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What Cyprus Would Look Like In The US
Cyprus is now old news: local (and Russian... and UK... and European) depositors will see anywhere between 3% and 13% (or more) of their deposits, depending on what the "fair" threshold of a "lot" of money is determined to be in the first revision to the deposit tax levy, confiscated and in return they will get "equity" in broke banks, and maybe some gas-linked bonds. That much we know. The question then becomes: what would "Cyprus" look like if it took place in the US? Below, courtesy of William Banzai, is one artist's impression...
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Somebody call a cop! Oh wait.
Cyprus in the US would of course be spelled Cypress
+1000 !!!
Cypress Hill?
Where's the "bend over and cough" sign?
Insane in the Membrane
FDIC: Fool's Deposits Imminently Corzined!
FDIC = Fucked Depositors Instantly Castrated
Something to ponder..
Fed’s Decontamination and Inoculation Crew
I had a relative that worked on the periphery of the banking scam describe what it was like when an FDIC team swept in to close a failed bank.. Yes, they protected the average depositor but the process sounded more like a sterilization of the infected premises so as not to permit contagion.
at least we would be helping the environment
"let the sun shine...let the sun shine in..."
We gave half your money to the UAW
MOAR JAABS
When clowngress mandates that IRAs and 401-Ks have a mandatory 50% allocation of US Tbonds, they will get the last laugh.
Governments and banksters are going to Corzine nearly every investor/saver on the planet.
Perhaps better Cypress would be Kissiminmy-arse!
I think that's next to Disney World
It is ok: this EU-imposed "wealth tax" gives Italy another reason to stay in the EU. Oh wait.
I know I'll get flamed for this comment, but here goes.
As a US bank customer I worried all weekend and thought of escape routes. Then it dawned on me there really is nothing to worry about. Why? TARP already happened.
The major US banks went thru the same thing as Cypress in 2008, and instead of "taxing" deposits, congress and the fed printed. We still have POMO and all the other quasi bailouts going on. As long as the fed can print and buy back treasuries, the game goes on.
Yes, I am stacking both PMs and mattress filler for the day that record stops playing. But I think it will be decades and only after Europe, UK and Japan have their final reckoning.
As those dominoes fall the dollar and US stocks will be safe havens.
WB7 getting some love on another website:
http://www.2acheck.com/confiscation-whos-in-your-wallet/
If the intent of the Euro-dopes was to make "cash in one's pocket" 5-15 percent more valuable than "cash on deposit", then I guess this is their Mission Accomplished moment.
Let it burn.
BTW,There's around 15 billion Euro paper notes in circulation in various abb-bab-aboma-d-d-denominations floating around the EU......
http://www.ecb.int/stats/euro/circulation/html/index.en.html
I say, let 'em CRUSH.
Good point. Aren't the banks going to be crushed by this?
If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would suggest that Cypriot banks are being intentionally hit by the dreaded "liquidity crunch" that tends to result in the JP Morgan's of the world scooping up banks for pennies on the dollar. But that would most certainly be crazy wacko conspiracy theory talk.
I mean, it's not like Russia is a threat to the petrodollar or anything. And even if they were, Russians don't have any money in Cyprus, right?
"We'll be fine."
We're known world wide for our freedom and normalcy bias.
We've got drones overhead.....but they're on strict orders not to kill us. Thanks Rand.
"We've got drones overhead.....but they're on strict orders not to kill us."
Due to my lack of creativity and low level of intelligence and productivity, I must confiscate the above portion of your comment. I'm only taking about 30% of the post. It's for the greater good.
Looks like over 50% to me. You're either seasonally adjusting it, or you work for the government and you're here to help us.
Three sentences. (CPI chained)
0ne of three = 33.33333%
Round down for propagandic effect.
Government accounting 101
The MSM just keeps repeating, "This is Cypress, this could never happen in the US."
Keep repeating because when you keep saying something over and over it magically becomes true.
Me thinks history already shows that US citizens were "encouraged" to turn in their gold.
From wiki.
Executive Order 6102 is an Executive Order signed on April 5, 1933, by U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion, and Gold Certificates within the continental United States". The order criminalized the possession of monetary gold by any individual, partnership, association or corporation.
Yup, could never happen in the good ole US of A. People "hoarding" money in bank accounts just disgusts me.
I won the PowerBall! I won the Powerball! I won the Powerball......etc. etc. - I hope it works!
Cramer thinks Cypress is still a good deal since people were getting 5%
Define "We". /s
Many would request the other half be converted too...since free cars and energy rock!
