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That Physical Gold You Thought You Owned? You Didn't
Earlier today, the CFTC issued an order and charges against two Boca Raton companies, (Joseph Glenn Commodities LLC and JGCF LLC, and their owners Scott Newcom and Anthony Pulieri) which accused the abovementioned of engaging in illegal, fraudulent off-exchange financed transactions in precious metals with retail customers, and also ordered them to pay over $1 million in restitution payments. Superficially, it would have been any other run-off-the-mill CFTC wristslap against an entity that is deemed not TBTF, and thus systematically relevant, in the parlance of the DOJ (unlike the Jon Corzines of the world, who are perpetually absolved of all crimes - actual and alleged), if only it wasn't for one small clarification at the end of the body.
The relevant section is bolded below:
The CFTC Order finds that from July 2011 through June 2012, the Respondents solicited retail customers, generally by telephone or through Joseph Glenn’s website, to buy physical precious metals such as gold, silver, copper, platinum, or palladium in what are known as off-exchange leverage transactions. According to the Order, the customers paid the Respondents a portion of the purchase price for the metals, and Joseph Glenn and JGCF purportedly financed the remainder of the purchase price, while charging the customers interest on the amount they purportedly loaned to customers.
[T]he CFTC Order states that when Joseph Glenn and JGCF engaged in these illegal transactions they were acting as dealers for a metals merchant called Hunter Wise Commodities, LLC (Hunter Wise), which the CFTC charged with fraud and other violations in federal court in Florida on December 5, 2012 (see CFTC Press Release 6447-12). Hunter Wise was purportedly Joseph Glenn’s and JGCF’s source for the metal and the loans. As alleged in the CFTC Complaint against Hunter Wise and according to the CFTC Order in this case, however, neither Joseph Glenn, JGCF, nor Hunter Wise purchased or held metal on the customers’ behalf, or disbursed any funds to finance the remaining balance of the purchase price. The Order finds that the Respondents’ customers thus never owned, possessed, or received title to the physical commodities that they believed they purchased.
In other words: that physical gold that your trusted "held" on your behalf... they never really held it, and neither did you. But don't worry: all the gold "held" by various brokers professing physical possession and not to mention thousands of assorted paper gold ETFs is certainly there.
After all, where else can it possibly be (certainly not in the 5th subbasement of 1 Chase Manhattan Plaza housing the largest gold vault in the world)
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Possession is the law! Bitchezz!
And fuck you too Bernanke
Buy physical gold from REPUTABLE people and take delivery. Simple.
WTF? Ashley Judd declares she will NOT run for the Senate, and you Zero Hedge fools are talking about fucking gold? Where the fuck are your priorities, bitchez?
Yo, unless it involves the flashing of her ta-tas on the campaign trail, a discussion about gold takes precedence.
+55 brother!
Scumbags in the physical gold biz? In Florida, no less? Shocker!
Here is one satisfied customers testimonial.
"They called me up with some really hot story about how precious metals are the best investment I could make. They told me I would make a lot of money and they would be guarding my account to make sure I was protected. What these thieves didn't tell me was that out of the $100,000 I sent them they took over $35,000 for commissions right off the bat!"
http://www.ripoffreport.com/investment-brokers/joseph-glenn-commodi/jose...
There's one born every minute...
A fool and his money are soon parted...
"...a fool and his money were lucky enough to be together in the first place." Gordon Gekko
Skimming from the big boys piece of the action get you more than a wrist slap.
Luckily, these dimwads aren't sleeping with the fishes.
Just checked the gun safe again. my silver, gold, guns and ammo still there. No counterparty risk, no rehypothication, no leasing, no fleecing, no Corzine risk, etc....
"If you can't stand in front of it and defend it with an AR-15, you don't own it." Ann Barnhardt
I'm not too impressed with the premise of this article. Or rather maybe with the conclusions drawn in the numerous posts. The fact that a judge found that the victims didn't own the metals they thought they had, could, on the one hand, be used to draw conclusions about whether any other third-party gold holdings are really holdings or not, but, on the other hand, could also be used as the justification for finding the defendents guilty of criminal fraud. (Which, rather pleasantly, is what they would deserve in a just world, not so easy to find recently or locally.)
