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In Spain, The Bitcoin Run Has Started

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Something extreme is happening in Europe. Since Sunday, Bloomberg Businessweek reports a trio of Bitcoin apps have soared up Spain's download charts, coinciding with news that cash-strapped Cyprus was planning to raid domestic savings accounts to pay off a $13 billion bailout tab. “This is an entirely predictable and rational outcome for what’s happening in Cyprus,” says ConvergEx's Nick Colas. "If you want to get a good sense of the stress European savers are feeling, just watch Bitcoin prices."

The value of the virtual currency has soared almost 30 percent in the last two days. "One hundred percent of that is due to Cyprus," says Colas. "It means the Europeans are getting involved." As German economist Peter Bofinger warned in an interview with Spiegel Online: "European citizens must now fear for their money."

The same apps download data, however, showed that Italians aren’t ready to abandon commercial banking, remarkable as many Italians still recall that black day in 1992 when they woke up to a levy on their savings accounts to prop up the nation’s teetering finances.

 

The EUR price for a Bitcoin has jumped from around EUR37 to over EUR50 in the last two days as reality hits... and look at the volume...

 

Nassim Taleb (On Reddit) - via Mike Krieger (@LibertyBlitz):

"Bitcoin is the beginning of something great: a currency without government, something necessary and imperative."

Chart: Bitcoincharts

 

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Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:29 | 3354829 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Now...why would anyone in Spain want to "convert" something?  And in the process of conversion, I wonder if there are any withdrawals involved?  As for folks in Spain who are collecting .03% on their savings accounts...the question must be asked...as Spanish folk born withouth sense?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:30 | 3354836 Haywood Jablowme
Haywood Jablowme's picture

Boom!  bitchez.....

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:33 | 3354841 Cdad
Cdad's picture

YOu fuck...you have interrupted my rather tipsy Spain rant!  Was that your intent, sir?

I was saying....

Well, I've never been to Spain...but I kinda like the music.  They say the ladies are insane there...but I really don't remember.  And so, maybe I have Spain all wrong, 'cause if the ladies are insane there...well then...gotcha ;)

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:34 | 3354851 tsx500
tsx500's picture

just curious...can I stand in front of a my pile of 'bitcoins' and touch them ?

Ooohhhhh . . . . . . . . . .

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:51 | 3354915 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

What's worse, according to Mr. Buffett, is that you can't even attempt to fondle them, so there's no way of knowing whether they'd respond.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:54 | 3354935 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

Given that Krugman is against bitcoin, the thing is certain to succeed.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:02 | 3354962 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

Of course Bitcoin is not big in Italy.  Bitcoin is sooo 2012!  Italians are anxiously awaiting the new (and may I say stylishly daring?) two-bit coin to be unveiled in Milan later this year.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:07 | 3354987 Cdad
Cdad's picture

I've been to Italy now, mind you.  And those dogs...they get my bump, to be sure.  Damn straight up decent, all friendly like.  If you put me on a rack somewhere, prolly down in the basement of the fed being stretched, and some voice beyond the light bulb be sayin'g, "Cdad...you can't say here.  You must move to Europe...or die."  I'd be all like, dog, send me to Italy, man.  I ain't got shit here in 'Merica anyway.

Set me up with some pasta, a cheap wine, and a few Italians shootin' shit..........dog.........I'm down with that.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:11 | 3355001 IndicaTive
IndicaTive's picture

'fo shizzle

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:33 | 3355078 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

Gold & Silver will move 50%+ when they do.  That's what the bitcoin price says.  If people are moving into bitcoin, who nobody knows, imagine how stocks of gold and silver must be getting stressed.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:37 | 3355100 Karlus
Karlus's picture

So I get you can use EUR to buy bitcoin. You can sell bitcoin to get USD. What happens when no one wants to trade Bitcoin to EUR?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:58 | 3355203 CH1
CH1's picture

What happens when no one wants to trade Bitcoin to EUR?

Ummm... pay them more?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:11 | 3355248 XenoFrog
Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:19 | 3355288 CH1
CH1's picture

You are a boring troll.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:24 | 3355313 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

That's funny because I think that you bitcoiners trying to take over ZeroHedge are the trolls.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:37 | 3355362 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Bitcoin ETF for the FTMFW.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:41 | 3355384 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Now the Bernanke is going to have to print 3 piles of cash. One to prop the stock market, another to suppress gold and another to screw with Bitcoin.

Ben wonders if you have any bright ideas he can't fuck with?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:24 | 3355563 philipat
philipat's picture

Bitcoin is the only thing that TPTB cannot manipulate (They will shut it down instead). This graph would be Gold if it wasn't manipulated in the paper markets.

Idea for Wall St. - Paper Bitcoin!!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:44 | 3355627 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

If you can't hold it in your hand Bitcoin could turn into Shitcoin just like, SNAP!, that. 

