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Silver Slams Higher As Bitcoin Hysteria Shifts To Non-Electronic Money
It would appear that physical assets trump digital assets this morning in Europe as Silver has just spiked over 1% (and Gold back over $1615) as Bitcoins plunge on heavy volume... Did the Europeans run out of Bitcoins? Given the lack of movement in 'traditional' currency markets, one has to wonder just how much faith has been lost in the folding fiat fiasco.
Gold is also starting to jump now...
Charts: Bloomberg and BitcoinCharts.com
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See if silver can keep from getting slammed back under $29 now. The cartel has been ruthless holding $29 lately
If gold can get over $1620 maybe the short covering magnet can pull everything up with it.
I'm giving up and selling my silver on this mornings bounce. Ben B. has made it clear: if you buy Nexflix, Groupon, Facebook, LinkedIn, Google, etc. you make money...anything else, the Fed will crush you. I finally got the message!
You would reget that decision in a few years.
years?
Who controls bitcoin?
CIA
Indeed metals performed better than bitcoin on this 2 hours timescale. Nice troll Tyler !
Just kidding! Wouldn't dream of selling my silver. But I did switch from SLV to USLV yesterday. That's how confident I am in a big move soon
If you don't hold it in your hands, you don't own it. You only have a paper claim on a paper asset.
It's not a claim, it's not even paper...
Still, it's something nobody can create outside of the very transparent and predefined issuance program.
What is backing up the value of bitcoin..??
Faith. A whole lot of faith.
Credo, credere, in Latin. Belief in English.
Do you think storing value in a limited, impossible to counterfeit currency is valueless ?
Do you think storing money on a usb stick or even the cloud, and transfering it anywhere in seconds for next to nothing is valueless ?
Ha Ha LOL the Fucking bankers didn’t see this one coming!
The Euro PIIGS are using Bitcoin to move their savings out of the Euro zone ergo creating a demand for the electronic currency. This is just what Bitcoin needed to become legit, and out side of their squids reach.
Io non mangio con Roth Hyman.
Frank Pentangeli Godfather II
"What is backing up the value of bitcoin..??"
~~~
See ~ What you get is a virtual shotgun, which, according to a holographic Joe Biden, you virtually fire into the air, TWICE, to scare off any potential perps...
It's THAT easy & convenient...
1. wake up to find this
2. check btc price
3. all-time high @ $73
PS. Eventhough I'm a huge proponent, I think this is a bubble. I'm back to the silver stack here.
yeah, WTF kind of currency goes up and down in price like Bitcoin? Sure I can see 1-.5% move like a normal currency.This is a total fucking FED CIA jizz bubble ready to expolde in their face...
We are watching the panic heard of sheep funneling into the slaughter house in real time
So what can you buy with bitcoins?
You can buy a lot of stuff, including PMs. /r/bitcoin is the place to go.
This bubble gotta pop, it's totally parabolic. I'm not selling btc, I'm taking the hit, and I'm back to PMs, which are really fucking cheap. When you need 22 bitcoins to get an ounce of gold, and this happened in the space of 4 months, it's time to take a breath.
Such high volatility is probably normal in a currency that begins its levitation. An event we haven't ever seen before.
Yes, it's worthless. #1: Who wants a currency where every single transaction can be traced? #2: Who wants a currency that is worthless in a power outage? #3: Who wants to store value in an open source currency with no barriers to entry? If bitcoin really catches on any other well-heeled entity large enough to run an affinity program can create a competing version, which would result in a huge decrease in purchasing power for holders of the original bitcoin branded currency. #4: There are serious problems with the way that bitcoins interface with bank accounts, because transactions in one are reversible and in the other they are not. Thus the potential for getting scammed is high. As is the potential for having your storage location robbed, or your storage media corrupted resulting in a loss. In short, bitcoins suck and are nearly worthless.
And according to the market, your opinion is worthless.
