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Texas Wants Its Gold Back From The Fed

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Michael Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,

Texas Moves to Repatriate its Gold from the Federal Reserve

This is one of the most interesting stories I have read regarding the precious metals market in quite some time.  It appears that Texas Rep. Giovanni Capriglione has a bill in play that would move the state’s gold from New York (where its under the “safekeeping” of the ultra shady Federal Reserve) to a depository within the state of Texas itself.  The reason this would be such a big deal if it happens, is because a lot of the gold bought and sold globally is not very likely not actually owned by those that “buy” it.  From my perspective, pretty much the only countries that actually buy gold and bring it within their borders are China, Russia and Iran.  Most other nations that claim they “bought” gold, most likely hold a certificate that states they have gold in London or New York.  So in other words, they have no gold.  It looks like Texas is wising up.

From the Star-Telegram:

Freshman Rep. Giovanni Capriglione, R-Southlake, is carrying a bill that would establish the Texas Bullion Depository, a secure state-based bank to house $1 billion worth of gold bars owned by the University of Texas Investment Management Co., or UTIMCO, and stored by the Federal Reserve.


“If you think gold is a hedge, or a protection, you always want it as close to the individual and the entity as possible,” Paul told The Texas Tribune on Thursday.” Texas is better served if it knows exactly where the gold is rather than depending on the security of the Federal Reserve.”

You’ve gotta love Ron Paul.  The guy is still raising hell even after he left Congress.

The highly political Governor also appears to be on board…

“If we own it,” Perry said, “I will suggest to you that that’s not someone else’s determination whether we can take possession of it back or not.”


“We don’t want just the certificates. We want our gold. And if you’re the state of Texas, you should be able to get your gold.”


Come on Rick, that sounds like terrorist talk.

The United States and many other countries stopped pegging their currencies to the gold standard decades ago. Capriglione said the bill is not about putting Texas on its own gold standard. Rather, a depository would give the state a reputation as being more financially secure in the event of a financial crisis.


Transporting gold from New York City or other banks to Texas would be impractical from a security and logistics standpoint, Capriglione said.


Ok, that’s just weird.  Gold is shipped all over the world every single day.  This isn’t even an international shipment.  My guess is that the Fed has already made it clear they will not be sending any gold to Texas.

He believes that it makes more sense to sell the gold that Texas has elsewhere and repurchase it within state lines.


He said the measure wouldn’t pose a significant expense, because the gold bars could be safeguarded in a small area, no bigger than 20 square feet.


Again, if that’s all it is what’s so hard about shipping it?


Such a bill might not divide lawmakers strictly along party lines. Sen. Rodney Ellis, D-Houston, called it “an interesting concept” but said he wants to learn more about it and talk to “colleagues in the financial industry” before weighing in on its merits.

Great idea Rodney, because taking advice from Wall Street leads to such favorable outcomes.Full article here.


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Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:30 | 3365657 ihedgemyhedges
ihedgemyhedges's picture

You can't have it.


Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:32 | 3365669 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

Lets put you on the 7 year plan...



Uncle Ben.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:35 | 3365677 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

All my "EX'es [gold bars] live in Texas"...

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:41 | 3365689 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Texas says...


Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:41 | 3365705 NewThor
NewThor's picture

I love living and loving in Texas.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:42 | 3365713 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Texas may have a very cold winter next year...

Oh wait..., nevermind.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:47 | 3365722 SimplePrinciple
SimplePrinciple's picture

No need.  The "thieves" will have stolen the shipment and replaced it with Tungsten before it arrives.  "We told you that transporting gold would be dangerous."

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:30 | 3365906 NewThor
NewThor's picture

Would Texas be able to apply that Gold to the 1/50th part of the national debt that is their responsibility?

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:38 | 3365949 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Money is debt, gold is money

Who would you trust with your gold?

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:40 | 3365959 mrdenis
Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:55 | 3366024 FranSix
FranSix's picture

Give the gold bars to Texas, they'll lose it in a boating accident.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:03 | 3366058 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

or lose it on the way to Texas........    wait, how many large bodies of water between NY and Texas?     Maybe they'd ship it via the Atlantic and Carribean just ot have the opportunity....Pirates maybe?

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:41 | 3366183 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Yippee kay ay, muthafuckaz.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:09 | 3366288 NewThor
NewThor's picture


That's a sore spot for you fellas?

