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Guest Post: The Real Reasons Why The Liberty Movement Is Preparing To Fight

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Brandon Smith of Alt-Market blog,

Years ago while writing for Neithercorp Press I penned an article entitled “One Day Soon, We’ll All Be Homegrown Terrorists”.  In that piece I described a not so far off future in which martial law, economic collapse, and the destruction of civil liberties stood imminent.  I related my views on the propaganda rhetoric of the SPLC, and how they were using false association to tie liberty groups to any deviant organization they could think of, including racists and domestic terrorists, in order to condition the American public to react to our message with immediate contempt. 

It became clear to me then that the SPLC, which had become the propaganda wing of the widely reviled Department Of Homeland Security, was helping set the stage for a paradigm shift in the U.S.  This shift would obviously include economic and social disruption, as well as political turmoil beyond anything our nation has seen for over 150 years.  But most importantly, it would pave the way for certain elements of the American populace, namely those who are awake, aware, and outspoken, to be labeled “enemy combatants” dangerous to the state.

Though posing as an anti-racist monitoring institution, the SPLC’s primary concern has never been the KKK or “White Identity”.  Rather, the SPLC’s job has been and always will be to marginalize and defame those who stand against centralized federal power, regardless of how corrupt that power has become.  They are not anti-racists, or liberals, or concerned citizens; they are STATISTS, who only care about maintaining the superiority of a government that has been bought and paid for many times over by a gaggle of international financiers with delusions of godhood.    

The SPLC, of course, has so far utterly failed in their efforts to stop the rise of Constitutional activists.  By their own admission, “patriot groups” have expanded exponentially since 2008, and continue to develop freely even in the face of wildly absurd character attacks taken from the amoral (immoral) guidebook of Saul Alinsky himself.  The truth, once realized, is difficult if not impossible to stop.

Unfortunately, the establishment understands this as well...

Given a few more years, the Liberty Movement will indeed prevail in the struggle for the “infowar”.  Naysayers who claimed we were merely an ineffective and irrelevant peripheral of society are now faced with a strong and growing minority which has the power to swing state and local elections, as we did in 2012, simply by refusing to vote for oath breaking Republicans, sending the message that if the Republican party ever wants to win again, they had better run honest Constitutionalists.  Those who claimed our message was “insane conspiracy theory” must now explain the indefinite detention and rendition provisions of the NDAA, the government approved unleashing of 30,000 surveillance drones in American skies, the Obama Administration's assassination list which includes U.S. citizens, and the push for gun registration and confiscation which is already beginning to take place in some states.

How did we know what was coming?  Was it intuition or lucky conjecture?  Neither.  All we had to do was look at the trends of the day and use logic to discern the most likely outcome.

Our concerns, which were once called “fringe”, are now going mainstream.  We were right, they were wrong.  Though, I wish we had been wrong…

Just as the public is on a shrinking timeline, so are the elites.  For every burst forward in our efforts to wake up the population to the loss of their freedoms and heritage, they must speed up their plans to gain economic and political supremacy.  The harder you pull on the ends of a frayed rope in opposite directions, the sooner it is going to snap.

Today, as never before, I believe our culture has reached the breaking point, which is why the SPLC has pushed their attacks on the Liberty Movement into overdrive with manipulative media hit pieces like this:



As well as their latest propaganda piece “The Year In Hate And Extremism”:

The SPLC plays the role of the frantic watchman, crying out at the approach of the Mongol hordes, but their childish and ill conceived methods continue to expose their true intentions.  Is the Liberty Movement preparing for war?  No, but we are preparing to defend ourselves.  Here are the SPLC assertions of why we are ready to fight, followed by the real reasons behind our preparations…

1)  Because Obama Is Half Black?

No.  Obama could be neon green and we couldn’t care less.  The SPLC attempts to equate the growth of “patriot groups” with the election of the first black president, while leaving out much more likely catalysts including our current economic spiral (which they often refer to as “conspiracy theory”), or the Obama Administration’s expansion and even application of numerous unconstitutional provisions, some of which were launched by the Bush Administration.

How does the SPLC explain the majority of the Liberty Movement’s staunch opposition to the Romney Campaign if all we cared about was race?  How do they reconcile the fact that we are just as critical of the Republican elite as we are of the Democrats?  What about the reality that many of our organizations (like Oath Keepers) are made up of numerous races and nationalities?

They never do.  They simply ignore this information as if it is not pertinent to the issue.  The truth is, Obama is a middle man, a mascot, an easily replaced muppet.  He is not our primary interest, and his color is meaningless.  The international banks that funded his campaign and whose members occupy numerous positions within the White House, though, ARE our primary concern.

2)  Because We Are Afraid Of An Economic Collapse That Will Never Come?

The SPLC refers to almost everything as “conspiracy theory” because they hope that the average American is too stupid to question their rhetoric.  Calling someone a “conspiracy theorist” is the modern equivalent of accusing a person of being mentally ill; the goal is to inoculate the public against anything they have to say before they say it, even if it is the unbridled truth. 

The SPLC has consistently shrugged off economic concerns as “paranoia”, but they never qualify their statements.  Years ago I openly challenged Mark Potok and the whole of the SPLC to a debate on the health of the U.S. economy, and I reassert that challenge today.  If they think our concerns are unfounded and a source of paranoia, then they should be willing to defend their position.  I believe our financial system is on the fast track to collapse for quite a few reasons, including the fact that:

Our official national debt stands at $16.6 trillion.  In 2008, the national debt was around $10 Trillion, meaning, we’ve added over $6 trillion in only 5 years.  (Gee, is it possible that this has pissed Americans off more than Obama’s ethnicity?) 

Real national debt including entitlement programs and future obligations is estimated between $60 Trillion and $120 Trillion. 

Our official debt to GDP ratio (the amount of capital our country generates versus what it owes) stands at 102%.  Historically, when a country crosses the 100% mark in its debt to GDP, there is a marked chance of economic crisis.  If you count all of the programs and entitlements that the Federal Government doesn’t include in its “official” arithmetic, our debt to GDP ratio is actually closer to 400%.  This means an economic crisis is ASSURED.

The Labor Department, using what they call “adjusted numbers” places unemployment at 7.9%.  Real unemployment including U6 measurements (those people who are underemployed, and those people who have been unemployed for so long they no longer receive benefits and are no longer counted by the government) stands at over 20%.

In 2009, 32 million Americans were enrolled in food stamps.  Today, that number has grown to 48 million.  That’s a 50% increase in only 4 years.

The number of people on standard disability has hit a record of 9 million, and has grown every month for the past 192 months.

For the past four years I have pointed out that China, our largest foreign creditor, only needs to do two things before dumping the dollar as the world reserve currency – find a consumer market source to replace the U.S., and, spread it’s own currency around the globe to create a viable alternative to the greenback. 

Today, China has announced a full blown transition into a consumer based economy and has established bilateral trade agreements with enough developing nations to easily replace the U.S. as an export market. 

This past month, China announced a massive “urbanization project” in which they will sell over $6 trillion in Yuan denominated bonds worldwide.  China has also surpassed the U.S. for the first time ever as the world’s largest trade market, meaning, the Yuan will now be more sought after than the Dollar as a global trade mechanism.  The Chinese are nearly ready to dump the dollar, causing an international chain reaction that will brutally devalue our currency. 

I think our economic worries are clearly reasonable…

3)  Because We Are Paranoid Over Unfounded Threats Of Martial Law?

In the calm before any great war, there is always an escalation of arms on both sides of the conflict.  Anyone who has carefully studied the history of modern warfare KNOWS an escalation when they see one.  At the same time, anyone who has studied the history of citizen disarmament knows that government restriction and confiscation of personal firearms almost always leads to genocide.  Over the past decade, we have seen blatant indications that domestic agencies of the Federal Government are in the midst of arms stockpiling, and, in the past two months, they are pushing harder than ever before to reduce the defensive capabilities of the American public.

