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In Spain, The Bitcoin Run Has Started
Something extreme is happening in Europe. Since Sunday, Bloomberg Businessweek reports a trio of Bitcoin apps have soared up Spain's download charts, coinciding with news that cash-strapped Cyprus was planning to raid domestic savings accounts to pay off a $13 billion bailout tab. “This is an entirely predictable and rational outcome for what’s happening in Cyprus,” says ConvergEx's Nick Colas. "If you want to get a good sense of the stress European savers are feeling, just watch Bitcoin prices."
The value of the virtual currency has soared almost 30 percent in the last two days. "One hundred percent of that is due to Cyprus," says Colas. "It means the Europeans are getting involved." As German economist Peter Bofinger warned in an interview with Spiegel Online: "European citizens must now fear for their money."
The same apps download data, however, showed that Italians aren’t ready to abandon commercial banking, remarkable as many Italians still recall that black day in 1992 when they woke up to a levy on their savings accounts to prop up the nation’s teetering finances.
The EUR price for a Bitcoin has jumped from around EUR37 to over EUR50 in the last two days as reality hits... and look at the volume...
Nassim Taleb (On Reddit) - via Mike Krieger (@LibertyBlitz):
"Bitcoin is the beginning of something great: a currency without government, something necessary and imperative."
Chart: Bitcoincharts
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Real will still matter.
But it will be really unreal.
edit: Like the first time you did acid :)
The way you describe it, it sounds to me like PMs and BCs have nothing in common.
TraderTimm said:
So where exactly on the periodic table does the element Bitcoin fit?
I think you may first want to reexamine your own understanding of the distinction.
Please understand that I'm not voicing a criticism of bitcoinage. I understand the general concept behind it and think it's an interesting idea. I'd like to see how it pans out over a longer timeline before putting any money into it, though.
Am I missing out on the opportunity to get in on the ground floor of something big at cheap, entry level prices? Yep, I sure am. While nobody can be fully prepared for the changes which the future will bring, one should try to anticipate and plan ahead as best as possible. There are things I think might come in handy in the future, good times or bad, which I can still get in exchange for FRNs, and these take priority for me over bitcoins (and sometimes over gold and silver as well).
A few years down the road, bitcoins might be a huge global success with a strong track record. They would be more expensive for me to purchase than they are now. I'm OK with that, because their success would make them worth more to me than they are now. You don't have to buy everything at the bottom in order to invest wisely. Sure, people who bought gold at $700 wish they'd have bought when it was half that, but they're probably feeling pretty good about it now.
I disagree. There will always be a fundamental difference between the virtual and the real. Using a CAD program you could design that one critical drive gear you need to complete your underwater remote-controlled lake bottom gold trawler. However, that design file, even if stored on a waterproof USB stick, isn't going to make your trawler move.
Again, you might want to reexamine the issue. A debit card can certainly be seen and held. Nevertheless, without the supporting technology, infrastructure, and protocols, it's just another common piece of plastic.
Fourthstooge: Absolutely well fucking done! Glad you took the time to explain the Bitcoin issue to those that seem to be mesmerized by Bitcoins.
Cheers!
Will Max Keiser become the next Jamie Dimon?
Tapeworms running rampant....
Bitcoin is truly disruptive, revolutionary technology. Which is exactly why governments will never allow it.
If Bitcoin were widely accepted, why would anyone need a bank account? Why would anyone need a credit card? Why would anyone need PayPal?
I don't have any love for banks, credit card companies, or PayPal. But bankers control the world's governments and they will never allow a rival to take hold.
At one time we had a more-or-less universally accepted currency that was beyond the power of governments to inflate and was very difficult to track. Just like Bitcoin. That currency was gold. And what did the US government do? It forced everyone to hand over their gold in exchange for paper currency and banned ownership of gold for almost four decades. Until most of the people accustomed to using gold currency were dead.
I think Bitcoin is likely to rise in value until the world's governments take decisive steps to crack down on it. Then the value will crash.
If people want to speculate in Bitcoins, fine! Just be sure to take some profits on the way up.
Ok. Bitcoin is based on peer-to-peer technology. Not the easiest thing to shut down. Kinda like playing wack-a-mole.
Sure TBTB can shut down the internet. Then what? Banking and credit card networks won't work either.
How exactly will TPTB shutdown bitcoin when it becomes too popular? And, not that it matters, how will they spin it?
Ask Cyprus how it's working out for them while trying to use the Euro.
Pancho: Bitcoins are created by CPU cycles. Who has the most CPU cycles? Besides, Quantum Computing will destroy Bitcoin and any other CPU cycle generated "currency". Look at the ads. Buy yourself a mega-core Bitcoin "Miner". LOL
Come on. Even with "quantum computing" the network just adjusts the difficulty of mining a block so the desired 1 block/10 minutes is preserved. Meanwhile the quantum computer miner gets rich.