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 00:54 | 3355776 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

When Paypal, Visa, Mastercard and the big banks announce they will not support bitcoin transactions (because of terrorism, organised crime, fraud etc) and converting them back to cash becomes problematic, then the real test will begin - that or the CIA leg of Anon have a hack-a-thon to remove some of the hype about it being secure and safe. Either way, it only has big challanges ahead of itself. The current fad hype is dangerous ground. Only the sub-$10 bitcoin owners can safely be playing this game and they are usually the ones with the mega-phones pumping it up.

When bitcoins survives and powers through some real challanges, then people can start taking it seriously - until then, you might as well "harvest" smurfberries or WoW gold because that's all it is but with encryption (that's only useful if you do a bunch of other precautionary things to keep the privacy in tact).

Stick to gold and silver and digging holes. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

 

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 02:46 | 3355946 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Nonsense.  I've never seen an arb opportunity like BTC in my life! 

Bitcoin actually poses a **MAJOR** threat to all national, inflationary, debt based currencies circulating around the globe.  The danger is that eventually as it gains value along with it's downloads it literally sucks the capital out of the already floundering fiat money grid and causes a systemic collapse of confidence in global currencies.

Gold and silver can be managed to a degree as the criminals own the dollar, the bullion banks, some of the miners and the exchanges.  They do not have this privilige with Bitcoin and it will only take the dullards so long to figure out that Bitcoin is a deflationary tiger that cannot be stopped!

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 03:29 | 3355986 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

Bitcoins haven't passed any tests and they have A LOT to front up too before they should be accepted as anything but a novelty - even novelities can make money in the early stages but that doesn't mean people will still want to pay a $1,000 for your 'rare' beenie baby after the high wears off.

Everything that makes bitcoins desirable is exactly why they'll be tested beyond anything you can imagine from the powers that be.

It just has craze written all over it. People are drunk on hype thinking they are putting a fist down the Rothschilds throats or getting rich quick like they've found a unicorn that shits gold.
Your either buying bitcoins becuase you think you've outsmarted the autocracy or your buying them thinking you'll mulitple your money.
That's dangerous thinking and even worse investing. 

Bitcoins biggest failure will be it's success. It should have stayed secret and private and nothing more than a way to transfer money to yourself, friends or family - but the greed of speculation has pushed in into the spotlight and the mega-phone pumpers are making grand claims of $1,000 - $1,000,000 without any care for what that will bring. It's really just a countdown until it's serverly challanged and brought back to reality.

Don't be holding the bag of bitcoins when that happens. Sell them on the way up and convert them into real money while you still can.

 

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 03:29 | 3355989 troublesum
troublesum's picture

What if bit coin is the one world currency all the conspricy theorist were trying to warn us about?

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 04:06 | 3356014 gold-is-not-dead
gold-is-not-dead's picture

I just have to grab a coffee, this is becoming the best and the biggest thread of BTC related comments in the world. Yeaiaa.... :)

So many negative comments means only one thing, we're nowhere near the mania phase...

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 04:10 | 3356030 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

I've said from the start, as a speculation in a hype phase you can make good money buying/selling bitcoins - that's all good and well and like any fad or craze there will be winners and losers.

What stops me from investing and taking them sersiously is the absolute mania people have and the refusals to think rationaly about them, that is a dangerous sign and makes them something to avoid unless your going to pump and dump them.

If a cryptocurrency does become the future and the montery system is revolutionized, it won't be bitcoins, it'll be the 3rd, 4th, 10th attempt at a cryptocurrency that plugs all the unknown unknowns that brought down the attempts before it.

The mania people have thou is amazing. It's either going to be the best investment ever to have occured on Earth and we're living history right now or it's going to fall into a heap leaving most people bust and be remembered as fondly as Y2K bunkers.

 

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 04:23 | 3356043 gold-is-not-dead
gold-is-not-dead's picture

Have to say that this one above is one of the best FUD comments. So dubious and frightening for BTC. LOLZ

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 04:34 | 3356051 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

Soon you won't be able to mine bitcoins without spending 10's-thousands on high-end gear to generate enough GPU power. You'll have a few big server farmers backed with good money that will pop up and drain all the available coins out of reach of the average person. At that point you will only be able to buy them at exchanges.
Shutting down exchanges for tax loopholes, supporting terrorism, funding organised crime or what ever other excuses they come up with will be easy.
Short of that, a major hacking offensive to simply steal people's coins with no authority supporting people recouping their loses will be the other challange they'll face.

The mania is bound to turn to fear when people realise there's nothing backing them and no one cares they've lost their wealth/investment. You can't have hopium in that enviornment and that's the future of bitcoins, until they've met those challanges, survived and strengthened through them this current boom is nothing buy hype based.

But the maniacs can't see anything but riches as they have out smarted TPTB so i guess there's nothing to worry about.

 

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 04:49 | 3356062 gold-is-not-dead
gold-is-not-dead's picture

Hehe, I know, I have invested several grand in that new equipment.... In fact I'm one of the first 300 hundred users in the world. I don't need exchanges to sell it, for the amounts larger than 1000eur I get a visit from pleasent guys, fully anonimous, no fincen blahblah... They pay good, spot price - 3%... Gold and silver aren't backed by any goverment and yet they prevail due to value they derive from energy and time, same as btc... :) Nice comment I have to say, but still FUD-ish... Many will join this party fashionably late... I have to tell you this, I'm the illuminati and the free masons and the cia all together... Went through several wars on Balkan and don't give a shit for another one...

