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Saxo Bank CEO: "Is Cyprus Deposit Levy The First Sign Of Widespread Wealth Tax?"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Authored by Lars Seier Christensen, via his blog at TradingFloor.com,

Confusion reigns supreme in the Cyprus bailout. So it is fairly risky to stick out your neck commenting on an unknown outcome that could leave you exposed to ridicule in hours if things change. And this blog is not intended to be a daily or even weekly commentary as I am not providing short-term trading advice, meaning that it is tempting to just wait and see what the outcome will be.

However, as this is so far the most important macroeconomic event of 2013 and it is continuously developing in new and perplexing ways, I feel it is necessary to try to make some sense out of what we are observing and hearing.

What we know now is that the Cypriot parliament has rejected the bailout package after a poker game with the Troika, trying to deal many different hands varying from zero percent deposit tax for the smaller depositors to 15 percent on the larger ones. None of the combinations have proved sufficiently appetising to secure a deal so far.

Read more about this .. here.

 

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Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:14 | 3354057 WayBehind
WayBehind's picture

Yes, it is! And if you have any cash in our bank ... well, the cash is ours!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:18 | 3354073 flacon
flacon's picture

Who keeps large amounts in digital currency anyway? I can see a couple grand to pay the bills, but other than that I find it had to believe that mankind is stupid enough to keep hundreds of thousands of "units" of data ("money") in a "bank". I simply don't believe it. Nobody is THAT stupid. Are they?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:19 | 3354080 Double.Eagle.Gold
Double.Eagle.Gold's picture

when you have 8 figures, it becomes more problematic...

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:47 | 3354240 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

you are mixing cash with assets.
very few have 8 digits in cash, yes though in stocks, bonds, funds etc.
If you buy shares, futures, bonds, etc. they cannot deduct a percentage of your wealth, so far, unless you sell your assets or they expire.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:07 | 3354328 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Why did the teutonic kleptocrats pull such a vulgar theft attempt on the people of Cyprus (and on the people of Russia)?

Answer: Deutsche Bank is completely freefalling and about to enter the last second (i.e. splatter on the floor). The oligarchs (german imperial family) who will be wiped out are in complete PANIC mode.

Now Russia knows that they can't trust the germans (they have known this for centuries, but this was just another confirmation) and Putin will pull the plug on the euro.
Time for another weimar-style episode for Germany.

Long Ruble, short Euro and Douche Bank.

edit: when the euro hyperinflates, the most likely scenario will be europe adopting the US Dollar. Then that too will suffer the same fate.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:43 | 3354490 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Wasn't the first sign inflation? If every year your savings decrease by ? who knows ? two percent? five? ten?

Well, what's the difference between that and a tax?

To be sure, it's a bit more subtle, but otherwise?

Does make you wonder why the hamfisted thing in Cyprus.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:20 | 3354604 wintermute
wintermute's picture

Ahmeexnal, I see you are smart enough to know that fiat is doomed, I also have read your comments labelling Bitcoin as ponzi.

I urge you to at least take a day out and read about how this currency works, why it cannot be confiscated, and why it is as good as virtual gold. It has a strong user base in Russia and Ukraine. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=10.0

Even a small allocation of 10% of ones personal  investment funds is a sensible step. The trick is now to find a pull-back in price to get in as it has spiked a lot in 2013, even considering its powerful fundamentals.

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:36 | 3354685 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Can you hold it in your hands and defend it with firearms?

 

I guess I don't see the benefit...

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:44 | 3354702 wintermute
wintermute's picture

Yes, you can. Your holdings can be stored on any USB pendrive, or even the private key (a few dozen letters and digits) can be hammered into a metal plate and stored with your spare guns in a cannister in the ground for years. No problem.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:45 | 3354717 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

And if I brought that to the local market (post financial collapse)and tried to trade my usb drive for bread, they would accept it?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:04 | 3354734 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

A victim of collision on the open sea
Nobody ever said that life was free
Sank, swam, go down with the ship
But use your freedom of choice

I'll say it again
In the land of the free
Use your freedom of choice
Your freedom of choice

In ancient Rome there was a poem
About a dog who found two bones
He picked at one, he licked the other
He went in circles, he dropped dead

Freedom of choice
Is what you got
Freedom of choice

Then if you got it, you don't want it
Seems to be the rule of thumb
Don't be tricked by what you see
You got two ways to go

I'll say it again
In the land of the free
Use your freedom of choice
Freedom of choice

