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Santelli On The End Of Paper Gold's Reign

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Central Banks remain aggressive accumulators of the precious metal as we noted last night, as their actions outweigh their words; but as CNBC's Rick Santelli notes today, there is a big difference between the physical bullion they are buying and the 'gold bug' trading currently going on in our markets:

I don't even look at gold as gold anymore since they securitized it. If things [went] badly in the world that I used to observe (as a gold bug); the gold would end up in the hands of the gold bugs. If things go badly now, they're going to end up with checks from ETFs! Sorry, it's not the same. The reign of [paper] gold as the Ayn Rand endgame, to me, that's over. Game, Set, Match.

Which likely explains the incessant demand for precious metals from the US Mint over the past few months - as the other great rotation (from paper to physical) proceeds.

 

Starting 0:25 in this clip:

 

Perhaps these two charts will help explain the 'difference'... Demand continues to surge while 'prices' drop...

 

 

 

(h/t Alex Gloy of Lighthouse Investment Management)

 


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Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:00 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Global banking holiday starting easter thursday and no ending date in the horizon.

++ to Santelli for Ayn Rand ref.  99% of the population have no idea who Ayn Rand was.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:01 | Link to Comment McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

"Holiday! Celebrate!"

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:10 | Link to Comment BC6
BC6's picture

go long on divergence

and commmon sense charts

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:18 | Link to Comment macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

 

Cyprus Banking Question:

What happened to non-cash deposits in brokerage accounts? Were securities raided?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:22 | Link to Comment NaiLib
NaiLib's picture

nope too big to fail

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:46 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Real gold is a hard asset.  Paper gold is not!

 

"Review of American Hard Assets -- Issue No. 2"

http://tinyurl.com/cuo4z3s

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:52 | Link to Comment BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

The poster directly below me is a de facto TOOL

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 18:09 | Link to Comment Joe moneybags
Joe moneybags's picture

No, I am a FACTO tool, damit!

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 18:22 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

LOL, BoNeSxxx!

Next time, call the good Dr Krugman out by name though...

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 19:31 | Link to Comment Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture
3/27/2013 @ 3:29PM

 

Central Banks Bought More Than $3B In Gold In 2013: UBS

Data compiled by UBS shows central banks bought about 54 metric tons of gold in the first two months of the year; that’s more than 1.9 million ounces, or more than $3 billion at Wednesday’s prices (bullion stood at $1,606.30 an ounce by 3:36 PM in New York). South Korea, for example, announced it a purchase for 20 metric tons in February, while Russia is 19.2 metric tons deep in 2013. Other buyers include Kazakhstan (6.6 metric tons), Indonesia (1.9 metric tons), Bosnia and Herzegovina (1 metric ton), and Azerbaijan, which bought 2 metric tons after having zero gold reserves in over a decade.

. . .

Central bank purchases are clearly a bullish sign for investors, but by no means are an indication that the market is ready to turn. With the specter of rising interest rates an improving U.S. economy, along with expectations of a stronger U.S. dollar in the medium-term, gold will have to derive its support from continued flare ups of Europe’s sovereign debt crisis. But, if the U.S. continues on its upward path and Bernanke’s bloated balance sheet begins to feed inflation, gold may once again find its legs.

continued: http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2013/03/27/central-banks-bought-more-than-3-trillion-in-gold-in-2013-ubs/ 

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:22 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

So let me get this straight - the economy collapses, the power grid shuts down, the government comes for your guns, and people are fighting over food and water - how, pray tell, does having gold matter in this case?

Sounds to me like you will be clutching gold like a baby clutches a blanket.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:25 | Link to Comment Rubicon
Rubicon's picture

Cock

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:03 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Will all of you people please stop feeding this troll!

If you haven't noticed he derails every damn thread he's in.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:42 | Link to Comment Texas Ginslinger
Texas Ginslinger's picture

My wife asked a somewhat similar question last year.

"The silver and gold coins you are buying - what real value do they have"?

Walked to my library in the spare bedroom and found a book on archeology in the Mediteranian.

Showed her a photo of some of the earliest Greek gold and silver coins.

They had value then, they have value today, and they will have value into the future.

End of story.

The difference between my wife and PK is that she quickly understood.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 20:04 | Link to Comment Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

If you haven't noticed he derails every damn thread he's in.

You mean Krugman the Ferret?  He helps derail whole nations, what's a thread to him?

FORWARD KRUGMAN'S SOVIET!

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 01:25 | Link to Comment All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Just reply with this question...

"You might have missed this question the last 8 times I asked it, so here we go for try number 9 (and yes, I will continue to increment the numbers until you answer the question):

If growth is defined in monetary terms and money is debt (interest bearing), please explain how exponential growth of debt is sustainable into eternity.

If money (debt) exponential growth is not sustainable into eternity, then WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE EXPONENTIAL MONEY (DEBT) GROWTH FAILS?

I made the question bold in case you are having vision problems and couldn't see the question.  Hopefully this helps.

TIA..."

Dr. Paul Krugman will go away.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:28 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

So let me get this straight - the ONLY possible outcome to the ongoing failure of our current financial and monetary paradigm is: the economy collapses, the power grid shuts down, the government comes for your guns, and people are fighting over food and water?  Otherwise, everything remains more or less the same as it is today, indefinitely into the future?  Total collapse vs. status-quo?

Nice false dichotomy you're peddling there, Krudman.

 

PS:  Did you buy that mouthwash yet?  The rank odor still emanating from your every post indicates that you did not.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:37 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

The .001% of the world that are gold bugs/doomers and have a problem with the status quo want to see the world end, when the fact is the society we have developed over the last few hundred years (Democracy, heard of it?) suits everyone fine.  You all enjoy the liberties that we have established - weekends, holidays, minimum wage, equal rights - yet don't want to pay your fair share in taxes.  Then you become paranoid that the government we have built is after you.  Not everyone is angry about their lives like you.