@Trader Tim & Id fight Gandi
hehehe i'm mid 60's so a bit of hyperbole. I worked in cryptography many years ago in the USN. I understand the theory and the utility of BitCoin. And since I also worked in communication, I understand the vulnerabilities of modern communication.
I'm on early SSI and a low paying part time job in a struggling industry here in Montana. When the shit hits the fan, and I am confident it will, I'm virtually certain I will be able to trade my small denomination silver and gold coins...directly for goods and services I can't get with fiat or some other means....OR, I can buy fiat at whatever it's going for at the moment. My real needs and wants are few. My recreation is mostly outdoor, low cost stuff like backpacking, hiking, a lil prospecting when I can. I'm lucky that way.
So while I ccan see the utility of BitCoin for those with large amounts of wealth(or even modest amounts). They can move wealth around and do deals and transactions....until they can't. That risk would worry me, but I'm a libertarian :) You make your own decision based on what's best for you.
@hairball48
I understand what you're saying and I wish you the best. This is certainly not the best of times, and we all worry about how it will turn out.
Appreciate the comments about bitcoin, and I realize what infrastructure it relies upon. I would be hopeful that the entire sum of communications doesn't lapse in our trying times ahead, but of course nobody knows the future.
I assert that both bitcoin and precious metals are a good way to diversify without using financial products run by madmen.
Rothbard:
http://www.mises.org/money/2s3.asp
I'm not stopping anybody from bying bitcoins however. Feel free to do what you want.
Bitcoin is ultimately priced in labor based on the cost of electricity. It takes x amount of electricity based on the computing power to mine a single bitcoin. Electricity is a commodity and also labor at the same time when translated from one system analog to another digital.
Instead of petrodollar now we have electrocoin.
If so, why are Bitcoins rising rapidly in value while electricity has hardly changed?
How much electricity does it take to create one Bitcoin?
Same principle as gold vs dollars. Assume the amount of gold is fixed it values based on dollar supply. Same principle with bitcoin, as dollars/euros etc are exchanged into bitcoin the more dollars/euros etc up the value of the bitcoins accordingly in the exchange rates.
Here is a good starter calculator that takes into account electricity and potential profitability for mining. Problem is it is not really profitable to mine right now since you have to factor in computer costs (aka initial investment), power consumption (watt), electricity rate (what you pay per kilowatt hour) and processing power in MHash/s. The average hashrate for a single video card is only about 311 MHash/s. Some cards are better some are worse. Some companies are also starting roll out stand alone bitcoin miners that can mine at GHash/s rates but those I don't know much about yet.
Anyways here is a good calculator to estimate the profitability potential of mining. Also keep in mind the market works on bid and ask prices if you want to buy or sell coins along with other fees depending upon.
http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/
Thanks for the information!
That calculator says that I can produce 6.22 BTC per day at an electricity cost of $0.36. That would indicate that it is possible to produce Bitcoins at an electricity cost of about 6 cents each. But people are currently paying tens of euros for a single Bitcoin. Doesn't that seem like a disconnect?
When I went to the calculator link, an ad for a bitcoin mining machine for $1299 came up at the top of the page. Given the difference between the production and selling prices of Bitcoins, wouldn't one expect a Bitcoin "gold rush" where lots of people would start mining Bitcoins and reducing their value?
There is a difficulty factor that as I understand it slows the rate of growth according to total amount of computing capacity being applied to the problem. Basically just because you solve the problem doesn't always mean you will get a correct solution the chances of you getting a correct solution represented as a bitcoin is limited to that difficulty factor. I'm still researching out all the details myself but the fact of the matter is this technology provides a real world solution to a current real world problem. That makes it alone at least worth looking at since solutions do have a degree of value. Usage will ultimately quantify that degree.
Correct.
This isn't the place to get advice on BTC mining (not that peple don't have a clue, but rather because new h/w constantly comes out and the level of difficulty is not static)...
Pancho should go to BTC mining sites to get the latest info. "Old" (from 2012 or even early 2013) articles most likely don't apply.
Your math is flawed in some way. You obviously don't have one of the ASIC miners that have recently came out as you don't know much about bitcoin and the only people that have them ordered them early last year. If you had 4 7970 video cards in your computer (highly unlikely), you would be at about 2.6 Gigahashes/s. At that rate, you would produce about 0.26 BTC a day ( - electricity).
To make 6.22 BTC a day, you would need around 60 Gh/s. You would need one of the Avalon Asic miners to do that. Only a few people in the world have one right now.
