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Dijsselbloem: "Levy On Wealth Is Defendable In Principle"
While France's Hollande and Spain's Rajoy are double-teaming the 'unique, exceptional' nature of Cyprus, the non-template nature of the 'deal', the need for Europe-wide guarantees, and that the ESM should be used to recap banks and not depositors, none other than Dutch FinMin Dijsselbloem is at it again as he admits what many have suspected:
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS LEVY ON WEALTH IS DEFENDABLE IN PRINCIPLE
and, as if responding to the desperate French and Spanish leaders:
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS DEPOSIT GUARANTEE SYSTEMS ARE NATIONAL
It would appear our views are increasing appearing true - that a wealth tax is coming in much more systemic a manner than many expect currently.
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We need to have everyone living in misery and poverty. How else can you convince a people to fight in a world war!
Most dumbfucks in the US are worried about what Kim Kardashian thinks. They think Troika is something you get a shot in the ass for at the public health clinic. I'll be withdrawling all but enough to pay bills. The rest will be hidden away along with gold and silver.
"Kim Kardashian thinks..." Now you've got me worried.
Most people's brain is in their ass anyway, so maybe she has some game?
Obama is prepping all of us with the selfish and evil 1% narrative. You know, these are the people who wouldn't have gotten where they are without the government.
And they will stay there, after all suitable loopholes will be left in place.
Let's consume all excess and all savings too! Let's see if this supreme spending spree will end with prosperity... or Hayek's triangle will get much, much shorter with zero investment and near-zero-length production processes, leading to extreme drop in efficiency, misery and maybe even mass starvation.
Someone throw a clog at the fucking Dutch guy, he's ruining everything.
It took four days for Romania to transition from stable ex-Soviet client, to Ceaucescu swinging from a lamp post. I don't think these fucking morons realize how much our system is based upon FAITH.
And they are giving us a shining example of why you should have NO faith. This won't end well.
THey want you to base your faith on fear.
So the problem is not with the object of the faith, but with the believer (who can't withstand any challenge of his faith)???
Telling folks they just need more faith when the object of their faith is false, weak, inefficient, inept and riddled with design flaws seems misguided.
Duplicate
Is it only cash that defines wealth? What about stocks, bonds, gold, real estate, racing horses. Easy enough to change cash into any of those to avoid a 'wealth' tax.
Lock out as much as possible to squeeze whatever savings are left... but leave some loopholes for your friends.
Wealth taxes tax all wealth, horses included
Racing horses....I can eat RACING HORSES!
As a matter of fact, I probably already have courtesy of my local regional grocery store.
Let's see how he thinks about that, if I start taxing his wealth.
I wonder what principle that is. The principle: I can take you stuff, but you can't take mine?
"Must....Drive....Euro....Lower!"
Is over a cliff low enough?
Under $1.20 would do nicely, I think.
Most people have no wealth, so they won't complain. Hell that got Obama elected.
and most people have no brain either
Hell, how about no good choice. The positon should be a posting for help wanted on sesame street.
If a global wealth tax were enacted in order to reduce debt-to-GDP ratios to sustainable levels what's to stop business,
households and governments simply running debt back up to unsustainable levels, thereby necessitating another wealth
tax further down the line? Could this be the model for the Western eceonomic "growth" for the next 20 years? As I see it,
reducing debt-to-GDP ratios to sustainable levels would simply be a green light to run debts back up again to unsustainable
levels.
Can we please just take out the old closing high at 1565, so we can all press sell at the same time. :-)
Why are so many ppl here bashing this guy? He should be a ZH-er's wet dream... Finally someone who speaks the truth, scares the shit out of bankers and status quo-elites... Of course in the proces of restructuring banks, some deposits may get hurt as well, but only AFTER the equity stakes, junior debt and senior debt holders have been wiped out. Cyprus could be start of the long awaited "Reset"
who is bashing him? The fact that he has not had his balls stuffed down his throat after yesterday means someone wants him out there saying all this. Something stinks.
I am, for one. I don't give a shit what he SAYS, I care what he DOES (and has done).
Right now he has stolen 9B of depositor "savings" to bailout his buddies at the ECB and by extension De Nederlandsche Bank.
Scratch beneath the surface...
Dear Menheer FinMin,
The person who just took the wheels off your car also said that his act was defensible in principle.
PS Remind the Germans that collective insanity is not a goal to be strived for.
Inflation...