Anyway, you didn't answer my question - what good is gold when the world as we know it has ended?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:41 | Link to Comment McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Not everyone is angry about their lives like you.

The people who are the least angry about their lives are the same people who use the coercive force of the government to steal from others. This includes the shiftless welfare class as well as the mega-wealthy.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:48 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Go ask the poor if they would rather take welfare or earn a decent living.  Then go ask someone with money - Warren Buffett for example - if they think they should pay more in taxes.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:49 | Link to Comment NaiLib
NaiLib's picture

Dr Krugman?

Are you the Real Dr Krugman that sang glory over Sweden a couple of weeks ago in Bloomberg?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 21:35 | Link to Comment dryam
dryam's picture

Do you all realize why Dr Paul Krugman posts here??

It's certainly not because he truly believes what he is saying, and it's not that he's just trying to get a rise out of everyone.

The reason he posts here is to hijack ZH threads & misdirect people from the real issues at hand.  Good threads that would generate good discussions get watered down & pissed away because of all the hyper-ridiculous thoughts from this poster.

He's duping all of you just like a handful of other posters who realize the threat ZH really is to the currupt status quo.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:50 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"Go ask the poor if they would rather take welfare or earn a decent living." -  If the value of their labor wasn't being stolen, they could earn a decent living you arrogant fuck.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:56 | Link to Comment ATM
ATM's picture

And we don't have to ask, all we have to do is observe. If they wished to work over receiving free money they would work, butthey do not. They line up by the hundreds of thousands every montht on get on the dole.

Question answered.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:04 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

That which cannot be sustained, won't be.  When the "dole" fails to sustain them, they will work or die.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:16 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Here, on this blog, it is pointed out that unemployment is high, yet when you want to put the weight of the world on the needy you ignore these facts!

How dare you!

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:22 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

If you really cared about the poor, you wouldn't support the theft of the value of their labor. 

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:33 | Link to Comment TruthHunter
TruthHunter's picture

"If you really cared about the poor, you wouldn't support the theft of the value of their labor." 

 

With wages flat for 10+ years except for the ~1%, who's doing the "theft"?

Who benefits from deficit spending? Isn't it those with access to free money to turn around and "lend"

to the gubment?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:37 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

85 billion dollars per month, indefinitely.  Everyone holding dollars is being robbed, but you tell me, who does it impact more.  The person with millions of dollars or the person just making ends meet?  If I could not make ends make, despite working, and I knew of the truth, I'd eat you motherfucker.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:39 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

The purchase program is supporting the slack in the economy.  If it weren't in place unemployment would be higher. 

Is that what you want?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:46 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Even assuming the validity of what you claim here (which any knowledgeable or honest person would not), your repeated and specious argument boils down to "give the addict MORE heroin, or he will suffer!", ignoring both the fact that the patient can NOT get better UNTIL he suffers the pain of withdrawal, as well as the fact that without experiencing that necessarily painful transition, the patient will die.

Your specious rationalizations in support of a criminal, sociopathic power elite will, if there is any justice in the universe whatsoever, earn you a very special place in Hell.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:46 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Perhaps your labor is overpriced.  Allow for true price discovery, the failure of bad business models, the success of good business models, and the economy will fix itself.  I want accountability, why don't you?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:51 | Link to Comment NaiLib
NaiLib's picture

Unemplyment is rising all the time, its just that the manipulated statistics dont. The purchase program does not help at all. And it is not proven, your claim that it would be higher wihtout it. Now im beginning top think that you are the real Dr Krugman since you time after time avoid reality.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:52 | Link to Comment slavador
slavador's picture

A much more interesting use of this 85B monthly print would be simply to distribute $2000 to each married with children opposite sex couple monthly. Their spending would cause real stimulus. Removing the prop of easy treasury sales would force the gov't to act responsibly.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 19:15 | Link to Comment howenlink
howenlink's picture

Still practicing for that debate with Bob Murphy to raise money for the hungry.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 22:28 | Link to Comment HyperinflatmyNutts
HyperinflatmyNutts's picture

STOP FEEDING THIS TROLL!!  Do not reply to any of his post at all. Why give him power? By not replying we have the power.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 22:31 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Must ....... attack ....... Krugman ...... must ....... attack ........Krugman ........... must ........ eat ........ brains ........ oh ....... shit ........ no .........brain ......... here ..........

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 22:42 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Ask him about spray painting zeros on a broken down Yugo in the parking lot of the Treasury and calling it "debt repayment".

I never can get a clear answer out of him on his "theoretical fiat monetary" point...I might as well be talking to a two year old on a Big Wheel with zeros spray painted on the side, it seems ;-)

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:22 | Link to Comment McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Yes, how dare you, sir!

LMAO

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:04 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

just curious, are we all channeling our rage at the real paul krugman, or are we mad at the paul krugman avatar who posts these silly comments.....................

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:08 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Who says we can't do both?

 

Happiness is killing two Keynesian shitbirds with one stone.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:15 | Link to Comment McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

"I think maybe it's both. Maybe both is happening at the same time."

—Forrest Fuckin' Gump

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 07:03 | Link to Comment awakening
awakening's picture

That stone wouldn't be quartz with traces of Gold and Silver by any chance, would it? :)

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:13 | Link to Comment Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

He's a fake, the real one is even more stupid.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 18:51 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture

Is that possible ?

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 03:55 | Link to Comment Lore
Lore's picture

Wouldn't 'vapid' be more accurate?  His posts aren't even amusing -- just tiresome.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 18:19 | Link to Comment PrintemDano
PrintemDano's picture

yes

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:54 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

It's your fellow puppets in Washington who keep taxes low for the uber-wealthy, Paul.