Alternately, you could have 60 $400 dollar video cards running in a minimum of 15 high end computers pulling down ~ 20,000 Watts an hour. I don't think you want to pay that electric bill though.
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-mine-bitcoins-2013-3?op=1
Labor costs of something useless does not give it value ok. Everytime a bitcoin article appears on ZH half of the comments seem to come from Marxists. Or at least people who don't understand money/economy.
Explain how useless electricity is since you couldn't have posted that comment without it..
you'll spend more on electricity mining bitcoins than you'll make from it.
but knock yourself out, sparky.
Okay smartass how about if I run my computer farm off solar cells (that the initial costs have already been recouped). I can drop my kWh cost significantly. Obviously doesn't apply to everyone but never say can't.
those are some pretty far-flung contingencies. i'd say that renders you the perfect salesman for teh btc.
I don't know about salesman but I do strongly believe it provides a REAL solution to a current REAL WORLD problem. That alone has value and is worth at least looking at. It is apparent a good majority of people don't look at things here from a problem/solution perspective. There is also a hell of a lot of intellectual and dollar capital already invested in bitcoin. There has to be a high R.O.I. if this much time and money has already been thrown at the technology and digital infrastructure so far.
Very astute posts, DCH, I've learned a thing or two from your comments
+1
Ha Ha Ha... I'd like to see the invoices for that solar farm! No fucking way you save money. Recoup my ass. I can walk a year supply of propane up the Rocky Mountains to my hideaway before solar bullshit even crosses into the realm of fantasy. You've never had to really, truly, survive off -grid, have you?
Provide a proof or reference about the negative cash flow from BTC mining at current prices or otherwise stop trolling.
True that. Technically, I do have to *labor* to get this semen out of my body, and the daily supply is limited (depending on my zinc intake), so can I bottle it up and call it money? Quick, sombody create that exhange!
Agree. I wouldn't buy bitcoins in a thousand years. We've been talking for long here about collateral. Among other (non less important) things, what in the hell backs up bitcoins? Are we insane?
So a cyber currency is just cyberfiat?
Can I claim that coin term before "tyler" co-opts it?
You seriously need us to answer that?
No, a cyber currency is not necessarily a cyber-fiat.
(Had to pause a bit to junk you).
Someone already explained, but since you're trolling: Bitcoin (a cyber currency) is not a fiat since you don't have to accept it and can't force anyone else to accept it.
>Can I claim that coin term before "tyler" co-opts it?
As far as I am concerned, by all means! The term is worthless and I'd love you to incur some un-recoverable expenses.
Hey Tyler, check this out, New Zealand might be doing a Cyprus soon:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1303/S00306/national-planning-cyprus-st...
Shit looks like it's going to hit the fan WorldWide.
I'm sorry but tax payers should not be on the hook for bad banks and their idiot depositors, all this regulation will do is tell banks that share holders and bond holders take losses before depositors do.
New Zealand doesn't even have Gov deposit insurance, they did for a short period between 2008 to 2012.
You should probably email him, I think the tylers are way too busy to check all of the comments
When the grid collapses (pick the reason) or the hackers hit the accounts where does the bitcoins go?
Sorry, I just don't trust "digital" currency any farther than I can throw it...
BitCoin = New Pet Rock, only inflation adjusted
When the grid collapses and an armed gang of criminals robs your gold, what do you do?
Shoot em with my "assult rifle"
Dum Bitches.........
Check out the contraction of the BBs on the $silver chart.......yeah yeah I know charts mean nuthin...............
I'm doubting that metals will be riding down the lower BB anytime soon!
umbettinup
And the FED, the ECB, and government spooks no doubt have people working to bring Bitcoin down.
I'm all for alternatives to Central Banks and their fiat; I just hope this is one that won't be killed.
Best of luck out there: Bitcoin, Silver, Gold, Cash, Guns, Ammo, Land, Food, Tobacco, Alcohol - anything out of their reach.
BitCoin =cyberFiat Take it off your list and you have something
If Bitcoin is outside of the purview of Banks and Central Bankers (Governments) then it isn't fiat.
If taxed or controlled by banks or governments it will become fiat.
I've had numerous debates about the dangers of Bitcoin.
It's not for me, but if it defeats TPTB I support it.
To each their own; diversify your non-fiat!
"IF"
That says it all
do any governments or government officials you know claim the right to shut down the interwebz on their whim?
IF not, you are right!
WB7 doesn't take Bitcoin for his art. I should know... I've got his art. Go ahead, ask him. See if he goes for it.
Do you realize that you're using the same old "fiatista" argument against gold?
@ebworthen
Well, if at least three of those make it - and alcohol better be one of them, then I think we'll be okay.