The Bitcoin Channel
Oh great! An easy & informative WEBSITE... Just in time for granny to get interested [& for about 10,000 'fake' GET YOUR BITCOINS HERE websites to start popping up, so granny can cash in her tea set, set up a PAY PAL account, & wire the funds to UPPER VOLTA]...
~~~
That ought to instill confidence going forward... [now that the 'Nigerian Prince' scam has worn out its welcome]...
you forgot to blame the jews this time
#5 Regulatory risk (see InTrade) If bitCoin ever becomes big enough to be of a real irritant (i.e. being in the news too much) then it will get punked by some govt entity in the name of public good
#6 Hacking - These fools get hacked with some regularity and it seems to shave quite a bit of value off every time there is a "forked-branch" or "fucked-branch" not sure which
If you are investing in bitCoin you kinda deserve what is coming to you
You're talking about the profits, right ?
I am so sick of hearing this argument that bitcoin is "limited". Listen, it's a cryptographic pair system essentially, right? I other words its a finite set of numbers culled from the infinite set of all numbers. Well, guess what, there is an infinite number of such sets. Simply change the algorithm or the seeds and presto! You have just created BitCoin2! It is a new, limited, set of keys. So what do all the BTC-heads think is going to happen if BTC exchange rate just goes parabolic like they all hope? Does anyone really think that another competing BTC set won't be created by people unwilling to pay $25k per BTC? Now you have another competing currency with ALL THE SAME PROPERTIES AS BTC! Get it? Now it's just an adoption race. BTC will have first-mover advantage but absolutely nothing stops others from choosing to transact in BTC2 or BTC3.
You really think if this sort of digital currency paradigm starts threatening the petro-dollar or the yuan, or any other currency back by the full faith and credit of an army that government players will not get involved somehow? Either by soaking up and manipulating BTC like any other currency, or by creating competing BTCs tied to violence and oil.
I am open to rebuttals but thus far I have not seen a single argument that explains how BTC-next is not a threat to BTC-original. Only the set is limited, the set of sets is infinite.
"BTC will have first-mover advantage"
Which is pretty much all that is needed. See eg Windows
"BTC will have first-mover advantage"
Which is pretty much all that is needed. See eg Windows
ROFL, see eg MSFT @ ~$28
I'll wait til uncle warren announces investing in bitcoin
If it's faith that a superior system will make the present one obsolete, then yes
The ability to buy drugs online pretty much.
Scarcity, contrasted with infinite fiat.
uhhh, physical, physical, physical, physical... and then more physical.
Caracalla,
That is only paper; not silver.
SUCKA !
Don't be a silvertease......I was going to send you my email address, got pretty pieces of paper issued by the Fed for trade.
"Wouldn't dream of selling my silver. But I did switch from SLV to USLV yesterday."
Jesus fucking christ.
I'm moving to silver paint cans - best of both worlds: physical and can be put on paper, too - you just couldn't ask for better!
Then, I'm moving into the gold paint market: I'm gonna print me some nice bitcoins, paint them gold, and sell them on ebay, right next to the chinese gold coins.
I'm super totally confident about this new approach of mine, after all, you have to embrace this new age of e-conomy! YAY!
Because we love ya....
The article below more than covers all the anti bit coin rhetoric the blog can muster.....
Long long ago I told you this when btc was 10£ I am telling you again now many of you will wait till 1000£ .....
But never say we did not try to educate you....and yes I am much more into pm ....I like btc for the same reason I like take aways that cook the food in front of you.....nothing hidden...
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths
I always thought this was how TPTB were going to make the shift to a completely electronic currency. Make the people think it's their choice. The longer BTC survives, the more I believe in my thesis...if BTC were a true competitor, they'd have been crushed by now!
Your thesis is circular. Maybe TPTB don't have as much power as you think they do?
The Bitcoin Channel
Not only is my thesis circular, but so is my investment choice (gold bullion). And if TPTB have half of the power and influence I think they have, we're still in trouble....
He said "controls" not "trolls".
