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In Spain, The Bitcoin Run Has Started
Something extreme is happening in Europe. Since Sunday, Bloomberg Businessweek reports a trio of Bitcoin apps have soared up Spain's download charts, coinciding with news that cash-strapped Cyprus was planning to raid domestic savings accounts to pay off a $13 billion bailout tab. “This is an entirely predictable and rational outcome for what’s happening in Cyprus,” says ConvergEx's Nick Colas. "If you want to get a good sense of the stress European savers are feeling, just watch Bitcoin prices."
The value of the virtual currency has soared almost 30 percent in the last two days. "One hundred percent of that is due to Cyprus," says Colas. "It means the Europeans are getting involved." As German economist Peter Bofinger warned in an interview with Spiegel Online: "European citizens must now fear for their money."
The same apps download data, however, showed that Italians aren’t ready to abandon commercial banking, remarkable as many Italians still recall that black day in 1992 when they woke up to a levy on their savings accounts to prop up the nation’s teetering finances.
The EUR price for a Bitcoin has jumped from around EUR37 to over EUR50 in the last two days as reality hits... and look at the volume...
Nassim Taleb (On Reddit) - via Mike Krieger (@LibertyBlitz):
"Bitcoin is the beginning of something great: a currency without government, something necessary and imperative."
Chart: Bitcoincharts
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coinabul
"can you trade a bit coin for actual gold" is an interesting thought indeed. Is this in fact true?
Yes you can buy gold, silver, food, fuel, or anything else with bit coin!
I can take dollars i raised from selling my gold tomorrow, buy 100 bit coins for 6600, fly to Australia, get off the fucking plane, go to the Internet sell those bit coins for Aussie dollars, transfer those funds to a cash card, etc and purchase the same amount of gold back, and here's the kicker, no taxes, no fees, no currency exchange bullshit, no government record the shit happened!
And within the borders, more and more people are going to start taking bit coin directly for goods and services, it's happening in Argentina and other LA countries already, where inflation is exploding, and now you can add Southern EU to the mix
Who takes dollars for PM's?
crazy people
"Who takes dollars for PM's?
coin dealers...thank Jebus!
+1
Oh my god, I can't believe how many "otherwise enlightened" ZHers are just completely fucking clueless about what BTC is, how it's "created" and how it's decentralized!
I can only assume, you guys who are so distrustful of this, believe its some gimmick created by big banks and government to trick you out of your PM stockpiles, nothing could be further from the fucking truth!
You love gold and silver, because its a storer of value, can't be "printed" from thin air, cant be taxed, and you can hold it in your hands or home!! Fucking BTC is very similar in concept and reality!! Just do some fucking research on your own and get educated!
For me, Bitcoin fails the durability quality for being good money. But let people use what they want, end the legal tender laws.
What quality does bitcoin have?
I predict bitcoin will triple from here.
Well, for one, divisibility.
bitcoin is currency, not money. The point is to use bitcoin as a vehicle to transfer funds. Yes, some people will invest in bitcoin, but for the vast majority of people I'd recommend simply buying bitcoin in your area with USD, then transferring them to your recipient who then sells the bitcoin for his local currency.
Its more like a rental car, a GoCar, that you hop in for a short while for transfers. Like a wire transfer. If people could invest in "wire transfers" I'm sure they would, but you don't need to in order to use the wire transfer system, just buy and sell them as needed.
True, but give it time.
As a pseudo-anonymous medium of exchange, outside The Matrix, bitcoin has enormous potential. The ideas behind bitcoin are sound. Would be nice to see a bit more implementation stability. However I view the problems bitcoin has had thus far more as growing pains. Give the implementation time to mature.
As a long term store of value? Hmm... my preference continues to be PMs. Confiscation risk be damned.
I believe bitcoin to be a very nice complement to PMs. The motivations behind both PMs and bitcoin are similar. But use the right tool for the right job. Bitcoin advocates are correct - if you wish to transfer wealth across borders bitcoin makes a great deal more sense than PMs.
Is it 100% hackproof? The govt mandates backdoors be built into computers so it can hack.
My question is 'are they EMP' proof?
Also, I've had more flashdrives fucked in the washing machine than I care to think about, plus a couple that crushed from being dropped and/or accidently stepped on.
