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Guest Post: The Chess Game Of Capital Controls

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Jeff Clark of Casey Research,

The best indicator of a chess player's form is his ability to sense the climax of the game.

–Boris Spassky, World Chess Champion, 1969-1972

You've likely heard that the German central bank announced it will begin withdrawing part of its massive gold holdings from the United States as well as all its holdings from France. By 2020, Bundesbank says it wants half its gold reserves stored in its own vault in Germany.

Why would it want to physically move the metal from New York? It's not as if US vaults are not secure, and since Germany already owns the gold, does it really matter where it sits?

You may recall that Hugo Chávez did the same thing in late 2011, repatriating much of his country's gold reserves from London. However, this isn't a third-world dictatorship; Germany is a major ally of the US. So what's going on?

Pawn to A3

On the surface, it may seem innocuous for Germany to move some pallets of gold closer to home. Some observers note that since Russia isn't likely to be invading Germany anytime soon – one of the original reasons Germany had for storing its gold outside the country – the move is only natural and no big deal. But Germany's gold stash represents roughly 10% of the world's gold reserves, and the cost of moving it is not trivial, so we see greater import in the move.

The Bundesbank said the purpose of the move was to "build trust and confidence domestically, and the ability to exchange gold for foreign currencies at gold-trading centers abroad within a short space of time." It's just satisfying the worries of the commoners, in the mainstream view, as well as giving themselves the ability to complete transactions faster. As evidence that it's nothing more than this, Bundesbank points out that half of Germany's gold will remain in New York and London (the US portion of reserves will only be reduced from 45% to 37%).

Sounds reasonable. But these economists remind me of the analysts who every year claim the price of gold will fall – they can't see the bigger implications and frequently miss the forest for the trees.

Check

What your friendly government economist doesn't reveal and the mainstream journalist doesn't report (or doesn't understand) is that in the event of a US bankruptcy, euro implosion, or similar financial catastrophe, access to gold would almost certainly be limited. If Germany were to actually need its gold, regardless of the reason, any request for transfer or sale would be… difficult. There would be, at the very least, delays. At worst such requests could be denied, depending on the circumstances at the time. That's not just bad – it defeats the purpose of owning gold.

But this still doesn't capture the greater significance of this action. First, it reinforces the growing recognition that gold is money. Physical bullion isn't just a commodity, a day-trading vehicle, or even an investment. It's a store of value, a physical hedge against monetary dislocations. In the ultimate extreme, it's something you can use to pay for goods or services when all other means fail. It is precisely those who don't recognize this historical fact who stand to lose the most in an adverse monetary event. (Hello, government economist.)

Second, here's the quote that reveals the ultimate, backstop reason for the move: Bundesbank stated it is a "pre-emptive" measure "in case of a currency crisis."

Germany's central bank thinks a currency crisis is really possible. That's a very sobering fact.

We agree, of course: history is very clear on this. No fiat currency has lasted forever. Eventually they all fail. Whether the dollar goes to zero or merely becomes a second-class currency in the global arena, the root cause for failure is universal and inevitable: continual and perpetual dilution of the currency.

Some level of currency crisis is inescapable at this point because absolutely nothing has changed with worldwide debt levels, deficit spending, and currency printing, except that they all continue to increase. While many economists and politicians claim these actions are necessary and are leading us to recovery, it's clear we have yet to experience the fallout from spending more than we have and printing the difference. There will be serious and painful consequences, sooner or later of an inflationary nature, and the average person's standard of living will be greatly reduced.

And now there are rumblings that the Netherlands and Azerbaijan may move their gold back home. If this trend gathers steam, we could easily see a "gold run" in the same manner history has seen bank runs. Add in high inflation or a major currency event and a very ugly vicious cycle could ignite.

Checkmate

If other countries follow Germany's path or the mistrust between central bankers grows, the next logical step would be to clamp down on gold exports. It would be the beginning of the kind of stringent capital controls Doug Casey and a few others have warned about for years. Think about it: is it really so far-fetched to think politicians wouldn't somehow restrict the movement of gold if their currencies and/or economies were failing?

Remember, India keeps tinkering with ideas like this already.

