Cyprus ATMs Low On Cash, Credit Card Payments Refused; Medvedev Compares Europe To USSR

Tyler Durden's picture

So far the market has been largely oblivious of the shattered trust and changed dynamic in European banking dynamics for one simple reason: Cyprus banks have been closed, and likely will be closed indefinitely, preventing the mass media from broadcasting what happens when an entire population, and foreign depositors, decide to clear out the holdings of their bank accounts, either physically or electronically, and the public anger the will result when they find that courtesy of fractional reserve banking, only a tiny amount of said deposits is actually present.

In the meantime, retail depositors have had their withdrawals limited through a form of capital controls, allowing them to pull only as much as the daily limit is on given ATMs. So far the banks have had enough cash to keep ATMs stocked up to the daily required minimum, but that may soon be ending. BBC's Mark Lowen, in Nicosia, reports that "Cyprus' banks are still giving out cash through machines - although with limits, and some are running low." Ironically, as physical cash becomes ever scarcer, merchants are now clamping down on electronic payments unsure if they will ever be able to convert electronic euros into actual ones: "Some businesses are now refusing credit card payments, our correspondent reports."

Logically, this progression of limited transactions will accelerate exponentially until by some miracle, either normalcy returns and faith in the local banking system is restored, or every form of commerce, trade and exchange grinds to a halt, leading to a localized, at first, manifestation of the "just-in-time" supply-chain cross contagion that was explained in painful detail in "Trade-Off: a study in global systemic collapse."

Since we don't believe in miracles, our money is increasingly on the latter. This sentiment is further reinforced by former Russian president, current Prime Minister, and Putin mouthpiece, Dmitry Medvedev, who said that what Europe has done is nothing shy of what the USSR used to do in its attempt to destroy faith in private property, and thus, capitalism.

From the FT and Reuters:

Mr Medvedev said the EU and Cyprus had acted “like an elephant in a China shop”.


“All possible mistakes that could be made have been made by them,” he added.


"We are living in the 21st century, under market economic conditions. Everybody has been insisting that ownership rights should be respected.”


Mr Medvedev also criticised the decision to freeze the Cypriot banking system, and not just withdrawals from troubled banks, warning that if this continued for any length of time it could “result in losses . . . even bury the whole banking sector of Cyprus. It will cease to exist,” he said.



The proposed bank levy, rejected by the Cypriot parliament on Tuesday, had a "clearly confiscatory, expropriating character," RIA quoted him as saying - remarks that echo earlier criticism by Russian President Vladimir Putin.


It was, Medvedev said, "absolutely unprecedented". 


"I can only compare it some of the decisions taken ... by Soviet authorities, who did not give a thought to the savings of the population."


Alas, it is not just in Cyprus that the current failing status quo has become the USSR incarnate: one can see it in the central planning of the stock market, in the general approach toward the wealthy, in the absurd penetration of cronyism and the terminal corruption of the system.

And while we commiserate with the simple people of Cyprus (and soon everywhere else), who have for no fault of their own become the first pawns to be sacrificed in the systemic endspiel, we are grateful to Europe for proving us, once again, correct.

Because our only purpose with this media experiment has been to warn our readers that concentrating unlimited decision-making power in the hands of a very few conflicted individuals, without checks and without balances, always, always, ends in absolute disaster, bloodshed, and ultimately war.

Sadly, at this point there is nothing that can change the final outcome of what is an ongoing systemic failure. One can, at most, prepare as much as possible and hope for the best.

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TeMpTeK's picture

The running of the Banks.... much better than the Bulls/....

Croesus's picture

The time for willful disobedience has come:

1) Get your money outside of the system, and away from the predations of evil people.

2) Do for yourselves and others like you.

3) Support ANY and EVERY cause against this system of feudal control.

4) Let the chips fall where they may.

Anyone who can look me in the eye, and tell me that 7,000,000,000 people can be defeated by perhaps 20, lying.


uranian's picture

Agreed. To the point that within the last week I've stopped paying tax. Now that the government has become an obviously criminal enterprise, fuck paying them tax. Not an easy life decision to make, but it really has reached this stage now, for me.

Irelevant's picture

Not paying taxes is kinnda stupid, as you are placing a large sign on you. Best to sell all taxable goods and hold gold, easy to carry, hard to tax.

Anyway, mark my words, these banks in Cyprus WILL NEVER REOPEN!

