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Unsecured Depositors Of The World, Unite... And Get The Hell Out Of These Countries
Based on the most recent data, JPMorgan notes that the share of large or uninsured deposits is likely to be close to half of total deposits in the European Union. With deposits already flowing out of some of the peripheral EU nations...
we thought it appropriate to point out just which nations have the largest share of uninsured deposits (and are not yet under the ECB's 'standard of living' capital controls). It seems - among many others - that despite France throwing in the towel on the 75% income tax, there is another good reason for the wealthy to leave...
The only reason why Europe has been slow to impair its loans (as shown by the artificial rise in Italian and Spanish bad debt) over the past 4 years, is that a full representation of reality on the asset side (such as that which finally caught up with Cyprus) would lead to a dramatic collapse in balance sheet assets, requiring a comparable crunch on the liability side, where unsecured liabilities such as deposits would certainly take a big hit as well (especially if an equity cram up such as that of Citi is required to preserve the equity tranche).
Which is why the only thing preventing a "Cyprus-type event" from spreading to other nations is the gradual, determined bad debt impairment.
Of course, should there be a risk flaring event and banks are forced to remark bad debt to reality, what just happened in Cyprus will be a gentle breeze compared to what would come.
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You said the first graph, which is Eurozone.
Second graph - I dunno. I'd guess the page is only wide enough for the worst offenders.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVq4_HhBK8Y
Do you see Congo?
as per the last sentence re contagion...not sure how europe is different from the loans on US banks books that have not been marked to market for five years?
or japan, where the zombie banks have infected zombie corporates for 20 years..
still, a failure to properly account for assets is exactly that, no matter what the regional domicile.
the politicians and their agents, the central banks, continue to believe that market valuations are inappropriate for their agendas and the performance of an overall economy.
after all, it is way too easy to see where the bad building blocks are, in a micro sense.
these bad building blocks are all government sponsored, owned or "forgiven" criminal enterprises and simply infect the good building blocks that produce prosperity.
try telling a politician that despite their best intentions, their actions can only ever lead to poverty, hubris and the demotivation of the "good",
I have an idea.
Since you can't mark to market because it'll show the banks are insolvent, raise the market through asset inflation by pumping trillions in.
Oh...nevermind.
heh..i think there is a job of the fed board of governors for you!
check out MT!!!!!! looks like cyrpus, smells like cyprus and is ....not cyrpus!
here are the country codes
http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/index_en.htm
what is a non-eligible depost? non-eligible for insurance, i.e. a bank/corporate lending to another bank/corporate, in size?
ponders what the size of non bank intermediated direct corporate to corporate lending is...
Yeah, it would be too bad if they had to mark anything to reality. Like we all have to.
Things are hopping in the geopolitical world and there ain't been a peep out of Stratfor. Something must be up.
it's just digits....bitchez
Just had lunch with my Mother and explained the situation with her. She is pulling all but necessary cash out of her accounts. I already have here in the states.
She said what happens if the house burns down? I laughed and said, "I doubt the fire will get hot enough to melt your silver bullion". She gave me a smile of relief.
you can get fire proof safes too, for a few hundred bucks, or less at wal-mart, if you are ok with shitty guarantees
Thx. I might run over to Costco, and pick one up for her, just to 'cement' the commitment. I'm taking her to the coin shop early next week. She has been doing a good job of stocking up on food and water(potable) filtration.
OK, I'll go to "Wall Morgue" for fucks sake.
lowes has a decent safe for $108
Order from Amazon and they'll ship for free. One of their biggest loss leaders.
lowes has a decent safe for $108
One should look at the value/worth your placing in a safe, before purhasing same.
You get what you pay for with safes.
What's the view on safe deposit boxes vs. a safe?
What's the view on safe deposit boxes vs. a safe?
A safe is in your dwelling,and under your control.
A SDB is not under your control, and the contents are not insured,and is subject to seizure.