Freedom of choice
Is what you got
Freedom of choice

In ancient Rome there was a poem
About a dog who found two bones
He picked at one, he licked the other
He went in circles, he dropped dead

Freedom of choice
Is what you got
Freedom from choice
Is what you want

Which metal are those bitcoins hammered into? Unless it's a metal known to be...the best electrical conductor, reflector, PURE ENERGY when used in conjunction with H2O2 , and has a proven track record backed by millennia as a store of value....I'll pass for now.

http://en.numista.com/catalogue/photos/etats-unis/g1702.jpg

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:48 | 3354901 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Yeah, let me just check back in three thousand years and see how that bitcoin is holding up...

 

Until then keep "stacking".

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:31 | 3355333 flacon
flacon's picture

I don't like bitcoin either, but let me check back in three thousand years and see how Johnny is holding up. Having said that I don't want to be buried with any gold, silver or platinum because three thousand years from now I wouldn't mind having my body be at peace with the ground and not dug up by some space alien gold detector created by the government. 

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:33 | 3355591 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

 

 

 

A 'tax' that prompts a bank run that unravels the world finance system and causes it to crash isn't very useful.

 

Is it?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:43 | 3354884 NoClueSneaker
NoClueSneaker's picture

Douche Bank is on Bernank's tit, and fucks around with 3-4 Tr. in derivatives . ( Don't fuck with the Feds ). But .... Germany has some 3000 insolvent banks, and I ask myself why is a craphouse of Commerzbank still standing ???

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:11 | 3355003 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Bravo.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:05 | 3354330 Texas Ginslinger
Texas Ginslinger's picture

Cyprus situation is a tax on tax dodgers.

You need to clarify that.

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:54 | 3355185 Matt
Matt's picture

"Since, ALLEGEDLY, some of these people are tax dodgers, it is ok to confiscate money from all of them." Is that really what you mean? You don't really believe that?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:00 | 3354563 seek
seek's picture

Given current rates of return and volatility, it's much more common now to keep a large cash accounts.

If you're conventionally wealthy (e.g. earned the money over time, and can't count on $10M bonuses to refill the pot), this is truly a challenging environment ro manage risk. You stay away from stocks because it's a Fed-induced fraud freakshow, bonds because you can't trust ratings, funds because withdrawls can be limited (e.g. break the buck), banks are/were considered lower risk, and now that's coming under fire. I know several elderly couples that are basically 100% cash due to unfavorable risk profiles v. return, and can't criticize their choice.

I know the standard answer here is PMs, but you still have the issue of getting money in/out of the system with them and volatility risk as well as security.

I have little doubt when the days comes (in the US at least) that they go to grab cash in bank accounts that IRA balances, private stock holdings etc will be subject to taxes as well. It'll trigger insanity (it will be, in effect, a margin call on the entire financial system) as people simultaneous sell investments to cover taxes with no buyers.

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:09 | 3354780 Clayton Bigsby
Clayton Bigsby's picture

Gold + Guns = o.k.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:01 | 3355212 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Have we all forgotten that the vast majority of corporations are all in cash?

The question we should ask is where is Apple stashing its cash?

Cash Stash

Obviously, why steal from the mere mundanes when the corps have all you need.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:43 | 3354703 skipjack
skipjack's picture

Heh - guess you weren't paying attention re MF Global et al. Good luck with stocks, bonds, etc.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:48 | 3354241 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

double entry due to ipad

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:12 | 3354356 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

And ... It is hard to find good investments
I'll not buy stocks or bonds
I bought real estate when it was fairly valued
I've got pm's
It's a problem

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:08 | 3354773 Clayton Bigsby
Clayton Bigsby's picture

Not if it's in physical, it ain't

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:23 | 3354111 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

LOL!!!  I was looking at rates history today, and some old bank statements.

It appears that the US was the first one to seize savings through,....

Wait for it.

 

Wait for it...

 

ZIRP.

BEN YOU BETTER OWN A FUCKING ISLAND BY NOW YOU MOTHER FUCKER>.................................

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:26 | 3354131 jazze
jazze's picture

Why would the US piss of its voting citizens by stealing 29% of their wealth to pay back the chinese, japanese and the Fed?

Especially with the world's most powerful military

 

I don't get how the 29% tax thing is going to happen.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:33 | 3354161 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Ask yourself, what is the average "wealth" of the average voter?  