As for Buffett wanting to pay more taxes - what's stopping him? 

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:02 | Link to Comment Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Doesn't Buffett owe about a billion in back taxes that hes arguing with the IRS about?  I thought I heard that somewhere...

And hes certainly free to open up his checkbook and send in any amount he feels is appropriate for him to pay over and above what he "owes".  He just wants to raise taxes because he can afford to pay it, and it will just put the hurt on any of his competition out there.  Its just a glass ceiling to keep the lower classes from moving up.  I vote to take everything he has!!

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:03 | Link to Comment BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Freakin' idiot!  Hookers!

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 22:24 | Link to Comment Rusty Trombone
Rusty Trombone's picture

Pay MOAR taxes? He just bought Goldman!

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:25 | Link to Comment Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Mr. Krugman.

In a world where there is no wealth consolidator(now), interest and  dividends and earnings growth are nominal gains which are progressively self diminishing. The more nominal gains you make, the more medium of exchange you pile up which has to be reinvested again for even more nominal gains. Not only is your new nominal gains competing with other savers nominal gains but your very own present nominal gains will be competing with your future nominal gains. This can only lead to ever higher asset prices and ever lower yields on everything until it reaches its mathematical limit and explodes. 

FOFOA explains..

"Most people are savers, not investors or traders. Yet today we are all forced to be investors chasing nominal gains because there is no such thing as a perfect inflation hedge. If there were such a thing, a large portion of the "investing public" would not be anywhere near stocks and bonds. Even the most "risk free" bonds, US Treasuries, have the greatest risk of all, currency risk. "

"Furthermore, a saver must look deeper than the CPI, or even its shadow-equivalent, for the real inflation that must be protected against. And that is the inflating VOLUME of savings with which one must compete. A perfect inflation hedge would not only keep up with the shadow-CPI but it would also rise in VALUE (as opposed to volume) relative to changes in aggregate monetary savings (nominal gains). "

Lets use a simplified version of Warrens own example.

All the farmland in the US is a cool 400 billion. Lets just count that as another Exxon mobile. Plus we will count his 1 trillion in "walk around money" as 2 more Exxons. That leaves us with 19 Exxon Mobiles with around a 390 billion in market cap each. Remember Warren Buffets claim to fame is to buy stocks with hefty dividends to make money and or store value.

 

Exxon's current dividend yield is  2.74%.
2.74% of 390 billion is $10,660,134,000. (Ten billion) We have 19 Exxons so we can multiply this number by 19 and that gets us $202,542,546 (Two hundred billion) in nominal gains annually.

2.74% is not Buffets thing though, he would rather have a 6% divvy. So lets go with 6%.

Exxons dividend is 6%

6% of 390 billion is $23,400,000,000 (Twenty three billion) Multiply this by 19 and we get $444,600,000,000 (Four hundered+ Billion) in nominal gains annually.

Now  what the hell do you do with the 444 billion you just made in 12 months ? Buy another Exxon ? So you have an even bigger problem next year ? What will that do to the price and the yield ? What about the other savers who want another Exxon that year too ? Prices to infinity, yield to zero.

Can you see the fatal flaw in Warren Buffets claim to fame that chasing nominal gains as a means to store wealth or investing is completely self defeating ? And his fatal flaw in declaring gold useless ?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:32 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I see your flaw in thinking that he gives a shit.

Oh, and I see him laughing at you for thinking that.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:40 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

The flaw in his thinking lies in assuming that Krugman himself actually also thinks, or is honest in his rationalizations for, and pandering to, the corrupt oligarchic power structure.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 19:32 | Link to Comment Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

"Go ask the poor if they would rather take welfare or earn a decent living."

 

The government spent a trillion dollars on wars and murdering children with drones.  You support that system with your tax dollars, Krugman.

 

I'm pretty sure we could do a better job taking care of ourselves without a parasitic murder-machine sucking our resources dry.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:41 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

''yet don't want to pay your fair share in taxes.''

 

Tell that to GE

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:42 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Democracy?

Here is your democracy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1E9MiUECXU

And yet the sheeple sleep.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:43 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

It has been a safe store of value for all of recorded history.  Guess what dipshit, if the world as we know it ends, life will go on, chance always favors the prepared and guess what, for all of recorded history, people have glady accepted gold in exchange for real assets or the fruits of their labor.  Perhaps you should have let those bad business models fail huh?  Perhaps there is merit to making sure that your monetary system insures real consequences for bad behavior?   When fraud is the status quo (as it is now), possession is the law.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:58 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

The historical examples you give are dated.  Rome et al used gold as a means of exchange because they didn't have the type of social system we do.

Money is a social contrivance and convenience that makes this social system work better — and should be adjusted, both in quantity and in characteristics, whenever there is compelling evidence that this would lead to better outcomes. It often makes sense to put constraints on our actions, e.g. by pegging to another currency or granting the central bank a high degree of independence, but these are things done for operational convenience or to improve policy credibility, not moral commitments — and they are always up for reconsideration when circumstances change.

But by no means should we limit ourselves by adhering to barbaric systems like chaining our wealth to how many shiny rocks we can dig out of the ground.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:59 | Link to Comment ATM
ATM's picture

you're a lcueless cocksucker. Currency is a social contrivance. Money is a store of wealth. They are not the same thing and your ignorance of the that not so subtle difference tells me you really are that bedwetting shit stain. 

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:19 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

A dollar is a dollar...