The deposits that are not guaranteed will not see a dime over 100.000 euros.

uranian's picture

I am surprised at the up arrows. Stupid; I'm holding money in gold and bitcoin, I have access to anonymous Visa cards (for the little amount I will need each month in fiat). I can remain beneath the banking radar, and indeed I do plan to sell "my assets" (sorry, I rent, so these consist of a sofa and a nice fish tank, heh, this kind of level), and I plan to go abroad for a while, and start trying to convince some other lunatics like me to get working on a Gesselian alternative community currency, while growing shedloads of lovely organic food via aquaponics. And possibly getting involved in unschooling, too.


Just for clarity's sake; I plan on fighting no power, unless it starts a fight with me first. I just plan on not consenting to giving these fucks money any more.

Kaiser Sousa's picture

man dont trip of those who use "the man" is gonna get you if you dont comply argument to discourage from full blown resistance in any and all forms to the rule of the bankers...

keep n mind that americans have been conditioned to go off to foreign lands and fight wars of agreession in order to steal the resources of other peoples yet are to afraid to fight their own corrupt banker controlled government desptie the fact their getting fucked on a daily fucking basis by these sociopaths........

let the fucking sheeple stay afraid...just get the fuck outta they way for all Freemen....


Irelevant's picture

I was in disagreement with the taxes part. The rest I fully agree with. You don`t want to be a enemy of the state in this climate, remember, the masses have not fucking clue what is going on. And, if the state says so, YOU ARE THE ENEMY. What the mouthpieces of big brother say is truth to this crowd. Everybody is on food stamps and sucking on that SS tit. There, here, everywhere in the western world.

uranian's picture

I hear ya, irrelevant. I disagree a bit about the masses, I think events are gradually slapping them awake, I plan on going to the south of Europe, where 65% youth unemployment is probably encouraging people to look for alternatives, but I'm equally aware that many are still hypnotised by their TVs.

Cathartes Aura's picture

upvote for the unschooling mention - good to see others looking into this most important step in extricating minds from auto-support of a system that has exploited everyone from birth.

and raising kids in a dual-language way of thinking/being, which Europe is, sounds healthy to me as well - I'd recommend Portugal, even though they've been put through the wringer since I last was there. . . beautiful, good climate, fresh foods, friendly folks.

do it, don't look back.

Rogue Trooper's picture

You got my up-vote brother...

Also some of these psychotic cunts will be burnt at the stake... not all will get out on the exit chopper to some 'secure location' when SHTF. Even these 0.001% will forever need to watch their backs, never travel without security and have to look twice at the new security that was just hired.  The cost of securing themselves, their families the hangers on and the security appratus will be immense.

Also there are those rather unforgiving, creative, some-what pissed off Russian ex-KGB types to think about....

"Now Boris, they call you the fucking Blade, do they NOT!

I want you to fucking find all the cunts who gave the order or facilitated, even if they made the fucking coffee, to wipe out my fucking account in Cyprus! If you get the money back then that can be a bonus for you.  But you better understand, I expect you to fuck them ALL up, their families and every fucker who they have ever fucking MET.... I want to see the fucking footage of this as proof!

Vy ponimayete!!!!!!!!!!"


thisandthat's picture

Bring me the head of Alfredo Garcia - erm... Olli Rehn.

Antifaschistische's picture

This is where we still have a marginal opportunity for influence.   Tell your friends, and tell your friends to tell their friends to tell their friends to never, ever, ever convict anyone in a US Court for any tax issue...period.   But don't give any indication that you'll not convict at jury selection time.

This is the slavery we truly fight....and TPTB would like for us to think that slavery has something to do with skin color.   It's an awesome diversion, while every American voluntarily moves like sheep to the slaughter.

gwar5's picture

Via con Dios, Uranian.


The massive Ponzi has no choice but to collapse upon itself. Never know which snowflake will cause the avalanche. Could be you!

uranian's picture

I'd have said this as a PM if I could see that functionality here, but as I can't ~ thank you.

KashNCarry's picture

*Just for clarity's sake; I plan on fighting no power, unless it starts a fight with me first. I just plan on not consenting to giving these fucks money any more.*

Er, that is I believe fighting the power because the fight has already been taken to you, and you have assessed correctly, that you won't Feed the power with your money anymore. Ergo-continue on, and fight the power!