The Department Of Homeland Security has in only a few years placed orders for ammunition totaling at least 1.6 billion rounds, and new orders indicate they may be accumulating over 2 billion rounds.  The DHS has initiated a disinformation campaign through the mainstream media claiming that this ammunition stockpile, which is to be delivered over the course of five years, is for “training purposes only”.  Here is the reality…

First, by the department’s own numbers, training and qualification exercises taking place in three facilities nationwide use a total of 15 – 20 million rounds of ammo yearly.  This means that if the DHS claims are true, they have ordered enough ammo to last a minimum of 75 years!  No government agency plans this far ahead.

Second, the DHS and most federal and state law enforcement agencies DO NOT use hollow point pistol ammo and expensive Sierra Match King hollow point sniper rounds for “training”.  Anyone who knows anything about combat simulation training knows that you use the cheapest plinking ammo you can find, and this includes the government.  The ammo purchased by the DHS is used for one thing only; killing people. 

Third, if this ammo is being used only for non-threatening purposes, then why is the DHS now redacting order requests in a ploy to hide what they are purchasing?

On top of this, why does the DHS need mine resistant armored vehicles? 



Or bullet resistant road booths?

Why is the DHS using training targets featuring children and pregnant women?  Why has the Federal Government put plans into motion to release 30,000 drones above our heads?  Why have they instituted the passage of the indefinite detention provisions of the NDAA which can be used to revoke the civil rights of anyone deemed an “enemy combatant” by the executive branch, including American citizens?  Why has Obama bypassed the Treason Clause of the U.S. Constitution in order to greenlight assassinations of American citizens?  Why has Attorney General Eric Holder stated that predator drones have not been ruled out as a weapon against American citizens on American soil?  Why has a branch of the military, Northcom, been deployed domestically in the U.S.?  Who are they here to fight?

The government is telling us, right to our faces, that they plan to use extraneous force against us, and where else would this force be initiated on such a scale except during martial law?  The extensive militarization of any domestic government agency requires as a response the extensive armament of the citizenry, otherwise, there is no deterrent to tyranny.

4) Because We Refuse To Accept That The World Is Changing Without Us?

This argument is based on a series of lies, the first one being that American culture needs to “progress with the times” and shake off the dead skin of old and “unpopular” principles.  Let’s set the record straight…

Some principles, like the liberties embodied in natural law and outlined in the U.S. Constitution, NEVER become outdated.  They exist in the heart of mankind, and will remain as long as humanity remains.  They cannot be erased, and they cannot be undone.  They are inherent and eternal. 

They can, however, be oppressed by those who seek to dominate the lives of others.  This is what the establishment today calls “progress”.  Their version of social order is not new, nor is it even clever.  It is archaic, and has taken many forms, including oligarchy, aristocracy, mercantilism, monarchy, totalitarianism, despotism, fascism, socialism, communism, globalism, etc., etc.  The goal is always the same; centralize as much power as possible into as few hands as possible while making the enslaved population as collectivized and dependent as possible. 

The Liberty Movement is not some dying vestige of America’s past clinging to an antiquated philosophy.  We are the new wave; the messengers of an ideal of freedom that in the grand scheme of history has been around for only a blink of an eye.  Constitutional liberty IS the progress that humanity has been waiting for.  We have only been led astray by those who would sell us on our own bondage. 

The SPLC and others within the establishment accuse the Liberty Movement of arming for conflict against the government.  I am here to tell them that is EXACTLY what we are doing.  We are arming because the establishment is arming against us.  Yes, we are a threat, but only to political and corporate criminals who use subversion and violence to wrest freedom from the hands of good people.  I am not afraid to openly admit it.  I and many others will fight against any measure or man that seeks to undermine the rights of the people or destroy the founding principles of this nation. 

We will not allow engineered economic collapse to go unpunished.  We will not allow internationalists to subdue American sovereignty.  We will not allow national gun registration or confiscation.  We will not allow martial law to be instituted.  We will not allow American citizens to be imprisoned or assassinated without trial.  We will not allow any presidential administration, black or white, Republican or Democrat, to become a De facto dictatorship with no accountability to the public.  

Regardless of what they might say about us in the future, these are the reasons why we will fight, and our pledges to resist are not empty assertions.  We will stop the course of tyranny from completing in this country and in this era, one way or another.  If this makes us “extremists”, or “terrorists”, then so be it.  I, for one, am tired of the long running game of lies and reserved rhetoric.  They know a fight is coming, and we know a fight is coming.  Let’s just admit it and be done with it.  Their greatest weakness is that they have to use deceit, propaganda, media monopoly, and false flag violence in order to convince the public that they are the “right side”.  All we have to do is continue telling the truth, and stand fast…


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Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:15 | 3350601 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture


Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:16 | 3350605 El Viejo
El Viejo's picture

First they came for the ___________ and I said nothing...


Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:27 | 3350644 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

 "The truth, once realized, is difficult if not impossible to stop."


It is not an easy task to unring a bell, nor to remove from the mind an impression once firmly imprinted there.*

*An analogy used to suggest the difficulty of forgetting information once it is known.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:30 | 3350657 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

off the top of my head, some global risks, what I am missing?


Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:36 | 3350675 DJ Happy Ending
DJ Happy Ending's picture

Maybe the Liberty Movement should consider using Alinsky's tactics against the SPLC.

That's the beautiful thing about tactics--they go both ways and can be used for good as well as evil.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:52 | 3350728 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Alinsky's ideas are a real part of the problem...You can do better than that.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:10 | 3350779 20834A
20834A's picture

Evil means NEVER lead to good ends.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:03 | 3351517 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

alot of the things the author claims he will not allow already have happened


so to me its all just bullshit rederick

there will not be a revolution

not going to happen

the cohesion of purpose does not exist

and the technology alone that you would stand against is insurmountable

your first task would have to be to take down the grid and that would put every american nuke plant on the path to a fukushima event

and please, i beg you, tell me you arent that stupid

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:33 | 3351587 j0nx
j0nx's picture

Did you mean rhetoric?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 14:54 | 3353370 akak
akak's picture

What's the matter, can't you read?

its all just bullshit rederick

CLEARLY he was talking about "Red Erik", a.k.a. Erik the Red.

Everyone knows that you can't have a revolution, or nuclear power, without Vikings!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:59 | 3351703 PrintemDano
PrintemDano's picture

John Q....Your ignorance vis a vis "the grid", and "nuke plants".is showing.....please tell me you aren't that stupid

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 09:24 | 3351830 jughead
jughead's picture

Please, I beg you, tell me that you are not falling to your knees and surrendering before the battle has even begun. 


...and I believe that "stupid" would be the person who calls other people stupid but can't spell "rhetoric". 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 10:01 | 3351966 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture



You're a moron! The author has indeed put his money where his mouth is and if you would make sure your mind is running before putting your mouth in gear(or keyboard), then you wouldn't make a fool of yourself!


Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:10 | 3350780 20834A
20834A's picture

Evil means NEVER lead to good ends.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:25 | 3350829 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Oh, I don't know...I'm having success using some of them.

One has to use the language the enemy understands, against them ;-)

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 00:25 | 3351090 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

If you're an Illinoisan, on facebook (GASP)! 

check it out. Fuck the alphabets. We have made a dent through information, witness slips and meeting IN PERSON. If you fear online tracking, you're already fucked for being here. Join the party!


Love, Gooch.



Wed, 03/20/2013 - 07:23 | 3351454 bonderøven-farm ass
bonderøven-farm ass's picture

..........or add that we don't have a right to the food of our choosing....

Follow the Vernon Hershberger case in WI...

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 11:13 | 3352233 MSimon
MSimon's picture

Or the medicine of our choosing.

There are more endocannabinoid receptors in the body than any other receptor type.

The endocannabinoid system is a major regulator in the body implicated in almost all diseases including cancer.

Medical Marijuana prohibition is a crime against humanity and a violation of the religious precept - heal the sick.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 12:03 | 3352426 akarc
akarc's picture

Here comes my million or so down votes. for close to 40 years I have been fighting the system and for 40 years I have listened to people full of crap. The question becomes, if the liberty movement has not yet hit the streets, then when?  When it is to late? Where are the guerrilla actions?