But oh, now the inlfation arguement from you, although inflation is low and has been low for years.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:22 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

So-called 'inflation', meaning currency debasement, has been real, signficant and ongoing for many decades --- it is in fact inherent and essential to the fraud and tool of financial repression that is fiat currency.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:22 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"A dollar is a dollar..." -  Not when it is being created out of thin air at a rate of 85 billion per month, indefinitely.  Now you give yourself away troll.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:26 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

The asset purchase program is having a minimum affect on the monetary base.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:30 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Yes, pay no attention to all those hastily-installed, "transitory" beams propping up the rotting structure of the current banking system.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:41 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Bullshit, what's the price in dollars for heating oil now, compared to a year ago, 4 years ago, 10 years ago?  So you are saying it's okay if people freeze then?  Not a very liberal idea there Krugman.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:43 | Link to Comment McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Ten bucks says he uses the word "transitory" in his reply.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:48 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

A good bet.  When you have nothing of real value to offer, baffle them with bullshit.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 18:54 | Link to Comment dtwn
dtwn's picture

And water on the stove, with the correct amount of heat input, doesn't boil.  Until it does.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:00 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

More avoidance by the good doctor.  The answer to your question is gold remains a safe store of value.   Now, as to my question, why do you fear accountability so much?  Why do you fail to recognize that allowing bad behavior to go unpunished is a bad thing?  When fraud is the status quo, possession becomes the law, and history is very clear that when this happens many things will become "medians of exchange."

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:01 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

+1

LOL, Dr K makes MDB look bad.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:50 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

I am Dr. Paul Krugman.

Looking bad is a joint effort.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 18:30 | Link to Comment PrintemDano
PrintemDano's picture

Will the real Dr. Paul Krugman please stand up.

 

Dr. Krugman:  I am standing up.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:04 | Link to Comment Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

So you'd rather 'chain your wealth' to digits in a computer that can be vaporized with one stroke of a bankers/politians pen, or server crash, or emp?  Gold holds up under corrosion, unlike any other 'rock' you can dig up, thus it's appeal for millennia as a store of fortune.  

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:05 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

 ...Money is a social contrivance and convenience that makes this social system work better — and should be adjusted, both in quantity and in characteristics, whenever there is compelling evidence that this would lead to better outcomes.

Adjusted by whom? Better outcomes for... whom?

It often makes sense to put constraints on our actions, e.g. by pegging to another currency or granting the central bank a high degree of independence,

Independence from whom? Their owners, the commercial banks? or independence from market forces like bankruptcy when they get it wrong?

but these are things done for operational convenience or to improve policy credibility, not moral commitments — and they are always up for reconsideration when circumstances change.

When circumsatances change? Like when they get it right, the banks keep their fortunes, made almost entirely through credit expansion - that is to say, legalised counterfieting... and when 'circumstances' (LOL) change, and their bets fail, they get bailed out by the rest of us, and then keep raking in the billions?

The historical examples you give are dated.  Rome et al used gold as a means of exchange because they didn't have the type of social system we do.

Oh, I don't know... I'd say we're heading for a very similar 'social system' to post-republican Rome's model of feudalism... thanks to banksters and their shills like you.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:23 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Whom? 

The people.

Now, the money morality types like you try to have it both ways; you want us to believe that monetary blasphemy will produce disastrous results in practical terms too. But events have proved you wrong.

And I do find myself thinking a lot about Keynes’s description of the gold standard as a “barbarous relic”; it applies perfectly to this discussion. The money morality people are basically adopting a pre-Enlightenment attitude toward monetary and fiscal policy — and why not? After all, you hate the Enlightenment on all fronts.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:39 | Link to Comment slavador
slavador's picture

Dr K.

When was the monetary enlightenment?

1971?1933?1911?

I suspect by the "people" you are speaking of yourself and the small number that benefit from controlling the system. If they are handy why not quote your favourite statistics to make it seem like the lot of the other 80% is always improving due to fractional reserve paper money. 

Your idea of pre and post enlightment thinking doesn't define either and it leaves me wanting a clarification.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 18:11 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

 

 Whom? 

The people.

Shill, the only time 'The people' can have a hand in 'monetary policy' is when money is exogenous, and the people can extract their money from the failing institutions and make them fail. Money is now endogenous, and thus, policy is ultimately in the hands of your masters. 'The people' have no say whatsoever.

you want us to believe that monetary blasphemy will produce disastrous results in practical terms too. But events have proved you wrong. 

LOL, the great depression was the result of Central Banks' 'policies', as is this current nightmare.

And I do find myself thinking a lot about Keynes’s description of the gold standard as a “barbarous relic”

Keynes wasn't referring to 'the gold standard'. He was referring to the gold exchange standard. Or don't you know the difference? 

I can almost believe you are the real Paul Krugman, here to polish your disinfo chops. If not, bravo - you've got his mix of arrogance, ignorance, and sophistry down to a 'T'.

 

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:16 | Link to Comment jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

the "adjustments" in the supply of money should be controlled by government (the people) and not some private collective group of zionists, whose "moral committments" are more scarce than gold...and if the economy collapses and i am left "clutching" gold or dollars...with one i will kindle my wood stove, with the other i will bribe a soldier or border guard.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:28 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

I stopped reading at "zionists".

As for the government controlling the money supply - the goverment gave control to the Federal Reserve because they are impartial; the government would use the money supply to secure votes.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:49 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I stopped reading you at "Keynesian stimulation of the economy".

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 18:00 | Link to Comment Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

***the goverment gave control to the Federal Reserve because they are impartial***

Come on! The FED is owned an controlled by the banking cartel and is run for their benefit not the country's.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 02:12 | Link to Comment All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Hi Paul, who are the "they" (name names, name corporate influence) that are impartial at the Federal Reserve?  Who hired them?  Why did they hire them?   Who will hire them and give them book deals when they leave?

Is Jamie Dimon "impartial?"  He sits on the Board of the Federal Reserve, no?  He doesn't use his influence to maixmize profits for JP Morgan, does he?  You know, that is his legal corporate mandate per corporate law - maximize profits for the company he runs, no?