Kaiser Sousa's picture

"Not paying taxes is kinnda stupid, as you are placing a large sign on you."

continuing to be a willful slave of the banking elite and the instrument of your own oppression is more than stupid - it is pathetic...

be free of die a slave...there will be no compromise from those who choose to live free.................

Irelevant's picture

While I do agree with your argument you are ignoring ONE GIANT FACT, 98%+ of the people have no fucking clue what is going on and they will see in you not a hero but a dangerous lunatic that the state needs to care for.

I`m talking about SMART o opposition, not STUPID opposition. Don`t die a hero for a crowd that needs no heroes.

Be free not as a dead hero, but as a smart individual. There is no cause at this point to die for. The "people" are BRAINWASHED and WILL SEE YOU AS A THREAT.

Kaiser Sousa's picture

not ignoring that faced with that reality everytime i step out the front door...

the Matrix may have been a movie but the underlying story is REAL as confirmed by all those who cant differentiate the world they been told they live in versus the one they actually do live in...

when fear is overpowered by your rage at how fucked up shit is you dont give a fuck about the consequence of death... "we all got it coming kid" like Clint said in Unforgiven...

so be it if it comes to me resisting the despotic United States of The Bankers................

Irelevant's picture

You see, bankers, Bernanke himself has only one pair of balls and shits via one hole, as we all do. He will be dead, as we all will, some time from now. All this will be what is called history. At this particular point in history I don`t think its a very smart idea to be a stand up guy.

If we have Cyprus readership, willing to be a hero, go to those ATM lines and tell the ordinary folk you knew this would happen, so you have no money in the bank, and think the banks will never reopen, and that the politicians they just voted for are all lying and that they are tools of the masters in Bruxelles and Moscow. See what happens, how many agree with you.

We need to let 10 years pass and make sure we survive. Anyone that understands can join, but he has to come to this side, by himself.

uranian's picture

I don't think the inland revenue is going to send black helicopters after me for a few thousand, as I'm not doing a Wat Tyler here.

Liberty or death? I'm not planning on putting myself on the front lines, but I've had enough of being a sit down and be raped by banksters kinda guy. That we've recently seen the world's largest financial crime, and that it's resulted in - surprise - no criminal convictions, and it's documented that the government/BoE has been involved, I no longer have any illusions that change is possible from within.

Element's picture

Look, let's get real, you are on the list - NOW. There is no hiding for you. Zerohedge would be one of the most watched sites on the net for people like you, and everyone here, speaking openly and fearlessly about what is going on. They have your names and your current location, to +/- 100 meters. If you're in a city, or have a smartphone, then smile, you're probably on candid camera.

You do have a big sign over your head.

And a you are not going to emerge in ten years from obscurity to say "I was there", at zh, all those years ago. Most likely most of us will be dead before that the way thins are degenerating. As far as civilians go we are prime targets, you are ground-zero for the police state. Either accept this, that you many not get out of this alive, or unplug and try to change your country and identity, and never come back again.

As I see it, who here doesn't know that this is likely to be the situation in a few years from now? Our best bet is to be effective and fearless and keep doing this because they're collapsing, but zh is making a difference, to how that plays out.

Looking at what Medvedev is saying to the world and to Western Govts above! I can hardly believe that we have a RUSSIAN leader speaking out in the defense of the basic rights of people in the Western World, and utterly condemning the Governments of Europe for letting this occur!

That's gob-smacking! Think about it! When has that happened?

So it may well be that we may find ourselves relying on the good will and moral support and aid of all sorts of countries that we would never have thought might standing up for us, to protect us from the excesses of our own degenerating Govts.

It's a crazy world we're in Mr Irelevant, but all the best to you, and good luck with whatever you do.

Crisismode's picture

So many wackos.



So little time.


Lord Of Finance's picture

HAHA.  Right on "brother". This sight is full of wack jobs. I just felt the need to give you support and tell you to leave this wasteland of paranoid minds. This site has gone downhill real fast. I sent an e-mail to ZH to end my membership because I keep getting e-mail updates which I never signed up for. 


This web site needs a philosophical cornerstone as one of its purposes. If the tylers think they can just defeat the establishment by gaining whatever alliances they can, no matter how phuckin crazy many of these people are, then they have not thought things over too clearly.


In the 'art of war', in order to achieve victory, one must choose allies carefully. If we all come together regardless of our philosophical backrounds, then not only will we not defeat our enemy, we will not agree at all on what to replace it with.