And so is your safe,so I suggest fireproof bags, and PVC tubes sealed and located only where you know where they are.
Worthy of a read:
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/3/23_Si...
taken from the site:
“What they haven’t decided on is whether or not a depositor in a bank is a lender to the bank. This would then define that the lender should assume the risk of the solvency of the bank. This would then mean that depositors should be contributors to the solvency of that bank when it is under great stress, such as what we are seeing right now in Cyprus.
The other alternative is whether the depositor has retained the services of a fiduciary when he places money with a bank. This would mean it is the banks responsibility at a all costs to protect the depositor against losses. If the bank runs into trouble, the depositor would have no legal obligation whatsoever to finance the bank.”
money on deposit at a bank is a loan to the bank; otherwise the bank could not offer sexy rates, as they did in cyprus.
interesting point that offering a guarantee of 100,000 implies that banks are not independent of the government for deposits under 100,000; ie that this portion of the banks deposit base is actually a borrowing from the depositor BY THE GOVERNMENT and not the bank.
Then wouldn't that make the proposed theft on Cypriot account balances of less than 100,000 a "loan to the government at negative interest rate of 6.75%" (using the first-proposed figures)?
All the more reason to get your cash out of the bank, no matter what country you're in.
If I'm going to be in the banking business, I'm going "full bankster", not giving them the fucking shirt off my back.......just sayin'.
ex-post....yes!!! ex-ante..well, the bank might not attract any funds (except for money launderers used to paying 20-40%!!)
Banks? Banks? We don't need no stinkin' banks! ;)
hooligan2009 Any idea what the reserve requirements are for the Cypriot banking system. Thanks for the insight, in you above post.
It seems to me that a banking system that is 10X it's GDP would want to have super high reserve requirements knowing full well that the debt could never be serviced in the event of default on loans and investments. Am I off base here?
i don't think the domestic regulator (FSA or equivalent) would have anything to offer beyond BIS requirements and these requirements seems to have been breached ina huge way with the exposure to greek government debt (downgrades were occurring over many years).
there are hugely different types of banks in cyprus, as there are in most countries.
the two big ones Laiki and bank of cyprus look bankrupt but were probably reserved and had passed stress tests by the ECB..(same as bankrupt US banks are solvent as long as loans are not marked to market and you ignore rehypothecation, derivatives delta and counterparty risk on p/l (one counteprarty defaults, your profit on derivatives disappears and you are landed with defaulted counterparty risk and a scramble to liquidate collateral).
what we are seeing is no different from this type of derivatives counterparty default event. derivatives are collateralized..try and sell the collateral across massive increases in bid/offer spreads in the underlying. no different form the jump to default event we are witnessing being played out by politicians who have never jumped to anything.
hooligan2009 Thanks very much for your info. Much appreciated. :-)
The steaming shit pile was started years ago, and priced in DELTA.
yep...appreciate your posts on other topics..don't agree with all that you say, but will defend to the death your right ot say it!
I'm still learning. Thanks for reminding me +1
WTF? Hooligan gave some great insight, and I acknowledged it.
NIHIL FIDEI - "trust no one"
aren't the banks all over the world interconnected by huge piles of debt and obligations? isn't finance extremely global these days? so the country of the bank does not matter. once there is a biggish implosion somewhere on the map, the whole global financial network will grind to a halt, right?
not quite..the system used to operate where different quality banks and corporates and individuals had different degrees of creditworthiness that resulted in different credit spreads for different qualities.
now that central banks have made money available to any and all banks (except cyprus) in unlimited quanitites, credit spreads have narrowed, not just for junk (below BBB- investment grade) but for all governments and indiviudals at the short end of the curve (<2 years, which is about the attention span of investors these days).
credit default swaps (CDS) and yields on spanish, italian and irish debt (for example) ten year government bonds do offer an assessment of the probability of default, relative to german ten year but also reflect the european wide inflation rate over the next ten years.
right now..the game is the same as for the USA..inflation in essentials for the poor ( so their net real wealth is reduced) and deflation for the rich ( so they get richer).
central banks are a political redistributor of wealth that nobody votes for. they think they run the financial system, which instead, just laughs at them as the civil servants PhD's who would struggle with a putting putty into windows to stop glass falling out..