It's virtual nature makes it harder for States to regulate it.
Bitcoin is fucking stupid.
Im going to dredge up my precious soon.
Ice covered the gps location and now it doesnt.
Bitcoin is good, pms are betterer..the ones you drool on..
Tetchy person downing people?
Zackly..
mhhh looks like bitcoin is going to substitute the need of gold and silver :D
pretty awsome - it has massive potential. even though i think when it gets too hughe, some nazi government could prohibit it ;-(
The total value of all bitcoin is tiny compared to gold and silver. Plus bitcoin is currency, and gold is money. Two very different things. They don't compete, they go hand in hand.
Maybe because I'm twice the age of the median ZHer, but BitCoin is not for me. I own physical gold and silver.
Gold and silver have settled transactions for 1000's of years. Poor folks like me should own gold and silver. If there is a paper currency around that I need, I'll always be able to trade my PMs for it....assuming I can't trade my PMs directly for my daily needs.
@hairball48
I respect that. Personally I think bitcoin and precious metals complement each other, but ultimately it is up to you. If you don't feel that it is an acceptable risk, then there you go.
Both are instruments against financial tyranny.
Back the bitcoin with gold.
.
Bitcoins are backed by gold. They are backed by pretty much everything. The simple fact that you can trade gold for bitcoins means they are indeed backed partially by gold. Right now the majority of bitcoin backing is with fiat but this is shifting more everyday to tangible assets. Originally bitcoins were entirely backed by pizza.
When the music stops, the chairs won't be in front of computers. BCs are not shtf proof imho.
When the SHTF, and you want to send your money to Singapore, how are you going to do that? FedEx? Or with a stateless currency designed for just such a use.
Why the fuck will I want to send my money to Singapore?
Yeah, why Singapore?
Yeah, why Singapore? Exactly. When TSTF you are not going anywhere without what you are carrying. Bitcoin is a bankster distraction proven by that Bitcoin went up on Cyprus news and gold did next to nothing.
JFC this is the exact nonsense I'm baffled by, you know why fucking gold and silver arent fucking going up!!!!! Because these motherfuckers in London and Wall Street and Singapore, have created paper shorts on GLD and silver, they have created naked shorts, and every other false ass manipulated form of BS they can think of! They've created so much BS counterparty confusion around gold and silver, you cant tell what the REAL price of shit is with it! Its by design, its fucking BS, but its been happening for decades now! Fucking BTC doesnt have any counter party BS involved in it, its true market driven so to speak. The price is established by a buyer and seller and NOTHING MORE! Price disvovery as the old capitalist used to call it! With no counter party BS, the price is only what someone else is willing to buy it for or sell it for, period!
Its nice to believe that untill it doesn't. Just remember 5000 years of history
"When the music stops, the chairs won't be in front of computers. BCs are not shtf proof imho."
the music has just stopped in cyprus
will farmers and the aggie traders accept bitcoins in exchange for the services they provide?
Farmers tend to older and more tech wary. They also value what is real, but they may accept it as long as it is readily convertible into fuel and fertilizer.
However they would rather have PMs if they intend to keep some cash on hand for next season.
That would be my bet, FWIW...
BTW I think the idea of bit coin compliments PMs quite well. Keep in mind that it the Market that is driving bit coin not central planners.
I doubt you're THAT old. The sites traffic audience starts positive at 44-54 then really shoots up after that. Not many under 40 at least by those stats.
Anyway, stick to what you know, the people making it work are really into cryptography and build a rig (like a race car computer just to mine bitcoins) or they use other computers they have access to when downtime.
It is worth learning if you have the patience, but at this point it's a labor of love, hobby
Pretty close according to these hacks. Quantcast is pretty shitty but better than anything else free that I know of:
http://www.quantcast.com/zerohedge.com
BTC is not meant to replace gold and silver, it is meant to bypass currency controls. The value of BTC is directly proportional to people's panic over their national financial situation.
Once the dominoes start falling, people will find that there is only one destination worth moving to, and that is PMs, but they will still use BTC to get there, until they can safely do otherwise (probably never again).