What this means for you and me is that moving gold outside your country – especially if you're a US citizen – could be banned. Fuel would be added to the fire by blaming gold for the dollar's ongoing weakness. Don't think you need to store gold outside your country? The metal you attempt to buy, sell, or trade within your borders could be severely regulated, taxed, tracked, or even frozen in such a crisis environment. You'd have easier access to foreign-held bullion, depending on the country and the specific events.

None of this would take place in a vacuum. Transferring dollars internationally would certainly be tightly restricted as well. Moving almost any asset across borders could be declared illegal. Even your movement outside your country could come under increased scrutiny and restriction.

The hint that all this is about to take place would be when politicians publicly declare they would do no such a thing. You could quite literally have 24 hours to make a move. If your resources were not already in place, even the most nimble of us would have a very hard time making arrangements.

Once the door is closed, attempting to move restricted assets across international borders would come with serious penalties, almost certainly including jail time. In such a tense atmosphere, you could easily be labeled an enemy of the state just for trying to remove yourself from harm's way.

The message is clear: storing some gold outside your country of residence is critical at this point, and the window of time for doing so is getting smaller. Don't just hope for the best; do something about it while you still can. The minor effort made now could pay major dividends in the future. Besides, you won't be any worse off for having some precious metals stored elsewhere.

If you're moved to take action, know that you're not alone. It's critical that you take these first steps now, while you still can.

The best chess players in the world aren't that way because they can see the next move. They're champions because they can see the next 14 moves.

You only have to see the next two moves to "win" this game. I suggest making those moves now before your government declares checkmate.

 

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Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:35 | 3390326 Croesus
Croesus's picture

 

 

 

THINK "DEPOSITOR HAIRCUTS" WON'T HAPPEN IN THE US???

 

http://www.fdic.gov/about/srac/2012/gsifi.pdf

READ PAGE 6, SECTION 13:

An efficient path for returning the sound operations of the G-SIFI to the private sector would be provided by exchanging or converting a sufficient amount of the unsecured debt from the original creditors of the failed company into equity. In the U.S., the new equity would become capital in one or more newly formed operating entities. In the U.K., the same approach could be used, or the equity could be used to recapitalize the failing financial company itself — thus , the highest layer of surviving bailed-in creditors would become the owners of the resolved firm. In either country, the new equity holders would take on the corresponding risk of being shareholders in a financial institution.”

 

Who do you suppose a "creditor" is referring to, Mr. and Mrs. Depositor?

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:36 | 3390345 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

0% interest on savings combined with inflation is the same thing as?? 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:43 | 3390368 Croesus
Croesus's picture

True enough, but we know this because we're smart and we read sites likes this. A direct and in your face "haircut" will make the rest of 'Merika learn real quick, and that won't be pretty.

 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:01 | 3390443 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

The biggest problem with moving assets overseas (if you do not go with them) is who can you trust to keep them for you?

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:14 | 3390487 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

The biggest problem with keeping any assets is who can you trust to watch over them when you're not there?

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:15 | 3390630 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Global Socialist Tyranny

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:29 | 3390664 markmotive
markmotive's picture

What's old is new again.

Weekend time-killer: Nial Ferguson's Ascent of Money (TV series)

http://www.planbeconomics.com/2013/03/weekend-viewing-niall-fergusons-as...

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:57 | 3390712 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Physical + Hole + Amnesia = The only winner in town

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 06:48 | 3391007 negative rates
negative rates's picture

They must not have gotten the 9-11 memo, currency crisis anyone?

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 10:56 | 3391323 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

World Chess Challenge going on right now to determine the next challenger to current World Champion Vishy Anand of India. 

Just two rounds to go and former World Champion Vladimir Kramnik has moved into the lead ahead of wunderkind Magnus Carlsen of Norway.  Can Magnus do it?!!  Watch it live Sunday & Monday (10:00AM NY):

http://london2013.fide.com/index.php

/geek

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 00:48 | 3390789 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

As long as man is cursed with government you won't have secure ownership of anything, including your life.

Everything is open to confiscation by government.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 06:17 | 3390982 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

buy land, apartment, house, in your name or company name here in Patagonia .." if that is hard for you , put it in my girlfriends name...she will manage it for you..
eg TOP of the line apart/hotel 100ft from ski lift ..for $2400 square meter.
Immediate returns in paper dollars , not cheap..but abroad.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 11:12 | 3391226 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Trouble is even if your have relatives in multiple, multiple, countries like I do.Do you

trust your family ?

