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Europe Does It Again: Cyprus Depositor Haircut "Bailout" Turns Into Saver "Panic", Frozen Assets, Bank Runs, Broken ATMs

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Europe has done it again.

Late last night, after markets closed for the weekend, following an extended discussion the European finance ministers announced their "bailout" solution for Russian oligarch depositor-haven Cyprus: a €13 billion bailout (Europe's fifth) with a huge twist: the implementation of what has been the biggest taboo in European bailouts to date - the  impairment of depositors, and a fresh, full blown escalation in the status quo's war against savers everywhere.

Specifically, Cyprus will impose a levy of 6.75% on deposits of less than €100,000 - the ceiling for European Union account insurance, which is now effectively gone following this case study - and 9.9% above that. The measures will raise €5.8 billion, Dutch Finance Minister Jeroen Dijsselbloem, who leads the group of euro-area ministers, said.

But it doesn't stop there: a partial "bail-in" of junior bondholders is also possible, as for the first time ever the entire liability structure of a European bank - even if it is a Cypriot bank - is open season for impairments. The logical question: why here, and why now? And what happens when the Cypriot bank run that has taken the country by storm this morning spreads everywhere else, now that the scab over Europe's biggest festering wound is torn throughout the periphery as all the other PIIGS realize they too are expendable on the altar of mollifying voters and investors in the other countries that make up Europe's disunion.

Bloomberg's take on the sacrifice of Cyprus' savers:

Officials have struggled to find an agreement that would rescue Cyprus, which accounts for just half of a percent of the euro region’s economy, without unsettling investors in larger countries and sparking a new round of market contagion. Policy makers began meeting at 5 p.m. yesterday in a hastily convened gathering, seeking to overcome differences on bondholder losses while financial markets were closed.

 

“Further measures concern the increase of the withholding tax on capital income, a restructuring and recapitalisation of banks, an increase of the statutory corporate income tax rate and a bail-in of junior bondholders,” according to a communique released by ministers after the talks. It didn’t specify whether bank or sovereign bond holders could be affected.

 

The European Central Bank will use its existing facilities to make funds available to Cypriot banks as needed to counter potential bank runs. Depositors will receive bank equity as compensation.

 

Finance Minister Michael Sarris said the plan was the “least onerous” of the options Cyprus faced to stay afloat.

 

“It’s not a pleasant outcome, especially of course for the people involved,” said Sarris. The Cypriot parliament will convene tomorrow to vote on legislation needed for the bailout.

Needless to say, the locals are delighted:

In the coastal town of Larnaca, where irate depositors queued early to withdraw money from cash machines, co-op credit societies that are normally open on Saturdays stayed closed.

 

"I'm extremely angry. I worked years and years to get it together and now I am losing it on the say-so of the Dutch and the Germans," said British-Cypriot Andy Georgiou, 54, who returned to Cyprus in mid-2012 with his savings.

 

"They call Sicily the island of the mafia. It's not Sicily, it's Cyprus. This is theft, pure and simple," said a pensioner.

For the real response, look to Russia:

The island's bailout had repeatedly been delayed amid concerns from other EU states that its close business relations with Russia, and a banking system flush with Russian cash, made it a conduit for money-laundering.

 

"My understanding is that the Russian government is ready to make a contribution with an extension of the loan and a reduction of the interest rate," said the EU's top economic official, Olli Rehn.

 

Almost half of [Cyprus'] depositors are believed to be non-resident Russians, but most of those queuing on Saturday at automatic teller machines to pull out cash appeared to be Cypriots.

While "saving", pardon the pun, yet another insolvent country merely has the intent of keeping it in the Eurozone, and thus preserving Europe's doomed monetary block and bank equity for a little longer, this idiotic plan will achieve two things: i) infuriate not just Russians but very wealthy, and very trigger-happy Russians. The revenge of Gazpromia will be short and swift, and we certainly would not want to be Europeans next winter when the average heating level of Western European will depend on the whims of Russian natural gas pipeline traffic; ii) start a wave of bank runs first in Cyprus and soon everywhere else that has the potential of being the next Cyrpus.

Sure enough, here come the bank runs:

While the tax on deposits will hurt wealthy Russians with money in Cypriot banks, it will also sting ordinary citizens. Some ATMs in the country have run out of cash, Erotokritos Chlorakiotis, general manager of the Cooperative Central Bank, told state-run CYBC.

Forzen assets and "national bank holidays" are baaaaack:

Funds to pay the levy were frozen in accounts immediately, ECB Executive Board Member Joerg Asmussen said. The levy will be assessed before Cypriot banks reopen on March 19 after a March 18 national holiday. Sarris said electronic transfers will also be limited until then.

Europe's response: this is a unique situation. Just like the Greek bailout was unique;  just like the Irish and Portuguese bailouts were unique;  just like the bailout of Spanish banks was unique.

“As it is a contribution to the financial stability of Cyprus, it seems just to ask a contribution of all deposit holders,” Dijsselbloem said, noting the country’s financial industry was five times the size of its economy. The plan includes “unique measures” that address the “exceptional nature” of Cyprus and show “inflexible commitment to financial stability and the integrity of the euro area.”