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:48 | 3354217 akak
akak's picture

Before or after their monthly EBT payment arrives?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:59 | 3354306 Esso
Esso's picture

Does it really matter when your choices are negative and not-quite-as negative?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:56 | 3354546 citizen2084
citizen2084's picture

There is a "not quite as negaitive" ? I missed that choice...

 

peAce

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:50 | 3354728 Esso
Esso's picture

90% Really Negative Net Worth

5% Negative Net Worth

3.99% Not-Quite-As-Negative Net Worth

1% Rich

.01% Super Ultra Mega Rich. [tax exempt]

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:55 | 3354544 cosmyccowboy
cosmyccowboy's picture

is that b4 tax r after???

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:40 | 3354197 Vashta Nerada
Vashta Nerada's picture

It is the logical end game of Keynesian economics. If you don't spend your money to reflate our economy, we'll do it for you - using your money.

Keynsians borrow when they can, but if they can't, well, whose name is on those banknotes anyway?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:43 | 3354210 ACP
ACP's picture

WEALTH TAX - THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE DICKHEADS IN CHARGE USE ONE OF DONALD TRUMP'S IDEAS:

http://articles.cnn.com/1999-11-09/politics/trump.rich_1_donald-trump-tr...

(proposed by Trump in 1999)

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:36 | 3354849 Element
Element's picture

 

 

Still part of the Keynsian program, everything means everything.

“We are looking at what could be a very long siege here,” [he got that right] Krugman said in an interview today in Princeton, New Jersey, with Carol Massar of Bloomberg Television’s “Street Smart.” “We really are at a stage where we should have a kitchen-sink strategy. We should be throwing everything we can get at this.

- Paul Krugman, July 6th 2010

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-06/krugman-says-kitchen-sink-strat...

What amazes me is I still see MSM and blog articles that assume you can get a stable long-term recovery from here without most of the existing private and public debt in the world being written-down first. They apparently think that people with debts up to their eyeballs are going to keep paying and borrowing and buying. They don't seem to realize that unless there's exponential debt growth just to pay the ponzi needs of interest owed on older loans, then mass default crisis's are assured to snowball, regardless of ANY other actions or austerity policies undertaken. Until people realize there's no way out via a muddle-through, we're just going to keep seeing deterioration and very dangerous political unrest.

The Tylers could maybe do an article on this reality to make sure people understand that there's a limit, and we are riding along its edge. We are the snails crawling up the edge of a straight razor ... and surviving ... for now.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:46 | 3354232 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

You moron.  They'll not "steal" it from"citizens".  They'll "tax" it from the "rich".   About 25% of all US citizens have a 401(k) or similar accout.  What better marker for being "rich"?  Easy, peasy, Japanesy.  Literally Japanesy.  

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:17 | 3354367 Esso
Esso's picture

Don't forget about a federal sales tax and a one-time federal "emergency" property tax on RE, cars or anything else with your name on it. Lotta possibilities now that the rubicon has been crossed. Thank Jeebus that pesky ol' rule-of-law thingy is dead. Nuthin' but blue skies ahead!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:21 | 3354393 auric1234
auric1234's picture

They will do it when the cost of not doing it would be hyperinflation.

The Fed represents all paper holders. They need to keep the music playing so that people don't realize their paper is worthless. So, once they can't monetize further, nominal confiscation also becomes a possible outcome.

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:38 | 3354473 Renfield
Renfield's picture

I had to read your comment twice to get the implication of this: that hyperinflation could be that close.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:21 | 3354635 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Fiat isn't worthless.  If it was, they wouldn't confiscate it.

QED

uh oh . . .

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:47 | 3354510 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

The pension plans are much juicier...not to mention property taxes...both easy to find and super easy to tax.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 00:09 | 3355687 Mugatu
Mugatu's picture

Jazee

There will not be a need for any additional taxes in the US.  Do you really think it is hard to just leave the printing press on for 15 minutes more each day?  Do you think the US government (or any government for that matter) is so honest that they would never lie about how much money is printed or the amount of over-printing done?  How do you think all these black programs get paid for?  