But don't worry: all the gold "held" by various brokers professing physical possession and not to mention thousands of assorted paper gold ETFs is certainly there. After all, where else can it possibly be ...
But, but, what about Mr. Sprott?
Best way to protect your PMs is to store them in a timewell.
The trouble is taking delivery of the timewell. What company do you use for timewells?
When the West is forced to compete with the BRICS for Oil, on even terms, using Gold...well...FUBAR!
Visions of this kind of thing are the main reason I'm not in Sprott's products. The other reason is trans-border activity scrutiny/confiscation.
I wouldn't take kindly to paying some Smoot Hawley clone tariff penalty to get it back, even if it was still there.
Customers believed they were getting something for nothing.
Instead they were screwed.
Caveat emptor: if something sounds too good to be true ...
it is.
No counterparty risk?
http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/images/2011-04-05-ice-training-using-armored-vehicles.JPG
Molon Labe.
Go ahead DHS pukes. Make my day.
http://tinyurl.com/d32uhh5
Your .. tank has a .. problem. The barrel is taped off.
It's called a Dust Cover.
It's removable.
See: http://oi50.tinypic.com/xbgwn9.jpg
Or an AK.
The AK or AR-10 would be my preference, too. Ann Barnhardt prefers her pink AR-15:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qdvCBa9sE4k/TaC4ULkaiZI/AAAAAAAAAU4/NTzBOm6j8b...
or my favorite:
http://www.truthorfiction.com/images/AnnBarnhardt2.jpg
I love you Ann Barnhardt!
The fool being lucky is obvious. Implying fiat money are lucky if even (or especially if?) a fool accepts them is a good one. +1
I believe honest forms of money and honest people attract each other.
A fool and his gold is heavily armed.
A fool and his fiat currency is disarmed.
Probably more like five, judging from recent elections.
If someone ripped me off for 35k with a phone call I would probably just shoot myself for being such and idiot....right after I sent $10,000 to the Nigeria prince in jail so I can collect my $10 million to cover my $35k loss.
They did not mention anything about a boating accident either? C'mon guys get on board.
Can't wait for Ric Scott to get all over this shit. After all, he's spending more money to drug test welfare recipients than they get if they pass the test, so he must be going to go really hard on these assholes.
After all, he's spending more money to drug test welfare recipients than they get if they pass the test, so he must be going to go really hard on these assholes.
Feds said NO NO to this testing it's a NO GO.
Let's see. Boca RATon, gold, silver, platinum, big deposits, loans, and funny sounding surnames. What could go wrong?
But Horatio Caine will save us? ......Won't he?
He is real, no?..... Ahh, man, don't tell me he's not real...?
F@#K, I'd better get my gold back from those swarthy looking individuals in that gold depository down on Brickell Avenue....
I gave you green arrow #55.
+1 Thanks for help bringing it back into perspective. Its important not to get distracted during these difficult and trying times.
Absolutely.
Now if she had flashed and had gold rings stuck through her nipples we'd be right back on topic. She'd clearly be leveraging her assets for personal gain! ;-)
here ya go....
http://www.mrskin.com/ashley-judd-nude-c557.html?nats=MjQ2MTA6Mzox,0,0,0,0
Nice Nice Nice....lol.. "Here ya go", like, fuck, "it was sposed to be a secret, but, well, here ya go." ...awesome.
+1 Ohhhh fer suuureee! lol fuck, i don't know who down arrowed me. shit i was being sarcastic.
10 years ago maybe. Girl's gettin' old.
Reminds me. I need to get the old Primus LP out and listen to "Wynona's Big Brown Beaver". Haen't heard that in a while.
and keep it closeby
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2257209/Wealthy-Indian-Datta-Phu...
That was funny.
I'm sure all the bullion-hoarding banks that serve GLD have the gold.
I'm sure all the bullion-hoarding banks that serve GLD have the gold
Yep, likely they do,BUT, one caveat, you will never ,ever get it placed into your hands.
