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Cyprus Deal... Or No Deal: "Anonymous" Rumor vs Euro Commission

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The conflicting headlines continue to spew forth from the union of European nations. Reuters CYBC is reporting that Cyprus has agreed a 'deal' with EU/IMF lenders a 20% levy on deposits over EUR100,000 for Bank of Cyprus and a 4% levy on deposits of the same amount at other lenders (and the Cypriots have dropped plans to nationalize pension funds) citing a senior Cypriot official (who demanded anonymity). At the same time, EU Commissioner Olli Rehn emailed a statement saying that a 'deal' has yet to come forth:

  • *REHN SAYS COMMISSION WORKING HARD TO FIND CYPRUS SOLUTION
  • *REHN SAYS ONLY HARD CHOICES LEFT FOR CYPRUS
  • *REHN SAYS `ESSENTIAL' CYPRUS SOLUTION REACHED ON SUNDAY NIGHT

So who does one believe? And with no market open to test this strawman, what will the decision-makers have to guide their choices? One thing is for sure:

  • *REHN SAYS 'NO LONGER ANY OPTIMAL SOLUTIONS AVAILABLE'
  • *REHN SAYS ONLY HARD CHOICES LEFT FOR CYPRUS

 

Via Bloomberg,

“we recognise the progress now being made by the Cypriot government towards a solution which can pave the way for an agreement on a financial assistance program”

 

“intensive work and contacts will continue in the coming hours”

 

“it is essential that an agreement is reached by the Eurogroup on Sunday evening in Brussels on a financial assistance program for Cyprus”

 

“this agreement then needs to be swiftly implemented by Cyprus and its euro-zone partners”

 

“events of recent days have led to a situation where there are no longer any optimal solutions available”

 

“there are only hard choices left”

 

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Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:58 | 3366249 IMA5U
IMA5U's picture

Deal

 

Come on man

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:05 | 3366269 Cdad
Cdad's picture

No deal

I'm hearing that the plan to steal less money to secure/insure moar money has been challenged by a fifth grade Cypriot math class.  Hearing that the teacher of said math class is very proud.

More to come...

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:09 | 3366284 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

They are in Jeopardy, unless the Price Is Right.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:09 | 3366293 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Who Wants to be a Russian Billionaire?

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:42 | 3366386 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

I wonder if they have the hot scantily clad girls opening the little suitcases at their meetings too see what is inside?

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 17:04 | 3366632 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

I've Got a Secret

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 18:31 | 3366922 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

Its all part of the 10,000,000,000,000 dollar pyramid.

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 00:17 | 3367631 bigyimmy007
bigyimmy007's picture

You're missing a few zeroes. ;)

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:22 | 3366335 Mae Kadoodie
Mae Kadoodie's picture

Working hard or hardly working?

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:56 | 3366388 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Hearing now that a third grade math class in France is challenging the fifth graders of Cyprus.  They cite the lack of fractals as being the problem with fifth grade argument.  In the footnotes of their supposition re fractals is a note: "US Federal Reserve Bank" w/ a picture of Ben Bernanke.

Third graders in France say "Deal."  

**Additional:  Third grade math students in France also say that they have the support of a class of second graders in Ireland, but so far no one has been able to contact them to confirm their support or to evaluate their calculations. 

Also...math students in Iceland are gathering tomorrow to publicly laugh out loud.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:02 | 3366433 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1

For weirdest post of the day!

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 17:05 | 3366625 Cdad
Cdad's picture

This just in...the IMF apparently received the argument put forth by 5th grade math students in Cyprus:  "Less CY deposit confiscation cannot secure/insure moar CY deposits."   Blast!

3rd grade French math students are reportedly "Devastated" by the news.  

In Iceland, math students at all grade levels are already laughing out loud, although unofficially so.  Organizers for tomorrow's math gathering are cautioning students not to use up all of their laughter prior to the event. 