From bitter experience,its a poor choice between family, and the banks in the best of times..

Even I could not blame them,if the choice was their kids starving in the worst.

Getting it out is hardly an issue anyway,if you live on the coast, and have a boat in Florida.

Not that I have any ,you understand.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 11:34 | 3391432 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

I live in Florida. Unfortunately, I had a boating accident and now cannot afford another boat. First I have to buy some SCUBA gear.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 09:07 | 3393150 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

you sound stupid enought to actually dump it in the sea,but i think you are full of shit with nothing t o say.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 18:41 | 3392402 thewhitelion
thewhitelion's picture

I know this guy in Peru . . .

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 20:52 | 3392604 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

"The biggest problem with moving assets overseas (if you do not go with them) is who can you trust to keep them for you?"

A:  Use same criteria, skepticism, due diligence as you would with even the "very best" of domestic investment houses -- like Goldman Sachs.  With and w/o sarcasm.

Sorry, you "magic bullet" addicts, but there are NO GUARANTEES with anything in life or investment.  Plan, diversify accordingly.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:21 | 3390508 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

Horseshit........you store your gold "somewhere" else and gl to you.......you store it where you can get to it.....If you don't HOLD it YOU dont own it

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 00:07 | 3390729 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Exactly.  I know exactly which local lake all my PMs are sunk in.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 08:23 | 3391103 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

I mailed my gold and silver to Blythe Masters for safe keeping

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 11:59 | 3391494 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture

"...I mailed all my..."

Ha ha ha...Ya, Right..!!

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 21:23 | 3392666 scam_MERS
scam_MERS's picture

I need to start diving in a bunch of lakes (as a new hobby, y'understand), knowing how "boating accidents" seem to be on the rise exponentially!

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 00:11 | 3390736 Solarman
Solarman's picture

Agreed, he is asking us to do what Germany is trying to undo.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 20:57 | 3392617 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Nobody (not even I) is saying that you shouldn't hold some portion of PM yourself, as long as you don't deceive/delude yourself that holding it is a 100% magic bullet.  There is ALWAYS some scenario, where a particular asset form -- even gold PM bullion -- is not the solution you hoped for. 

"Hope is NOT an acceptable solution."  Adjust & mitigate accordingly... for a range of nasty scenarios that could kibosh even your fine PM plans.  Flexibility & resiliency in diversity is key, maybe even crucial.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:39 | 3390357 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

half by 2020?

 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:18 | 3390641 SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

Bill's the cat.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 01:08 | 3390818 scrappy
Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:53 | 3390358 NewThor
NewThor's picture

Hey. May I mention that I love you? Each and every one of you. Like Julian Casablancas said, "it is hard to explain."

May all your good dreams be great my brothers and sisters and potential zh ladies I may make out with some day.

:)

!

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:25 | 3390516 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Here's an excellent article on that exact point, in all it's true, but depressing, glory:

 

http://webofdebt.wordpress.com/2013/03/28/it-can-happen-here-the-confisc...

 

Nutshell: As of Dec 2012, FDIC and BOE have agreed the way forward is to take bonholder and depositor money to protect TBTF banks who are sitting on Trillions in derivatives. TBTF banks are first in line and depositors are thrown under the bus and will be completely wiped out. Any FDIC protection is henceforth nonexistent and, in fact, any FDIC money will probably go to the derivatives holders as well. 

The focus on derivatives is what is scaring the shit out of them... finally! Looks like they have finally figured out that there really is going to be daisy chain of failures leading to economic Doomsday if just one of them goes down.

If the SHTF and B of A goes down you can bet Federal government will also do something and try to make everybody else pay their 'fair share" with a new tax on everybody.

 

 

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 02:38 | 3390891 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

They are definitely going to do this, there is no other way of keeping people from leaving the banks and the US.  Also in regard to the confiscation of gold in certain countries not being done when the US makes it hard to move assets anywhere including said person, I have this to say.  It will be katy bar the door in regards to rules and promises made by anybody on the planet when the US and the western financially system implodes.  Do the article writer actually believe that whatever country won't first take foreign gold holdings (if the people running the company hadn't already stole it) first via nationalizing the accounts before taking the citizens accounts.  Remember one think about the US, we are a nation of spenders who have been spending on credit.  Once our money isn't worth anything on the international market, we will be a third world nation overnight. 

