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Saxo Bank CEO: "This Is Full-Blown Socialism And I Still Can't Believe It Happened"

Tyler Durden's picture


Authored by Lars Seier Christensen, CEO Saxo Bank; originally posted at his blog at,

It is difficult to describe the weekend bailout package to Cyprus in any other way. The confiscation of 6.75 percent of small depositors' money and 9.9 percent of big depositors' funds is without precedence that I can think of in a supposedly civilised and democratic society. But maybe the European Union (EU) is no longer a civilised democracy?

I heard rumours about this when I visited Limassol last week, but dismissed them as completely outlandish. And yet, here we are. The consequences are unpredictable, but we are clearly looking at a significant paradigm shift.

This is a breach of fundamental property rights, dictated to a small country by foreign powers and it must make every bank depositor in Europe shiver. Although the representatives at the bailout press conference tried to present this as a one-off, they were not willing to rule out similar measures elsewhere - not that it would have mattered much as the trust is gone anyway. It is now difficult to expect any kind of limitation to what measures the Troika and EU might take when the crisis really starts to bite.

If you can do this once, you can do it again. if you can confiscate 10 percent of a bank customer's money, you can confiscate 25, 50 or even 100 percent. I now believe we will see worse as the panic increases, with politicians desperately trying to keep the EUR alive.

Depositors in other prospective bailout countries must be running scared - is it safe to keep money in an Italian, Spanish or Greek bank any more? I dont know, must be the answer. Is it prudent to take the risk? You decide. I fear this will lead to massive capital outflows from weak Eurozone countries, just about the last thing they need right now. Even from the EU as a whole, I suspect, as the banking union is in place in most countries already.

Another open question is what will happen to the huge number of brokerages based in Cyprus? There is about 100 or more FX and other brokers currently operating under the relatively light Cypriot regulation. How will this impact the trustworthiness of these many small institutions? What IS the exact impact on the client deposits they might be holding in Cyprus? Will anyone dare to do business with them going forward?

This is a major, MAJOR game changer and the fallout will be with us for a long time to come. I believe it could be the beginning of the end for the Eurozone as this is an unbelievable blow to the already challenged trust that might be left among investors. Talk about a possible own goal.

Market reaction? it must be very good for gold - and for safe-haven countries like Switzerland, Singapore and economically more healthy non-Euro countries in, for example, Scandinavia. I would think the EUR and associated markets will be undermined by increasing lack of confidence when the full implications become clear for investors.

This is full-blown socialism and I still cannot believe this really happened.

Be careful out there...


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Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:02 | 3335863 patb
patb's picture

better to have a TOBIN Tax.  Tax transactions.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:10 | 3335900 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Civilised democracy??? LOL

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:13 | 3335909 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

End Game. Not even all the private deposits held by the people can cover the losses that the unaccountable bankers generate.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:18 | 3335929 magpie
magpie's picture

Loot everything now as fast as you can...there will be no new credit forthcoming.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:05 | 3336090 flacon
flacon's picture

I really hope it's good for gold and not some lousy excuse to ramp up the USD and squash gold yet again. I'm darn sick of this extended "correction". Same goes for silver. 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:17 | 3336126 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

if you don't own gold as part of your portfolio by now, you're really rather short of an excuse.

form is temporary, class is permanent.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:23 | 3336145 DJ Happy Ending
DJ Happy Ending's picture

This past month has been a great buying opportunity.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:35 | 3336183 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture


CEO Lars Seier Christensen has no idea what socialism is...not surprising as most people, regardless of their title, are totally ignorant.

Junk me all you like but re-distributing wealth from the many to the few is actually a hallmark of corporatism and many others 'isms' but has nothing to do with socialism. 


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:40 | 3336194 Death and Gravity
Death and Gravity's picture

Hes a Randroid. Anything he doesn't like is Socialism, very Ameurrcan of him.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:11 | 3336281 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

10% all at once or shave a little off every month by inject another $85 billion, end result looks pretty similar.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 00:06 | 3337228 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

your point is well taken.  the difference is it is just possible to avoid a "depositor tax" to bail out the failures of bankers: don't have deposits.  inflation of a currency is harder but using precious metals can keep the pain to a minimum.

re: buying opportunities, miners of precious metals have rarely if ever been cheaper to the bullion, especially in what still appears to be a bull market in bullion with very supportive fundamentals.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 00:56 | 3337285 tooktheredpill
tooktheredpill's picture

but but but... where's Draghi? was he at the meeting? didn't he say he would do aaaaaanything to save the euro? Maybe a journo heard it wrong and Draghi is going to add 10% to deposits? I'm sure he is just printing a few billion for the Russian's right now.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 06:27 | 3337455 Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

Earth to ZH ... come in ZH ...

What was the alternative here?

1) Do nothing; let the banks fail; deposit haircut likely greater than what was imposed by the EU/IMF, and the cash would be tied up for months or years meanwhile.

2) Put the entire burden on EU taxpayers.  We love that, right ??

3) Just print Euros.  We love it when Bernanke prints dollars.  Why can't they just print the dam cash !!!

I am surprised they haircut every single Euro, even in small accounts.  It would have been more fair to haircut only balances above some amount, by 20%.  But probably this was negotiated with the Russians, who preferred to put some of the pain on small fish in Cyprus.