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_23/03/2013_489584

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 21:28 | 3367389 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

This deal if it is one won't past muster for the EU, pure and simple.  Also I don't think for one minute that the Cyprus politicians will do the high percentage on the over 100,000 euro deposits or even a percentage on the smaller deposits.  They know that it will kill their govt. pure and simple.  Also the banks will need more money when people start to pull money out of their banks capital controls or no capital controls.  All the capital controls do is make it a death of a thousand cuts, slow death of the economy and every few weeks needing more bailout money from the EU.  Lets say the control is to allow people only 200 euros a day out of their accounts.  There are at least a million accounts if not more, so lets just say 1 million accounts.  Thats 200 million a day, 1 billion a week.  In 4 weeks the banks will be needing to fill that hole again and again and again. 

This won't end well.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:08 | 3366285 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

WIld guess....they demand more German tax dollars than Germany taxpayers are either obliged or willing to give.   And Germany tells them to figure out themselves.   Banks fail, and Cypriot 'leaders' bitch about how it could all have been avoided if only someone else (cough....evil Germans) had agreed to pick up the 66% of the tab tha someone else (cough....evil Germans) had originally agreed to pay.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:12 | 3366473 machineh
machineh's picture

Tried to charge a Lear Jet to my Bundesbank TARGET2 card this afternoon ... and the terminal flashed back, 'TRANSACTION DENIED.'

Enraged, I rang Bundesbank Customer Service and demanded to know why.

'Sir, your balance exceeds your credit limit,' the clerk told me.

'But it's only €650 billion!' I shouted. 'And I'm going to ... well, uh ... anyhow, you haven't heard the last of this!'

Man, it sucks to take the bus home ...

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:03 | 3366436 Jake88
Jake88's picture

what exactly does, "Deal Come on man" mean?

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:05 | 3366446 Silver Bug
Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:09 | 3366464 Jake88
Jake88's picture

Be careful what you wish for.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:01 | 3366256 Mongo
Mongo's picture

The hard choice was joining the Euro... the easy choice is leaving it!

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:01 | 3366259 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:02 | 3366260 billstets
billstets's picture

What does this mean?

 

The House of Lords, then the highest court in the land, had its say on the matter in Foley v Hill and Others 1848, duly reported in the Clerk’s Reports, House of Lords 1847-66 (pages 28 and 36-7). In summary, the appellant in 1829 opened a bank account with the respondent bankers. Two further deposits we added in 1830 and in 1831 interest was still added. In 1838 the appellant brought proceedings against the respondent bankers seeking recovery of both the principle and interest. The counsel cleverly tried to argue that it was the duty of the respondent bankers to keep all the accounts up to date at all times and thus there was more to this relationship than that of debtor and creditor.

The Lord Chancellor Cottenham said the following in judgement

Money, when paid into a bank, ceases altogether to be the money of the principal; it is by then the money of the banker, who is bound to return an equivalent by paying a similar sum to that deposited with him when he is asked for it. The money paid into a banker’s is money known by the principal to be placed there for the purpose of being under the control of the banker; it is then the banker’s money; he is known to deal with it as his own; he makes what profit of it he can, which profit he retains to himself, paying back only the principal, according to the custom of bankers in some places, or the principal and a small rate of interest, according to the custom of bankers in other places. The money placed in custody of a banker is, to all intents and purposes, the money of the banker, to do with it as he pleases; he is guilty of no breach of trust in employing it; he is not answerable to the principal if he puts it into jeopardy, if he engages in a hazardous speculation; he is not bound to keep it or deal with it as the property of his principal; but he is, of course, answerable for the amount, because he has contracted, having received that money, to repay to the principal, when demanded, a sum equivalent to that paid into his hands.

That has been the subject of discussion in various cases, and that has been established to be the relative situation of banker and customer. That being established to be the relative situations of banker and customer, the banker is not an agent or factor, but he is a debtor.

http://www.cobdencentre.org/2010/09/the-legal-relationship-between-the-b...

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:06 | 3366273 UK debt marsh
UK debt marsh's picture

It means that when you deposit money in bank, you are lending them the money.

You are their creditor, and they are your debtor.

Anybody who thinks that a bank deposit is "their" money is deluded.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:21 | 3366329 YC2
YC2's picture

Too bad with ZIRP you get charged both ways - as creditor and debtor to a bank.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:43 | 3366389 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

I wish my wife went both ways  ;)

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 18:37 | 3366950 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

Taken in context, it means your wife spends your money and charges you.  I'd rethink that, maybe.