The 2000-2005 propaganda doesn't work anymore.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:10 | Link to Comment ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

"Rome et al used gold as a means of exchange because they didn't have the type of social system we do."

I am have a picture of a very bloody Roman bank run going through my mind...

Brutus Maximus is going to exchange his worthless scrip at Goldmanius Sachsus LLC... ooops sorry... no such things as a paper gold solidus.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:16 | Link to Comment Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

I would'nt wipe my ass with gold, but FRN's would'nt think twice.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:18 | Link to Comment slavador
slavador's picture

Dr. Paul:

I think you miss both Santelli's point and the value of gold. When the overdue and inevitable rebalancing of wealth comes there will be transitions not unlike the present disruption in Cyprus. Physical, unregistered, tightly held Gold a possible way to not get wiped out as all savers in Cyprus are presently being in real time. Santelli points out today that the effortless ways to own gold like the GLD ETF offers no wealth protection as the custodian of this fund is the most likely institution to indulge in a bail-in in America! Since in some circles gold is still viewed as a strategic metal, PM ETFs are likely to be first in line to be raided for the national interest making them worse than bank accounts!    

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:36 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

You think the people of Cyprus want gold?  No, they want a functioning economy.

And I did understand the article - Santelli wants gold in his hand to clutch during the impending doom.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:42 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Well, at least you agree that we face impending "doom".  Although it is hardly appropriate to use the implicitly apocalyptic word "doom", as the kind of currency, financial and economic collapses that we now fact, the same kind of chaos and misery that you statists have inflicted on mankind throughout all of his benighted and endlessly-repeating history, is now so common and predictable as to hardly justify such a potent word as "doom".

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:42 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

No, it is you, pirate, who thinks we are facing impending doom.  I am merely a realist who understands that if we don't take proper measures we will be mired in depression for longer than is necessary.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:50 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Dr kugman, does debt matter?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:55 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Who's debt are you refering to?  The U.S. debt?  Look at Japan.  Does their debt matter?

No it doesn't.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:58 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

What Up LFP/RNR?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 18:02 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

If debt does not matter, could you call JPM Chase, HSBC, Citi and BAC and tell them to fucking stop calling me 30 fucking times a day..........I did my part and spent money I didnt have to help my country.............I just cant afford to pay it back. My job was shipped overseas.........Fuck em if they cant take a joke.........

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 00:51 | Link to Comment All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Hi Paul,

Are you claiming that the marginal debt doesn't have to ever be paid back?  If so, are you claiming that the labor and assets people have to give up to pay it back, with interest, don't matter as people?

Why yes, that's it - the people don't matter so their labor and toil to generate exponential debt money growth to pay back prior debts doesn't matter to you.

Well, it matters to us regular folks.

And don't lie about growing faster than the debt.  From 1980 through the collapse in 2008, 112 quarters in a row saw debt grow faster than GDP:

Look at the first chart - Fed Z1 and BEA GDP data

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=218297

Yes, Paul Krugman might try and argue that the 112-0 streak was an anomoly...  if he thinks you are stupid enough to fall for it.

------------------

You might have missed this question the last 7 times I asked it, so here we go for try number 8 (and yes, I will continue to increment the numbers until you answer the question):

If growth is defined in monetary terms and money is debt (interest bearing), please explain how exponential growth of debt is sustainable into eternity.

If money (debt) exponential growth is not sustainable into eternity, then WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE EXPONENTIAL MONEY (DEBT) GROWTH FAILS?

I made the question bold in case you are having vision problems and couldn't see the question.  Hopefully this helps.

TIA...

-----------------

I need your help to expose this criminal financial modern day Goebbels, ZHers,

Why am I the only one asking this sophistry spinning Debt Money Pimp this question that exposes the tangled web of lies he weaves in his attempt to deceive people he considers ignorant of the mechanism used to create money?  Every post of Paul's should have 10 or more of these questions copied and pasted until he's forced to go on vacation - because he can't rationally answer the question, he knows it and that's why he has already avoided it 7 times and running.  He's not dumb.  He knows it is a sophistry trap.

Copy and paste the question and keep incrementing the times asked every time it is posted.  Show Paul that you see who he is because you understand the contradiction between his lies and the reality of exponential math.

ZHers can take an over under as to how long it takes Paul to "go on vacation" before even he understands he's been exposed as fraud.  We need to mock frauds like Paul Krugman who works tirelessly to throw you and yours under the bus for a few bucks and fine parties with fellow sociopaths.

Don't fall for his irrationality and logical fallacy.  Call him out as a Debt Money Pimp who is doing all he can to destroy the future of you and your children and hand it all over to his criminal bankster overlords.

Fabian Socialsts chose a wolf in sheep's clothing as their mascot.  That and a couple megalomaniacs pounding the entire Earth into whatever shape they determine.

Do you have fond fealings for Beatrice Webb, Paul?  Why don't you tell us about them?

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 01:07 | Link to Comment All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

I folks, bookmark this page and Paul's comment.  He's appealing to history hoping people falsely believe that the future will mimic the past.

He knows it is a fallacy, but he has no real argument, so he hopes you fall for it.

I do not think that Japan's debt, as well as its related servitude, doesn't matter to Paul personally, though.  That's probably what he meant, but just didn't tell the people he holds in contempt.

-----------------------------

You might have missed this question the last 8 times I asked it, so here we go for try number 9 (and yes, I will continue to increment the numbers until you answer the question):

If growth is defined in monetary terms and money is debt (interest bearing), please explain how exponential growth of debt is sustainable into eternity.

If money (debt) exponential growth is not sustainable into eternity, then WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE EXPONENTIAL MONEY (DEBT) GROWTH FAILS?

TIA...

---------------------------

ZHers, please copy and paste this question to Paul and increment the number of times it was posted.  This question exposes Paul as the fraud he is.  He either has to claim that exponential debt growth can last forever or he has to explain what happens when the exponential growth breaks down.

