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Europe Scrambling With Last Minute Revision To Cyprus Deposit Confiscation Plan

Tyler Durden's picture




 

If initially Europe came out as utterly deranged in its Cyprus deposit-confiscation scheme, at least it was consistent. Now, it appears that Europe is desperate to appear not only completely incompetent but also unable to even make a simple decision and stick with it, following news from both the WSJ and the FT that the original confiscation thresholds of 6.75% and 9.9% for deposits below and over €100,000 is about to be revised.

From the FT: "a revised deal being discussed in Nicosia, with the blessing of the European Commission, would shift more of the burden on to deposits larger than €100,000, according to officials involved in the talks. Under a controversial deal struck with international bailout lenders in the early hours on Saturday, a 6.75 per cent levy would be imposed on all deposits under €100,000 while accounts over that threshold would be hit with a 9.9 per cent levy. The depositor levy was demanded by a German-led group of creditor countries to bring down the bailout’s price tag from €17bn.... Officials involved in last night’s talks said the changes in the levy’s rates were in flux, but they could see the higher rate increase to as much as 12.5 per cent while the smaller deposits could be about 3.5 per cent."

Elsewhere, according to the WSJ, the deposit "tax" would be under 5% for deposits under €100K, under 10% for deposits between €100 and €500K, and over 13% for deposits greater than half a million.

While this idiotic last minute revision will only infuriate Russian oligarchs even more, it will achieve absolutely nothing to streamline the passage of the bill through Cyprus parliament where it appears to have hung without enough support: the damage has already been done, and it is a virtual guarantee that Cyprus banks will suffer a full blown bank run the second banks reopen, which may be Tuesday, Wednesday, or never, at the current pace. That line around the block at your local neighborhood Nicosia ATM: that is not, and will not, be for people seeking to make a deposit, that much we can guarantee, no matter what the final confiscation percentage is.

What is worse, however, is the painful demonstration of the absolutely and completely arbitrary decision-making process out of Europe. Sure: the ECB and the European Commission may decide to fully unwind the deposit confiscation scheme before all is said and done, but the genie is now out of the bottle, and it is very clear that in the European Disunion, a few unelected oligarchs will now determine until such time as the Eurozone finally implodes, just whose wealth and deposits are ripe for the taking. That not even Germany can make a decision and stick with it is just icing on the cake of the European Titanic.

In the meantime, what happens in Cyprus tonight, or tomorrow, and what the final confiscation schedule looks like, is merely bitter sweet victory for all those who have claimed that the European monetary experiment is finally coming to a long overdue end.

Finally, we can only hope that the next European (in whatever Monetary Union or Disunion format it is then) winter, is mild. Because Gazpromia may just decide to hike gas costs by 5%... or 6.75%.... or 9.9%.... or 99.9%.... Who knows? After all, Gazpromia Russia - which just happens to be Europe primary external source of crude and gas, has a green light to make up its own rules on the fly.

 

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Sun, 03/17/2013 - 16:55 | 3339659 akak
akak's picture

Q: How can you tell when a bankster is lying?

A: Yes.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:02 | 3339692 machineh
machineh's picture

'from now on they can be very confident that nothing will happen to their savings.'

Translation: 'Now that I've finished raping you, you can be confident that I'll always respectfully ask your permission from now on.'

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 16:55 | 3339660 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Under oath, Bernanke: ".. we will not monetize.."

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:02 | 3339697 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

"Sub-prime is contained."

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:49 | 3339869 machineh
machineh's picture

"Cyprus is contained."

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:57 | 3339896 e-recep
e-recep's picture

"the worst is over."

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:41 | 3339836 AgentScruffy
AgentScruffy's picture

Sounds like something an abusive husband would say. Sick and sadistic.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:41 | 3339837 AgentScruffy
AgentScruffy's picture

Sounds like something an abusive husband would say. Sick and sadistic.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 16:53 | 3339649 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Oh, so they're proposing a more 'progressive' scheme so that jackboot coerced confiscations will be fair... for the 'social justice', for which they stand, under bankers, indivisible, with serfdom and injustice for all...

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 16:54 | 3339656 jim249
jim249's picture

Revisions; They figured out that they just shit in their own nest.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:22 | 3339761 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

You know, those Cypriots are fully justified if they round up their stupid politicians and bankers and jail or hang all of them.