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 09:07 | 3367992 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Here's the clarifier:  ;)

Although, isn't that what wives do?  Spend their husbands money?

 

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:40 | 3366370 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

That comment (in the context of 19th century legal decision) is deluded.

For purposes of simplicty- international BAILMENT norms with regard to financial accounts have definitely moved away from bailments  for the sole benefit of the bailor. Safe Keeping and Closed Deposit accounts don't still exist even today, there is little incentive to offer them, however, because bailments for the sole benefit of the bailor CANNOT BE REPORTED AS AN ASSET OF THE BANK, and the liability cost for the bank is higher because of the EXTRAORDINARY care standard compliance, as opposed to REASONABLE care, and legal rehypothecation even under Common Law is more problematic.

That website really has no business pontificating on the ramifications of 19th century contract disputes without putting them in proper context, or least providing a copy of the disputed contract.

As a practical matter though- since the was payment of interest TO THE DEPOSITOR, it would imply that the depositor consented to a bailment for mutual benefit, or for the sole benefit of the bailee.

What funny is that we're ten years into ZIRP and half a decade into a banking crisis, and the little fish (who for the most part are every bit as greedy as the big fish) don't demand better of the banks - at least in line with historical norms.  It's not like the .01% APY on their McBank McBalance actually yields any pruchasing power or protextion of real cost escalations, and yet they mostly keep what little they have in the bank, regardless of which fiat ponzi they live under. 

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/bailment

http://fadyart.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=126&Itemid=75&showall=1

 

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:45 | 3366396 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

instead of "that" website

That website really has no business pontificating on the ramifications of 19th century contract disputes without putting them in proper context,

would you be more comfortable with this website that puts it in proper context? http://tinyurl.com/cner4my

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 17:02 | 3366531 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Actually the Mises Institute also FAILS MISERABLY to put it proper context.  It's a good idea, but they are just reiterating the bullet points and thowing in the "Austrian" in few times to rile up their organ grinders.

We are where we are.  And there are ceratin things that might help get us to a better place.  Most people these days are some devolved form of lower primate who can't (or won't) understand what text of an FSA means, much less how we got to where we are.  

I hope you don't actually trust a majority of banker bitch wanker MPs not to actually screw things up even more because of the way in which the final text of any law actually modifies the bailment relationship... It's not there aren't an army of lawyers on the banker payroll in the City, and they don't mix socially every day already.

When a bailment for mutual benefit gets the "safe" easy button check box codified into law for the protection of the banks- which Austrian idiot's head should I send for?

This get's back to the simplest notions and earliest history of banking (which a shocking number of MBA branded wannabe bankers can't even articulate)- When does a bank pay or charge interest, and why does a bank pay or charge interest?

Then move on to bailments vs loans as a mechanism/contractual basis of bank "deposits"  But if sheeple don't understand the game the bankers are going to try and play with their pet MPs, then the INEVITABLE result will be that your future LOAN to a British Bank will be marked safe and they can still do unsafe things with it...  See Dodd-Frank for US analogy.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 23:53 | 3367587 socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

So do you disagree with what Rothbard wrote in The Mystery of Banking ?

(starts on pdf page 114, numbered page 91)

"Because deposit banking law was in even worse shape than overall warehouse law and moved in the opposite direction to declare money deposits not a bailment but a debt...

The first fateful case was decided in 1811, in Carr v. Carr. The court had to decide whether the term “debts” mentioned in a will included a cash balance in a bank deposit account. Unfortunately, Master of the Rolls Sir William Grant ruled that it did. Grant  maintained that since the money had been paid generally into the bank, and was not earmarked in a sealed bag, it had become a loan rather than a bailment...

Thus, the banks, in this astonishing decision [Foley v. Hill and Others], were given carte blanche. Despite the fact that the money, as Lord Cottenham conceded, was “placed in the custody of the banker,” he can do virtually anything with it, and if he cannot meet his contractual obligations he is only a legitimate insolvent instead of an embezzler and a thief who has been caught red-handed..."

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 12:04 | 3368530 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

I don't entirely disagree with what Rothbard writes until numbered page 103, when he goes full retard as he writes, “Under the pure gold standard, there is virtually no way that the money supply can actually decline” (The impossibility of “inflation” under a pure-gold standard is subject to a much hair-splitting over definitions).