NB. remember Bruce Krasting's post of last week that mentioned how Swiss private bankers "tax" black money in double-blind secret accounts by 5% per year, and that is paid happily.  Black money (most of the deposits in Cyprus, be real) expects some expenses.  10% one time is not so far outside the norm.  Especially if they are now allowed to move all the cash to sounder European banks, no questions asked, the Russian mobsters probably think it's a bargain.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 08:13 | 3337539 PMakoi
PMakoi's picture

Good point, but it's still outright theft from savers to pay for the irresponsibility of banksters and governments.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 22:25 | 3337014 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

"Monetary fascism" is the most proper label for the current machine. It is certainly not socialism. There are, however, some aspects of socialism within fascism. Don't allow that to fool you though. Mr. Saxo Bank CEO is one of the top beneficiaries of the current paradigm. I don't know why he is complaining. Is he really too blind to see it?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:47 | 3336197 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

You make a good point, but you really need to ask who originally were the target recipients of said borrowed wealth.

Cyprus run a budget deficit, and have been for years (briefly ran surpluses around 2007), and that's not counting bailouts, etc:

Public debt
€15.042 billion (84.0% of GDP; Q3 2012 est.)[10]
Budget deficit
€1.132 billion (6.3% of GDP; 2011 est.)[11]


Funny how countries with low debt/GDP ratios and deficits under control rarely get into this sort of trouble.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:48 | 3336218 magpie
magpie's picture

They are being punished for buying Greek bonds with Russian money ?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:56 | 3336234 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

reading through cyprus' budgets over the past few years, it would appear that public debts have increased faster than the (nominal) deficits. i guess they might have contracted the greek finance minister to "help" them pretty up the sheets, but perhaps they are kosher.

not sure what you mean though. budget deficits = excessive public spending. investors bought the bonds, and should not be immune to defaults, but that's post-fact.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:56 | 3336236 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

I don't know much about Cyprus economy but based on other 'modern economy' countries the target recipients of gov money are pretty much never the average joe on the street. That's always the claim but not the reality.

Anyone that understands what the Fed is doing can't seriously claim that Bernanke's aims are chiefly to lower unemployment and moderate inflation. 

Public debt in most modern economies is accumulated at the behest of the banks and then any bailouts that come in go to those institutions. Is anyone going to seriously claim that the Greece bailouts are for the common people??

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:02 | 3336248 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

ok, now you have me lost here. i'll drill into the UK budget, because that's the one I'm most comfortable with (living here and all). i'm sure similar (shallow, admittedly) analysis could be performed on the cypriotic budget (or greek, spanish, ...)

Welfare (£207bn), the NHS (£130bn), and education (£91bn) are THE behemoths of the budget. How you can claim this is not money going to the common man is beyond me.

As for creditors wanting to get paid back, that is as said post-fact. The money has been spent. Now the creditors want to be repaid.

But, yes, they should just fucking default already.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:17 | 3336299 Orly
Orly's picture

For instance, JPM carries the US government's EBT program...

Something like that.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:45 | 3336361 James_Cole
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Like I had suggested, on the surface these look pretty reasonably focussed on the common man but a lot of time it's misleading. In the US there were (are) many cases of misleading public debt figures that look like avg Joe is ripping off the system v. the actual story of what went down. 

The story of Jefferson County is a good example IMO of repeated bank scams all across the US.

The whole scheme relied on corruption & criminality but the main story coming out in the press was how Jefferson County went crazy money spending on public infrastructure and couldn't pay it back to the banks. Not exactly the case...

The facility, which has been under construction since 1996, was meant to cost about $300m.

But the bill soared to $3.1bn after construction problems and a series of bond and derivatives deals that went sour in the financial meltdown of 2008.

October 2002-December 2003: JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM) serves as lead banker on thefinancings at the center of the county’s collapse. Before the transactions, more than 95 percent of the sewer bonds were traditional fixed-cost securities.

By the end of it, 93 percent carried interest rates that fluctuated along with the market, including $2.1 billion of so- called auction-rate securities. The county tried to mitigate the risk of rising expenses with interest-rate swaps, under which it received adjustable payments meant to cover the bonds and paid a fixed rate in return. The county entered into 18 swap trades with a notional value of $5.6 billion, with JPMorgan the dominant provider, according to the SEC.

The bank’s fees on the swaps weren’t disclosed; rather, they were embedded in the interest rates the county paid. JPMorgan overcharged the county on the swaps to cover the cost of more than $8 million in secret payments made to friends of county commissioners who worked for local companies, a step to secure JPMorgan’s lead role, according to the SEC.

April 2007: Porter, White & Co., a financial adviser brought in to analyze the swaps, estimates that the $120 million in swap fees it was charged were as much as $100 million more than warranted.

January-March 2008: As the effects of the housing-market crash sent ripples through the financial system, the credit ratings of two companies that insured Jefferson County’s bonds, Financial Guaranty Insurance Co. and XL Capital Assurance Inc., are cut because of losses suffered on securities tied to home loans.

Without top credit ratings, buyers including money-market funds couldn’t hold the bonds. Concerned investors dumped them en masse. Banks, seeking to shore up their own cash reserves, stop stepping in to buy unwanted auction-rate securities. Many auctions fail, leaving Jefferson County with penalty interest rates. As central banks slash rates, the payments received under the swaps fall instead of increasing, adding to the costs.

