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Dijsselbloem: "Levy On Wealth Is Defendable In Principle"
While France's Hollande and Spain's Rajoy are double-teaming the 'unique, exceptional' nature of Cyprus, the non-template nature of the 'deal', the need for Europe-wide guarantees, and that the ESM should be used to recap banks and not depositors, none other than Dutch FinMin Dijsselbloem is at it again as he admits what many have suspected:
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS LEVY ON WEALTH IS DEFENDABLE IN PRINCIPLE
and, as if responding to the desperate French and Spanish leaders:
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS DEPOSIT GUARANTEE SYSTEMS ARE NATIONAL
It would appear our views are increasing appearing true - that a wealth tax is coming in much more systemic a manner than many expect currently.
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no one cares
during initial discussions, but after the confiscation they sure as hell will.
I am asking, is't that normal process. There is a guarantee up to 100k and then once capital is gone, doposits are cut?
This is normal? Why such a fuss?
Because the EU haircut the Greek bonds which the Cypriot banks held, making them insolvent, and now the EU wants savers to pay for the EUs actions. Or to put it another way if I stabbed you and then blackmailed you into giving me all your money to take you to hospital, would that be a good or bad thing?
*DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS LEVY ON WEALTH IS DEFENDABLE IN PRINCIPLE
So are public hangings of corrupt public officials and the people who control them.
Thank you for pushing money to the USA and helping us to fund our deficit spending.
LEVY ON WEALTH IS DEFENDABLE IN PRINCIPLE
.. but there is that little detail of PRACTICE.
The little that is left of a western “market” will abandon you in a heartbeat and the BRICs/developing world will reject you even faster.
Principle of the fucking dark ages. Kingly like atmosphere do have its healthy Revolutions.
This Dieselboom fuck really doesn't know when to shut up, does he.
Actually, I'm glad he's talking. It might wake up a few more sleepers into action as it is a revelation of how these bankers really think.
Keep on talking Mr.Dijsselbloem. By speaking the truth you are helping the cause of liberty more than you could possibly know.
Okay, then explain why people are piling into the USD, when White House has pushed "TAX THE RICH" for months, and there's talk of nationalizing 401K and IRAs. Knowing the major economic themes of the next couple decades, wouldn't it make much more sense to buy PMs and maybe hold some Eurasian currencies? Or is that too esoteric for people on the street? Call me dense, but I just don't follow European depositor logic.
“then explain why people are piling into the USD,”
a. it’s all they know.. misplaced confidence
b. elements of game theory.. and the algos.
c. see “a” above, the last 40 years of “education” has produced societal livestock (this time is different)..
In short, PMs are a great inflation hedge, but only if there is inflation. Without inflation, PMs suck at just about everything 'cause they are expensive to store in bulk and don't yield anything. So European depositors are waiting for the first sniff of inflation - then they'll rush to exit currencies like so many Brazilians in a burning nightclub.
When exactly in the last 80 years (USA) or the last 100 years (in Europe) has there NOT been 'inflation', i.e., ongoing currency debasement? Allow me to answer my own question: NEVER! So any fool still "waiting for inflation" is not just going to be too late, he is ALREADY too late.
Geez you idiot. Krugman says today that there is no inflation, never has been and never will be, so you're wrong. He has a shiny nobel prize, so he knows. I have other shiny things, but i'm just a moron shumk. Even Buffett, the smartest investor of all time thinks i'm an idiot for buying shiny yellow metal. Sometimes i wonder why i do so many stupid things all the smartest people tell me not to.....glutton for punishment i guess. Just like you should trust a women that has cheated on you, you should always trust a banking system that has fucked you. To say otherwise makes you a doomer....and maybe a terrorist.
Jim Willie said it is about domination between East and West in an interview about Cyprus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5OBHqQkiAI
Exactly, Dieselboom should first clarify for himself what he actually wants to say. Otherwise, even hens in the yard will be laughing at him.
And I don't want to hear another call from Goldman...
I had to down vote you - the only people who actually want him to shut up are the lying bar stewards in the rest of the EU.
Moar truthiness!!