Its just paper dude.  It really isn't worth anything.  If you run out, you just print more.  Germans found that out last Century.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:45 | 3354230 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

He does, its called Manhattan

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:49 | 3354727 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Don't get caught with ur pants down, the last one is always FREE.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:24 | 3354122 kito
kito's picture

flacon, you forget that small business owners need to have money in the bank to take care of overhead, capital expenditures, payroll, etc............small business owners, with all of the challenges in todays environment, shouldnt have to go to bed at night wondering if their hard earned money will be seized the next day.......its sad that this is what the world has come to..........

additionally flacon, there are people that need to save to purchase a home, piece of land, start a business, etc....they need to keep money in the bank to make the purchases.......bringing a suitcase of cash or a bag of gold to the closing on a purchase wont work these days..............so the people arent stupid, its the mother f-cking system---where the average guy has to worry about something simple like keeping cash in the bank--that is stupid................

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:39 | 3354188 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

You can thank ZIRP.  Despite all the lies, there is a very real cost for capital and resource mal-investment and mis-allocation.  When banks were simply banks and there was real consequences for bad behavior, this shit happened less.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:41 | 3354484 new game
new game's picture

maybe it is time to go back to the old west

cash at the end of the cattle drive

then to the bars and bitchezzz.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:18 | 3354624 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

It should be obvious by now that Dear Leader and his regime don't understand basic economics, don't give a damn, or both. They don't give a damn about small businesses. When they decide to take our money, they'll just grab it, the consequences be damned.

Forward (and over the cliff)!

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:32 | 3354443 vs an army all alone
vs an army all alone's picture

Almost every small buisness has 6 digit in their acct. at any given time.

What are they going to do flacon?

 

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:19 | 3354081 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Now, Putin is own Cyprus and all Cypriots.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:41 | 3354205 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

And Putin just opened a new sports complex in Moscow with 'actor' Steven Seagal.

 http://english.pravda.ru/news/sports/13-03-2013/124058-putin_seagal-0/

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:06 | 3354336 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Thank God we still have Chuck Norris on our side.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:58 | 3354555 Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

Steven Seagal the best character actor in the world:

http://geekadelphia.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/steven_segal_emotion_...

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:44 | 3355398 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Mister Seagal is actor!?

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 01:52 | 3355865 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Boris, Steven Seagal is best actor in western world...internet say is so.

Nice to meet you ZH Comrade Boris "The Blade" Alotovkrap.

I hear comrade, that many former KGB brothers have requested services of fellow, former 'operational' comrade of glorius Soviet KGB.

Is good to be back in demand, LAST Glorious Leader of the Supreme True Soviet, Andropov, would be PROUD!

Nods head, smashes back another Vodka, trips up a passing Ukranian whore and polishes Makarov.

FORWARD SOVIET...WE ROLE INTO THE EU!

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:49 | 3354251 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Is plan for world dominance.  

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:16 | 3354366 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Boris is having rare gift for half witty truth spasms.

        Google be praised.

 

Still laughing about that.  Thanx Boris.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:43 | 3354489 new game
new game's picture

boris, you been very busy of late.

find time to update us on homeland wranglings?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:19 | 3354085 jazze
jazze's picture

So there's going to be a 29% wealth tax to take money from americans/europeans to pay back the chinese and japanese creditor bondholders?!

 

Am I not getting it? Who is going to receive the 29% stolen wealth? I don't think US citizen's wealth will be stolen to pay back the chinese and the japanese (and the Fed?).

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:25 | 3354124 Strider52
Strider52's picture

Why do the banks need a bailout? Because they were greedy, and they made lots of money, then the bottom fell out, they made bad bets, and they lost money. That's OK, we don't want the banks to lose, just gain, so we'll repay their losses from the poor and the middle class.

That's F'd up.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:50 | 3354259 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

I'm upvoting the avatar.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:56 | 3354285 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

Yup. I was gonna ask who let the dogs out, but I like those puppies better.  Oh, I just crack me up.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:10 | 3354349 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Is that Pladizow's old gal?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:05 | 3354583 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

If memory serves, that is Cynthia Myers (December, 1968). She did her part for many of our puberties... 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:18 | 3355543 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

Upvoted for providing the name.  Already downloaded the picture.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:26 | 3354410 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

When the banks "made bad bets" and "lost money", who did they lose the money to?  It wasn't the depositors or the taxpayers.  It was other financial service institutions, i.e. banks.

Goldman and JPM were bailed out even though they were winners in the Lehman, Bear, AIG debacle.   The taxpayer bailed out both the winners and the losers! 