I see the tylers ask for "donations". That makes me wonder. These tylers are very wise, but how could they(if they were really serious), overlook one of the most important components in achieving victory over ones enemy, and that is seeking beneficial alliances.


But that is the way it has been throughout history. So many people do not comply with these ancient directives in achieving victory in battle. Just look at Egypt. They all wanted to see an end to Mubarek, but know they have something even worse in its place. I am sure those dumbasses all said, "lets not fall for divide and conquer tactics! Lets all unite for our agreed upon goal!"  Hooray? No. You see. Getting rid of Mubarek was not the real "end". These bufoons did not follow the art of war, which also applies to non-combative purposes. We all "know our enemy", but we dont all agree on what shall replace our enemy. The replacement of the enemy IS the real "end"!





Trosky lamented the failure

Lord of Finance has spoken truth. 



To all you quack jobs out here, I demand you at once . . .




Oh thats right. You have no leader. No clue. No knowledge.


Just lost time and mind


Element's picture

Take me to your leader bitch!! LOL hilarious

So you read Sun Tzu? Well who hasn't?

Remember the Opium wars? Who won?

Oh, a little navy from the other side of the planet?

The Limeys must have a better book, no?

lord of finance? .. phft! ... sure

BTW, the emails you get sent are due to user account settings (I see you were a member for 17 weeks and still couldn't work it out)

aye! ... dumb you are.

Lord Of Finance's picture



Your anger and hostility show what an angry schizoid you are. You all have some serious pre-frontal cortex and temporal lobe defects.  I suggest you sign up for Obama care or go to the government asstance care in whatever countries you paranoid schizos are inhabiting and get a SPECT scan of your useless brain. The scan will help the doctors find where the damage is and get all of you on the proper psychiatric meds.


Just tell the doctors that 'Lord of Finance' says I have brain damage, and these medical professionals will get all of you the proper psychiatric medications, along with some behavioral therapy.  Good luck!      :D

Element's picture


"This site has gone downhill real fast."

How would you know, you've been a member for 17 weeks 5 days.

Quite an old-hand there! You must have seen a bit in your time, huh? lol

Lord Of Finance's picture

You do not have to be a member to read the posts. I have been a reader for 3 years before I decided to respond to a post, and therefore I had to join you smart ass.


You are much more the ass then you are smart.

It does not always have to be this way. It is up to you to truely wise up.


I would say that over the last 6 months, I have noticed the rubbish on this site getting more and more outlandish.  I am leaving this site to the vultures, but I wandered into this articles responses, and like any sane person who wanders into an insane spectacle, I just started reading the paranoid thoughts and I got baffled and mesmorized by the absurdity. Absurd, crazy, incomprehensible rubbish, and so now I can certainly say . . .


Good riddance to bad rubbish!

Element's picture

So in the preceeding 3-years it was all peaches and cream? You just noticed this over six months? Wow. I read this blog for a long time before I joined it too, and it has always been much like this in my experience. It is an open forum with no censors, so you are going to get anything and everything, but mostly it's the most current info and brillaint analysis around.

BTW zh does have a philosophy, it's in the manifesto link, at the top of the page. Which is kind of hard to miss, especially for such an experienced reader as yourself.


toodle-pip old boy!

Lord Of Finance's picture

Zero hedges bullshit point manifesto has no solid philosophical construct or foundation.


Its manifesto is bland and meaningless.


It is not founded on ANY philosophical principles! whether it be economic or ethics. The fact that you or anyone can mistake the ZH "mission" statement as a real manifesto or philosophical principle just show how mistaken and blind you all are.


At least successful movements had real manifestos and real philosophical principles, be they good or evil. At least they stood for something with meaning. It is proof of your naivity and lack of true understanding that which gathers all of you to this despotic state to profess such mindless and juvenile illogical statements.


If ZH would have not made such a generic statement about its mission and had REAL ideological principles as its cornerstone or foundation, then maybe they would have accomplished something more than gathering a bunch of delusional minds togethet to discuss the insane and inane.


How about setting its mission to educate the people on the solid economic principles of Austrian economic theory? Set the intellectual principles on Ayn Rands economic ideas? Set the ethical foundational economic principles on the ideas of Hayak or M. Friedman? How about setting the foundational principles on something other then a misunderstanding and historical revision of the enlightenmight philosophical economic concepts?