 

They will confiscate gold and bank boxes and anything of value.  What will happen is a new currency will be formed but it will be based on a combination of resources (silver, gold, platinum, whatever as long as a combination of them are in the right percentage to be redemed if need be).  The US will agree to this with the rest of the world, but the US will do something different (other countries may or may not).  The US will still use greenbacks (highly inflated) for internal use, and the new currency will be for external use via companies, banks, international trade (and you know rich people).  They will make it illegal or expensive for people in the US to use or have this new currency since it will be based on resources that have been confiscated or still being confiscated and hoarded.  This way the US can pay all their internal liabilities with the greenback which will be almost worthless everywhere else.  We will be a third world nation and peoople will be fighting to get out of the US.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 02:57 | 3390901 defencev
defencev's picture

How do you know all of that?

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 05:36 | 3390959 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Because that is similar to how the Soviet Union operated.   Rubles for peasants, hard currencies for external transactions (like WHEAT). 

 

 

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 06:21 | 3390989 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

lol, if the US and Europe become third world nations,, that does make most of this planet equal.
Move to Rio, Brazil Have a blast for ten years.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 21:01 | 3392627 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I'd be worried -- very worried -- about having all my eggs in one country or even one global region.  I just no longer don't trust the political class/whores that are the servants of indebted banks and central banks, in 'developed' countries with aging demographics and sky high debt.

Financial haircuts and decapitations (401k, IRA) are coming to N.Am. next 6-12 months.  Plan accordingly.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:34 | 3390338 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

APMEX shipped my silver dimes via USPS.  Liable to get lost in the mail.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:48 | 3390393 DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

Red Arrow is for APMEX

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:09 | 3390469 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

I hear you.  I don't red arrow.(ok, I did once but I explained why as did you and that is fair)  I have not been so happy with APMEX in the past so I ripped them a bit a above.  We will see what I get.  A bunch of tubes of sliders I would guess but the price was right.  I am not expecting much here but as one astute ZHer pointed via Blazing Saddles, we are going to need us a shitload of dimes.

I ain't handing out any more of my BU dimes much less an AE or Maple.  I was tempted to buy the Mercs this time around but you just know those fuckers are super smooth and cost per ounce goes up.  The other thing you might as well assume is that most Americans would not know what a Mercury dime is anyway.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:38 | 3390540 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

Mercury Dimes are the dimes Gus Grissom took with him in his Mercury capsule, the Liberty Bell 7...  right?

/sarc/

http://voices.yahoo.com/are-astronaut-gus-grissoms-lost-mercury-dimes-ac...

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:06 | 3390608 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Mercury dimes are only a currency on the planet Mercury.  The only exchange is in the deep gaseous atmosphere of Venus.  The dimes do not even really exist and are traded as 1000X bull derivatives.  You can't lose.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 00:20 | 3390743 akak
akak's picture

Actually, the average American should not know what a "Mercury dime" is, because in fact there never was any such coin issued by the US government.  They are actually, and properly, called Liberty Head dimes, with the personification of Liberty wearing a winged hat symbolizing freedom of thought.  I' never figured out how so many idiots could somehow confuse a winged hat with the winged sandals of Mercury, the messenger of the Roman gods (as seen in the Goodyear tire symbol).

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 00:58 | 3390808 Bohm Squad
Bohm Squad's picture

Mercury also wore a winged hat to match his sandals...I was there, I know.

 

 

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 01:25 | 3390838 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

Unlike silver-backed currency like Mercury Dimes, we now get fiat that comes from Ben Bernankes as$.

These are known as "Uranus Dollars"

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 04:01 | 3390917 August
August's picture

Indeed, if you wear winged sandals, without a winged helmet, you flip over every time. 

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 08:34 | 3391115 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Not if you are on a winged Segway

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 01:09 | 3390821 scrappy
scrappy's picture

Nice.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 02:57 | 3390903 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

OK, akak, liberty advocate that you have been over the years.(I recognize that fact)  My blue book says that they are Winged Liberty Head OR Mercury dimes.  We are both correct.  Technically, you are more concise so I concede that fact.  Now we just need to come up with some tubes of Draped Bust dimes in MS-63 or better.  I have never even seen one for sale.  You? 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:12 | 3390484 Rob Jones
Rob Jones's picture

USPS "insurance" isn't reliable either. If your package arrives empty and you file an insurance claim, they will probably just deny it and refuse to pay. This has happened to people I know. The only way USPS will pay is if the post office flat out loses the package. Actually, the insurance mainly serves to alert postal employees that the package contains a high-value item.