Descartes, Maxwell, Gauss, Ramanujan, Euler, Riemann, Euclid, Hilbert, Leibniz, et al.
Oh noes, a conspiracy of boring dead guys!
"Who controls bitcoin?"
Clearly not you
edith bunker
SMG, I'm not neccesarily replying to you, but I wanted to post this up towards the top, so that my conscience can say: You at least told them something they might chew on. With that said-
2 years ago I first heard about Bitcoin. As a person who likes technology and happens to have a pretty decent rig, I decided 'What the heck, the computer is on 24/7 even if I'm not and I can have it mine while I'm asleep'. I saw a slight increase in my electrical bill from the increase in GPU power consumption, but overall, it wasn't killing me as I was making pretty decent money at the time. In the process I was reading ZH daily, like now, and as soon as I would get a full Bitcoin, I would transfer it to a mini-usb card about the size of your pinky nail. But I believed that maybe ZH'ers were right and it was just another flash in the pan, full of hype, and never meant to be a 'serious' currency- not to be confused with money. When Bitcoine went up to $12, then back down to $5 in less than 24 hours, I decided that maybe this was the end. And stopped mining.
I should have went with my gut and kept going at the level I had been doing- It didnt' take up my time, and I was buying physical silver anyway, so I really didn't lose anything. Except for what happened yesterday when I sold a few bitcoins for some physical. That's when I realized that I just lost out on over a years worth of build up.
I understand a lot of ZH'ers don't understand the appeal. That's fine. I also see a lot fo ZH'ers who dont WANT to understand; ergo- it's bad, worthless, ad naseum. Don't use it. You've obviously been burnt from some other poor choices and seem to believe that you know it all now to guide people to a better light. Go open your own website and advise people of how you are making a killing with whatever your personal 'coin' of choice is. But at least stop with the negative comments. Most of you haven't done more than read a few lines of shill crap, saw a couple of cherry picking data points, then felt you were the SME for anyone in earshot. Me, I feel like a greater fool for listening to some of you, as I wasn't doing anything that took a lot of energy or time away from my other pursuits. And the sad part is I actually liked quite a few of you with your very informative posts and great insights on events and outcomes. What finally dawned on me is this- you had great insight because you had a much greater experience base than I did. With Bitcoin, you have none, and it shows.
Each of you who come out with a snarky comment about- "Well hell Bitcoin is up, let's all sell all our PM's and buy now while we still can! /s" really don't have a clue, and it's just another useless way to create confusion, resentment, and most of all; ignorance. But then you talk about waking the sheeple up and 'Down with the Man'. Bitcoin ain't the greatest, but it's an alternative. And though some of you gloss over the obvious I will say what other's keep pointing out: It's not money. That's reserved for real money- Silver, Gold, Platinum. But it is a currency. An alternative to the FRN and EU currencies that we are watching get debased daily. And you're all right about it not being a big enough issue for the .gov to come down on, when they do, maybe I'll have just enough time to cash out and take my MONEY and have a boating accident. But until each and every one of you naysayers have completly stopped using FRN's in their entirety because of all your 'expert' opinions about how they are a fraud, gimmick, ponzi too, you really don't have much to stand on. My mistake was not seeing your own hubris soon enough, as I try not to think about how much I could have made in PM's today if I had went with my initial thoughts, instead of taken your's as a more informed apporach. And I actually researched it.
Guess we all learn something. Or those of us who are willing to.
So you're just going to lube up your vagina and let Ben slide right in, eh?
I am Chumbawamba.
Since it is clear Gentle Ben prefers "back room" deals and "behind the scenes" obfuscation, we are thinking he is more of a dirt road kind of guy.
Ben doesn't like to let you use lube, and he doesn't like the vagina. He's going straight for your ass!!
Well, make sure the cupboard has Spagetti noodles, powdered milk and Jack Daniels, before you "all in" the stox. Best to you friend. To each his own.
