bad economic policy. Preventing those institutions to do proprietary trading would force them to lend the money for investment projects that actually create something, again, goods and services.

Anyway you look at it, the US economy has to create more goods and services and the government is failing at this simple task. I understand their goal, give free money, this money will be spent on goods and services, revenues gained by the producers of said goods and services will, in turn, be spent on other goods and services, etc ... But doing it that way, you skip one step, that was creating goods and services in the first place instead of giving away the money. You are holding back the multiplier effect when you give free money instead of providing jobs.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 21:17 | 3334153 augustus caesar
augustus caesar's picture

So you're saying when the government spends, capital is not being mis-allocated resulting in future economic inefficiencies? Central planners are just god-like beings, that by using the power of science, are more capable of determining where the public's money should be spent than private citizens interacting within competitive free markets? Is that the idea?

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 22:18 | 3334291 legorf
legorf's picture

augustus caesar, most infrastructures in North America are degradating fast. One way or the other, you have to upgrade your sewage system, mass transit system, schools, etc ... Those are public goods, the private sector is usually unable to provide those to the public in an efficient way.

In good times, you should plan the upgrades, in recession times, the government should spend the money and get it done. That's all I'm saying.

Now, yes, politicians are usually stupid and corrupted. But at one point, every nation gets the politician it deserves. Have a look at how many americans watch reality shows vs. how many actually watch the news and are interested in politics. Shame on who? Shame on each and every American citizen.

Nevertheless, when aggregate demand drops dramatically, you don't have that many choices. Last time around, the solution was to start a world war, build weapons and kill millions of people. I'm not sure this is the best way to go. What do you think?

Austherity was actually tried and tested following the Versaille Treaty, asking Germans to pay for the cost of world war 1. We all know how it ended. Extreme left and right politics took the upper stage and the National Socialists (Nazi) took control of the country. Is this the way to go? Look at what is happening in Europe and tell me we are not going towards a similar outcome. The unemployed ask for jobs or benefits, otherwise, revolution/war is looming.

All in all, if you are to spend money, I'm saying it is much better to provide jobs than free money at the expense of others. At least, when you invest, the whole economy gains physical assets and a much greater multiplier effect. Plus, when investing, you actually give contracts to companies who will pay taxes and so are the workers. You give 1$ on the one hand, on the other hand, you get 35 cents back right away. Simple math.

Of course, if you build roads to nowhere ...


Giving you an "up" arrow anyway, you are right to say that spending too much too fast usually leads to bad investments. I'm not denying that fact.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 23:00 | 3334391 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"the private sector is usually unable to provide those to the public in an efficient way."

No. Governments prevent private entrepreneurs from doing so, or establish a private monopoly, or just a public monopoly. Plenty of private companies have and do run all these types of projects all over the world. Your statement is simply not true.

The government can never plan properly, it has zero incentive to do so, its actions and very existence create insurmountable economic distortions, it's run by economic incompetents with no business experience, and has effectively infinite funds, and has no good way of ascertaining demand.

So what about jobs? Create lots of jobs - for which there is not adequate demand for the private sector to deem creating them profitable? Simply creating them has no relation to their profitability if they're being created by fiat. Nine out of ten times it's going to become a money pit, only by sheer luck will you hit upon something the public didn't even know it wanted, like cars or the internet. Look at GM since the bailout.

That's malinvestment just as much as stuffing money in banks is.

Nonetheless, it would be better, in some ways, than having those who could be productively employed (given their current knowledge, training, and skills) sitting around receiving unemployment and welfare, which will never by themselves produce a net return. But then you need a mechanism by which to reintigrate these erstwhile public employees back into the private sector when the economy improves. Kinda like the government paying off its debts during the good times, it never happens, for the very reasons I outlined above.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 06:29 | 3334793 chubbyjjfong
chubbyjjfong's picture

Legorf. I understand what you are saying and yes, it would be better than the mess the CBs have created for us at present no doubt, but I have to agree with Totentanzerlied. If you simply plough money solely into government controlled infrastructure job creation you are in essence, creating a new system. No more democracy. All you will be left with is communism. The best you can hope to achieve is a very distorted society with diminishing personal drive and competition. You would need incredibly intellegent and selfless leadership. The distortions that would arise would require increasing force. Although logical on the surface, expanding government in terms of non-corrupt infrastructure job creation will likely create more problems than it initially attempted to solve.