Sorry. I forget sometimes you Bugs can be

more serious 

than a one fingered Baptist.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:22 | 3366317 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Why would you want to store it in Texas?

Once the endless hordes of hispanic zombies have achieved reconquista for "La Raza" and the Aztlan empire they'll just move the gold to Mexico City as tribute from the conquered land.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:31 | 3366359 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Rick should stay away from those grassy knolls down there.

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 03:58 | 3367768 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

...and that book suppository building.

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 06:49 | 3367843 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

That's where the manual on fair play comes from. The one that Texas shoves up Bernank's ass.

Mon, 03/25/2013 - 13:04 | 3372899 bernorange
bernorange's picture

Rep. Giovanni Capriglione's bill (HB 3505) has a flaw in it:

"Sec. 2116.005 (f)
Precious metal deposited with the depository by any person is the property of this state and is held by the depository outside the state treasury. On withdrawal and settlement, the precious metals become the property of the depository account holder."

I sent a letter (email) to his office about it. 

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:42 | 3365964 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Would Texas be able to apply that Gold to the 1/50th part of the national debt that is their responsibility?

We do not owe a dime to them, they made all the crappy decisions, so it's their bed and they can lie in it.

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 10:54 | 3366801 Ag Tex
Ag Tex's picture

Exactly!  In Texas, we love God (Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior) and His Word, family, guns (primarily glocks and AR's, followed by deer rifles, shotguns, and barbeque guns), our great state and the United States of America.  Y'all come on down and bring your bibles and manners. 


Magpul and Colt, unplug, pack up shop and head south.  We welcome you!


We also love our governor but sometimes have no clue as to what he's talking about. ;-)

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 17:10 | 3366647 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

No, they'll create a new currency backed by gold, then send all of their FRN toilet paper back home, giving the finger to legal-tender laws....and I don't mean the middle one, I mean the trigger one.  

In fact, since all American debt is worthless fiat, let's send it all back, pay off the debt, close down The Fed, create a new gold-backed currency and experiment with some good ol' fashion fucking freedom?  

Oh shit, I almost forgot to down-arrow you.......

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 17:40 | 3366758 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

It wouldn't help, much. If the idiots secede, the Federal Reserve will credit their gold at $42 an ounce towards their share of the national debt.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 21:41 | 3367410 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

or they can sell their gold on the open market and let the rest of the idiots deal with the other 49/50th of the debt created by ben shalom. better to get on the lifeboat than stay on the titanic. 

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 00:27 | 3367645 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

What would interest rates be on texas as a country?  Cuba took the liferaft.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 19:04 | 3367041 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Hey sound about as smart as a frozen FruitLoop.


And I guarantee that I we evey met,you you have more than one NewThor....

You would be ThorAllOver.

You fucking Idiot.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 21:49 | 3367428 Eternal Complainer
Eternal Complainer's picture

Can't they just pledge some worthless iou's( bonds)..
..everybody's doing it.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:42 | 3365965 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

A bit OT, but talking about wanting something valuable back:  

Man Drank $102,000 Worth Of Vintage Whiskey  

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 19:03 | 3367043 nmewn
nmewn's picture

It appears the handyman unilaterally renegotiated the terms of his contract.

Maybe he's european ;-)

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 19:15 | 3367055 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Hey KrispKritter, If I drank $102.000 worth of vintage whiskey of some elses,I would have No trouble giving it back.

Might have a few pieces of potato and/or carrots and a piece of steak in it though.....

But hey,.....I wouldn't charge them for the free food.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:42 | 3365708 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Oh and if TX ever secedes, you can bet your bottom dollar that I'll be moving there! Go Texas!

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:48 | 3365731 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Capital controls and border controls might say otherwise if that happens.  You might want to think about moving up your timeframe.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:00 | 3365759 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I disagree.  I agree w/ Troll Magnet that Texas would become seen as a bastion of liberty and sanity should they buy gold and secede.  Texas could survive on it own without the USA.  The more important question: could the USA survive without Texas?


Texas could always buy gold, slowly, on the open market.

And while I am here talking gold, here is my story on PM diversification for individuals:

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:07 | 3365804 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Loved Texas when I visited but I'm told that their property tax is ridiculously high. Higher than Cali.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:24 | 3365867 DosZap
DosZap's picture

I'm told that their property tax is ridiculously high. Higher than Cali.


BS, we have no state income tax either.(everything is FAR less expensive in Texas than Californicatia.)