The real losers were the savers.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:00 | 3355210 Matt
Matt's picture

Or governments. If they bought Greek bonds, and then suddenly the Greek Government has a haircut on their bonds, it is the Greek government and the recipients of Greek social programs that are getting the money from the bank.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:41 | 3354204 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

By their own admission, the DHS has purchased enough 40 caliber rounds for 75 years of training exercises, just saying.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:48 | 3354511 new game
new game's picture

and the cost of ammo has went skyward.

why dont they buy gold and silver like lead?

just askin...

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:21 | 3354634 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Last time I checked there is no paper derivative market that can distort ammo prices.

Why should TPTB 'buy' gold/silver when all they have to do is requisition sovereirgn property? 

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 06:48 | 3356121 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Think about the savings in 75 years span - totally sound investment, and an insurance for those who invested in those calibers. Profit everywhere!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:54 | 3354274 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

The world's most powerful army at the moment is the afghani taliban army, neck to neck with the iraqi insurgent army, so that's why - they need the extra 29% to get on par with the competition.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:17 | 3354375 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

The money owed those guys is chump change

It is the 1%'ers with the 50+ leverage that want/need the money
Read shadow banking

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:24 | 3354115 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I started my own slow bank run yesterday, and I'm advising those around me to do the same. Probably should have done it long ago, but this shit in Cyprus pushed me over the edge.

It's not so much that the emperor has no clothes, it's that he has no clothes and is shaking his wang in our faces.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:29 | 3354148 Strider52
Strider52's picture

Sheesh, I did that years ago.

Anybody that lets other people hold their money, gold, or valuables, is stupid. The pile of doo-doo is getting closer to the roatating wind device every day; people WILL steal.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:16 | 3354371 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

+1 just for your pic.  But it's so damn distracting, that I can hardly focus on your text.  :-)

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:31 | 3354153 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

@ McMolotov:

I hope you had better replies that this:

"I live paycheck to paycheck"

"It is a tiny island the size of Boston, who cares"

"That was there, not here"

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:57 | 3354292 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

And urinating on us.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:25 | 3354407 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

If anyone believes that "only" $5.8B is involved, I will personally sell them a bridge in New York I have on the market.  It is more likely closer to $500 Billion and the ex KGB and Russian mafia are extremely interested in what will happen to their money.   Putin faced down the IMF and got the wealth tax canceled.  Looks like LeGarde has problems on multiple fronts. 

 

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:27 | 3354658 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Aaaand... Its gone.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:35 | 3354680 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Aye Lads I long for the good ole days, where they simply stole 6 percent of your cash/labor/life per year through inflation; simply taking it in one lump seems rude...and desperate.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:15 | 3354064 ATM
ATM's picture

"We must take those profits"

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:49 | 3354256 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Profits...that's so 2007.  It's now called "surplus value" in D.C.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:16 | 3354068 Hannibal
Hannibal's picture
Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:58PM GMT 0   "Venezuela’s Foreign Minister Elias Jaua says the Latin American nation has cut off all diplomatic contacts with US until American officials respect Venezuela’s sovereignty" source: http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/03/20/294580/venezuela-suspends-all-co...
Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:28 | 3354141 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Time to gather a coalition of the willing and liberate their oppressed asses.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:27 | 3354654 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

They've got OUR oil and OUR gold.  So we're going to liberate the living shit out of them.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 02:47 | 3355945 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

FUCK YEAR!!!!! AMERIKAAAAAR

Do we have enough I.N.T.E.L.L.E.G.E.N.C.E at this point... how do I pay my fair share. Where the fuck is veenuzilla anyway fuckin' arabs.... I knowd it was dem!

I, for one, say Nu-Cu-Lar their arses, fuckin' eyranians.

I gonna get me a 60" ELLCEEDEE TEEVEE wid a no-down and 48 months interest free deal and fuckin' watch our boys toast those fuckers 24 7....

Gimmi MOAR

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:52 | 3354269 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Good.  We can save the overhead from our mission there.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:33 | 3354447 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

D'ya think it was the 'Pop goes the weasel' singing flower boquet to Hugo that did it?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:41 | 3354486 Renfield
Renfield's picture

ha, first laugh of the afternoon

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:18 | 3354075 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

When asked directly this afternoon if the confiscation of depositor money was wrong or unfair Ben Bernanke DODGED THE QUESTION.

He did not say it was wrong, he did not say it was unfair, he did not say he would not do it.

He was asked TWICE and both times DECLINED TO SAY IT WAS WRONG OR THAT HE WOULD NOT DO IT IN THE U.S.!!!!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:20 | 3354097 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

through zirp he has been doing it for years, that's why he dodged it.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:27 | 3354135 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Q: "Are you planning to break into my house and rob me at gunpoint?"

