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Buchheit On Cyprus: "The Situation Is Spiralling Down", And Why A Second Bailout May Be Needed

Tyler Durden's picture




 

When the world's leading expert on Sovereign debt restructurings believes that the endgame for Cyprus might be another round of restructuring, adding that "I'm not sure this is over," it is important to listen. With the calmness in Cyprus today more reflective of paralysis than confidence,  Lee Buchheit senses that the parameters of how much money will be needed to recapitalize the banks have changed. He tells Bloomberg TV's Lee Pacchia in this brief clip, "the situation is spiraling down... they'll need more money because the economy is worse, tax collections less, deposits will flow out when they can flow out." As for which European nation will be next in need of assistance with its sovereign debt burdens? Buchheit agrees with us that while many are looking to Slovenia, he sees real economic and political problems in both Italy and Spain remaining especially since the EU "have certainly changed the rules of the game."

 

 

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Thu, 03/28/2013 - 16:49 | 3386727 RacerX
RacerX's picture

This is like the dominoes for "Communism", except this is for another reason. "Stateism" maybe? "Bankism"? "Corporatism"?

Duh: "DEBTism"

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:24 | 3386828 Arrowflinger
Arrowflinger's picture

I say corporatism. We need a new symbol - for Cyprus SemiCONducers. The whole banking system is a Con inducing savers to run for the gold.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:44 | 3386912 WayBehind
WayBehind's picture

The Situation Is Spiralling Down?

No kidding genius! 

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:48 | 3387101 redpill
redpill's picture

It's always amazing to watch these dumbfuck central planners pretend that output will stay the same after they castrate an economy.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 23:03 | 3387624 OldE_Ant
OldE_Ant's picture

lol.  You made me think of a new term:

cyprustrated - when your savings sack is suddenly and violently cut off.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 04:15 | 3387929 Manthong
Manthong's picture

for chrissake.. where do these bozos come from?

 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 10:02 | 3388332 tango
tango's picture

Worse, Congress prats constantly that our economy is based on consumer spending so their "solution" is skyrocketing health care costs, new investment taxes, higher gas and food prices and less disposable income.  I'm not quite sure how this helps an economy powered by spending unless you're biggest invesment is debt.   Oh wait...

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 09:26 | 3388249 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Curious how French Bonds rose in price (falling yields) now that Cyprus is whimpering in the corner with a bloody nose...

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:06 | 3386988 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

corporatism is another name for fascism

at least, if you take mussolini's word for it.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:29 | 3387049 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

You know you are in trouble when you have to bail out what you just bailed in.

Maybe they should just stop bailing altogether?

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 19:03 | 3387132 LoneCapitalist
LoneCapitalist's picture

I think the depositors should bail.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 19:29 | 3387189 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Those who have been in-bailed will now be taxed to bailout their banks. Get in the circle, jerks!

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 20:37 | 3386885 Banksters
Banksters's picture

It looks like Italy is heading toward new elections.  Beppe needs to run one ad:

 

EU  controls and raids savings account.  Cyprus 1st, Italy next? 

Over and over and over.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 22:28 | 3387618 OldE_Ant
OldE_Ant's picture

I was thinking something catchier:

The EU thinks its their money.  I think its yours. 

Keeping their dirty hands out of YOUR POCKETS.

Beppe

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 03:08 | 3387887 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

It's neither. Deposits are investment in a bank.

If you want to save get yourself a safe deposit box otherwise you are an investor in a bank, thats why the bank pays interest for the use of your money, and when it goes tits up you lose your investment just like any other supplier of goods and services.

What's happening in Cyprus is absolutely right, when a bank goes tits the investors lose their investment. The travesty is that people still think of their investment as savings, and that banks can still get away with calling it that, but once their true position finally becomes clear 'savers' will move to something less risky, like gold. Maybe one day they may even insist it be used again as money...

For obvious reasons.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 10:08 | 3388345 tango
tango's picture

I have bought a large safe and built a room around it.  The man at our local bank said he was not sure that in case of an "emergency" (defined in Patriot Act somehow) that anyone would be allowed access to their personal lockbox since ownership "temporarily" is passed to "someone".  As vague as that was, it was clear enough for me - invest at your own risk.  The old meaning of banking - where folks place their money safely with interest, get a loan and secure credit - has vanished.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 16:52 | 3386739 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Collapse takes time

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:04 | 3386766 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Exhibit A:  Building 7

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:26 | 3386833 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