JPMorgan and other banks that agreed to buy a portion of the bonds in return for a fee are protected by contracts that required the county to pay off $850 million of the debt in four years, instead of as long as 40 years, as the county had planned. When the bonds were cut to junk, the county faced the risk they could be forced to pay hundreds of millions in fees to escape from the swaps. On Feb. 29, Standard & Poor’s rated the sewer bonds below investment grade. “Once we got cut to junk status, we couldn’t go any lower without just leaving the scene and turning over a corpse to somebody,” then County Commissioner Jim Carns said.

October 2009: The former commissioner in charge of finance, Larry Langford, is convicted of accepting bribes in exchange for giving more than $7 million in sewer-bond business to Blount. Langford is later sentenced to 15 years in jail.

November 2009: JPMorgan agrees to a $722 million settlement with the SEC over allegations that LeCroy and the bank’s former municipal derivatives chief, Douglas MacFaddin, paid more than $8 million in undisclosed payments to Blount and two other local-broker dealers that performed no known role in the deals.

August 2011: After preparing to file for bankruptcy and publicly debating it, county commissioners decide to extend talks through mid-September with a view toward reaching a resolution.

Sept. 16, 2011: Jefferson County’s commission votes 4-1 to accept a tentative deal with creditors.

There's the whole play-by-play.

Here's the fallout for the common people:

The two rates have been combined into a single bill in Jefferson County, which has increased by 329% over the past 15 years, making it among the highest in America, as the county has struggled to service the mountain of debt it took on to pay for a new sewer system.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:58 | 3336390 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

There is a lot of fraud in the system, and a lot of it is certainly stemming from tbtf. However, you can't really take one (BAD) case and generalize on that basis. Furthermore, your case is accounted for in state finances, not in the us budget.


the us budget is 2.4 receipts, 3.7 expenditure, of which a substantiall portion go to ss, Medicare, Medicaid and other social spending. Can you find the 1.3tn which would balance the budget?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 19:52 | 3336568 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

However, you can't really take one (BAD) case and generalize on that basis. Furthermore, your case is accounted for in state finances, not in the us budget.

It was just an example of a case study, of interest in particular because of how it was reported - a tale of government waste where the innocent bankers were forced to take a haircut.

This type of thing goes on at all levels of government nationally and internationally. 

As far as the UK, I don't know it specifically but the general shape of the government is not too far off from my country of origin, Canada.

In Canada the gov is semi-clever, what they love is 'public-private' partnerships. What they do is they manage to increase overall expenditutres on things like education & healthcare while simultaneously defunding programs. 

How do they manage this feat? They close down programs running within the public system for 'efficiency' purposes and outsource that work to private contractors. The private contractors take the money then splurge on management & administration and less on the programs themselves with nowhere near the level of oversight at the public side of things. So the money going out the door is up, level of direct spending goes down while still being a public expense. And who manages all these loans....?

I'm not pro gov spending, just pointing out that a lot of this is simple graft and when things fall apart the public gets the blame and the bill.

The obvious solution is cut the government out of the picture and hand things over to private enterprise entirely. However, an obvious problem in this is you've handed power from a semi-accountable institution to institutions which are completely unaccountable.

Solution being that with 'competition' & 'price discovery' rational markets will sort out the difference and have accountability to clients / customers. This is great in theory, but not in practice. 

Ideally IMO you need a democratic system where choices are made collectively to disband any concentration of power & expenditures are made locally on a small scale.

Can you find the 1.3tn which would balance the budget?

Impossible to understand the US Federal budget. The system doesn't make any sense - when the economy is that big the federal government can't be responsible for so much. Who could possibly make good decisions on a budget that big and complex?

The system needs to be rethought. 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 20:26 | 3336681 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Oh I'm aware of public-private-partnerships, but was really looking for hard numbers. Because the absurd growth in welfare payments around the world essentially largely come at a time of substantial growth in retirees (and the unemployed) - but that's obviously not saying that we don't have a bunch of parasites leeching from the common pool. But, as said, I'd like to see some actual numbers. I point blank refuse to believe that the US deficit could all be solved through elimination of what is commonly referred to as government waste.

As for the system needing to be rethought, I'm all with you there. However, my action would be to allow banks to fail. Capitalism isn't just about profit, it's about loss just as well (aka "creative destruction"), but as long as we have corporations at the top which are thought of being "too big to fail", that's as long as capitalism essentially is suppressed.

edit: I don't know who downvoted you but it wasn't me. I appreciate an actual discussion rather than mudslinging, even if I happen to disagree with you! :)

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 21:11 | 3336799 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture



I'll try to give you some examples from Canada... 

First is Alberta, Alberta is famous for it's oil and consistently Conservative political climate. For the past several years Alberta has had very low taxes and lots of cash coming in thanks to their Oil. Now all of a sudden they face a major budget deficit? How can this be?? Keep in mind, this is a very Conservative gov & province.

A bunch of terrible predictions on oil revenues and majorly overpriced 'infrastructure' projects (a recurring theme) have now come to a head. Who gets the blame & bill? Joe Alberta.