A: "Why go to the trouble when I have a key and can just sneak in to steal small amounts when you're away?"

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:49 | 3354253 brak
brak's picture

How do you know Bernanke isn't some crazy glue-sniffer.  Buildin' model airplanes, he tells them.  Well I'm not buying it.  He sneaks into your house once, thats all it takes.  Next thing you know you got some money missing off your dresser and your daughter's knocked up.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:08 | 3354774 Its_the_economy...
Its_the_economy_stupid's picture

.....and your pain meds are missing.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:21 | 3354100 Racer
Racer's picture

The Fed have been haircutting for a century already

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:29 | 3354415 Esso
Esso's picture

Well, yeah, but it's ONLY been like 98% of purchasing power. It's not like they're greedy and took EVERYTHING. Count your blessings, citizen!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:46 | 3354502 Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

Nobody keeps their wealth in cash or bank demand deposits for eighty+ years....  There is an intentional disincentivizing of cash holdings.  Build a house, a factory, buy gold (despite the gold law), buy farmland and farm it.  Buy forestry and log it.  Buy a politician and get some sweet deal on the books! Invest.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:32 | 3354127 Martial
Martial's picture

hmmm...dodging. Ok. I thought the policy for serious issues was LIE. Come on Benny!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:29 | 3354145 Tucson Tom
Tucson Tom's picture

Do you have a link to that.I want to be even more depressed!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:02 | 3354243 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Reporter:  "As a Central Banker do you think it was appropriate or fair to place a levy on deposits...?"

Bernanke (paraphrased):  "They are facing a difficult situation and need to find resources to address the situation..."

The direct question about Cyprus is at 34:20. 

There is a follow up direct question at 38:35:  "Will the FED ever put a levy on U.S. deposits?".

Bernanke never says he won't do it or that it would be wrong, only dodges by mentioning the FDIC and that a levy would be "unlikely".

Full press conference question/answer session:  http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?play=1&video=3000155807

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:59 | 3354560 new game
new game's picture

desparate people do desparate things

desparate is relative to the situation and alternatives to self preservation.

and, well, they are desparate...

but first we will print.

next, on deck anything of value.

taxing the shit out of r.e.

death tax-fucken-eh i'm dead already-come on give us a break

taxed to death-eh!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:56 | 3354735 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

You know, that so-called reporter with the so-called direct question can go fuck himself.  If it was truly a direct question it wouldn't euphemize THEFT as a levy.  It is theft; plain and simple.

Words matter, because words are how we characterize problems and evaluate the potential efficacy of alternative strategies.  Accuracy in those areas often leads to correct, appropriate solutions (e.g. execute every last one of the motherfuckers [after a fair trial, of course]). 

Euphemisms pollute thought processes; intentionally in this case, IMO.  If any so-called reporter uses the term levy, you know that (s)he's a mouthpiece peddling the party line.  If any of those useless fucks were worth a tinker's damn, they would have given up their fucking seat for someone like Tabbi.  At least Tabbi could, and would, grill that motherfucker like a fish.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:24 | 3354816 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Correct.

The fact that the head of the U.S. Central Bank would not disavow even the euphamism "levy" is an even stronger indication that he views the THEFT OF PRIVATE DEPOSITOR FUNDS AS AN ACCEPTABLE POLICY TOOL.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:09 | 3354283 Spigot
Spigot's picture

German bank CFO states he thinks Italy is wealthy enough to have a "wealth tax" imposed.

New Zealand states they might consider the use of a "wealth tax".

Spain quietly altered their Consitituion in order to have a "wealth tax" option available.

Bernanke visibly dodges questions about the possiblility of a "wealth tax" in the US.

So, grasshopper, what do these dots we see start to look like to you???

And, may I ask, if the "solutions" (to the "problems") is capable of utterly ruining all trust in financial and political institutions, then how bad are the "problems" which they are proposing to fix??

Put another way:

If the Patient is offered the option of a horrible series of treatments vs certain horrible death, one would assume the "treatments" are of a lesser cost compared to the alternative.

If destroying the financial confidence of the entire global populous is a "side effect" worth enduring, what the is the disease/outcome they are treating???