...and so it goes

~~~

It starts with 'Diesel Boom'... & disintegrates to [Buchheit] 'bullshit'...

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:45 | 3386913 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

And don't forget the other two -- all three collapsing at free-fall speed and leaving behind little more than dust particles -- utterly impossible to explain in terms of the official story:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OQgVCj7q49o

Never mind, of course, as America can't handle the truth and will not be bothered by it until it's way too late.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 21:31 | 3387498 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

To the four (so far) downers -- who are surely too much in denial to watch the video -- you are but further proof that Americans can't handle the truth.

Good luck when the truth finally has its way with what the state -- i.e., government and those who control it -- has done to our country. You're gonna need a whole lot of it if you expect to land on your feet after the shit has finally hit the fan.

As always, the state can kiss my ass.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:51 | 3386939 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Silverstein, is that you?  'Cause we are good and drunk and ready to go.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:08 | 3386780 spastic_colon
spastic_colon's picture

indeed....the collapse of the euro experiment will take 500+ years - no sarc

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:18 | 3386812 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Not a credit event either.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:22 | 3386825 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Demographic collapse is happening NOW. That underlies the crises over there. The pensions and free stuff cannot be delivered. Only France is close to replacement, but that's replacement by north African immigrants kids, for whom the word Francis is an insult. We do owe them for the spectacular carbeques though. Socialist. Heh. Wattaagonnado.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:36 | 3386880 spastic_colon
spastic_colon's picture

yes, and destitution of a society can persist for extraordinary periods of time while TPTB remain unscathed.  The most successful operations of change have been either mass well supported uprisings from within, or a gutting of the current value systems (ala Constantine et. Al.) none of which happened overnight.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 10:14 | 3388371 tango
tango's picture

People don't understand how long collapse takes.  I mean, the USSR was a basket case for 70 years where folks quietly starved to death and waded through grungy, desperate lives by staying drunk.  Yet it survived long past any logical timeframe.  The incredible thing is that they never knew the true price of any good or service since it was all centrally planned.  And of course they were unable to compete in the world - zero exports unless one counts cavier and weapons. 

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:25 | 3386832 Arrowflinger
Arrowflinger's picture

Only if the toilet clogs

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:21 | 3386822 Arrowflinger
Arrowflinger's picture

"Spiraling down" is a nice way to say 'shit flush.'

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 16:53 | 3386742 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Apathy: It seems to be contagious

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 16:55 | 3386750 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I wouldn't worry about it.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:07 | 3386772 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Why worry about your mother, why worry about your brother, when the century city just had to be comminng.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:10 | 3386784 spastic_colon
spastic_colon's picture

some people don't recall early tom petty.....early meaning old, which is why i recall

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 20:23 | 3387317 Dooud
Dooud's picture

Even the losers get lucky sometime, Man.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:31 | 3386854 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

me neither...can't do anything bout it

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:34 | 3386864 Jake88
Jake88's picture

What? Me worry...

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:05 | 3386768 OpenEyes
OpenEyes's picture

I don't care

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 20:55 | 3387408 max2205
max2205's picture

This is gonna make the collapse in the Ussr look like a popcorn fart

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:08 | 3386776 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

"You got your apathy in my ignorance! Mmmmmmm, it's delicious!" - Joe 6-Pack

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:24 | 3386831 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Ah, to be low information. Maybe in a next life.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:26 | 3386840 Arrowflinger
Arrowflinger's picture

No it is contiguous. Every person in line is infected and thinks he's fine.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:43 | 3386909 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Q:  What is the difference between ignorance and apathy?

A:  I don't know and I don't care.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 16:53 | 3386744 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

What else could it do except "spiral down?"

Quick, expand the Ponzi.

I want to see them do to the Pope and the Sicilians what they just pulled in Cyprus.

Now that will be a dog and pony show.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:10 | 3386789 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

"dog and pony show." ... is that on Food Network?

A-OOO-Gah

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:37 | 3386877 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

Way to tie in stories. you get a +1.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 20:17 | 3387297 espirit
espirit's picture

@kaiserhoff

MeThinks you might have that twisted around, as the authority is chasing ill-gotten/greedy gains. 

Times are changing, the boss is back in town.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:00 | 3386756 The Ram
The Ram's picture

"The EU certainly has changed the rules of the game"  Understatement of the year.  Unfortunately, most of the 6 billion people across the globe have not been told of the rules change, especially the 'saving class'.  Let's see if the Spanish and Italians catch on quickly and start yanking their shit out of their accounts. 

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:23 | 3386827 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Anybody know if any of these Cypriot banks passed an EU administered "stress test" recently?

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:45 | 3386915 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

They all passed in 2011.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 22:58 | 3387678 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Hilarious.  Wonder how the fuck that happened, eh?