Now that I have gone above and beyond my duty as an educator and human being to clarify my position that should be clearly obvious to anyone with a sound logical construct in that cranium of theirs, I will part from this site for good and leave to the vultures such as yourselves, because I am falling into Twains synopsis on argueing with idiots, and that is; I am being taken down to the same level as all of you, and quite hon

Lord Of Finance's picture

Zero hedges bullshit point manifesto has no solid philosophical construct or foundation.


Its manifesto is bland and meaningless.


It is not founded on ANY philosophical principles! whether it be economic or ethics. The fact that you or anyone can mistake the ZH "mission" statement as a real manifesto or philosophical principle just show how mistaken and blind you all are.


At least successful movements had real manifestos and real philosophical principles, be they good or evil. At least they stood for something with meaning. It is proof of your naivity and lack of true understanding that which gathers all of you to this despotic state to profess such mindless and juvenile illogical statements.


If ZH would have not made such a generic statement about its mission and had REAL ideological principles as its cornerstone or foundation, then maybe they would have accomplished something more than gathering a bunch of delusional minds togethet to discuss the insane and inane.


How about setting its mission to educate the people on the solid economic principles of Austrian economic theory? Set the intellectual principles on Ayn Rands economic ideas? Set the ethical foundational economic principles on the ideas of Hayak or M. Friedman? How about setting the foundational principles on something other then a misunderstanding and historical revision of the enlightenmight philosophical economic concepts?


Now that I have gone above and beyond my duty as an educator and human being to clarify my position that should be clearly obvious to anyone with a sound logical construct in that cranium of theirs, I will part from this site for good and leave to the vultures such as yourselves, because I am falling into Twains synopsis on argueing with idiots, and that is; I am being taken down to the same level as all of you, and quite hon

Lord Of Finance's picture

. . . I am being taken down to the same level of idiocy as all of you, and quite honestly you all have much more experience then I do on that level.


Now I am not saying you are foolish for believing in conspiracy of a banking elite/cartel. I believe in the conspiracy as well. There is nothing wrong with believing in conspiracy, as long as it is something made plausible by documentation as the Tylers have done, as well as some other writers have done.


But do undersyand that my understanding is much different from yours and most of thr posters here, and maybe as well as the tylers themselves.

   A conspiracy can mean anything. As Kiyosaki notes, "at a football game, when bothteams enter the locker room at half-time, they are also conspiring against one another."


What we need to defeat these opponents of ours is a game plan. A realistic plan. A good plan that is based on core values and beliefs. I am not talking only in spiritual terms here. I am talking about IDEALS. Without them, we are all as good as dead. The bansters have their ideals and they are well organized, connected and have terrible consequences for us. We all know this, but what do we do about it?


You are not foolishly paranoid if you think there is a conspiracy or even if you think their intentions are nefarious. But all this chatter about not having bank accounts and going under the radar are loony and that will not help in bringing real change we all can believe in. First, we have to have a more common and central belief then just "ending the fed".   The founding fathers did not all agree on many things, but they had a fundimental and philosophical belief that MOSTLY all the colonists were able to rally behind. Without core principles and values, we have no chance.


  I believe you people are paranoid, s

Lord Of Finance's picture

. . . so it is with nations, so it is with individuals-(vice-versa).  You all should be commended on following through with the credo; 


  'stop bitchin', and start a revolution'


but you have only thought through half the scenario. What happens after the revolution? What replaces the fed/cartel?


  Of course you have no idea what comes after. You are short sighted, and therefore you shall remain the fools you claim not to be.

Element's picture

Combat 101 - Day 1, Hour 1, Second 1: Your first lesson

No plan survives the first contact.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Your scrawls read like amateur-hour at a kindergarten. No one needs to bring you down to the level of a fool, you're there. Your reactions are fear-based, due to what was written above. You can't face it, so you now want to distance yourself as you are a flighty gutless coward.

Own it.


Lord Of Finance's picture

You are such a dipshit. My writing is kindergarten? You obviously got your shit inside out and upside down. I effectively refuted all your fallacious rebuttals and you never countered with any FACTS as to how I am wrong!


You are the coward who sits behind a computer monitor living in a low rent, white trash existance. You have no idea who it is you are talking to. I know you are a low rent piece of trash because NOBODY who is successful and learned writes in the infantile manner in which you spew your incoherent rambling that I shot down with little effort. I have more knowledge and wisdom in the bottom quadrant of my hypothalimus, then all you lowlifess have in your entire warped and useless brains.