Curiously, even everyone's favorite liar, former Eurogroup president, Jean-Claude Juncker, has a warning that this "bailout" is the worst thing Europe could have done:

Skeptics including Luxembourg’s Jean-Claude Juncker had said that imposing investor losses in Cyprus risked reigniting the financial crisis that has so far pushed five of the euro zone’s 17 members to seek aid. Last year, the euro area took what officials called a unique step to ask Greek bondholders to absorb losses.

But fear not: Europe has promised this absolute resolution taboo won't repeat itself...

When asked if a deposit assessment could be ruled out for future rescues, Rehn said in an interview: “It can and there is no concrete case where it should be considered.”

... Until it does repeat itself of course - after all the fundamental problem for Europe has never been resolved: the continent is still broke, and it still is running out of good, unencumbered assets (which as being repledged by the banking oligarchy) with every passing day.

Now the only thing unknown is Russia's response:

Corporate tax rates in Cyprus will rise to 12.5 percent to 10 percent as part of the deal, Dijsselbloem said. Rehn told reporters that Russia, whose banks have loaned as much as $40 billion to Cypriot companies of Russian origin, would ease terms on its existing loans to Cyprus as the rescue unfolds. Cyprus’s finance minister is scheduled to fly to Moscow on March 20.

What is known, however is that Cypriots have taken the news in stride.... and to their local ATM machine, which sadly is showing the following message: "Your transaction has been cancelled due to a technical issue. This ATM cannot complete withdrawals at this time" (courtesy of Yannis Mouzakis).

It didn't take long before the Cyrpus Cooperative bank issued a statement saying "some ATMs run out of cash" - by some they likely mean all as the entire country is now gripped in a full force depositor run.

Some other snapshots of what is currently happening in Cyrpus, where locals are using excavators if not to force the ATMs into "compliance" then to block bank entrances out of blind fury. From Philenews:

Indignant citizen who has the testimony of the Cooperative Credit Society Kyperoundas, cut the morning the entrance of the branch of the SEA, located on Avenue Nikos and Despina Pattichi in Limassol.

 

He said he believes that deceived by the assurances that the relevant deposits are insured citizens and decided how to express his protest, parking the excavator outside the entrance of the branch of SEA

 

And more from iefimeirda:

With the first light of day after the unprecedented decision to the Eurogroup on the terms of the Memorandum of Agreement and the taxation of savings, hundreds of people flocked to Cyprus stores credit cooperatives Larnaca to withdraw their deposits.

With the opening of stores found they could not withdraw all their money, because the electronic system of credit cooperatives was not working. And when it became possible, writes the Daily Cyprus, the system seemed to finally hit the appropriate amount of the new tax, which provoked strong reactions. Even after the government ordered the stores eventually closed.

 

At the same time, according to information or ATMs of banks give no money so that there is a huge inconvenience.

 

After lunch return to Cyprus President Papadopoulos Nikos Anastasiadis from Brussels in the morning reached political agreement on the rescue of the economy, while in the meantime the Presidential prepares emergency meeting of ministers of the government.

 

According to all the information, will this weekend be submitted and voted on bills in the form of urgency, before the banks opened Tuesday morning.

 

In the text of the agreement, with the characteristic title "We caught napping," the website says Sigma Live Nicosia agreed terms "under threat of closing banks."  painful Describing the agreement, Sigma relies on sources from Brussels you speak of night thriller and roll jams, and the Cypriot delegation warned even withdrawal from the negotiations.

Congratulations Cyprus savers - you were just betrayed by both your politicians, and by Europe - sorry, but you are the "creeping impairments" in the game known as European bankruptcy. And so is anywhere between 6.75% and 9.9% of your money, which you were foolish enough to keep with your banks (where at least you were compensated with a savings yield of... 0%).

More importantly, as of this morning Europe has finally grasped that there is a 6.75% to 9.9% premium to holding physical cash in your mattress rather than having it stored with your local friendly insolvent bank.

Luckily Cyrpus is so "small" what just happened there will never happen anywhere else: after all in Europe nobody has ever heard of "setting an example". Or so the thinking among Europe's unthinking political elite goes.

And congratulations Europe: just when people almost believed you things are "fixed" you go ahead and prove to the world that you are as disunified (because size doesn't matter in a true union), as confused, as stupid and as broke as ever. 

 

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Sat, 03/16/2013 - 10:36 | 3335011 Colonel Walter ...
Colonel Walter E Kurtz's picture

Is this the beginning of the end?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 10:37 | 3335016 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

The Shit Storm Cometh.........

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 10:39 | 3335019 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

21st century-equivalent Franz Ferdinand event?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 11:00 | 3335058 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Credit Anstalt 1931

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 11:02 | 3335068 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

 

"Aaaaaand, it's gone..."

 

 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 11:04 | 3335077 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

P.S.: If you don't hold it, you don't own it...

 

 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 11:11 | 3335088 spastic_colon
spastic_colon's picture

6.75% - 9.00% seems a pretty cheap way to launder money when everyone else around the world is charging much more

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 11:57 | 3335148 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

NO ONE should have ALL of their money as electrons in the bank.  Everyone, as is possible, should keep some 3 months of FIAT$ at home for just this kind of thing.