Oh, and I'm picking DieselBoom for my dead pool entry.
it would be a lot more fair if, for example, a 10 percent tax or penalty were assessed whenever funds were withdrawn
Safely Graze,
NO, if people follow banking PROTOCALLS,then NO one should be hit,unless they are OVER the insured,guaranteed amount.(and then ONLY when it will save ALL depositors.)
Removing the political and banking class is defenable in principle and practical too.
No one expects the spanish inquisition.....
....."Nooobody expects the spanish inquisition"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAn7baRbhx4
As long as the SHEEPLE under the MAX insured rate do not get hit,they will stay asleep.
If they(Cypress) went thru with their 1st proposal, in America there would not be a Bank left in one piece.
Three things you do NOT wanna screw around with.
A Mans family,his money, and his guns................
Banks are no longer a safe place to store your money.
That's the bottom line. If you don't hold it in your possession, "Poooofff!..." it can be gone in a flash depending on the whims of some bankers & politicians, without warning.
Banks have not been a safe place to store money for a very long time. It's just becoming apparent to the masses now.
This too shall pass.
In other news... 'Bloomberg' says that telling New Yorkers what to eat, drink, carry, & that it is in their best interest to be spied upon 24/7 is defendable...
Hey, jizzelbomb- using this logic, it is defensible to hang bankers, politicians and eurocrats as well. I am in complete agreement in principle of course
Just need to sort out the details;hemp or piano wire ?
depends on the desired aesthetic affect i suppose...
Got Rope?
But credit risk is normar business. If Greece is insolvent, it is insolvent. It is poor risk management to hold a concentration of almost insolvent sovereign bonds.
Anyone could have predicted Greek insolvency in 2004. Olympics added 5% to GDP, all waste in later useless arenas, all paid by borrowing.
If a bank is stupid enough to buy such debt, it is a failure of governance, risk management and macroprudential oversight. Wealth depositors should pay attention.
It is a real world. Stop whining about conspiracy or similar Alex Jones type of argumentation.
Then how about the ECB- which itself was dumb enough to accept crap paper as collateral, taking a haircut on the 9B they fronted Laiki, after all it's --
"just credit risk management to hold a concentration of almost insolvent sovereign bonds. If a bank is stupid enough to be holding such collateral and then pushes its counter-party into bankruptcy, it is a failure of governance, risk management and macroprudential oversight." (among other things)
The demographics of Greece is the main cause of their decline. They didn't have enough kids to sustain their civilization, nevermind their welfare state, pensions and so on. The stupidity of the euro allowed this demographically doomed historically risky country to borrow lots of money for awhile at low spreads to far less risky borrowers in formerly prudent low risk places like Germany. The decline was coming anyway for Greece, baked into their distribution of age and super low birth rates. They just got to party hearty for a few years here. No recovery is possible there. They face civilisational collapse.
demographics is not the root cause. people cant afford having babies anymore because they have no stable source of income
Regardless of cause and effect, it is a death spiral
1. Sovereign Bonds are Tier 1 capital and are held without any reserves against them as per Basel, as Sovereigns in the EU can be blackmailed into taking on private debits to other sovereigns, like they did with Ireland who are paying Germans back for their failed banks, no sovereign is safe, except Germany.
2. The EU had been saying they would save Greece up until the bond haircuts remember debt baybacks, rollovers and swaps? Yep The EU lied about private creditors to Greece being screwed while at the same time keeping the EBC / IMF whole.
To conclude, holding Greek bonds wasn't stupid if you believed the people in charge, we (the ZH community, a few notable bloggers and occasional reporter) are the few that are willing to doubt the lies of the politicians and bureaucrats and poke holes in there arguments, but most people, maybe 99%+, are neither intelligent nor inquisitive enough to be like us.
That's true to a great extent. On the other hand, it was the central governments and their central bankers that flooded the world economy with cash blowing an enormous worldwide financial bubble. That cash had to be spent or invested elsewhere and the normal economic indicators and checks and balances were thrown completely out of whack.
Prices on stocks, bonds & commodities were greatly inflated based on artificially low interest rates and a lot of hot cash. The economy was booming far beyond what was reasonable and supported by the underlying economic reality.
Those bankers obviously made some bad decisions, particularly in retrospect, but there was a reason so many other bankers (& rating agencies) were making such disasterous decisions at the same time as well. It was not some ginormous coincidence.