You are all low rent transient losers who need to grow up and stop acting like a bunch of crazy morons. You are a joke to the rest of society and that is why you assemble here in cyberspace, because it provides the only escape from your sad, meager and bitter existence.







Lord Of Finance's picture



  You might want to lay off the pot. Pot causes paranoid, delusional thoughts and states of psychosis in certain individuals. Mary jane is not for everyone. Not all people should smoke it. Individuals such as yourselves should stop using it now before it causes you more brain damage. 


Some people have no psychotic symptoms for its usage, but you are not the "some" I am refering to.


Seriously people, will you please grow up. Start being healthy, mature and intelligent adults. You must have had a rough childhood, but that is no excuse for your state. You have to realize all the people who had it worse then you. I dont feel sorry for you, because you should know better than to blame your current state of circumstances on the fed or your obvious troubled yu

Remember what I said earlier. Technology has rapidly improved in the neuroscience field, much more so then any other medical field. I recommend again that you have a SPECT scan done on your brains. You will definitely need to have a scan done to see where the damage is so you can get the proper medications see where the damage to your brain is and you can get the proper prescription to remedy the areas that have been damaged. Best of luck!

Lord Of Finance's picture

BTW. I teach history and philosophy at the college level. You stated that my writing was 'kindergarten scrawl'? 


I would seriously reconsider and re-read your comments. Of course you will never be able to objectively see that I am much more experienced at debate, discourse and writing. I have written more over the last year, then you will ever do in a lifetime.




Can I use your writing skills as examples for my students on how not to write? I figured I should ask first. 


You are with like minded fools here on this site, but up against me, you are certainly out of your 'element'!


honestann's picture

Replace the predators and their fictions with nothing.  The goal is an absense of human predators and parasites, and an absense of fictions believed to be real.  Why would I want to replace one evil with another?

So your plan is for everyone to do nothing, and allow the predators free reign to do whatever they wish to everyone... until 100% of humans on planet earth can agree "what to replace them with"?  That is nothing but a guarantee the predators rule forever.

Is this your philosophy?  What is your philosophy?  What philosophy should ZH have?

Lord Of Finance's picture





I recommend a SPECT scan for every one of you.


What philosophy?


I stated several of my examples several posts higher. That should be definitive enough. I suggest all of you do some real reading of scholarly works that have been thoroughly examined and studied. 


AYN RAND-  Capitalism (The Unknown Ideal)


Freiderick Hayak-  The Road to Serfdom


Anything by Ludwig von Mises and Milton Freidman


That only covers a few drops in the bucket on economic philosophy. Next week class, I'll assign some books on philosophical foundations of moral/ethical reason.Of course you are too warped to comprehend how these philosophical constructs have a great deal to do with economic philosophy, but that will be a lesson for another day.

honestann's picture

Those are good books and good references (though not so sure about Milton).  At least you didn't cop out, and I give you a thumbs up for that.

I understand your criticism of me --- obviously you haven't read the majority of my posts on ZH.  That is understandable and forgivable, since we all have limited time, and I haven't read most of yours either.

So you don't realize that I have posted a great many philosophical messages in ZH, including many very fundamental ones, and how fundamental philosophy (metaphysics, epistemology and ethics) support what is also considered a branch of philosophy that is called "politics".  The fact is, almost the entirety of "politics" is pure fiction, and therefore should probably not be considered part of philosophy.

You really should go back and find at least one of my posts where I explained at great length how the fundamental story of mankind is "predator versus producer".  This explains a great deal about the current state of mankind, and does so in terms of fundamental philosophy.  For example it explains where "ethics" comes from.  Hint:  Humans acting as predators have no "ethics" or any need for "ethics", they only have a modus-operandi, which is "get away with whatever you can".  When some humans started to become producers (as a way of life), they had to invent (identify) "ethics" to justify simple and obviously reasonable actions like "stopping human predators and parasites from just grabbing all the goods and goodies (crops) they produced".

These messages will explain to you why natural "ethics" is simply "causality applied to human actions".  Actually, I think you might enjoy those posts, and get something from them.  These messages are more rigorously "reality-based" than what you'll find in AR or elsewhere, and they essentially agree with those references in many ways, but give a hard-core basis in fundamental reality that those authors were not quite able to recognize or express for some reason.

honestann's picture

Good, put the clueless on notice.