Likely they do not have it and also likely that you will never ever get it placed into your hands.
So what they are prosecuting them for, is something JP Morgan and all of them do every day. Christian admitted it was a 100 to 1 leverage. Yet that is ignored.
They always get the little guy that is muscling in on some of their action. It is the WS mob after all that has it's many government arms to take care of their problems. CFTC is taking care of this one for the mob.
I look forward to the "their stealing is far better than our stealing" defense.
They don't call Boca Raton the slime mile for nothing.
Mouth of the Rat!
i grew up there ;-)
I've been in the financial biz a looong time. Everytime I look at a regulatory action the first thing I assume is it involves a Florida/Boca firm. And very often, I'm right. I guess there is a new, fresh batch of retirees moving to the land of milk, honey and stupid money every day.
Orange juice, Latin music, Mickey Mouse and Spring Break are the only things I would trust with my money originating from Florida.
Google "American Precious Metals, LLC" to read the play-by-play prosecution and details of another bogus metals scam out of Florida and how they operated.
Caviet Emptor on all things Florida.
Buy physical silver from REPUTABLE people and take delivery. Simple.
(This works too.)
Buying from reputable sources is highly recommended, but NOT SUFFICIENT. You need to TEST the metal to verify its intrinsic value. This ability to accurately verify its value is one of the main advantages of precious metals versus most intangible (promise/trust based) and even some tangible assets.
Possession is 9/10 the law, but if the govt. does it they decide who gets the lion share percentage of that.
But your honor....we were only doing what our mentor's at JPM do....is that a crime
Buy your gold and hold it yourself. Better to buy it from a local dealer and pay cash so no one knows you own it.
+1, but I'd give you more if I could.
I don't see what the difficulty is here.
Get to know your local coin dealers, buy in bulk from reputable online joints, but always have it.
Paper gold/silver is about the dumbest thing I can think of:
You are opening yourself up to all paper risk, without pizzaz of the stock of the day.
You also HELP perpetuate the manipulation of the REAL PM market.
Anyone who is holding "shares" in PM this or that is actually PART of the problem.
Those "shares" are fucking conjured up through some crazy ass scheme that takes longer to explain the legality of than to have it blow up when a light is shone upon it.
Paper fucks go play in every other leveraged to the gills phony HFT scam, and let the REAL exhange rate between conjured fiat and precious metals be found.
pods
Unique circumstance.
Madoff to sue for copyright violation
Corzine gurgling his Bollinger laughing about the little guppies getting prosecuted, and gargling with it before bed.
...NOT a template.
Unique circumstance.
Yeah, like MF Global.
90 Year old judge can't see JPM's manipulation, fucking guy has fourth degree cataracts..This is one of those judges they dust off when needed..
Like Germany?
DON'T WORRY!!!
WE GOT A PLAN TO FIX ALL THESE PROBLEMS!!!
THE ENTIRE ECONOMY IS SAVED!!!!
And as long as nobody blinks their eyes we can implement....
FOR GOD SAKE!!! WHICH BASTERD BLINKED?!?!?!
YOU RUINED IT FOR ALL OF US!!!!
better start buying gold and silver peeps.... last call.... somebody just had t blink his eyes...
Wow. I guess they also ran canoe trips....
I have some silver Fiji Takus (as pictured in my avatar) coming in tomorrow from Gainesville. Luckily for me, the weather around these parts is gonna be just about perfect for taking a boat trip soon thereafter.
Snow's melting here fast; I practically need swim fins to walk down my driveway. I'm certain the order I placed last night won't make it from mailbox to house.
Edit: To clarify, I did not buy from Gainesville.
If you are talking about Gainesville Coins,, they suck. Took them over 3 weeks to deliver 20 ASE's which they claimed to have in stock. Will never order from the again. And anyone who supports them; work for them or they are them. f**k Gainesville Coins,
I know someone who has had good orders and bad orders with Apmex and Provident. I know the last time he ordered Maples from Provident, it took about a week longer than it should have and they didn't communicate the delay at all. I would imagine that their demand (and supply) would be fairly volatile and/or unpredictable, especially recently. This will be my first order through Gainesville.