Where are the masses that got sick and tired of vietnam. Where have the constitutionalists and the oath keepers been while the rights of innumerable individuals have been and continued to oppressed.

No matter what one may think of Occupy (hello they were against wall street and the banks) masses of totalitarian thugs swarmed down on unarmed americans and gassed them, beat the hell out of them, enjoyed the shit out of it (Homeland Security, your enemy,was there. Where were you?) and did all  they could to keep them from exercising their constitutional rights.  Where were the oath keepers and the constitutionalists???  Remember Niemoller ( So often quoted yet so often ignored. You support constitutional rights then you support the constitutional rights of all, not pick and choose whose rights get supported and whose don't or you are as guilty as the freaking government!   I can not tell you how many orgs I have seen advocate their rights while discounting the rights of others.

But then getting out in the streets and taking action requires one leave the safety of their screen name and take risks that can lead to loss of all the creature comforts one has collected over the years. It could lead to loss of job and the ability to pay Caesar. It could lead to the loss of all the gold laying at the bottom of the stream.

Kinda liked the the MC group US defenders made up of a heap of corrections folk who have no idea who started the group.  Though I must say, it was brillance.  They hit all the doggy runs but can't think of anyones rights they have defended.  

Abbie Hoffman and others profited from that eras revolution. So hell, may as well go to Oath-keepers site and buy a hat. I'll give em 10,000 up votes for being able to get people to upvote them in the first place.

"Freedoms just another word for, nothing left to lose"

Which begs the question, are you free if you do not have a computer?



Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:38 | 3354476 Tulpa
Tulpa's picture

Occupy was not exercising their constitutional rights in denying the use of public property to other citizens for long periods of time, and squatting on private property that did not belong to them, and blocking entrances to buildings.  They deserved everything they got.  And while they were anti-WS in their rhetoric, they were even more pro-government in practice.  Pro-govt means pro-WS, as we know.

While the ballot box and the courts are available we need to use those avenues for change.  As the Tea Party, which you seem to forget, have done.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:18 | 3350736 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I was never for the life of me to remembr numbers or events I was taught in school and I never remembered a bit of it. However, ask me about dates the times America has changed monetary systems, initiated wars, legislated away liberties and such and I can give you much of the details related.

Logical arguments and their supporting facts around the philosophy of liberty call roll off my tongue without the need for memorization.

Trust me, I'm a fuckig moron that scraped by with a B average and only possess a community college degree, but it is real easy to identify the huge fucking dildo that has been drilling me all my life. I just needed to catch a glance of it and the vision will never be forgotten, unlike the lost information that was spoon fed....I mean taught to me.

It is indeed true that one cannot un-see the visions of one's freedom and the machinations that suppress it.

This article was brilliant in the articulation of the realities and the crossroads in which we all sit today.

God bless my anus.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 04:15 | 3351268 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

School sucks, but what do I know? I'm a fucking moron too.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 23:55 | 3351043 TheProphet
TheProphet's picture

1 + 1 =2

-Winston Smith

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 23:55 | 3351044 TheProphet
TheProphet's picture

Winston had it figured

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 00:41 | 3351101 The Gooch
Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:39 | 3350660 CH1
CH1's picture

Lots of folks going Galt these days.

It's a good start, and a lot more effective than shooting.

Stop feeding and arming your enemy!

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:39 | 3350692 infinity8
infinity8's picture

Amen. And pass the butter, please.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:21 | 3350768 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I implore all to read the following, which was posted at The Economic Populist, and written by Numerian; it's one of "those rare essays" that is highly accurate in its analysis, and illustrates perfectly how the Ben Bernankes of the central banks around the globe are now on the cusp of destroying the current economic & monetary system (assign your own reasons to their actions or motives):

The War on Savers Heats Up

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:51 | 3350882 Element
Element's picture



Got this bit spot-on:

" ... If the people cannot have confidence that their laws will be faithfully honored, then there is no advantage to having a government, and if the social contract between the people and their government is fatally ruptured, the political order quickly collapses. The collapse need not be accompanied by riots in the street – not at first. The collapse occurs first in the mind, as citizens realize their country is only steps away from anarchy or dictatorship. ..."

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 00:39 | 3351082 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Numerian analyzes things really well.

He never panics. He never hyperventilates. He never screams that the end is nigh or engages in hyperbolic rantings.

And more importantly, he never underestimates the staying power of our current monetary, economic, socioeconomic systems, that were literally designed to rig the game and tilt the table towards those capturing the systemic levers for their parochial interests, while NOT stirring the masses.

Yet here he is, calmly warning that the collapse, which we may have begun to see, begins in the form of a person's perception that the social contract, built on concepts such as equal justice, fairness, honest reward & punishment meted out in measured doses...the social contract quid-pro-quo that is built on the foundation that the individual will follow constitutional laws and democratic processes as a productive citizen, and in exchange, the state will provide the large tasks of defending the borders, providing assistance at times of true disasters and in times of genuine emergency, and that the state will ensure no one or nothing meddles or interferes with the individual's right to do that which he or she does as a passion and/or livelihood, without creeping obstruction, harrassment and interference by the state itself, let alone doling out subsidies to competitors of that individual...

...that the collapse, which we may have begun to see, begins in the form of a person's loss of faith in the system...the social contract...within their own mind, using an objectively reasonable assessment of where things stand.

This collapse, if shared by enough people in their own observations and assessments of where things stand at any given moment, is the true catalyst for the tidal wave that shakes the foundation and turns the table upside down.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 01:08 | 3351127 Element
Element's picture

That inner collapse is not to be feared and it is most certainly not a problem, or the beginning of a problem, it is the dawning recognition of the truth of the system. A simple thing like an unpaid parking fine, that puts a person in the slammer, provides the starkest possible insight into the real nature of a state, its excess, it's impersonal brutishness, and its basic corruption, dis-proportionality and scope for terrible evil. One experience of the state's abuse is enough to fully and graphically reveal what your real relationship to the state is.  That thing you patriotically huff and puff about fixing, it's not fixable. You are its drone, its chattle, and it will fix you - period!

It's not that the person loses faith in the system, it's that the system abuses and mistreats the person so much, or so ruthlessly and unfairly, that it patently does not deserve one damn ounce/gram of that persons faith or support, and furthermore, to do so would be intrinsically immoral, and unjust, as it will only then inflict future abuses and on other people just like you.  And you can not reform it, and it is delusional to be trained to believe it can be reformed.

All you can do is deny it authority to govern you, moderate you, pilot you, manage you, classify you, assign you, limit you, threaten you, teach you, order you, steal from you.

Whatever that is, what ever you want to call that, a 'system', a 'Constitution', it can not and never will create freedom, nor any other such high-minded state of being bought on by a mere word, that you don't already intrinsically have, without any words at all.





Wed, 03/20/2013 - 01:13 | 3351139 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I'll be gnoshing on that smorgasbord of profundity you assembled tonight for quite a while.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 06:35 | 3351385 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

"All you can do is deny it authority to govern you, moderate you, pilot you, manage you, classify you, assign you, limit you, threaten you, teach you, order you, steal from you."  But you cannot do even that.  Government has always been with us, and shall always be with us.  It is the oldest human institution.  You cannot escape it.  You will always, ever, be limited by some government or other.  There is no true "freedom", as you understand it.  Even an absolute monarch is not totally "free", because he must, MUST act to preserve his monarchy.  Failure to do so, for an absolute monarch, usually means death.  So, absolute total freedom is an illusion, a utopian state that has never existed, and will never exist, for anybody.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 06:47 | 3351399 Darth Rayne
Darth Rayne's picture

Small Government is good. 2 - 3% Government tax and 7 - 8% local tax. Total to never exceed 10%

That should provide a firm base for a pleasant world for all. Including Muslims, blacks, gays and even Americans. :-)

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:55 | 3351682 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

It's not the size of the boat, it's the motion in the ocean... ;)

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 09:18 | 3351794 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

A dead (wo)man has no concerns about slavery.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 15:52 | 3353196 Element
Element's picture

@ yrbmegr

No, mostly you can do that, there are limits, of course, we have responsibilities to others and shared needs (not wants) with others. These are necessary, so there's nothing puritanical or unrealistic about that. There is no need nor onus to be permissive to a thuggish police-state or a corrupt government full of criminals and war mongers, just because they demand your allegiance. Or to aide and abet them in their crimes. Resistance is far from futile. It's why they effectively ban and criminalize strikes and public gatherings and free-association in meetings or demonstrations. To them you are a misbehaving drone that needs fixing, you are their property.

