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Another Gold Shortage? Dutch ABN To Halt Physical Gold Delivery
Based on a letter to clients over the weekend, it appears Dutch megabank ABN Amro is changing its precious metals custodian rules and "will no longer allow physical delivery." Have no fear, they reassuringly add, your account will be settled at the bid or offer price in the 'market' and "you need to do nothing" as "we have your investments in precious metals."
Via Google Translate,
Changes in the handling of orders in bullion
On 1 April 2013,. ABN AMRO to another custodian for the precious metals gold, silver, platinum and palladium. This we your investments in precious metals otherwise handle and administer. In this letter you can read more about it.
What will change?
With the transition to the new custodian will include the following from 1 April 2013 for you to change.
• You can have your precious metals to your investment account no longer physically let us extradite
• Gives you order in precious metals via the giro ABN AMRO? Then the settlement of orders that henceforth performed at bid prices or at the offer prices prevailing on the market for precious metals. No longer based on the mid-price, as you used to.
• The bid price is the price that merchants offer for precious metals that are offered for sale, so if you sell.
• The ask price is the price at which traders want to sell precious metals, so if you buy.
• We are the positions in these precious metals in your investment statements against future bid prices appreciate
You can read more about investing in precious metals in Chapter 4 (Supplementary conditions for investing in precious metals) of the Conditions Beleggersgiro. You can find these at abnamro.nl / Conditions invest
Should I do anything?
You need do nothing. We ensure that we have your investments in precious metals now the new way to handle and administer.
(h/t MDG by way of Frank Knopers)
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MsCreant: You must be striving to achieve a record for the most red arrows via online polling.
so, is it a coincidence that there is no ammo and the .gov is talking about an assault weapons ban?
anybody who keeps an account with ABN AMRO is a flipping idiot and a total sucker! ABN AMRO just skywrote they don't have the gold!
I have a checking account with them but I'm constantly in the red. So I don't care. My true wealth is held elsewhere.
Must be Bitcoiners cashing out for real metal. Gold Run, Bitchez!
Bitcoin is at $71 right now. I've quintupled my investment in it since January. The number of users of Bitcoin is rising every day. So no, I'm not selling my Bitcoins now.
I also own over a bunch of gold and silver now. But I expect Bitcoin to rise much further and much faster, because it's easier to transact with than precious metals.
you could not have
unless you sold
This is true. I had almost "doubled" my money on some RGR call options. Then Sandy Hook. Then I lost all my money that I had "doubled". And the losing was a lot more real than the doubling, I assure you.
Okay. What's your point, again? That the government will try to regulate Bitcoin? They can't.
you can't loose your bitcoins in a boating accident
You can if you put your wallet.dat on an USB thumbstick and tied it to a brick and secure wiped all other copies.
...unless you sold, paid your exchange fee, and received your fiat.
Somebody's butthurt. I'm not trading my Bitcoins for fiat because fiat isn't real money.
And bitcoins are....?
According to your $71 bitcoins, a Troy ounce of gold would cost you $2,208.38. I will NOT sell you my gold at that price.
Don't worry, I'm not interested in buying your gold at that price, either. Can you send your gold instantly to anyone in the world? Can you divide it accurately down to 8 decimal places? Didn't think so.
Can you toss your bit coin on a silk covered bed and revel in it with an awestruck nymph?
Didn't think so.
Can you send your gold instantly to anyone in the world?
No need, but GoldMoney works fine, check it out.
Can you divide it accurately down to 8 decimal places?
No need, but Ag and Cu have worked fine for millenia.
Your assumptions are wrong. In fact, I have traded with a well known ZH'er by communicating in real time and have now done TWO trades with that person based on REAL TRUST in the past month. FYI... that person is in a far different time zone from me. We communiciate INSTANTLY, we trade, we trust. And it is quite easy to verify TRUST without having to send money via Western Union or Bernank bucks.
I'd love to stick around and give you a REAL education, but it appears you are not somebody I would trust to pick up my empties after a party. Your trust lays in Bitcoins and Bernanke Bucks. I prefer dealing with human beings.