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 00:29 | 3387797 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Apparently stealing from depositors was not part of the stress test.  Time to revise the test to include EU Frack ups

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:07 | 3386986 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Yes, the whole interview was like that, correct but understated ... spoken like a white-shoe firm partner

And anyone reading ZeroHedge the last 10 days knew almost everything he said already

Yes, that is the elephant in the room, as you said in your comment « ... if the Spanish and Italians catch on quickly and start yanking their sh*t out of their accounts ... »

Buchheit didn't really confront that head on ... this big question as to when there will be a run on the € 2 trillion plus in uninsured deposits in Spain and italy and the other Med countries

Buchheit said the EU would survive (likely), but wasn't asked the bigger more volatile question, when countries would start to leave the euro (rather than the EU)

Kept on waiting for him to just explode and say, "This shite is going to all BLOW UP soon! It will be OUT OF CONTROL!" Ha!

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 22:22 | 3387603 OldE_Ant
OldE_Ant's picture

The funniest thing about this is that $1 deposit withdrawl impairs what $10-20 of loans.  So for every billion pulled out it's $10-20B is impaired?   I've already done my share and am working on some more.  If $1T gets pulled this impairs 10-20T - then it's done.   This won't be allowed to happen.  No way, no how.

What is fascinating though is the idea that if they put 'capital controls' in place to stem the flows of money they basically are impairing the $1T of what was free cash that might move and buy things (rather than being stuffed in mattresses) vs. just sitting in banks and backing up depreciating non-performing assets.

To me it's pretty simple.  If the banks arn't going to give me 'any' return on my money then there is no real reason to let them keep my money.   The special hot sauce that should light a fire under anyones ass is when bankers suggest they can 'dip' into those savings to save the same banks.   That alone is such a hot potato 'we the people' really NEED to let it land in the hands of the bankers.

Personally I think this has all been orchistrated to create the very crisis those in power are claiming to avoid.  WHY?  To have the power to change a human into 'this' (a battery).   Pure out and out power seeking more power.   Same as it ever was.   The only thing that has changed is there is no where for people to run (no new worlds anymore) and technology to watch and control EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE.

Ever get the feeling we are being herded like sheep into the shearing corral and there is not a bloody thing we can do about it?!

 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 04:58 | 3387952 Rip van Wrinkle
Rip van Wrinkle's picture

Love the 'uninsured deposits' bit!! You are taking the piss,aren't you??

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:01 | 3386760 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

Max Keiser says major crisis in April, I tend to agree.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:42 | 3386866 CaptainSpaulding
CaptainSpaulding's picture

Damn... I hope Dave Matthews gives refunds. 

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:46 | 3386921 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Thank goodness I'll be in Cyprus shopping for steeply discounted beach front.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 20:35 | 3387350 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

me too, if for different reasons.

new moon on 10th April, few days before, and a week after, strong signals of unexpected  *change of plans*  - lots of tension building in the "war sign" of Aries, new moon, and then Pluto going retrograde - 8th to about 15th April good for *shocks* 'n' surprises. . .

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 21:21 | 3387480 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Oh that's just great. My moon and Venus in Aries thanks you for that! I certainly need more turbulence in my life! ;-)

Miffed;-)

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 21:57 | 3387556 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I don't know the degrees of your Aries planets - this matters, as we're currently dealing with a spread of about 5-15dg, based on 1-30 degrees per sign - but if they're at about 10-15dg, you'll be feeling it going forward. . .

two signs associated with the "feminine" in the masculine archetype sign - no wonder your professed preference for the company of men, heh!

((for all you lurkers, this is happening in everyone's chart, somewhere - including the charts of nationstates. . . Aries is a strong square to amrka's Cancer ("Mom, apple pie, Home-land (in)securities" all cancer memes) planets - 4 planets in Cancer out of a possible 10, so a heavy archetype is being tested))

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 22:41 | 3387637 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Okay. You sucked me in! Moon 8 deg Aries and Venus in 28deg Aries.

What the Hell. I'll just give you the rest of my chart. Of course you will now use it to twist me on a hot stake like my mother did by knowing what buttons to push.

Rising 8 deg Taurus
Sun 26 deg Pisces
Moon 8 deg Aries
Mercury 29deg Aquarius
Venus 28 deg Aries
Mars 7 deg cancer
Jupiter 00 deg Aquarius
Saturn 27 deg Capricorn
Uranus 22 deg Leo
Neptune 11 deg Scorpio
Pluto 6 deg Virgo
N. node 6 deg Virgo

Here's my email if you wish to comment without the angry consternation of onlookers: zhmiffed@gmail.com

Miffed;-)

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 01:02 | 3390811 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

wow, that's an eye-full - and your plate's full about now!

while in truth I care ZERO about folks whining when I occasionally trail off into astrology posts, I'll save you being "outed" here, lol - occasional sidetracks are one thing, but I can give you some perhaps pointers on dealing with the rising anger/frustration you must be feeling this past year or two, and certainly going forward!

in a few days, via email then.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:08 | 3386763 LongOfTooth
LongOfTooth's picture

Just got a call from a friend who tells me that the rumor he's hearing is there's going to be a world wide bank holiday starting tomorrow.

Hopefully nothing more than a rumor but I should point out that he's never hit me with something like this in all the years I've known him.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to go make a withdrawl.

 

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:12 | 3386792 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Mmmmmm....The Withdrawal Method.

<homer simpson voice>

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 19:12 | 3387153 noless
noless's picture

Anyone got any recent coin shop stories regarding premiums on gold? i almost couldn't believe the quote i got yesterday, but then again, sorta..