As far as these infrastructure projects go, they always end up under some category of benefit to Joe Canada, but what they really are are a gift to connected companies and banks.

^ Jefferson county re-dux. 

 BC Hydro ratepayers will be forking over the estimated $7.9 billion to build the Site C hydroelectric dam on the Peace River - up from the initial $2 billion estimate, said B.C. Hydro spokesperson David Conway during a presentation to Prince George city council Monday.

Canada federally had been somewhat tightening the belt for years as far expenditures go (after a disastrous Conservative Gov in the 80s really messed things up) and managed to get some of the deficit under control.

Then the financial crisis hit… All of sudden a major deficit occurs, where is the money going? If you suspected the banks ding ding ding!

So the gov buys up a lot of toxic crap (labelled as good stuff) from the banks balance sheets and deficits skyrocket. Here's the budget, note the word 'stimulus'


  • An additional $50 billion for the Insured Mortgage Purchase Program, increasing its size to $125 billion. (>>you have found the bank bailout, only they didn't call it that<<)
  • $13 billion to increase the lending of Crown corporations, of which $5 billion will be delivered through the new Business Credit Availability Program.
  • $12 billion for a Canadian Secured Credit Facility to support financing of vehicles and equipment.

The budget is teetering and so some 'efficiencies' must be made because the word is out that public expenditures are simply unsustainable and Canadians are a bunch of pampered greedy takers.  



Sat, 03/16/2013 - 23:15 | 3337131 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I don't think we have any 'conservatives' in Canada. I've never voted 'Conservative' because they're fake fucking phonies.

Every last one of them from every last party will spend like drunken sailors. None of them care about math or historical precedent, warnings, trends, about anything.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 05:35 | 3337427 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

"Every last one of them..."spending like drunken sailors.


Every last one of them except for Tom Douglas' CCF you mean, right?

That particular democratically elected governing body is the only one in North America, not just Canada, to run 17 COUNT EM seventeen surplus budgets...all while introducing universal access to decent health care for simply everyone in the entire province, along with a great many other fresh new public services for a population comprised of a diverse ethnicity. In fact...look it's a long story, but you may want to look into it a bit at some point in your busy life: it might be important.

Well, so much for the 'lefty spendy' 'righty whitey fiscally tighty' bs distinctions, eh? As a result of this knowledge no one will ever make that thoroughly refuted misapprehension again, right? LOL

IE The CCF and their politcs were not the German National Socialists as so very very many zealots (etc.) here would unceasingly labour day and night, night and day to have us all erroneously believe.

James Cole is right: this is not socialism.

I'd wager the author just wants you to incorrectly label it that. Perhaps so that if you talk about it you'll sound like an idiot and nobody with access to a dictionary will take you seriously.

@Ch1 you great hairy ape; stick to beating your chest for bitcoin please.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 05:36 | 3337434 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Worth noting, the first universal single payer system. He did many great things but was also head of a socialist party which means it's impolite to discuss him in public. 

I find it intersting how the term socialism has been twisted so successfully, all day today I was reading article after article about the Cyprus fiasco where the comments were filled with people frothing at the mouth over this 'socialist' move by banks to steal depositors money and how 'socialism' was destroying the world.... 

When stealing depositor funds to bailout highly concentrated banking interests is considered 'socialism' by the masses you know the PR is working great!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 19:59 | 3336597 Acet
Acet's picture

Here's some more UK figures for comparisson:

Bank bailout: £1.4 Trillion

Figures from the New Economic Foundation place the continued bank support from things like the TBTF subsidy at about £120 billion per-year. I'm pretty sure this doesn't include things like reduction of non-performing loans due to ultra low interest rates.

So yeah, also in the UK the previous poster has a point.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 20:19 | 3336665 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

With all due respect, but the NEF are as biased as they come. That's not saying the TBTF didn't receive government largesse (they certainly did), but the numbers you quote essentially are as trustworthy as any number mentioned by Max Keiser.

£1.4tn refers to the amount of insured ("by the British taxpayer") assets, they are not a tally of subsidy to the banks. So, yes, in the event they all turn out to be absolutely worthless, then the final amount will be £1.4tn. But that's not where we are at today.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:48 | 3336219 flacon
flacon's picture

Well at least he's blaming Socialism and not Capitalism for a change. 

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:59 | 3336247 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Socialism is production oriented, it doesn't apply to this scenario at all.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:05 | 3336263 Element
Element's picture

It's Ok, this is just a symptom of Eurozone green-shoots.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 04:34 | 3337406 CH1
CH1's picture

Socialism is production oriented, it doesn't apply to this scenario at all.

Right, socialists never steal. Sure.....

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 05:38 | 3337436 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Socialism is production oriented, it doesn't apply to this scenario at all.

Google is your friend.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 08:06 | 3337533 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

for james cole et al, seems all this state finance crime is in socialist countries, USSA encluded, most here on ZH see thru your BS. ps Bush the traitor under GOP majority added a big socialist programs in education, and drugs for the elderly called medicare D. for all you D vs R folks the evidence is clear there is one party in power in USSA. there has been no capitalism in the west in decades.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:31 | 3336324 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

is it a corporation or a govt taking the peoples money?     Even if you say corporations (banks, not cat food or guitar string corporations) coerce or force the govt to do so, Corporations are not representatives of the people.  Govts are supposed to be.  Corporations may try and screw us, but it is govt that is supposed to work for us.  I hold govt more accountable.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 04:35 | 3337407 CH1
CH1's picture

it is govt that is supposed to work for us.