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 07:47 | 3356193 jayman21
jayman21's picture

Are you a central planner?  Jeez.....the pricing mechanism will clear this problem out and show who and who does not have clothes.  You sound like a hack from the Fed.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 08:13 | 3356285 fonestar
fonestar's picture

my comment is really squishy!  OUCH!

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 09:51 | 3356712 jayman21
jayman21's picture

The bigscreen at home was fine, but wow, on the laptop and squishy.....OUCH ^2

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 11:42 | 3357333 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

The interest in this thread is telling.  I can't imagine TPTB will allow a sovereign, international currency they can't control.  Bitcoin will be shot down one way or another for the threat it poses to the fundamentally flawed system of reserve banking with fiat currencies the Central Banks have vested upon the future of the global economy.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 14:45 | 3358429 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Oh ya?  And how prey tell do you propose they do that without shutting down the ENTIRE internet?

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 19:16 | 3359789 Long_Xau
Long_Xau's picture

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Fri, 03/22/2013 - 10:39 | 3361974 painlord-2k
painlord-2k's picture

The reasons Bitcoin is not a mania are simple:
1) it is not inflatable out of design (21 milliond coin, 11 millions already mined, the next 5 million will be mined int he next 4 years, the 2.5 millions in the four year after them, and so on until 2120)

2) it is uncensorable. No need to ask permission to bank, SWIFT, PayPal, etc.

3) a transaction cost a lot less than a transaction with PayPal, Visa, etc. Some bug sellers implementing it could double their income just cutting away 2,5% costs going to PayPal and give a discount to the buyer.

4) it can be anonymous

5) The bitcoins in a personal software wallet con not be seized by governments. They need the private key. And the private key is uncrackable.

 

The main reason Bitcoin is not a fad is (3). Implementing it reduce costs. Not implementing it keep costs higher thanthe competition.

What Bitcoin need it time to grow larger. As more people enter the ecosystem, the price go up bot if hte just use Bitcoin as a payment system and both if the use Bitcoin as a storage of value.
More the price of a bitcoin go up, greater is the ability of the system to transfer purchasing power from a person to another.
Currently a single transaction of 1.3 million US$ (at Mt.Gox) cause the price to jump up more than 10%.
Now, a single transaction of 1.3 Millions US$ raised the market cap of 10% to 750-800 M  enabling the ecosystem to manage transactions 10% greater.
Other 10 M US$ and the Bitcoin network will have a market cap over 1 billion and will be able to manage transactions of a size ouble than now.
This imply a single transaction of 1.3 Millions will not rock the exchanges so much in a few weeks.

This will enable the big players to not need to convert bitcoin to fiat money to pay their suppliers. They will be able to pay them with bitcoin even for large sums. Then, if a closed loop form, the bitcoin used there will be unavailable to the exchanges and this will push the market price up again.

When some big circuit will (near) exclusively use bitcoin to settle their debit and credits, their request of fiat money will disappear (€,$,£) pushing up the exchange rate of bitcoin and down the exchange rates of fiat.

 

 

 

Fri, 03/22/2013 - 10:42 | 3361991 painlord-2k
painlord-2k's picture

The reasons Bitcoin is not a mania are simple:
1) it is not inflatable out of design (21 milliond coin, 11 millions already mined, the next 5 million will be mined int he next 4 years, the 2.5 millions in the four year after them, and so on until 2120)

2) it is uncensorable. No need to ask permission to bank, SWIFT, PayPal, etc.

3) a transaction cost a lot less than a transaction with PayPal, Visa, etc. Some bug sellers implementing it could double their income just cutting away 2,5% costs going to PayPal and give a discount to the buyer.

4) it can be anonymous

5) The bitcoins in a personal software wallet con not be seized by governments. They need the private key. And the private key is uncrackable.

 

The main reason Bitcoin is not a fad is (3). Implementing it reduce costs. Not implementing it keep costs higher thanthe competition.

What Bitcoin need it time to grow larger. As more people enter the ecosystem, the price go up bot if hte just use Bitcoin as a payment system and both if the use Bitcoin as a storage of value.
More the price of a bitcoin go up, greater is the ability of the system to transfer purchasing power from a person to another.
Currently a single transaction of 1.3 million US$ (at Mt.Gox) cause the price to jump up more than 10%.
Now, a single transaction of 1.3 Millions US$ raised the market cap of 10% to 750-800 M  enabling the ecosystem to manage transactions 10% greater.
Other 10 M US$ and the Bitcoin network will have a market cap over 1 billion and will be able to manage transactions of a size ouble than now.
This imply a single transaction of 1.3 Millions will not rock the exchanges so much in a few weeks.

This will enable the big players to not need to convert bitcoin to fiat money to pay their suppliers. They will be able to pay them with bitcoin even for large sums. Then, if a closed loop form, the bitcoin used there will be unavailable to the exchanges and this will push the market price up again.