People need liquidity based assets to survive, buy food, pay rents etc etc etc. Gold is the last safe haven, but most with families are now trying to figure out what is a tangible and liquid asset to use now.
Humans handle stress pretty well. F*ck government and central banks and lunacy based academia.
I'm with hairball48. I want to feel the weight in my hand.
Shouldn't Gold and Silver have shot up 30% as well? Shows how good CRIMEX is at suppressing prices.
Supply and demand, supposing there is a real cash market for gold and silver. There's apparently a greater supply of pms then bitcoins.
Gold & Silver will move 50%+ when they do. That's what the bitcoin price says. If people are moving into bitcoin, who nobody knows, imagine how stocks of gold and silver must be getting stressed.
This is my sense as well.
Bitcoin is, at the moment, pretty immune to being manipulated (there's really no way to double-spend the same coin, so re-hypothecation, etc is impossible, so only inside-exchange tricks could happen.) As a result it's reflecting real demand, part of which is due to bitcoin's own economy growing, and part is people escaping other economies. The rise of the last couple days reflects the latter, which gold should reflect, but isn't. Given the 10% drop in COMEX inventory in the past six weeks on flat prices, the manipulation of gold is showing some side effects.
Serious question. How does one know if the owners of Bitcoin aren't creating bitcoins from thin air?
They are! Well, electrons that is.
Bitcoins are generated using a cryptographic function that meets criteria set by the bitcoin peer-to-peer network. In order to get a new bitcoin into the network, you have to search through blocks, compute a hash of a hash mathematically, and have that hash fit a prescribed limit on the netwrk (this is known as the difficulty.)
The bitcoin protocol self-regulates new coin production this way, so basically if you could somehow generate a massive load of new coins, the network itself adjusts the difficulty to prevent that from happening. This is occuring right now as new mining technology (ASICs) is deployed.
Once created, every bitcoin in tracked in a three-entry accounting system, so it's impossible to introduce new coins that haven't been mined like the way a bank does fractional reserve lending would do.
Could you explain the mining process? Do I just buy the ASIC bit con miner, turn it on and start mining bit cons?
There are several ways to mine. I would start by saying that the heyday of mining is behind us, and you're better off buying coins now rather than mining, because the payback period on miners is long and getting longer. The few people who have ASIC mining rigs are banking money like crazy right now because they're able to capture a disproportonate part of the network (and hence rewards from mining), but as more come online that self-regulation will dilute their share of the network. I would say if you're not already on an ASIC waitlist right now, buying a mining rig is a waste.
From a mechanical perspective, you buy a mining rig or set up a PC with the right kinds of graphics cards (GPU mining is rapidly becoming pointless, but bear with me), and then give the mining application a few key bits of information, basically usernames and passwords for an account with a mining pool; you set up the account with the pool beforehand, and part of the setup process points to a bitcoina address to send earning to. (You can mine independent of a pool, but your payouts will be totally random and you'll wait months to find a good block. A mining pool combines resources and payouts, so you get a share of whatever is mined in proportion to the computing power you contribute, so you generally have a steady, small stream of mining income in place of random bigger payouts.) Once the software has that information, you basically let it connect to the net and walk away.
Technically the mining process is simply performing a search for a computed hash (techincally a double hash), which is a short number that's dependent on a larger block of data. A small part of the block is indended to be altered, so you change that part, compute hash, see if it's within the difficulty range, and if not, start over. This is of course done by the software/hardware, and it's done hundreds of millions to tens of billions of times per second by each mining rig -- currently the bitcoin network processes about 50 terahashes per second (e.g. 50,000,000,000,000 hashes each and every second, in search for the one "good" block that's found every ten minutes or so.) Once a good block is found, you get a reward of 25 bitcoins. It used to be 50, it gets halved every four years, e.g. the payout gets smaller over time.
Is the mining software written in COBOL and executed via JCL jobstreams ?
-sarc
Firefox translator app couldn't recognize your language.
PM markets aren't true markets anymore with all the bankster manipulation of the paper markets. However, when the shit goes bad, the price of physical PMs will then rise and be out of the control of the banksters. The more the Fed prints the higher PMs will ultimately go to reflect the debasement....that's the redneck hairball view anyway.