We even have a balanced state budget and a 16 Billion $$$ Reserve Fund surplus.

Why?,the legislature only meets every 2yrs.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:58 | 3366034 BC6
BC6's picture

I was you about 10 years ago TM. I moved from CA to TX about 7 years ago. 

The property taxes are higher than CA, but the nominal house value in TX is considerably lower in TX than CA.

So, assume a 3% property tax, which is the average on a 300K home, which is quite a home here - at least 4bd/3ba. That is a 9K tax bill.

In CA, that 300K home is at least 800K and that is being generous. Also the CA home is likely a 2bd or 3bd/2b. The max is 1% of the assessed value. So, 1% of 800K is 8K.

Essentially, the property taxes are the same.

As you already know, there are no state income taxes in TX, so in moving to TX, you automatically gave yourself a 9.3% (today) raise. When I left in 2006, it was a 7% raise and it was significant.

Boy, I would like to see the same from being able to opt out of SSN and SDI, etc.

What is more expensive in TX is electricity. You need it for the summers and the winters. Average rates will run you about $250-300 on that big 4bd house, less for a smaller residence. Whereas in CA, your typical central air and heat is your windows and slider doors.

The people in TX are more genunine as most were raised with Christian values and to show repect for others.

The only thing I miss sometimes is the weather in CA, but it's so minor b/c TX also has nice weather and it has actual seasons. If someone says to me, but in CA, you can go to the beach one day and the mountain resorts the next day, I laugh because the water is cold and brackish and there's always some "accidental"  sewage discharge. The mountains (Big Bear, Arrowhead) are beautiful, but are packed to the gills with what the locals there call lowlanders.

Anyways, I'm sure we'll be seeing you soon. TX is seeing approx. net +700 ppl arrive in the state every day.


Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:43 | 3366191 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

yeah that makes sense when you put it that way.

and cali's prop tax isn't 1% max. this year i'm paying 1.3%. i could really use that $ to stack instead. fuckers...

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:54 | 3366237 PoliticalRefuge...
PoliticalRefugeefromCalif.'s picture

Don't forget about the small matter of a future glo in the dark coastline thanks to Japan's nuclear program, so far Texas doesn't have that looming issue.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:29 | 3366358 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

A lot depends upon where you live. Property taxes in dense urban areas are always going to be higher.

Someone has to pay for the education of children of illegal immigrants that come to Texas and squeeze out kids faster than a cockroach.

The same thing that happened to Southern California is also happening to Texas.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 21:45 | 3367417 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

If you live in the Houston area along the coast, there is no winter except for 4-5 days. All you need is AC for the summer. Even in the Austin-San Antonio region, the winters are mild. 

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:01 | 3366054 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture



They are lower than anywhere i have found.

If you live in a large city obviously they're going to be higher because of schools.

Smaller towns and communities are much lower. And i mean 50% lower..

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:26 | 3366139 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Suggest you try in the north and west of Texas, outisde of large cities.  I live in the county, four blocks from the city, and my taxes are ridiculously low, like 1% on a valuation that is about 40% of the actual value.

But maybe I'm just lucky.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:43 | 3366167 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Texas still allows homesteading, doesn't it?

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:08 | 3366463 Rat Patrol
Rat Patrol's picture


Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:43 | 3366186 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture


Sat, 03/23/2013 - 18:37 | 3366953 fortune114
fortune114's picture

Property tax is controlled by counties, cities, and school districts, so the amount you pay varies wildly depending on where you live.  There is no property tax (that we pay, anyway) that is collected by the State.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 21:56 | 3367441 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

True. I pay 2.55% property tax on a 5 bdr/3 bth house I paid $175K in McKinney TX. It was rated the 2nd best place to live in the US by CNN Money in 2012.

In California I would probably pay $800K to live in a crappy city. 

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:22 | 3365863 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Im not disagreeing with Troll Magnet DoChen.  Im just saying, if you are going to move, you might want to do it sooner rather than later.  If the SHTF, you won't get to jump into your shiney new suburban with all of your gold and expatriate from the state you currently reside in and head for Texas.  Some states are already getting the idea that if you have made your wealth within their borders during your life, that when you die, they get a cut no matter where you live.  Just like the US won't let you renounce your citizenship and take your loot with you, the states will come to that conclusion sooner or later too.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:25 | 3365878 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Some states are already getting the idea that if you have made your wealth within their borders during your life, that when you die, they get a cut no matter where you live.