 

And of course, everyone with children should buy gold, yesterday best, today OK, tomorrow it might be all gone.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 12:05 | 3335208 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

In the US, I have three banks. I have multiple safe deposit boxes. I have a safe at home. I got cash and metal spread all around.

Best not to pool everything in one place.

As far as balances go, I keep a cushion (guns, rice, cash, and coin) and vorociously pay off debts. I hope to turn the corner this year and go from shrinking the money supply through destruction of debt to shrinking the money supply through hoarding out of the bank system.

0% interest? Fine, then I will put that cash in my safe deposit box, thank you very much! If I need a check for a large balance, I can pull cash (in bank) and get a certified check on the spot for a small fee. I only keep enough balance to float my monthly finances, such as rent, food, auto, living expenses, etc.

Fuck you Ben.

Regards,

Cooter

P.S. You can get a small number of free pages from BankRegData so be sure to check out your bank to make sure they are properly managed. They limit views by IP I believe, so hit the library or work or your friends WiFi if you need more. I found that printing pages to PDF was very helpful since I often ran out of page views when bouncing around.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 12:11 | 3335231 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

An example to us all.  And it takes time to get that far.  Best get started yesterday.  If today, consider getting started to be urgent.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 12:22 | 3335264 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

 

Bitcoin is offering a special on all new accounts from Cyprus:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=153677.0

 

 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 12:57 | 3335389 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Personally, I don't understand what people see in BitCoin. Why would I want to buy electronic money? Seriously?

Regards,

Cooter

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:05 | 3335412 e-recep
e-recep's picture

bitcoin is useful for petty online shopping and for smuggling large sums of money over the borders. but that's it.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:18 | 3335436 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

 

I have some sewn into my clothes linings.....you never know.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 14:29 | 3335628 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I've heard all this before somewhere...... ah, yes, the "crazy" stories my depression-era grandparents used to tell me.  I used to think they were broken, hopelessly misguided people.  Now I am glad I listened to those stories.  Never thought of the stories being an "instruction manual" until recent times!

None of what's being said here would come as news to them, by the way (except BitCoin).  They lived it, we may be about to.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:16 | 3335748 akak
akak's picture

All this indignation over bank deposit confiscations in Cyprus, righteous as it is, makes me laugh, when one considers that a 7 or 10% annual haircut on cash and ALL fiat-denominated savings is ROUTINE in many if not most nations, due to the confiscatory nature of government-induced currency depreciation, aka "inflation".  But who ever riots or blocks the entrance to a bank because of just a little rising prices?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:39 | 3335787 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

Boris, what say average Russian oligarch of 10% confiscation of Russian monies by continent of Europe?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:46 | 3335824 flacon
flacon's picture

Flat out theft this way is much more honest than inflation. At least even simpletons (aka Ph Dee graduates from Ivy League universities) can understand it. 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:49 | 3335832 akak
akak's picture

Which is why almost all modern governments generally prefer the stealth theft of currency debasement (aka 'inflation') to the 'honest' theft of simple and open confiscation.  But make no mistake, confiscation takes place in either case.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:45 | 3336210 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Some 'bailout'! 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 20:46 | 3336732 HobbyFarmer
HobbyFarmer's picture

If depositors lose 10% of their bank-stored wealth, will banks be forced to cut outstanding mortgage balances, car loans, etc by an equal amount? 

Or all not all animals created equal on this farm?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 23:32 | 3337174 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

Let me check my handy chart… Cyprus = Pissed Russians = People with AK-47s

Long 7.62x39!

 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 23:53 | 3337209 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Hope the Russians have better luck finding ammo than the USA. We're having quite a hard time finding 7.62X51 and when we do its been extremely expensive.

Miffed:-)

 

 

 

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 13:55 | 3338843 PrintemDano
PrintemDano's picture

Eureka!   Some animals are more equal than others,

                           Love,   Napoleon

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 07:39 | 3337502 imbtween
imbtween's picture

In this case they're doing both.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 21:21 | 3336828 yatikto
yatikto's picture

Russia changed their head of central bank last week.  Someone needs to do a chart of who is getting screwed the most because of this.

 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:00 | 3336069 GreatUncle
GreatUncle's picture

There is a subtle difference and how they control the game.

You lose through inflation but justify it with a wage rise even if it is less than the increase you pay through inflation.

For this case you can definitely say there is inflation guess what though?

YOU ARE NOT GETTING A PAY RISE TO PAY FOR IT.

 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 22:02 | 3336946 prains
prains's picture

I know

 

 

ZH should start a bank, it might actually work, on second thought truth doesn't sell/work/profit/help/

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 22:26 | 3337020 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

dont forget,  inflation  raises the price of gold, and you pay capital gains tax on that  raise in price?  you get taxed on avoiding their theft.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 09:02 | 3337600 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Not for Widowmaker, he bass fishes with gold eagles.