China is a good example. They created infrastructure jobs and now have ghost cities and a potentially disastrous property bubble. What is the point of creating a beautiful new city when no one can afford to live in it. The other extreme. You can build beautiful new cities big enough to house the whole population. Then what? Communism? Everyone treated as equal? It is beyond imagination how complex the current system has become. It is obvious that it has become far too complicated to attempt to fix.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 01:29 | 3334595 Matt
Matt's picture

"Austherity was actually tried and tested following the Versaille Treaty, asking Germans to pay for the cost of world war 1. We all know how it ended."

Creating a debt obligation equal to 16,000 tonnes of gold, and charging compounding interest on it, is not austerity.

Math: actual schedule A and B bonds were for 50 billion German Gold Marks, and ~3000 gold marks = 1 kilogram of gold, so 50 billion / 3000 = 16,666,666 Kg. Then add compounding interest.

Austerity is when a government reduces spending until tax revenues exceed expenditures. Canada did it from 1996 to 2006, and it worked great; we bounced back from 106.5% debt-to-GDP. Then the Conservatives got into power, then the GFC happened. 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 10:05 | 3334979 legorf
legorf's picture

Hey dude I'm Canadian you won't fool me on that one.

What the liberal party (PLC) did was to reduce transfer payments to provinces (health care to name but only one). They shovelled the problem in other jurisdictions. Part of the deficit was just transferred to provinces.

Plus they did reduce the deficit and the debt by taking money out of the surpluses of unemployment insurance. If you didn't know, this is not the government money. The gvt manages it, but doesn't pay a penny for it (the gvt contributes like all employers and employees but doesn't subsidize it).

What is more, Chretien promised to get rid of the GST in 93, he didn't. The primary deficit reduction (without interest payments) was first done by Mulroney implementing the GST. Know your Canadian history.

Moreover, the Canadian Federal government reduced his deficit while the economy WAS NOT IN RECESSION. I would add that at that time, the Canadian dollar was trading below 80 cents and bottomed around 60 cents. Our manufacturing sector was able to export stuff to the US which was in good shape at the time. Now, with petroleum at 100$ and the CAD near parity, the manufacturing sector is bleeding (-25k mfg jobs just last month, that would equal to -250k in the US). Oil price differentials (Western Canadian Select price vs. WTI) is weak because of oil transportation bottlenecks. Alberta, our economic engine now that manufacturing is dead, is starting having trouble. I would add that a big part of our deficit is because Harper reduced the GST from 7% to 5%, not so much because of more spending.

Sorry but you have it all wrong on the Canadian government. While I agree that reducing the deficit was a VERY good idea, you have to know how they did it, why and when (not during a recession, there was no recession in Canada in 2001 by the way, for your information).

If you were to give me an example, I would suggest you refer to Sweden. Have a look at this:

As for the German case, austerity is when you have a debt load (whatever how it happened) and the government has to pay for it. Period. Now we can argue about what caused the debt, how, when, why, the sad truth is, if the government has to pay his debt, it doesn't have many choices. 1- increase taxes. 2- reduce spending. 3-monetize the debt. If you do that for too long, political extremism arises, then revolution and possibly war.

Don't get me wrong, I think the government should not overspend. But when it comes to public goods (such as sewer system and mass transit), if the government underinvested in those for years (this is the case in North America), there is a case to increase gvt capex spending when the economy turns sour. At least, this is a much better strategy then giving out free money. A government has debt and assets. When you give out free money, you don't increase your assets but increase your debt, thus net debt. If you spend on assets, you end up with a much lower net debt increase. At least, you get something for the money you spend.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 12:25 | 3335278 Matt
Matt's picture

EI is a scam anyways, and still a better outcome than a credit crisis.

Selling off the gold and buying US debt to get to parity was all part of the whole Amero plan; since the purchasing power increased from ~0.60 to ~1.00 USD, manufacturing workers should have taken a wage and benefit cut to remain competitive.

The oil pricing issue also has something to do with some complicated formulas in NAFTA, I think.

As for doing austerity outside of a recession, that is what governments are supposed to do; run deficits during recession and run surpluses during growth times. Otherwise, you end up with a debt crisis.

Chretien couldn't get rid of the GST, because the country's finances were in such terrible shape. i.e. 106.5 % debt-GDP.

As for Sweden & Norway, they are living high off non-renewable resources. Canada cannot due that because of the Albertans. We'll see how well the Nordic countries due when their oil and gas production starts to fall and their demographics roll over.