If Bitcoin rises much further and faster in the near term, it's not for the reason you've given. It's because:
1) There's no mechanism (currently, at least) for any central bank or other financial institution to manipulate the price down;
2) If there's a sudden strong increase in demand for gold (and other PMs), much gold currently off the market in the form of jewellery etc. will be sold back into the market by holders excited at the the prospect of an unanticipated windfall. This may, for a while at least, act as a buffer to the price of gold. Bitcoins, on the other hand, iirc, have a hard supply limit of 21 million or some such figure, which means, in the case of a sudden spike in demand, there's no non-monetary supply that can reenter the market to temprarily temper the price rise;
3) Bitcoin is clearly entering the realm of a psychological bubble - people who have seen (temporarily, is my bet) the value of their Bitcoins appreciate rapidly suddenly think they're financial geniuses. Witness Max Keiser (either ironically or unironicaly, I can't quite tell) trumpeting repeatedly that he's a "Bitcoin millionaire". And how quickly Bitcoin true believers (as can be seen in many a recent ZH comment) deride anyone who doesn't buy hook, line and sinker into the wonder of Bitcoin. Reminds me the Iomega fanboys in 1996 (and remember how that turned out) or the derivatives craze of the mid 1990s, where corporate and state government investment officials were plunging into derivatives (e.g, Orange County) and proclaiming that anyone who counselled caution was a financial caveman who just wasn't bright enough to understand the unlimited the financial genius they were witnessing. Right up until the derivatives all blew up, taking down companies and local governments (again, like Orange Country) in their wake. I'm sure, 400 years ago, some Dutch speculator who had just paid the eqivalent of tens of thousands of today's dollars for a single tulip bulb was dismissively explaining to some more cautious "dunce" just how ignorant they were for failing to grasp the can't miss superiority of tulip bulbs over all other forms of investment.
RE: Iomega fanboys in 1996 --
I still have zip drives (100 and 250 MB)
and a few floppies (3.5 and 5.25 inches) with 2.88 MB's each.
Meh too wasted a lots of bucks for the shitty and defect-prone storage device, still keeping the IOmega ZipDrive and plenty of Zipdiscs until today ;) a hard lesson of the stupid manner then !!!
Take the cash or gold and RUN LIKE HELL Folks......
Move over BitCoin here comes gold and silver.
The price of gold hasn't budged and Bitcoin is soaring, as usual. Gold is just too awkward to transact with in day-to-day life. It's nice for saving long term, but for everything else Bitcoin is far superior.
My neighbors sisters mom makes $90,000 per month mining bitcoins, why not you?
Untill the gov. takes the internet down then bit coin becomes a nice wet dream
Bullion dealer I met with last week: "Everyone is buying, no one is selling."
No one is selling is right. From first hand knowledge, the poor and middle class are out of gold/silver. The supply has dried up.
the dutch aren't selling...that's fer sure. "we have tons of gold...it's just not for sale right now." and as it is with a gold bug so it is with a bank. not so true for gold miners...but they aren't doing very well price wise. hmmm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkRkGCm4atE
This is like watching dominoes fall in very slow motion. Thing is, it is speeding up.
It will be so fast you cannot see it, very shortly.
Thats how this game goes.If you haven't made your final preps yet ,
do it tomorrow.
This is the sense I am getting too. The pace is rapidly picking up.
Bank run, vault run, gas station run, grocery store run, everything run.
Are you saying humanity has the runs? I understand it can be cleansing.
no he means if you aint got physical Gold or Silver, aint got food stored, and aint got gats to protect your shit you have best get to runnin'..........
Run Forrest, run!
You've got to run like an antelope, out of control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6A-cJr4Kpw
It is only a 20% surcharge after the first ounce if you insist on delivery.
It is only a 20% surcharge after the first ounce if you insist on delivery.
Check the FINE print on all pys holders for the plebes,even the top dog ones,you will typically find this clause.
Just like any ETF I have seen, IF we so choose,you will be repaid in UDS equivalent of your Au holdings.
20% Seems To Be The % Of The Week
HOW DO YOU MEAN THE GOLD IS GONE?!?!?
THE LITTLE PAPER SAYS : GOOD AS...
here comes your new paper...
GONE...
aaaaand it's gone!!!
"You need do nothing." WTF?
Of course you need do nothing. Just lay there. It'll be over soon.
""You need do nothing." WTF?"
That's Dutch for 'There's nothing you can do.'.
Agreed. That's exactly how I was reading into it.
"All your bullion are belong to us."
"And all our bullion are belong to someone else!"
"called money." (and in the darkness bind them.)
Agree, I doubt anyone here has their gold and silver (that is if you have any left after all the boating accidents we all had over the last year or so,) in any safe deposit box with any bank or fiduciary. If you cannot see it, touch it and look at it. YOU DO NOT OWN ANY GOLD OR SILVER.