It's expensive but they love the stuff!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:05 | 3336264 Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

You could stick a USB stick with your wallet.dat in your ass but the TSA groping specialists will still probably find it.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 21:12 | 3336805 e-recep
e-recep's picture

they dont confiscate usb flashes or microsdhcs, do they? besides it would be hard for them to spot the hidden folder within the enrypted truecrypt folder.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 21:29 | 3336849 TMLutas
TMLutas's picture

Actually, if you're crossing a border, they can and do. The only question open at the moment is how long they have the right to hold on to it. 

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 01:23 | 3337315 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

With a long-enough password, they can hold it till the heat-death of the Universe, and still not know what's in the encrypted files.  Besides, you can always email the bitcoin package to your own email address(es), and not have to lug any jumpdrive(s) around.  Just DO NOT forget that password!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 22:05 | 3336953 Jeff_NH
Jeff_NH's picture

Well, you can use it to pay for indoor rock climbing, buy books, buy candy, buy silver and pay your kids allowance...At least that is what I've used it for.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:09 | 3335413 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

This is what governments should do - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:21 | 3335447 giggler123
giggler123's picture

You know this is a test, if it works for them, roll it out everywhere.  It's their opportunity to directly steal rather than use the stealth of inflation.  Look at the debt, it can't be paid anywhere, so its gonna happen before they print to the roof in other places to, if they can control the fallout in this test subject, whos knows, it might give them the balls to just apply it to euroland + others

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:09 | 3335733 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

+1

"...why here, and why now?"

Because they can, and because there's no one to stop them.  All your base are belong to us.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:55 | 3335815 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

@giggler -

I agree with you. This is part of the destruction of the central planners (even in this slow motion demise, I have found the crumbling to be spectacular).  They think they can plan, predict and control everything.  They can't, so while I agree that this is very much a test of the Emergency Confiscation System, what they think they control (panicked, angry and hungry people especially), they do not.  One of these times what will end up being "tested" everywhere is panic and supply line failure.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:55 | 3336384 unununium
unununium's picture

Simple, my dear boy.

Because the BAC buyback announcement was yesterday.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 04:46 | 3337414 The Heart
The Heart's picture

"You know this is a test, if it works for them, roll it out everywhere."

Sure does save on paperwork. Just skip the middleman of business and go directly to the bank. Now you know why everyone's finances are being investigated everywhere.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:23 | 3335453 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Thanks for your input, fascist.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:42 | 3335488 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

Come and get it, moron !

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:46 | 3335500 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

It should be renamed, Bank of Gyprus.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:49 | 3335506 auric1234
auric1234's picture

Wait, wasn't this a worthless metal? "barbarous relic" right? Why bother confiscating it?

Ah, deep inside, even the worst keynesian scum can tell real money when they see it.

 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 14:17 | 3335580 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Hoarding gold stalls the economy; only firms that use it for an industrial purpose should be allowed to have it.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 14:33 | 3335641 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

And taxing savers on their deposits spurs economic growth tremendously, Douchebag.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 14:41 | 3335665 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

I do not think that overt austerity is beneficial, nor did I say I thought it.  Olli Rehn is using moronic policy measures in hopes to achieve growth; his measures will fail.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:16 | 3335739 Element
Element's picture

The funniest thing I keep seeing is the endless parade of twats from the EU Commission who keep trotting out every day or three to say the EU is about to see a bums-rush of new green-shoots, when all the stats that matter keep revealing a frightful real-economic implosion, all over the place.

The second funniest thing is the Global MSM keep reporting that muck as credible eekCONomical news, rather than the plainly hopeless, sad errant drivel that it is.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:41 | 3335806 ebear
ebear's picture

Man, where have you been?  We're not hoarding gold, we're hoarding tungsten.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:57 | 3335853 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

You really have become a full time troll on here.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 20:46 | 3336728 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

He already is.  He's like MDB, minus the sense of humor.

You have to admit, he's nothing if not consistent.  If I can finish his thought for him, it would be "if Cyprus had the ability to print their own currency, as the US Federal Reserve does, this could have been avoided."

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 13:24 | 3338738 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Hi Paul,

If growth is defined in monetary terms and money is debt, please explain how exponential growth of debt is sustainable into eternity.

If money (debt) exponential growth is not sustainable into eternity, then WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE EXPONENTIAL MONEY (DEBT) GROWTH FAILS?

TIA...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:38 | 3336005 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I'll give him a +1 for creative trolling.

He isn't a MDB, but he isn't bad. 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 14:57 | 3335705 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Hoarding gold stalls the economy

Forget stalling...

Destruction of trust will DESTROY an economy faster than anything...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:04 | 3335872 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Up arrow this post here (I could not because of the quote text bug).

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 14:57 | 3335706 prains
prains's picture

Kruglitler

 

Is your gov't NOT hoarding gold???? too such an extent it can manipulate the entire gold market??

You talk so much out of both sides of your mouth it LEAKING OUT YOUR ASS!!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 21:42 | 3335757 akak
akak's picture

Q: How can you tell Krudman's ass from his mouth?

A: One of them routinely spews shit slightly less vile than the other orifice.

 

(My bet is on the ass.)