So stop being a drone, do not submit to be treated as property, withdraw your slave labor, or taxes, or both, do not accept their wishes and authority and their 'papers', and point-out openly that they are a broken non-entity, that you are intrinsically a whole true entity, and that you own them and that they must behave, or be defanged and ignored by mass non-compliance.

And if they attack you then they are just like any wolf or predatory animal, either evade or kill them, or both. Nothing wrong with that. But a war that destroys the whole community is not the way. It's just a minority of elites and their subordinates that needs to be dealt with directly. Intel can work both ways, identify who they are and locate them in your area. But attacking police or army or infrastructure is not the way. It just enables a greater tyranny to rise from the ashes.

If the army knows you aren't interested in attacking them or wrecking the place then they're a whole lot more inclined to support removing the elites and cronies and criminals-in-suits, or standing aside to allow the people to face them down. The elites create so many fighting units, and the divisions between fighting units, so that a unified military won't stand against them, all at once. Only sub elements of it can disobey orders in such a 'crisis'. So they are dividing the military and police as well, to control them with threats and coercion.

We can handle this a lot better than going to war with them because then the elites get to stay in power longer and have an excuse to call us "home-grown terrists", and to tell lies about the motivations to spin all action against them as an odious ideology, thus they can drop artillery on us, which is the sort of thing they clearly would be itching to do. The Army and police should understand that we aren't what the elite's, the govt agency reports, and the mass-propagandists of their pet-media claim merely free people to be.

The very fact that those in the upper levels of power respond in those ways is the clinching evidence that the little people are to be regarded as slaves and remote-controlled drones, not free people, and to shut up and go along with their crimes. "Subjects" and "citzens" are legal fiction, we are not that even if Consitutional paper says we are. We owe 'leaders' nothing.

Nothing wrong with saying too hell with that.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:39 | 3351614 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

All the while, could you name even one thing our .gov doesn't regulate in your life now except maybe breathing......  Oh wait!!!!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:51 | 3351658 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture


To this must be added a quiet war, begun in 2008 as a response to the financial crisis, and so low key that it doesn’t deserve capital letters – the war on savers.

Since when is the war on savers anything recent - inflation, anyone?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 11:05 | 3352208 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Negative real interest rates is the war on savers.  Inflation is built into the current system.  Now you must bet in the casino to get a real return, not playing the game isn't an option.  Gold and silver can (long term) help to preserve your wealth, but rarely do they act as wealth creation vehicles.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 12:42 | 3352628 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Negative real interest rates are nothing new, either - it has been going on probably as long as inflation itself, at times and places.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 23:55 | 3351048 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

CH-1 - how does bitcoin figure into all this?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 09:10 | 3351760 AE911Truth
AE911Truth's picture

It's more difficult for the government to steal, and it is easy to transport.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 11:11 | 3352227 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Bitcoin relies on a "system" to be up and running.  Will your neighbor with chickens trade you a dozen eggs for a "bitcoin"?  Or are you better off trading twenty rounds of 22 lr for the eggs?  Will the grid and internet be up and running in your worst case scenario? 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 02:07 | 3351185 samwell
samwell's picture

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:31 | 3351585 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Not the only ones: 30s Jews, nowadays Palestinians, yesterdays Cambodians, etc., etc., etc. - everyone which has something to lose thinks twice before risking their life, specially when caught by surprise and on their own, if nothing else, in hope for a less riskier opportunity or because losing freedom seems a good bargain vs. losing life.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 06:26 | 3351374 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Native Americans

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:33 | 3351588 Help Is Not Coming
Help Is Not Coming's picture

"Native Americans" means indigenous American Indians to me. Is it possible you mean "Naive Americans"? I could certainly agree with that statement.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:26 | 3350602 hampsterwheel
hampsterwheel's picture

seriously, where are these patriots thou does speak of? Perhaps they are busy strip being searching for the TSA or before any sporting event...I'm growing weary of of the Patriots call to arms --- better pipe that message into Walmart to make sure we get it ...

Name me one example - one - just one - of any patriot making a move to re-establish the republic which cost him his life? ...Buller...Buller... my friend we go the way of 1930 Germany a slow steady decent while we support our "legions" to conquest and hope for a superweapon invented by helicopter Ben... there will be no second revolution - there will be no  americans to be seen moving out while armed for freedom as we see in Syria - the reason for the 2nd amendment  no longer exists - for are no men any longer in this nation willing to die, cheer the troops is the call...and it has been so preverted that now we have to put a disclaimer in saying "Well I support out Legional conquests...and the Legions that do the conquestiong....but....." WTF  - the Western Man is like a man that re-draws the line in the sand every single time the other line is brushed aside - ... yet thousands of Arabs are out there dying for something bigger than HDTV - and here the Western man sits - sad - we used to have men that if their honor were defiled they'd die before live - now they find nothing worth dying over - hence here we are...


Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:32 | 3350664 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Name me one example - one - just one - of any patriot making a move to re-establish the republic which cost him his life? ...Buller...Buller... ......

"HIGHLAND PARK, Ill. -- Internet freedom activist Aaron Swartz was "killed by the government," his father told mourners Tuesday during his son's funeral in suburban Chicago.

Swartz, who help create Reddit and RSS, the technology behind blogs, podcasts and other web-based subscription services, was found dead Friday in his New York apartment. He was facing federal charges that alleged he illegally gained access to millions of articles from a Massachusetts Institute of Technology computer archive.

"He was killed by the government, and MIT betrayed all of its basic principles," he said.

Swartz, 26, was facing charges that carried a maximum penalty of decades in prison. His trial was scheduled to begin in April.


In March of 2003, Tillman told his buddy Spc. Russell Baer, “You know, this war is so fucking illegal.” He urged his platoon to vote against Bush in the 2004 election. He had gone from being a political asset to the Bush administration to their worst nightmare. Certainly, it would be in the best interest of the war machine to have Tillman eliminated.



Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:52 | 3350730 Northeaster
Northeaster's picture

"He was killed by the government, and MIT betrayed all of its basic principles," he said.

Nothing to see here except a dead kid.

Bankers/Politicians get to pillage the planet, nothing. A kid wants to download some IP (works that could be legally downloaded if paid for) and they throw the fucking book at him.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 23:15 | 3350944 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

WHAT? So this is an example of someone standing up to tyranny? Someone who committed suicide? This is an example for Americans? We are to stand for our freedoms by having mass suicides? TPTB must be trembling in their boots over this. We are well and truly fucked.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 23:16 | 3350954 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

His other choice was constant prosecution and possible life in prison. I'd rather focus on the things he tried to accomplish while he was alive. That was standing up to tyranny. Are you denying that?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 00:11 | 3351073 infinity8
infinity8's picture

Where was his father and other "supporters" when he was deciding to off himself under the weight?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 05:19 | 3351332 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

I agree with you that this was an obvious case of government persecution and selective prosecution. The Federal Justice Department has, I believe, a 98% conviction rate. It was a sad story on a personal level. Maybe the case of Julius Assange or Bradly Manning would be a better example.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:35 | 3355579 toxic8
toxic8's picture

There is a very, very good chance that Aaron Schwartz did not commit suicide and was in fact murdered by Spookey & Gang in his Brooklyn apartment.

You see, when you become a threat...