For any bank “deposit” there are three critical sources of “governance” – 1) the specific terms of the contract between between the parties, 2) the governing law of the contract itself, in the case of a UK bank account English Law including common law precedent, and 3) the applicable statutory and regulatory law, in the case of a UK bank account English Law and BoE & FSA regulations.

In every distinct banking jurisdiction the same paradigm exists, with a potentially different contract, statutory and regulatory framework. To keep things simple (in terms of rectifying the shortcomings present in the 21st century) we can break the world into common law and civil law traditions and ignore Islamic, Hindu, and Chinese traditions, but these same framework issues have applied since Jesus was preaching the evils the money-changers operating under Talmudic Law.

The troubling ratio of financial debt to GDP in the UK is a function of its role as a banking center. However, this ratio can be fixed relatively simply by moving the banking somewhere else... (the consequences for residents of the UK, however, would not be so simply fixed). What Rothbard doesn't appear to delve too deeply into was the underlying cause of the rise of the use of notes in the first place-- TRADE and the movement of money, (since the UK is literally an island- it is slightly less relevant when focusing strictly on England, as opposed to the Italian city-states or the Crusade Highway).

Modern civilization demands the consumption of three things in order to exist – water, food and energy. So the rephrase and extend Rothbard, in order for the money supply to not actually decline under a pure gold standard, TRADE must balance. The definition of “inflation” is clearly debatable, but if it is reduced to a constant amount of work/wages being able to purchase fewer and fewer goods and services- then trade a negative trade balance under a pure gold standard would be highly “inflationary.” The land-owning oil sheikhs (whether their traditional headdress is a keffiyeh or ten-gallon hat) would be the beneficiaries of trade imbalance, just as the land-owning Feudal lords of England benefited from the labor of their tenant serfs.

In an age when the masses whine about the disparate wealth of the 1% (or debate Gini coefficients in more erudite circles) – personal actualization of the allocation of scarce monetary resources to a hierarchy of needs would be uncomfortable to the point of destabilization on a societal level.

Money is, FIRST AND FOREMOST, a medium of exchange. When gold is money, is it equally a medium of exchange and a store of wealth. However, with a fixed quantity of medium of exchange, there is only a fixed quantity of trade available to meet the needs and desires of the masses, and that quantity is dependent on the will and whims of wealthy for facilitation of economic activity.

So to get back to bailment and when a bank pays vs. receives interest- if a depositor seeks an iron-clad guarantee of a return OF their capital then they are buying a service and guarantee from the bailee and they will pay for it, whereas if a depositor seeks a lesser promise of a return ON their capital then they are “renting” the use of their capital to the bailee (or bank borrower depending on specific circumstance) and the will be compensated for it with interest (rent).

With a closed deposit (bailment for the sole benefit of the bailor) that deposit CANNOT be put to productive economic use without fraudulent activity on the part of the bailee.

So under a pure gold standard there an absolute guarantee of an effective reduction of the money supply, absent a proper balance of trade a payment (interest/rent) to the rentier class to let their gold “particpate” in the money supply.

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 12:38 | 3368637 socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

Thanks, I didn't get to page 103 since I don't see a gold standard happening in the forseeable future, will take a look at it though.

I think I may now understand what you've been saying: you agree that a depositor at a bank is an unsecured creditor, but that shouldn't surprise him and is not unjust since he's not paying for the privledge of safekeeping, and is actually receiving money in the form of interest.

BTW, do you follow what this article was talking about as asked here ?

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 13:32 | 3368823 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

A depositor at a bank is A CREDITOR of the bank, their seniority, however, would depend on the specific terms of their account contract.  However, under no circumstances would a depositor be in a junior position to an equity or bond holder (unless a publicly published bond prospectus explicitly stated that a holder of these bonds would have seniority over depositors, and depository agreement on the account disclosed that their position may be junior to certain bond holders). 