But also remember that ways exist to be brave and helpful that will probably NOT paint a crosshair on your forehead.  If you are a producer and you simply SHRUG (and only exchange real goods for real goods henceforth), you are less dangerous and less visible or interesting to the predators than the 150,000,000 odd people who get food stamps, unemployment, welfare or other so-called "freebees" (boy are they not free, but you know what I mean).

So everyone who "gets it" to a reasonable degree can HELP the cause.  You don't need to stick your neck out any more than random folks.  Of course "random folks" will be weeded out after "liberty advocates" AKA "domestic terrorists" (most of whom own no weapons and never harmed a fly), but that's quite a ways down the pike (a few extra years, perhaps).

So judge your bravery, and do whatever you can up to your risk limit.  If every producer simply stopped producing, the predators would lose in a matter of weeks, and probably be dead in a matter of months, without a single shot from any liberty advocate.  Unfortunately we can't organize well enough in this world of overwhelming insanity and cluelessness to achieve any such "clean" solution.  But do what you can.  At least you'll feel clean.

Element's picture

A global strike and withdrawal of all labor would do it in short order, but dancing with the stars is on, so we had to reschedule.

I'm less and less inclined to playing things safe. I almost died when I was six, drowned, seriously, I drowned, went through the whole thing. You wouldn't believe how lucky I was to get revived, so every day is a bonus, and I feel like splurging all of them. I just don't get afraid of doing things or saying things. It seems impulsive to some, or brave or stupid, whatever, but so what. I've died before, and it didn't hurt a bit. The only bad part was the fear of breathing under water, I panicked like you can not imagine, and when I finally had to breath the water, all panic stopped. It was a complete shock to wake up alive and somewhere else after that. I knew I was done, and suddenly I had another life, like nothing had happened.

So I don't have the fears most people seem to have, and I don't have a strong sense of self-preservation due to that, like others do, and my motivation matrix is apparently completely different. What are the crims going to do to me kill me? Ha! No really HAAA!! They can't scare someone like me to silence, it won't happen. And I like it Ann. I love it, not caring. I feel sorry for those who are so afraid of 'outcomes', the 'future', I know they can't help being like that, but quasi-dying made me live. Nothing in this world can ever undo that. And the people who might want us to shutup, they are nothing. They have NOTHING that compares to this effect of having died and got the second free bonus life. Dying is not our enemy, fear is our enemy.

Love ya babe, have a great day.

Ghordius's picture

this kind of experiences can lead a man to the path of stoicism, yes

I personally dislike HonestAnn's "predator" theme, then I feel that it hides the humanity of the people involved, but yes, predators can sense fear, and so fear is the last thing you should give yourself to if you are dealing with predators, eh?

I find your comment about a global strike interesting - it reminds me of the plebeian revolutions in ancient Rome. I also find such a "socialistic" "solution" quite refreshing and novel, here in the ZH comment section

Element's picture

I don't see what is 'socialistic' about a global strike in this context, it is not being use as a means of bargaining with an employer, it is a tool commonly used instead of violence for the mass of people to get what they require from a system they are demanding reforms from, or else to tell the Govt it will no longer be recognized.

Worked for Poland, no one died, Govt and also ideology swept away. Why would anyone want to interpret strike with a political ideology or association? Most people live in a community, but don't call them communes.

As for predators, and their human side, yeah, nice crab bait.

Lord Of Finance's picture

The plebians were forced into debt. They had no choice in the matter. The American people are not forced into debt. I have no debt. I borrowed money to finance a car, but I did have several other choices.

   The banksters sold the people on debt spending back in the 1960's.  That is when 30 year morgages and 5 year car loans were being introduced. The choice was given to the people and the people CHOSE debt to the banks. They had other options. They became greedy just like the banksters. The banksters knew their plan would work.They know that greed lies in the hearts and souls of most men. It is just like the lyric in the song 'Dogs' written by R.Waters; ". . . and you believe at heart everyones a killer!'


  Indeed they do, and it turns out they were mostly correct. The banksters knew that big profits were in store on this belief. 

In 1960, the average home price was $10, 000. The average anual salary was about $7,000. The average morgage was 5-7 years! 


The banksters needed more debt spending by the people to greatly increase their lust for greed. They introduced/tempted the people into "owning" bigger and better! They played on the greed/keeping up with the Jones' factor and it worked. The devils laid out the offer of temptation, and the sheep dove in.