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 04:56 | 3351306 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

I don't remember Aaron packing heat nor nothing.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 06:59 | 3351415 Darth Rayne
Darth Rayne's picture

Hi Affen, I assume Aaron did what he believed in.

Why do you mention fire arms?

Why did USA allow Aaron to be persecuted?

320 million pussies?

I don't need a gun. Should someone seek to coerce me with a weapon, I shall at that moment take their weapon. If I die I die. I will not be coerced by a mindless drone with a weapon. Obviously, I am English and not American.


Wed, 03/20/2013 - 09:26 | 3351841 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

And here I was thinking you'd charm them.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 07:21 | 3351447 Clark Bent
Clark Bent's picture

Whatever really happened to Chris Kyle? Why was his death immediately deep-sixed as simply a PTSD ex-vet? Why no hand-wrining about how weapons are to blame even in the midst of the Sandy Hook gun grab? 

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:57 | 3350746 Stares straight...
Stares straight ahead's picture

You have excellent command of broken English, troll.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:57 | 3350749 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"seriously, where are these patriots thou does speak of? Perhaps they are busy strip being searching for the TSA or before any sporting event..."

Perhaps they're all around you.

Perhaps they have spent years trying to convince you of what you refuse to see. Perhaps they, unlike the SPLC, are willing to give you one last shot of what you could be. Yes, perhaps western men don't get too overly excited when a veil drops from a womans face and want to kill her, rape her or throw her in jail but...who or what is this an indictment of, really?

The author is correct.

Throughout the movement it has been attacked by the MSM & statists. Every innocents slaughter & massacre is immediately attributed to it...from Newtown...only to find out later it was a leftist or some other paranoid schizophrenic moonbat.

Lets check the record shall we? ;-)

Do you think the cop from LA (with a serious mental & racial issues) was part of what I stand for? Holmes in Denver? The pharma-kid from Newtown?

Case in point and on topic...Floyd Lee Corkins II. He got his "kill list" off of the Southern Poverty Law Centers own website. Admitted to it in court.

So the question now turns...who is promoting violence & hatred  here and why?

Us or them or you?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 02:36 | 3351193 Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

The record shows one Bradley Manning exposing vast diplomatic subterfuge, official and military corruption and war crimes of the legion at great personal cost.

Vilified as 'traitor', held in solitary confinement for nearly a year, excoriated in MSM by congressmen publicly encouraging his covert execution and our constitutional scholar POTUS condeming him as guilty prior to even the formality of indictment. Where's 'Liberty' movement support for him?

The elite run scared squirming shitless when little people shine a light on their fucking grotesquerie of secrets, lies and crimes. 


Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:00 | 3350762 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Unfortunately many Western men have been slowly beat down thru time by the modern progressive movement, ie. the cultural damage of political correctness and radical feminism.  Fuck em, they will all go down hard for opposing natures law and the truth.  Don't be surprised as a man if you're asked, "Who are you bitch!" You WILL be asked that question, trust me, future circumstances will test our limits and we will have to prove ourselves again.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 07:21 | 3351442 Darth Rayne
Darth Rayne's picture

My answer to the question "Who are you bitch!" is 'fuck off'.

That would complete the verbal portion of my response. Additional enquiries will be met by violence and lots of it.

Unless I am in an unpleasant mood, then I wouldn't trouble myself with speaking.


Let's calm down, prepare mentally and physically for whatever the future brings. That is what a man would do. None of this  "Who are you bitch!" nonsense. I don't recall John Wayne running about inquiring about bitches.

Aggression without cause is a sign of weakness. The truly strong, mentally and physically, know who they are and don't need to know who you are or what your job title is. 

For example, what is your response to 'I am the President of The United States and I am having a shit on your lawn.'?

Does it matter who he is? Does it matter if he is a she? Does it matter if they are black, white, green, orange, purple or blue? No, it does not. Wait until they crouch down and kick them in the head. Put them in the recovery position. No need for aggression or argument. There are laws. There are rules. There are boundaries.

Don't accept the unacceptable.

Behave responsibly and don't threaten people. (Warnings are fine.)

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 09:13 | 3351773 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Patriachy is not natures law, matriarchy is.

Read some books, not the fan fiction of glenn beck.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 12:02 | 3352424 The Unabonger
The Unabonger's picture

Name one matriarchy (outside the West from around 1970) that amounted to more than a bunch of tribals dancing around the fire in skins. Ther higher primates are patriachies accross the board. If you want to live in a sucsessful matriachy go live with your friends the insects.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 12:06 | 3352442 The Unabonger
The Unabonger's picture

I don't know why Harbanger is getting voted down here. He's right. 

Feminism and the feminised culture it promotes is intrinsicaly authoritarian. No feminist woman or man under feminist influence will take up arms against anything. 

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:13 | 3350793 runningman18
runningman18's picture

What about the 350 Sheriffs across the country who are refusing to enforce anti-gun laws?  In New York and Colorado these guys are putting their lives on the line.

I love all these naysayers who claim that just because we haven't started shooting yet, we never will.  The Founding Fathers went through numerous trials for years before the fighting started, and the same kinds of idiots were making the same exact claims.

"Yeah, right, they'll never fight...."

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:18 | 3350808 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

somehow it reminds me of this.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 00:01 | 3351058 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

LE is not your friend-a cop mentality does not fit in w/ a liberty mentality. there is a reason they get into LE and that is the love of telling someone else what to do and how fast to do it. do not be fooled by their posturing-it has more to do w/ some cracker inbred Mormom Utah sheriffs not wanting to do what O and the dems tell them. If W told them to do something they would ask "how high".

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 00:56 | 3351119 mkkby
mkkby's picture

This is what will save the constitution from banksters and their various paid off politicians.  Out there somewhere are generals and lower military officers with the same values as these courageous sheriffs.  They see what we see and know it is wrong.  But things aren't bad enough to act.

They won't oppose the government over rioting inner city criminals.  They will restore order, as they should.  They will oppose the government when it obviously no longer has the consent of the people.  That is a long way off.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 12:20 | 3352493 Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

I wish I could see the situation as you do. Unfortunately, it seems more plausible to me that although there are quite possibly some sheriffs, some flag-level and mid-tier officers out there who feel as we do, they rank in the very distinct minority. Additionally, they understandably are reluctant to make waves or rock the proverbial boat, as they also understand the risks of doing so.....much like most of us do. Thus, in that regard it is ALREADY bad enough to act. There was a saying making the rounds on the interwebnets not long ago, something along the lines of: "If the time has come to discuss burying your firearms, the reality is its time to dig them up."

As for opposing the government when it obviously no longer has consent of the people.....well, we crossed that bridge quite some time ago. Just a couple of quick examples:

a. The cirminal TARP theft....easily 85-90% of the country was strongly against that, yet the representatives of the people enabled it anyway.

b. That same body of representatives routinely sustains an approval rating between 10-15%.

Just these two examples seem like strong indicators to me that we are NOT consenting to the current actions our government engages in. Obviously, we see plenty more examples every day. If opposition from LE and the military was a realistic expectation, it should have happened by now if it was going to prevent massive civilian casualties. By the time significant numbers of these organizations choose the side of the people, we will have already seen much blood in the streets. I would not be surprised if many choose to 'switch sides' once they sense that their mealticket stampers are going to lose....long after the fighting has been in progress.

Like I said, it sucks to have that view of things, but for now that's whay my gut and eyes are telling me.


Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:57 | 3350907 Bitchin Bear
Bitchin Bear's picture

Well it doesn't take a genius to see that you are a product of public education.  Even Ferris Bueller knows how to spell "dost" and I'll bet you aren't nearly as funny.  I leave you with my slow steady "descent" to the bottom of my wine bottle, 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 11:57 | 3352408 The Unabonger
The Unabonger's picture

How about Timothy James "TimMcVeigh (April 23, 1968 – June 11, 2001) ?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:31 | 3354668 citizen2084
citizen2084's picture

You are the problem hampsterwheel or should I say Mr Western man - why do you need to see someone else do something? It will always be up to you.  