"Caracalla", Ever hear of being Penny Wise and Pound Foolish? Have you possibly ever heard that "Patience is a Virtue"?
Because of your impatience, I put you in the Pound Foolish category.
Think about it...
You're point is well made. I'd advise all of you to sell immediately right after I gat paid tomorrow.
(Please imagine line through the word immediately)
Folks - stick with the phyz. A crypto currency, while appealing in its' anonymous and fluid characteristics, is at the end of the day another cute gimmik, soon to go the way of the hoolahoop and beanie baby, as several others become available. It will be inflation by denomination (I can see the fraction decimal drill chart now), or devaluation by competition. Either way, it cannot compete with the periodic table-proven monies; gold and silver
We don't know what bitcoin is but it sounds like chump change to us.
BTC is perfectly safe and convenient, once we implant the wallet in your forehead. That way you won't lose it like that poor sap interviewed on National Geographic did.
Wallet in the forehead, eh? Well, they have come up with dumber ideas such as "money" backed by nothing more than future debt...
No offense to the Bitcoiners, bless your hearts, but why are bitcoins even a topic of conversation, especially relative to PMs?
Phys silver holdings, by strong hands, are immune to TPTB, as well as to ElectroMagenticPulses, and even the Annunaki (who really only want the gold). /sar
Sounds like someone has been listening to Galactic Federation of Light channeling. Not that I would even know what that means.
Gold filled Latinum bitchez.
technically I think it was gold pressed latinum...
Correct.
[Puts on nerd glasses]
Technically Latinum was a liquid metal which could not be replicated, it had to be encased in gold for ease of physical transaction.
[/glasses off]
Key feature we see is that even in the ST universe with energy-matter replicator machines they realized the need for a currency which could not be artificially inflated. For the 21st century we will just have to rely on good old-fashioned phyzzical PMs I guess. ;)
Bitcoins serve a very valuable purpose--to get around currency controls.
They are meant to be held for a few hours only, just until you can cash them out in another country, for a currency that is at least kinda stable until you can get there and buy some PMs..
For this purpose, they stand head and shoulders above all other currencies. PMs carry intense confiscation risks when crossing borders, and that is BEFORE currency controls come into play.
Sure it's a nice tool for currency controls.
But don't you think a limited supply makes it also a great way to store value ? At least for a small part of your portfolio ?
Are you paying attention? Look at the volitility. BTC swings 10 percent in a day, easily. It can go to $100, it can go to $5.
+1. Additionally they have the benefit of anonymous online purchasing, for when the occasion arises that you don't want to be tracked.
Every single bitcoin transaction is traceable. That's the entire premise of its validation chains.
It's not that simple. I suggest you read this :
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity
Actually, I keep losing mine in rare avalanches.
That is the best reasoning on BTC use I have heard to date, bravo.
(Edit: unclear who I was responding to, which was the point that BTC should be used for short duration to convert in and out of currency/PMs across borders to avoid currency controls. I think given the volatility others have noted the short duration approach makes more sense than long term store of value.)
no Bitcoin EUR crash at all, opened at 50, now around 57. Volatility, as would be expected with a thin float.
Shit man. I sure as hope that these great ZH'ers dont get on this Bitcoin crap. PM's I can get but believe me this Bitcoin thing is gonna blow out. Like it did the first time.
I guess the Annunaki can't be all bad if they have such a hankering for physical gold.
The Annunaki have a hankering for YOUR gold.
Ahhh, the newest troll argument: "it will be diluted by other crypto-currencies"
I bet you didn't know those already exist did you? And they have been rallying against Bitcoin as Bitcoin rallies against the dollar. So sad, another shill/troll argument destroyed. FAIL. Try again.
The Bitcoin Channel
So because other competing crypto-currencies haven't yet surpassed bitcoin, they never will? Sounds like a poor argument to support a currency. Tell us, will there be more or less demand for other crypto-currencies if BTC convesrion ever reached the heady heights some predict of $1000s per BTC? When the barrier to entry becomes high, some will seek competition. In other words, according to your argument silver should go to zero because gold is more rare? Or is it gold should go to zero because platinum is more rare?