One of the (MANY) issues with Cyprus banks is they were invested in Greek banks/ debt. When everyone was forced to take a haircut on Greece this had a huge negative impact on Cyprus balance sheets. So what happens in 1 country affects many other countries/ banks.
so in effect we can say the greek haircut triggered the cypriot collapse. and the cypriot collapse will trigger say 3 more collapses somewhere on the globe, and those three will cause say 9 more collapses and so on and so forth. right?
Remember, that "haircut" was structured so it fell only on the private sector. The ECB and other "official" lenders refused to take any pain, so the amount lost by each private sector lender increased. So depositors in Cyprus are now being forced to make payments to cover what should have been lost by the ECB and EU governments. But this is now said to all be the fault of the Cypriots.
Yes your describing the ' domino effect ' this is the so called contagion they fear.
Once they start falling they will drag each other down the sink hole due to their exposure to one another's derivatives and the whole thing will rapidly become to big to salvage.
Global financial collapse.
yep, that's what i meant, if a sovereign currency fails, i am afraid the rest have little chance to survive.
JPM, you read my mind. Must be your avatar of helicopter Ben giving the world the finger while engaging in a variation of the Vulcan Mind Meld. Always had a hunch the guy was from outer space... or inner Mongolia (same thing, I guess).
But, you are correct, brining back mental images of the early 70s with Nixon and Kissinger explaining why we must not let South Vietnam fall. Damn those sneaky commies; they'll take over the world.
We really need to update, though, because "Domino Effect" is so arcane. The new word is "contagion." Get with the program. We need to learn how to swim upstream in our latter years, like salmon heading back to the spawning spot... to DIE.
See you in hell, Bernanke, Draghi, Dimon and the rest of you crooks.
But, you are correct, brining back mental images of the early 70s with Nixon and Kissinger explaining why we must not let South Vietnam fall. Damn those sneaky commies; they'll take over the world.
In case you haven't noticed THEY have.
When you take your money out of the bank, you actually potentially remove 27-times that amount from the system, effectively doing your part to lower inflation. Consider it a reverse Mandrake Mechanism.
When you go buy PMs with that money, you lower the supply in the market, effectively doing your part to increase its value.
Good job, you.
Wouldn't you also be stimulating the economy the same way that any other purchase of goods would?
A win-win, especially since you're not doing it by purchasing Made-in-China trinkets.
Support your local coin shop.
Exactly! I say, let these "paper pimps" choke on their paper.
Meat, you are bringing up 'reserve requirements" again. Who prices assets for the banks? Who decides the value of a TURD?
I'm starting a new ratings agency. Mc. Donalds Ltd. Mc.Rib +10
epic
Meat, right on, dude! I could only up arrow you once, but your comment deserves at least 1000, rehypothecated and leveraged, of course.
Money out of banks, NOW!
Read your FDIC insurance policy:
"The FDIC protects depositors of insured banks located in the United States against the loss of their deposits if an insured bank fails."
http://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits/insured/basics.html
So, I guess that, if the US Treasury steals some of your deposit money and gives it to the bank to prevent the bank from failing, that theft is not covered by insurance.
Better off putting your money with Vanguard of Fidility in an un-insured money market fund.
because these wont be allowed to "break the buck" if the banks they invest in "fail"?
i can see the merit of turning MMF into checking account banks.
They invest mostly in US Treasuries and the equivalent. So, I guess you have a point if the Fed and the Treasury collapse.