Anyone shipping by USPS should be sure to very firmly attach the item being shipped to the package. Ideally so that it is impossible to get the item without totally destroying the package.

 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:54 | 3390574 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Thanks Rob.  I've been in physical PM's for 14 years so I at least sort of know my way around the physical market.  I really like the rare Russian numismatic coins but when it comes to something like that, you rally need to be there in person with the loupe to inspect the coin to determine it's investment potential. 

Basically, I bought some junk silver dimes this time.  Hey, I have sold physical silver in the past.  I paid for my son's birth by doing so.  Hey, lighten up guys.  I was just having some fun by buying some dimes.  Anyone knows that these dimes will be common date sliders but that is all I am willing to trade with anymore if need be.

Yes, If you want BU you have to pay this amount.(and I have some rolls from back when they were a hell of a lot less expensive)

http://www.coastcoin.com/DirectionsWEB/webcart_itemBuy.php?baseid=103807&serialid=0

I am more than 2X up on that.

Everyone wants a big bullion bar to prove they have some balls but the reality of it is this:  What if you just want to buy a little bit of something?  How is that bar going to be divided?  By dimes is how.  Premiums on dimes have went through the roof over the last few years.  I was "lucky" to get in early on some BU dimes.  Most people do not think about that sort of thing and really luck has nothing to do with it.

I am not too worried about the shipping. 

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 06:33 | 3390997 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

a silver bullion bar is having some balls? i hope you are talking gold? . i would have ten in sliver it i had access.
balls is putting what i put in miners and pslv.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:11 | 3395672 Nation of Imbeciles
Nation of Imbeciles's picture

Shipping via USPS Registered mail is the most reliable and INCLUDES priority mail shipping. Registered mail is placed in a security container and a signature trail fr4om shipper to recipient is established.

I agree that the USPS is utterly worthless but there are ways to practically guarantee safe passage.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:16 | 3390637 San Diego Gold Bug
San Diego Gold Bug's picture

Comparesilverprices.com will tell you who to buy your 90% junk silver from and at the best price.  Sadly, all of my silver was lost in a tragic boating accident this winter off the coast of San Diego.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:40 | 3390356 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Good thing we are staying put and fighting the sumbitches on our home soil.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:11 | 3390478 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Well said.

Mule Crick isn't that special, unless you've been dug in there for five generations.

 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:42 | 3390362 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Last guy to ask for his gold back gets stuck with:

{titanium | IOU | paper | blank looks | nuttin'}.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 02:41 | 3390893 saulysw
saulysw's picture

Last? Try second ... Or maybe even first.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:41 | 3390363 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

I've visited a lot of countries with currency controls in my life.  Customs forces you to declare the amount of money you are entering or leaving with.  The U.S. had currency controls of this nature for a hundred years.  Look at old immigration forms from the early 1900s.  Each person crossing the border had to state the amount they were carrying and the source of the money.

 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:36 | 3390677 spine001
spine001's picture

It is currently illegal to take or bring more than 10000 usd in any form out or into the USA without declaring it.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 00:51 | 3390793 r3phl0x
r3phl0x's picture

But you can count US coins at face value - and carry around $320k in American Gold Eagles w/o declaring them. 

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 04:12 | 3390923 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

What would a Maple or Austrian Philharmonic be valued at given they are not US currency? ZzzzzzzeeeerrrrooooO

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 05:41 | 3390963 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Guess you could do that with 10,000 silver dollars too.   

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 06:27 | 3390994 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

currently ...lol
it has been that way since i can remember, so that is 30 years plus

i have always wondered why they do not take inflation into account.

i always bring back 10k per person a gold chain per person two or three electronic devices and a shit load of ski equipment...

i have done occasional green or transparent little rocks.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:50 | 3390700 btb2010
btb2010's picture

my, what a lovely necklace, earings  and ring you have :    4 + carat ; D E F ; F IF VVS  @ > $2 MM per trip

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 06:29 | 3390995 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

EXACTLY!