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 21:57 | 3336937 prains
prains's picture

love the fake kruggies on ZH, it's like speed bag practice

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:55 | 3335839 r3phl0x
r3phl0x's picture

US govt hoarding of oil stalls the economy; only firms that use it for an industrial purpose should be allowed to have it.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 20:02 | 3336615 new guy
new guy's picture

When governments buy gold it is called economics. When people buy gold it is called hoarding.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 21:29 | 3336845 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

wrong dipshit.  We are not on the gold standard.  Therefore, buying gold is stimulitive.  It takes fiat out of my wallet and gives it to the gold dealer, who then spends it.  Gold in my closet is not deflationary.  Cash in my closet is.  Even the real Paul Krugman knows that. Hack.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 08:09 | 3337534 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Hey asshole-give the new guy a brake. Not everyone is as cultured as you.

 Your specialty is probably euthenasia right?

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:00 | 3339905 auric1234
auric1234's picture

But, but, I thought you could fix everything by just printing paper!

 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:53 | 3335513 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

Governments can decide anything they want, but it's up to their citizens to follow.

If a law is too stupid or too oppressive, it will just be "avoided" or ignored altogether.

That's why you're a moron...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:54 | 3335520 venom
venom's picture

Is this really the one and only Dr. Paul Krugman?  Or is it an internet troll?  One in the same, I guess.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 14:59 | 3335711 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Is there any real meaningful difference between the two?  Is that what you're getting at?  Well done!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 20:56 | 3336767 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Venom, seriously, dude, do you THINK this is really Dr. Paul Krugman because that's his screen name and it has his picture next to it?  Really?  Not once has he even said "yes, goddamit, I really am Dr. Paul Krugman!"  Do you think the real one would have the time or inclication to troll ZH all day?  C'mon, you're making us look bad just by asking.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:29 | 3335570 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1 Dr Krugman.  You get 'em girl!

EDIT:

I just called Krugman a girl.  Is that wrong?  Maybe so.  OK, Dr, go get 'em, femme fatale!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:06 | 3335882 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I love you DoChen but I am a woman and I am offended.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:24 | 3335967 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

MsCreant!  There is something going on re the good Dr, that is why I wrote it the way I did.  No offense meant, but no clues given either!

Secrets are fun!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 19:38 | 3336515 dcohen
dcohen's picture

Thx, but my name is DCohen

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 14:17 | 3335582 oldschool
oldschool's picture

Dr. Pavlov rings the bell again.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:56 | 3336237 berlinjames02
berlinjames02's picture

I'm amazed anyone listens to Krugman. If he was such a great eCONomist, he would have forecasted and profited from the past 2 bubble created by his CB buddies. Bob Shiller has done that twice and he doesn't have a Nobel! They should rename the Nobel to the 'Useless Idiot Award'. Gore, Obama. Throw Bernanke into that camp too.

Seriously. It doesn't take a genius to recognize a bubble. It takes a genius to convince himself that a bubble doesn't exist because it doesn't fit into their Socialist paradigm. I love all the Monday Morning Quarterbacking from that fuck-tard.

The prudent thing is to do the OPPOSITE of whatever Krugman says. I hope TSHTF to ruin that idiot and destroy whatever weath he might have.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 19:00 | 3336395 spastic_colon
spastic_colon's picture

if you were the real krugman you would be able to figure out who the real Tyler(s) is/are especially with your "key to the world" Nobel...but since you are a two bit troll, no one here should pay you any attention anymore.  I imagine the real facist krugman has better things to do (although it would explain alot if he didn't).

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 04:41 | 3337411 Svendblaaskaeg
Sat, 03/16/2013 - 14:42 | 3335668 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Watch the bitcoin exchange rate, you'll see why.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 14:52 | 3335692 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

I don't understand what people see in BitCoin

Just keep scratchin' your head and assuming that it is just a bunch of foolish and crazy people, unable to discern much of anything.  Don't let the fact that the authorities take Bitcoin very seriously enter into your thinking -- it'll be easier that way.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:15 | 3335747 DosZap
DosZap's picture

BitCoin

Is easier to lose than fiat,just shut off the net and all access to it is gone.

And before its over you can bet your arse that the IRS already considers it tax evasion.

Like we say here 10k times,if you do not hold it you do not own it.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:08 | 3335889 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I agree with you. If someone wants to gamble to fuck with the system, get in, get out, I could see it as useful. I don't trust it either, but it may live for a while before it dies. Might be an interesting tool in the war chest, if you get what I mean.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:23 | 3336146 knukles
knukles's picture

I wonder with that sentiment of confiscation he may not be disappeared by a middle eastern cabbie in Manhattan... Not suggestin', just thinkin' ...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 22:51 | 3337075 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

When the net is shut off, the access to a lot more than Bitcoin is gone.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 02:50 | 3337362 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Oh JUST shut off the entire internet in the entire world.  Forever.  Should be easy.  Yeah.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:28 | 3339794 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

This should help people who are afflicted with the fear that the internet switch will get flipped to "off" when the going gets tough:

http://blog.icann.org/2007/11/there-are-not-13-root-servers/

Not to mention that crippling the net would pretty much end all commerce and finance.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 23:40 | 3337192 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Because Bitcoin has all the qualities of a fantastic money:  it is resilient, durable, extremely divisible, fungible, instantly transferrable to anyone in the world instantly, impossible to counterfeit, impossible to steal using brute force, weightless, and limited in supply.