And that's how to suckered you.

Governments are aggressive parasites. ALWAYS.

Mon, 03/18/2013 - 09:45 | 3342095 greatscott
greatscott's picture

It should be more like if PM's aren't 100% of your investments, you need to see a doctor!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 19:27 | 3336472 ImReady
ImReady's picture

I hope you are wrong(for now). Draining the accounts and going for gold!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:05 | 3336096 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

No private credit, at least not for you and me and other non-institutional entities. But that's been basically the case for some time. Don't worry, the Fed's got it covered.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:21 | 3335945 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Yep.  Stupid is as stupid does.  At least the lines are being clearly drawn.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:25 | 3335971 Mark123
Mark123's picture

But Bernanke studied the great depression (also caused by his banking cartel) he can fix things.  Apparently the dopes bank in the 1930"s did not have printing presses.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:18 | 3336304 DosZap
DosZap's picture

With 12.9 T in deposits in the banking system, and the FDIC having only 7 Billion in reserves to back up defaults,makes you confident huh?.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:42 | 3336015 put_peter
put_peter's picture

"No longer"... i'd say democrazy would suit better.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 11:51 | 3338310 imaginalis
imaginalis's picture

A depositor tax in one country should be mirrored by a similar tax in Cayman Islands

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:48 | 3336032 Freddie
Freddie's picture

We have seen how "civil" Europeans can be with each other in 2 world wars and many before that.  We have seen how "civil" The United States "Civil" War was with 1.1 million dead. 

Why did these wars happen?  European bankster families looking for a good return on their money and how to STEAL the wealth of working people.  These wars are additional "taxes" on the suffering populace from the bankster family elites pushed by their politician puppets.

The same thing happens in Asia and S America to the hapless citizenry.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:03 | 3336083 Seer
Seer's picture

Refreshingly good call.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:58 | 3336240 Orly
Orly's picture

Freddie has actually been quite coherent lately.


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:08 | 3336268 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture


(and needing a new keyboard)

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:09 | 3336270 akak
akak's picture

He's finally getting over the delirium tremens caused by his cold-turkey TV withdrawal.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:13 | 3336119 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture


European bankster families looking for a good return on their money and how to STEAL the wealth of working people

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:17 | 3336128 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

No ~ the fucking 'evil episcopalians'...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:58 | 3336242 Orly
Orly's picture

How 'bout we label them, "criminals," and leave it at that?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:10 | 3336275 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

They can't stir up enough hate that way, old girl.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:26 | 3336316 Orly
Orly's picture

I say we open our eyes and direct the blame to the actual source. They are directly before us and are not at all hard to see.

Forget about the Illuminati and Nazis in disguise.  These people are criminals and there's no two ways about it.

Maybe it is a form of trolling to be rapt in the "Joos did it" thing.  Let us not fall into that trap because it is simply another layer of Divide and Conquer.  It is playing directly to their hands.

Our wrath should be directed to the criminals who are perpetrating these crimes upon humanity.  Let's let Yahweh divide the true Jews and the Christians and Muslims from who are the pretenders, okay?


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 21:13 | 3336808 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Stated like a true idiot...


Fuck ~ If I could play God for a day, I's send a stinking flaming meteor the size of Ohio towards the earth and let the brave species sort out the aftermath for themselves...

The fucking cockroaches, most likely, would win [which would fulfill the 'Chosen Ones' prophecy]...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 21:13 | 3336809 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:02 | 3336081 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

And this is why only violent revolution solves this. If you hide your money under your mattress they kill you with inflation. If you put in a bank they confiscate it. Time to stop open season on bankers and pols right now

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:16 | 3335915 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

The only reliably predictable response when the emperor's ornate garb falls from view:

Who coulda know'd?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:38 | 3336007 hoos bin pharteen
hoos bin pharteen's picture

Better to stop the bailouts and confiscation altogether.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 19:53 | 3336582 PubliusTacitus
PubliusTacitus's picture

Worst idea possible.


Tobin’s fatuously stupid idea for a transaction tax has nothing to do with governments spending too much.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 09:52 | 3337793 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Governments don't spend too much, governments borrow too much. And why do governments even "borrow?" That's the crux of the matter.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 19:57 | 3336594 Brutarius
Brutarius's picture

So a tax on transactions that lose money. Brilliant idea there.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:02 | 3335868 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

LOL. Color me shocked!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:05 | 3335870 Racer
Racer's picture

All I know, is that if they wanted to do some sort of bailout over the weekend away from the stock markets because that is all they care about and not savers or people

What they and their greed just did will mean they just made the situation many millions of times worse... the first domino in a pan global bank run may just have fallen down

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:06 | 3335871 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

How can you not believe this has happened? Historically speaking periods where governments and banks do not steal from the peasants are rare indeed.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:10 | 3335876 spooz
spooz's picture

But wait, didn't the junior BONDHOLDERS get a piece of this? From what I heard, they may get their bonds converted to equity positions. So, then, why do SHAREHOLDERS stand ahead of depositors? That sounds like the elites taking care of themselves, seeing as both bondholders AND shareholders should be WIPED OUT before any depositor loses a dime.