His whold con is that he hopes his audience doesn't udnerstand exponential math.

He's a fraud.  He's not stupid - if he were stupid, he's try and answer the question.  Rather, he's a coniving person who holds the average citizen in great contempt.  He is afraid of getting whooped by the people he holds in disdain, so he feigns caring for them, ala Fabian Socialist, solfe in sheep's clothing style.

Don't curse him - that doesn't make his decide to run away and hide.  That's ad hominem fallacy.  Rather, prove why he's everything you say by copying and pasting the able question and forcing him to go back into hiding.

Poverty - Debt is not a Choice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juQc0rLdB-E

How to be a Crook

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oHbwdNcHbc

Paul is a propagandist for the crooks.

Paul knows full well what happens to poor people when the banksters loot society via bailouts (insiders get the cash, society gets the unpayable debt associated with that cash) and then leverage up and gamble on foodstuffs.

Poor people that can barely afford to eat then starve to death - many children.  That's who Paul represents.  He wants to talk about Japan that is in the process of imploding in order to distract from other countries where debt kills millions of people a year.

Paul doesn't talk about that for the same reason Goebbels didn't talk about the dastardly deeds of his masters.

He isn't about bit the hand that feeds him, no matter what demon is attached to that hand.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 14:59 | Link to Comment ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

If money (debt) exponential growth is not sustainable into eternity, then WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE EXPONENTIAL MONEY (DEBT) GROWTH FAILS?

That's why debt (money) growth must NEVER stop. Once the music stops you get an exponentially accelerating black hole of monetary and thus economic collapse.

You need not ask the question... he's not an idiot. Krugman KNOWS the outcome.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 02:13 | Link to Comment All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Z, I know he knows, but he can't answer because an answer exposes the contradiction inherent in his deception.

I'm making a couple points:

1. He knows he's a deceptive fraud because he knows what traps to avoid.

2. Remove all doubt from the naive that thinks Paul is confused.

BTW, kudos to you for understanding the importance of Paul running away from this discourse and commenting on it.  I'm amazed so many simply want to curse out this wolf rather than expose the contradictions inherent in his deception.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 01:12 | Link to Comment pbppbp
pbppbp's picture

Krugman,

Japan debt doesn't matter? They're on the fucking precipice you schmuck.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 16:08 | Link to Comment Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Great! The Nobel prize winner Dr. Krugman says it. No more bailouts, because debt does not matter!

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 23:43 | Link to Comment All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Hi Paul,

Don't run away from such a simple question.

You understand exponential math, right?  You have some kind of award that indicates you are one of the special wolf class, Paul.  Just answer the simple question... or admit oyou can't answer it.

Such a big, big BIG man running away and hiding doesn't reflect well on you, Paul.

Oh, you regret not listening to your handlers and only coming out in controlled circumstances so real questions that expose you as a fraud can't ever get asked of you, right?

-------------------------------------

You might have missed this question the last 8 times I asked it, so here we go for try number 9 (and yes, I will continue to increment the numbers until you answer the question):

If growth is defined in monetary terms and money is debt (interest bearing), please explain how exponential growth of debt is sustainable into eternity.

If money (debt) exponential growth is not sustainable into eternity, then WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE EXPONENTIAL MONEY (DEBT) GROWTH FAILS?

I made the question bold in case you are having vision problems and couldn't see the question.  Hopefully this helps.

TIA...

Poverty - Debt is not a Choice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juQc0rLdB-E

How to be a Crook

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oHbwdNcHbc

You work promoting the crooks' debt money "widgets," no?  Debt is the product of the banks - it is their widget.

Do they treat you well, Paul?  Do they pat you on the head for your "good work" for the "bringing of light?"

Or do you do it for a discount because you really like destroying humanity?  You know, people like Darwin's Irish people in his book, "Descent of Man."

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:59 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Krugman:  "You think the people of Cyprus want gold?  No, they want a functioning economy..."

The next time someone gets him into a discussion, you need to ask him why the BRIC+ CB's are buying up that "barbaric relic" at such a pace.  E.g. China, Russia.  And why does Germany want its gold back?  Why can't they get it now, but have to wait 7 years?  Why 7 years?  Was it sold and it has to be bought back on the open market?  Etc, etc.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 18:14 | Link to Comment ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

You make it sound as if that is the choices they have been given.  It isn't. 

So given a choice of gold or fiat currency, what do you think the people of Cyprus would prefer today? 

 

Today, they have neither gold or a functioning economy.

 

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 19:01 | Link to Comment DogOfSinope
DogOfSinope's picture

Nope. They had functioning economy since around 5000 B.C. until last week.
What they want now is access to their hard earned savings. And, to know who is accountable for the fact that they can't have it.
What do you recon, what'd they prefer to have now - their bank accounts or gold?
Never mind gold - I recon they'd rather have a truckload of cement, barrel of ouzo, barn filled with sausages... Anything but their bank accounts.
And, that brings us to the fact the there was no problem in economy - there was problem with banks and government. So it was in Iceland, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy.. And, yes, U.S. and UK, too. Banks and governments literally ruined economies. No one accountable.
Which means that solutions you propose are, well, homeopathic. No liberal would subscribe to that crap, would one? Only someone stupid or someone who is just bullshitting would. And, I don't think that you are stupid.
Which brings us to eminent philosopher, professor Harry G. Frankfurt and his definition of bullshitter and his focus on intentions--the practice of bullshit, rather than its end result. Bullshitting, as he notes, is not exactly lying, and bullshit remains bullshit whether it's true or false. The difference lies in the bullshitter's complete disregard for whether what he's saying corresponds to facts in the physical world: he "does not reject the authority of the truth, as the liar does, and oppose himself to it. He pays no attention to it at all. By virtue of this, bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are."