Then they should have assassin squads go to europa and whack the french imf bitch and the ecb dudes.

But, I am just having a fantasy.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 16:55 | 3339661 css1971
css1971's picture

Who cares how big the percentages are? The precedent has been set THEY'RE COMING FOR YOUR MONEY!

Bubye EU financial sector.

My question is. There is a saying (Hanlon's Razor or Heinlen's Razor) "Never ascribe to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity". How large does the stupidity have to be before you couldn't possibly believe it really was stupidity ahd therefore must be deliberate malice? This hits that mark for me BTW. This can't possibly be simple stupidity it's just too big to adequately explain this therefore it must be deliberate malice... Someone wants to nuke the EU.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 16:55 | 3339662 electricgorilla
electricgorilla's picture

"Why are Bernanke and the ECB choosing not to bail this problem out?  Why is the choice being made to steal money from people.  The cartel exists to print money for these problems.  That is the whole point of the Fed and the ECB, they are supposed to give money to banks so the system doesn't collapse."

 

The FED usually prints money by buying bonds. Cyprus only has $2 billion in bonds. This is a game of chicken with deposit accounts. Proves real,hard,tangible cash cannot be printed so easily.

 


Sun, 03/17/2013 - 16:57 | 3339667 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Who needs TV for entertainment?

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 16:57 | 3339668 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

"Words of love, soft and tender won't win THEM anymore"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95hskT3DS7w

 

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 16:57 | 3339671 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

They just need to take the money now because I don't think there is going to be any money left in these banks once they open.  Even if they say "just kidding" and don't take anything this time, who is going to risk leaving money in a bank.  What is the upside?  This move might kill retail banking world wide.

Let's see, Mr. Bankster, you are going to charge me fees up the ass and give me almost no interest on money I leave with you, and at any time, you can seize any percentage that the government tells you to take from me.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:27 | 3339783 Debugas
Debugas's picture

what's the point in retail banking anyway when there is ECB and Fed shitting money for free ?

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:37 | 3340049 Element
Element's picture

Which is why they want you using a card, no withdrawals with a card, then they just need to eliminate PMs.

Where you going to go now? Anywhere you do go is a rigged-up financial booby-trap, waiting to be harvested.

 

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:52 | 3340100 honestann
honestann's picture

While precious metals are certainly more convenient than non-precious metals and other real, physical, durable goods, the fact is, any durable good can hold value for a long time.

The few smart folks in this world will figure this out in short order if the predators do manage to destroy the precious metals markets.  But also, it is unlikely they will mess with platinum, which may be a better store of value than gold at that point.  The predators can't outlaw the entire periodic table, that's for sure.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 16:58 | 3339679 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

 

 

Class Warfare, Bitchez.

 

All you Cypres depositers are in the boat together, DON'T start pointing the finger at others because of their wealth.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:15 | 3339736 Tirpitz
Tirpitz's picture

Depost insurance covers a hundred thousand worthless EURos. And not a single Rubli more.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:02 | 3339699 Mark123
Mark123's picture

Why would anyone in any troubled European country (piigs) keep any cash or investments with a bank?  Everyone knows they are bankrupt and only kept alive to maintain the facade of an economy that works....at least long enough to debase the currency!

 

Who has more than 100,000 in Cyprus banks?  I cannot believe that Russian mafia are that stupid.

 

Very weird.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:22 | 3339757 Debugas
Debugas's picture

of over total 70 bln euros of bank deposits in cyprus russian citizens hold only around 20 bln

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 20:27 | 3340405 Stuntgirl
Stuntgirl's picture

Before pulling this crap, they made sure to make cash transactions above a ridiculously low amount illegal.

Plus, If I withdraw my cash, and try to reintroduce it into the system later, I will be required to PROVE its legal origin.

Many Europeans would have withdrawn their money, but for these considerations: They can only buy groceries and small stuff with it, and it will be instantly assumed to be ill-gotten money if found out.

Nice, huh.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:16 | 3339738 hyperbole2000
hyperbole2000's picture

Half of the proposed euro bailout monies were going to the Greek branches of the Cypriot banks which were then to be transferred in whole to Greeks.  The main deal is just a backdoor bailout to Greece's sovereign to cover their central bank's obligation to protect the branches depositors, It's like a side bet on a craps table.