When some big circuit will (near) exclusively use bitcoin to settle their debit and credits, their request of fiat money will disappear (€,$,£) pushing up the exchange rate of bitcoin and down the exchange rates of fiat.

 

 

 

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 07:51 | 3356199 jayman21
jayman21's picture

We are watching Gresham's Law become extinct.  Bitcoins just might be the cure for bad currency.

 

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 06:34 | 3356110 PowerzThatB
PowerzThatB's picture

If I own physical gold and silver, how can it be "managed" to a degree? Please do not aruge that Bitcoin is safer than physical gold in my possession (not sure if you were, but physical gold pwns Bitcoin). I'm not pro or con Bitcoin, but this I know: if it starts to pose a threat to Uncle Ben and his Fed cronies, you can be sure they will hack it, attack it and use any means possible to destroy it and burn those holding it. If it survives the coming assault, then it will prove itself durable and a global player. 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:47 | 3355638 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Virtual alchemists will get no further than the chemical ones did.

Gold, bitchez.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 01:17 | 3355827 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Excellent

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 00:23 | 3355717 rich_wicks
rich_wicks's picture

Bitcoin is the only thing that TPTB cannot manipulate

All they need to do is mine coins in Utah and then dump them on the market.

Everybody is hoarding them now.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 00:08 | 3355685 samwell
samwell's picture

a troll is somone who spouts FUD like you do.  If it walks like a troll, talks like a troll, it must be a troll.  tadpole is a troll.  you have never made one cogent remark about bitcoin.  your lack of insight and ignorance is truly profound.  have you had a labotomy or something?  maybe you are on SSRI?  you will probably end up buying bitcoin at $1000 because all of your yuppy inbred friends finally are, but at that point it will be too late.  fuck off

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 03:11 | 3355964 SWIFT 760
SWIFT 760's picture

hey, kikebot...CIA already hijacked bitchcoin. GTFO. 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:21 | 3355296 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

That's freaking hilarious.
Those sheeple who are converting to bitcoin also believe virtual guns will keep them safe.

"You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality"

Sheeple are sheeple.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:55 | 3355654 greenbear
greenbear's picture

Ever heard of 3D printers? 

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 05:22 | 3356073 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Only for use in porn. I heard Bercracky used one to increase his manhood but he fucked up an put it in reverse. He ended up fucking himself in the ass.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 06:39 | 3356114 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Is the 3D printer real or stored on a hard drive? ;-)

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 09:07 | 3356475 digitalhermit
digitalhermit's picture

Don't worry - your investment in copper clad lead is safe.

Folks still need real bullets for their "virtual" guns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ieNQzmBaHs

http://defensedistributed.com/

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 00:02 | 3355674 samwell
samwell's picture

what the fuck are you doing up tadpole.  shouldn't you be in beddy?  its past your bedtime isn't it?  is that your little link to your favorite past time of battletech?  you must be very mad you don't have some bitcoin to sell frog lady huh?  there there, its not too late to realize how stupid you are and how little you understand in the universe because you and your yuppy friends all live in a close, inbred world where you all have to agree about everything.  bitcoins only up 33% in the last 3 days.  

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:28 | 3355571 Haywood Jablowme
Haywood Jablowme's picture

So I get you can use EUR to buy bitcoin. You can sell bitcoin to get USD. What happens when no one wants to trade Bitcoin to EUR?

You use it to buy 1000 rounds of Black Hill 5.56 ammo like I just did.  BOOM BITCHEZ!

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 08:47 | 3356377 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

The same thing that happens when manufacturing companies need to get raw materials from other countries, those bitcoins become useless, thus they won't accept them as payment from wholesalers, who won't accept them from major retailers.

 

In other words, because fiat currency controls international trade, bitcons and PMs have their limitations.

 

The story also exposes a fallacy that even bitcoin itself speaks about. Because of the limited supply, bitcoins is subject to severe deflation.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:44 | 3355144 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

Until the day comes where I can toss a 1 oz gold coin across the country safely into my recipients waiting hands, then bitcoin will be invaluable.

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:30 | 3355576 enloe creek
enloe creek's picture

found a bitcoin laying on the sidewalk but when i went to pick it up the plug came out of the wall and i lost it now what ?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:33 | 3355590 Money Squid
Money Squid's picture

bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaah

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 06:54 | 3356127 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

Fascism FTMFW by the TPTB. Until sheeple wake up, I have no sympathy as to what will happen to sheeple when Bernanke eventually crashes our currency.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:57 | 3355186 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

In italy, by that time it will become vogue and known as the "Bit-ter coin"

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:38 | 3355109 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

On the other hand Al Gore just became a big fan of Bitcoin.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:08 | 3355234 HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

Am I the only one that thinks Bitcoins are stupid? Just wait until the government taxes it or shuts it down due to it not being sanctioned currency.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:12 | 3355522 BeaverFever
BeaverFever's picture

I concur. And I also believe that Max Keiser had a major role in its founding.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 01:07 | 3355808 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

It only costs $5 to dig a Bitcoin out of the ground.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 01:10 | 3355812 akak
akak's picture

And the shit is literally everywhere!