Everything OK. OBAMA would never do this... :)
This is the proof in my eyes that we can not trust OB. If he was of honest intent, he'd have done Cyprus in the USA with a 10 million threshold. That would have fixed the inequality of the system overnight. And it'd be fair. And morally correct, furthermore, it'd set the right lesson to the 0.01% abusing the other 99.99%. I know some innocents would be hit, but lets be honest, for the funcioning of a society, what is more important to take 1M$ from somebody that has 10M$ or to bankrupt all the middle class and the poor for generations to come and to teach our kids that saving is stupid and profligacy pays off big time? What is the cost to Society in General of doing that? Has any economist put value to it? I say it is in the 100 trillion range of todays dollars, just a napkin calculation.
Compare a one time wealth tax and the truly rich >10M$ versus a hidden inflation tax, through monetization of debts and money injection? What is for Society?
Monetization and inflation only concentrates wealth more, since the middle class and the poor can not defend themselves, and it is open war for the upper classes to see who lands on top. Thus missdirecting the efforts of the people that should be concentrated on producing wealth to the sad task of infighting to preserve their wealth.
Medicines need to be taken suddenly speeding up the pain and then focusing on recovery and not slowly spreading out the pain for generations like we are shamelessly doing right now.
That is why I do not trust the intentions of our current leaders. They are clearly choosing the path that will hurt the most people and doing it in a way that they won't understand it until it is too late. What othe proof do you need?
Cyprus at the least was an honest attempt towards fairness, honesty and minimizing the impact on inequality. The problem is that it is too little too late, for the wrong reasons and in the wrong place. But if you have read about the butterfly effect, who knows?
All that said, I do believe in the Theory of Perspectives of Kahneman, therefore, all our understanding of what is going on is merely an illusion that our brains create to keep us sane. So, lets start the music and dance again, the party is still on, at least for now, so lets go and enjoy.
Until next time,
Engineer
"Cyprus at the least was an honest attempt towards fairness, honesty and minimizing the impact on inequality."
Are you a Marxist ? FAIR is the usual impairment structure...equities, unsecured bonds, secured bonds, then depositors. THAT's what's fair. No, just like GM, TPTB sought to penalize every one but themselves.
"If he was of honest intent, he'd have done Cyprus in the USA with a 10 million threshold. That would have fixed the inequality of the system overnight. And it'd be fair. And morally correct, furthermore, it'd set the right lesson to the 0.01% abusing the other 99.99%."
Yes, he's a Marxist.
Put the crack pipe down bro.
you gotta read your Machiavelli. If you are going to do something painful, do it all at once. When you dole out goodies, do it a little at a time.
I see, I see. But not down to 5-3. ;-)
Inside joke, having to do with the jpg of his moniker.
Doling out goodies a little at a time is very painful to the doler
Looks like you've got some pretty good illusions going, yourself. Primarily, statism.
Yes, after all, those rich people keep all/most/some of their cash deposits in the U.S.
Oh, wait.
(mind you, this is from HuffPo!)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/22/super-rich-offshore-havens_n_16...
-1000
aaannnddd...it's gone.
Note from Cyprus:
"Send Moar KY! "
We've already sent the $250 million we had left after the sequester to Egypt.,,,,but we might be able swing a special tour of our Whitehouse for you.
Bring cookies for the bake sale.
Just make sure your papers are in order first.
Got my Kenyan birth certificate, right here.
Is that Hank Paulson, former Sec of Treasury and Goldman CEO ? I thought he had retired to watch butterflies in Central Park. Maybe times are so tough that he needed to go back to work as a bank guard.
It will be converted to Treasuries. 100 year maturities with a negative yield. Pay up bitches.
Please, we don't need to give them any more ideas on how to screw us.
please edit that so the bitchez banksters don't see it.
- Edit
If you own real assets there is nothing to convert
Good point.
"It will be converted to Treasuries."
Details of the plan:
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2012/wp12202.pdf
Just glancing at the introduction, seperating money from credit and having full reserve for demand deposits seems pretty reasonable to me.
On the other hand, some of the other changes would, I suspect, lead to higher inflation.
Tony Baloney, made of 90% horse meat.
Whore's meat.
Sheesh. American edumacations.
Coming soon to a Banana Republic near you.
Gives the phrase "Being on the take" a whole new edgy meaning.
We already are share holders, at gunpoint, in a number of broke businesses. William's picture is merely documenting fact.