I think supply shortage will come before the hyper printing (adding zeroes) There will be a refusal/failure to fill orders at spot and premiums will begin to rise. That will mean that the algos trying to bang down gold or silver will become irrelevant cuz nobody will be selling. Once the price breaks from bankers' set bid/ask, it's off to the races.
Imagine if the brokers holding physical gold told comex and the stock markets to go fuck themselves and only traded gold valued in bitcoin on bitcoin gold exchanges. Bye, bye market manipulators..... Fucking force JPM and GS to use bitcoin if they want to get some skin in the game.
You should thank God they are not.
It is the price suppression by governments that is keeping the price of gold affordable. I for one am very appreciative of their efforts.
Exactly how I felt about people who've been talking down BTC the past 2 years. ;)
and vice verse- my tinfoil hat keeps telling me the recent rise in btc was engineered to keep people out ... it started a couple of days before the cyprus news.
No, the rise in btc was coincident with Cyprus news.
kaiser satoshi indeed ....
http://occupycorporatism.com/bitcoin-cyprus-scheme-how-technocrats-manip...
of course that is my reason for wanting in on them. but i prefer the hard tangible lil' cauccasion ones.
Susanne Posel.
Irrelevant bankster shill and alleged plagiarist:
Susanne “Copy-Paste” Posel’s Plagiarizing Ways ExposedI've posted this before.
Check out for how much 1oz of silver goes on russian ebay:
http://molotok.ru/listing.php/search?sg=0&string=%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B...
Wow!!
great find!
Wall St does not do BTC, there are no derivatives, shorts, insiders etc on BTC. No way they can manipulate that.
The total value of all bitcoin is tiny compared with gold and silver. This makes sense when you understand BTC isn't a store of value, but a vehicle to transfer money. Sort of like a GoCar. You use it then leave it.
If you want appreciation move some gold to bitcoin for a year then back. Trade trader.
the russians and chinese have been shorting gold, because their central banks need more.
assuming the US / EU want to be the leading forces of the world, we will one day wake-up to the mother of all re-valuations in gold. the re-valuation will serve the purpose of re-balancing assets (gold reserves) to equalize liabilities and equity.
it is all that simple.
you still have old bitcoin coins? don't you have bitcoin2 new coins? I can see this happening. This is the future of bitcoin... it's all virtual.. no value... zero.
@daz
With all due respect, I think Taleb becoming interested in this alternative currency experiment suggest otherwise. However, if you don't think it is worth getting into - at least use precious metals. We need as many people as possible not vested in the current sovereign currency farce as possible.
Is the State bank of North Dakota accepting them as legal tender?
People can "Bitcoin" from there computers.
Buying Phyzz Gold & Silver takes effort.
One hack job on Bitcoin will teach [another] lesson to the B'Coiners
Got Phyzz?
Bitcoin in non-cloud wallets can't be "hacked" the way you're suggesting.
I'm very pro physical, but bitcoin offers some features phyzz doesn't. They're complimentary to each other.
Gold is a savings account, bitcoin is a checking account.
Good analogy and like I've said before you never store all your wealth in one currency if you can.
And, your computer ain't gonna do shit when you hve no electricity or telecommunications connections.
Be prepared.
When it comes to that who cares about money anyway? You'll care about gunpowder and lead.
Parabolic price moves + record volumes = bubble territory.
Just look at "bitcoin" in google trends: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=bitcoin
We're about to have another blow off top like in June 2011 followed by a long and painful correction.
(Note: I'm a bitcoin holder since early 2012)
Bubble indeed. So why haven't you sold yet?
It's not an investment, it's an experiment for me. I put in less than 0.001% of my money. The gains are so insignificant, I don't care. They're gonna go higher in the long run, because they're designed to (disinflationary supply growth), but I wouldn't be surprised to see a 50+% crash from the top which we're very close to.
Free roll! Let it ride!
It's in a bubble when BTC is on the CNBC ticker next to the Dow and Cramer pumps it in every show.