See Prof. Roger Garrison's Youtube talk on the ever prescient Austrian Theory of the Trade Cycle.
the financial catalyst for any sovereignty is not the poor, nor the uber wealthy, but rather the middle class that fuels the engine of growth
Doposits guaranteed in the Amsterdam Sinsi Bank oh man that was good stuff. What?
We are gonna die...
Otter, we're the only white people in here.
I won't go schizo, will I?
There's a distinct possibility.
Hey Flounder, you can't spend your whole life worrying about your mistakes, you fucked up, you trusted us.
ECB being a bondholder of Laiki bank saved its 9bn euros by transfering to the "good" part whereas Laiki depositors got shaved
The normal process is bankruptcy court to dispose of the bond and shareholder capital first, not attack deposits first. The bank can continue to operate under government control, if it is caught by regulators before all the capital is gone and then the bank is liquidated or recapitalized and uninsured deposits might take a loss.
All of these current procedures are abnormal because the entire banking system is a festering wound operating without rules, and instead arbitrary authoritarians make it up as they go.
Now it's 80%, Bitchez!
@ 21:19
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt-crisis-live/9953844/Cyprus-bailo...
lol- they must testing to see how far they can go before the people get serious about gallows, guillotines, et al
And still not a word about derivatives, or what that tsunami will do to them.
They really are clueless. Ben must be shitting razor blades.
They ain't clueless, they don't care about derivatives only on small players they kill off. It is about owning ALL OF IT.
So far, so good.
Answer: $380 BILLION per month in total QE. That official $85B/month is window dressing as the real figure is OVER $380B and accelerating, and they can't answer to anyone because it is a "nati0na| s3cuirty risk"... as in, if the truth was told, the whole house collapses.
You do the math. They need to keep the facade together for 197 YEARS AT THAT RATE of $380B/month just to fund the next 20 years of total debt! Let that sink in. The numbers are astounding. In short, it's a mathematical certainty the global ponzi will fail within the next 12 months, and by fail it means one of two things- hyperinflation or total collapse and BOTH of these situations lead to the war Albert Einstein talked about...
We are all ponzians now, as The classic guru would say today. So, buy physical bitcoins!
By then it's too late.
"Levy On Wealth Is Defendable In Principle"
Is holding a financial gun to people's heads while they are robbed also defendable??
Yes, but only in principle.
Confiscation of all wealth transferred through fraud or criminal malfeasance to the financial elite is also defendable in principle... no?...
If not now.........wait a minute, they'll change the law retroactively.
<See... all legal like. Now that wasn't so bad, was it?>
Life just sucks being a law abiding 'Patriot'...
I wantsta be a banksta...
Banksta what I wants to be...
Bleed the silly sheeples dry...
Owns all gubmit comittees...
What in the heck is going on RIght NOw in Milan and Madrid, is what i'd like to know. Nothing?
A foreboding sense of doom and apprehension at present.
When the full extent of level of the theft, future capital controls, and the victim list is more widely known I expect we will see just how fast scared money can move.
The current record is 186,000 miles per second... that's 300,000 km/sec for our friends across the pond...
Well, since socialist “market” economics is a convenient fiction for the psychopaths running the show, take her to warp factor 9, Ms/Mr Sulu..
"... that's 300,000 km/sec for our friends across the pond..."
There's a pond between Canada and the USA? ;-)
Must be the one where all the canoes full of silver tip over.
Damn it feels good to be a banksta...
These morons don't know when to shut the hell up. A lot of people will soon think killing bankers and politicians is "defendable in principle," if they haven't thought it already.
IT's why God gave us rope and lamposts. WE spend billions for prisons to lock up thieves, and if that doesn't work then justice may be better served by the hands of the moral majority.
How can we possibly justify killing banksters?
~~~
Most of them are fucking jews... Wouldn't that be, like, advocating for another holocaust? You'll have to be remanded to a 'thought crime' camp...
Why do you work for the Elite as an internet troll trying to shift the blame from people, who truly deserve to be punished for what they have done? Don't work for them anymore they are pure EVIL. They want to kill or enslave all of us, even you and your family. When in human history has doing whatever you want worked? Men are not gods, only men, no matter what their satanic brainwashing says. There is still time to look to a loving God for forgiveness, and work for real good. Just saying.