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:42 | 3390367 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

why will it take 6 years to ship 4 plane loads worth of the krauts' gold back to them?

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:57 | 3390428 HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

They have to remember where their boat crashed, of course.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:09 | 3390613 Matt
Matt's picture

If they are requesting their specific bars with specific serial numbers on them, it will take quite a bit of time to unwind all the chains of rehypothecation, as well as actually locating (or recovering) the specific bars.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:17 | 3390634 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Either it hasn't been dug out of the ground yet or the Fed knows the gig is up well before then and we'll need as much of it here as possible.

 

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 11:05 | 3391347 gordsav
gordsav's picture

   60   countries    have  been   germanied   by  the    ny   fed     60.....   the   united states  is  a   straightforward   criminal   enterprise     the   gold  is   long   since   stolen.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:17 | 3390636 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Double post.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 09:43 | 3391198 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

It takes a while to create an excuse to invade Germany.

 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:43 | 3390370 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

<< If Germany were to actually need its gold, regardless of the reason, any request for transfer or sale would be… uncomfortable.>>

 

It's like asking your 'best friend' back the money you lent him....not only difficult, but you'll probably lose your money and your friend at the same time.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:53 | 3390704 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

A friend would pay you back promptly and unpromted.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 09:27 | 3391181 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

It's more like asking the school bully to give back the lunch money he borrowed from you last year.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 11:09 | 3391362 gordsav
gordsav's picture

  not  exactly   that   gold   is  long   since   in  beijing   it  was    simply   stolen   by  the   most   despised   country   in  the   world   put  not  your   trust  in   blintzes

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 11:09 | 3391363 gordsav
gordsav's picture

  not  exactly   that   gold   is  long   since   in  beijing   it  was    simply   stolen   by  the   most   despised   country   in  the   world   put  not  your   trust  in   blintzes

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:43 | 3390372 ali-ali-al-qomfri
ali-ali-al-qomfri's picture

bank runs = usurarrhea

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:43 | 3390373 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

The sunset of the USDollar has a blueprint.

As a personal embroidery, let me state that this article is the most important the Jackass has ever written.

Let it be taken seriously for its grave somber message.

USDollar: Ring-Fenced & Checkmate

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1364601600.php

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:05 | 3390459 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

that guy can weave a story...............

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:56 | 3390706 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

I do love the Golden Jackasses freestyle rants!

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 09:22 | 3391174 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

;-)>

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:23 | 3390375 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

So the whole point of the exercise to supress the price of gold has been to:

1.  Ruin the majority of speculators on the physical exchanges

2.  Create the perception of risk in the metals markets to supress pedestrian demand.

3.  Supress demand untill capital controls kick in and make  the use of metals at a minimum risky and inconvenient or outright prohibited.

Fucken diabolical

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:46 | 3390388 sitenine
sitenine's picture

Baffling.. Why the fuck would anyone want to move gold outside their own country? It doesn't all fit in the safe, or what?

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:49 | 3390395 honestann
honestann's picture

Because they intend to move themselves too.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:59 | 3390436 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yes.  We too want to keep our options open re moving out.  Assets first if possible, then be prepared to move out.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:36 | 3390538 espirit
espirit's picture

Sort of like throwing your stash bag over the fence, before climbing it?

No, thank you very much.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:44 | 3390557 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

A = Jim Rogers, Jim Rickards, Peter Schiff, Nigel Farage.

Q = All in the same place at what event, where? 

Not saying... Wait till tomorrow.  ;-)

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 10:28 | 3390835 honestann
honestann's picture

I believe you mean the SimonBlack shindig.  :-)  Woops!

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:48 | 3390394 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

not that crap again!

Well, Cyprus is outside your borders, remember!

Where will you have us move it? Germany? Swiss bank? China? Russia?

It's BS, like there are no governments or central banks or fiat currencies outside of US borders.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:08 | 3390465 rlouis
rlouis's picture

It would be worth exploring the possible destinations - where would one go in the event of fascist takeover declaration of martial law? Which countries have respect for law, semi-independent of the Washington hegemony, open to expats, not a strategic target for aggression due to resources, a consitutional framework of government, and the bushes and neo-nazis aren't there already?