The *idea* of BitCoin is nice in that it is a decentralized currency, but the design of the currency, while ingenious, is fundamentaly flawed in that it is inherently deflationary. Assuming they maintain some level of legitimacy, at some point in the future, when Bitoins reach their "mined" peak, the holder of the currency is disincentivized to spend it. Hence, a horrible medium of exchange. Therefore, if you want to buy BitCoin as some sort of store of value, why not just buy gold? This doesn't even mention the fact that govs around the world can shut it down at any moment. Right now, it is just a trading vehicle for gamblers.
At this point it serves a greater purpose, a psychological shield to the Ponzi thrust and parry.
"All your bitcoins are belong to us." - A bankster's unrequited wet dream.
@Cognitive Dissonance
With much respect to your posts and articles - I have to disagree with what you're implying. A "corner" on bitcoin isn't an endeavor they'd end up winning. Edge exchanges are not the end-game here. It is the freedom of the network that is the real value - not a valuation in a given sovereign currency.
As always, if you feel that it is an unacceptable risk, then abstain and stack physical. I still believe that bitcoin and PM's are effective against monetary chicanery.
Actually I was just being a smartass while employing a popular saying here on the Hedge.
<My cup of ego runnith over.> :)
Bitcoin will become the next Megaupload when TPTB/CIA/NSA/FBI decide to make it so. I can see the false flag headlines now "Terrorist networks and drug cartels now using the digital currency Bitcoin to transfer funds." Megaupload users lost their porn and software, the pain of losing your Bitcoins will sting much, much more.
Unless Bitcoin actually IS the CIA. You just can't rule out any possibility nowadays....
spoken like a true ZHer
This place takes you out on a nice date and then mindfucks you in about 27 different ways.
Only if you were born blue pill
Totally paranoid and off base. Bitcoin is a useful tool for their activities also. Bitcoin as technology is lot more mutually beneficial for both sides here than people realize even if motives for using are different.
I've been told that I'm a useful tool.
Sure, every nerd is a CIA employee.
Al i-fucking-invented-the-internet Gore said today he is a fan of bitcoin. This is the only bearish case for it. You can't stop ppl from mining under TOR or in Russia altogether.
At least now we know bitcoin mining doesn't contribute to climate change...
Well.....other than those nasty (kilo) watt-hours of base load coal fired electricity used to run your mining operations. :)
<I gave you a well deserved up arrow for the double barreled humor.>
But the same question has to be asked of Bitcoin as with any other form of currency. If you hold USD's, in the end, your offset is against what the Fed holds which is garbabe (i.e., treasuries, MBS, other CB loans, etc.). If you hold Bitcoins, what is your offset as this currency was in fact simply exchanged for other forms of currency (in this case, primarily the Euro). Hence, Bitcoin is being exchanged with other forms of currency which are essential in the same boat as the USD, (a claim against worthless assets). That is, if you own a Bitcoin, your claim is against the currency being held as remember, all currency is a form of debt with a claim against some type of asset (if any at all). Now if Bitcoin is backed by real assets of value (e.g., PMs, energy, grains, etc.), then I might be more convinced but right now, this looks to be frenzied buying without consideration for what claim will be present against Bitcoin assets.
Reminds me of countless barter systems I've seen created, placed into operations, and ultimately fail over the years as some type of CHIT is created to act as a medium of exchange in replace of the primary currency. In the end, they've all failed for one reason or another as the same basic premise holds. What is the real asset of value backing the new form of currency. Nothing but a promise to exhange the currency for an asset which is basically worthless.
Just not sold on Bitcoin yet as it looks to be setting up a number of people for some ugly falls down the road. But what the heck, ride it up (just like the stock market) but just be sure to get out in time as this could end very badly when TPTB really take notice.
Interesting essay, and could explain why Benny is buying up MBS: because in the end, they are promises on hard assets and could be used to stabilize or outright back a new currency.
It worked in Weimar.
Is there a Bitcoin ETF yet?
no reason to worry. the banksters are working on it. btc etf coming soon. and the naked short selling that goes with it too. just like paper gold/silver. no deliveries of metals or btc. settlements in fiat cash. that should take btc down to about, eh, $7/btc
Seriously, are you trying to be stupid or does it just come naturally? You can make a bet that bitcoin will go down in price, but there's no way to arb that bet. The only way to drive the price of bitcoins down is to sell them. But you can't sell them if you don't have them. So you'd have to buy them to sell them, which is a wash. Get it?
get over yourself. you mean like bb's cannot sell gold they dont have? or like banks cannot start a futures market where they promise to deliver btc at some price and then settle in cash instead of delivering? or like banks cannot start a btc etf fund with no btc in it (read gld w/o the phyzz gold) and then when some sob wants delivery of btc, banksters settle in fiat cash? or you mean banksters would be unable to sell btc derivatives? get it? you're pretty stupid, naive or both if you dont get it.