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 04:31 | 3356049 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

L oh fucking L!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:11 | 3355249 CH1
CH1's picture

Don't bunga with people, dude.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:55 | 3355653 samwell
samwell's picture

surely you jest?  al "manbearpig" whore has got to be the biggest control freak on the planet. why would he want to decentralize control and endorse a private cryptographic currency.  the two seem to be mutually exclusive.  maybe he has seen the light....na

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 03:03 | 3355952 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

I think he is cashing out his own made-up currency (carbon credits) for Bitcoins. 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:56 | 3355194 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Your right, if he's against it it must be good. 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:04 | 3355222 kito
kito's picture

fat chance bitcoin succeeds by staying free of bureaucratic blunder..............the gravitational force of the government black hole is already gaining in strength

 

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/us-regulator-bitcoin-exchange...

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:08 | 3355232 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

"If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:40 | 3355380 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

+1

Not a bitcoin fan myself.  I can't, for the life of me, see how it WILL NOT be manipulated by banksters.  They will think of some technique, mark my words.  It's not going unnoticed.

 

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 02:23 | 3355912 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Big deal... name me s/t of value that has NOT been manipulated by the rich/powerful.

I take a totally agnostic and pragmatic view: Manipulated or not, can I make good use of it in scenarios when other forms of currency are not suitable? Can I make money on the way up? Down? How much should I allocate to Bitcoin to meet my needs (real and expected), and meet my risk profile?

Note to self: do extensive homework on Bitcoin! Then share what I know, not what I feel or imagine.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 04:17 | 3356037 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Note to self: do extensive homework on Bitcoin! Then share what I know, not what I feel or imagine.

I've been a computer geek since before eBay was a twinkle in the eyes of a far off hard drive. I have never, ever used eBay. Bit-con rings the same bells.

I make my living actually producing things people need to live. Bit-con is nothing more than a gamble for pumpers who think they can be the next Lloyd Blankcheck on a smaller scale.

Money for nothing and your chicks for free. Go for it Bit-con pumpers... let's see how it turns out for you a year from now. Your Bit-cons could be worth $2,000 but I can tell you for sure you won't be paying me for welding or CNC work with them.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 01:03 | 3355797 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Fonz: Was that a Ronnie Reagan quote? I seem to recall it was always laid at his quote doorstep... and he was shot a year later.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:28 | 3355317 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

yep,

the gravitational force of the government black hole is already gaining in strength

i'll wait and see what happens after the banks naked short sell the btc down to about $7, and then settle in fiat rather than delivering btc.  similar what they do, and will do in the end, with paper gold and silver - no deliveries, settle in cash.  if the btc can survive that type of attack, i'd put my toe in.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:58 | 3355463 CH1
CH1's picture

The ignorance here - and willingness to pontioficate while utterly uninformed - is astonishing.

That percentage of proudly blind are not found in nature. Someone's paying these haters.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:08 | 3355504 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

while you are pointing out our ignorance you may be ignoring your arrogance.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 06:16 | 3356095 YC2
YC2's picture

Seriously, for every 1000 BTC posts telling someone they don't k ow what they are talking about there may be 1 or 2 that are helpful explaining cryptography to the uninformed. I am uninformed at this time but all I learn from the BTC horde is that they know something I dont and can't be bothered to explain.

The superiority thing seems a little off - the burden is completely and undoubtably on BTC supporters to explain what they see as the second coming of Christ, but I tend to feel there is more eye rolling than knowledge sharing. This doesn't say the best things about BTC.

Hell, if it is so complex that it can't be explained in message format, recommend a book that is accessible to a lay audience.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 06:49 | 3356122 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

That's funny.  As if I am somehow responsible for your ignorance, laziness and stupidity.  I'll sell you a fraction of some of my bitcoins for a thousand dollars after you've educated yourself ;-)

The Bitcoin Channel

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 03:06 | 3355955 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

but are they paying them in Bitcoin?

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 18:27 | 3366909 painlord-2k
painlord-2k's picture

How could, anyone, short sell bitcoin?
There is a finite amount of them. And every transfer must be validated by miners.
So, we know exactly how many BTC are in existance and where they are.
You can not short sell something you have not.
You can just naked short sell a promise.

They could short sell BTC, but they must buy them before they short sell them.
The buy them and the price go up, they sell them and the price go down. Good way to short you bank account, for sure.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:58 | 3354953 unrulian
unrulian's picture

If you drop a Bitcoin in the woods and there's nobody there to hear it...does it......wait a second....you can't drop a bitcoin

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:31 | 3355073 wintermute
Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:56 | 3355196 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

The virtual nature of bitcoin also makes it harder for governments to stop transactions in bitcoin.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:41 | 3355381 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Bullshit.  I just opened a BitCoin account (consider it research- I'm not going to argue the point one way or the other without a little first hand experience).  Here's what I've learned so far..... if they kill MtGox.com most BitCoin transactions are kaput.  You can open an account, you can fund it but good fucking luck TRANSACTING anything without an online exchange.  Without the ability to exchange, it's worthless, like any "currency" would be.