After APMEX treated me like shit and told me lies about changes to operations and how my bullion would be shipped, I stopped buying from them. I put a TON of large orders to them in the past, but I said to myself that I'd never do it with them again. Silver Doctors has been great to me... and I've only placed small (couple thousand $ each) orders...
APMEX: You suck
CMI, Tulving, and Silver Doctors: Thanks for treating customers right!
What's the knock on Merit Financial?
I live by Gainesville coins.
Bought approximately 400 Silver Eagles in half-dozen trips.
One time the Guy behind the counter suggested I should store my Silver in their vault. I laughed in his face.
Last time I went there to get 100 Silver Eagles some guy I had'nt seen before was behind the counter. He was wearing grey and silver pants w/6" squares checkerboard pattern, a red polo shirt w/white horizontal stripes and a baseball cap on backwards.
Told him what I wanted and he said to leave my $3.500 cash and he'd call me later. I asked if he was out of his mind and turned to leave and their stood a HOMELAND SECURITY agent scowling at me. Have'nt been back since.
Crap. I guess those fedorists don't like us pulling paper out of their banker-overloads' system.
You burned money?
I can't speak for your experience but I can speak for mine. Used Gainsville no less that 20 times in 3 years and never had a problem. Recieved what I asked for. Professional. If you have a 1 time bad experience so be it. But times now are different and some of the dealers have a lag in delivery. SBSS was 6 weeks late on my delivery. Provident has been within a week and so has APMEX( course for the extensive premiums you better get the delivery in 3 days). Gainsville has always delivered my shit within a week to 10 days unless if was noted that deliveries would be delayed and I was advised at time of purchase.
EINSILVERGUY- Actually I really don't have a problem W/Gainsville Coins-Beautiful showroom-Usually had good service.
Having said that I ran a business for over 3 decades and learned early to NEVER give your customer a reason to shop elsewhere.
I was trying to spend money.
That day they made it difficult for me.
I went back to my computer and found another shop who had my request in stock ready to go.
And that's where I go now.
I'm sure they'll do just fine with out me.
I don't understand.
One can't possibly make a point without a message completely written in upper case.
Try that next.
I’ve had nothing but great service form Gainesville, while you go through the ordering process they tell you approximate delay possibilities...And their prices are consistently lower than APMEX. APMEX fucked me on some A-MARK bars supposed to be new, received ten in the order that looked like they where dragged behind a fright train.. I called them on it and they never returned my calls and e-mails so fuckummmmm.
I love the coin but buy it local.
GLD: worth the paper it's printed on.
well... you don't really get the paper either.... sorry.... it's just digital... they also lied about that one....
BITCOIN!!!
And SLV is not...
and while we're breaking the bad news....
the easter bunny?.....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33438581@N08/3432122365/in/photostream/ligh...
don't bother looking for eggs this year....
LOL, it's even worse than we feared! There won't be any eggs to hide!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94428289@N02?hide_photostream_welcome=1
Handsome dog. Seems quite satisfied.
Gold belongs in your home....digits can't be held or stacked.
+100
They'll have to get past me and my .45 ACP to get to my gold, Mother Fuckers!
make your own geo-caches. hide the gold in plain sight.
Growing up, I thought my grandfather was a kook for having a safe built into foundation of his house. Gaining more respect for him in these times.
+55 billion.
gotta 600 lb safe on order. I'm setting it into 3 cy of 7500 psi concrete. Ex wife is still laughin' at me........
he who laughs last......
Reversion to the mean. Bitchez.
but on youtube... these brokers said... they promised....
it must be other brokers...
Seriously?!?
"According to the Order, the customers paid the Respondents a portion of the purchase price for the metals, and Joseph Glenn and JGCF purportedly financed the remainder of the purchase price, while charging the customers interest on the amount they purportedly loaned to customers."
Dear Valued Customer,
Send ME ur money...I promise I'll by and hold it for you.....promise....cross my heart...