The detonator in the Cypriot bank bomb is hard wired with fuse wire to to detonators in the Greek bank bomb.

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/banks/cypriot-banks-transfer-greek-units-greek-owners/20130317

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:27 | 3339787 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

In this scenario Cyprus = AIG

And Ben and friends got away with that...

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:19 | 3339740 Debugas
Debugas's picture

those eurocrats are complete arrogant and dumb-ass nut-cases. 6.75% or 3.5% or even 0.0001% is a break of confidence for the throughout EU law to garantee deposits below 100000 euros.

and they are breaking the confidence in order to get extra 5 bln euros ? Having in mind that they have printed over 1 trln euros last year ? Total Insanity and Arrogance

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:28 | 3339789 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Maybe it's on purpose so things will collapse and shit and they can install a 1 wurld leeder.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 19:07 | 3340171 Bingfa
Bingfa's picture

Like many people here have already said: It's a test

It has to be, nobody could be this stupid....

                 And we've seen some pretty stupid shit come from the EU

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:17 | 3339742 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Doctor Hunter S Thompson couldn't have written a more convoluted, twisted story line than what this EU clown show has produced.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:39 | 3339829 machineh
machineh's picture

Generation of Swine: Tales of Shame and Degradation in the Euro Zone

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:28 | 3340017 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Fuck the doomed (where the buffalo roam):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-TGRLdE950

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:56 | 3340125 Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

Hunter Thompson couldn't write anything today.  It'd all be banned. Quarenteened. All that gun talk? Jailed.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 19:02 | 3340155 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

The ptb would have set him up with drugs already if he was still alive.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:20 | 3339753 yabs
yabs's picture

maybe this is all a ploy to boost stocks

ma

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:21 | 3339754 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

What about they make a revision... TO HANG THE POLITICIANS RESPONSABLE FOR IT??

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:22 | 3339764 Element
Element's picture

They need some new clowns, these guys aren't even funny, they're just hopeless.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:42 | 3339770 JPMorgan
JPMorgan's picture

The bail out should be revised to scrapped, the Cyprus people should insist on it in the strongest possible terms by whatever means it takes.

It's not a bail out it's a take over and power grab.

I'm watching Euronews and I see it's now being spun as the only option, we don't like it but we don't have any choice but to accept it or else the sky will fall etc.

Sickening.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:23 | 3339771 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Take note the usual deceitful Cyprus timing, around a long holiday weekend. Everyone should henceforth be especially careful around any national holiday/long weekend.

 

These pricks always make sure everyone is in a pleasant mood before they get their teeth smashed in followed by a shortened week of rage. Last minute denials and a surprise attack, like Belarus and Mexico. Always.

 

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:24 | 3339772 johnlaw1971
johnlaw1971's picture

Value of Gold = 1/T

T= TRUST  in fractional reserve banking and fiat currency system.

You do the math

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:07 | 3339937 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

JL - what if T=0 ?

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:48 | 3340094 Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

Then there is a divide by zero error and the whole system comes crashing down.

 

 

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:32 | 3339779 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Caution! Black Swan Ahead!

 

 

OOOGA! OOOOGA!

 

 

"But the ship is unsinkable, #2. Add more fiat ballast to the bow!"

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:37 | 3339822 slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

Its a Cluster Flock!

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:35 | 3339809 AgentScruffy
AgentScruffy's picture

Or maybe the eurocrats + Cypriot leaders planned this from the start: "We'll say we're taking over 6% of accounts under 100,000....people will freak out, then we'll lower it to 3+%, people will feel relieved, and not resist."

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:35 | 3339810 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Genie is outta the bottle. CUE THE BULLDOZERS.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:50 | 3339874 SDShack
SDShack's picture

"The scoops are on the way, the scoops are on the way!"

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:39 | 3339825 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

its going to be an interesting week for gold

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:46 | 3339851 slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

True, but confiscation is now confirmed!

Move your stacs while you can.

 

(Shit I can't believe I'm writing this...)

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:47 | 3339833 Wakanda
Wakanda's picture

Bulldozers BiTCHeS!

The bigger, the better!

All ya gotta do is park it on the sidewalk and go viral with YouTube!

Everybody get the message loud and clear.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:48 | 3339863 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

A good crane could be interesting (with a wrecking ball). Need to bullet proof it first maybe...