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 19:23 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Krugerandman,

And I did understand the article - Santelli wants gold in his hand to clutch during the impending doom.

At no time did he say that,you a seer also?, or MDB, and just changed your handle for fun?.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 00:13 | Link to Comment Muc Metals
Muc Metals's picture

You think the people of Cyprus want gold?  No, they want a functioning economy.

Doing a poll among Cyprus account holders at the Bank of Cyprus: 

What would you prefer:
100,000 EUR sitting on your closed down bank account
or 79.68 oz of gold in your hand?

I think we can anticipate the poll result.
Dear Dr. K., your either...or approach is wrong.

People are preferring financial security over insecurity.
In times of financial chaos "barbaric" insurance is a great calmative.

And the sh*t is just starting to hit the fan.

What do you think will happen if account holders in Portugal, Slovenia, Spain and France are finding out that they might be the next "special case"? What do you think will happen if non European account holders are pulling their money out of EU bank accounts?

Mrs. Merkel has been repeating her reassurance that "German bank accounts are safe" for the 3rd(!) time now. I personally have "adjusted" my account balances after the 1st reassurance ;)

Aren't all those sorcerer's apprentices like you (sorry for the harsh language ;) having bad dreams that it might be too late stopping the flood?

Bailing out (infallible ;) LTCM was one thing but who do you think will be bailing out this time when the music stops? 

 

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:20 | Link to Comment slightlyskeptical
slightlyskeptical's picture

But the money is not being used to make the social system better. It is being used to rig outcomes in the favor of bankers. If you want to improve policy crediblity come up with some credible policies and make the bankers pay fully for their malinvestments. Everything that is being done is only serving to accumulate the money in fewer and fewer hands. The social system the 95% view as fair is far from the social system you would like to see developed. You don't seem to see that rigging the sytem for the rich, so that the money can trickle down to the poor, is nothing but a fancy way of saying "everything will be better if you let us piss on you,".

 

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 19:33 | Link to Comment Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Actually, Rome had the same social system of welfare, if that's what you're referring to.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:02 | Link to Comment robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

So after the shit-storm can you give me an idea of how much gold I should give the farmer for a 3kg free range chicken?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:07 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

No.

But I can't tell you how many USTs he'd want in exchange for a 3kg free-range chicken, either. Enough to wipe his ass for a year, would be my guess.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:25 | Link to Comment slavador
slavador's picture

3 chickens/ounce of silver

150 chickens/ounce of gold

2 gallons of gas/ chicken

1 turkey for 3 chickens

Promise the farmer that you won't turn him in for using non-Monsanto feed if he gives you a free chicken!

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:34 | Link to Comment robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

LMAO. Thanks for the two good answers.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 18:27 | Link to Comment tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

Wait a minute, I'll give you 4 chickens for an ounce of silver.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 18:28 | Link to Comment tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

or how about 6 dozen chicken futures instead?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 18:58 | Link to Comment mt paul
mt paul's picture

chicken futures

 

eggs ?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 21:25 | Link to Comment WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

+ 1 - You may need to diversify into roosters for that to work out.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 21:27 | Link to Comment tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

I guess I forgot to spell it out.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:44 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

Democracy?  WTF!

First, what we once had was a Constitutional Republic.  What we have now is a Facist Kleptocracy.

As to your inane question, gold was money way before the world as we know it, and will stil be monsy after the world as we know it is gone.....a date that seems to be closing on us rapidly.  Just ask the good people of Cyprus.  Maybe a poll of them asking how many wish they had put their Euros into gold instead of the pockets of banksters would help enlighten you.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:00 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

The bottom line is that we aren’t really having a rational argument here. Nor can we: rationality has a well-known liberal bias.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:01 | Link to Comment NaiLib
NaiLib's picture

I would still like to know if you are THE Paul Krugman that sang glory over Sweden in Bloomberg a couple of weeks ago. Could you just confirm yes or no?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:05 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture
NOOOOOO!!!!!

Now stop being so damn dense.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:31 | Link to Comment silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

no hes just the resident complacentcy bot who is helping to sheppard the sheep to the slaughterhouse. Moral hazard does not calculate when you reach his level of douchieness. 

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:03 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Well, one thing is for sure: we cannot continue to have ANY sort of conversation here until you buy that mouthwash!

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:06 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Allowing bad business models not to fail and bad behavior to go unpunished is also irrational, yet this is exactly what you propose.  So much for that liberal bias.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:23 | Link to Comment Simplifiedfrisbee
Simplifiedfrisbee's picture

Rationalizing stems from a belief system. If one believes in a deceptive form of ideas, then truthfully speaking you get what you deserve.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 19:21 | Link to Comment dtwn
dtwn's picture

How about logic?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 19:28 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

The bottom line is that we aren’t really having a rational argument here. Nor can we: rationality has a well-known liberal bias.

Now I know your an agent provateur,as anyone with a liberal bias has no clue to Logic,much less rationality.They are the most irrational/illogical people in the world.

Facts just confuse them so they disallow them into any LOGICAL thinking.

They all need to go back and have a remedial thinking class.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 23:00 | Link to Comment Simplifiedfrisbee
Simplifiedfrisbee's picture

Hello, my name is Dr. Krugman and I am a keynesian.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:22 | Link to Comment Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

Chris Hedges often sites Sheldon Wolin for coming up with the term, Inverted Totalitarianism

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:45 | Link to Comment whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

LOL Mr Nobel/Troll.  What good is a store of value in a world that is in despair?  I don't know, I guess the age of enlightenment has eliminated thousands of years of recorded history where a store of value was utilized by society.  What do you think, that now we have paper money if all hell breaks loose no store of value will be required?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:47 | Link to Comment NaiLib
NaiLib's picture

Dr Krugman?