From what I can see so far, it CAN be shut down.  It would require a technique similar to how they shut down Napster (or InTrade).  Go after them in the countries where their exchange servers operate.

Mind you, I've been at this for all of 3 days.  So I'm no expert by any stretch, but if any of the BTC fathful (THOSE WITH MORE THAN JUST A THEORETICAL UNDERSTANDING) want to jump in there and refute this, I'm willing to be schooled and run home with my tail between my legs.  I'm just giving you my opinion of how I would kill it, if I was asked how to do so.

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:28 | 3355570 ILoveDebt
ILoveDebt's picture

Well, you're right if you just want to kill the ability to tradei it for other fiat currencies.  But there are other exchanges and they would have to shut them all down at the same time, which would be a logistic pain in the ass, but not impossible.  What it doesn't do, is stop people from trading bitcoins for goods directly using no intermediate fiat. 

A better attack would be to just shut down the servers of the major mining pools.  You could disrupt the network for long enough to shake the faith in the reliability of bitcoin then.  Though it is decentralized and anyone can mine independently, very few people would find it worthwhile as the reward for mining could take months to materialize.  Interest would wain and so would the value quickly sending the whole system into a downward spiral.  About 75% of the BTC mined right now are done by a handful of pools - http://blockchain.info/pools

I'm sure they would pop back up fairly quick, but I'm not sure how many people they would get back, nor if they would keep coming back if they were repeatedly shut down. 

You can pretty much wager wherever the greateast choke point is is where they will pounce if it ever happened. 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:35 | 3355601 Royal Wulff
Royal Wulff's picture

If they attack the miners the bitcoin network would adjust by decreasing the difficulty of mining a block. It can be decreased so low that even home pcs could mine blocks anywhere in the world.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:51 | 3355646 ILoveDebt
ILoveDebt's picture

I'm aware of how it works, but in reality, with ASIC's online that don't need a pool (especially if everyone else quits), the difficulty will still be through the roof.  No normal person with even two high end  video cards will be able to mine effectively by december of this year.  I mentioned they wouldn't be able to shut it down this way, just drive enough people away from it to potentially make it irrelevant again.  It might not work, but I'd probably try it if I were them and were getting desperate. 

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 04:09 | 3356029 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

How precisely, would decreasing the supply of Bitcoins make them less valuable?

Are you one of them Princeton PhD Economists?

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 00:21 | 3355712 samwell
samwell's picture

wrong!  there are about 50 or so major exchanges around the world and new ones are springing up like weeds.  mt gox does handle a majority of the trading, but they won't even be able to shut it down barring they nuke the entirety of japan where there servers are located.  if japan tried to shut them down, they could simply relocate the server to another country such as iceland or Iran, or cyprus where the people are friendly to btc and see its utility.  has our government been able to shutdown wikileaks yet?   i guess if the mt. gox server moved to iran, then we would have to bomb them because they love bitcoin.  in the future, if you support and or use bitcoin you will be branded a terrorist by our lamestream media right?

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 03:15 | 3355967 SWIFT 760
SWIFT 760's picture

wikisrael...get it? 

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 04:03 | 3356021 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

wrong!  there are about 50 or so major exchanges around the world and new ones are springing up like weeds.

wrong!  there are about 50 or so major exchanges (CENTRAL BANKS) around the world and new ones are springing up like weeds...

Fixed it for ya. I'll take FRN's for $400 Alex...

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:12 | 3355524 sideway
sideway's picture

If the threat Bit coin poses to the central banks becomes significant, it will be shut down.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:52 | 3355649 samwell
samwell's picture

can't be shut down.  that would be like shutting down bit torrent.  ever hear of the man shutting that down???  there is also VPN.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 06:25 | 3356105 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

Since you bring up bittorrent, you can read this appellate order about this gentleman who got 20 years because his downloads/uploads were traced.  

http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/unpub/ops/201015682.pdf

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 06:55 | 3356130 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

More FUD from the morons in the peanut gallery.  He was convicted for distributing child pornography.  What does that have to do with bitcoin? 

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 10:41 | 3357002 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

The fucker was tracked through bittorrent.  That is how they found him.  Since someone else compared bitcoin to bittorrent I wanted to show that they have the technology to track it.

His distribution was through bittorrent as well since he wiped his computer clean after downloading.

Is that spelled out enough?

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 02:31 | 3355931 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

So would anything else in your premise. In which case, your point is... what?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:44 | 3355142 killallthefiat
killallthefiat's picture

A bitcoin run?  Have these people not hear of gold like the Argentinians.  Prolly not much Au left in Europe, but a lot of GLD.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:47 | 3355163 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

How is it people still don't get bitcoin even now?  Here let me help:

gold = money

bitcoin = currency

If you want to transfer money (gold) across the world, you use a currency such as bitcoin.  Or you can put the coin in a FedEx box, but that would take a bit longer.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:10 | 3355236 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

But bitcoin is not backed by gold so the relationship is somewhat like the dollar to gold.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 00:12 | 3355692 putaipan
putaipan's picture

re: fed ex box... or ups for that matter, i believe obama adressed that today.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 03:51 | 3356008 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

We "get" bitchcoin the same way We "get" FRN's. Here's a reality slap... you can't buy what I have with BC... period. I don't even use FRN's. You will be left holding all the worthless bags. I've been dong this for over a decade now. Stop thinking with Ben's brain and come over to the the dark side.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:08 | 3355237 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Forget bitcoins, anyone pricing ammo lately? We are approaching $1 per round for ammo in ANY caliber above .22lr.