Gold and silver, while good stores of value, suffer from a few deficiencies:  1.  They can easily be stolen by governments using brute force.  2.  There is an unknown quantity of them because they can be discovered in nature.  3.  They are heavy, and not instantly transferrable to anyone in the world.  4.  They can be detected at checkpoints by guards/troops/police.  5.  Special testing equipment is required to determine if the metal is pure, and how much it weighs.  6.  The metal isn't easily divisible and exchangable for everyday purchases.

So you see why Bitcoin is superior.

And yes, I've heard the "all it takes is an EMP or a power-outage!" argument a million times.  It's misguided.  Bitcoins are stored on the blockchain, which is held on computer hard disks all across the world.  So unless governments manage to destroy each and every hard disk in the world containing the blockchain, they can't stop Bitcoin.  They can only temporarily inhibit it.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 08:45 | 3337580 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

 

impossible to steal using brute force

There we go again...

if I point a gun to your face (or your kid's, wife's), will you give me your bitcoins or not? And if your gov threatens you with say, RICO charges, do you give them up or not?

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 13:46 | 3338800 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Nope.  I'd just deny owning any Bitcoins.  They can't prove I own any.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:47 | 3340088 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

You're not assuming they'd come after you because they'd know?

Mon, 03/18/2013 - 11:29 | 3342323 Long_Xau
Long_Xau's picture

I wouldn't. Before they threaten somebody they already know either that they are going to kill or that they are not. Giving them anything is extremely unlikely to change their mind for the better, unless you fool them that you are going to become one of them. (they might judge that taking your soul is worth it, which would be an error, either because you are just fooling them and not actually going do start doing what they are doing or because if you do start doing what they are doing you would have no soul). If anything, not giving them anything 1. could even discourage them, but most importantly 2. not giving them anything will hurt them financially, and finances are after all the only reason they can still do what they are doing.

Mon, 03/18/2013 - 11:32 | 3342337 Long_Xau
Long_Xau's picture

.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 23:58 | 3337215 Long_Xau
Long_Xau's picture

When you want to buy something and the sellers asks you for bitcoins - then you might want to buy some.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:01 | 3336077 CH1
CH1's picture

Bitcoin is offering a special on all new accounts from Cyprus

There is no Bitcoin entity.

There are no Bitcoin "accounts"!

What you are pointing to is an exchanger.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 00:52 | 3337281 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

The Depositors caused the problems (obviously) so they should pay, right.

 

 

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 08:38 | 3337567 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Just answer this: which exchange would let you convert your 100k € worth of savings to bitcoins in an emergency? Because Mt. Gox wouldn't...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 19:17 | 3336450 Dealyer Turdin
Dealyer Turdin's picture

The rice can be arsenic-loaded.  Don't forget.  Cilantro Smoothies or somethin'.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 21:30 | 3336855 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

My concern would be safety deposit box access denied in the event of the SHTF.  Or worse, having 'new' regulations governing how much gold or currency one could keep in a SDbox and having to open with a bank rep watching over your shoulder.

Mon, 03/18/2013 - 08:39 | 3341830 skipjack
skipjack's picture

I gave you a down arrow for your stupidity - safe deposit boxes ???? lololol Are you kidding me ?

 

Clearly you never read any history.  Roosevelt disallowed anyone from removing anything from safe deposit boxes unless there was a revenue officer present...to confiscate your gold.

 

Seriously, what part of OUT OF THE BANK do people misunderstand ?  Don't leave more than what is required to cover your immediate checks in the bank.  Get a REAL safe, fireproof, and embed it in concrete behind a fake wall,  Cash every check as soon as it comes in and use money orders, fuck the banks and their "certified" checks.  This serves three purposes - it denies the bank free money, it denies them fees, AND it keeps it safe in your hands.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 12:49 | 3335367 BlackMagician
BlackMagician's picture

Screw holding ANY fiat!..a short trip to the coin shop (defacto bank) and I will trade for their fiat...thank you very much.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:37 | 3335481 Town Crier
Town Crier's picture

Bank equity as compensa...? But I don't want to buy your bank!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 20:59 | 3336777 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

yes you do, now get back in line!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 11:43 | 3335164 Matt
Matt's picture

This is a tax on deposits; they are still paying the inflation tax, and all other taxes, they just have a new "one time" tax on top of all the rest.

It's a good thing Sweden is going towards all digital money, so that bank runs there will be impossible and deposit taxes will be unavaoidable.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 12:22 | 3335261 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Most small depositors have on average about 2,500.00 Euros ($3,250.00) in the bank. A 6.75% one-time deposit tax amounts to about $220.00 on this amount.  

A sizeable chunk for a small saver - yes, but small enough that the majority will accept it with some grunbling.