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 19:19 | 3387170 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

I was quoted $95 over spot at the coin store yesterday.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:03 | 3386767 lotusblue
lotusblue's picture

Cypriot Orthodox Church is Sueing to end the EU/Cypriot  agreement!. The Church owns a big chunk of The Bank Of Cyprus and it is against Cypriot law to take (wipeout stock value) assets of the Church !

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:35 | 3386871 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

It's too late in the day to be kicking the money changers out of the temple.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:40 | 3386895 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

the church and banksters unholy alliance is as new as the hills.  not to mention that rothschilds also bear the title “guardians of the vatican treasury”…  i wonder how that's going to work out when vatican finds out that the hofjuden also corzined the vatican treasure

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:47 | 3386927 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Go, God, Go!!

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:38 | 3387074 Boozer
Boozer's picture

Church gets a well deserved kick in the nuts.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 19:11 | 3387146 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Pens with chains at St.Peters Gift Shop coming soon.

Domenic Go Friscum just got frisked.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:05 | 3386769 jubber
jubber's picture

Excellent interview

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:07 | 3386774 vincent
vincent's picture

I actually understood some of that.

Amazing how articulate one can be when one actualy speaks truths.

Sadly I'm not expecting this truth contagion to spread.

That'd be silly.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:08 | 3386778 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

Notice to everyone storing their gold at home.

Please take part in our survey and send the address where the gold is located and the quantity to henryhub@aol.com. This information will be used for scientific purposes only and will be kept in strictest confidence. Thanks in advance for you cooperation.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:11 | 3386788 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

Mine is upstream, Henry, upstream.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:12 | 3386793 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

I don't own any gold. Or silver. Or food or ammo.

Baaaa Baaaaa

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:08 | 3386779 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

We seem to have some dogmeat in our currency. Let's mix it with, let's say, depositorsmeat.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:22 | 3386820 notquantumdum
notquantumdum's picture

the real Soylent Green

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:10 | 3386785 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

And guess what's in the 2013 Canadian federal budget??? A Cyprus-type of ``bail-in`` if any Canadian bank gets in trouble!!

Check Page 144 and 145.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:13 | 3386795 Stonedog
Stonedog's picture

Funny how he admits that the equity holders and subordinated debtholders were wiped out but DID NOT MENTION the senior debtholders at all...

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:15 | 3386802 tornado_watch
tornado_watch's picture

MSM must be losing its mojo--not seeing headlines of record S&P around... apparently, however, Kim Kardashian wears tight pants... I thought there were supposed to be fireworks, skywriting, the Empire State Building lit green...

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 19:21 | 3387173 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

Depends on how tight the pants are....

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:15 | 3386805 Freaking Heck
Freaking Heck's picture

Regardless of the hits that keep coming the market reaction remains relatively benign. The collective apathy will remain...until it doesn't. When it doesn't watch out. Furthermore the Russians will not take this lying down.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:20 | 3386817 falak pema
falak pema's picture

they love taking it in all positions since Gorbatchev/Elstine/putin days.

Its called the soul of slavic nations. They can take pain. Big hearts in the people and bigger scum bags at the top. 

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:27 | 3386845 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The Russians I am sure can counterfeit the value of their loss in any currency they like. In any case Putin has been warning them for over a decade to bring their money home because the day would arrive when they would not be able to get their money out of western banks.

Same goes for the unfortunate depositors. They fell in love with paper and abandoned gold. Everything has a price, including stupidity.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:19 | 3386809 falak pema
falak pema's picture

still beating the drum on a 10 billion economy like its the navel of Eurozone????

They built a casino model it went belly up. Tuff shit Cyprus. You get 10 billion from EU now roll up your sleeves.

There are bigger problems in the world.

Why is US media getting a hard on on Ron Draper's pants and Cyprus's scam and bankruptcy pangs? 

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:24 | 3386830 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The ultimate casino model has got to be the USA but Cyprus nevertheless is important because small holes can sink big ships.

It also sends out a message that if Europe cannot limit the damage with small countries WTF will it be able to do when a Spain, Italy or France start to crumble.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:29 | 3386848 falak pema
falak pema's picture

the damage in Cyprus beyond 10 B is not Euro problem. EZ has made this clear.

Any spill over is russia's problem, its their oligarchy that has invested 30 B + there way beyond Cyprus's GDP.

Bottom line your move Putin and don't forget it stays Nato base...

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:19 | 3386814 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

I like the gold tie.  he's signaling somthing.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:21 | 3386818 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

A bank holiday is an inconvenience but bankers going on holiday permanently would be a blessing.

My guess is that at some point governments and central banks might actually allow the free market some free rein and when things get back to normal after a period of upheavel they will then proclaim themselves as geniuses.

 

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:21 | 3386821 ghandi
ghandi's picture

Just as a fractal spirals, accelerating at its end, so the fiat system draws closer to the drain.

 

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:23 | 3386824 q99x2
q99x2's picture