Agreed.
I can assure you I am no government spook (I'm probably on quite a few of their lists for having campaigned for Ron Paul and other liberty candidates, among other heresies), and I don't trust Bitcoin at all - it looks like just another fiat currency to me. It can be cryptographically engineered all you like, but crypto is not unbreakable.
If you can't physically put your hands on it, it is not wealth.
Nothing will shut down the internet quicker than a massive flight from fiat to bitcoin or any digital currency. If you think TPTB don't have rounds in the chambers, I have a bridge between Manhattan and Brooklyn to sell you.
So sorry I can only up your post once!
> Nothing will shut down the internet quicker than a massive flight from fiat to bitcoin or any digital currency.
TPTB would also be fucked without the internet. The genie's out of the bottle anyway. They can't do a whole lot except twist in the wind while the Bitcoin singularity eats their rotting carcasses whole.
Another moron. What is it about BTC news that attract moronic comments like this?
If BTC can be used to shutdown the Internet, then that's the cheapest weapon there is and some government would have already acquired all BTC in circulation.
If someone shuts down the Internet that would be great for gold and silver (how much would GLD ETF be worth then? LOL! Or GOOG and APL, for that matter).
Maybe I'll buy some BTC today to help cause the fallout.
People are making good points here and the only thing you can do is call them names.
Bitcons are not money and they never will be.
Bitcoins are money in the same way that sea shells are money. Different times...
The ultimate questiion is... would you accept Bitcoins for your labor? If not, it's worthless.
Here we go again. Where are YOUR arguments?
In the very comment you replied to (also elsewhere in comments to this article, since few bother to read and instead prefer to troll) I argued (yes, those are arguments!) why the price of shutting down the Internet is thousands of times higher than the cost of simply buying them all off and destroying them!
Tell me how to shut down "the Internet" without causing total collapse of the world economy?
Bitcoins are not money? In fact BTC is a currency. But if you insist, Bitcoins are as much money as the Euro is. You can go to MtGox today and exchange them for USD. See? EURUSD, BTCUSD.
Did anyone (or at least I) anywhere say that Bitcoin equals precious metals? No. In fact in other comments I specifically denied that.
What a day, I'm wasting my time dealing with trolls...
Yo "Another moron."
Bitcoins will not "be used to shutdown the Internet". Explosives will be used, and the flight from fiat could be the main reason for a meatspace cyber war.
I would love to see alternative currencies like bitcoin succeed, but,
I do not underestimate the enemies of liberty, peace, and open markets.
Do you?
Do you want to buy a big bridge I have for sale?
Someone will reverse engineer bitcoins and create A WHOLE lot of them. I work in the computer industry and I don't trust them. I buy silver.
You seem so sure of that. Explain to us how the math behind it works and why it can be done or else you are talking out your ass. Not saying it isn't possible but possible and probable are not the same thing.
You sound like a disinformation troll using the technique of claiming authority on a subject then using a popular talking point aimed at the specific audience to add false credibility to a claim backed by nothing but your word.
http://thehackernews.com/2012/05/bitcoin-hacked-more-than-18000-bitcoins...
http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/09/05/top-us-bitcoin-exchange-hacked-...
http://www.pcworld.com/article/230377/worlds_first_virtual_heist_bitcoin...
I'm a system engineer for a software development company and I don't trust anything totally electronic. Yes I get paid through direct deposit and have a bank account and use my debit card and hardly actually touch cash. But at the same time I do buy silver so I do have some monetary value that is real and I can touch it.
http://www.neurope.eu/article/cyprus-legalised-robbery-say-italian-meps
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/diamonds-are-forever--but...
http://praguemonitor.com/2013/03/19/t%C3%BDden-czechs-commit-high-number...
How's my choice of examples worse than yours? How much will have been solen in Cyprus by end of this month? How much do they steal from you every second due to inflation?
Obviously you don't understand that your fiat savings are also electronic (cash isn't, it's "only" their debt) but we're talking about virtual money).
Take a break from commenting and go learn about money.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Bitcoin is open source software, and regulated by the free market participants.
It needs no "reverse engineering". You can't just "create a whole bunch of them".
And I don't give a fuck what industry you work in. Your appeal to authority has failed miserably.
Your blatant lack of understanding of the nature of bitcoin proves you're incompetent and lying.
:-)
+1000
That must apply to everyone that is forced to use fiat paper in any denomination for the past 100 years.
I buy silver too. And bitcoins. What decent trader ever put all his eggs in one basket?
Perhaps you should leave your industry then. I'll try my version:
Someone is going to nano engineer gold and create a whole lot of it. I work in the metals industry and I don't trust them. I buy bitcoin.