And that's a fact.
if you can't
throw it at your cat..
you don't own it
I guess we have this to look forward to:
NEW! It's the No-Delivery Futures Account from your friends at CRIMEX!
Do you often worry that your gold and precious metal accounts might not be secure, that it could be stolen after delivery? Well worry no more. With the New No-Delivery Futures Account at CRIMEX, you won't have to worry about deliveries or ever having to handle barbaric relics. We take care of it for you.
No need to do anything. We will take your existing account and convert it to the No-Delivery Futures Account option for you.
Security. Trust. Innovation.
We're CRIMEX
ROTFL!!!
And with this new innovative "product offering", lease space ïs drastically reduced, the guards can be laid off, no trucks burning fuel shuttling gold around to fulfill contracts, the drivers can be let go too.
Its a win-win for the CRIMEX bottom line.
Sign up today!
I think the the letter says that they are hoping against hope that their bid price does not exceed the near futures price. They're adamant that you understand that they will give you the spot bid, no matter what.
But do keep clicking that mouse & sending us those checks, dear valued clients.
Helluva business model "ghost gold"...lol.
and "Silver Surfers"...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk_XznRmjgE
dontcha love google translate dutch is a such a garbled language to begin with
For a few moments there I thought I was reading another insanitationalized Engrish diatribe by AnAnonymous.
However, the lack of the word "citizenism" and the phrase "US 'americans' " quickly made me realize that I was mistaken. I guess blobbing-up errorizing is my eternal nature, alas alas.
the funny thing is both you and Ananonymouuse ad color to ZH
when I listen to dutch speakers I am expecting them to dislodge a hairball at any moment
As a Dutchman I agree. It's often easier to express thoughts and feelings in English. Then again English is a mutt language which has borrowed a lot more words from other languages than most other languages.
Long lies!
If you keep an account with any institution who offers a piece of paper only - YOU MIGHT BE A DUMBASS !!
Tja wel jammer meneer, maar op is op!
Helaas opperdepop!
hilarious....
i had a couple i met n a bar slam their drinks down and storm out when i told them the Gold that they thought they had in an ETF didn exist and they were gonna get worthless dollars when the shit hit the fan...
fortunatley i was strapped when i told them so they couldnt kill the messenger........
It means there is only ONE WEEK LEFT to forcing ABN to make good on the gold they promised they had, or bring down ABN (and some other Northern European banking thieves) if they can't deliver the gold they have been promising they had (and been fraudulently charging their customers for holding).
Strike your enemy where he is week-
ABN was taken over by the Dutch state in 2008. For ABN to go down the Dutch state must first go down. They're working on that.
It mentions in the additional requirements that the "DBN" or "Deutsche Bank Nederland" now handles the precious metals for the ABN-AMRO.
And then some stuff about people not being able to deman physical delivery if market conditions are outragious , if there is new goverment regulation and other things outside of their control,
for instance: " Highly increased market demand ".
And then some stuff about in the advent of a possible bankrupt of said DBN , that customers hold no rights and that ABN-AMRO will seek compensation of some sort for them.
etc...
Hugo Chavez can't stop laughing at Whitey from his grave.
He also might be laughing from Cyprus, for all we truly know
Or where the guy from Enron is.
That would be hell. Which may be easily confused with Cyprus in short order.
Look, just because they don't have it doesn't mean it's not there!
If you don't have it buried in the back yard or hidden in a hollowed out wall & protected at gun point (preferably an AR15), you don't own it.
I like AR-15's too, but there's something special about a Tommy Gun.
I like AR-15's too, but there's something special about a Tommy Gun.
Yeah Tommy Guns are almost good for nothing as far as Ballistics, and they are cool,but not the caliber.
LOL. Everybody always has their opinions about the "best" and "worst" calibers like it means something. The best caliber is whatever gun you have that's locked and loaded and ready to go when you need it. The worst caliber is the gun you don't have, or the one that's in the safe if you'll only hold on a moment so I can get it out...
If tommy guns are "almost good for nothing as far as ballistics" then please volunteer to stand in front of a .45. I'm reasonably sure a 230-grain slug traveling around 1,000 feet per second is going to leave a bit more than a flesh wound, and I know that it's for damn sure better than nothing.
Archer, you pussy. Use a manly caliber like 460.
Doesnt do shit against level 3 armor. That's the MINIMUM armor you can expect on a gold/silver confiscating opponent agent.