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:52 | 3339871 Wakanda
Wakanda's picture

Cranes are great, but nothing says "I love you, but..." like a CAT D11.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 20:02 | 3340342 mt paul
mt paul's picture

my CAT D8

gets it done..

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:47 | 3339850 carefreemanjoe
carefreemanjoe's picture

They could'nt just put out some fake numbers about the economy and say that everything is ok, is it?

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:46 | 3339852 carefreemanjoe
carefreemanjoe's picture

They could'nt just put out some fake numbers about the economy and say that everything is ok, is it?

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:49 | 3339865 AgentScruffy
AgentScruffy's picture

Meanwhile, the UK has the back of civil servants and military. (Screw the retirees and Brit businesses that have Cypriot accounts--they'll get no compensation and will have to help bailout other expats.) http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/17/cyprus-savings-levy-uk-compe...

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:49 | 3339866 AgentScruffy
AgentScruffy's picture

Meanwhile, the UK has the back of civil servants and military. (Screw the retirees and Brit businesses that have Cypriot accounts--they'll get no compensation and will have to help bailout other expats.) http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/17/cyprus-savings-levy-uk-compe...

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:07 | 3339933 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

If those accounts are EUR-denominated, the peasant back at home in the UK will get fleeced in order to reimburse the military personnel.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:53 | 3339879 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Talking about higher tax rates for the larger deposits and lower rates for small ones in the name of "justice" is just going to increase the panic amoung foreign depositors in other peripheral countries, thereby causing even more capital flight.

Politicians are such giant idiots.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:55 | 3339886 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

I really wanna see some brusselcrats get shot over this one.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:55 | 3339889 JackT
JackT's picture

If anything this the idea if revision should cause more panic!

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:58 | 3339898 news printer
news printer's picture
Cyprus may raise deposit levy to 12.5% for large accounts

http://rt.com/business/cyprus-bailout-bank-tax-deposits-401/

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 17:58 | 3339900 ES-Sniper
ES-Sniper's picture

Pisani will find a way to spin it bullish

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:05 | 3339926 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

If I make a Cyprus bank deposit on Tuesday, do I get a haircut also....and what is the deposit rate on 1 mth CD for example? Better be around the same rate as the CDS on Cyprus...

And instead of a toaster could I have say 1 acre of an olive farm you will own with the coming farm defaults?

 

 

Mon, 03/18/2013 - 00:29 | 3341144 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

if you go there with physical cash on tuesday i bet you can negotiate your own terms on any goods you might wish to purchase (i suggest a powerboat that your fll up with gold and other high value items)

arbitrage this

(recalls how the currency of choice in russia was second hand cars when it collapsed, since these actually went up in "nominal" rouble value!)

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:06 | 3339930 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

They can withdraw it altogether and IT DOESN'T MATTER.

This demonstrates what the ECB and IMF are capable of doing and to anyone.

If this doesn't push the price of gold up, fuck the Europeans, leave your money in the ECB banks and take it out in worthless "bonds or shares".

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:13 | 3339964 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture

You expect this confiscatory crap in Shitholes like the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea, but in Europe???

Way to go Eurogroup. Kindly select amongst yourselves your apology for a fall guy and get back to us stat.

In the meantime I'm taking my dosh out of the CORE zone, avoiding banks at all costs..

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:17 | 3339974 pcrs
pcrs's picture

I'm sure all their changes of plans are preceded by the appropriate option positions. They can create some volatility from which they themselves can profit.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:36 | 3340046 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

The next announcement will be a Euro wide limit on bank withdrawals.

 

OR

 

They will declare an "extended bank holiday" (some holiday huh?)

 

Till the shit storm subsides.

 

That balloon just got popped.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:37 | 3340052 KingdomKum
KingdomKum's picture

we few, we happy few,  we band of silver holders  .  .  . 