Heheheheh, trying to collect it will be a bitch.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:29 | 3365901 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

As long as its not in a bank you are correct.  Didn't California take some guys money that lived in Arizona a few years ago, because they said he owed them taxes and he actually didn't?  But because he had money in a Wells Fargo bank, they just confiscated it from his account.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:44 | 3365974 knukles
knukles's picture

Yes, that be troof.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:25 | 3366120 RopeADope
RopeADope's picture

California loves to commit tax fraud. Get a bunch of old addresses of former residences, mail tax bills to dead addresses, no obligation to notify to new out of state addresses,  bundle said tax 'assets' together as collateral for new general obligation bonds. Billions of CA tax assets are fake but wall street couldn't care less. Even IRS agents know this is what is happening because CA is in so much debt fraud is occurring. When asked if the IRS can stop this fraud they say, we can't do anything about these RICO violations.

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 11:20 | 3368408 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

Mail fraud

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:07 | 3366071 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Texas gets more FROM the Federal Government than it gives......     no doubt it could survive on its own BUT you'd see even lower educational standards and worse health care  (pretty bad on average now).    I expect in a climate getteing ever drier, Texas might have issues feeding itself in the long run.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:39 | 3366180 EINSILVERGUY

Maybe you have more up to date numbers but as of Feb 2012 Texas received .91 for every dollar sent to Washington

Our educational standards are bad but thats because of the impact of the illegals and the bilingual requirements. 1 of 3 hispanics drop out of school by the time they are 16.

the entire eduactional system sucks. Look at NY, Chicago and Detroit and Michelle Rhee got bounced out of DC.  Texas does not allow unions so it has opportunities to improve one we can stablilize the immigration.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:47 | 3366206 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

TX education standards can't be worse than CA.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 22:12 | 3367471 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Based on what numbers? Hopefully not some unsourced articled making claims it cannot back up. If you have hard source data, pleas put up the link- but not to some horseshit article that doesn't show where it gets its data.

As a point of reality almost all states receive far more than they send, its a flood of borrowed money sloshing around and yes, that includes Texas to the tune of 38 billion in 2010.

Total funds from Uncle Sugar per state, with breakdowns by category. FY2010 was the last year the CFFR was published (gooo transparency!) and I can't find any source for this information anymore, if someone has it please put it up:

Total paid in by state, from IRS:,-by-Type-of-Tax-and-State,-Fiscal-Year-IRS-Data-Book-Table-5

Look at the 2010 numbers, almost every state gets far more than it receives, Of course what it means is arguable- this includes retirement money, military and government salaries, etc. but as a point of fact only New Jersey and Minnesota pay in significantly more than they receive.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 21:07 | 3367342 The Duke of Skiatook
The Duke of Skiatook's picture

Please keep believing that bull shit skeptic.  I look forward to not seeing you around the Lone Star State.

Come and take it bitchez!

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 22:04 | 3367459 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Texas pays MORE to the federal government than it receives.......Clownifornia is home to 38% of the welfare recipients in the entire country. 

Texas ranks ABOVE Clownifornia in education. Nearly 80% of NYC public schools graduates have to take remedial math and English at community colleges.

I wonder how New York or Washington DC feeds themselves? Maybe they're importing food from other places? Well Texas has a long coastline with plenty of ports.

If you expenct a drier climate, maybe you should pay your carbon taxes to Al Gore.


Sat, 03/23/2013 - 22:06 | 3367462 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Texas pays MORE to the federal government than it receives.......Clownifornia is home to 38% of the welfare recipients in the entire country. 

Texas ranks ABOVE Clownifornia in education. Nearly 80% of NYC public schools graduates have to take remedial math and English at community colleges.

I wonder how New York or Washington DC feeds themselves? Maybe they're importing food from other places? Well Texas has a long coastline with plenty of ports.

If you expenct a drier climate, maybe you should pay your carbon taxes to Al Gore.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:19 | 3366324 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

you're missing the point here:

Texas could always buy gold, slowly, on the open market.

utimco already bought and owns the gold, they probably cannot secure it, so they lobby the state of texas

a secure state-based bank to house $1 billion worth of gold bars owned by the University of Texas Investment Management Co., or UTIMCO, and stored by the Federal Reserve.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:24 | 3366340 DosZap
DosZap's picture

The point is the 10th Amendment, and Texas holding it's own Gold,would have 100% jusrisdiction over it.