The plebians were imprisoned for failure to pay debt. The patriarchs today know that will mean less money for them. They just offer them knew debt systems to continue to play the game of hope-get greedy-lose.  Until the persons credit is so wiped out that they are ni longer useful to the banks and can no longer buy/sell their debt. But make no mistake. Unlike the plebians, the rest of us have choices.

honestann's picture

You are technically correct...

---  BUT  ---

Your own message provides the other side of the coin.  Not exactly a justification for going into debt to buy a home.  And definitely not a justification for living an entirely debt-based existence.  But your message clearly demonstrates what may be the main reason people are sucked into debt today.

In 1960, people could buy a home with 1 year of their income, 2 years at most.  My parents paid exactly 1 year income in about 1960 for the 4-bedroom home where we lived as kids (6 of us kids, 1 income earner).

Today, a house costs MUCH MORE.  This is not entirely due to the fiat debt-based economics you and I both hate.  In fact, at the current [very unusual] point in time, interest rates are held down artificially.  But the widespread adoption of "life by debt" made the cost of a home more-or-less irrelevant for people.  They no longer needed to have 100% of the price of a home in savings, they only needed 20% (and now 0% to 4%), and they could even put that on a credit card if they wanted.

Thus the price of homes shot through the roof --- increased by several times.  Homes can be built much cheaper, and they were built much cheaper in years past.  The reason they are more expensive today is not just because they are larger or more luxurious, they are also more expensive because people are willing to pay more, so builders charge more (and fail to hold down their costs, because they don't need to).

A few years ago I performed a careful analysis of how much homes would cost if we lived in a pure "physical gold == money" system without any form of fractional-reserve banking.  The answer is: 8x to 12x.  When you consider how dominant "a home" is in the scheme of the personal budgets of most individuals and families, this explains a lot about why people THINK they NEED debt.

In the past, you save for 2 to 5 years, then buy a house for cash (perhaps with a little help from the parents of you and your new spouse).  From that day forward your "personal economics" are very healthy!  Not only did you just lose your "rent payment" every month (with no "mortgage payment" replacing it), but the single largest expense of almost everyone today simply does not exist.  That $2000 or $3000 or $5000 per month that people pay for NOTHING (for living in a wholesale "debt-based system") is now available for other spending.

Think about this!  Every month you have $2000 of spending money available!  You can buy a car for cash after only 7 to 12 months of savings (depending on car).  You can save for 4 or 5 years and have $100,000 cash to start a new business.  Or you can simply spend like a drunken sailor ($2000~$5000 extra per month) your whole life... without going into debt!

My point is this.  The very existence of a "debt-based system" inherently drives up prices.  Therefore, to live a given level of lifestyle, people need LOTS MORE MONEY.  This is one reasons people feel debt is so necessary... to live a lifestyle they know should be commensurate with the time and effort they spend working (which should more-or-less correspond with their productivity, thought that's another story).

Yes, I personally disagree with the decision of the vast majority to go into debt to live the lifestyle they expect, even if they deserve it.  But I do understand it --- especially when you consider how massively brainwashed people are by advertising and "social pressures".

disclaimer:  I always lived frugally (probably most people would say "insanely frugally", but I disagree).  I have never been in debt, never took a loan.  I've never purchased or owned a radio, stereo, boom-box, television, jewelry, watch, expensive clothes or [large list of common but unnecessary goodies].  I have spent quite a bit (probably $200K ~ $300K) over the years for high-quality technical goods that I need to do my productive work, but most of those expenses more than paid for themselves (in combination with endless hours of my efforts).  So I do not excuse or justify living a debt-based existence --- just the opposite!  Depending on how you look at the situation, you could say that those of us who never go into debt get the worst deal of all.  We too are punished by having to pay much higher prices for everything, even though we didn't cause the high prices.  Which is my point --- the pressure to borrow is made much greater by the insane debt-based system that exists today.

uranian's picture

I was kettled and photographed a long time ago, and I know about echelon, so I've long considered everything I say on the internet/telephone very likely recorded. I live in the most CCTVed up nation on Earth, and I have a smartphone, so yes, I agree with you that my interactions are no secret.

If I allowed this to affect my actions, I've already lost to those who watch.

morning's picture

Done the same for a more practical reason. When my deadlines come the system will be gone here.

Irelevant's picture

In my opinion during the next 10 years its best to be "nobody" and just blend in ... or there is this pill