And .22lr is pretty much completely unavailable at any price.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:32 | 3355338 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

$50 per box of 20 for .308 match - if you can find it.  That is up ~150% in a year.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:43 | 3355389 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

The Fed's mandate of 2% is working well.  Don't go spillin no beans now, Jam.  Move the decimal 2 places...... You meant 1.5%, didn't u?     /s

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:12 | 3355502 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Sure, you're right.  Though copper, copper alloy, and lead when combined in cartridge form have greatly outperformed base and precious metals lately courtesy of a different batch of Feds.  

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 00:56 | 3355785 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Don't shoot Jam... it's me, Angus. I've got my hands full with some Bitcoiner's right now. I may need some back up. Let loose the dogs of war!

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 09:39 | 3356641 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

No worries Angus. My metals are wet and my powder is dry.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 02:53 | 3355948 hmmmstrange
hmmmstrange's picture

Priced in bitcoin, ammo prices have decreased in the last year.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 09:41 | 3356659 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Never tried guarding the perimeter with bitcoins. How does that work exactly?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:21 | 3355554 Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

You can still get .22LR on auction sites (where legal), but be prepared to pay .15 to .25 per round, depending on quality of manufacture (and desperation of bidders). Recently bought a couple 1400-rd Remington .22LR buckets for ~$180 each (retail: $70). 5.56x45/.223 can be had in bulk (1000-ct) for about .78/rd at traditional sales sites, but availability is very spotty.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 02:25 | 3355925 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

Which sites?

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 06:53 | 3356125 PowerzThatB
PowerzThatB's picture

check gunbot.net for ammo and mag pricing.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:16 | 3355274 CH1
CH1's picture

A bitcoin run?  Have these people not hear of gold like the Argentinians.

Are you being ignorant on purpose?  Read about Bitcoin in Argentina - an article from October.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:59 | 3355204 LiquidityandLunacy
LiquidityandLunacy's picture

It makes perfect sense, everyone who is a bitcoin cheerleader here fails to understand that just because the prevailing market in these digital coins keeps rising in fiat value and one can take profits should they wish in other fiat, what we should be paying attention to is why gold and silver are unreactive in comparison to the wild price moves of bitcoin. Get ready folks. The move is gonna be Ralphie B - Massive

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 23:00 | 3355477 CH1
CH1's picture

what we should be paying attention to is why gold and silver are unreactive...

And maybe we can care about both?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:11 | 3355247 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin''s picture

Can you bludgeon a numbskull with a ten ounce bitcoin?

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 01:13 | 3355819 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Yes they actually come in coin format if you so choose.

Fri, 03/22/2013 - 07:39 | 3361292 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

can I stand in front of a my pile of 'bitcoins' and touch them ?

 

Can you touch the women you wank off to on your computer every night? 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:35 | 3354855 akak
akak's picture

+1 for the classic Three Dog Night reference.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:41 | 3354871 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Fuckin' privates in the water army...comment jumpin' with irrelevant shit.  Is Sacrilege ever gonna earn his keep and finish that Hong Kong filter...or what!

I was sayin'...'bout Spain...I hear the food is a tad "greasy."  I don't know...just heard.  If I was one of half of the unemployed youth in Spain, and my dad was all like, "The banks are fine, that was a one off in Cyprus."   I would be like, dad, you tool, buy some f'n bit coins, or maybe some silver rounds, you f'n tourist!  Or maybe just stock the F up on some cheap wine, you sad bitch.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:42 | 3354877 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

The food is very greasy. Tapas has three main ingredients, namely oil salt and garlic.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:48 | 3354903 Cdad
Cdad's picture

As I was sayin'...before you rudely interrupted me [albeit on official like "answer patrol"], I'd be givin' my sorry ass dad shit, night and day, knuckling his apathy, him puttin' faith in the ECB, and maybe even Russian mobsters...in an attempt to convince himself that there was no criminal syndicate of bankers ripping off the entire world.  And now since Cyprus...goin' all full frontal, in your face bitch about it.  Dog...get some respect for yous all...

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:53 | 3354909 Haywood Jablowme
Haywood Jablowme's picture

Bite me...

Apparently Dennis "The Beaker" Kneale still frequents the blogosphere BWAAA HAAAA HAAAAAA

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:20 | 3355147 unununium
unununium's picture

And the jamón.  Oh, the succulent jamón.

I have a stored image of an old hombre sampling some prime jamon iberico de bellota.  The way he tilted his head back and allowed the wafer thin slice to enter his mouth.  Allowing the creamy fat molecules to impart their unique flavor to his senses.