Hey...... the Fed is already draining your bank account.... ITS CALLED QE....... Coming soon.... turn in your $10 bill for the NEW DOLLAR.... ve have ways of dealing vit you indigent peoples.... However prices will remain in the OLD DOLLAR. nothing to see here....move along....
Bank deposits in Cyprus get 4% interest rate ..less 3% tax your still up1% ....what do we get .001%...Cyprus sounds like a bettter investment ......
Relax, Your money is so SAFE, even YOU can't get at it...
There are several volcanoes in the Med area and plenty of water----more wash for the hog
http://news.yahoo.com/earthquakes-turn-water-gold-180356174.html
Shouldn't it read, "What will Cyprus look like in the US?"
This idea was first spoken from the slime ball Jessie Jackson a few weeks ago - give credit where it is due.
And so now we understand why the US government wants to confiscate guns.
At least we'll still have bulldozers.
Eh....to me it just serves them all right for trusting the maniac central planning bankster crooks!
They'll keep trusting them and getting robbed until one day they're making horse bone soup for dinner.
BTW....does the fat chick in the 'Date Older Women' ad look like an ominous 'market top' indicator? We used to have ads for underage Ukrainian girls!
I get ads for lingerie, silver, gold, boots, and pants, things I have been shopping for...
http://www.victoriassecret.com/
http://www.zappos.com/prana-satori-pant-black
http://www.zappos.com/xcvi-willowy-wide-leg-stretch-poplin-pant-black?zl...
What are you shopping for?
LOL I dont know....I never clicked on any mail order chicks ad myself!
I got that ad a couple of days ago that you're talkin' about. Man, that cow had thighs bigger than my wife's waist. Gak!
I'm pretty sure some of those ads are generated by looking at the content of the articles here at ZH. I can't think of any other explanation.
My husband asked what the ad for Dating Asian Chicks Online was about. Quite frankly, I didn't know what to tell him. I guess it's from viewing so much of WmBanzai's work because (really) I can't think of any other link, and he's not around the computer enough to generate a cookie trail.
They're more entertaining than most, though.
@MsCreant
You're shopping for $130 clown pants? WTF.
Comfy pants that accent a small waist. No worries, not buying those (one color is on sale). But I am getting ads for them because I looked at them.
What about these?
http://www.amazon.com/Clouds-Bell-Bottoms-Teeki-eco-friendly/dp/B0096HGJ...
Suggestion: go for organic bamboo or hemp blended with organic cotton, much better materials.
Style wise, being frank, as they say in the south, those pants are a "hot mess". Knowing nothing about what you look like, I would generally suggest that a mid-length skirt or "good butt jeans" are going to get you a lot more mileage in the "looking sexy" department than really any "comfy pant" ever invented.
Fat older women. Another form of austerity, Comrade.
Why would any sane person have the majority of their money in any European bank, or even ANY bank for that matter, after this.
BTW I hope this happens in the US. Maybe then we can finally find that reason to start shooting bankers.
Who said we need a reason? I just need someone to help load them in the launcher....PULL!
And how could anyone actually still believe the 'all is well we got this shit fixed' line after a weekend where depositors lost 10% just like that?
Imagine an overnite -10% in broad US equities one morning!
Exactly Daddy Bernanke's thoughts. Bernanke has been stealing from bank/money market institutions for 5 years and peole refuse to move their money.
the wealthy are in the cayman islands
Chronologically along in this collapse are we at the point now, given events in Cyrus, when the red phone rings à la the film A Cabin In The Woods?
Let's get this week started !!!!
Why waste time and legislative legerdemain going after the 401K's when the Muppets still have vast sums in the TBTF Banks? Obama can call up Romney and the Bain Guys and have them handle the haircut.
depositors will see anywhere between 3% and 13% (or more) of their deposits
Mr. Owl, what percent of panicked depositors would it take to create a bank run in [fill in country]?
(And so if [China] launched a virus to disable a couple of major U.S. banks' ATM networks...)
"depositors will see anywhere between 3% and 13% (or more) of their deposits"
Yeah, I was wondering if they just decided this via random lottery or something. Like "hey, you're deposit account number 12842, congrats, you only get 3% of your cash stolen today! Look at you, big winner you!"
I have all my money in the First National Bank of Intercourse, PA. At least now I can't say 'I didn't know I was gonna get fucked by my bank...'
The banks in the use do this via fiat Account Fees. Monthly.
E.g., A friend noticed that his HSBC account now has a $50 Monthly fee. Do the math what that amounts to on an annual balance - Cyprus style!