Sewer systems and mass transit are really municipal issues, not federal. We really don't need or want more central planning.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 22:09 | 3334273 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

Letting the market detrmine it's own fate, whether that means hard times or not, is the only way for a market to operate. The market doesn't need stupid, egotistical cunts like your namesake advocating that the government push and pull on strings in the vain hope that stupid human beings think they are smart enough to control the fate of a a system with a near infinite number of combinations of inputs and subsequent outputs. The free market, you communist central planning fuck nose, is the only system that will work. The free market is the only system that will expose true price and true value, the only system that opens the valve when risk has been reduced to an acceptable level (a level the market determines and not some bald, tea sipping stamp collector sitting in an ivory tower), the only system that shuts the valve when risk increases to an unacceptable level. Do you get it moron. Free market. Price discovery. Ironically an anagram of Paul Krugman is "Gunk Up Alarm". The alarm bells are sounding or at least they were until central planners got on the rags and decided it was too early to get up so keep hitting snooze. Governments have too much debt, interest rates are artificially low, money is too cheap, risks are too high, do you get any of this you dill. You cunt, I mean you can't outsmart the market forever, how many times has history demonstrated that any form of central planning doesn't work. Let the market set interest rates then the government debt issue will be resolved in short order because they simply won't be able to afford to borrow anymore. Oh . . . . and by the way . . . . . . fuck you. 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 00:14 | 3334514 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Everybody knows what needs to be done, and should be done.  But you can rest assured that nothing will be done until the country is slammed up against the wall.  Only then... 

Being irritable about the stupidity and arrogance that runs this country is a useless exercise.   Being smart about taking care of those close to us is the only sure course.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 05:33 | 3334766 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Good advice.

And although I still go through life pissed off at my fellow primates, I am making new efforts to take care of those close to me.

Planning for a tougher future actually is helping make the present a little more fun for all of us.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 22:05 | 3334275 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

Letting the market detrmine it's own fate, whether that means hard times or not, is the only way for a market to operate. The market doesn't need stupid, egotistical cunts like your namesake advocating that the government push and pull on strings in the vain hope that stupid human beings think they are smart enough to control the fate of a a system with a near infinite number of combinations of inputs and subsequent outputs. The free market, you communist central planning fuck nose, is the only system that will work. The free market is the only system that will expose true price and true value, the only system that opens the valve when risk has been reduced to an acceptable level (a level the market determines and not some bald, tea sipping stamp collector sitting in an ivory tower), the only system that shuts the valve when risk increases to an unacceptable level. Do you get it moron. Free market. Price discovery. Ironically an anagram of Paul Krugman is "Gunk Up Alarm". The alarm bells are sounding or at least they were until central planners got on the rags and decided it was too eraly to get up so hit snooze. Governments have too much debt, interest rates are artificially low, money is too cheap, risks are too high, do you get any of this you dill. You can't outsmart the market forever, how many times has history demonstrated that any form of central planning doesn't work. Let the market set interest rates then the government debt issue will be resolved in short order because they simply won't be able to afford to borrow anymore. Oh . . . . and by the way . . . . . . fuck you. 

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 22:06 | 3334277 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

I ain't pressing the save button twice I swear to zeus. This is the universe trying to tell you something.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 23:41 | 3334470 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Dr. K, what's your view on Bitcoin?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 04:17 | 3334712 pomlad5
pomlad5's picture

government does not spend. at zero interest rate they give money to prime dealers.  Iwould spend if getting money at zero interest rate. bank loans it at 7 percent plus.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 05:36 | 3334770 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

Come on then Krugman, splash the cash you prick.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 07:48 | 3334844 auric1234
auric1234's picture

Is that why you went broke? You were overburdened by debt, and then applied the "someone needs to spend in hard times" idea?


Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:49 | 3333901 machineh
machineh's picture

Reinhart and Rogoff already wrote that book.

It describes the end game of Kurgmanomics.

This Time Is Different (were they quoting you?) makes your books read like The Onion (large print edition).

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:57 | 3333921 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

i thought it was not hard times. I thought it's been 5 years since hard times. It's still hard times? Dammit!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 05:34 | 3334768 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

The economy is like my grandmother. After her stroke, she slowly kept improving right up to the day she died.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:18 | 3333984 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Ever thing I learned in school is wrong.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:27 | 3334011 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Up to and including grammar it seems...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 05:35 | 3334769 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture


Fri, 03/15/2013 - 21:11 | 3334138 bjfish
bjfish's picture

That IS the rat-bastard, political hack extroadinaire Dr. Krugman. 

Who else feigns intellectual superiority as an explanation of how he is always right.  Don't you simpletons get it ... Gov't spends money and economy gets better. And don't forget he has a PhD and a left-wing prize. 

The PIIGS are all in bad shape 'cuz they didn't spend enuf, not 'cuz they spent too much.  If only Dr. Krug could advise them; think how much better off they would be with pockets full of trillion dollar coins.