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:14 | 3354363 Spigot
Spigot's picture

And what (and when), one wishs to ask, has been the conversation amongst the elites such that various nations across the globe have been going to the trouble of reviewing and altering their governmental foundations in order to be prepared to impliment a system destroying "tax" which without doubt will utterly alienate ALL account holders, and cause a breach of trust so vile as to cause them to ALSO prepare for civil war (such as purcashing billions of rounds of ammunition)?

Something smells really bad about all of this...

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:32 | 3354435 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

"what the is the disease/outcome they are treating???"

The Middle Class -- they must be snuffed out at all costs!   They are being eliminated as fast as possible.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:38 | 3354470 Spigot
Spigot's picture

I would suggest the problem is far bigger than trying to dismantle a "class". In most of the world there is very little "middle class". You are either a hand to mouth class or you are very wealthy. Remember that most of the deposits in Cyprus are not owned by little people.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:43 | 3354492 Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

Re Bernanke, the US Constitution forbids a tax on wealth unless collected from states in accordance with their population.  There are other limitations.  Taxing capital gain that is merely inflation seems to be fine though, if there is an actual transaction, a sale or exchange of the good.

Jensen, Erik M. (2004) "Interpreting the Sixteenth Amendment (By Way of the Direct-Tax Clauses)" 21 Const. Comment. 355

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:05 | 3354580 new game
new game's picture

not to be an asswipe-but serious, do you think they give one shit about the constitution?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:26 | 3355565 dr.charlemagne
dr.charlemagne's picture

what is this "constitution" of which you speak?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:07 | 3354334 pashley1411
pashley1411's picture

Dude, Bernanke, more than anyone else, knows that currency is just so many 1's and O's.   The trick by which those digits become a medium of exchange is fascinating, and exists completely in a world between your ears.   

Don't blame him that he thinks your little imaginary pile of stored value isn't worth bat guano.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:31 | 3354427 mickeyman
mickeyman's picture

In his book it is neither wrong nor unfair.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:19 | 3354083 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I just need to say this somewhere:

I LOVE ZERO HEDGE!!!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:44 | 3354224 Town Crier
Town Crier's picture

Yes.  Just when I'm breaking down and thinking that, just maybe, drinking the Kool-Aid might be the right thing to do, ZH pulllls me back in!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:08 | 3354344 Spigot
Spigot's picture

Feel the love, ZeroHedge, feel the love

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:06 | 3354585 stant
stant's picture

smart ass capitol of the world! more truth here than anywhere

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:19 | 3354088 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

I prefer boxes to bags anyway... except when that asshole Schroedinger is around.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:34 | 3354169 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

well? is he around or isn't he?

no peeking.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:42 | 3354202 akak
akak's picture

He gave me a wave earlier today, but not one particle of acknowledgment since.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:38 | 3354693 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Damn, I love you guys. Keep your logins for access to my rad bunker.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:37 | 3354860 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

I know. This is better than Saturday Night Live.

Except for the late 70's-80's. NOTHING beat SNL back then.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:56 | 3354943 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Here's an early Weekend Update for you.

 

  This just in: President Hugo Chavez is still dead.


  In other news, the European Union has announced that it is pulling out of Cyprus.  A frustrated Cyprus could not be reached for comment.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:40 | 3354200 TwoCats
TwoCats's picture

The 'conomy is Schroedinger's cat.  It's both alive and dead until someone opens the box lid to check, which triggers the gun.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:51 | 3354266 akak
akak's picture

I think you just described the banking system rather better.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:20 | 3354092 Racer
Racer's picture

new ideas for milking the rich

It isn't for milking the rich..it is milking the ordinary person to give to the rich

They want to keep the bondholders and other rich banksters, rich with no haircut what ...so ...ever

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:35 | 3354166 darteaus
darteaus's picture

401Ks are a $15T target that will not be ignored.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:38 | 3354184 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

That will start a revolution.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:41 | 3354206 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Whatever, dude. It's for the children.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:48 | 3354246 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Exactly!

First, the talk will begin about some people having 401Ks that are just obscenely large,  how the rich benefit disproportionately, how the money could do so much good, etc.

You know the drill.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:56 | 3354278 akak
akak's picture

But 401ks, unlike bank deposits, are not 'cash', but consist mostly of stocks and bonds --- so what is the government going to do with those?  Dump them all at once into the market in some enormous, self-defeating fire sale?

I'm not saying that the sociopaths in the federal government are above such a move, but really, how would, or could, they 'confiscate' the value in 401ks or IRAs en masse?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:37 | 3354469 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

Step 1: Drain half the wealth in 401k plans via an engineered market crash.