Yes SMG ~ francis_sawyer is clearly 'Satanic'... Thank God [YOUR God ~ the only real & reputable God], for people like you to patrol the internets & make humanity safe from evil... I'm sure we would all perish otherwise...
~~~
Praise RELIGION [for that matter]... For without it ~ How could anybody be capable of free thought?... I mean, like, this is my favorite week of the year... I so enjoy walking outside watching the cows, bees, birds, flowers & fauna all getting together for their Easter & Passover celebrations... & it's so nice to know that those 'Satanic' bugs, fleas, ticks, & fungus will be banished to the 9th level of hell because of the pious prayers of all the flower & fauna...
~~~
Edit: Yes folks... IN FACT... It is from that fermenting mash of brainwave patterns that francis_sawyer finds himself doing battle with every day on ZH...
Quite simply there is good, and there is evil. Being good doesn't forbid free thought.
GOOD:
Treat others as you would want to be treated.
Love and forgive others.
Be generous to others, and try to improve the lives of others.
Protect the innocent.
Promote faith, hope, and love. (God)
EVIL:
GOOD: Up arrowing your own comments because of your justified self righteousness
EVIL: any comment by francis_sawyer the devil worshiping blame shifter
Looks like you've got a couple of banksters junking you. Nothing a bit of rope won't cure.
No shit, I cannot believe Dieselbomb has not STFU.
Quit fucking diggin.
All these fucking technocrats do is talk and try to explain why they are so smart, meanwhile entire economies are imploding due to their words.
Somebody put a bullet in this fucker, it surely would be "defendable in principle" a hell of a lot more than his fucking excuses for bankster robbery of people.
pods
I am starting to wonder if he isn't blowing the whistle on the scheme set up that he knows will destroy his country just like any other? One mistake and forced retraction that he didn't appear to make, but had it made for him is one thing. But a second statement and a forced retraction by Eunatics is quite another.
Maybe he he is really brave? You don't tell TPTB to go fuck themselves that often and keep your job.
Stalin did...
Lenin Did...
Marx did...
Hollande does...
Obama does...
Did you miss the word SUCK?
I'll take "They Made Shit Up As They Went" for $200.
Robbers can be shot while in the act of theft. Bankers get government appointments.
Robbers don't know jack about theft.
HERE'S A TRULY GREAT VIDEO...GLENN BECK GETS A HELLUVA SUNDAY SCHOOL LESSON
WE ARE NO LONGER IN A 'CAPITALIST' SYSTEM....WE ARE IN A "CREDITIST" SYSTEM
RICHARD DUNCAN LAYS IT OUT FOR GLENN BECK, IN ALL ITS UGLY GLORY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iyCt0uwNWs
CREDITISM ? In Russia they call it Reaganomics because it was Reagan's invention to prop up the demand by consumer credit
Maybe old Diesel Boom is trying to warn people..............
All your euro are belong to us!
Anyone can create a job. But only a bankster can create a euro.
[Denial follows in 20 minutes.]
Pay your fair share, Bitchez!
FORWARD!
Next step will be confiscation on accounts under 100k if you make too much salary. Kinda surprised they haven't done that yet.
simple!
Look at France and Belgium!
The more you make, the higher the taxes are!
And once you make 8000€ a month, you can't make more because taxes take all the rest.
Pussy Riot! (Not relevant, but I like to say it.)
I like a wild pussy!
Wild...... tasting? Like gamey?
It's not defendable when you do it without due process, asshole.
The EU has already shown that their own laws on capital controls and depositor guarantees mean nothing, so defendable means whatever the hell these sociopaths say it means.
"Due process" will be applied retroactively.
FOARWARD.
Sorta like our bankruptcy laws can be ignored if it helps the UAW, Obama style.
The politicians always exclude themselves and their allies.
In the United States, even with due process it would be unconstitutional.
As long as the principle isn't "private property" i.e. it's "defensible" as long as you start from the place where the state ultimately owns everything.
Right? Disgusting.
Screw the spiderman towel. Pull your funds out and starve the beast. Its the only option you have.
Under ALL Banking rules whatever the amount OVER the guarantee by the Soverign is FAIR GAME.