Hmmmm, in an environment without electricity, like in a simple brownout, storm, etc, aint no power to trade...
Physical is best for me.. obvious not for the person downing peoples opinions..
Whodaknown that electron currencies need electrons to trade..
Trash awayyyy..
Muwahahahahahahahah
US regulator: Bitcoin exchanges must comply with money-laundering laws
Bitcoin miners must also register if they trade in their earnings for dollars.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/us-regulator-bitcoin-exchange...
Ummm, oooops..
Make mine a double..
..
eagle
let me see here...
a currency that requires electricity and computer access..
that has no intrinsic real value like debt coupon dollars...
in an era where the Feds can spy, monitor, seize, and or interrupt via NDAA legislation....
thats been REAL MONEY for -
wait for it.....................................................not 5000 years...
nah, im cool with that shit....
and aint it aint shiny either.........................
I ask again of this "digital currency", if something were to happen to me, do my bitcoins die with me?
"Everything else is credit."
Very good query..
Im sure the IRS will have an answer that wont be favorable for your family..
Just like your online bank account - if you don't share your access details then nobody will be able to access it. At least in the case of bitcoin - I think banks actually remand money to themselves or the state when an account is left dormant long enough.
One could easily setup an email that goes out upon ones death. Including a public/private hash array.
Its getting a little more complicated comparing it to "money" now isn't it? That sounds like a last will & testament to me, something that could be modified, blocked or deleted. I thought the idea was to avoid interactions with third parties or "third devices and networks" in this case.
I'm pretty sure gold & silver will remain exchangable even after an EMP or some other less digitally-deadly event.
Point is, money is not supposed to be complicated, no more than a piece of fruit. Its supposed to be readily recognizable and acceptable in trade for all goods & services.
I know what you guys are trying to do...just don't put all your bits in one basket ;-)
@nmewn
I get it - and I understand your stance. Its really about allocating between both, in my opinion. Gold will withstand a nuclear blast (providing it isn't irradiated of course, rendering it a bit less useful), and bitcoin is designed to be part of the internet age.
Whether you think we'll be in yurts grazing cattle, or we scrape through and still have electric - I maintain that both are a good strategy against what face us.
Diversifying among both options seems like a logical strategy to me.
And thats fine, for you.
I had to chuckle a little bit during all this...at the situation I found myself in. My real wife was trying to have a conversation with me about her IT issues at work...me nodding, not ignoring, engaging her, while at the same time responding here...lol.
nmewn,
One could use a "brain wallet" or mnemonic or some other way of passing one of the addys to the intended recipient. Tattoo a qr code on some private spot. This is childs play.
Methinks btc and Au and Ag all survive an EMP of any likely scale. On the unlikely scale, there really is zero hedge.
No they stay in the system assigned to the hashtag for your digital wallet. That wallet can be stored offline on a hard drive. That is like asking does the porn on your hard drive die with you.
So, I can't just leave it in a shoe box and family & friends will know what it is when they encounter it.
Excellent ;-)
I don't know if you are being facetious or not but you could leave it on a usb drive with a universal symbol for money etched on it. I'm sure they will figure it out real quick in this day and age once they see it.
Private keys are pretty short. You could easily, on a single page, print both the private key to spend what's on the public bitcoin ledger and an explanation for how to do so. This is basically what a "paper wallet" is, and most bitcoin software supports printing paper wallets.
Again, I know what the attempt is. But I think bitcoiner's are playing into anothers hands out of trying to spite the them & the system.
Hey, its your money, you can do whatever you want with it.
With reports that retailers in Cyprus are beginning to refuse debit/credit card transactions, if everyone there had a bitcoin account with some emergency cash in it, the economy in Cyprus wouldn't grind to a halt.