You are a trolling moron who's never read anything about how BTC works.
Unless you can provide some arguments, fuck off.
I'm actually surprised you stumbled across silver, since it's pretty obvious you don't understand it as well (since you think it somehow competes with BTC).
Where's Robotrader...or his Mom?
My dogs are banging them in a foursome!
Could it be possible that Bitcoin was created by the banking cartels knowing that when they start to bring down the current system people will look for alternatives...? Just asking, and what's will all the questionable information regarding the creation of Bitcoin and the Japanese guy?
It has been said already but Bitcoin seems to serve as an online transfer method but I would never go all in.
LOL, what a bunch of crap!
It's not a bunch of crap.
IMO, the government is fully behind bitcoin. If they weren't, TPTB would've already shut it down. Why would they allow some crypto-currency competing with the USD?. They WANT sheeple in a digital currency so they can control, track and tax it.
Got to think critically about these things.
I did think critically.
Isn't it funny how:
1) Crash Override didn't provide any fucking argument for his crazy conspiracy theory, and
2) He provided factually incorrect information (i.e. he's no clue!) about the creator
Yet, noone challenges him. The ignorant upvoting an ignoramus!
OK, now:
1) Why TPTB don't shut it down?
Gee, do you think noone has thought of that before? It's an FAQ for Christ's sake!
Because it's relatively secure, at this point it's insignificant and if you tried to attack it using brute force, it'd be more lucrative to use that money to mine Bitcoin. Ah, and also, they could have simply mine and destroy BTC as it comes into existence. There's
2) Why would they want some cryptocurrency to compete with the USD?
Of course they don't, and it's not really competing, it's insignificant at this point (if you looked at BTC charts like volume, etc. you would have known). They'll act if it becomes more dangerous. And (see other comments) in the US they just banned BTC exchanges. More to come, of course.
3) They want sheeple in a digital currency so that they can control, track and tax it
But they canot control Bitcoin. A Spaniard can pay a Spaniard (or a Cypriot, or any other person) in Bitcoin today by moving Bitcoins from his BTC wallet (located anywhere in the world) to the other guy's BTC wallet (located anywhere in the world) anonymously and at insignificant cost. In the case where a Cypriot gets paid, he can spend the money in Cyprus without anyone having the slightest clue that he has BTC.
Think critically and let me know how is that controllable.
why don't they just buy silver?
What a question....
Why don't they buy CHF?
There are people who don't want to haul a pound of silver in their pocket at all times.
It's funny, I recently had to order $200K of a silver for work and was waiting to see what kind of locked down container it came in.
Two weeks later, an 18"x12"x8" wooden box showed up nailed to a pallet with absolutely no mention of what was in it accept a "199.6#" written in sharpie on the top of it. Twelve wood screws later and there set a visually underwhelming box of silver worth $200,000.
I was only thinking of it because your statement made me remember thinking I wouldn't have minded more than a pound or so of silver in my pocket in that isntance. It seemed such a little volume at the time.
Not really worth it if you're not going to take the whole box though. If you're going to go to jail, might as well make it for something worthwhile.
Nice story.
I don't know if your last paragraph refers to Bitcoin or silver. Right now you can't go to jail for paying with Bitcoin, so it shouldn't be about BTC.
Why would I want to roam the street of Madrid unarmed (as Europeans are) with pockets full of silver coins when I can have a cheap mobile phone that may (or may not) have some password-protected BTC in it? What change am I supposed to take from people who sell me stuff for silver if they have no money?
Trolls (not you, but see the post by I replied to above) dispense worthless Bitcoin-related advice without having the slightest clue about Bitcoin, the Internet and money in general. Well, everyone's entitled to his opinion.
I mean I can see BITCoins over Euros........................one mans trash is another mans treasure and all.......
"Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained?"- Gladiator
I know I am, when I watch the exchange between Early Adopters and Later Adopters. The two are not speaking with each other, but talking past each other. Both have a "failure to communicate" because their worldviews don't match.
Thank You to those who provide new insight for those of use who more open to learning than some.
The government has its tentacles around it ( virtual currency) already so the Fed knew this day was coming. Via the Federal Crimes Enforcement Network (“FinCEN”)
http://www.schwartzandballen.com/Memos%202013/FinCEN%20Virtual%20Currenc...
Actually that FinCEN report clarifies something important.
A person that creates units of this convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods and services is a user of the convertible virtual currency and not subject to regulation as a money transmitter. By contrast, a person that creates units of convertible virtual currency and sells those units to another person for real currency or its equivalent is engaged in transmission to another location and is a money transmitter. In addition, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts such de – centralized convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency.
http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/pdf/FIN-2013-G001.pdf
And as far as I know the exchanges legal ones anyways collect a fee on transactions aka a tax. They wouldn't be allowed to be used as an investment vehicle either unless the legal issues were worked out ahead of time.
http://libertycrier.com/finance/first-bitcoin-hedge-fund-launches-from-m...