However, if you look at the structure of most banks' deposit bases- a significant percentage of deposits are in non-interest bearing accounts.  This is the big "grey area" that the bank's lawyers and lobbyists would be most concerned with, because if there is a move towards blanket reclassification as a bailment (as opposed to a fee based opt-in) then the banks are immediately insolvent-- as their primary capitalization is removed from their balance sheet by statute, and the State will never let that happen- so unless the proponents of a proposed law to deal with seniority also explicitly address the capitalization issue (at 10% capitalization a 10% reduction in the deposit base is insolvent) - I would view it a either as an honest effort by the naive destined to fail, or a subterfuge by TPTB seeking to further enrich themselves.

There are currently "options" for bailment accounts in the US, UK and elsewhere (albeit fewer and fewer each year).  But a systemic solution is extremely complex given the number of jurisdictions involved if one wants to avoid just driving business elsewhere, or making the rich richer and the poor poorer.

 

 

As to that article, I took somewhat the same position as Mark Grant, but I don't have hard data to prove or disprove that what I simply said was "elsewhere" is actually the ECB.  Someone with access to Euroclear data would be able to quantify the scale and (hypothecated) source of the ripple (tidal wave) in the event of a haircut to bondholders, but I don't think anyone in the know wants to publish that sort of analysis.

That often large percentage of the deposit base in non-interest bearing accounts is also the most likely to commence a bank run and trigger a freeze in the wholesale funding markets which lead to financial Armageddon and/or ludicrous speed money printing.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-23/cyprus-deposit-levy-vote-delaye...

 

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:40 | 3366377 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

What ever happened to Debtors' Prisons?

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 18:39 | 3366959 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

They changed the name. It's now called planet Earth.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:40 | 3366381 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

this:

The money paid into a banker’s is money known by the principal to be placed there for the purpose of being under the control of the banker; it is then the banker’s money;

is very consistent with this: http://tinyurl.com/cner4my

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 18:27 | 3366905 GeoffreyT
GeoffreyT's picture

The first 2/3rd of the ruling is not controversial - all it means is that the depositor can not force the bank to deploy the money in specific ways (unless there are specific terms in the deposit contract that are specified and are enforceable at law). The bank gets to use the money as if it was their own, in other words.

The very last bit of the ruling is the 'sting in the tail', since it refuses to view the relationship as one of agency: that means that if a bank goes 'phut', depositors are just part of the list of unsecured creditors (and in the modern world, have precedence lower than tax debts, secured creditors and possibly employee entitlements).

In other words: when you deposit your salary into the bank, you are making an unsecured loan to the bank (which is obvious once you think about it: if it was secured, why would there be a need for FDIC deposit insurance?).

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:03 | 3366263 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

It's all over German news sources, but only PressTV (Iranian mouthpiece) and a Nigerian website are reporting it in English right now:

Head of Orthodox Church in Cyprus favors leaving eurozone

...

The Orthodox Church is the largest landowner in Cyprus and has stakes in a wide range of businesses, including in the country's Hellenic Bank, with total assets estimated to run into tens of millions of euros.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/03/23/294906/cyprus-mighty-church-favo...

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:03 | 3366264 UK debt marsh
UK debt marsh's picture

There are only hard choices left ....for Europe, for Japan, for the USA.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:04 | 3366268 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

This article was posted by another ZH reader (forgot who - sorry!) - absolutely fantastic and worth the read regarding all things Cyprus and how the "vote" might turn out.

 

http://synonblog.dailymail.co.uk/2013/03/the-new-soviet-union-cyprus-sho...

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:08 | 3366281 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Vladimir Bukovsky has been saying this for years:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOeEZaTjAjw

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:26 | 3366344 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

Fantastic video! And so sad that less than 2000 people have viewed it...

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 18:01 | 3366834 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

Video SOUNDS good... however, who TF is this this guy and how do we know what he is really saying.  I am not a Russian lip reader and who knows if the english translated dub is correct.

(I say this for all translated video clips on news channels, youtube, etc)

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:11 | 3366300 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

I forgot to add that if this article is true, it appears that there are bad things in store for Cyprus... unless they pull an Iceland. (In which there will be more bad things in store but they'll probably be better off in the long run)

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:23 | 3366510 Koffieshop
Koffieshop's picture

Dude, they can NOT pull an Iceland because they are not the masters of their own currency.
Either they (help) crash the EMU or they will continue to sink into the shit pool slowly, along the other EMU nations.