What a great voice Booshit has. He should have changed his name to match.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:26 | 3386841 seek
seek's picture

This popped up on the bitcoin forums (please check the link out first, haters!) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160292

Small IT business in Cyprus loses 85% of their operational funds in a single event, so they have to shut down.

Repeat this for god knows how many businesses.

Cyprus is fucked.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 19:35 | 3387198 noless
noless's picture

Systemic impoverishment and destruction of the educated class outside the bureaucracy of the party, reminds me of something... Can't put my finger on it though.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 01:48 | 3387859 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

I looked at the link, seek ... REPEAT THAT even for, say, one of the relatively best off countries, Canada, where the Federal government has recently proposed an explicit means to put Canadians through similar Cyprustration.

http://economicsfortherestofus1.blogspot.ca/2013/03/canada-plans-for-it-own-cyprus-scenario.html

The fact that Canada plans for its own Cyprus scenario shows the degree of global coordination by the transnational banksters. The way that the political party that currently forms the government of Canada has more money than all the other political parties combined also demonstrates how god damn difficult, and practically impossible to fix, these kinds of problems are! The government of Canada was able to give away more than 100 billion dollars to the biggest Canadian banks during the 2008 related global crises, while the mass media in Canada barely mentioned that that had happened. (For plenty of links to that story, skim through this forum thread on Some Monetary System articles.) Despite immediately adding more than 50 billion dollars to a growing public debt, directly due to that, the next elections did not raise those issues. Generally speaking, between the puppet politicians who work for the transnational banksters having by far the most money, while the mass media systematically lies by omission, and thus help the government to look good, while the government actually behaves in outrageously evil ways, there is no reasonable hope for the foreseeable future.

Even AFTER one figures out what is theoretically wrong, there are no practical political solutions, since the established systems have every advantage, in terms of their puppet politicians having way more money, while the mass media put on puppet shows starring those puppets, and their controlled opposition puppets, while nobody else is allowed to appear in those mass media political puppet shows. Therefore, everything important actually gets worse, faster! AND, MEANWHILE, it also looks like nature going nuts is going to trump our civilization getting crazier ???

That IT business in Cyprus being wiped out by having it funds frozen, through no fault of its own, but still, being wiped out, is the kind of social storm that destroys people's lives in ways that they could do nothing to prepare for, nor prevent. Since everything appears to be mysteriously interconnected, I tend to believe that the whole world is winding itself up for some set of combined natural and cultural storms beyond our ability to imagine at the present time ...

& I can not put my finger on it that well either, noless ...

By definition, the energy systems operating through the top carnivores in the human ecology EXIST. Those energies may be what we could regard as being "multi-deminsional demons pulling the strings." I repeat that every living thing is surrounded and interpenetrated by energy fields they resonate with, and so, of course, the ruling classes, the banksters, who fill the niches of the top carnivores inside the human ecology, DO TO. There is nothing totally special or unique about that. Every living entity has its own corresponding spirits. However, from a metaphorical perspective, the ruling classes appear as mad demons, who appear getting ready to  go on the rampage, while, simultaneously, natural events look like they are also getting wound up for their own correlated events ...

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:27 | 3386843 machineh
machineh's picture

Bailout II, bItCHeZ.

As in Greece, so in Cyprus.

Let's repeat it again for the slow learners: UNTIL YOU LEAVE THE EURO, YOU JUST KEEP BLEEDING.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:29 | 3386846 Black Markets
Black Markets's picture

For fuck sake...

Still talking about Cyprus? That was last fucking week.

I get it. They got fucked. They deserved it. One of them spent everyones money on toxic Greek bonds. Eat shit dickheads.

Maybe next time they will pay attention? Too late now.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:30 | 3386852 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I hope you can still talk tough when the charade in the USA, Japan and UK also comes to an end.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:54 | 3386952 Black Markets
Black Markets's picture

Fuck you Pan. You and all your Never Never shitheads.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 19:38 | 3387207 noless
noless's picture

Go home markets, you're drunk.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 20:45 | 3387383 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

LOL, did you post in the wrong thread?

Since the Cyprus headlines hit, the markets have been 'confused'. Bonds have been bid, protection has been aggressively chased in credit (CDX) and equity markets (VIX), and FX carry markets have completely decoupled from a quarter-end heat-seeking missile of an equity market.

((sorry, it was such a great line. . .+1, of course!))

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:45 | 3386916 Catullus
Catullus's picture

That was bite one of the shit sandwich.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:58 | 3386964 Vooter
Vooter's picture

LOL...people like you are exactly why 9/11 was hilarious... :-)

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:59 | 3386968 forwardho
forwardho's picture

B.M. your comment leaves  a bitter taste in the either.

 Others misfortune ignored or dismissed shows a lack of compassion and in the end ignorance.

"Next time they will pay attention"?  How sore is your own asshole?  We have all been brutally raped by our masters. The pain has not yet made it to your small, small brain.

There but for the grace of G-D go I, should be your mantra, instead you blame those who had no part in their own financial immoliation.

Remember your callous comment as the pain from your own shattered sphincter consumes you.

 

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:07 | 3386993 Black Markets
Black Markets's picture

Don't think it will happen to me anytime soon. I'm not prone to eating spoonfuls of crusty shit.

Ignorance is not an alibi. These chumps gave their money to two organisations that were eating bucket loads of Greek shit. They guaranteed those organisations with their own tax liabilities.

They lived inside the eurozone.

What did they expect to happen?

If you sleep on the tracks, then expect to be killed.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 21:45 | 3387529 Vooter