First Bitcoin Hedge Fund Launches From MaltaEver since the bitcoin cryptocurrency first launched and achieved initial success, institutional investors and hedge fund managers have secretly sought a regulated investment vehicle for bitcoin placements. Malta-based Exante Ltd. has the solution with their new Bitcoin Fund.
There is another one I read about, see if I can find the article about another major investment vehicle being set up inside the U.S. to invest in bitcoin, I believe $500,000 has been thrown into the venture so far.
Also the FinCEN document is strong proof that the governments are not going to shut down bitcoin or the internet. There are bigger things at play here than people see. If you wanted to get rid of a bankrupt central banking system that has debased the currency to nothing you need a transitional monetary system and bitcoin serves that purpose. it is not like cryptocurrency just popped out of the ether overnight. This has been around for many years now. Only now due to current events is it becoming more mainstream and less fringe due to real world problems.
As this goes more mainstream rules and regulations (like them or not) will pop up to try to ensure the governments get their cut on the transactions nothing more.
Anyone interested in free bitcoin (small amounts) can check out my blog. You wont get rich quick but it is technically free money.
Hahahaha,
Tyler, not just ridiculously late to the party, but laughably late.
The Bitcoin Channel
It is very early.
Absolutely. I've said this is the beginning. How far it goes is anyone's guess but something has to change in the monetary system or else we are all ultimately cooked under the current scheme.
Obama to shift the drone program to the Pentagon...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/03/19/exclusive-no-more-drone...
If it's too hot in the kitchen....
You know war crimes and all...
"BitCoins" have far more alternative uses than PMs, so I'd say they are a good investment!
Carry on Pet Rockers
BTC is not an investment, but thankfully noone has been so stupid (except you, of course) to actually claim that.
Take a break from commenting, go read about money and come back once you understand the basics.
Know what a piece of Crystalized BitCoin looks like?
Well, two of the forms that I have seen myself look like Au and Ag....
bitcoin shitcoin.........................shows how fuckin desperate the system really is
you must not be a chemist.
it meant metaphorically
(and yes it was my major.... A looong time ago)
Quick pop quiz, What element is named like a metal but isn't and why?
Fiat... it pretends to be metal but it's not.
Helium.
But I don't know why.
(Horrors, and I am even a chemist too!)
EDIT: Maybe because it was discovered spectroscopically, in the Sun, and it was not known to NOT be a metal?
AkAk
Love your posts btw. Yes it was because of Spectroscopically. They saw it in the Sun, but had never seen the element on earth(No wells in Texas yet I guess) but they thought it was a Metal.
Helium. Sun Metal....
Is there a better, more secure buy out there for AG than Merit Financial?
This way to the egress!
Reverse progress?
http://www.ptbarnum.org/egress.html
Bitcoin...
Again, remember that the underlying understanding is that everything's good as long as you have electricty and a system connection of some type....
you mean like the web????
BRILLIANT!
1) Sorry, but your "brilliant" point is irrelevant.
The moment the Web goes down and stays down, you'll also lose your savings, retirement fund money, stocks, job, etc.
2) After the Web is back, BTC will be one of services that will recover because it's decentralized (and thank god, no government "help" will be needed).
All owners who do not discard their wallets will most likely suffer no damage.
Your other virtual wealth will take weeks to recover, and once it does, it will be decimated.
---
Nice try, troll.
How many times of the above situation happening would it take for the lustre to dull?
http://oahutrading.blogspot.com/2013/03/contempt-of-first-amendment.html
QE said and done all your fiat inflates to beyond the sun
But no more because now there’s a better one
And its properties perform better than all the rest of them
Its mathematical no more double spends its encryptable
Put your cash in your brain, or its wearable
A new form of wealth begins
And I want you to know, ‘toshi’
Toshi got this program penned to solve the problem of double spends
Proof of work with all that hash making us some digital cash
Miners stack to save our spends share their answers with all their friends
Silicon brains write chains of blocks while Keynes can’t refrain from throwing rocks
So all you fools shorting ‘toshi bugs and statists with your glasses rosey when the world finds out we can’t inflate
You’ll join this party fashionably late
Kryptina
http://www.thebitcoinchannel.com/archives/71
obama whips the bird to a reporter
http://oahutrading.blogspot.com/2013/03/contempt-of-first-amendment.html
I’m sure this is old news for many. My favorite alphabet soup agency made this extraordinary exposé…
FIN-2013-G001 |Issued: March 18, 2013
Subject: Application of FinCEN's Regulations to Persons Administering, Exchanging, or Using Virtual Currencies
FinCEN retorts: Stop pissing in our punchbowl about going after these money laundering US government handlers. We just don’t have the budget because of your sequester decision.