It gives the little guy an alternative if those in power completely frak things up for awhile, and it is safer than stashing gold/cash in one's house. When is the last time you had a thief demand your hashtag and all your usb keys?
I think this is why bitcoin is suddenly so popular in Spain. They might be thinking their politicians are likely to completely frak things up for awhile, and an alternative that the politicians can't control but that can work the same way as a debit card would be handy to have in an emergency.
But yeah, if bitcoin becomes too popular I can see the American Government outlawing it.
.
nmewn--
You'll be dead, and won't be worrying about it. If you don't have someone you can trust with the information beforehand, they probably don't deserve it anyway.
My point is, no one needs instructions when they find "money".
They don't need internet, USB's, power, nothing.
You're assuming people will be able to find your money.
What if it's hidden and you die?
Wow, now physical is starting to sound complicated...
Ok...now I've got the time and attention to respond to all this nonsense.
"What if it's hidden and you die?"
Hidden from those I DON'T want to find it or hidden from those I DO want to find it?
All it takes is "Honey, just get your snorkle/shovel and go to X, Y & Z." She knows where. No probate court, no estate tax, nothing written down or encrypted...and definitely no need for "third parties and/or devices".
Bitcoin is not money. True money does not bring with it encumberances.
Seek (above) does a good job of explaining how it comes to life from the ether. The hay day for bitcoin was in its infancy when one could "mine" bitcoins to be used for trading against real, tangible items, now all you're doing is exchanging euros/dollars/yen (your money) for bitcoins.
Digitizing something that is real.
Bitcoin has encumberances for the same reason ANY on-line transfer system does. It relies on something apart from the bitcoin itself to use it. It has to have devices, commercial or stored power and internet.
You do realize you can do the same thing with Western Union? Millions of Mexicans do it everyday.
And you may or may not know this but the government can shut down the internet along with its borders whenever it damned well pleases. Without internet you will have no hope of accessing your bitcoins, let alone having them accepted as bribes/payment for border guards and guides, to get across that border.
A store of wealth (money in this sense) doesn't need anything to make it so. It just is.
But that's also a counterpoint to your point!
You use BTC when you don't want others to find your "money", or recognize it when they see it. Such as the government.
I think I touched on that.
Its a way around prying eyes. But its a conduit for money, not real money.
What porn?
Bitcoin is a legitimate form of store of wealth just like gold is. Let me explain as we know with gold there are 2 things that drive the price, quantity and labor. Bitcoin is no different, it can't be printed into oblivion thus diluting its value to nothing like fiat, it is in essence a math equation with a finite amount of solutions where each solution is represented as a single bitcoin. Once all the solutions are calculated there can be no more bitcoins put into the system. The calculating of each solution is called mining. The process of mining is the labor in this case it is determined by computing capacity power. That capacity determines the money growth. With that said you can translate all the values between analog aka gold and other physical into digital, the middle men make their money on the conversion with the key caveat no central banker controlling the flow or money creation (anyone can mine and anyone can be a middle man in this system).
Necessity drives new solutions. Will it be long term who knows but supply and demand ultimately prevails. Lack of fiat supply drives demand of bitcoin.
And for the record I don't believe you should store all your wealth in any one currency including gold or bitcoin or anything else. That is just bad planning period. To not recognize that bitcoin provides a real world solution (even if not perfect) to current and progressively worse real world problem is just foolish. Being resourceful is a more important skill than hording gold and guns. Those are finite, resourcefulness is only limited by the individual.
Value will guarantee improvement upon. Back to basics non (at the moment) manipulated economics 101.
"Lack of fiat supply drives demand of bitcoin."
Yer kidding, right?
You made good points, then you blew 'em all up.
Let me clarify lack of fiat supply in the economy (where us little guys reside) drives demand of bitcoin as a solution to it. Just watch Cyprus, I bet they are the biggest reason for the spike in the Euro/Bitcoin exchange rate in the past week. You can add Argentina to that list for driving demand due to lack of fiat supply.
Watch the exchange rates in the coming weeks as the Euro soap opera gets increasingly more chaotic and more capital controls are imposed aka fiat supply contraction.