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:31 | 3335987 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Havn't you heard? A dollar gets a dime.  

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:06 | 3336097 Seer
Seer's picture

If you want money own a bank.  If you want to lose money put your money in a bank.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:08 | 3336104 Matt
Matt's picture

But you missed the "good" part of the deal; the depositers will be compensated for the 6.75% fee by getting an equity stake in their bank. I wonder if the size of the equity stake is equal to all depositers, or whether it is portional to the amount of money taken, and how that will compare to the banks' share prices.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:17 | 3336129 HD
HD's picture

Corzined is the new ponzi...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:23 | 3336314 seek
seek's picture

Welcome to the new normal!

As the time to the reset shortens, the elite will become more and more brazen about putting themselve at the head of the line.

I can't imagine what it's going to look like when this move comes to the US. Presumably shortly thereafter armed drones will be protecting elite enclaves.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:05 | 3335878 Quantitative_Ap...
Quantitative_Appeasing's picture

Rule of Law?


To clarify I'm going to borrow some lines from a relevant movie:



First, your return of capital was not part of our negotiations nor our agreement so I must do nothing.

And secondly, you must be a banker for the banker's code to apply and you're not.

And thirdly, the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Black Swirl, Miss Earner.



Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:33 | 3335992 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Hey, hows about you and me go in the back room and do a couple lines.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:49 | 3336038 mikla
mikla's picture

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 21:23 | 3336832 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

Funny, in the movie I never noticed he was a gay pirate.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:06 | 3335881 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

A "debt jubilee" would be socialism.

This exercise in monetary confiscation is fascist.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:12 | 3335906 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

Keeping the wealthy weathly by stealing it from the less wealthy is not socialism. Its the divine right of kings. In the 21st century its the divine right of Banksters.

"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks." John Dalberg Lord Acton

Wake me up when the war starts.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:15 | 3335918 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

This is straight-up tyranny, and it ends with blood.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:35 | 3335995 negative rates
negative rates's picture

No it don't, it ends up wit water, mixed with blood on the streets, can't you just participate?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:41 | 3336003 Cdad
Cdad's picture

I'm still waiting for someone to answer my question.  

The depositors of Cyprus are surrendering 7-10% of their savings to pay for _________________________?  I'd really like to know what goes in that blank space...for it to be specifically enumerated.  

Hat tip to Lars Christensen...for calling it what it


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:17 | 3336127 css1971
css1971's picture

bond holders.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 22:11 | 3336699 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Ah yes...I see.  I knowledge of the particulars on this one was lacking.  But a little less so now.

So as I now understand it, if there is a hue and cry from the Russians about the confiscation of 9.9% of their deposits, it will be simply for show.  As in exchange, the bonds on the banks that they own in Cyprus will be preserved...if only for a bit longer.  And the government of Cyprus will be happy with this outcome as their debt to GDP will be held down...if only for a bit longer.

And all that it took to achieve this was to steal what is the more significant portion of deposits...since only 20% of deposits in Cyprus are Russian.

Now I get it...I think.  To the citizens of've been banksterized!  So sorry.  But at least Russian banking interests and ignorant Cypriot government officials will be preserved.  Oh...and hedge funds invested in Cypus bank debt, too.  Trifecta.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:52 | 3336231 aleph0
aleph0's picture

Zypern: Testlauf des Totalen Kapitalismus
Von Daniel Neun

...  handelt es sich bei den “zypriotischen” Banken, die da von Staat Zypern “gerettet” werden “müssen” (damit der Staat Zypern dann gerettet werden “muss”) um folgende Organisationen:

- Societe Generale
- Hellenic Bank
- National Bank of Greece
- Eurobank
- die ehemalige “Preußischen Landespfandbriefanstalt zur Finanzierung des Kleinwohnungsbaus”, heute Depfa Bank, Teil der vom deutschen Staaten mitsamt Hunderten von Milliarden Euro Schulden übernommenen verstaatlichten Hypo Real Estate,
usw, usw.


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:12 | 3336286 RazvanM
RazvanM's picture




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Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:19 | 3336307 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:46 | 3336363 Day_Of_The_Tentacle
Day_Of_The_Tentacle's picture


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 20:56 | 3336765 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Dont bother going to that saxo link.... There all out to lunch. System upgrade my assets

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 02:14 | 3337347 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

They stole a lot of KGB and kleptocrat winnings Maybe those guys are just softies and sweethearts.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:14 | 3336121 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"Keeping the wealthy weathly by stealing it from the less wealthy is not socialism."

It's social parasitism, which exists in every single form of state society you can name. Better wake the fuck up.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:56 | 3336238 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Good sentiment. As I understand the concept of socialism, it must be voluntary to be authentic. Socialism is a very compelling model...If entirely voluntary.

Oh, and did I mention the entirely voluntary part?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:06 | 3335883 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Wow, Cyprus is getting all the attention this weekend!  Crisis du jour!  Let's see if this coming week is going to be "one of THOSE weeks"...