Yeah but this is okay because though Solyndra is defunct, it was green and was part of Obummer's green shoots strategy. Plus it was diverse. As we all know, if something is green and diverse, it's good. Very good.
Coming up next, Gold Sniffing Attack Dogs.
Gold Sniffing Attack Drone Dogs, to put a fine point on it. Even Mr. Incredible stands no chance.
"In two years federal medical spending along with Social Security and interest will, on current paths, reach the total of all tax receipts". Karl Denniger
Then the US will be Cyprus
The budget fight in Washington, which entered a new round last week as Senate Democrats and House Republicans introduced dueling plans, is usually cast as a contest between raising taxes and cutting spending. In fact, the taxes-versus-spending distinction is largely meaningless.
Each year, the government doles out tax breaks worth $1.1 trillion. That is more than the cost of Medicare and Medicaid combined. It is more than Social Security. It tops the defense budget, and it tops the budget for nondefense discretionary programs, which include most everything else.
Tax breaks work like spending. Giving a deduction for certain activities, like homeownership or retirement savings, is the same as writing a government check to subsidize those activities. Functionally, they mimic entitlements. Like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, they are available, year in and year out, in full, to all who qualify. Yet in budget talks, Republicans ignore tax entitlements, which flow mostly to high-income taxpayers, while pushing to cut Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.
President Obama and Congressional Democrats have rightly asserted that tax breaks are ripe for cuts that could raise revenue without hurting most taxpayers. One method, as presented in the Senate Democratic plan, is to convert tax deductions, which increase in value as income rises, to tax credits, which would provide benefits more broadly and evenly among low-, middle- and high-income households.
Tax deductions, however, are only one kind of tax break. Many others take the form of arrangements that allow wealthy taxpayers to either escape tax entirely on specific transactions or to defer it indefinitely.
read on....
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/opinion/sunday/the-real-spending-probl...
hey, old sot ,, b glutton...tax breaks are evil, but taxes to fund .gov are well heaven's dues for the great society..
never a thought to just stop the income tax, go back to the tarrif system the USSA used until W Wilson gang got hold of .gov. no no lets just point out how well connected elite get breaks in our socialist utopia. and promptly every demorat and repub makes sure they get even more, while our MSM lies and lies about how the o buma a crowd loves the poor ..so many jerks not seeing the tax system was made to keep the elite on top.
US Banks - "Your deposits were required to pay claims in accordance with new US bankruptsy laws to holders of derivitives who are the same US banks that have your deposits. Your money is safe and secure and in the same bank, it's just not yours anymore."
Perhaps One small way to avoid a Bank account tax ia to move money out of savings accounts into checking accounts. If they taxed checking accounts then a lot of checks would suddenly bounce. Corporate payrolls would be missed and it would likely cause many business to default. I suspect any bank taxes would only affect savings accounts. Moving cash from savings accounts to checking accounts might avoid the tax. Considering that US saving accounts earn nothing, moving cash to checking accounts is a non-issue.
Yes you could move all out, but I suspect most people need to keep some cash available for living expenses, and emergencies. I don't think it possible to withdrawl every penny without causing day-to-day issues.
As far as Retirement IRA's, One could switch to Roth IRAs. After 5 years in a Roth you can withdraw your money with out the 10% penality tax. Of course you make not have five years left before something significant happens. FWIW, in 2013 there is no wage limit for Roth. Prior to this year, singles making more than 95K or married making more than 120K were except from Roths.
'I suspect any bank taxes would only affect savings accounts.'
Incorrect. The plan in Cyprus is to tax ALL deposits.
Brokerage accounts too, at least that is what I read on Market Ticker this morning.
"Yes you could move all out, but I suspect most people need to keep some cash available for living expenses, and emergencies. I don't think it possible to withdrawl every penny without causing day-to-day issues."
Let's think about that for a second. What your really saying is "keep some federal reserve notes on deposit at a bank for living expenses, and emergencies". In an emergency, what good is having FRN's on deposit at a bank? What living expenses can't be paid for via FRN's that are actually in hand? Also remember, if the shit hits the fan with FRN value, what do you have available that is money?
"What living expenses can't be paid for via FRN's that are actually in hand?"
Mortgage, Credit card, invoices handled using electronic payments. I would recommend mailing cash to pay a bill since it will likely magically vanish. Many retail stores do not take cash for major purchases. And using PMs for transactions: Forgetaboutit. Best to hold on to PMs until the crisis really gets going.
" if the shit hits the fan with FRN value, what do you have available that is money?"