Vooter's picture

"If you sleep on the tracks, then expect to be killed."

Yes, exactly! Just like the people jumping off the WTC on 9/11, who thought America's raping of the Middle East would never touch them. And just like the tattooed soldier monkeys from Jesusland who flew over to Iraq and Afghanistan to serve as corporate thugs and hitmen, but who ended up complaining bitterly when they got their arms and legs blown off because someone sold them a bill of goods about "protecting our freedoms." LOL...you may be annoyed by the Cypriots' complaints, but those people appear stoic as hell when you look at all the wailing and teeth-gnashing that went on here in the U.S. after a drop-in-the-bucket 3,000 Americans were killed on 9/11...

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:29 | 3386847 q99x2
q99x2's picture

On another Birinyi says he always worries about things he doesn't understand.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:30 | 3386849 TrustWho
TrustWho's picture

When will the sex slave masters start feeding on the young Cypriot women?

The Bastards in charge must pay for this tragic situation. The sex slave trade is one of the worst crimes against humanity, but its historic track record can never be argued. As in the old days, the daughters of the men in charge are the first to be delivered to the men with the money.

To be politically correct, the young boys will be used too and the old will suffer and die. The hell those bastards have created.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:31 | 3386856 Black Markets
Black Markets's picture

Nurse!!

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 19:56 | 3387248 noless
noless's picture

So I'm pretty crazy right, i like zombie movies and post/apocalyptic fiction/scifi, (just saw the post man, sorta corny, but still ok), silent hill(horror, separate genre); the nurses that are darkness activated, they remind me of things that happen during socialist and communist revolutions(gang mentality leadership structure), but yeah, besides the point obviously. The movie Serenity also gets it.

For most of my life

Just sayin is all. When reality finally grabs you by the collar, it's good to be mentally prepared.

Tldr: nothing important.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:50 | 3386934 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Why should we listen to Richard Nixon's head?

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:03 | 3386981 TrustWho
TrustWho's picture

because it is true.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:33 | 3386862 dojufitz
dojufitz's picture

Guy i know has been to Cyprus and told me it was full of young Russian women who end up as sex slaves in brothels......

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:02 | 3386978 TrustWho
TrustWho's picture

Not only russians as the bastards starting feeding on young russian and east european babes after the Soviet Union collapsed. Once started the trade dies slowly. As I write this I notice the ad for "Meet Ukrainian Singles". Some Ukrainian girl may find utopia, but most will be abused.

I researched the sex trade and step-fathers' risk to the mothers' girls from prior marriage. The step father stastitic surprised me as it was higher than I had ever considered.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:16 | 3387006 Black Markets
Black Markets's picture

"I researched the sex trade"

You goddam pervert. You make me sick.

Fuck you Nixon.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:42 | 3387090 TrustWho
TrustWho's picture

I did it because I was helping abused east european mom and daughters who had been abused by sick people and were raped again by a sick american injustice system. I could not believe the number of sick bastards like you and the fact our justice system and enforcement institutions do so little to put the paedophiles in jail. Most people believe this sickness does not exist in americaand hide in their white castles. 

People like you who play the Sargent Schulze role are a big part of the problem. Wake up Blackey and open your eyes to the evil that surrounds you and do something.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 19:11 | 3387151 Black Markets
Black Markets's picture

Evil surrounds my white castle?

Queen to Queen Rook 4.

Take that pindick.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 19:23 | 3387178 TrustWho
TrustWho's picture

You can call my dick what you want since you swallowed the load last night so well. Your mom taught you well!

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:36 | 3386879 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

     Cyprus better stock up on guns and ammo. They just got moved to the back of the 'bailout bus'...

   Portugal, Spain, Italy, and a few post Soviet States, might have something to say about Cyprus hitting the punch bowl twice. The slow motion train wreck has begun. We have entered an era that not even POMO or the Fed. can tackle. Central Bank intervention  has evolved into the disease, as opposed to the cure.

    The bubble is bigger and more vulnerable than ever.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:43 | 3387092 Just Ice
Just Ice's picture

Exactly right...and the more printing, the larger explosion of debt, the larger and less affordable the debt burden, the bigger the bailout required, the more printing required...vicious circle created.  And the excess liquidity created out of thin air, which cannot solve insolvency, running into and driving bubbles to boot. 

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 21:17 | 3387470 OldE_Ant
OldE_Ant's picture

The Debt Polly Monster wants a cracker!

SQUUUUUAAAAAK.  NAAAAAHHHHOOOOOOWWWW!

SQUAAAAAAK.

There simply isn't enough producing assets to sustain the debt monster anymore - so of course rather than die it like anything else starts to consume itself.

This is exactly what is starting to occur.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 19:34 | 3387196 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

It's not legal to own guns or ammo in Cyprus.  That's why they can get fucked like that with impunity and no fear of consequences....

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 20:51 | 3387398 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

and exactly how fukt is amrka?

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 21:26 | 3387448 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

350 million assault weapons and 50 billion rounds of ammo less so than Cyprus, would be my guess...

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 21:43 | 3387524 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

and yet, still.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 08:19 | 3387802 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

Difficult to say.  The middle class is being systematically and deliberately destroyed as the liberal government currently in power attempts to turn our country from being a republic of disparate states into a single, centrally planned and controlled, socialist nation - quite similar to what is taking place in Europe.  Rather than outright theft, our money is being stolen via devaluation, our chief export to the world is probably inflation, and the government pushes race and class warfare as a mechanism to control and prevent the population from uniting and introducing them to guillotines. 