/Hahahaa
Like we said Tyler, welcome:
So all you fools shorting ‘toshi bugs and statists with your glasses rosey when the world finds out we can’t inflate
You’ll join this party fashionably late
just who the in fuck is 'we'?
The window too control has accelerated beyond belief. The two parties are at a forked road. In the end, both parties will lose.. Let the cat fight commence.
BITCOINS BITCHEZZZ.....
And...here's how to turn them into GOLD, BITCHEZZZZ...
Buy Bitcoins when governments seize bank accounts. Hold them for a week. Sell them for 30% profit. Take the profit in USD and go to the coin shop.
like an old persian antique dealer in kyoto once told me...."buy 5, sell 3, keep 2". those two you hold, when it's adopted by the BIS will be worth a dollar a 'satoshi'. so yeah, the next time it does.... i.e. hits silver parity,again-
btfbcd beeeeeyaaaaatchhhhhhesssz!
Question # 37 From the Latest CFA Exam:
Bitcoin is to gold as:
1) Mormonism is to Islam
2) Honey Boo Boo is to Snooki
3) Amy Winehouse is to Billie Holiday
4) "Epic" is to "Amazing"
5) All of the above
Groucho's 5th brother once said, "I fear belonging to any faith that would accept me as a believer (but I'll genuflect with anybody)".
3
Bitcoins will be at $100 soon. The single greatest motivator in all of human nature - greed - will fuel its adoption and continued price rise after $100.
TPTB are fucked ten ways from Sunday. I wish you good people would realize it and act accordingly.
Im buying tulips, can only go up, you must be a fool not to jump in now.
How odd. With each passing day, I can buy more tulips with bitcoins than you can with fiat and silver.
Hmmm...let's see. Pretend virtual currency, fiat currency or silver. Tough choice.
The comment I've been waiting for: a "PM bug" who recommends SLV (the ETF) over BTC.
Enough said.
How come bitcoiners steer clear of this issue
"There is a Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) filing requirement for financial accounts in a foreign country when the aggregate value of the accounts exceeded $10,000 at any time during the calendar year. There is the likelihood that this requirement applies to bitcoins or USD funds held in non-US bitcoin exchanges or wallet services. An additional topic that may have a connection to Bitcoin is the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) filing requirement in the U.S."
First I've heard of it applying to bitcoin actually. Fact of the matter is if they included it means they've already accepted it as a legitimate currency and exchange medium like paypal without bank accounts sitting behind it. Also means they have no intentions of shutting it down which also means fuck you Bernanke.
At this point all the need to go after is those that are the ones translating the digital into analog aka dollars/gold etc and grab their cut of the take on the conversion process. Like it or not we are looking at a transition here to at a minimum a new way of doing commerce transactions over the internet. They ain't and can't shut the network down if enough people use it as a currency and enough online retailers accept it as a form of payment.
I guess you're slightly behind the curve on this as in the US they already made BTC exchanges illegal.
They don't steer clear. Heck, the largest bitcoin exchange, Mt. Gox, pretty much handed their entire US client list off to a startup in California to avoid dealing with US regulator compliance, and was very public about the change, since they had to drop the majority of the client base.
The key here is that it involved non-US exchanges or wallet services. If you run your wallet locally in the US, there's no legal requirement (nor any way to reliably connect your identity to a public address.) Likewise if you use a US based exchange, though they will be up in your stuff via "know your customer." However, once you have bitcoin, you can spend them without any current regulatory issues (and even if subsequent legislation is passed, again, there's no way to connect you to an account.)
educate me a little on the bitcoin thingy - do I not understand correctly
"Data is permanently recorded in the Bitcoin network through files called blocks. A block is a record of some or all of the most recent Bitcoin transactions that have not yet been recorded in any prior blocks. They could be thought of like the individual pages of a city recorder's recordbook (where changes to title to real estate are recorded) or a stock transaction ledger. In all but a few exceptional cases, new blocks are added to the end of the record (known in Bitcoin as the block chain), and once written, are never changed or removed. Each block memorializes what took place immediately before it was created."
Since transactions are permanently recorded how is there "...no wy to connect you to an account."? What am I missing here?
An account is just a string of hex digits. As long as you have never associated yourself publicly with that string, it is anonymous.