There are talks that they may even open it up to the public to safeguard their holdings,(details in the works).

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:47 | 3366209 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Beam Me Up Scotty

I read you wrong there, so I greened ya!

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 17:08 | 3366644 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Hope & Change - Chicago/Saudi Islamo-Kosher style.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:44 | 3365716 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Some folks think I'm hidin'
It's been rumored that I died
But I'm alive and well in ???

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 11:24 | 3368418 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture


Gotta love George

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:01 | 3365790 Tucson Tom
Tucson Tom's picture

Seven years? don`t forget you are now behind Switzerland too.Ant`t going to happen,as much as I love the thought.


i would like to hear Kyle Bass chime in on this. It was his idea to buy it and I am surprised they didn`t take possesion to start with.At least there is a good supply of lead there.


Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:21 | 3365856 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Very nice! More states and countries need to be demanding this. The farce will be over quickly as they don't have the gold and the price will go to it's unmanipulated value, which is much much higher.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:21 | 3366118 Matt
Matt's picture

If they all demand their specific bars back, they get nothing, or very little over several years. If they sell paper and buy physical elsewhere, they get the same quantity of gold as they "own" at the Fed. Plan B is much wiser.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:33 | 3365923 sunnydays
sunnydays's picture

Allowed to give us money for it, but can't ever actually get it.  That would be anarchy against the Fed.  Just trust in our having it for your safe keeping and we will give you that pretty little paper certificate that hangs on your wall saying you own it.   But physical.... Forget about it! 

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:54 | 3366017 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

The day someone shows that the Fed doesn't have all the gold it lays claim to is the day all the markets shut down and the whole tamala collapses.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:57 | 3366031 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Oh, rest assured we will collect..

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:38 | 3366178 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

Capriglione better grow eyes behind his head before he gets suicided

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 20:09 | 3367197 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

They don't have the gold, pure and simple.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:40 | 3365697 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

You should've thought of that before you let us have it.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:56 | 3365757 overbet
overbet's picture

University of Texas Investment Management Co

Doesnt Kyle Bass run their money? This is definately his work. That governor puppet is in good hands.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:45 | 3365980 knukles
knukles's picture

Yeah, he's on the investment committee.
I know where to hide it...

Bury it underneath all of Kyle's nickels.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:08 | 3365807 Croesus
Croesus's picture

Maybe Ben Shalom will offer them payment in Bitcoin

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:29 | 3366149 killallthefiat
killallthefiat's picture

Texas is going to get invaded in a year or two, like Libya.  Please let it be the French peacekeeping force though.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:41 | 3366185 EINSILVERGUY

Q. How many French does it take to defend Paris?

A.  None. its never been tried

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 09:33 | 3368069 gasmiinder
gasmiinder's picture

Texas will not be invaded for the same reason Switzerland has never been invaded. An armed populace which will refuse to submit.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:01 | 3366431 Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

Just sent letters off to my state representative and state senator. All Texans on Zero Hedge might want to do the same!

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 22:56 | 3367529 hivekiller
hivekiller's picture

Time to drone Texas.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:46 | 3365659 chunga
chunga's picture

The FED will say they had a boating accident.

[edit fuck you capt. bernanke]

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:57 | 3365768 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

The Fed will say Texas needs to be liberated and given democracy.*


*up the ass

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:04 | 3365797 BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

OK this is slightly OT... But...

Can someone explain the alure of American Eagles when they are only 91.6% pure compared to Buffalo coins or Canadian Maple Leaf coins etc which are 99.99% pure?

Seems crazzzzy to me that anyone would chose Eagles over Buffalos or Maples but they seem to be the most popular coins.

What am I missing?

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:07 | 3365808 Tinky
Tinky's picture


Need I say more?

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:45 | 3365978 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins are affordable investments, beautiful collectibles, thoughtful gifts and memorable incentives or rewards.  Above all, as legal tender, they're the only silver bullion coins whose weight and purity are guaranteed by the United States Government.  They're also the only silver coins allowed in an IRA.

Silver has historically been the most affordable precious metal.  Since 1986, the United States has minted one-dollar silver coins called "Silver Eagles."  Each contains a minimum of one troy ounce of 99.9% pure silver.


Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:47 | 3365990 DosZap
DosZap's picture

 They're also the only silver coins allowed in an IRA.