The educational system in America has been dismantled and replaced by an Orwellian indoctrination system which produces dependant, emotionally unstable "victims", rather than educated, critical thinking, healthy young adults.  Growing up, I studied Latin, Spanish and French in middle school.  These days most students leave high school as unruly illiterates - not even able to read English, much less three other languages.  "Education" has been reduced to the lowest possible common denominator so that no one is "better" than anyone else - the modern product of our educational system is a uniform, liberally indoctrinated and uneducated sheep - modern day slaves to the state without even being able to realize it.  Nearly two entire generations have been indoctrinated and lost this way now.  One more, and that's about the end of the USA.

This does not bode well for the future, but at least at present the "makers" and the "takers" are about 50/50, and there still exists a significant fraction of the population that will not stand for having their rights and freedoms being trampled.  There are still "red lines"  that the government knows it can not cross abruptly without triggering an armed revolution, so they have to resort to a "boiled frog" approach, using a captive media to manufacture propoganda, creating crises and mass-murders, then using those incidents to threaten to confiscate arms, falling back to settling for "just registering" them - until the next manufactured crisis when a few more rights disappear, then a few more, and more, repeating until eventually the frog is boiled and the population cotrolled and enslaved.

So...   I forecast at least several more years ahead of a slow grinding down process until we reach the point where the middle class has been reduced to poverty and our "educational" system turns out enough uneducated and immoral sheep and student loan "debt slaves" with low expectations, that feel no need for any privacy, don't mind government intruding into every area of their lives and controlling everything they do and even think, sheep, completely ignorant of history that don't notice the rights missing that they essentially never experienced or learned about;  until eventually there are so many illegal immigrants and uneducated sheep in this country so completely dependant on the government that a critical mass is reached, and the USA finally and irrevociably becomes the USSA.

It's not here yet, but things are headed that direction.  There are, fortunately, still enough sheepdogs left guarding the flock to prevent this from happening today.  I don't know how much longer that will continue to be true.  The government is doing its best to convince the sheep that the sheepdogs are really wolves, and that they, the actual wolves, are really the protectors that the sheep want and need, instead.  A civil war is still possible.  If it happens, it will be unlike anything this planet has ever seen or experienced in all of recorded history - with a death toll reaching well over 10 million the first 30-60 days as the cities burn, and a probable total of over 100 million direct and indirect casualties overall just here in the USA. 

Given the currently ruling government's mentality, it is quite possible that they would resort to using nukes against the civilian population if such a conflict took place and it appeared that they were losing - after all, those "fly over" states that would be rebelling don't produce much of anything except a majority of the food that the planet consumes.  In that case the outlook would be rather grim for much of the population on planet Earth...

But hey, it will be football season soon enough, and some things, like the Superbowl, or the World Cup, or where King Barack Hussein Obama will take his next bi-monthly vacation at the taxpayers expense, or play his daily round of golf, or what talk show he will appear on next, are REALLY important, so why even worry about things like this?

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 21:14 | 3387463 OldE_Ant
OldE_Ant's picture

lol the CBs have always been the disease! 

The cure is a good smack of pms in the face.   lol

THE SUUUUUuuuuuuPER BUBBLE - coming to an air pocket near you.

Got AIR.  Better get some FAST! GASP!

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:39 | 3386892 cdm
cdm's picture

quick ... multiply the withdrawal limit !!!

 

... by one-third.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:39 | 3386893 Serfs Up
Serfs Up's picture

My time....it is coming.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:41 | 3386899 The Carbonator
The Carbonator's picture

Time to invest in that most precious of all metals LEAD.

Comes in various sizes too.

.22LR, .38 Special / .357, .44 Mag, .30-06, .308 etc.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:03 | 3386984 negative rates
negative rates's picture

32 gold crowns, well not really.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 19:29 | 3387184 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

Good luck buying some.  I bought the last two 50 round boxes of .223 ammo the gun shop got in - nearly three months ago - and they haven't had any since then...  It's like what happens to prices in hyperinflation - they go up and up, then suddenly there is none to be had at any price. 

The FFL behind the counter said he's "on the list", but below DHS, so he has no idea when he might have more.  I'm not completely certain he was joking.  (Sure do love to walk into a store where everyone is open carrying :)

This does not seem like people prepping or people buying because of a possible ban.  This is more like a society preparing for war...

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 19:38 | 3387206 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

Damn.  Dropped the ammo overboard during the boat ride home - along with the gold coins I bought from the coin shop next door - when the boat tipped.  Anyone know of a metal detector that works in really deep water?

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:43 | 3386904 PontifexMaximus
PontifexMaximus's picture

Cyprus=nobrainer of the century

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:44 | 3386908 Catullus
Catullus's picture

If you're going to be limited in withdrawals, you need to go down to the bank every day and take out your 300 euros. And until they actually allow you access to all your money again, you're taking a temporary haircut.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:53 | 3386942 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

There is no such thing as a "temporary haircut".  It either gets cut or not

 

On the other hand, I do get one every three weeks.  You may be on to something.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:51 | 3386920 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

The Bernanke needs to buy up all the Greek bonds, problem solved!  Merkel can provide a liquidity guarantee in exchange for a promise of a few more tons of gold being returned in 10 - 15 years.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 21:25 | 3387483 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