Petraeus' girlfriend created an "anonomous" email account which she only accessed when traveling, never from her home. CIA simply matched the locations the emails were sent from to lists of people at/near the locations the emails orriginated from and the common name was Paula Broadwell. Simple, fast. All electronic datat is collected, processed, compressed and stored. How are you going to remain anonomous if you use an electronic device? The locations, travel dates/times, routes, speed, networking, phone calls, internet searches, emails, posts, the amount of time your mouse spends on a location on the computer screen, the order and frequency in which you move your mose, how you type on your keyboard, your voice, and vocabulary ...everything is either already known from data already collected or in the process of being collected. Surprise !
She opened her gmail from within the anonymous browser and after that simple act the game was up. If she'd used the anonymous email account, they wouldn't have caught.
> Since transactions are permanently recorded how is there "...no wy to connect you to an account."? What am I missing here?
Here's what a typical Bitcoin transaction looks like:
http://blockchain.info/tx/07d5c12f089bb78c34070c67180d75ea912f10b4cff6dc...
It's like a bunch of old school numbered Swiss bank accounts talking to each other. If you practice a little care by using a VPN and never buying your coins through a place like Coinbase, MtGox or any other exchange that also has your bank records, you can remain as anonymous as you'd like to be.
What this transaction is doing: On the left, the address/account starting with 18Sziu has 23 bitcoins in it. 5 bitcoins were sent to the top address on the right starting with 1BWVHn. The bottom right address, 1RQ5DrT, was created automatically by the software and the "change" of 18 bitcoins were sent to it to be used by the coins' owner in the future.
Even if your coins are being "tracked", they'll still have a hard time knowing exactly who is the owner of the coins from transaction to transaction. It's not impossible to discern who owns some coins during some transactions but any user of the network that devotes even a little time to security will benefit from greater obsfuscation on the network.
You're missing just one part of the puzzle: public key encryption.
You can generate a near-infinite number of public keys from your private key. The blockchain stores transactions to public keys.
Think of it as a numbered swiss bank account, when those still existed. The block chain just says X address has Y bitcoins, but has zero information on who owns X. To spend the coins, you create a new public transaction using your private key, which the network will validate as legitimate, since only your private key could come up with a valid transaction to spend those coins.
Technically bitcoin in pseudonymous, since one could technically look for the network IP address of the original "spend," but anonymity tools plus the fact that the blockchain gets duplicated peer-to-peer makes even this anonymous if you so desire.
"Think of it as a numbered swiss bank account, when those still existed."
Excellent example. What happened to those? What about the secret numbered accounts. Were they not all rage, but really governments had access to the data all along.
They were vunerable due to the centralization. What if those numbered swiss accounts could be accessed in any jurisdiction, online, anywhere, with still no identification? Intervention with one, or even many, banks and jurisdictions would not result in disclosure of who had the account, nor prevent the money from being deposited or spent. That's about where bitcoin is at today.
there is a back door into every computer, significant program, and network. How are you going to be "hiding" your ID when using an electronic device to access a network reveals your location, time, what you are doing, speed, direction, and who/what you are communicating with?
I gotta interject here... You guys realize that any and ALL eclectronic financial transactions are logged and kept?? Have been for years. Start planning for your furture Cyprus moment. If you don't hold it in your hand, you're playing wank-air guitar.
Right or you could park next to an open network and use their public ip and then drive off.
Zerohedge: Where public key encryption is downvoted.
Did Something Awful move over to ZH?
Why are you people so vulgar ? Is it possible to have an actual discussion of the issues here or must there be useless bulls**t ?
This site may in fact be viewed by the people who can actually make a difference, or at least, their first officers read it; but you all have to really help
rather than vent and write cute stuff. And like get over it, you're not comedy writers, but serious people who read a serious website so ACT LIKE IT !
suck it loser.
FUCK... ASS... oh fuck it, my Boondock Saint tourette's is acting up again. FUCK... ASS
Seriousness quite often demands vulgarity.
"When it becomes serious, you have to swear." - some fuckface
oh, so sorry we offended your delicate sensitivities my lord. libtard!
Come now, venting and vulgarity are the only valid responses to things anymore. I can't even drive to work without at least 30 seconds of frothing at the mouth listening to the radio. So, I'm afraid you are out of step with things. Get with the progarm man.
Yelling at the salesmen on JesusRadio while driving the 40ish miles home from work (12 hr night shift) yesterday morning kept me awake enough that it may have actually saved my life.
Do senior tranches of securitized, sand-covered cat turds count as vulgar?
+1000 + a comp screen wipe down!......
Most of the people that have any real power are pretty vulgar to begin with, so I suggest you suck it up and deal with a free speech zone. Who knows you might find it refreshing compared to all the pretense and bullshit you are accustomed too.