A currency backed by nothing but rarity that can be replicated in other ways (e.g. New algorithm or seed) will eventually find competition. The fact that none have surpassed it to date has no bearing on it happening in the future.
So you wouldn't get into BTC because some other crypto-currency could potentially threaten it in the future? Then trade into that one if and when... duh!
Arrest Blyth Masters
What for? You don't seriously believe that today's judicial system will send bankers to prison?
FREE JON CORZINE! Oh wait....
yesterday I mentioned that the bollinger bands on Silver are closest since years at very low 84 cents distance.
Something big is going to happen, either up or down!
After today I believe it will go up. Enter now with a SIN3 in backwardation at 29.15 with a stop at 2870. Little downside to this trade but maybe tremendous upside.
Can I just go buy some eagles instead?
sorry not in backwardation, contango is 6 cents, hence 29.21
My common sense band on Silver is the tightest it's been since last options expiry day. This is more likely another herding of the sheeple before the beat-down tomorrow...hopefully I'm wrong.
If silver breaks 29.40 to the upside, then shorts will start covering..... Call it slaughterer's law..
Great, more for me. Thanks cartel.
wow-a 1% jump-be still my beating heart
When will people listen to Uncle Dave? Bitcoins are CPU cycles and a means of exchange that is built in deflationary. Originallry designed as a slow deflator but a single Quantum algo can create unlimited Bitcoins (yes I know they wont get the blocks) therefore pushing the deflator to zero. Whats left? Nothingness
What is a quantum algo? Whatever it is how would it create unlimited bitcoins?
Do you understand how the difficulty is adjusted to compensate for increases and decreases of network computing power?
Do you know how bitcoins are brought into existence?
I mean in one sentence you say btc is deflationary, then you suggest some unicorn algo can create unlimited supply....
?!?!?!
I think what he is saying is, if a secret government project were to create a quantum computer 50 trillion times faster than the entire mining network, they could mine all the remaining blocks to 21 million within a 10 minute span before difficulty could adjust.
A better question is what is a quantum moron?
some one at JPM stepped out for coffe, will destroy prices in a few minutes.
... on no volume using hft
No, do not say this is due to a JPM coffee break.... Contract movement is saying otherwise.
JPM will shortly sell 800,000,000 ounces in a mili-second and back to $28.00. I think we have seen this before. FUCK JPM!
That's why Jamie Dimon is richer than you
(but that gap is closing by the minute)
Nah, I do not think JPM can control this movement... There is a rumor that Soros is getting back in... I think we are seeing the start of the third climb to $50 today.
I don't think that nazi ever left. He sold his GLD shares so the fuckfaces at CNBC could have a group circle jerk, but in all liklihood took pyhsical delivery.
Ben is teaching Kevin a lesson in stall 3, 4th floor west
But I heard that BITCOINS had positive anti-microbial characteristics...
~~~
In addition ~ you can use them to make solar panels [you know ~ to charge up your Volt when you need some fire to cook your dinner]...
I don't understand why anyone would go to bitcoins which is nothing but thin air, compared to having a solid piece of shining metal in your hands. The scams for money never ends. Hold the physical and be at peace. Your destiny is in your own hands not someone's else's digital world.
Not only is it thin air but it actually destroys value... mining for virtual currency? Fuck that. That is the litmus that exposes Shitcoins as a Ponzi scam.
It's glorified fucking FARMVILLE...
Give me bitcoin or give me death....
If you get death instead of bitcoin, can I have your gold and silver?
In Farmville, they dig up Bitcoins for a nickle a piece - virtually, right out of the ground.
I buried $50K in BITCOINS in the backyard of my Farmville farm. Lets see the FEDS find 'em.
I lost my bitcoins in an unfortunate boating accident.
Oh wait..
'I lost my bitcoins in an unfortunate boating accident.'