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundId=0030&FundIntExt=I...
i dont have a problem with them at all..they are waiving fees at the moment because the yield is zero in treasuries out to one year..smart bastages...the ones at federated are good also..pretty safe and secure for the zero return..so closest thing to bank notes held in a safe, non-bank place there is i think.
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Federated_Investors_(FII)
I suddenly desire to date Ukranian women...
make sure they aren't from chernobyl! (green teeth is the give away...much like fukushima tea)
apparently i want cougars and supermarkets and scotch beef...hmmm
ill go with you ...
Cool info. Thx, Tylenator! Any info on Aussie or NZ banks? San Marino, Monaco, Liechtenstein, Andorra...?
don't forget netherlands antilles, aruba, bermuda, bahamas, delaware, ...
list is endless for parasitic tax havens living off the tax savings of parasitic companies and crooks.
or bezerkistan, babushkaville and Tartartown. i hear they're all in on this thinger too.
i hear ireland is going to emerge from insolvency ...in 2085
"Blessed are the MEEKLE !" Monedas 1929 Comedy Jihad World Tour
I guess this article is meant to say that those unsecured depositors must pull out their money "out of the Eurozone" but in reality you want them to convert their money into gold, right dear pseudo-Tyler?
It's sad how this blog started as an activist one and now it's just a lobby to make people to buy gold.
Bring The Gold
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qO66Rmi1Mw (1:01)
Gentle breeze before the tsunami....and the tsunami is going to last for a couple of weeks I reckon. Watch the Fed flood the ba nks with liquidity.
Now we will see the great stagflation.
where does the head of the imf put her deposits?
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article3718433.ece
doesn't seem to say...watch those spaces.."MIND THE GAP"!
The funny thing with fiat electronic money is that there's nowhere to put it other then ..........inside the system.
Fiat money is the system, and the system is fiat money.
Yep, call me stupid, wouldn't be the first time. The 2nd chart in the article titled "Large deposits and uninsured deposits..." needs clarification. Any help out there? Especially the "deposits above 100k". 100k of...?
What the Hell is Helicopter Ben waiting for to send these ridiculous 5 billions to Cyprus ??
mr xamax- i think the best asked question is the obvious unasked one ..... bingo!
The noose is tightening and governments all around are trying to get their share.
Canada implementing a tax fraud whistleblower reward:
"The government has laid out a series of conditions before it pays out money to whistle-blowers. The 15-per-cent reward will apply only to tax assessments or reassessments on international transactions over $100,000. In addition, Ottawa will not enter into deals with whistle-blowers who have been convicted in relation to the tax evasion they are flagging.
“We’re not looking for rogues turning in other rogues,” Mr. Flaherty said.
The new measures are part of a program called Stop International Tax Evasion, designed to ensure that all taxpayers contribute their fair share to government coffers."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/budget/whistleblowers-in-li...
These unsecured depositors of the world wouldn't happen to be sticking their money in our markets now would they?????
good answer to xamax's unasked question above.......
Hey,I'm Canadian and vacation in Cuba.Kinda like the Fidel brothers in a way.All this time and the FED hasn't destroyed them.And 90 miles off of Florida.
Congratulations!! Vacationing in Cuba means your money helps torture opponents of the Castros (as in cause them physical harm), you must be so PROUD.
ahhh...the old torture retort. used to work.
And vacationing in the US means your money helps ...
(If you can't fill in the blank, I have a long list starting with drone 16-year-old boys, buy more body scanners for the the DHS, provide funds for yet another "rebel" group fighting for "democracy" .... )
And 3.5M Palestinians living in a Jew/USA constructed ghetto prison...I guess you're proud of that? BTW, our very relationships with Israel, Pakistan, and India are felonious crimes based on our violating NNPT nuclear non-proliferation treaty. Do you enjoy being so naive and/or ignorant?
The end is nigh. Let's eat the rich.
a new door is opening. Bee Prepared/
Those are available: invest in in any US stockmarket index.
It's impossible to lose. Guaranteed by Ben.