The whole thing is so utterly fucked up exactly BECAUSE they can not do a semi-orderly bankruptcy, like Iceland did.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:05 | 3366271 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Why is the troika so massively opposed to "plans to nationalize pension funds"?

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:07 | 3366279 UK debt marsh
UK debt marsh's picture

They will get the blame!

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:08 | 3366283 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

And the deposit confiscation will not be blamed on them?

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:19 | 3366325 Telemakhos
Telemakhos's picture

Because the Troika, as bankers at heart, see pension funds as liabilities that must be paid, while they know the governments see them as assets to be raided and spent. After all, why else would a regime want to nationalize a pension fund? Every now and then the Troika has the common interest in view, or else they're at least provident enough to foresee having to try to bailout the soon-to-be-raided pension funds and would like to save themselves that headache.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:56 | 3366392 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Pension Funds are currently managed (and leveraged, hypothecated, rehypothecated, etc) buy BANKERS, who use the lucrative fees to supply the copius cash for the large bonuses that fund their bitchez & blow binges....

It's a ponzi scheme, you're not allowed to make significant withdrawals or there might be a Madoff-like event on a systemic scale...

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:07 | 3366274 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Nice to know that gold and silver owners do not have to be bailed out.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:09 | 3366289 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

A very interesting comment considering the amount of talking we do here about metal. It DOES appear that if you lived in Cyprus and were holding gold or silver IN YOUR POSSESSION or anything else of value in your possession, you'd be in a better place than your neighbors now.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:20 | 3366326 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

No, I have never lived in Cyprus but have many contacts there and in Greece who I started warning in 2006. Back then they thought I was crazy. Today........they know I was right and for me it is a tragedy to see friends suffer.

In the process we will all suffer either unwillingly or willingly either because circumstances will penalise us or because we will not remain aloof to the suffering of those around us in which case we will come to people's assistance to the extent that we can.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 18:50 | 3366993 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

From what I've read here at Zero Hedge, there has been a lot of bailing of canoes full of the PMs.  But, as the old nautical saying goes "the bailing stops when the swimming starts".  Au, c'est la vie - RIP.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:07 | 3366278 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

There will be an anouncement of Cypress "leaving the Euro" followed by a ECB/IMF announcement that Cypress has an "agreement" (WTF that is) for funding, keeping it in the Euro.

Tuesday there should be MASSIVE BANK RUNS.

If not, FUCK the stupid Europeans who have any money left in any EU bank.

ENJOY THE LOSS.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:17 | 3366313 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Anglo-American style bank runs on the continent are a AA-prejudice - different conditions here - just have a look at Target2 balances

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:09 | 3366291 forrestdweller
forrestdweller's picture

bank run next week.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:09 | 3366292 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I find it very depressing that Ollie Rehn is not a Russian oligarch looking over his shoulder.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:16 | 3366312 Brit_Abroad
Brit_Abroad's picture

I find it very depressing that Olli Rehn is not pushing up daisies.....there fixed it for you.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:29 | 3366356 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Thanks. What you said! I'm already on enough databases.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:17 | 3366320 allocater
allocater's picture

I support a 20% cut to everything above €100,000.

 

In fact the correct way to handle it, is a 100% cut on everything above €100,000, because that is exactly what happens, when the bank goes bankrupt and you are not insured. But no, the nanny-state governments pays rich people 80%, so they don't cry.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:50 | 3366403 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Just because you are a dumbass and don't have any money in the bank, doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer for your bad choices in life.  Most people have money in the bank that they earned working for a living ( and paid their taxes on it), and are trying to save some of that earnings power for either retirement or for something in the future.  They didn't put their money in the bank to invest in it (at least they didn't do it knowingly).  They put it there for safekeeping.  I don't owe the bank one thin dime.  In fact, they owe ME for me keeping my money there(not so much anymore).

All a deposit levy is is another tax on earnings you have already paid taxes on.  Its like a future tax that you will have to pay on past earnings.  Well the future is now.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:11 | 3366471 allocater
allocater's picture

TLDR "My bank went bankrupt, I want to be bailed out by the government" Welcome to the free market, where banks fail, higher ROI means higher risk and uninsured money disappears.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 18:53 | 3367018 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

It appears that putting money in the bank may be one of those "bad choices" you mention.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 18:34 | 3366943 GeoffreyT
GeoffreyT's picture

Then you're not thinking very hard.