Not true,I own some that IS IRA allowed and it ain't Eagles.

Some of the rules have changed.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:55 | 3366023 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Yes, the .gov site is out of date on that. (surprise) The point of my comment was to correct the statement about the purity of the coin.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 17:19 | 3366678 BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

Yes and you also assumed I was talking about silver which I was not. The 91.6% purity I was asking about refers to the gold coins.

But I think I messed that up too :-)

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 19:28 | 3367095 nmewn
nmewn's picture

To your original question, its probably a "patriotism premium" still being had (and exchanged for) it is a beautiful coin as a work of art in itself...invoking timeless values always strived for.

For myself, I've always chosen Maples, since no one values those values anymore, why pay the premium is my thought.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:12 | 3365821 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

It's the whole "buy American" concept brought to you by organized labor.  As far as I'm concerned, Canadian silver is much better, and it's also conversely cheaper at my local coin dealers.  I can get Canadian Maple Leaf coins for a couple of bucks over spot, while American Eagles command upwards of $20 over spot.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:14 | 3365831 Croesus
Croesus's picture

Agreed: Personally, I think it's stupid to pay more for something, when you can get the same (or better), cheaper.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:47 | 3365991 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

Krugerand and Credit Suisse.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:19 | 3365848 DosZap
DosZap's picture

I can get Canadian Maple Leaf coins for a couple of bucks over spot, while American Eagles command upwards of $20 over spot.


You need a new dealer asap,your getting screwed royally.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:26 | 3365882 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

I'd only be getting screwed if I was buying American Eagles.  I buy the Maple Leaf coins for the reasons outlined above. ;)

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:16 | 3366102 ILikeBoats
ILikeBoats's picture

WHERE? Local coin shops are $60 or more over spot.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:22 | 3366334 Pseudo Anonym
Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:40 | 3366182 Mr. Magniloquent
Mr. Magniloquent's picture

I prefer Maples as well, though the 1oz. silver rounds sometimes have a white substance blemishing them. It's incredibly difficult to remove.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:06 | 3366452 Blano
Blano's picture

$20 over spot???  I've never heard of such a thing. 

Paid $3 over spot an hour ago, and the most I've ever paid over is $5.

I'm also a Texas transplant, been here a year now, best thing I've done in a long time.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 19:17 | 3367075 Obadiah
Obadiah's picture

Leafs are OK but I just cant stand the bitch on the backside

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:13 | 3365825 Croesus
Croesus's picture

It's all good....

Net weight is what counts, same with "general acceptance". Personally, I bought early, before the days of boating accidents. 

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:04 | 3366267 Matt
Matt's picture

American gold and silver coins are more scratch resistant; especially if you want numismatic value over time, they are safer to handle. Especially the gold, .9999 or .99999 you need to keep them in plastic, your fingernails can damage them, let alone other coins or anything metal.

The advantage to the high purity is that (at least in Canada) they qualify as a commodity, so there is no sales tax, whereas the American coins will have sales tax on them.

As for legal tender, I am pretty sure the Canadian coins are legal tender, and at a "better" face value at that; You can get an American one ounce silver dollar, face value $1 USD, or you can get a one ounce Canadian silver coin worth $5 CDN.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 15:45 | 3366387 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Sorry Wrong.

The advantage to the high purity is that (at least in Canada) they qualify as a commodity, so there is no sales tax, whereas the American coins will have sales tax on them.

No sales taxes are collected on Gold or Silver sales here.

But I agree the Mapes are a better value, simply because face value in CAD, is a better investment than USD.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 19:28 | 3367099 Matt
Matt's picture

Sourced from Scotia Macotta at:

Do I have to pay any sales tax or GST / HST?

Precious metals are exempt from GST / HST.

A precious metal is defined as a bar, ingot, coin or wafer of gold, silver or platinum, refined to a minimum purity of 99.50% in the case of gold and platinum, and 99.9% in the case of silver.

Gold, silver and platinum products are exempt from HST/GST. Palladium products are subject to HST/GST.

Provincial sales tax is applicable in certain provinces. Contact your Scotiabank branch for details. Sales tax is not payable on certificates.


Anything less is taxable. What province/ territory are you in, and where are you buying?

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 15:28 | 3369161 Jerk McGurken
Jerk McGurken's picture

Its a 10 minute drive for me to Kitco's offices, and while I'll have to check my paperwork, I'm pretty confident that all past silver purchases are free from the application of local PST as well.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:25 | 3365852 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Just proves that Americans are 8.3% more patriotic/stupid (delete to suit) than the rest of the world. Just kidding. 