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:38 | 3340053 Black Markets
Black Markets's picture

Cluster Fuck.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:39 | 3340061 WallowaMountainMan
WallowaMountainMan's picture

"Finally, we can only hope that the next European (in whatever Monetary Union or Disunion format it is then) winter, is mild. Because Gazpromia may just decide to hike gas costs by 5%... or 6.75%.... or 9.9%.... or 99.9%.... Who knows? After all, Gazpromia Russia - which just happens to be Europe primary external source of crude and gas, has a green light to make up its own rules on the fly."

disagree.

pushers need addicts. last thing a resource supplier needs is to price itself out of the market. not only would pricing a revenge factor into their product cause a shift in energy sources, but also the animosity, rage, and anger would force massive restructuing of energy policies that leave the russkies with slippery goo whose tide had turned forever. once the addiction is broken, it would take a long long long time for people to forgive and go back.

by the way, that would reduce u.s. energy costs, boost our economy, and offset other inflationary pressure. (sorry ben).

just a thought.

:)

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 14:16 | 3368976 WallowaMountainMan
WallowaMountainMan's picture

 

for the down arrow dude:

(Alexander) "Nekrassov rejected suggestions that Russia might hit back by cutting off gas supplies, a tactic the country used in 2009 after the collapse of talks with Ukraine to end a row over unpaid bills and energy pricing.

 

"Gas is no longer a weapon," Nekrassov said. "When Russia did that before, it realised that the foreign energy lobby reacted and efforts to find alternative sources were increased. If Russia kept threatening, it knows that nobody would be buying its gas in 20 years' time."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-24/russia-demanding-cyprus-out-eur...

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:40 | 3340067 Hapa
Hapa's picture

Looking forward to seeing what silver will do.  As we speak, at the opeining, it is zooming upwards.  Let's see how much it costs JPM to keep it in their low trading range now!

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:42 | 3340076 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

This whole fiasco rates right up there with the stupidity of a trillion dollar coin.  Truly we all have .gov idiots in charge of financial decisions.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:44 | 3340083 little buddy bu...
little buddy buys the dips's picture

the only 'haircut' i want to see (or hear about) is the one where the banker in most need of the 'haircut' is pitched off the roof of a tall tower or forced to dangle via a noose from a lamp post in his bank's parking lot.

 

this collapse stuff has become very boring. when is some banker blood gonna be spilled?

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:46 | 3340084 zipit
zipit's picture

I guess someone forgot to tell them that if you fuck the Russians a little now, they will fuck you a lot later (right up the Cyprasshole).

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:50 | 3340098 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

So they're not going to be a $200 dollar whore, only a $50 dollar whore.

Stealing is stealing flolks. Does it really matter how much?

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:53 | 3340113 Gamma735
Gamma735's picture

It is the final countdown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw

 

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 18:55 | 3340121 Bingfa
Bingfa's picture

I heard they held meetings all weekend...

I would give big money to be a fly on that wall...

               Tuesday is going to be like Monty Python day

               The entire ruling elite in the EU are retards

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 19:01 | 3340154 fukidontknow
fukidontknow's picture

Clearly a mafia war, IMF et al. vs Russian Oligarchs 

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 19:08 | 3340167 honestann
honestann's picture

And so nobody says a peep about reducing the number of government employees, or realigning their pay with reality, or reducing benefits to the non-productive element of society.  All they can do is steal from everyone who has been frugal and saved a bit.  Ye old "can't squeeze blood out of turnips" approach.

I suppose the one bit of good that could come from this is to make clear to regular drone sheeple the advantage of holding their wealth in real, physical gold, silver, platinum bars under their own control.  Unfortunately, most sheeple on planet earth at this point in history are much too braindamaged to learn such obvious lessons.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 19:48 | 3340302 MS7
MS7's picture

reducing # of govt employees = rise in unemployment, more competition for jobs in private sector, lower wages in private sector

"realigning their pay with reality" = race to bottom as private companies also reduce wages

cutting benefits to "non productive element of society" ? oh, like the disabled, elderly, and unemployed?

Those do not sound like better alternatives (if I understood your comment correctly).

In any case, I read on a Greek blog that Merkel told the Greek PM that Greece's banks would suffer a simiar fate if they don't fire government workers. I don't know if this is true or, even if a rumor, if it will spread and cause even more panic.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 23:12 | 3340694 honestann
honestann's picture

Every so-called "government worker" is nothing but a predator (essentially, mafia enforcers), sucking the life out of every-falling percentage of humans who produce real goods.  Every penny they receive is FLAT OUT STOLEN.  I am happy to see that part of the "economy" completely eliminated (reduction is insufficient).

Paying people to destroy things is not good for an economy.