It's almost like some fellow Zero Hedgers hatched this plan to expose the Emperor. Are the real plutocrats that were in charge tied up in their closet?
I'm amazed how stupid this move was, usually I have to hand it to TPTB, they're very good at keeping the con going, but the first really big domino just went down.
It's wierd how that happens? Welcome to reality.
You seem to have forgotten the big 4 Australian banks which have a loan-to-deposit ratio of around 180%
"Australia's banks facing a culture shift"
http://www.smh.com.au/business/australias-banks-facing-a-culture-shift-2...
Take your money out of the banking system, apart from essential payments. Buy gold, silver, land. Sleep easy, and watch this unfolding rocky horror show from the safety of secure family and community.
The rootless cosmopolitans and gangster banksters are going to kill each other. Their snivelling money grubbing political pets will get more hysterical. Keep out of the crossfire, friends.
+1 But not land. Taxed out here.
The fucking stupid is now starting to make my ass sting.
Unsecured Depositors/ http://www.nebraska.tv/story/21773984/cyprus-racing-to-complete-alternat...
Treasure Island Trauma
Well now shucks, looks like all is going to be OK after all.
Panic off. Nothing to see here folks. Go home and pay your bills. Buy stocks.
"Rehn suggested that Cyprus faces huge challenges ahead to revive its economy after the damage that has been done to its vital financial sector.“It is clear that the near future for Cyprus will be very difficult. But Cyprus and the Cypriot people are part of the European family. The European Union stands by them and will help to rebuild the Cypriot economy,” he said."- European Union Economic and Monetary Affairs Olli Rehn.
Cyprus yet to conclude deal with troika as talks move into early hours of Sunday.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_24/03/2013_489596
And then, he makes his own headline. Why does this guy feel like the flim-flam man?
Only hard choices left for Cyprus, says Rehn who appears hopeful of eurozone deal.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_23/03/2013_489579
Hopeful? Wasn't he one of the Seven Dwarfs?
True that. I especially like this... "the Cypriot people are part of the European family". No shit? Don't most of the dumbest arguments occur within families? I am glad I am not part of the "European family". Hell, I am white and don't even want to admit any heritage that might relate/implicate me to those fucks.
so was dopey
Truth Bitchez/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Chin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China
I'm GMT-8. This shitstorm is growing. I'm getting ready to head back to Queensland. The exchange rates are crazy. I hedged my aud/usd.
AKAK knows I can fly/
Again a "spam": I've updated the Cyprus blog post - all the articles I've seen on the little island in the past days..
http://morelivers.blogspot.com/2013/03/16th-mar-special-bailout-of-cypru...
What happens in Cyprus stays in Cyprus.
You're thinking of this place all wrong.
As if I had the money back in a safe. The money's not here.
Your money's in Joe's house...right next to yours. And in the Kennedy house, and Mrs. Macklin's house, and a hundred others.
Why, you're lending them the money to build, and then, they're going to pay it back to you as best they can. Now what are you going to do? Foreclose on them?...
Now wait...now listen...now listen to me. I beg of you not to do this thing.
Dairy Cows aside Tylers/
lets break even.
Germany average wealth :
Poorer than the "poor" countries ?
Germany : 51,400 EUR
France : 113,500 EUR
Spain : 178,300 EUR
Italy : 163,900 EUR
Austria : 76,400 EUR
Interesting article :
http://www.querschuesse.de/deutschland-vermogen-fur-viele-unerreichbar/
Germany average wealth :
Poorer than the "poor" countries ?
Not really, the others are going to FAIL,at least the Germans will still have theirs.(maybe in DM's)
Rollover?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPYLJoq_40Y
Cyprus-style solution for New Zealand
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1303/S00306/national-planning-cyprus-st...
Zerohedge readers are s**d by zerohedge again.
It is in somebodies intrest to spread misinformation about banks.
The security of deposito's depend on the financing structure.