So what you are saying is...
*puts on sunglasses*
...that ship has sailed.
.
Gold is a metal that is worth so much primarily because it is a good form of money (including the status of a good store of value). Had it been used solely as a industrial commodity (we've probably been closest to such a condition around the 1960's) it would of been worth a fraction of it's historic prices and the mining rates we have in reality would of been absolutely wasteful and be much much lower instead. So we are mining so much for a form of money? Something that just sits there? Yes! Mining is a proof of work. If gold didn't require mining because it was everywhere, it wouldn't be rare. If it wasn't rare it wouldn't be good as a form of money. Moreover, if/when there wasn't much gold mining because there wasn't much of it to be found, it would rise its price and thus urge people to go look for it in new places or in new ways. Investing in physical gold stimulates exploration - expeditions to unpopulated places and improvements in technology. The latter might sound a bit Keynesian (broken window kind) but the former - populating new places can be a noble goal in my opinion. People moved from one valley to the next, from one continent to the next and will probably move from one planet to the next partially motivated by looking for more gold. Finally, if you ask yourself is there anything that can disrupt this whole scheme - the answer is not much, not in the near future. What can and will disrupt it in the distant future is a feasible technology for creating gold through nuclear transmutation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesis_of_precious_metals and cheap energy sources. This would link the gold price to the price of energy (which would be declining anyway), making it senseless to move gold around instead of energy itself and thus breaking the whole scheme, sending gold prices into the abyss. At least we will have the technology to create any element from other, cheaper elements and abundant energy. If you insist you can call this a Ponzi scam, the longest running and most valuable one ever. I wouldn't call it so though.
Now if you think about Bitcoin and similar cryptocurrencies - there are many similarities, although admittedly Bitcoin probably cannot hope to achieve the same longevity as gold already has. Bitcoins are valuable because they are useful as a currency thanks to their dedicated and innovative payment system (Bitcoins are not even claimed to compete for a status of a store of value with assets that have inherent value. Bitcoins only have subjective value). So we are mining so much for a currency that is not even a tangible asset? Processing power that doesn't even give us any new information? Yes! People spend processing power 1. to process all the transactions; 2. as a proof of work and 3. to create a high enough barrier against an attack from an enemy of Bitcoin (any attacker would need to consistently use MORE processing power than all existing bitcoin miners combined, which is a LOT!). This demand for processing power encourages innovation in that area and building more processing capacity. If nothing else, this can be used to gain more knowledge, which is another noble goal. If Bitcoin spurs the development of any disruptive technologies that threaten its survival, such as quantum computers (which by the way wouldn't break Bitcoin instantly, just call for some changes), then I wouldn't mind that either.
It is debatable whether Bitcoin, of all cryptocurrencies that followed and will follow, has the right characteristics for rewarding miners, increasing the supply of the currency and other things. And if/when something substantially better at what Bitcoin does (note that Bitcoin was the first cryptocurrency of its kind, allowing transactions truly free from the need for trusted third parties) emerges, bitcoin prices might indeed slump akin to a bursting bubble. However, in the mean time it does provide value that you can't get elsewhere and it will leave value behind even if it is gone.
Thank you! Finally, someone understands this stupid ponzi scam. Bitcoin was just thought into the air, and suddenly it is supposed to garner 100's of billions in market value? Like anothe poster said, bitcoin will go the way of the beanie baby and tulips.
71 dollars and climbing
Bitcoin: win
You: fail
You say:
Not before giving the world something useful for everybody (unlike tulips) - namely the ability to do global, fast, cheap payments free from any human factor (unlike the fiat currencies and even precious metal backed currencies).
Few are "going into" bitcoins. Think of BTC as the underground railroad. Fleeing slaves don't enter the underground railroad to live there, in false walls and under cubboards. Their old lives were better than that. No, they go there for a short while until they can get to somewhere where they can be free.
BTC is to get past currency controls, and nothing more. Speculators will get murdered, for sure.