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:15 | 3390624 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

After 43 years in exile... I landed here.

http://www.bikeforyourlife.com/images/image001.jpg

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 01:06 | 3390814 rlouis
rlouis's picture

Very nice.  May your political leaders actually have the wisdom which all who aspire to such positions claim to admire and respect.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:20 | 3390500 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Watch ths space comrades...but recall FATCA is breathing down your collective necks bitchez

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:28 | 3390512 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Frankly, anyone who adopts the perspective that the only "safe" way to store PMs is by physically holding them in (or around) one's home doesn't have a clue. There are several very important disadvantages to that approach, and those disadvantages are turned into advantages when one holds gold intelligently outside of the U.S. 

I've mentioned them on a number of previous occasions, but will do so again for the benefit of those who may still be weighing their options, and are open-minded, as opposed to the myopic "if you don't hold it in your hand..." group.

a) stored in a secure, independent vault (obviously more secure than storing oneself, irrespective of the number of guns you have)

b) insured (extremely difficult if not impossible when self-stored)

c) ability to sell into the world markets at very short notice (good luck with that in large   amounts from your home stash)

d) ability to ship anywhere in the world, securely and insured

e) if the U.S. were to apply strict capital controls, it would be a clear advantage to have PMs stored outside of the country

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:31 | 3390526 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Exactly & will add be prepared to move it at a moments notice

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 01:11 | 3390827 scrappy
scrappy's picture

Move Where?

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:38 | 3390542 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

and what if "outside of the country"  were to apply strict capital controls? 

 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:59 | 3390554 Tinky
Tinky's picture

That will not happen in countries such as Singapore and Switzerland. Given that their economies revolve around international finance, it would literally be national suicide to freeze or attempt to confiscate foreign assets. They are also both very stable.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:05 | 3390586 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

 

It has already happened in Switzerland. Wake up.

Any bank there wont let you closer than a mile with your US passport.

And if some will - report of all your activity will go out to Uncle Sam.

And per US request they WILL freeze anything.

Singapore is another Cyprus waiting to happen anytime - tax haven, "bad" money.

That's one, and two open up a wikipedia and read it's history - not very reassuring to me.

 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:14 | 3390617 Tinky
Tinky's picture

You don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about. 

First, who is talking about banks? I certainly wasn't, and that should have been obvious. What part of "independent vault" did you fail to comprehend? Secondly, it is perfectly legal to buy, sell and store PMs abroad. There are various IRS reporting requirements, but that's not a major issue.

The U.S. government cannot, and will never be able to freeze assets in private vaults based abroad.

As for Singapore being comparable to Cyprus, the assertion is so absurd that it isn't even worth addressing.

Be to sure to check back in when you have done some rudimentary homework.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:20 | 3390635 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

Oh, yes, "independent vault"  has no risk at all.

Ever heard of 24/7 Private Vaults in Las Vegas?

 good luck to you.

 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:22 | 3390650 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Your ignorance is now becoming tedious.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 00:06 | 3390665 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

OK

2 years ago everyone believed that secrecy, privacy and independence of swiss banking account was more certain than death.

Then shit happened.

Swiss folded to Fed.

Can you guarantee they will not fold again and change regulations for "independant vallts"?

Can you guarantee FED will not do the same in Singapore ?

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 00:19 | 3390754 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Again, you don't have a clue. The U.S. was able to pressure banks because of their ability to threaten them with access to the SWIFT system, etc. They have no such leverage over private vaults. If they were to attempt to freeze or confiscate assets in private vaults, they would need the local sovereign governments to step in and do the dirty work, and that will not happen in countries such as Switzerland and Singapore.

I'm not talking about the U.S. claiming that an individual is using assets for terrorist support, which they could only conceivably claim in rare instances. I'm talking about your fantasy of some wholesale effort by the Government to seize its citizen's assets held outside the banking system in foreign countries. It would be hellishly difficult, or in most cases impossible. The Government would be infinitely smarter to simply tax the hell out of PM sales, and they are far more likely to do that rather than attempt to physically seize PMs.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 00:42 | 3390787 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

you have no idea what you're talking about.

Swiss banking is regulated by Swiss Financial Markets Authority - the goverment agency!

Without swiss goverment bending backwards to the FEDS and changing regulations no fucking SWIFT system would matter.

Swiss goverment just as easy can fuck your "independant vaults" regulations any time per US pressure. 

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 00:53 | 3390799 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Feel free to believe that the Swiss government will pull the trigger leading to its country's economic suicide by allowing foreign governments to seize legally held assets in private vaults.