The 1oz buffalo Is 99.9%. The difference is, the eagle was meant to be handled (and therefore made harder with impurities of cu & ag) and the buffalo was made for collectors/investors. 

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:26 | 3365881 Croesus
Croesus's picture

I'm not kidding.......I'm an American and I think most Americans are dumb as hell.

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 11:30 | 3368438 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

When you consider that half of the people are DUMBER than your AVERAGE person, and then consider how dumb the average person is.........

Sun, 03/24/2013 - 18:02 | 3369733 Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

Half the people are located above or below the MEDIAN.
You demonstrate his point exactly.... ;p

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:27 | 3365889 fourchan
fourchan's picture


Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:26 | 3365880 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Not sure of the accuracy on this but ran across it last week:

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:34 | 3365929 Croesus
Croesus's picture

+1, dude! The guy is absolutely right. If you can't hold it in your hands, you don't own it, simple as that.

If a confiscation, such as EO 6102 were ever to happen again, Govco would go after sizeable holdings like those found in ETF's. They represent substantial quantities, all sitting in one place.

Another point of consideration, vis a vis confiscation, is the fact that in 1933, we were still on the Gold standard, whereas today we are not. The difference being, gold's role in the US economy has changed.

Lastly, consider the fact that there are not a lot of private holdings in the US. I'm sure, in the aggregate there's tonnage, but it's impossible to know who has what, especially since so many of us seem to be plagued by boating accidents.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:38 | 3365948 DosZap
DosZap's picture

If a confiscation, such as EO 6102 were ever to happen again, Govco would go after sizeable holdings like those found in ETF's. They represent substantial quantities, all sitting in one place

ETF's???...........LOL, they hold diddly.

Just paper, dude just paper!

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:50 | 3366006 Croesus
Croesus's picture

I think they have some.....not what they claim, but then again, who does?

The point is, Govco would go after the easiest targets.....why go rabbit hunting, when there's bear around?

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:27 | 3365890 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

"Can someone explain the alure of American Eagles when they are only 91.6% pure compared to Buffalo coins or Canadian Maple Leaf coins etc which are 99.99% pure?"

Gold eagles weigh more than one troy ounce, because they are 22 karat.  Where buffalos and maples are 24 karat pure gold, but they only weigh 1 troy ounce.  Eagles are 1.0909 troy ounces, but still have 1 troy ounce of gold in them just like a buffalo or a maple.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:51 | 3366003 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

They're least in terms of weight and volume,  if not gold content.


Sadly, that explains it all.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:28 | 3365899 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Seems crazzzzy to me that anyone would chose Eagles over Buffalos or Maples but they seem to be the most popular coins.

What am I missing?

US coins are Legal Tender.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:33 | 3366008 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

That must be it.  We can always get 20 squishees for face value.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:47 | 3365989 knukles
knukles's picture

When you go to buy or sell them, you take the spot price times the weight, times the %age purity.
No difference.
With a tidge more alloy, the metal's harder, less susceptible to wear and tear.
All just your own preference.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:49 | 3366000 LostAtSea
LostAtSea's picture

IT still contains 1 oz of pure gold.  So the total weight of the coin is slightly more than 1 oz.  Other alloys are added to make the coin more robust.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:57 | 3366030 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

All sorts of reasons, but none of them good.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:46 | 3366195 EINSILVERGUY

Because they say USA on them and are the most widely known. The purity factor isn't as important. They both have 1 ounce of pure silver in them. It just means that the .9999 don't have as much of an alloy. 

wasn't paying attention that the thread was on gold vs silver. Same logic applies 



Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:29 | 3366483 Esso
Esso's picture

Reporting requirements for sales of PMs vary depending on the country of origin (IRS form 1099B). See Here:

Edit: Though none of that would really apply to ZHers. ZHers would need to check the laws regarding maritime salvage.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:30 | 3366530 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Reporting requirements for sales of PMs vary depending on the country of origin (IRS form 1099B). See Here:

I see this and I have never recieved a 1099B when sold.