To answer your question: Ruby Ridge was a man refusing to be a snitch- and then he was set up but stood his ground...

WACO was a group fighting in response to being attacked...a group who did nothing wrong...

People are learning the courts offer no justice IE the browns, Peel-Jackson, ole Irwin shciff to name a few...

The quiet war on small farmers, not economic war, but now a hot war of gun drawn SWAT raids...

The fire arms will be it - it was the line in the sand in 1775, and it will be in 2013 - I don't think people are buying missions of guns just to give em back.  I don't own a gun but thinking about it. 

You sir and your judgement on others inaction as you do.. not  




Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:16 | 3350606 ACP
ACP's picture

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Mahatma Ganghi
Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:26 | 3350620 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture


Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:38 | 3350857 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

India "won" independence from the brits, but without a structure that limits your Govts power, what do you really have?  Humanity has been enslaved for so long by tyrants that liberty feels unnatural.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:19 | 3350624 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

First they attack you, then you shoot them in the face with a shotgun.

- Joe blow

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 02:50 | 3351216 Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

First they blow both you and your shotgun away with a Hellfire drone-shot.


Here lies the fragmented remains of Joe Blow.

Not the brightest bulb, but he sure loved his gun.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 06:45 | 3351397 A82EBA
A82EBA's picture

which would be the drone shot heard round the world..from which point we move from defense to offense. It would take a shock like that to start the wagons circling.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 12:31 | 3352556 Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

Why would they schedule a UCAV mission to take out Joe Blow and his boomstick? If it's because he has a boomstick they could certainly do that. One UCAV mission and $250,000 Hellfire down....100 million (give or take a few million) more to go.

Surely all the remaining 99,999,999 Joe Blows would just sort of chillax and patiently wait their turn to get vaporized, right? 

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:43 | 3350703 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

'Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence'  -Mahatma Gandhi-

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:16 | 3350608 SandiaMan
SandiaMan's picture

Bring it!

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:17 | 3350615 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"Some principles, like the liberties embodied in natural law and outlined in the U.S. Constitution, NEVER become outdated.  They exist in the heart of mankind, and will remain as long as humanity remains.  They cannot be erased, and they cannot be undone.  They are inherent and eternal. "

I'm not done laughing at the sheer ignorance and myopia of this statement, but I'll just say ... yeah, good luck with that, the rest of the plebs, and their masters, have very, very different plans.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:39 | 3350690 akak
akak's picture

Given that you are an unabashed neo-Nazi, nobody here really expected you to agree with any of the above anyway.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:49 | 3350721 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

There's a kill drone over this guy's head even as I type this.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:50 | 3350723 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Let me be the first tonight to say fuck you.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:56 | 3350742 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Mark Potok -- is that you?

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:59 | 3350758 20834A
20834A's picture

The American colonists numbered about 2 million free colonists. It is estimated that around 200,000 fought the British; untrained, no professional leadership against the world's best army at the time. The rest of the sheep sat out on the sidelines.The British dismissed them as cowards who would be cowed by strong measures (even called them sheep vs. 'lyons').


We don't need a majority to fight. Just the one's with the fire of Liberty and Freedom burning, burning in their hearts.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:35 | 3350849 BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

Agree in theory. However in practice there is one very substantive difference between the revolution and today. Back then, the militia and their enemies were pretty evenly matched in their access to hardware... A musket is a musket is a musket.

The absolute chasm between the 'assault weapons' available to the public and the weaponry available to anyone supplied by the MIC is astronomical. To say the Patriot Movement is outgunned is the understatement of the century.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good David v. Goliath story but let's be honest, the revutionary army would have been decimated and we would all be singing 'God Save the Queen' before Cubs games if all they had were pea shooters to fight with. And that's pretty much the disadvantage we face today.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:41 | 3350863 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I can't link it but everyone should read the dying letter from Iraq war vet Tomas Young. I think it was posted in entirety on truthdig if someone can link it.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 23:11 | 3350940 BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

Excellent piece. Thanks gents.

My only gripe is that he let them off too easy. There isn't enough hell for those two ass clowns. Bush profited from the oil in Iraq, his dad's black ops CIA goons reopened the poppy fields in Afghanistan, and fuckshite Cheney got his through Halliburton contracts. Call these fuckers what they are.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 05:45 | 3351345 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

"I joined the Army two days after the 9/11 attacks. I joined the Army because our country had been attacked. I wanted to strike back at those who had killed some 3,000 of my fellow citizens."

Believing a lie can be very costly.  In fact it can cost you your life.  This young man found out the hard way.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:09 | 3351533 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

Gordon Duff = tool for the machine

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:27 | 3351577 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

You are precisely correct, mon liege....kudos y saludos....

may I offer you an Hoyo de Monterrey Double Corona*from my humidor? I am almost certain it will not explode...but how deep down the rabbit hole can any of us dig>?!?!


*pre 96, mais qui!

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 23:25 | 3350978 Professorlocknload
Professorlocknload's picture

And the USSR had weapons and air superiority in Afghanistan, The USA had weapons and air superiority in Vietnam. Korea?

The US has weapons and air superiority in Afghanistan. Who won or is winning in those places? The latter conflict is 10 years running just to stay even.The worlds largest superpower pitted against a bunch of Rag Tag Yak herders.........whose hearts are in it!

Care to gimee a betting line on the final outcome of that one?

OK as a kicker, 56 killed in Iraq the other day in terrorist bombings. 10 years after our invasion. It that what makes the USA a winner? Weapons superiority is trumped by spirit.


Wed, 03/20/2013 - 06:19 | 3351357 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Trumped by tactics which neutralize weapon superiority; our nation's infrastructure will be the battleground. Transportation, information, communication. These are key. Command and control. Deny it to the adversary, and shun it for the weaknesses it burdens you with. It will be centralized control against decentralized, local action.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:06 | 3351525 BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

Hope springs eternal and I hope you are right.

However, the Vietnam and Afghan 'wars' are/were smoke screens for alternative agendas... neither was a true war of conquest.  Vietnam was never even declared a war and the Rockefeller brothers were propping up Russia with massive invenstment while the Ruskies provided AKs to the Vietcong.  Only the fact that war was not officially declared did they not hang for treason.

The Afghan conflict is about re-opening the Poppy fields which were virtually closed by the Taliban.  Nothing else.  The elitist string pullers care not for the democracy of the third world... it's all about resource control.

The poppy fields are back in full production bro'... that war has been won.  The rest is smoke and mirrors.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 12:44 | 3352639 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Job security.  How can the U. S. continue its lucrative "war on drugs" without a steady supply of drugs?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:18 | 3351552 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

I can't speak for the Soviets but I suspect that the following is true for them as well.  The MIC was not/is not interested in winning any of the wars you listed.  Perpetual war and war profit was/is the goal.  They fund, train and arm both sides.  The bankers and weapon makers have no sense of national loyalty.  They are loyal only to their profits.

Until their profits, and personal security is threatened, they are getting what they want.  A revolutionary war in America would be "good for business".

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 23:43 | 3351007 xtop23
xtop23's picture

Edit: poster above beat me to it. Afghanistan is the obvious answer and a large part of why disarming the public is a major concern for TPTB.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 02:00 | 3351183 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Bonesxxx you are so high.

Today there are about 380 million people in the US with about 500K to 1M that would support the regime.  I don't care how many fucking bullets they have or the type of guns, no way are they going kill American citizens in a massive way.

Are they going to use Nuclear weapons or artillery - hell no.  This isn't Korea in 1950-52 with waves of Chinese attacking - these are American people and the LE are American people too, with families and children - they won't fire on civilans over stupid money. 

I'll go farther - I suggest that no Marine commander will fire on American people - it is just silly to think so.

P.S.  I am going to steal that Armored vehicle as soon as SHTF.  Those DHS guys got to sleep sometimes (and they are not military)...

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 04:02 | 3351258 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

As you write, the U.S. Military is cashiering those who will not fire on Americans and promoting those who will.