This might be the very thing that ignites inflation in the U.S. When people finally realize that money is safer in the U.S. when arbitrary taxation is considered, all that money flooding back will start prices skyrocketing.
I'm going to need another mattress for my cash stashing...
DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS just try to arrest me suckers.
JUST AS NEW REGULATIONS ON DERIVITIVES GOES INTO EFFECT CYPRUS WEALTH CONFISCATION SENDS FINANCIAL WORLD INTO TAILSPIN
[link to www.sfgate.com]The $639 trillion over-the-counter derivatives market began the largest transformation in its 30-year history Monday with rules intended to contain another financial crisis, trimming profits for Wall Street banks.
Companies from JPMorgan Chase to BlackRock are now required under the 2010 Dodd-Frank Act to have most of their privately negotiated swaps trades backed by a clearinghouse that's capitalized by the world's largest banks.
That means dealers and their customers have to post up-front collateral to absorb losses if a firm defaults and settle daily losses.
Regulators are overhauling a market that complicated efforts to untangle the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression by obscuring how interconnected and vulnerable banks had become to each other.
Executives from at least three dealers are concerned they may not be ready for a surge in cleared trades, while Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. said the rules may cut pre-tax margins at bank trading units by a third
This is only the pre-announcement of a full emplloyment program. Just like Fwance in the 80s which saw tax inspectors coming into your home to tax your VCR (I kid you not), the Europeans have figured out a way to bring down those 50% youth unemployment rates. Why stop at bank accounts? Tax home computers, Nike sneakers, grandma's silver, etc. Legions of unemployed college-educated Europeans can sally forth into homes and businesses to ferret out "wealth" for taxation purposes. Lower unemployment, raise government revenues. What's not to like? Win-win!
So this is what Draghi meant when he said, "we'll do anything it takes to keep the EuroBone together!"
levy on wealth is defendable in principle?
okay, so is lynching banksters and their crony politicians.
Many of these accounts are corporate accounts used for buying materials and meeting payroll. So levying a haircut on payroll funds means workers face double taxation. The Norwegians operate their payrolling of crews from Cyprus, other companies fund citrus production, hotels, boats, and Russians even trade between Russia and Cyprus. How is expropriating these business accounts going to help trade ? The other part of Cyprus is Turkish but Turkey depends on exports to Russia and has huge contracts for construction, breweries, jewelry etc in Russia some of which is probably funded via Cyprus-based companies or investors. The ramifications of this stupidity are major just as if Bernanke decided a 10% levy on all New York accounts not insured by the FDIC to help pay for QE and bailouts
Axel Springer is trying to leech off Norway's cash already...
ssshhh dont give him any ideas you know his butt buddy krugmon is down with confiscation
All money is always subject to double-taxation. Actually, all money is subject to n-tuple taxation.
As soon as they find the perfect wording that the people won't revolt on and gives them warm fuzzies as to why taking
their money is good for them the game is on. They seem to have been trying out different versions of wordage to basically
retract and say another way until the final product is "We are taking your money and their is nothing you can do about it" no matter what
And the peasents rejoice!
Patriot contribution?
"if we can save just one child" ?
This is Europe, there is no executive.
Do not mistake incompetence and chaos for systematic planning.
The Cyprus bail out was a bungled disaster that has done far more harm than good. This was not by design it was by feckless and disjointed government.
This is government by bar room brawling. It is mindless, illogical and emotionally charged. Nobody has any control. The fighting will continue until the last man is standing OR outsiders arrive to break it up.
You're on the money, Black Market! Governments aren't as smart all the time as we give them credit for. Bungling is a much better title for the strategy on display in Cyprus.
Bad thing is, as these intractable debt problems get handed off into an ever smaller pool of players the IQ doesn't go up but ego does.
Why isn't everyong in Europe just buying gold?
Hookers and blow are more fun.
suspiciously cheap
Everyone with an ounce of common sense already has.
"Why isn't everyong in Europe just buying gold?"
1. The smart one's already have.
2. Ask the average Cypriot on the street if they'd rather have some gold or some cash right now. Currency is in demand and supply is short.
meantime in Cyprus ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbwqeSV8Wc4
*GREEK FINMIN SAYS CYPRUS DEAL NOT A TEMPLATE
OK, let me try and see again if I can figure this out. Now, in order to help do our part to stimulate the economy what we need to do is stand by and let the banks steal our money, because having access to infinite amounts of money at 0% from the Fed is simply not enough for the poor banks. When the banks add our money to their infinite pile, then the economy will be stimulated.