Fri, 03/15/2013 - 22:12 | 3334288 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

What good have economics classes done you?

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 22:54 | 3334373 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

christ, double post again.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 23:39 | 3334466 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

Modern ecocomic treatises are not worth the paper they're written on, hence our miserable state of the affairs.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:06 | 3333946 Timmay
Timmay's picture

What role does having the Reserve currency play in your lesson Dr. Krugman??

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:08 | 3333954 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

How much for a subscription?

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:11 | 3333961 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I hope there's a section all about beard care and its effects on the economy as a whole.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:15 | 3333975 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Injecting more heroin into your veins sure made the trick uh? Then the next injection will need to be bigger and bigger and bigger... till you die of overdose instead of just blacking out. Freaking Krugman... Or do like Europe... put less and less heroin into your veins so you can come off of it entirely... sure it's painful but at least you're on the track to recovery. America is just on the track to DEATH.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 21:42 | 3334213 adr
adr's picture

add gamma radiation and go Hulk. Hulk smash breaks windows and breaking windows is good for economic activity.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:16 | 3333979 new guy
new guy's picture

There is no task which you can give to government that they will not FUCK UP.

Let me repeat that slowly for our learning impaired friends.


any questions

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:29 | 3334022 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

They are really good at two things, and they rarely fuck them up:

1) Killing people

2) Stealing from people

Paragons of efficiency.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:24 | 3334002 RazvanM
RazvanM's picture

Yes, sure. Europe should cook the books about inflation - and if not suitable redefine it. Well, it's already happening. Europe should provide free money for fraudsters to cheat everybody with impunity. Already happening.

Maybe Europe should buy itself some proeminent economists to praise its performance? Because I doubt you can find any hawks in countries like Greece, France, Italy, Spain, UK.


The last time I checked the official US statistics about food stamps, there were around 50 milion recipients. It's quite a recovery, isn't it? Well, I guess the US oligarchy has recovered to pre-2007 levels - so we have a balance.


One question: what makes you think that US "have found traction for a recovery"?

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:31 | 3334030 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

You libbies always pat yourselves on the back for temporarily "saving" US from the damage that YOU caused.

Your logic is similar to the following:

"Meat Hammer, I pushed your car off a cliff but I brought you a bicycle because gas is expensive and pollutes the air"

"WTF!  Now I'm going to be late for work and I'll probably get fired, dick."

"It's the new normal.  We're calling employers and letting them know.  They're not happy about it, but we told them that if they reject it, they'll go to jail.  It's better for everyone if we just control everything to, you know, make the progressive change that we need a bit easier."

"Fuck you, I want my car back, you bearded freak!"

"It's destroyed.  Your name calling shows how uneducated you are."

"I'm going to tell everyone what you did and urge them to reject bicycles and go back to cars."

"You will be the cause of the collapse of the bicycle industry.  It's so big now that you will cause tremendous pain and suffering if you brainwash people into accepting old relics, like cars, and the cycling industry fails.  Frankly, you sound like a right-wing extremist, and that should scare people."

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 05:36 | 3334771 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

The only thing worse than 2 liberals is 3 conservatives.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 22:29 | 3334328 petolo
petolo's picture

"and Europe used austerity and have slipped".....and Krugman have not so good grasp on U.S. grammar.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 23:36 | 3334457 nightshiftsucks
nightshiftsucks's picture

You know you fat fuck Krugman I fantasize about how I would kill you.I think only the best for you,the Chinese water torture test but instead of water I would use HF acid. FUCK YOU PIG

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 01:31 | 3334602 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

Interesting how the U.S. used correct fiscal and monetary policy - up until the sequester - and have found traction for a recovery, and Europe used austerity and have slipped further into a depression.



The Euros have out printed bernanke enough to make the little elf look like a a good steward of the money supply--and the Euros are still deflating and Bernanke will lose at inflating as well-

Mr Market has spoken..


Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:27 | 3333838 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

......"we need a graceful ausfarht"


There is no graceful way to fart.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:08 | 3333955 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

It's a definite plus if they aren't runny, or bloody though.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 19:29 | 3333845 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

All debt will be paid. One way or another.

Either by the borrower, or by the lender.

Either with pennies worth dollars, or with dollars worth pennies.

It will be paid.

Get ready to pay up.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 20:30 | 3334029 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Don't forget blood... they also accept blood.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 23:55 | 3334478 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

What, no debt Jubilee? But it says so in the Bible... every 7 years, right?

Most recent case: GM, 2009.

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