Getting prepared is still possible, but you should act fast.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:07 | 3336102 Ourrulersknowbest
Ourrulersknowbest's picture

I am Irish and am increasingly horrified at how subservient we are to Europe.hopefully this event in Cyprus will gain some attention from the sleeping sheeple.unfortunatly they are so brain washed by MSM that some will put their money into the stock market as a perception is out there now that rising markets are due to sound reasoning and not a bullshit fake rally to get the rubes in.
At the moment in Ireland,polls show that the Fianna Fáil political party who drove our country onto the rocks,are now and yet again the most popular party here.I can no longer hope that our people have the balls or the wit to seek something different.sadly as history has shown over and over the majority of people want to believe that TPTB have their best interests at the forefront of policy decisions.WRONG!
Time will tell.


Sun, 03/17/2013 - 00:37 | 3337270 pvzh
pvzh's picture

"Fianna Fáil"

Fail? Really?!... How could anybody vote for them?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 20:24 | 3336680 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Time for a Carnival Cruise ship to sink to create a distraction.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 21:28 | 3336846 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

yeah, one on its way to Cyprus.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:06 | 3335884 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

CNBS burying the story under the title....

Euro Zone Agrees to 10 Billion Euro Bailout for Cyprus
Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:19 | 3335938 uno
uno's picture

good catch, time for them to roll out another 11 year old stockpicker

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:22 | 3335950 centerline
centerline's picture

Was talking to someone the other day about the MSM.  The top fucks that run it are fully invested in the system.  Like showboat CEO's who could give a shit about what a company actually does or it's employees, these asswipes just want to preserve the status quo the same as the bankers.

Hatchet job after hatchet job and the truth is eventually on display though.  Makes me wonder how Forbes got away with printing anything questioning the 1.6 billions rounds of DHS ammo.  Was funny to see fox pop up on damage control shortly thereafter.  What a joke this has all become.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:00 | 3336249 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"Makes me wonder how Forbes got away with printing anything questioning the 1.6 billions rounds of DHS ammo. "

At some point the BS gets so deep that folks who thought they were immune realize they're in it, too.

"showboat CEO's"  LOL.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:18 | 3336125 ekm
ekm's picture

Top news on Le Monde. It's getting spread out.

Not top new in Italy yet

Left wing newspaper in canada, nothing


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:21 | 3336138 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Interesting to note that the Cypriotic Presidential election happened just recently.,_2013

I'm sure the timing was just a "coincidence" - because otherwise some radical might have been elected, and we can't have the population's outrage with the status quo looked after now, can we?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:26 | 3336158 ekm
ekm's picture

Absolutely agree.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:39 | 3336191 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Why would the star put it front page??

FT put it well.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:07 | 3335885 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

I can't imagine that they (Eurocrats, IMF, ECB) are that stupid not to know that this is going to scare depositors all over the peripheral countries. So the question is:

Why do they want another massive capital flight to the core?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:10 | 3335897 Quantitative_Ap...
Quantitative_Appeasing's picture

WHY would you put your money in ANY bank? They have just shown that ALL banks are suspect. You either keep the fiat in the mattress, gold or bartering goods.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:23 | 3335963 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

WHY would you put your money in ANY bank?

Free Spiderman towels?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:10 | 3336108 Seer
Seer's picture

Busted a gut!

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:53 | 3336379 Day_Of_The_Tentacle
Day_Of_The_Tentacle's picture

To get the cover to roll out a new monetary system maybe?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:21 | 3336139 Quantitative_Ap...
Quantitative_Appeasing's picture

The free spiderman towels are now on sale for the small price of 9.9% of your deposit.....

Should have gotten in on the ground floor!


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:25 | 3336154 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

On Monday morning, I fully expect lots of people in the Med to wake up, thinking that exactly.

But hey, they said "it wouldn't happen in Spain and Italy". They also said that the First Greek bailout was a once-only sort of affair. As was the Portuguese. And Irish. And Spain really is solved.....

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:16 | 3335919 magpie
magpie's picture

They just got too greedy. It would also have happened with the Italian instability, but since they had to prop up the Potemkin village there...alas.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:12 | 3336115 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

They are herding the money. wealth extraction by stealing a small percentage which will cause the rest of it to flow into their banks. Every action causes a reaction. All that is needed to understand their motives is to watch the result.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:08 | 3335887 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Roots of socialism in America during 1912

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:09 | 3335894 JackT
JackT's picture

Seems to me this would be good for the stock markets. The savings slaves have essentially been slapped and told to "invest" or else

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:13 | 3335911 Quantitative_Ap...
Quantitative_Appeasing's picture

And what's to stop them from slapping the same kind of "tax" on brokerage accounts????

Or directly on stock holdings? E.G. we'll only take 10% of your shares. for stabiliteeee....



Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:18 | 3336131 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Capital gains tax? Income tax? Regulatory compliance fees?

It's already here dude. Wake up.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:47 | 3336216 Quantitative_Ap...
Quantitative_Appeasing's picture

Parent comment was that this would force people into stocks.

I was pointing out that if a "one time" tax was levied onbank accounts there is no reason it couldnt be levied on brokerage as well "one time" of course.......



Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:01 | 3336250 JackT
JackT's picture

Agreed but they won't do that until they've topped off the markets. Besides no one ha said its a one time deal. At minimum it's one per bailout.