Nope, I'm still not getting it.
you are on way to getting IT!
*DALEI LAMA SAYS CYPRUS DEAL NOT A TEMPLATE
So it's pretty clear that this is eventually going to happen in the US... in what form will this wealth tax present itself when it arrives? (non-stealth versions)
And even if they don't actually 'grab' your money out of the bank via a wealth tax, they will apply a 'means test' to any government benefit - essentially meaning that you will NOT get your full government benefit until you clean out your bank accounts, investment accounts, retirement accounts, etc. This is the singular reason for the government tracking ALL of your financial moves.
Yep, and don't think they won't just because they can print here. They will continue to print for the Treasury and TBTF for liquidity purposes, but they will use the big kahuna "haircut" to recapitalize the TBTF system. As with almost everything, the if is not the question, but the timing certainly is.
A wealth tax is unconstitutional in the U.S.
The estate tax is a wealth tax...
Well, THAT certainly makes it impossible!
Because clearly, the US federal government has never overstepped its constitutional limits on power.
the problem is that the deposits UNDER 100keuro ARE BEING TAKEN...cap controls limit the user taking their money out so it is trapped FOREVER...! sure they let you take $30 out a day at an ATM...big fucking deal. they have locked the deposits up....
Party on! Just don't forget the final play:
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."-- Thomas Jefferson
Read more: http://www.quoteworld.org/quotes/12166#ixzz2OfeeZ6E9
Serfs up....peasants are revolting....and they stink on ice too.
*DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS LEVY ON WEALTH IS DEFENDABLE IN PRINCIPLE
I have heard this one before: what's theirs is theirs, what's mine is theirs and I should be grateful for what they leave me IF they leave me anything.
Sorry, no more involuntary taxes from me.
Der Boomer isn't going to have to wait for a Russian hit man to come get him now. This reminds me of the Pink Panther film where every agent in Europe was trying to kill Clouseau.
It appears that the time for prepping & stacking is growing very short...
off topic but might be interesting:
Hi guys, I'm wondering if somebody could help me out with this question?
Since I saw a lot of clever people on zerohedge I turn to you with this one:
if you have a 10 dollar bill and I have ten one dollar bills ... would you have a problem with exchanging the bills? I dont think so. Both are legal tender.
Now, my question is: why does the mint have a problem with the same operation only the other way round. It is, I will give them a 10 dollar bill and they should give me 10 one dollar (face value) silver eagle coins... They are both legal tender no??
Any thoughts about it?
Oliver
The coins were minted in the Tardis, they are dimensionally null. And they were stolen by the transcendant beings, who are trapped in the past.
Nobody has to make change, if they don't want to.
The whole problem here is that this is a tax straight into the central banks. What more proof do you need that they are really for-profit enterprises, rather than the guardians of our economies.
Do it through the tax code with our governments being the recipient and I actually prefer this type of tax over the income tax. However I am not in favor of bailing out central bankers exuberant money policies without making them pay the price. Every unit of currency overprinted ends up being destroyed. That is simply the nature of the current financial system.
Tyler,
Not too long ago a piece appeared on ZH that showed that since" Sept 2012 the Fed pumped some 900 billion into foreign banks, mostly European". I assume there has been much more injected besides this report. What exactly has become of all the what will end up being US taxpayer dollars that were injected into these banks?
Cyprus, massive global debt, Derivatives and the end game....
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/3/25_Cy...
“The problem that goes unremarked, because nobody wants to talk about it, is the amount of debt in the world. Egon von Greyerz has referred to it on several occasions, and it must be roughly $200 trillion. This is in a world economy that would be about $70 trillion per year. When you superimpose on that another at least one quadrillion dollars of derivatives, many of which are seriously mispriced and are just riddling the banking system, there are no solutions to this.
The idea that we can grow ourselves out of this is preposterous because anybody who understands anything about Austrian economics realizes that the deeper you get into a credit cycle, the more and more debt creation you need just to create a real dollar of GDP growth. But the problem is we can’t support the debt we have right now. So the idea that we will have sustainable growth going forward is just vacuous. It isn’t going to happen.”
Q: What does a "levy on wealth" have to do with a "bank deposit levy"?
A: nothing
its not a levy on wealth its a levy on idiots holding their wealth in banks that are levered to the hilt. They should have to pay for their bad decision making.
Let the idiots pay after the Rothschild Sassoons.
will sombody think of the rich people?