IED along roadside leaves most
unwelcome feels -- state of the art communication.
IED THE WAR CRIMINALS
If you feel safe because your bank is FDIC insured - YOU MIGHT BE A DUMBASS !!
I did feel safe. Not anymore. So am I a reformed dumbass?
Nah, now you are a smart ass.
Next stupid EU step: paper gold confiscation.
possible. GLD has been selling off for some time now. "next stop a bank"?
The Outer Limits (1963)
-We Control The Vertical
-We Control The Horizontal
The Outer Limits HD (2013)
-We Control The Shiney
They can hand out AJAX Amsterdam jerseys instead of Spiderman towels.
Instead of capital controls, we now have gold controls. In Cyprus you will get worthless stock in banks for the money that is not there and in Holland you will get worthless fiat for the gold that is not there. It's ontology not economics.
Fuck it im going to drain my equity account and go all in monday. Gld and silver.
I just really wanted to profit from my bond shorts(usa and japan) but i have a feeling it wont allow me to reap the benifits from a strong dollar in that situation. Sucks. Also, in that circumstance (bond collapse) gold will jump and give me a poor entry. Sorry just thinking here
Hey whiteknight- have u considered this bro?
If you believe what bankers and politicians say - YOU MIGHT BE A DUMBASS !!
At ABN Amro, we make money the old fashioned way... We STEAL it.
Horrible translation! Can some one else do better please?
If you don't hold it, you don't own it.
Hey, considering that the source material was that groote de voote linguistic monstrosity called Dutch, I think they didn't do a bad job at all.
Besides, "You aren't getting your gold" is universal.
The dutch language started as a joke that got out of hand.
LOL!
I'll admit, even as a native English speaker, that written English is an abomination, and written German is hideous with all its pointless capital letters and its agglutinized, polysyllabic Frankenstein words, but honestly, written Dutch has to be almost the ugliest written language on earth (at least in the Roman alphabet --- that fluid, backward chickenscratching that is written Arabic is right up there, too).
Now, if one wants to see what a truly beautiful written language looks like, look at Armenian or Georgian:
Armenian
I don't know, Dutch is quite a lovely language if you enjoy the sound of phlegm being cleared in one's throat. The term phlegmish comes to mind.
Mind that most Dutch people *THINK* they can speak English pretty well but most in fact *CAN'T*.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunglish
I know my use of the English language must look like shit to native speakers but at least I don't pretend it isn't. ^^
Dear Muppet,
Trust us.
Now go back to work.
Sincerely,
Jon Corzine
A few yrs ago the PM of Luxemborg said something like "When things get really bad, you must lie." Well...what do we expect them to say...yo Adrian you're screwed?
It's just a matte of time.
Jean Claude Juncker said that a few MONTHS ago. Just seems longer when you've been watching a slow motion train wreck like this.
(Velocity) Subject to change any moment now, of course.
And where is bitcoin in Exters pyramid. Huh? Gold&silver bitchez!
It not about the gold. It's about the value. Right?
No, I'm pretty sure it's about the gold.
The only custodian for private PM investors in the Netherlands was HBU (Hollandsche Bank Unie), a full daughter of ABN Amro until it was taken over by Deutsche Bank. DB pulled the plug on PM investors last year, in December. Now, ABN Amro is doing the same, since DB has ordered them, supposedly, to clean out their old vault at HBU.
As a matter of fact, for private PM investors in the Netherlands, it's practically impossible to stack physical in a bank vault. There isn't any available and my experience is that even bank lockers are discontinued at every major bank. There's no place to put your valuables into custody, but under your own mattress.
This smells like a tacit, official policy, instigated by central banks, the ECB, FED, in cahoots with the BIS, probably, as a measure against money laundering or terrorism, ultimately. ;-)
There are plenty of lakes and rivers in the Netherlands.
who the hell "money launders" gold? time to bring back these guys: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dutch_pirates apparently they forgot the name "ABN Ambro" ...of course it's wiki if they "pour the stiff one" again there's always room...and time.
You should do nothing however, you may want to proceed to a hash cafe off Damrak. In a few hours you will forget you ever received this letter.Particularly where the skunk don't shine...
We will take care of the gold. Goodbye..
Your sincerely,
ABN AMRO
Which will be banged accordingly 30 seconds before the settling close in a typical step function move if you don’t pay us a fee and trading margin to roll your position into the next month.