What of folks who just had the proceeds of a new line of credit deposited? I know of one Cypriot whose mortgage funding - 400k euro - was deposited into his account a day and a half before the freeze. If he gets an X% haircut, he will not be forgiven X% of his mortgage debt.

Second: not all Cypriot banks are insolvent, but account holders at all Cypriot banks will be affected.

Think harder. The only thing that you could possibly have said that was stupider and more shallow, was "It's all Russian mafia money - fuck 'em." The mainswamp focus-grouped the idea of trying to float that duck in the first 48 hours, and it failed.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:30 | 3366337 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Interesting take from Dr. Paul Craig Roberts interview @ KWN today:

 

“Well, if they get away with it, if the people accept it, they are being reenserfed (or enslaved). People are becoming serfs again. They exist for the purposes of that state.  

So I’m all in favor of the Cypriots to take to the streets, and to whatever level of violence they need take it to.  Democracy is a human achievement.  It took centuries.  So why should we just let it go away because there is a banking crisis?” -- Dr. Paul Craig Roberts,  former US Treasury Official, KWN, March 23, 2013

 

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/3/23_Fo...

 

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:25 | 3366346 Joe moneybags
Joe moneybags's picture

Cyprus leaving the EU woud be good for the EU in the long run.  It would demonstrate the EU is flexible enough to both admit and expel members should the situation warrant.  It gets past the "sets a precedent" thingy.  Then, even Greece could be jettisoned, and the contagion issue would be shown as an problem which is solvable without a complete destruction of the whole system.  Political systems do this stuff all of the time.  Even Russia came out of the USSR breakup in good shape, which was a much larger crisis than the debt crisis in Cyprus.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:40 | 3366375 WineSorbet
WineSorbet's picture

I've been devoted reader of ZH for three years now and one the one thing I've learned over the past three years is that whatever the crisis, it will be "printed over" so just BTFD! 

Of course there will be one event that will be the straw that breaks the proverbial's camel back.  But once that event comes to fruitition, I have a feeling what you have in savings won't really matter anymore. 

Therefore just keep buying and enjoying until it all ends in tears.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:42 | 3366378 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

and the Cypriots have dropped plans to nationalize pension funds

Nope... it passed parliament yesterday...

Folks... you missed something. Yesterday, the Cyprus parliament NATIONALIZED STATE PENSIONS... Tomorrow they will vote to confiscate money... doesn't that tell you something?? The government is STEALING money from the little people to give TO THEMSELVES.

They are telling themselves... as long as the governments thugs and their pensions are safe, the cops and bureaucrats will stay loyal to the state, no matter how bad it gets for the rest of the population... it will stay in the euro... Me thinks this whole scheme was planned for at the ECB... they want to do anything to keep everyone in the Euro... no matter what.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:46 | 3366401 d_taco
d_taco's picture

Cyprus is not relevant for Euro. No one I spoke, get nervouse because of Cyprus. Dutch leading popular newspaper it is not even at the front page today

Euro shorts already burned.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:12 | 3366472 PUD
PUD's picture

The solution will be whatever it takes to see the es futures up 20 handles before the all important asian markets open....been there done that

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:26 | 3366522 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Do it. Man up and haircut 70% of that money... for the lulz... then the whole EU will go kaboooooooooooom... and a few heads will be cut off, KGB style...

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 20:23 | 3367235 W74
W74's picture

Death by Polonium.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:27 | 3366525 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Monti Hall...Lets Make A Cyprus Deal!

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:41 | 3366568 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

This all sounds like a 16 year old boy trying to press a 16 year old girl that the time for sex is right now and not later and that his pecker is going to explode and kill him if she doesn't take the plunger immediately to ease their intense suffering and that everything will be right in the end and if they have time can he have it in the end too?   

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 17:15 | 3366671 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

BREAKING ... deal blocked by IMF

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 07:09 | 3367858 adonisdemilo
adonisdemilo's picture

The solution to the problem will become obvious to Cyprus if they were to arrange a meeting with Iceland.

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