I have as much empathy as anyone for legitimate unfortunates, but they must be helped by private assistance (in any ethical, benevolent world).  However, the moment any of these unfortunates (even the legitimately unfortunate) intentionally supports and votes-in predators who promise them "more goodies" to be stolen from producers, they become parasites and honorary predators (via their support of predators), and lose 100% of my sympathy, 100% of my empathy, 100% of my help.  In fact, by those acts they become my mortal enemy, second only to the overt predators.

You need to WAKE UP.  That part of what is CALLED "the economy" that is "government" is NOT productive and is thus NOT positive GDP.  In fact, all money stolen by government is DESTRUCTIVE (as in negative economically).  This is incredibly easy to understand... all you need do is visualize people who are inventing, designing, developing, implementing, manufacturing real, physical goods and goodies... then visualize government workers who only STEAL from those productive workers, and give a little to a few real unfortunates, and millions of fake and self-made unfortunates.

NOBODY OWE YOU a comfortable old age.  If you buy every fad and luxury your whole life rather than save, you deserve to have a rough old age.  In the aggregate, human beings produce enough to support themselves.  All you need to do is produce enough to support yourself.

I am absolutely certain you would be BLOWN AWAY (probably as far as another galaxy far far away) to learn how much you would have in savings if you live a modestly frugal life at a productive endeavor, saved what you could, and had ZERO drag from predators-DBA-government and predators-DBA-banksters your entire working life.  You'd be so freaking rich that you'd happily help true, honest, legit unfortunates... AND have a very, very comfortable retirement.

If you don't focus on what is productive --- if you only focus on how many fiat, fake, fraud, fiction, fantasy, fractional-reserve debt-note toilet-paper digital dollars or euros people are paid --- you will always end up supporting endless predators and endless destruction, exactly like you do now.

PS:  If you TRULY LOVE "government", you are welcome to participate in as many "government programs" like "social security" and "unemployment" and "health-care" and "disability insurance" as you want.  I am all for that --- you deserve exactly what you get.  What you are NOT welcome to is any ability to force anyone else to join those programs, or to punish them in any way for not joining.  You will undoubtedly say "that doesn't work", which exposes you as the parasite and predator YOU ARE.

Mon, 03/18/2013 - 00:20 | 3341124 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Everywhere you look in history, the strong always take from the weak, unless somehow deterred.  Because of this truth, the world you covet will never exist.  You and your offspring will forever exist in a world where the strong always take from the weak, unless deterred.  And that deterrence will always be a cost center, never a profit center - regardless of who is doing the deterrence.  Human nature being what it is, we can never squeeze out all inefficiencies from any economic system we subscribe to.

Your posts demonstrate a woeful lack of understanding of human nature and what government programs / workers actually do.

Mon, 03/18/2013 - 01:19 | 3341224 honestann
honestann's picture

You would be correct... if your premise that "humans are fundamentally, necessarily, eternally predators, not producers" was correct.

The problem with your position is this.  Without production (creation of goods that would not otherwise have existed without purposefully productive human actions), the natural processes of earth are sufficient to support perhaps 1 million human beings.

Look around.  You'll find 7 billion human beings, not 1 million.  Therefore, if you measure the nature of human beings by what percentage of goods consumed are produced rather than naturally generated by the environment and then just grabbed (predator style), humans are producers by a 7000:1 margin.

I hope these simple facts, which might be off by a factor of 2x or perhaps even 5x, make you sit up and think... honestly think... about your position.  You have been totally wrong.

Once upon a time, 10,000 years ago, humans were predators, just like all animals.  Today, you'd have to kill off the vast majority of human beings for humans to return to being predators.  This is simple fact.

You advocate a world operated under the modus-operandi of predators, which is "get away with whatever you can".

I, and every honest, ethical, productive, benevolent human being advocates a world operated under the ethics of producers.  What is that ethics?  Reduced to its core, legitimate, fundamental nature, real, natural ethics is "causality applied to human actions".

Put more concretely, ethics exists when every individual enjoys/bares/suffers 100% of the consequences of his own actions, and enjoys/bares/suffers ZERO consequences from the actions of other humans.  If you produce something, it is yours... because you caused it to exist.  You are its creator.  The term "owner" simply recognizes your causal connection to those goods and goodies you produce.  Period.

You talk about human nature.  Humans are born pretty much tabula rasa, excluding only very fundamental structural physiological elements like "pain" and "pleasure".  Therefore, you are responsible for your own human nature.  Your personal human nature is whatever you make it, or allow it to be made by others.