Confiscation of 90% is the Law
Anyone who thinks P o t US is not carefully gagging european public reaction is going to be too late to save themselves.
Another fucking son of a bitch; more and more deranged "politicians", elected by no one, open up their dirty mouth and shoot to kill.
Wrteched drug addicts, one day you will be terminated...painfully.
ZH doesn't seem to get that:
"FDIC" IS a national issue.
Cyprus does need to pay for their OWN mistakes
There is no Dijsselbloem-gate, the man never initiated the use of the word Template, reuters did.
When a bank defaults, it is good to take money from the risky and rich fdic uninsured money first, and restructure the bank, as is done here.
What risky money, muckerfother? In Europe, there is something called a "current account" where you just place cash for expenses and from which you can set up term deposits (2 weeks, 1 month, 3 months...) for 1 to 4pc interest depending on principal. How is that risky in your sick conception of the world?
I'm from Europe and familiar with it, what you describe is not the risky type no, the risky is bankbonds and depositos, and accounts with money exceeding the national insurance ("FDIC") amount.
Look, I'm in Portugal. I'm over 40. I know where they went and took the cash from, and I know where they would go and take the cash from here. Any other belief is irrational, but you can sail down the Nile anytime...
Anyone saying that a deposit, to-order or for a 3m term is a risky asset that should be subject to haircuts, is out of their mind. Besides even if it were, I don't see the State rushing to pay for 40% of my car whenever my wife crashes it. nd good it doesn't, I just hope it would leave everyone alone.
That Dijsselbloem quote may have come directly from the Dutch manual,
"De opdrachtgevers van psychopathische bankiers en hun marionetten."
Hey Dis'll BlowEm: Lets see you impose capital controls that prevent further withdrawals such as occurred today from from these bank equities: SAN -2.8%, NBG -8%, BMA -5.6%, UNCFF -3.4%, and others.
+1000 for "Dis'll BlowEm". You're hilarious.
The reckless, greedy fools have bankrupted their banks and near everyone else with debt and leverage. Now they want to grab anything they missed. I'm pretty certain that the personal assets they want to confiscate next will not include their own, personal ill-gotten gains.
We will look back at these events unfolding in europe as the trigger that begins gold long much to hights unkown.
It might also convince corporations that paying U.S. taxes isn't such a bad thing after all. A wealth tax is unconstitutional in the United States. Perhaps the only country in the world that can't do it.
It's called the estate tax.....
Here's canada's bail-in plan
http://www.americanbanker.com/bankthink/canadas-bail-in-plan-for-systema...
Why save?
Such a tax is an unconstitutional capitation tax in the United States.
i think we should honour this man, who dares to have the rich people and their compagnies pay a part of the damage instead of just socializing the debts.
it might not be a good solution, but it is the other possibilities are worse.
i'm a fan.
Your "score" of ups to downs says a lot about who is still here commenting at Zerohedge. They don't seem to understand that when a bank blows up, that is, its assets have a market value well below the notional value of deposits and other liabilities, there are only two possible solutions:
#1) Those with skin in the game, including equity holders, bondholders, and uninsured depositors take the hit
#2) Even those without skin in the game take a hit in the form of TARP and QE.
When #2 was done, eveybody hated Hank Paulson and Bernanke. Now that #1 is being done, people hate Dijsselbloem.
There is no #3. I have no idea why posters here simply do not understand that. They seem to think there is somebody to whom they can say "f-off" and all the deposits will suddenly reappear. They seem to believe that rather than funding assets, deposits are just being watered and fertilized daily in some giant vault, and growing the interest. That is not an option, and would not be an option even under a gold system without fractional reserve. Gone is gone.
After all we now know about Euroland, anyone who keeps more than 100K in a euro-bank is an idiot.
The heroin/coke mix has been injected into the psychic bloodstream of Europe and the fat lady is clearing her throat backstage for le grande finale.
Popcorn and beverages FiSHeS. I (hope that we) will probably only see a show like this once a century.
We have a wealth tax here. Its called the estate tax.
Wealth tax -- same rationale as the US estate tax. It's just a pre-death estate tax. Both are wrong, but how else are the redistributionist collectivists going to accomplish their equal outcome goals more quickly?
under the velvet glove lies the iron fist.
bring it on.
velvet bullshit is so 2008-12 anywho.
Okay I'll bite, does anyone know when the wealth tax kicks in? Or will it consume another 5000 pages of our current tax code so Bankers, Lawyers, Politicians and Lobbyists are excluded.