Banks with a low deposito to loan ratio are more secure than banks with a high one.
Zerohedge try to believe you the oposit.
Cyprus has a ratio of 1. What is very dangerous for depositors because there are no creditors with a lower seniority.
For the US we cross the bridge to levels bigger than 1. This means something fishy is going on.
But for all you zerohedge heard "short the Euro" Remember Citi makes a killing on your Euro short , Greece short positions in 2012 .
Haven't you been paying attention?
i had a tention once...but i didn't pay for it.
not sure which left field this came out of..maybe it's a European Commission employee?
"The business daily Handelsblatt writes:
"The currency union has committed a breach of trust. It weighs especially heavy because the euro states have already secretly been rehabilitating their economies at the expense of depositors. Low interest rate policies help bring down the national debt, but at the same time they gradually deplete the balances of savings and money market accounts. The pensions of many citizens are also dwindling."
"Anyone who now believes they shouldn't be interested in the fate of individual depositors on a remote Mediterranean island is mistaken. Cyprus sets a precedent. What happens there can also happen elsewhere. In Spain and Ireland, bank bailouts have allowed the national debt to explode to an unsustainable level. There, the euro zone could see tapping into bank accounts as the next step. In principle, no European depositor can remain assured that their bank balance will remain untouched -- even in Germany."
From De Spiegel
From ZIRP to QE its all about stealing and taxing depositors money.
Don't forget pension funds, IRAs and 401k accounts. Funny, isn't it, that the rules on IRAs involve a penalty if you touch it before you're 59 1/2, but .gov can go in and take the money well before then, no doubt in the interest of "national se-screw-ity."
You savers are nothing but homegrown terrists and by relieving you of your money, .gov ensures that you won't be a problem, you pesky money-hoarders.
And the reason’s it’s better to keep your money in a bank than a mattress is:
Ease of access – No
Lower risk of theft or confiscation – Nein
Interest payments on your deposit – Non
Tax avoidance – Nee
It will help grow your local economy – Ochi
Come on, someone help me out here. There must be some reason; free coffee, toasters, tote bags, foot massages, escort services, something, anything …….O.K. no haircuts please.
I really think it’s about time to revive those old AIG ad slogans with slight revisions.
“It’s Your Money”, until you put it in the bank, then “It’s Our Money”.
“We Know Money”, until you put it in the bank, then it’s “We No Money”.
Shit man, you get a free Spiderman towel!
What the hell more do you want?
Enjoy this old favorite
:-)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/broke-bankia-runs-out-toasters-it-has-bold...
Italy? Tell me this is a joke. Italian banks kept alive by Super Mario...
Checking the morning news shows for any mention of Cyprus. NADA, like it doesn't exist.
We all owe the mainstream media a big thank you for keeping us all safe from bad news from those foreign countries who don't know how to manage their finances.
Next up: FauxNews Sunday and Meet the Flesh with nitwit David Gregory (never trust a guy with two first names, probably one of them is phony). Who wants to bet that Gregory and the expert "roundtable" won't mention Europe or Cyprus. You all realize that talking about Cyprus would take time away from discussing the NCAA tournament, right?
US media deserves sticks in their eyes. The only reason I still have cable TV is because they carry RTTV, the only news service that covers stuff more important than Spring fashions and refreshing stories of homeless people doing good deeds.
Isn't "Idol" on tonight? Geez...
UPDATE: Press the Flesh will focus on... wait for it... GUN CONTROL. Legen-dary! FU ABCNNBCBS and all your cable affiliates.
Go deposit your money, and when you need to take it out they hand you your stocks in some Ukranian rock company. I fail to see the problem.
See that most of the banks in the top are swedish.
The state owned bank SBAB, which has forced the other banks to make loans at too low rates.
The loans-to-deposit rate for this bank is 914 %.
They have increased their deposits by offering the best interest rate.
Some years ago the loan-to-deposit rate was 2500 %.