Yes, the predators are in virtually complete control of propaganda, from authoritarian and/or clueless parents to authoritarian and/or clueless elementary school to mainstream media to government to corporations and so forth.  If you let them program your brain, your nature will indeed become that of parasite, parasite-supporter, predator-supporter and/or predator to varying degrees (whatever you allow).  And your brain controls your actions, so your practices will generally follow.

EVEN SO, the predators don't want everyone to become parasites and predators!  No freaking way!  The predators are not stupid.  The predators understand the following:

If all producers die (or become parasites or predators), all production ends and almost everyone will die.  They know very clearly that earth cannot support anywhere near 1% of the current population without producers.  And they have no desire to fight it out with 7 billion other predators for the few natural seats on planet earth.

So producers brainwash the vast majority of humans, who are simply stark raving bananas chimps, to perform productive actions --- then steal the majority of what is produced.  But they also brainwash the vast majority of human chimps to support the predators, usually on the basis of the incredibly lame but amazing justification that producers must be sucked almost dry in order to keep the parasites alive (plus the small minority of legitimate unfortunates).

So even though the vast majority of humans do in fact intellectually advocate predator modus-operandi and predator powers and the predators themselves, a large but dwindling minority of humans are in fact (in action) net producers in action.  But even with only 35% to 45% of humans being net productive, they generate sufficient goods and goodies to keep the top-level predators astronomically wealthy, the rest of the predators fat and happy, and the brainwashed-and-bred-to-be lazy 40% to be satisfied with a few crumbs remaining after the predators take the vast majority of goods and goodies stolen from the producers.

I understand human nature better than you and 99.99999% of the population of earth will ever understand.  And I know all I need to know about "government programs" the moment I know they are financed by overt theft by predators against producers.  Any justification you make for government is precisely the same as advocating we let mass murders free... as long as they give 5% of everything they steal for lazy bum voters.  That a tiny percentage of their theft accidentally benefits a few legitimate unfortunates makes zero difference to any sane being.  In fact, it makes it worse in practice, because that's part of what keeps fools like you supporting the racket that is the predators-that-be and predator-class.

The fact is, you simply LIE when you claim the strong always take from the weak... and you make that LIE even greater when you emphasize always.  The FACT is, many strong human beings were massive producers and by their nature massively benevolent and beneficial to other humans in many ways.  But yes, some percentage of the lot of strong human beings became overt predators --- and have now destroyed mankind thanks to apologists like you.

Mon, 03/18/2013 - 02:11 | 3341283 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Wow.  Just ... wow.  I was advocating nothing.  Other than suggesting that you become better educated about the world in which you live.  But nevermind.  The world you've created in your own head seems to be all you need.

Unfortunately, there is a reality out there totally at odds with what you are posting here.  Perhaps you can visit it some day.

In the meantime, I invite you to visit South Central Los Angeles for first-hand examples of what I am talking about re.alpha males dominating everyone else.

Mon, 03/18/2013 - 22:56 | 3341556 honestann
honestann's picture

The 4-trillion per year the top predators steal and spend every year fixed that just fantastically, right?  I'm sure taking guns away from all law-abiding folks helps a lot too, so only your alpha-predator-friends have guns.  Yeah, your pro-predator ideas help a lot.

Mon, 03/18/2013 - 00:26 | 3341142 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

bravo

Mon, 03/18/2013 - 00:55 | 3341194 Professorlocknload
Professorlocknload's picture

Government "Worker"= Civil Service Welfare Recipient

They aren't just non productive, they exist to hinder productivity, and thereby divert capital from other wise productive endeavor.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 19:52 | 3340312 Element
Element's picture

I'd love to see you on Dr Phil or Oprah, that's some TV I'd pay good money to watch. Just to see the look on their faces, and the look on yours. It would be like watching anti-matter in a blender :D

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 19:07 | 3340170 daneskold
daneskold's picture

YOUR DEPOSIT IS TRANSITORY!

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 19:12 | 3340186 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

 

Why do we need private banks to control our currency?

 

Signed,

Cypriot Depositor

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 19:23 | 3340227 slightlyskeptical
slightlyskeptical's picture

We don't. The private banks need us to allow them to control the currency.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 19:13 | 3340189 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

They shudda just hypothecated the whole thing.