Maybe because these are 25 coins at ONE time sold.(of same mfgr)

I do however include sales profit/loss on ALL transactions, no matter what coins on my tax returns.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:48 | 3366596 Esso
Esso's picture

I got whacked in the head with an oar when my boat flipped over. I don't even recall owning PMs. :)

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 21:13 | 3367355 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

I ask my local shop for maples every time I go in, and buy eagles when they say they have none.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 21:44 | 3367416 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

American Eagles weigh slightly MORE than 1Toz to make up the difference, so there's 1Toz of 24kt Au in one (plus Ag & Cu for hardening purposes).

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:31 | 3365660 nicoacademia
nicoacademia's picture

take it before they need it

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:31 | 3365661 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Everything is fine in the US.  Remain calm.  Nothing to worry about.  

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:49 | 3365740 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

These little intragovernmental squabbles that keep popping up between the federal government and the states don't exactly scream "united" to me.

I remember a prediction made by some Russian political scientist in (I think) the '90s, and he pretty much spelled out the way the US would "balkanize" into four or five separate entities. I thought it made sense then, and I think it makes even more sense now.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:14 | 3365829 seek
seek's picture

Seems pretty united to me, virtually all the squabbles are the states telling the federal government it's overstepped its authority.

Ultimately it's just revealing the truth: that the federal level government no longer represents the people.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:52 | 3366011 knukles
knukles's picture

Region 1   Upper East side ... Cadillac Commies
Region 2   Texas ... Yeah!
Region 3   San Fran and surrounding environs less Oakland renamed  Castroville ... Bend over.
Region 4   Florida ... Land of Geriatrics supported by illicit Oxycontin Exports
Region 5 - 7  LA  Chicago  Atlanta ... Self explanatory
Region 8   Detroit ... Used exclusively as film sets for post apocalyptic movies
Rest, TBD

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:59 | 3365782 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

;). I hear Texas is a hotbed of al queda activities. Expect predator drones and stealth choppers crashing into the governor's lawn.

On the other hand,  the Fed might see this as a good opportunity to stage a tungsten parade on main street to assure every citizen on food stamps that America is still rolling in gold (coloured bricks).

Nice gesture,  but that queue for getting any of your property from the central bank is getting longer by the minute. 

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:16 | 3365838 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

Also, we have a moral obligation to liberate the Texas slaves.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:36 | 3365939 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Yes we are, not Al Queerda, but see Janets list of WHAT constitutes a terrorist, and you will find 75% of Texans are on it.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:53 | 3366015 knukles
knukles's picture

Try 99.99% or ALL Humerkans

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:03 | 3366060 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Try 99.99% or ALL Humerkans

No, it really applies only to WHITE people.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:20 | 3366116 knukles
knukles's picture

Sorry, I forgot about all the others for a moment.
Back to diversity and sensitivity training, Knuks

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:55 | 3366020 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

+1 I am beginning to like the sound of Texas, which for the past decade or so was soured somewhat by someone called pubes in the WH. As for Janet's list, I think we all qualify these days mate. 

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 14:48 | 3366219 EINSILVERGUY

Bush and his Daddy like to pass themselves off but they ain't. They are carpetbagging blue blood progressives and the reason I'm no longer a republican. Screw that paradigm. You are either a constitutionalist or not.  And Screw Karl Rove too

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 22:18 | 3367482 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Seriously, they are Connecticut assholes in cowboy hats. Putting a New England businessman on a ranch doesn't change what they are.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 16:06 | 3366447 Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

You want a list of gun owners in our town? Just use the phone book - it's probably a lot better list than the fed has!



If at first you don't secede, try, try again!

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 22:26 | 3367497 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

This is true of the entire South. It's rare person (and usually a carpetbagger) that doesn't have at least one or two in the house, and home arsenals with large amounts of ammo are common.

And yeah, its gettin' to be about that time again...

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:32 | 3365664 Irelevant
Irelevant's picture

Civil war?

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:40 | 3365702 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Meh, they'll stall or scrounge up enough for Texas but we do get that much closer to seeing the empty vaults. They are awesome at delaying the inevitable.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 17:07 | 3366637 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Yep.  On that day Geraldo can host the TV Special showing the gold vaults.  It'll be just like when he opened up Capone's secret vault.


Sat, 03/23/2013 - 12:52 | 3365749 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Janet N of the Department of Homeland Security has millions of rounds of hollow point ammo to use for clamping down on the Texans.

Sat, 03/23/2013 - 13:00 | 3365783 PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

Texas has Billions if not Trillions of rounds for use if anyone tries to clamp down on anything.

"Dont bring a knife to a gunfight"

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