Are you the Real Dr Krugman that sang glory over Sweden a couple of weeks ago in Bloomberg?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:36 | Link to Comment Swarmee
Swarmee's picture

No, this poster is merely a Socratic Interlocutor. A logical foil with which to parry. Thus may we observe how ourselves and others respond to such arguments and all benefit from the exercise. Cheers.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 04:01 | Link to Comment Lore
Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:47 | Link to Comment macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

You all enjoy the liberties that we have established

Interesting how you make the leap from the work done by the Founding Fathers to include yourself as one of them. You are a parasite sucking off the work great men did and now claiming it as your own while you step in the face of those who oppose you.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:47 | Link to Comment Lets_Eat_Ben
Lets_Eat_Ben's picture

DD scenario people will barter inevitably. what faciliatates trade? Thst's right money. Gold is the most fungible asset on the planet.

Simple question...think doc, you hack.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:52 | Link to Comment MrNude
MrNude's picture

''yet don't want to pay your fair share in taxes''

Shouldn't you be saying that to Wells Fargo,Citicorp,Bank of America,GE etc. etc. ?

 


Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:01 | Link to Comment ATM
ATM's picture

and who gets to decide what my fairshare is. some fuckwad like Paul Krugman?

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 08:20 | Link to Comment margaris
margaris's picture

sorry, but using "fair" and "taxes" in the same sentence, is like using the words "voluntary" and "rape" together.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:52 | Link to Comment Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

"yet don't want to pay your fair share in taxes"

Hey Paul, who isn't paying their "fair" share?  A couple making over $250,000 per year is in the highest tax bracket.  Guess what Paul, when you factor in federal and state income taxes along with social security and medicare, and then add in sales taxes, property taxes and the other myriad of fees and licenses one has to buy, you are paying WELL OVER 60% of your income, and probably more like 70% of your income to your beloved government.  That means every 10 days that you go to work, its like working 6 or 7 days for the government.  Thats not FAIR?  You want MORE?  I call working 7 days of 10 for the government SLAVERY!! 

I'd like you to tell me how much government spending is enough, Paul.  Is it 5 trillion or 10?  20?  30?  How much is enough???

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:14 | Link to Comment Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Where are ya Paul?  Don't want to tell us how much spending is enough?  Why is that?  So when things fail you can say,"we just didn't spend enough!!  We should have spent more!!"  Lets hear the magic number that will cure the economy!!  You are a doctor after all right?  Tell us plebes what it will take to put our economy forever on the right track!!

  You and every liberal out there can never say how much is enough, can you?  Because there is NO AMOUNT that is enough.  You have infinite spending desire.  Every idea deserves to be funded.  Its never ending. 

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 16:57 | Link to Comment Blano
Blano's picture

Let's hear your definition of "fair share."

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:07 | Link to Comment LostAtSea
LostAtSea's picture

Dr. Krugman said, "...enjoy the liberties *we* have established" ?? 

You do not dictate my liberty.

Liberty is one of the 3 basic rights of every human.   The other two being right to Life, and right to Property. 

 

I think that one line shows the underlying nature of how he thinks...as above others and deep-seated need to control *them*.

 

 

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 18:07 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

LostAtSea,

+100

Liberty is one of the 3 basic rights of every human.   The other two being right to Life, and right to Property. 

Glad someone knows the original wording.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 04:07 | Link to Comment Lore
Lore's picture

Very perceptive. That appears to be the distinction between 'us' and 'them' in so many contexts. 'They' dedicate their lives to imposing their view of the world upon others; 'we' cut through their BS, and every few generations, we have to remind them forcefully to mind their own business.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:19 | Link to Comment Roandavid
Roandavid's picture

The world as we know it doesn't have to end for the government to arbitrarily devalue the currency to some level which makes the debt it has accumulated more readily payable.

The world as we know it doesn't have to end for the government to decide to force retirement accounts to invest in treasuries in order to finance itself because it can no longer find sufficient funding elsewhere.

Above is just an outstanding example of the mediocre thinking that characterizes your career.

You are to Economics what Obama is to peace.

A fraud.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:34 | Link to Comment Swarmee
Swarmee's picture

Simple, at some point the world 'un-ends'. Order reforms, trade - both local and broader - will resume. At that point there will be value to gold. Just like for millennia even when barter of goods was a primary means of exchange gold had significant value in all societies. Or are YOU saying that once the bankers collapse the world economy it's total Armageddon with the end of all humans as the final outcome? Doubtful.

Finally, what will governments, those which remain in some form, transact in? Alcohol and cigarettes? Corn and rice? Perhaps, but those eventually rot if stored too long, and they will need to pay their soldiers and their contemporaries so again the lessons of history tell us a preferred medium of exchange is gold between the rulers.

Perhaps you would prefer to explain why central banks worldwide are wasting their valuable debt coupons on this archaic metal at an accelerating pace? Surely if it has no value then stockholding thousands of tons of the stuff is a fools errand. Why aren't they also hoarding silly putty and broken chunks of concrete?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:48 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Central Banks were net sellers of gold for 40 years, and since '08 have added, on average, 3% per annum. 

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:56 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Well, why are your beloved central banksters adding ANY amount of gold to their reserves at all?

More to the point, why are your beloved central banksters still holding ANY amount of the "barbarous relic" in the first place, if they don't have full faith in their fiat paper franchise?

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 18:57 | Link to Comment Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

So they can clutch it tight as they clench their sphincters watching the whole paper ponzi blow up.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 17:59 | Link to Comment Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Oops, net buyer here.  I must be on the wrong thread.

Wed, 03/27/2013 - 18:42 | Link to Comment PrintemDano
PrintemDano's picture

The fraud that is Fiat money is now coming home to roost, hence the need to have a real asset, not worthless paper.    Why didn't printing money work out so well in Zimbabwe and the Weimar republic good Dr....

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