Sincerely,
Honorable Jon Corzine
Pinky swear?
according to the OBAMA GOLD REPATRIATION ACT....all holders of physical gold do not legally own their gold. the us government owns all gold within the borders of the usa.
a law coming soon....any bets...?!
well then that goes for bass, druckenmiller, cramer, schiff, einhorn, all the fed heds, paulson etc i wonder how thats going to go?
i watch cnbc everday and make sure kudlow bartirmo, liesman, pisani and the rest of them in the know hand all theres over too....
as long as its all equal
these guys are all 'super citizens' and can own gold.....
well then we are all screwed no matter what if there are 'super citizens' if thats acceptable to you or anyone else on this blog
acceptable or not...we will have casts of citizenship.
Molon Labe
According to my Springfields, I do in fact own it. Cousin AK agrees.
The M1A: "Bring Enough Gun!!!". Bravo bro...." CB
Used to own it. It's in Neptune's hands now.
What does Obama's son Drone think about it?
If you don't hold it, you don't own it, blah, blah, blah.
I'm tired of warning stupid people. Who wants to just drink scotch, smoke cigars and feed fiat $20 bills to stupid strippers while it all collapses?
Make mine a rum and I'm wichu.
BTW, the lap dance is always better when the stripper is cryin'.
he he. you know.....you're going to hell for that, dontchya.
For that, I believe he went to Frank's Chicken House in Manville, NJ.
Road trip!
Not like bawling crying. Just a little helpless whimper every now and then.
Right, I find it's quite a thrill when she grinds me against her will.
<Golf Clap>
Fuck it. Sounds good. Into the humidor I go.
Still have Davidoff's from the late 80's aging nicely Manip, think I will join you.
Lets go! They still have strip clubs in Panama City Beach don't they?
so few are gonna get through...
tippy canoe
and tyler too...
The Order finds that the privately held Federal Reserve Corporation’s customers thus never owned, possessed, or received title to the physical commodities that they believed they purchased.
"Where else can is[it] possibly be."
I have some of it Tyler and I intend to acquire MOAR. You can never really have enough. Takes up less space than the ammo too.
I always figured if'n I can't rub my hairy scrotum on it, it really ain't mine!
That was simultaneously factual and disgusting.
Well done.
Makes me worry for the mental well-being of his immediate family, progeny in particular.
LOL,
Nice of you to worry, but my children are just fine.
My 'girl' just got an appointment to Annapolis, and I expect even better things from my 13 yr old son.
Q: What kind of sickfuck down arrows a 17 year old girl getting appointed to the Naval Academy?
A: A member of the Obowel Movement, most assuredly!
Being indoctrinated at an even more militant indoctrination center is not something that should be praise.
If she's a Patriot and an Oath Keeper and will use those skills and weapons to defend The Constitution when the SHTF then good.
3:1 the down arrower has a shaved scrotum and is most likely a Reggie Love type
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttt Silver is antimicrobial ain't it?
Kind of cold but has done wonders for my jock itch.
Bollocks!
Buy lead and tell them you want your mother fucking gold or you're going to make another deposit.
Why would you want your mother doing it with PMs?
har har.. ;)
I'm awaiting a FedEx delivery of two kilograms of .999 gold bars from a desperate Nigerian Prince who needs to get it out of the country. I wired him $10,000 for shipping and bribe money to cover upfront costs. I get to keep one kilo for my efforts - he'll pick up the other when he gets out of the country himself.
What a maroon. I have no intention of giving him his kilo of gold. Once I take physical possession it's ALL MINE, sucker.
So watch out for scammers like me. Don't be a chump.
Gold Price Girls.....yeah baby!
In other news, 3 spanish banks just posted several billion loss...
https://twitter.com/russian_market/status/317036240232935424/photo/1
some banks shit their derivative junk earlier than others; the US being the last inner bastion of Pax Americana construct.
Who is tightening that noose or is it programmed on auto, inspite of Ben's helicopter?
Mutti is no longer a help, she and Bloom dust.
Whiney,whiney (what really drives me crazy) - Willi one blood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PSagoUHa6I
guns in each hand and gold arounds my neck BITCHEZ!!!!