Excuse me.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:00 | 3354963 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

That ain't the way to have fun, son.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKaQzQAlNn4

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:46 | 3355155 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Hoyt Axton,  the great.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:33 | 3354846 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1aoi0s/iam_nassim_taleb_author_of_...

 

TALEB on bitcoin:  "Bitcoin is the beginning of something great: a currency without a government, something necessary and imperative. But I am not familiar with the specific product to assert whether it is the best potential setup. And we need a long time to establish confidence. I only talk from skin-in-the-game. If I had money in bitcoin, I would have reported it. But I don't yet. I am waiting to understand it better, not with my brain, but with my experience..."

 

Google trends in Spain: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=bitcoin&geo=ES&date=today%2012-m&...

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:48 | 3354906 clymer
clymer's picture

Uh oh, here comes 1/2 pint with his "bit coins are the end-all be-all for future monetary freedom.." Why can't you be more like Cdad? Cdad is funny! And he doesn't dis silver. See?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:00 | 3354964 clymer
clymer's picture

O get it :) haha good one

love you, man 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:03 | 3354973 Cdad
Cdad's picture

You know...I own a little silver right now...coins I can click.  It ain't much...mostly just to remind my ass........

But if you were to ask me which group of crazy ass'd mothers I most respect.....it is you silver dudes.  Man......nothin' lites up ZH like a story about JP FU Morgan screwin' with the price of silver.  And we all knows it, 2.  

Yeah, man...put me down as a silver ownin' wanna be fool...............'cause yous gots my respect!

Unlike Sacrilege....who just can't seem to figure out that Hong Kong filter already.  I'll brings it, Tyler.  Me and my boys will comes right down there and blow your mind, dog.  

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:41 | 3355130 myptofvu
myptofvu's picture

BTFBit

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:28 | 3354832 Capitalist
Capitalist's picture

Precious metals are stores of value but Bitcoin is a much better medium of exchange (try taking your precious metals across a border). Both are ways to escape the tyranny of central planning.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:00 | 3354959 Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

You can file your gold bars into little flakes and then swallow them. Go over the border and then poop them out a few days later. If TSA metal detectors go off say that you caught a bullet for your buddy during the Korea War/Vietnam War/Grenada Invasion/Gulf War/Iraq War (adjust for your age group) and accuse them of unpatriotism if they object.

Works even better if you are overweight from munching too much Fatburgers and slurping too much 16 Oz Big Gulps.

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:07 | 3354985 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

There's an easier way to move gold into an airplane, but disclosure in here would obviously defeat the purpose.  Hint:  Check history.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 00:34 | 3355740 Captain Benny
Captain Benny's picture

If you can file your gold down and eat it, you don't own enough gold.  If you can file your silver down and eat it, you'll probably kill off all those good bacteria in your intestines.... but at least your turd will smell fresh :)

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 05:59 | 3356081 Stockmonger
Stockmonger's picture

Shitcoin?

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:02 | 3354969 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"Diamonds are Forever" it is then. Do they even need to have "Debeers" carved in them now?

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 00:50 | 3355774 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

C'mon disabledvet... you should know that serious diamonds are always covered in blood.

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 00:47 | 3355768 overbet
overbet's picture

Many zerohededgers are so gold/silver hardcore they get upset with the mention of any alternative. I think bitcoin goes to $150 within a year easily. I dont see pm producing the same return within a year and the government has never confiscated bitcoins like they have pm. I have pm, bitcoin, cash, booze and other tradeables. I dont what the fuck might happen so I am diversified. I even got some SPY for the haters.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:31 | 3354833 Irelevant
Irelevant's picture

Wtf is bitcoin? How many troy oz? .gov has to pass on simple law and bitcoin is dead.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:35 | 3354854 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

Google "Fincen online currencies".  It's legal.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:34 | 3355089 pods
pods's picture

Everything is legal, unti it isn't.

pods

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:44 | 3355140 Matt
Matt's picture

What a horrible bunch of crap the FinCEN site is. From what I can tell, if you exchange bitcoins for dollars or dollars for bitcoins, in excess of $1000 on any given day, you qualify as a financial institution. based on:

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/pdf/FIN-2013-G001.pdf

http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/definitions/msb.html

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title31/31cf...

I don't understand what the ramifications of being a financial institution are, though.

 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 22:40 | 3355379 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

For one, you qualify for free money from the FED.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:41 | 3354873 Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

Wrong!

Get on the internet and research the shit, before you pop off! I'm not saying its the ONLY thing you should be invested in, but its pretty fucking awesome at attacking the heart of the drakness that is intl. banking cartels and dicatorships!

People are going to use it, esp in EU, where you can jump borders, and the banking rules change overnight!!!

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:43 | 3354879 Irelevant
Irelevant's picture

This electronic currency is issued under Fincen (us treasury) regulation. Yup, I fully trust this. Tomorrow I will sell all my gold and buy Bitcoin.

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:52 | 3354929 tmosley
tmosley's picture

No, sell all your Euros and buy bitcoin.  Then buy gold somewhere else, where it will be in your personal possession. 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 21:00 | 3354957 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

Who takes bitcoins for PM's?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!