+~! Outstanding analogy!
I put Bit Coin before EVERY other FIAT currency on the Planet. Why do you think it has done what it has? No Guberment or Wall Street to manipulate it.
I more worried holding the Dollar & Euro.
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg360ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
52 week chart, Physical Gold & Silver would be doing the same without Wall Street & the Guberment. RETHINK!
Physical is wealth preservation king during and around a storm. When you want to continue economic activities on a global scale, irrespective of legacy payment mechanisms that all require fragile chains of trusted third parties, Bitcoin shines (it requires no trusted third parties).
BITCOINS are kewl. Only the youth really understand them, so I'm not surprised that you don't.
Dude.
/s
My phaser runs on bitcoins but i can't afford to use it because DHS just ordered 1.7 billion of them
What the hell is going on? It's supposed to SLAM DOWN @ 8:20am....not up!
Wow, silver is only down 10% since the beginning of February. Time to celebrate!
Buy low, sell high ya big dummy.
So that is you covering your short from $32 this morning, liar?
I'm getting pretty good at this ZeroHedge thing. All I have to do is make a statement of fact, and the zerohedge fanboys will downvote because fanboys hate facts and lack critical thinking.
No need to get flustered buster...if critical thinking is your thing, why stop short when the glass is half full.
Silver...down a percent or two on the month....
up 71.74% on the fiver.
Now, carry on with your thought!
don't forget sitting in your underwear and rubbing PM coins on your nipples
+1
Now that is funny!!
DaddyO
A useless fact without context, is no good to anyone.
There is stating facts as part of a useful argument and then there's useless trolling.
You will all exit the digital/fiat game when you discover they are all rigged
+1
Beware the ability to control everything digital.
With the stroke of a pen, or a keypress, everything is gone.
People misunderstand that the purpose of central authority is to manage the populace. All electronic flows are very easy to control, and they provide great insight to the central planners regarding behavior, and more opportunities for control.
Even physical fiat has more value than electronic, because you control it.
True, but the issues remain:
We're still playing the "prettiest horse at the glue factory" game.
The most efficient economic system known to Man is the Gift Economy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_economy), but that doesn't scale well, and tends to resist corruption by central authority, so it is technically illegal in many places.
We are in the "Grift" economy right now.
that's a good one. historically, the "Gift Economy" is a "Debt Economy", too, and as you say it does indeed resist well, since it's based on personal trust. Which can't be rehypothecated that easily. Interestingly, in all civilizations this kind of economy "falls pray" to monasteries and similar religious institutions. Then you suddently see a lot of religious items in gold and silver, as "excess liquidity" is drained from the economy. Happens in cycles, btw.
Agreed, but it is not "debt" in the sense of compounding-debt. And, it's merely "good-will" debt (not monetary debt).
However, that participation is voluntary. The Church may "compel" (and has, such as during "The Inquisition" -- which, "no one expects" ;-), but in modern society people are not compelled.
Rather, the Gift Economy is better understood now through the modern equivolent of "barn raisings", and numerous "charitable clubs" (like in the USA), where the members help each other out on weekends and evenings, or when somebody needs something. The slobs that only "take" tend to be cut off from offers-of-help, but the anonymous individual is given the "benefit-of-the-doubt".
Yes, it's somewhat based on "trust", but more specifically on "good-will", where people "police" where their own time and money is better spent.
And, people do tend to "cut-off" the institutions that siphon from the community (in the modern era).
sounds very familiar to me - produce, barter/trade, share/gift. . .
that's solid going forward, trust in the community one builds.
silver as a store of produced value.
the multiple variants of fiat, pixel or otherwise, I'll leave to the speculators.
Gifting, aka potlatch, was illegal in Canada from 1884 to 1951. Besides the missionaries claimed it was not the Christian thing to do. (Hard to disagree with that, LOL.)