Step 2: Step in to "save" those plans by force converting them to USTs at an abysmally low rate of interest.

Step 3: Devalue the currency like a motherfucker, draining the rest of the value out of those holdings.

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:00 | 3354565 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Step 4:  Blame Bush and the counter-revolutionaries.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:45 | 3354491 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Darling akak,

You are so sharp normally.

Friend, all of this is accounting chicanery. There are so many ways I cannot cover them all but if I pretend to be a filthy banker, my imagination goes wild:

  • Throw them all into one pot and call it "Adding to social security to keep it alive until such a time as the social security IOUs can be paid back by the Gov., you know, when the economy gets better." It never comes out again because of default, you take the social security you get and you like it. It is done for the good of the many. Fuck you for trying to hoard.
  • Use them to as collateral for moar "loans" from the Fed. They are now "assets" on the Feds sheet, just for a while. Proceed to do whatever the fuck you like with the freshly printed money (ignore the fact that this creates feedback loops in terms of just what is what, after all, they do). Bonus, show that the treasuries went to back the treasuries that the fed is holding. Do it with a straight face.
  • Corzine the shit. Don't even try to explain it. 
  • Use them as collateral for a loan from the IMF. Default, and lose the value. So fucking sorry that didn't work out.
  • Use them as collateral and rehypothecate them around the system. Use them like fingers in the dyke as small leaks burst everywhere. But don't get too hung up on details.

You keep trying to be logical about this. Stop. Once the Fed started buying treasuries, all logic flew out of the window, the check kiting was made "okay." They will pump that shit for all the lying, distracting, place holding narrative it is worth.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:53 | 3354533 akak
akak's picture

MsCreant, that is all quite insane, and quite plausible in its sheer hypocritical, elite self-serving insanity.

I guess my mind just has trouble traveling the logically contradictory, intellectually and morally twisted, M.C.Escher-like pathways that those in financial and political power evidently find to be second nature.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:00 | 3354559 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

It's because you aren't a sociopath like the assholes running the show. That's a plus in my book.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:58 | 3354553 Esso
Esso's picture

Daaaaaaang, you're good at this.

Is that you, Lloyd? Jamie?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:14 | 3354610 new game
new game's picture

i believe it is 19.2 T.

there has been discussion by the honorable reid from nevada and comittee research.

ahh, yea they see the mountain...

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:57 | 3354551 Being Free
Being Free's picture

But 401ks, unlike bank deposits, are not 'cash', but consist mostly of stocks and bonds --- so what is the government going to do with those?

They don't really care about some fantasy market value, that's just the excuse.  They want control of the means of production.  They already control the capital and a good chunk of the labor.

Game over.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:58 | 3354554 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Why, the government would issue special bonds that would guarantee returns so that the retired would not be subject to market risk:

http://www.examiner.com/article/401k-plans-and-ira-eyed-to-alleviate-fis...

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:42 | 3354698 Town Crier
Town Crier's picture

how would, or could, they 'confiscate' the value in 401ks or IRAs en masse?

 

By passing a vote and saying, 'For your own good, we're going to confiscate the value in 401ks and IRAs."  To the applause of millions.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 19:58 | 3354748 Esso
Esso's picture

"It's for the children."

[Standing ovation]

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:48 | 3354249 Racer
Racer's picture

You don't know what you got til it's gone

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:27 | 3354411 MissCellany
MissCellany's picture

"Haircut"...as if it's just gonna grow back in a month or so...[retch]

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:22 | 3354106 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Not to worry...remain calm...the Russians and the ECB shall colaborate, and deposit €15.8 billion into banks in Cyprus, and this will insure that €130 billion shall be available for withdrawal next Tuesday.  All is well.  

Ummmm...which way to the next planet?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:24 | 3354120 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

holy crap Cdad. well put.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:36 | 3354176 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Also hearing that plan "D" is for the Russians to deposit €130 billion into said banks, so that they can then withdraw €130 billion...so there is a back up plan, too.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 17:38 | 3354187 SpanishGoop
SpanishGoop's picture

And it's gone...

What do you mean, "It's gone ?"

Well your deposit of 15.8 billion, it's gone.

Step aside please, this line is for depositors only.

 

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 18:03 | 3354315 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

southpark reference?

 

http://youtu.be/NmFo-LKHGY0

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