Better yet, he should skip a couple of POMO days, and just buy Cyprus outright.  It could be the 58th state...

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 17:50 | 3386938 LongOfTooth
LongOfTooth's picture

An EU wide deposit insurance and banking system.

The new world order is one step closer.

And the band plays on.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:01 | 3386975 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

    The eur/usd Fibi Extension from 2003 suggests 1.03-1.05 eur/usd over the next 2 years. 

  (better take the red pill and get printing Super Mario.)

     Euro (EUR) vs US Dollar (USD) - 10-years - Currency Chart

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 21:10 | 3387441 OldE_Ant
OldE_Ant's picture

Hey once the YEN trades at 100 to the dollar the Euro 1:1, CDN 1:1, etc. then it will be time for the 'globo' the indestructable undeflatable currency.  

<sarc>When you need safe money, you want the 'Globo'.  Enter hot chick with the new Globos in her hands.  (hot chicks half nude on the front and half nude guys on the back)

Every 100 Globo comes with it's own cell phone, and GPS so you can know where your money is every second of the day.

The Globo powering you and your childrens safety, front to back!

Sponsored by the open market committee, and the friends of Central Banks.</sarc>

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:12 | 3387001 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Good interview. I have no problem with the creditors losing when a bank fails. 

 

Problem is, the depositors are not knowingly creditors, and they are totally lied to about the condition of their banks. How are they supposed to know? 

The ECB is passing failing banks with 'stress tests' to falsely boost confidence and they pressure the ratings agencies to lie about the fucked up sovereign bond assets which the banks are holding. Eurogroup can't hold depositors responsible for EU lies like that. 

 

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:17 | 3387012 gould's fisker
gould&#039;s fisker's picture

And you wonder why the russians didn't step in? When has one bailout ever solved anything in this fucking mess--what's greece on, bailout 13? And it's fucking tiny.  Spain, Italy, anybody eyeing the door now?  There's going to be every fucking Euro country stuck int the exit door jam as soon as any makes a move.  Butt fucking ugly.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:27 | 3387030 Spigot
Spigot's picture

A number of take aways for me from this interview.

First: this guy (who is touted as the leading expert on sovereign debt (and one presumes sovereign debt problems)) was "surprised" by how the EU has handled this and the options they have now made available for other actions...so I would assume that he at least publicly did not have a clue they were going to do an Argentina. Additionally, he seems behind the curve on the EU's strategies and mentality at this point. IE - he is out of the loop. So, that means someone else is running the show, and I would suggest they are not getting very good advise.

Second: there were two times in the interview where the interviewer specificly asked him (basicly) if there was going to be a disintegrating crisis (such as the second question which was regarding the survival of the Euro). Both times Buchheit gulped, lowered his head, and widened his eyes as if trying to avoid looking at something really horrible. His answers were entirely smooth and assuring to both questions, but his body language made entirely opposite messages.

Third, the video seemed to be edited by a ham fisted hamster. A real hack job. But that makes me wonder what was chopped out of the interview, and why. And why did they do such a poor job of the edits. Rushed job? Someone trying to quickly get a soothing, smooth sounding expert out there to reassure the herd?

All in all this re-enforces my perception that we have between 2 weeks and a month to tiddy up any sums and assets to be held outside the "system" before the whole shooting match goes up in smoke...

... and noticing that Canadian Parliment just passed a law enpowering the Canadian gobermint to be able to "confiscate banks"...

... cause, ya know, hey, you could, maybe, need to do that if an asteroid was incoming, right?...

Sure

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 20:23 | 3387319 Spigot
Spigot's picture

OK...mis-informed. The relevent verbage is authorization from the Canadian House of Commons 2013 Economic "Action Plan" pages 144/145. Specificly there states they want to "coordinate and harmonize with other nations" (understand that this "bail-in" shit is seen as a global "solution" by multiple G20 nations...) in having "a robust set of options" to include "bail-in" used to recapitalize "systemicly important" banks...

http://www.budget.gc.ca/2013/doc/plan/budget2013-eng.pdf

 

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 20:59 | 3387414 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

gettin' rather hard to refute the argument that banks own whole nationstates, isn't it.

thanks for both your posts, love it when someone watches body language vs. listens to memes.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 21:59 | 3387559 Spigot
Spigot's picture

Banks/Governments two heads same elites, different modus, different faces. A bank couldn't really by force confiscate deposits, so governments are used as the strong arm here. IMO there are three or four institutional aparratii which form the tenticales of TPTB. Each tentacle has its specific function/use/role. Each is compromised it its own way for use by people in power who you or me probably will never know. The faces of these institutions are intermediaries and pawns of the real authorities.

The interview was "telling" from a number of different angles.

The Canadian document reveals there is a cabal of executers who have a plan to "deal with the problem". However, one thing they have not counted on is that people en masse will choose to turn away from them and their institutions and solutions, and re-form their way of life in such as way as to exclude them and their construct.

I suppose that will suck from their point of view. But will be very liberating from most people's point of view.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 22:46 | 3387650 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I agree with you that there are layers of authority being implemented - and perhaps these layers aren't fully aware of other, competing "authorities" - the whole need to know, circle within circle notion.

one thing that certainly interests me is this apparently new idea of banks with-holding the monies people believe they have stored there.  the average depositor most likely believes every bit of fiat they're credited with having, sits in a vault somewhere, available when requested.  I doubt many realise that it's "first come, first served" going forward, until the fiat dries up.

of course, if one is paying attention. . .

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:41 | 3387079 drswhaley
drswhaley's picture

A name like Buchheit - sounds European for bullsh*t. 

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