The masses only fish in a bucket

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:13 | 3336289 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

One time, every time. :)

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:10 | 3335899 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

I hope the tards raid gold on Monday so I can dump all my stock and load up.  Time to GTFO of the banking system for good.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:14 | 3335910 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

'This is full-blown socialism'


What we need is Sheriff JW Pepper ~ Boy!

"Now you listen to me, trooper boy! We got a swamp full of Black Russians drivin' boats to beat the band down here"

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:14 | 3335912 Doug
Doug's picture

Don't like the terms?  Too freakin' bad.  You'll like the alternative a LOT less.  Germany just yanked the free lunch sign out of the window.  Deal with it.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:16 | 3335924 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

That's because Germany is finally implementing its plan to dissolve the Euro currency.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:20 | 3336135 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Just because some Germans are pulling the strings here doesn't mean they are doing it for germany anymore than Obama is doing what he is doing for Americans. There is a much larger picture. The Eu and the Euro are the seeds for a world government and world currency. They are no more likely to fade away than our growing disaster of a government is shrinking in the shadow of its failings. Pedal to the metal now, baby!

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 02:21 | 3337352 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

They'll have to have a security threat, an external one, to motivate people to work for the government under austere ( truly austere) conditions. People got FDR's central planning extravaganza only after pearl harbor. Neil then they chose to sit on their labor and capital.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:37 | 3335999 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Damn, I hate when that happens.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:14 | 3335913 Truther
Truther's picture

RUN baby RUN.....Fuck you Bernanke

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:15 | 3335917 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

When the bondholders took a haircut in Greece they took it.  This is different in that the depositors are being scalped.

10B Euros will not be enough to bail out Cyprus once the runs start.

They're going to come back Monday and say 'just kidding about that deposit tax' because the Fed will make up the shortfall needed.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:16 | 3335922 surf0766
surf0766's picture

I cannot wait until this happens in the U.S. I want to see my 62 year old golfing baby boomer neighbor dump in his pants when they start taking his cash.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:19 | 3335937 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

They don't have to.

They just print more making his worth less.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 20:32 | 3336695 e-recep
e-recep's picture

yes, they dont have to. problem with cyprus is, the cypriot officials cant print euros, so they have to steal out in the open.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:37 | 3336000 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture


You plan on dying before YOU hit 62? If not some future asshole will be hoping the same thing about you.

He was lied too just like your getting lied too. Deal with it.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:18 | 3336132 Seer
Seer's picture

Many people do have a clue but are in denial.  My brother fits this to a tee: I had him tell me that what I was saying was correct, but he looks at me and tells me that he doesn't believe that it'll happen in his lifetime; reason? he was on the verge of retiring, to go play golf...  So, while HE spends his last days playing (golf) I'm busy trying to get a farm going.  He'll be leaving his kid shit.  I have no kids (though my wife does), but some younger people will appreciate what I'll have done (won't be able to say that about my brother).

I plan on working until I drop dead.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:20 | 3336134 surf0766
surf0766's picture

Geezer,,,   I plan on living well. As I do now.. Thanks

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:25 | 3336153 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Its all about lowering of expectations.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:27 | 3336159 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

Oh then your safe because plans always go according to plan.

Who said I was old smurf? Or you just assumed it because you can plan to live well unlike others?

You can not predict the future no matter how much you plan.



Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:20 | 3336136 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Can you name one person or group which is not a victim for the full duration of its pathetic existence?

I sure a lot of people acting like victims ...

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:32 | 3336177 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Ah, schadenfreude, how it bites back hard when the chickens come home to roost.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:17 | 3335925 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

They ended with just a tiny fraction of the money Merkel and Schaeuble wanted:

Cyprus news on CYBC tonight...Merkel and Schaeuble initially demanded a levy of 40% levy on all bank accounts and an increase of corporate tax to 25%

They ended up with corporate taxes increasing to 12.5% from 10%, and a maximum levy of 9.9% on bank accounts.  What was Merkel thinking?  If she can steal enough from the Russians, she can fix every problem in the EU?

These taxes will raise $5.8 billion euros.  How will they raise 500 to 600  billion euros that Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal will need?


Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:20 | 3335940 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Domestic German politics.

General elections in September.Cypriots don't vote,nor Russians.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:28 | 3336319 Orly
Orly's picture

The Russians don't vote in Germany?

What if they shut off your gas?  Would they have a say then?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 18:34 | 3336330 akak
akak's picture

Irrelevant --- any possible Russian natgas withholding from Europe would be merely transitory.

Besides, in such a situation Europeans would just hedonically substitute firewood, structural beams and chopped-up furniture for the natural gas, so their standard of living would remain unchanged.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:23 | 3335964 Rustysilver
Rustysilver's picture

One week at a time.

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:25 | 3335970 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

It's called "negotiating".  You always ask for more than you know you'll get.  If, oddly enough, they had gotten a full 40%/25% levy the banks would be cinders, not just having a bulldozer parked in front of one.

"You took 40% of my money?!  WTF, I'll just set fire to the remaining 60%."

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 16:19 | 3335927 sitenine
sitenine's picture

Socialism my ass! Why can't anyone say the word, FASCISM!?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:24 | 3336150 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Because it has nothing to do with this?

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 17:46 | 3336209 akak
akak's picture


If this is not "the merger of state power and corporate interests", I don't know what the fuck would be.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!