Back to business as usual. The big problem lies with the large off-shore depositors from Russia, who don't take kindly to this sort of "white collar" theft of their ill-gotten gains. Pay back will be a bitch!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:34 | 3335476 LeisureSmith
LeisureSmith's picture

Tough luck for the law abiding depositor.... the one's who can bite back gets a pass. http://www.flickr.com/photos/79201873@N08/8562905712/in/photostream

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 14:54 | 3335701 ambrosiac
ambrosiac's picture

Oh please. Let all those Russian pimps and black-marketeers reading the menus (printed in Russian) at Limassol restaurants leave a golden Rolex or two behind. As if 10% were such a scathing loss. Truth be told, it's not the money, it's the black eye. But before they start delivering people's testicles in tidy little packages they ought to stop and think -- where else are they going to find such convenient parking and laundering service?!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 21:21 | 3336826 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

The EU is messing with some of the richest (and meanest) Russians. I think some of the EU ministers will soon discover the true meaning of "Sucks to be you." 

"The list of Russian investors in Cyprus is almost identical with that of the country's richest men. Together with a partner, Roman Abramovich, known internationally as the owner of some of the world's largest private yachts and London's Chelsea Football Club, controls his Evraz holding company through a Cyprus-based company, Lanebrook. The financial magnate and former presidential candidate Mikhail Prokhorov, who owns mining companies in Russia, registered Intergeo Management Ltd. in Cyprus in 2008. Magnate Vladimir Lisin, worth an estimated $15.9 billion, controls more than two-thirds of his most important company, a steel mill in Novolipetsk, through the Cypriot company Fletcher Holding Ltd.

Owners of other companies registered in Cyprus include Lisin's competitor Alexei Mordashov (worth $15.3 billion), nickel tycoon Vladimir Potanin ($14.5 billion) and oil baron Vagit Alekperov ($13.5 billion). There is also Suleyman Kerimov ($6.5 billion), a dubious investor who was interested in buying a three-percent stake in Deutsche Bank in 2008, and Internet czar and friend of Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev Alisher Usmanov, who topped the list of Russia's richest men last year at $18.1 billion. Yelena Baturina ($1.1 billion), the wife of former Moscow Mayor Yury Luzhkov, who has been accused of corruption by the Kremlin, has also allegedly moved some of her assets through Cyprus."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/tax-haven-reputation-plagues-...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:07 | 3335418 e-recep
e-recep's picture

i hope the swedes are not that dumb.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:08 | 3335420 chubbar
chubbar's picture

Glad to see you put "one time" in quotes. I'd never trust these fuckers again after this stunt, not that I trust them now. Don't think for a second this isn't coming to the U.S. soon enough.

The best thing to occur out of this should be the obvious danger of having a currency made exclusively of 1's and 0's. It gives gov't absolute control over fucking savers on a whim (aside from outright debasement).

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:52 | 3335510 auric1234
auric1234's picture

It's a good thing Sweden is going towards all digital money, so that bank runs there will be impossible and deposit taxes will be unavaoidable.

You think so? Then you fallback to the FIAT run. Instead of people queuing at the ATM, they will queue at the coin shop.

 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:51 | 3335838 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

Bingo. In the marketplace, you can't hammer a nail without another popping up.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 23:57 | 3337211 Matt
Matt's picture

If you buy gold with a debit or credit card, the money just gets transfered from your account to the coin shop's account; this does not have the same adverse affect on the fractional reserve banking system as taking out paper bills. You still escape the system, but the banks are not hurt.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:22 | 3335450 unrulian
unrulian's picture

"just like the Irish and Portuguese bailouts were unique; just like the bailout of Spanish banks was unique."

theft never has been or ever will be...unique.

 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:52 | 3336378 GeoffreyT
GeoffreyT's picture

I know you were being tongue-in-cheek, but the laundering haircut is ALREADY PAID by the time cash hits the bank. So this is a 9.9% haircut AFTER the laundry bill.

Cyprus' political-parasite class just guaranteed that a significant contributor to its capital account is reduced to a trickle.

 

Helluva job, parasites.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 19:38 | 3336513 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

Yes, this smells of a conspiracy towards some larger end than a simple prolongation of the Euro's demise.  Methinks there is something bigger being engineered here.  They apparently want bank runs, but why?

 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 22:42 | 3337056 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

 

 

Germany's ready to throw the towel in on the Euro currency?

Britain has proven that you don't need the Euro to be a trading partner.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 01:18 | 3337312 TumblingDice
TumblingDice's picture

Possession is 9/10ths of the law.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 14:10 | 3338913 PrintemDano
PrintemDano's picture

Law???

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 01:26 | 3337317 resurger
resurger's picture

werd

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 08:14 | 3337540 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

Tell Putin that, it is rumoured he had money stashed in Cyprus.

I have a mental image of Putin spitting blood... lol.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 11:56 | 3335194 rfwashere
rfwashere's picture

"Aaaaaand, it's gone..."

Here's a short video describing what's going to happen to 'savers' that keep their money in the bank 'for safekeeping'.

All you need to know in less than 2 minutes: http://vimeo.com/43762138

 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 14:37 | 3335654 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

hahahaha

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:04 | 3335724 prains
prains's picture

TESTING.... TESTING.....