In other words DO NOT SAVE, I get it. It's about Debt creation, not wealth creation. Silly me.
Who cares? ...And why does the Tyler's use CNBC terms like "Wealth Tax" rather than calling it what it is - Fucking THEFT of the highest order!!! ...Or even confiscation if you want to formalize the term. BTW, the europeans like us americans are so pathetic and been in a social coma for so long, what we've seen in Cyprus will continue AND WILL BECOME THE TEMPLATE FOR FURTHER LOSSES TO THE PUBLIC, and noone will do a damn thing except whine in their new found poverty. These are the same idiots who willfully handed over their guns...How much easier their money?
you don't get the message : we are drowning in debt as the crime of theft has already been committed; the crime of RETHEFT now has to be committed to reset the economy before it all disappears.
As there is no due process to right the wrong the punishment is getting two pronged; the only question is : who gets more of the second prong, the same 99% or the 1% as well?
This is now going to turn into a dirty power struggle; even more so than before.
The Central Money Authority propaganda talking points continue. "See what we're going to do to you folks? It's all printed, now go get it out of those accounts and spend, spend, spend.
Paper storm is on the way, buy wheelbarrows. Be sure not to leave leverage at home. Lowest interest rates ever! No credit check! No Doc! Snooze and you lose!"
Will it work?
Dutchy apparently didn't get the memo:
"When it's serious, you have to lie."
So much for on-the-job training.
"Levy On Wealth Is Defendable In Principle"
That is absolutely true..
In a collectivist dystopia where “wealth” is confiscated where and when the elite overlords decide it should be.
Depends what you class as wealthy I guess.
I'd probably class wealthy as millionaires and above.
Not people who have worked and saved hard to retirement and have a couple of hundred thousand Euros to their name.
They are destroying the lower and upper middle class basically.
We never hear about America's Oligarch's in the MSM press Like Buffet, Koch Soros or Carlos Slim.
They compare well with those Russian Oligarchs who are so manipulative in Cyprus plays. Read this from Naked Capitalism :
Why Does No One Speak of America’s Oligarchs? « naked capitalism
Hey next we place all people over 30 on iceflows. It's for the good of the Planet.
Children too...they're too expensive to raise.
"all people over 30 on iceflows"
I'd prefer good acid in the "Mercy Camps".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRNKmje-Abs
It's cool, babies, progressives are in control of the system.
Spoken like a pure, unadulterated #uckin bureaucrat... Socialism at its best. The ONLY reason they didn't do it to those below 100,000 Euro is simple - significant social unrest. Period.
As for those with links to Russia... fortunately bank branches were open in London to facilitate the back end leakage of funds for those not in the know... as reported on by ZH.
I'm not for screwing the rich... that's capitalism. What I'm for is ending crony capitalism.
The second statement is the more significant one. It is merely another way of saying "template". If deposit guarantees are national, he is stating future EU policy (which was implemented for the first time in Cyprus). If the next country to go belly up has the deposit insurance cash to make good, then that country can make its own depositors whole. If that country lacks the funds to do it, the EU/ECB is no longer going to cover the losses. In the instance of Cyprus the EU fronted the cash to make insured depositors whole, but told Cyprus uninsured depositors were their problem. Next time the EU may say no to helping make even insured depositors whole, or at least that is what "deposit guarantee systems are national" seems to suggest. If so, and depending on how bad the gap is between liabilities and MTM asset value, uninsured depositors could lose 100%.
As that sinks in, any expectation large depositors might have had that their bank might be treated like the Spanish banks were treated is going to fade away. Uninsured depositors will take a closer look at the viability of the banks where they keep their funds. They'll consider assets, capital and leverage, and derivative exposure. If the bank looks bad, they'll pull their deposit. To the extent that this view is widely held, large banks will shrink as deposits, aka funding, is removed. Assets will have to be sold. Banks will shrink in size, perhaps falling below that TBTF level. Selling assets will also cause prices to drop.
What QE and LTRO were to inflation (not so much considering the extent of the printing), this new policy of making those with skin in the game take the hit (rather than TARP or QE equivalents) might mean deflation is coming to an asset near you. If inflation goes, and Dalio's "beautiful deleveraging" (i.e., exactly filling in the holes left by vaporized debt) goes, all that is left is deflation.
If I were to bet, I'd say Bernanke does not like Jeroen Dijsselbloem.