This isn't about WTSHTF, its about options to avoid gov't theft of savings (none inflationary related)h
Most of us are conditioned to chase yield even with the microscopic differences that don't reflect the rather large spread in risk between cash and money markets. the Fed has been parking cash in MM, M2 partly to keep rates down, and to back the investment. if you recall some bank customers lost money in MM accounts in 2008. the BOJ did this for years, just another sign of desperation that our Fed has to follow Japans exact deflationary collapse (whats next, exploding nuclear power plants?). In theory savings accounts are safer, as checking account balances are swept up after close of business every day, and counted as bank assets, which means who knows what kind of crazy thing they are doing with your money in the overnight forex markets. I know my CU sleeps on my money, and that's why I am there.
Eagerly awaiting Nigel Farage "I told you so, and next..." tirade in European Parliment and Grillo's reaction.
Why should depositors to an institution be sacrosant? Where did this notion come from? While I disagree they should be the only one taking a hair cut (hello? bond holder?), there was a time where it was up to the ->depositor<- to use their good judgment on what bank to place their funds and other valuables.
Unfortunately, just like the corporatism that props up the financial institutions, deposit insurance has done the same to individuals. In a real capital market any "deposit insurance" would be provided by a third party or soley the reputaiton of the institution. And there would be no government backdoor financing of the bank.
Ms. LaGarde, what brings you to ZH?
But Haole, isn't this the same arguement for not storing BTC at Mt. Gox?
Why deposit with a risky institution and then cry when the risky-I fails to adequitely protect our deposits?
Persons using banks deserve what they get. We know who butters the banks bread. We know who pulls the banks strings. At least here at ZH I imagine only a minority is suprised by the confiscation. Why are we surprised that depositors take the hit?
But there is deposit insurance, and it is being uncovered as a fraud and a lie with this. You and I know that there is no guarantee with a fractional reserve system (logic forbids a guarantee), but the general public is not educated and they are told there is one. I suppose you have no bank account at all then? Because if you do, by your logic, you deserve it if they just randomly take the funds from you one day.
I agree with your post in a general kind of way, but savers are being made to pay for the bad bets of gamblers and that is not written into the contract when you open up a bank account.
Yes, unfortunately we all are forced into the fdic. As to its viability, clearly it can only handle so many failures at one one. To date though I do not know of an instance where insured depositors were left hanging.
I guess my broader point is that government sanctioned/supported deposit insurance also heavily distorts the system. It makes it far easier for the banks to be reckless and depositors compound the problem by putting their money anwhere.
We agree-- moral hazard. No consequences for bad behavior, only rewards, equals more bad behavior.
Does the regular depositor have sufficient information, such that they can tell how well the bank is run? How frequently would they need to be updated, to know if the situation has changed?
Would depositors need information on the other depositors, to determine if those depoisitors might suddenly withdraw large amounts of money, causing the bank to run out of money? If so, would existing depositors need to agree to allow the new depositors to use the bank? Would each depositor then need to be updated on material changes to the financial status of any of the other depositors?
the problem being, i put my money in this bank because their reserves are the best! oh wait, that was all hot money! now i'm screwed
"there was a time where it was up to the ->depositor<- to use their good judgment on what bank to place their funds and other valuables."
I get where you are going, but even that doesn't take into account a government (at the behest of a super-government) swooping in over the weekend and taking your fucking money, regardless of where you bank.
lol
In the US you could just tell people they're getting a 93% return of their assets!
The difference is that when our money is confiscated through inflation, we don't get shares of anything.
You got the set of Ginsu Steak Knives when you opened the account. Would a few shares in Enron make you happy?
I was just trying my hand at sublime comedy while pointing out that there really is no difference besides the method by which the value is confiscated. The Cypriots can't confscate the value by printing bills so they just take the physical instead. No dif.
You can fleece a sheep many times, but you can only skin it once.
There is a huge difference between the slow theft by inflation, and the shocking sudden theft of outright ceasure that leads to widespread panic.
"No longer permitted...without a permit"?? Typical government-speak.
the GOP will protect our "gun" rights, but then its time for Bernanke to inflate the "gun" bubble, [gun made of gold costs the same as one made of steel] then the kicker, "would you be wanting ammuntion with that, well sign these papers.."
spot on, spot on.
In the New Amerikka, bank robs you.
Do to the spirit of fractional banking, might this have been inevitable? We've had faith in the lie for quite some time.
The good news is though that the useful-idiot-wanna-be-elites might begin to wake up, thus fueling the fire.