Behold, see the true extortionary nature of PM ETF’s, futures, and OTC derivatives in full bloom. But, it’s neither misrepresentation nor manipulation because the CFTC and COMEX said so. Just don’t try doing it to us or our army of lawyers will get medieval on your ass.
If you feel safe because your online trade account is insured by SIPC - YOU MIGHT BE A DUMBASS !!
You should design a dumbass quiz for Fortune Magazine or something.
Double dumbass post.
If you use the term "Double dumbass post" - You might be a dumbass !!
ABN is owned by government, so your gold is travelling as collateral to Cyprus or Greece.
Hard asset run bitchez.
Brings Up 'Golden Showers' To Mind, No?
Piss off!
Translation edit: "If After Aprils' Fools Day, You Didnt Claim The Physical, We Reserve The Right To Drop the Words 'Aprils' and 'Day'
Hi ziggy59, you beat me by 1 minute!
I must live a min East of you... :)
At least, they chose the right date for their bullion trick, April Fools Day.
the euronazis are on a roll - first greece, then cyprus, now netherlands....
my tin hat is looking more and more fashionable all the time even as the rockefeller nazis continue their feeble effete ridicule....
i will reiterate the total and irreversible backwardation in gold despite the paper gold price fraud....much gold is in ny bankster's home basements....the vast majority in china.....
and this little fucktard had none.....i know that not everyone's financial situation can afford it, but if you spend money on beer, bullets, or porn, you can afford silver or gold....time is running out
man i live in holland and bank with abn , i had no idea you could get gold tungsen from them
ABN Amro had an unfortunate boating accident.
Come on, get with the times, no delivery required in a Virtual /FIAT economy. Just think it or say it and it will be.
First, They Came For My Cypriot €, But I Didnt Say A Word Because I Didnt Live In Cyprus.
Then, They Came For My Bitcoins, But I Didnt Mind, Because I Didnt Have Any.
Then They Came For My Paper Gold, But I Didnt Mind Again, Because I Didnt Have Any Either
Then, They Came For My.....
horsemeat...
dear Client,
Nothing to worry about, your gold is stored at Fort Knox...
I don't feel the least bit sorry for anyone stupid enough to let a large bank hold their physical gold for them
Bloomberg spending $12M of his own money to "Palestinize" America...guns are the last thing to go
"Palestinize" America coming from Bloomberg. Love that analogy.
Wonder how badass the Israeli's would be if all the Palestinians had AR-15's just like them?
So gun control seems to work pretty good for people control too, Imagine that Mr bloomberg?
Ironic to say the least or a coincidence?
"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks."
John Dalberg Lord Acton
Still sweeping,could this be the year?
Sell that paper gold to some dumbass asap, take the fiat and buy delivered bullion right away. This thing could blow any minute now.
As always, it will be a hoot to watch the asia gold open on kitco this evening US time. The question will be whether Ben and Jamie take 3 seconds, or maybe 4 seconds to crush any inconvenient upward spike in the PM(s) price. Assholes.
They'll have block redemptions on private pension accounts soon if they keep this pace up.
Jim
rogers took delivery of the gold He bought between 2000 and 2004 and had it delivered to Singapore, where it can be stored safely.
I'd get my money out of my ABN account as fast as I could. Maybe this is what the controllers want - to have people sell the ABN gold. Problem is, I'd sell my ABN gold and buy deliverable phyzz from someplace else.
Next is a Gold run. Get your physical out, before they take a 20% levy.
Interesting thought! Why not? The gov'ts and banksters gotta c y a somehow.
I'm Dutch guys, trust me it's true.
At red arrow #2 it says: "You can no longer take delivery of your precious metals investment account."
You can only settle for cash
GAME OVER
Surely, if there was some sort of 'problem', why would they give an investor even a few days prior notice?
prefaced by wat gaat er veranderen
+ 1 - thank you for the translation.
Read "precious" as "previous" (vorig). </kidding, sort of>
Re I'm Dutch guys, trust me it's true....
The Dutch Schultz? Wow - I, for one, never doubted you!
Hope the bootlegging biz is treating you well. Give my regards to Mr Luciano and tell him I apologize for misplacing his gold bars - but, not to worry, I'll re-imburse him in FRNs at the earliest opportunity. tia ;)
If they are still accepting physical gold deposits, then there is a real problem. Not that this obvious contract fraud is not a problem.
I asked the Dutch for some gold and they gave me a Dutch Oven!
..and metals go down?
U.n.f.r.i.g.g.i.n.b.e.l.i.e.v.a.b.l.e