If someone is STUPID enough to have MORE than is guaranteed, they deserve to be cleaned.
Where WE should draw the line is anything at, or under MAX insured by Bank, is Untouchable and fully insured.Period.
And no not taking up for banks( I hate them), just stating what SHOULD be obvious to anyone who can read the friggin fine print.
True that, but that wasn't the original plan. It still destroys the myth of private property in the face of gargantuan sovereign debt.
Pull your money out. That's fine.
They'll just change the currency on you, make the old currency illegal, and buy your old currency back at half on the dollar/euro in new currency.
As long as they are in power they win. We cannot get them out of power because they won't allow it. The solution to that lies somewhere between total destruction and total ruin. Which are not the same thing, please note, but they both manifest in the same terrible dark part of human history.
That's the heart of the matter, isn't it? And you can hear that viewpoint quite clearly in the way Krugman recently justified capital controls for the US.
These people don't believe we earn or own anything; they believe what we have is solely what the government in its beneficent glory has given us.
"All your wealth are belong to us." - Troika
<We blew it years ago so now we're taking yours. What ya gonna do about it?>
the wealth tax is one of the biggest reasons martin armstrong believes there will be no hyperinflation. The guy has been on the money so far.
Fucking horseshit. Proper capital formation comes from the root of the econmy, The jobs the growth, not made out the premise of bullshit of banksters.
Martin Armstrong is just happy to see the sunlight, I says.
I love DieselBoom - just a matter of time before it all goes "BOOM" - he is just adding fuel to the fire.
I think DieselBoom is a controlled deliberate "truth" teller and not the loose cannon he is being portrayed as. The game has changed and someone needs to convey this. Why not now with tiny Cyprus so that Greece 4.0, Italy 3.0 etc are not a surprise when they announce the rule changes.
<There will be many changes and "truth" tellers on the road to perdition.>
Dovetails nicely with Bloomberg's "get used to Big Brother" comment.
You know how Bloomberg loves to have global bankers over to his palace to sit on his faux-leopard print couch and show them his Klimpt.
I take it a Klimpt isn't a soda machine.
CogDis, you beat me to it. It's "unpossible" that the media publish so much truth (if even by the normal relative standards of their anti-truth) without it being the result of marching orders given to the Main Stream Financial Proxy Media Puppet Mouthpieces.
DieselBloomberg.
jizzelbag
Show them his what?
<Wait....I don't want to know. Really.....I don't.> :)
Pardon, Klimt.
You probably guess that I don't own one myself.
No kiddin'
I'm ready to fight
I've been lookin' for Euros all night
If I don't get them in my sight
Diesel Boom boom! RIGHT HERE! Out go the lights!
All credit to Pat Travers Band
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdaDZslJavA
http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/p/pat_travers/
Most politically incorrect song ever. Almost as bad as my avatar.
His fellow European finance ministers are going to call up the Russians and send them right over for a nice "chat". Unless he shuts his mouth.
Count on it.
Shit, meet fan.
Many miles to go before I sleep the real shit hits the fan.
No doubt right CD. It takes a long time for the ship of state to sink.
At least, the Tylers provide some great entertainment.
The shit has been piling up near the fan and waiting for that big shove forward.
PEople create, banks create shit so need somewhere to put it. Have your disinfectant ready.
The ship of state does not sink now. That concept belonged to an earlier time when there were barbarians ever at the gate ready to pounce. The ship of state would in the past weaken until old enemies could take over, making for a new start.
There are no barbarians now. So now the ship of state gradually dies in place becoming a festering ghost ship crewed by zombies and insane cannibals. It glides silently into unsuspecting, sleepy communities and off loads its gruesome cargo of pestilence, corruption, theft and disease. By the morning sun nothing is left alive but everything is sucked to death, drained and skeletal.
Then the ship of state moves on, looking for something else vibrant and healthy that it can soul-rape into terrified, mindless ruin.
Welcome to the end. Hold your children. The vampires are waking and they are now going to devour the entire world and nothing -- absolutely nothing -- can stop them.
better be sittin on the can
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBlLbNVBKCc
So if we have a worldwide wealth tax and everybody becomes a lot less wealthy at the same time due to to the fact that people worldwideare liquidating to meet or beat said wealth tax,how do we determine hoiw much and at what rate to tax said wealth?. It's a conundrum for sure. I think the Bernank's presses are going to be overwhelmed.