 

Signed,

J Corzine

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 20:28 | 3340406 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

They would have, but oops, there is no collateral left.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 19:14 | 3340194 OptionNinjaNYC
OptionNinjaNYC's picture

EUR broke the neckline on its daily chart today. The next logical target is 1.25, even though the H&S Top MM puts the target at 1.24. Either way, its a 500 – 600 pips move to the DOWNSIDE.

http://wallstreetfool.com/2013/03/17/markets-in-turmoil-cyprus-bank-run-...

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 19:25 | 3340234 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

They might as well take 20% while they still control the paper money. No matter what number they pick, there will be a run on the banks leading to a collapse. The Gubmint might as well take as much as they want.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 19:27 | 3340243 dunce
dunce's picture

Does anyone else find it amusing that they defined economic justice down to two decimal points of a %, or 4 decimal points of a whole number? What a fine sense of morality they must have.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 19:41 | 3340285 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

Last year the EU was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

This year they will be taking it.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 20:04 | 3340346 guuske12
guuske12's picture

although i agree that all these european leaders are a bunch of criminals, they are not so stupid that they don't forsee this mess and  bankruns following. They have though about it, looked at other options, decided there is just no solution anymore with money from the north being tranferred to the south without any prospects, so they have chosen to stop kicking the tin through the alley and they are ready to let the system implode by confiscating all savings of all the people in Europe. We all know it was going to end with a bang, and this is the bang they have chosen for. Divide and rule , the poor with no savings( and there are a lot of them....) will laugh with it, screaming"get the money where it is !! " . The dark ages have returned, a totallary system will be installed, and Ayn Rand will laugh i her grave, her head resting on her masterpiece "Atlas Schrugged", and the new   Elite will form their state with  powers that are beyond imagination. 

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 20:07 | 3340358 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Open season for those in the country to hunt down the bansters responsible.

Like the Nazi squads in WWII.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 20:16 | 3340367 minakaze
minakaze's picture

best news ever!!! thought they coudn't get more idiotic, but here we go again!! I just love it, that makes the euro crash against the yen like no tomorrow and i'll bag the profit..... thanks you morronic EU and IMF!!!

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 20:16 | 3340368 minakaze
minakaze's picture

best news ever!!! thought they coudn't get more idiotic, but here we go again!! I just love it, that makes the euro crash against the yen like no tomorrow and i'll bag the profit..... thanks you morronic EU and IMF!!!

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 20:39 | 3340439 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

The best thing would be if the Cyprus Parliament rejects the deal completely, lets the banks fail, and leaves the Euro. Then the depositors take a 40-60% haircut, and the bond and stock holders become big empty bagholders.

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 21:18 | 3340566 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Run away....

Mon, 03/18/2013 - 01:03 | 3341208 Professorlocknload
Professorlocknload's picture

And don't look back!

Sun, 03/17/2013 - 23:19 | 3340945 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

"...they could see the higher rate increase to as much as 12.5 per cent while the smaller deposits could be about 3.5 per cent"

Oh, good!  "Tax the Rich".   Just the thing to get the economically-envious peasants on board...

Mon, 03/18/2013 - 01:07 | 3341216 Professorlocknload
Professorlocknload's picture

George O again.     < Euro 100,000  Four Legs

                             > Euro 100,000  Two legs

Split 'em up and step on 'em.

Mon, 03/18/2013 - 02:33 | 3341308 Youri Carma
Youri Carma's picture
They’re hubris or arrogant if you will, which sometimes makes you do things which unintended consequences can be underestimated upfront. The loss of confidence in the system over all when fleecing ordinary savers can’t be measured against short term motives in money or political feelings of revenge. That’s a very short sighted way of doing political business. The grandeur of Germany’s export capabilities only go so far. And Germany is parasitical thriving on Europe’s miseries keeping the Euro low. At least too low for German standards.
Mon, 03/18/2013 - 04:47 | 3341453 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

All that's missing now is a USD/EUR swap agreement to "stop the contagion from spreading to the USA"

Come on BernanQE, I darez ya.

For anyone feeling the Bernank needs some goading that account on twitter is @FederalReserve

Mon, 03/18/2013 - 04:53 | 3341456 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

In Soviet Cyprus, banker gives haircut to barber!

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