Interesting that a major theme of the Nazi thing was homosexuality.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 12:04 | 3351765 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

It's almost too much to contemplate... a situation where Americans rise against the govt. BUT, if we're going to go there just for the sake of thinking about, what if.....  You must think of a situation where many... no not many, a whole lot of the military and those in it believe in liberty and our founding principals.  You have to ask yourself if they would be willing to turn their weapons on their own population... in mass.   You'd have chaos in government.   Who could lead an army against it's own people?

In the past, it's been done, no doubt but, here is different because during our own civil war, the war was defined by the rebels against those that wanted to preserve the union.... the lines were clear of who was the good guy and who was the bad one. 

This would be different.  Those that want to get rid of the oppressive .gov who could be anywhere, everywhere.

Just imagine the chaos if you put up blockades, cut railroad and powergrid into NYC...... ( this is ALL congecture, of course ), what would all those freedom loving folks do???  That's just one example of how a relatively small group of folks could cause chaos on a scale that is off the chart.  And, by the time anyone would do that, the country would already be seething with anger and hatred of our .govt and those that support it's policies.

I'm not saying any of it is a good idea and, I hope I never live to see a day when standing up to fight a government is better than living in peace..... much of this is mental masturbation to say the least.

In my own mind, I don't see any of this happening.  What I'd be more inclined to think would happen is a situation where when it all comes apart, we'd follow the soviet model.  It's more than likely our .govt will implode on itself.... the country could not be governed and those in power know that they're no longer safe from the public that they're supposed to be serving.  In that situation, all is possible.... even the balkanization of the states as in the USSR.

After all, our politicians are motivated by power, money and reelection and depend on the consent of the governed.... in that situation, they'd have none of those things to motivate them.... it would simply have to change.  A country can not be governed by an unwilling armed population.  The daily cost would be too high for the government.  They may have superior firepower and be able to win every engagement but, over time, the cost would be so high, they'd still lose.


Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:13 | 3355527 20834A
20834A's picture

How many police and military will go awol to protect their families? And take as many weapons as possible with them?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 14:51 | 3353361 20834A
20834A's picture

Well, the Brits also had cannons. Not too many of those on our side. IIRC, Nathan Hale and the Green Mountain boys captured the first cannons at Ft. Ticonderoga (though they didn't keep them?) There are hundreds of thousand trained aircraft pilots, engineers, welders, computer nerds, communications folk, and military with tactics/strategy expertice, etc. IF these people band together into a committed force, even the gov't with all their fancy toys would be very hard pressed to suppress them-- as long as their was a LEADER to coordinate, inspire and direct them.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:57 | 3354933 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

And in South Carolina the war was guerrilla in nature - look up Francis Marion - we learned this lesson well in Vietnam - you cannot control a populace through the air (drones be dammed) - you have to have troops on the ground.  I will be heading to the Great Smokey Mountains as soon as SHTF (from California).  Let them try to find me there with my Scot-Irish brothers and cousins (aka hillbillies). 

I have been waiting for this fight my entire life. 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 00:02 | 3351060 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Please see Rothbard's history Conceived in Liberty for a good description of how support was divided in the Revolution. While your 200K number may be right for those that actually fought, there was widespread support for the Revolution throughout the colonies. Exceptions being Georgia which had a high percentage of Tory government functionaries, New York where conservative (Tory) oligarchs dominated and there were local areas of Tory support everywhere, even in Massachusets. 

There is not the same level of support this time. Right off the bat, 47 million would rather keep getting food stamps.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 15:02 | 3353433 20834A
20834A's picture

Actually, there was rather little support at the beginning; many loyalists and many who just didn't want trouble/thought it was unwinnable (and heck, most of the colonists didn't even hear about Lexington, etc., until months later). The support grew along with the flame of anger against British treatment (they acted like ALL colonists were suspect, and that they could do or take anything they needed- sound familiar?).

Over the years of conflict, support grew more widespread. Though it's only anecdotal in nature, my family has passed on oral history from that time (living in Kentucky, Tennessee, and North Carolina) that tells of family members, one after another, joining the fight. There was no 'starting flag', and everyone jumped in.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 05:10 | 3351321 MajorWoody
MajorWoody's picture

Don't forget who helped us win, FRANCE, without them we'd be nuthin.

Ayn Rand wasn't there at all



Wed, 03/20/2013 - 08:25 | 3351568 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Exactly, most Americans like to think they single handedly defeated the "greatest" army in the world at that time.  They did not.  The revolutionary war cost France 2 billion livre and bankrupted them, leading to their own revolution. 

To be fair though, I am sure the bankers will be happy to "lend" money to the new revolutionaries so they can buy weapons and pay for troops.  It is hard to see but the government is not the enemy, they are a front company for the enemy.  The real enemy is nebulous and will often appear as a friend and "supporter".

Remeber, they care not who "governs" an area or people.  They just want to control the money supply.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 01:09 | 3351133 samwell
samwell's picture

you have probably been indoctrinated to believe in cultural relativism/moral relavistism also?  you're ignorance sir is stupefying to say the least.  you act like the founding fathers were a bunch illegal aliens who just fell off the turnip truck!!!  the were and are part of a great line of philosopher statemen who felt human rights were inalieable from the individual and not subject to the whims of the state or the crown.


“In the beginning the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. AS his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.”  --Mark Twain


The timid like you will one day join, but by then it will be too late.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:18 | 3350617 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

SPLC and the ADL work for the government. They are propaganda arms. Fuck em, they are a bunch of traitors.

In other Cyprus news...

Russian officials also moved to avert concerns that its own banks could face difficulty if the taps remained turned off in Cyprus. The ratings agency Moody's estimated that Russian banks had extended up to $40bn in loans to companies in Cyprus.


Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:36 | 3350674 samwell
samwell's picture

they are a bunch of traitors, but it should be specified that they are propaganda/psyop control arms of zionist jews in Israel and the United states.  This is the true identity of the scumbags running these agencies.  Think its a coincidence that a zionist talmudic jew ran DHS for 8 yrs.  DHS and TSA specifically are straight outta Israhell and their racist, genocidal campaigns against the Palastinian people.  We are all Palestinians now.  

In amerisrael today, if you dare notice that a bunch of traitorous ,scumbag, control-freak,money-junkie, psychopaths are running our country into the ditch intentionally, and that they happen to be racist, talmudic, zionist jews, then you are immediately demonized as a terrorist.  This is the problem with having centralized power.  You end up with a bunch of verminous pychopaths getting into positions of power and abusing the majority.  This is the definition of an apartheid government.  to talmudic, zionist jews we are merely cattle(goy) who are only there for god's chosen to abuse,rip-off, murder, and consume.  This is what they are tought in the "holy" book, the talmud.  In the Talmud, it is not a crime to kill a goy, sleep with their wife, steal their money.  it is only a crime if you do that to another jew.  

recently it has been scientifically proven that 90% of most modern jews are not even biblical jews, but instead blond haired, blue-eyed decendants of Khazars, or Ashkanazi.  so explain to me how these jews have a right of return to palestine.  that would be like giving people who joined the native american church the state of california?  

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:44 | 3350706 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture


Tue, 03/19/2013 - 23:23 | 3350971 exgop
exgop's picture

Damn right Samwell

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 23:40 | 3351001 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

It should be noted that some of the Zionists are fundamentalist Christians. Many of them are more Zionist than the Jewish Zionists. Of course they believe that the state of Israel will bring forth the "end times", Armageddon, what ever. Christ will return and all the Jews will be sent to hell. Kind of ironic. They're not satisfied to wait for the "end times", they want to give God a nudge right now. This is the kind of nonsense that the world is ruled by.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 23:46 | 3351021 samwell
samwell's picture

yes, good point. these so called Christian Zionists are traitors to free humanity as well.  they are about to be led down the chute by their "judas goat" masters to get slaughtered like so many innocents on that fateful day of 9-11. Its no accident that all major "jewish" holidays celebrate the slaughter of goy!  one day sept 11th will be a national holiday in israhell!!  The next slaughter these psychopathic enemies of humanity pull is going to be a doozy.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 05:51 | 3351347 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Our new black pope congratulates you for taking the bait.  Hate on.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 10:03 | 3351975 Its the Vatican...
Its the Vatican Stupid's picture


Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:18 | 3350622 Northeaster
Northeaster's picture

Low tech wins.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:25 | 3350641 HD
HD's picture

I am responding to your post via carrier pigeon.  Please feed him when he gets there...