(URGENT) N. Korea issues air raid alert, orders military to take immediate actions
UH OH.
N. Korea threatens to strike US bases in Okinawa + aircraft carriers. Air raid sirens sounded earlier in NK w/ warning to troops to stand ready. Monitoring...
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths
Spanish Armada II w/ bitcoins?
I was wondering when ZH, mehr fervereht berhtkrayn bwrog, would stop covering Cypriotic bank bullshit and get back to covering bitcoin.
Bitcoin has been hacked previously, and recently, like in last week, had issues with their servers..
https://www.google.com/search?q=bitcoin+outages&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&...
I still had same number of pms Toz, until the Minnow when down...
Ahhhh but Ginger and Maryann are still happy...BTW Mrs Howell needs some Serious botox...just sayn
Your "Toz" are down 40% priced in btc since the last "hack" you reference.
Have you looked at the DOW? anyways, Never a problem...always theres someone or something worth more, faster, stronger, etc..
When an EMP or some other manmade, uh, natural disaster wipes out your beloved bitcoin value, and due to circumstance beyond your control, because it wont be under your control, you wont be able to diversify..
If the internet is shut down for whatever reason, and there have been many many recent instances, who you gonna whine to?
Bitcoin Annonymous? Good luck..
What's a dow?
Similar to a Bitcoin. You take your hard earned money and toss it into a cauldron of worthless paper/digital shit hoping to make money on hope and change. Kinda like buying lottery tickets.
.
Yeah, I know the story. The weather started getting rough, the tiny ship was tossed...
The same thing has happened to just about anyone here who has ever set foot on a boat while carrying metals. They take off on a three-hour tour, but their metals take the Stairway to Gilligan's Island.
Ah, it makes me wonder...
You need to be more specific instead of vague.
First off, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR WALLET, WHICH IS WHY YOU ENCYRPT IT. SAME GOES FOR EXCHANGES, THEY NEED GOOD CYBER SECURITY ON THEIR SERVERS. THE NETWORK ITSELF IS EXTREMELY SAFE FROM ATTACKS, IT'S JUST INDIVIDUAL SECURITY THAT NEEDS AWARENESS NOW. Clear on that? good.
Second, the only big distuburance last week was the Flash Crash. Expect more of them as bugs pop up that need immeadiate attention.
Let's just say it's interesting that all at once there are cries for something (PM's) to hold in your hand, and cries for digital money.
Both look to the aftermath of a failed fiat currency, but neither one acknowledges Control on the way there, let alone after.
So it seems the pretense is outright collapse and all that goes with it, and in that case, betting on digital money might be rather... pretentious.
Just a word on the tangible and "intangible".
Bitcoin and precious metals have more in common than you think.
Gold - Au - has 79 electrons surrounding a nucleus, distributed in six distinct orbits.
Bitcoin is expressed by binary bits on a storage medium of choice. Depending on the type, it varies in number and consists of electrons orbiting nucleii much like gold.
In between the nucleus and the electrons whizzing about - there's a lot of empty space. In fact, most matter is mostly empty space.
Pulling out further, you could even make the statement about how matter is really vibrating strings of energy that is embedded in our dimension.
The distinction here is what I'm trying to drive home. "Solid" and "Real" is not much different than what we use now to encode information. Whether you can see it with the naked eye seems to be the stickler here.
We now return you to your thread in progress...
Ah... so we'll continue skipping down the path that leads to that magical place where "real" doesn't matter anymore...
we'll even re-define "tangible."
The greatest sadness comes from the recognition that this is the path we are on,
and a critical mass that no longer can distinguish between Truth and something that feels more convenient.
@Cabreado
Just an indulgence in what we describe as 'reality'. Again, if you prefer a large aggregation of dense Au atoms, I can't fault you. I just believe that both systems complement each other.
To each his own.
So then, your rebuttal to truth-vs-something-more-convenient is...
"just an indulgence in what we describe as 'reality'."
Who is "we," I wonder?
How far do you think we will go in such a state of make-believe?
@Cabreado
I could link you to some reference material where atomic structure is discussed, but I'm sure you could find it on your own. Saying that atoms are mostly empty space is actually correct. I just find it interesting in the whole debate about whether you can see the atoms or not.