The most important thing is that Exxon and GE etc pay no taxes. everything else can be worked out.
If they were to keep their money in the U.S., it couldn't be wealth-taxed. Food for thought Exxon and GE (and all you other corporations keeping your money out of the U.S.).
If they paid taxes, the costs would be passed on to us. We are the end of the line.
OK, let me see if I got this right. The S&P is about to set a record high, albeit on vapor thin volume. Now, the equity markets are flying because money is being counterfeited as rapidly as possible by the Fed, and distributed to the banks at 0% interest so that they can buy said equities. Since that is going so well, and they've told us the recovery has been underway for quite a while now, next they may have to steal our money so that our future prosperity will be assured.
Nope, I still don't get it.
Who gets the stolen money anyway, the government or the banks?
They're sharing.
Also, what difference does it make if one person is for quite some time in a prominent position of govt and than a bank? Whenever he's cashing in makes little difference - it counts that he spends it on himself and his causes.
Does it matter? To quote Carlin for the 1000th time, "It's a big club and you ain't in it."
I've been thinking about the vapor thin volume. Take a look at the daily volume of the ~$275M NYSEARCA:SIL . Less than $200K changed hands today. That is less than a tenth of 1% of the market cap. I think the global and US economic picture is painted (with distortions few people see) very clearly for everyone to see. It is like a Rorschach test now, and the personalities of people don't change very fast. I think everyone has pretty much settled on an interpretation and a strategy to either profit from it (optimists/momos/algos) or ride it out (pessimists/realists). Only when the distortions are no longer maintainable will there be any volume.
Wait till the defense argument at this clowns murder trial.
There would be no murder trial. An award ceremony maybe...
Exactly.
Orient Express?
A death of 10,000 cuts?
NO, death by 10,000 pricks, coming from Washington and beyond.
Opulence... I don't has it.
This guy should just STFU. He is his own worst enemy. Amazing.
Let him talk.
Who knows, his words might be the epitaph of current cronyist system in Europe if he gets good timing and a hard-hitting sequence.
It isn't Levy you liar, it is ROBBERY
It isn't a penalty, it's a tax.
It isn't my thumb, it's my dick!
EurUSD at 1.2856, Gold at $1,600/oz, S&P500 @1561pts...they are all fucking sheep heading to the slaughterhouse...They deserve everything coming their way...
So. If the state is bankrupt, and the banks are insolvent. Then who exactly pays the deposit guarantee in a monetary union which simply "printing money" is not possible?
Is that a fatal flaw I spy?
Bernanke.
exactly.....The Fed, the FRN, the petro-dollar and the Reserve currency all survive to fight another day........God Help us
Nobody... The 100k limit does not exist in practice.
How much did Bernanke send to Europe after 2008?
He opened swap lines so the precise answer would be 0. But i agree that there will always be excess liquidity to banks to hide/postpone insolvency. However, if enough ppl understand that the central bankers are only powerful as long as there are enough people who "have faith", this liquidity doesn't help anymore... Our current system depends on faith of the masses and (central) bankers know and use this to keep the status quo/enrich themselves (by borrowing at 0% and lending at 3-4-5-%). This Cyprus issue can open the eyes of a lot of people and have great consequences for banks/ruling elites. Bad in the short run, but necessary and unavoidable in the long run.
Nope, the fund is set up by banks for that effect.
What he meant is funds' coverage is nationwide, so each national fund covers accounts opened at the local agencies only (including at non-EU banks) - eg: an account at a foreign bank in Portugal, is guaranteed by the Portuguese fund, and vice-versa. But the funds are financed by the banks/credit institutions themselves and central banks.
http://www.fgd.pt/en-US/OFundo/Pages/default.aspx
He got it wrong.
It's actually a levy on principles, defendable by wealth.
To wit, the midnight expatriation of the Russians' and Londoners' money, leaving the poor saps in Cyprus with their lousy 10K or 20K in "Cyprus Euros" locked down under capital controls.
I think an official name change is in order. The EU will know be known as the Eurape Union.