"In 1919, four potlatchers were arrested at the Kwawkewlth Agency in British Columbia. When the four and seventy-three additional community members signed an agreement to obey the law and stopped the practice of the potlatch, the Crown dropped its charges. The following year, eight Indians from Alert Bay pled guilty to participating in a potlatch. Seven were sentenced to two months in jail. The eighth, an elderly man, received a suspended sentence.
In 1921, Nimpkish (Kwakwaka'wakw) chief Daniel Cranmer sponsored a potlatch-reported to be the largest ever given up to that time-in order to repay his wife's family as part of the marriage settlement. The local Indian agent decided to prosecute those who participated in the ceremony and was able to obtain 45 convictions. Twenty-three people, including ranking chiefs and women, were sent to prison. Twenty-two received suspended sentences in return for agreeing to hand over their potlatch regalia. As a result, 750 ceremonial objects were turned over to the government. To be charged with crimes as speaking, dancing, and giving or receiving gifts appeared to the Kwakwaka'waka to be an utter contravention of natural law.
With regard to the confiscated potlatch ceremonial items, the local Indian agent put them on display in the parish hall at Alert Bay and charged an admission. The items were then sold to collectors and museums. Some of the items were shipped to the National Museum in Ottawa and some were sold to a collector for the Museum of the American Indian in New York.
Potlatching declined as a result of this persecution. The potlatch was pushed underground after the Cranmer convictions. People continued to potlatch, but they either held them in remote villages away from government eyes or they disguised the potlatch as a Christmas or wedding exchange.
In 1951, the Canadian Indian Act was modified and the laws against the potlatch were dropped. While the potlatch had continued in spite of the law, it now took on a new vigor. "
http://www.nativeamericannetroots.net/diary/631/the-potlatch
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it is. the "criminal justice" system does not serve humanity, it serves the controllers, or as honestann calls them out - predators.
as the writing shows, the community merely goes "underground" with their natural activities, and the suspicion/hate directed towards the controlling class gets passed along the generations. those not within community get sucked into the controller's systems of living, and eventually come to work with the controllers, believing they are the same as.
trusting in false systems, working for the predators to persecute the community - may seem beneficial for a while, but in times like these, and going forward, if you don't have community, you're on your own. . .
How can it be the most efficient if it doesn't scale well?
That is a contradictory claim if I have ever heard one.
Efficient implies societal wealth: Everybody has the stuff they want, when they want it, in the face of their limited resources.
The rise of the "gift economy" in the Elizabethan era raised the average height of the peasants by 6", because nutrition was abundant (everybody had food). That era is known for growth-of-culture and prosperity.
However, "scaling" implies centralization-of-production and distribution. Think "Globalization". We've had a lot of that in the last 20 years. Think "centralized-power-production", where "scaling" brings more power online (through a centralized mechanism of power-production).
So, you can't "scale" (easily) a "gift-economy" because it resists central-planning. A "company" or a "government" can "scale". The "gift-economy" can grow, even over regions, but it resists such central planning efforts.
We will now get the opposite of "globalization". And, it will be difficult to "centrally-plan" and "centrally-control" it.
it will be impossible to fully control.
they'll just have to kill everyone, which sadly they have no qualms over, as history shows.
"All electronic flows are very easy to control"
How's that control working out against bittorrent or TOR?
You might wanna look up the word cryptography and actually educate yourself a little bit before spouting off. Here's a start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptography
When "bittorrent" is used to settle transactions, let me know.
"Free as in beer" is not the same as "free as in speech".
And yes, service providers can-and-do throttle bittorrent traffic.
Bitcoins purchased using the Tor browser then waqshed in a Bitcoin Laundry, then stored cold on a dedicated laptop with locked down Ubuntu and backed up with paper. Freedom.
Maybe not.. I mean how many examples do we need before we learn the stove is hot?
Havent too many people experienced the Corzine Effect?
Corzine Effect: Where supposed wealth alchemizes from reality to surreality, and the founder is dumbfounded
This is a dead-cat rebound. It's a perfect chance to short silver.