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:32 | 3350663 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

These countermeasures are Highly Effective and Undefeatable by most current Domestic Drone Technology.


Tech vs. tech...

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:42 | 3350700 Northeaster
Northeaster's picture

I gave you green because you made me laugh.

In any event, two things have to happen for any "change": 1) The People have nothing left to lose, 2) Fear of jail and/or death is no longer a deterrent. Without those two, status quo remains. No one gives a fuck if yahoo's confine themselves in their bunker, turned keyboard commando, the government is happy you stay there. They will care if someone(s) does something actionable.

Low tech because everything being used is high tech, and ALL combat military/veterans understand the three "C's" (even us older ones):




Still "LoL" at pigeons, have a nice evening.


Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:56 | 3350743 CH1
CH1's picture

Not quite low-tech, but mesh networks are cheap, easy and VERY important.

PDF instructions HERE.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:35 | 3350789 HD
HD's picture

"In any event, two things have to happen for any "change": 1) The People have nothing left to lose, 2) Fear of jail and/or death is no longer a deterrent."

Preaching to the choir mate.  Agreed 100%.  I've said almost the exact thing here on ZH more than a few times - I watch as they expand the police state everyday and people respond as if it's just a normal thing to have happen.


Tue, 03/19/2013 - 23:13 | 3350945 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

"They know a fight is coming, and we know a fight is coming. "


Bring it bitches, we outnumber them. I already know how this ends... I will let you all in on a little secret, WE FUCKING WIN.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:20 | 3350630 Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

Practice aiming for the face, shoulders, thighs and/or calves to avoid hitting body armor, and remember Rule #1: Cardio.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:01 | 3350765 Northeaster
Northeaster's picture

"Practice aiming for the face, shoulders, thighs and/or calves to avoid hitting body armor, and remember Rule #1: Cardio."

How the fuck could you have green on this post? Any civillian law enforcement or military trained person know "vitals" are the key. That is, just above the collar of the vest, where any shot has the highest percentange of a heart or lung shot. Head shot? Good luck on that, hope you're static, a marksman on a moving target, and have the most ideal shooting conditions available.

Fucking tinfoilers out in mass tonight. Tell us about the time you had a dime spread at 1000 yards under hostile fire.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:10 | 3350782 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Place downvotes for ^^ here.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 01:15 | 3351136 Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

...or maybe you could tell us about the time you had a fucking clue. Most of us aren't stupid enough to stick around for the return volley, regardless of our own accuracy (see 'cardio').

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 04:33 | 3351283 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Rule #2: Double tap this useless , humourless, 'know-all'.... CUNT.


Wed, 03/20/2013 - 01:00 | 3351109 DarthVaderMentor
DarthVaderMentor's picture

If you fighting legal traditional military warfare, then shooting for the "vitals" is what you train for.

However, if you are fighting as an insurgent or urban guerilla, terror and pain are just as effective as eliminating the opposing force so "below the belt or vest" should be the target area of choice. That's how you bring down counter-insurgent troops that are wearing bulletproof vests and head protective gear. That's how they finally brought down, for example, the heavily armored bank robbers in LA. Once they are partially or completely immobilized and are most likely writhing on the ground, then you can deal with them at your leisure and every bullet will hit since they can't move easily, provided they don't bleed to death first from a hit to the femoral artery.

If you think war is hell, counterinsurgency and rebellion is even worse. We haven't seen this type of warfare in this country since Sherman's march to the sea, but we may see it again.

Of course, the winning strategy for insurgents is to shoot or throw them a Molotov Cocktail from behind, of course. We seem to have forgotten that lesson from Vietnam and have gotten somewhat civilized, but that'll change quickly.

Source: "El Libro de Tacticas para la estrategia de Foco" - Ernesto "Che" Guevara, Publicaciones Revolucionarias, La Habana, Cuba, 1964


Wed, 03/20/2013 - 04:44 | 3351294 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Don't waste you time Darth ... 

Sensible stuff... not getting at you Brother. I think a disabling shot is useful against a unit convinced of it's own invincibility. It's a way to distract, cause indicision, second thoughts, panic and hopefully mistakes.  The screaming of the wounded can play on a bunch of kids nerves.  Have you seen these guys in operations?  Saving their OWN arses is a big focus. It's not like Stalingrad when if you did not fucking charge zee German fortitications and tried to retreat the NKVD machine guns behind you mowed your down.

All the same fucking ugly and those that get through the first encounter will have pissed their pants, pucked their guts out and probably hedged their bets and found some 'God'.


Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:21 | 3350632 Atlas Crapped
Atlas Crapped's picture

Plus 1

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:27 | 3350648 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

CHARGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (hey where did everyone go ???)

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:06 | 3350772 brettd
brettd's picture

Wait!  Who are we "charging"?

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 23:27 | 3350982 hidingfromhelis
hidingfromhelis's picture

So far, only Visa, MasterCard, and American Express.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 00:04 | 3351064 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

The only thing in the way is a conversation.  The politcally correct environment, which is determined by the media with their obvious determination of what is acceptable and what is not, has made a conversation regarding the greatest heist in the history of mankind that of material used by people who are paranoid, conspiracy theorists, they laugh and roll their eyes at the mention of THE NEW WORLD ORDER.  Hahahahaha.  they say,  what a joke they say.

But it's unfolding and we all know it. 

Who are the enemies of the state?  The politicians who are not brave enough to stand up to the banks, and die for freedom, they way they insist our children die for freedom and democracy 1000s of miles from their home.

Go after the politicians and you will get the bankers. 

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 00:01 | 3355669 toxic8
toxic8's picture


Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:27 | 3350649 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

god bless you are absolutely correct.....the rockefeller nazis brought us ww2 and adolph hitler, they triumphed in ww2, and have completed their takeover of amerika....there is no turning back the clock....we face only civil war....david himself admitted in his biography that he is committed to destroying the constitution so that america can be subjugated as an occupied state of the new world order.

obama is a lying sack of shit who has indonesian citizenship and is a usurper to the throne appointed by herr rockefeller himself i suspect...

"...if the Republican party ever wants to win again, they had better run honest Constitutionalists..."

fuck the republicans - they (and democrats) are fully controlled lock stock and barrel by the nazis....align yourself with the Constitution Party

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:29 | 3350653 MajorWoody
MajorWoody's picture

The Libertarian wet dream is not coming.  Financial collapse, yes.

Fighting your neighbors, as much as  some wankers want to, sorry guys, not gonna happen.

Maybe you can take up baking instead?

I love how the hard core preppers have come around to the fact that "it takes a village" to survive a crash.  Now that must be painful to swallow for all the Ayn Randyans.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:34 | 3350672 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Be in the world but not of the world, bitchez.........

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:36 | 3350678 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

No shit,  libertariatards are about the dumbest sons of bitches I've seen in a while. I swear most of the libertarian preppers I've talked to are on gookoo welfare, full disability and the like.  Are they retarded?

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:30 | 3350838 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Nope - just trying to bring the system down faster but sucking down some of that government cash.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 21:52 | 3350720 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I'm no prepper, but from what I understand of them, preppers don't just prep for themselves.  They prep, to a certain extent, for the whole neighborhood.  They know not everyone is going to be as prepared as they are.  They know they'll be needed by the community, even if that community looks at them a little curiously right now.  They work with people they trust.  And that's not something they just "came around to."

Or so I'm told.  What the hell do I know?

If one moved in next door to me, I don't think I'd complain as long as he didn't do live-fire exercises after 11:00.  I need my beauty sleep.

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 22:19 | 3350810 runningman18
runningman18's picture

Woody, you sound like a slave. 

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