 

RELEASE THE MINI-KRAKEN

 

don't wake the big one, we haven't figured out how to put that one back in it's cage yet. We can't let that one loose until the construction of OLIGARKISTAN is complete, and we're still waiting on parts for all the suspended animation pleasurial units, and the bitchezzzz aren't yet fully compliant.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 19:04 | 3336410 max2205
max2205's picture

I'd like to see who took out all their moneg last week.  Jpm ect john crorzine?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 11:40 | 3335157 FMR Bankster
FMR Bankster's picture

I was still working in the investment management business the sunday night Lehman failed and that was the title of my e-mail to co-workers. Except I said another Credit Anstalt. Didn't get quite that bad in the short run but it was a sh*t storm none the less. Who would leave their money in a bank now?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 12:48 | 3335363 irishlink
irishlink's picture

So much for European Union . We have had 5 totally different bail outs so far. Eurocrats stumbling to figure out each very different countries problems. Also this great central planning from Brussells has been an abject failure. Years of overpaid MEP s who decree stupid rules and laws that have destroyed jobs and a total failure in preventing corruption , property bubbles, creative acounting etc in EU member states. END the experiment before we sink into war or an even greater depression.

Mon, 03/18/2013 - 14:28 | 3343526 Nostradalus
Nostradalus's picture

Ahhhh, i remember it well. September 14th 2008. Cnbs was in full circus mode, replete with assclowns, pretty women showing cleavage, and sock puppets. oh the good old daze... four and a half years in, and the band plays on.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:21 | 3335946 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

Can we call this a (Global) Depression yet?

I'm sick of the term recession...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:32 | 3336327 Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

The media are not honest enough for that. So this will be a "recovery" forever.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:23 | 3335449 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

Where's the Fucker Corzine?

This take down can be called Corzine Light.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 22:44 | 3337058 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

They should have hired him. A few months later in Brussels ... "oooops, not our fault"

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 14:59 | 3335709 Debeachesand Je...
Debeachesand Jerseyshores's picture

With "Hurricane Force Winds".

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 20:51 | 3336746 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

It sure is coming, an it will be real shitty.  They essentially confiscated a percentage of the depositors money, and then continue to make it hard for them to get their money out of the bank.  What until it comes to the US.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 11:02 | 3335070 Scro
Scro's picture

Hooray!

Let the anarchy begin.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 12:22 | 3335267 Vashta Nerada
Vashta Nerada's picture

This is just Keynesian economics taken to its logical conclusion: if you proles won't spend your money to reflate the economy, we'll do it for you.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:07 | 3335419 machineh
machineh's picture

As night falls in Cyprus, one can envision mobs of Cypriot Kurgmanites, determined to 'restore prosperity' by torching cars and heaving bricks through shop windows.

Think of all the jobs this will create!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:56 | 3335850 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Did the banksters think to close gas stations too?  If not, I hope every bank branch and gov building is torched by monday morning.  What a national holiday that would be.  Quite worth the 10% haircut.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 23:38 | 3337186 HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

I hope every bankster is shot and killed Monday morning.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 11:05 | 3335079 Spider
Spider's picture

Cant confiscate my unbanked gold and silver

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 11:45 | 3335169 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

I wish I could say that, unfortunately I had this very incredibly unlucky boating accident...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 11:56 | 3335192 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

keeping your debt coupon dollars in the insolvent banks of an insolvent country...

americans would never be dumb enough to fall for that....right??????

RIGHT????????????????????????????????????????????????

disclaimer: not me........


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:55 | 3336058 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

Wow dude you are crazy stupid to be boatin with all that gold, silver guns and ammo. I cant believe how many dumazz 0hudgerz keep doing this. People, Just say no to boating and you MIGHT have something for retirement. I feel so sorry for all these individuals that lose everything day after day. I wish i could help, but unfortunately, I dont even have a window to throw it out of.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:11 | 3336280 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

One of these days we're going to put concrete soled shoes on some bankers and send them out boating with these guys... if you think they're good at losing PMs, watch how awesome they are at losing "wealth creators".

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 13:26 | 3335459 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

No they will just shoot you out of spite.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:47 | 3336030 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

well i suppose anything is possible...

but i'll bet real money on my chances and my Benelli....

cheers.....

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:00 | 3335716 Debeachesand Je...
Debeachesand Jerseyshores's picture

Not a good thing to say in the Ditigal Age.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 23:22 | 3337153 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Was just picking up an order at Gainesville this week. I was third in line, there were 8 people in there total while I was there.  In all the visits there prior I hadn't seen more than one other customer in the showroom at a time.  This was 2pm on a Friday...my order took over a week longer to arrive than any other I've placed so far. This is getting nutty...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 11:19 | 3335108 s2man
s2man's picture

No. Cyprus, Spain, Greece, no biggie. But when they start folding in Germany or England, watch out. The dominoes will lead to the U.S. banks.

 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 12:37 | 3335156 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1, but I would say SPAIN is big.  Next domino (a guess!) would be Italy.  A bigger problem.  Then FRANCE.  If/when France goes over the falls, don't wait around for Germany.  Get your money OUT!  Buy your LAST STUFF!  The financial tsunami will hit our shores very quickly after France goes...  

Re preparation: "Your last chance is news from France..."

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 14:40 | 3335661 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

The EU will be dissolved currency-wise by the time France goes.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 15:58 | 3335856 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Or Japan, Dochen.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:27 | 3335976 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

True!

But I can't offhand come up with a snappy rhyme for Japan...

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