I don't believe that it will happen.

 

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 13:40 | 3391728 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

what? 

you are saying that some shitty "private vaults" industry is more important for swiss than The Banking Industry?!

That they will protect "independent vaults, but had no problem fucking 100's years old principals of banking already!

You are delusional, my friend.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 06:38 | 3390999 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

tinkette , the Swiss make the safe scanners!

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:22 | 3390647 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

As for Singapore being comparable to Cyprus, the assertion is so absurd that it isn't even worth addressing.

Do try anyway.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 11:24 | 3391404 Bullionaire
Bullionaire's picture

Dude, give it a rest.  You're missing the distinction between the international banking system (run by the fiat mafia) and private businesses which happen to be in the business of vaulting.  If governments worldwide suddenly start selectively fucking with private businesses, then the fascist takeover is begun and we're all toast no matter what.  Tinky's hope is that TPTB won't push it that far for fear of the massive backlash it would create.  You seem to think it's already happened.

 

Good luck.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 00:08 | 3390732 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

This festering desire of yours to appear knowledgable about an issue where your complete ignorance of the bottom line facts is trumped only by your willingness to employ invective, dismissive subterfuge and empty rhetorical sleight of hand has once again broken surface, only weeks after the summary execution of your last attempt at posting misleading gibberish masquearading as advice to those sincerely seeking help with this subject. 

What part of 'take your own advice' before droning on about subjects out of your depth do you not understand? Further to which, may I suggest that you hook up your hands to whatever 'rudimentary' form of a brainstem you are able to locate before posting your arrogant armchair pontifications here?

http://www.goldmoney.com/documents/US-VIAMAT.pdf

I have assembled a compendium of some of your greatest insights, which post-Cyrpus bail-in style new realities blooming all round, read like a Comedy Special -

but no one has presented a shred of evidence that an American citizen who has acquired, or does acquire PMs legally, and complies with the tax code, might be at risk by storing such metals abroad in through/with non-bank entities....Have any non-bank entities based in Switzerland, Hong Kong or Singapore been intimidated and forced to give up customer assets? No....Be sure to check back in when you can actually provide directly relevant information that demonstrates that holding legally obtained PMs in non-bank accounts in those countries is dangerous.... You make dubious leaps such as Corzine to PM confiscation, and blithely ignore the complex political realities involved in the U.S. actually attempting to confiscate legal, privately held assets in foreign countries... No matter what you may believe, the slope isn't so slippery that owners of such assets wouldn't have sufficient time to ship, sell, or collect them before such radical measures were put into place...If you are arguing that the U.S. will make the holding or sale of gold illegal (a highly dubious premise), and that under those circumstances it will be able to compell foreign companies and governments to roll over and freeze or disgorge private assets, that is a different discussion. We are nowhere near that point, in any case...Let's take Via Mat, to use one, prominent example. They are not a bank, and yet enormous amounts of PMs (and other valuables) are stored in their facilities. Do you somehow imagine that they will allow foreign governments to seize private assets from their vaults?

Here we are, post-Cyprus...post-Viamat forced to end customer relationships with American private holders by strong arm government tactics...and you must be the very last person on Earth to get the drift...any wonder I titled you Space Cowboy, and brother from another planet?

Is that you Diesel-Boom?

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 00:45 | 3390780 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Perhaps you aren't aware of it, but ad hominem attacks are not substitutes for serious arguments. In fact, they invariably suggest that the author of them has little of substance to offer. Nevertheless, I will respond briefly to your two main themes.

Cyprus, which is all about banks, is a straw man, as I have never suggested using the banking system.

Via-Mat is, to an extent, a red herring, as they simply stopped accepting individual American accounts. They made a business decision, and yes were, in a sense, bullied into to doing so. That isn't remotely the same as allowing a foreign government to seize assets. 

Via-Mat also has a presence in the U.S., ergo the U.S. had leverage over them. 

You, like the other one-note Charlies, apparently imagine that one day everything will be as it is today, and the next day the U.S. will be seizing assets held in foreign jurisdictions. That is pure fantasy. There will be considerable turbulence in the markets, and Gold will appreciate significantly before the U.S. takes any drastic actions. By that time, intelligent holders of PMs will have already traded some or all of their holdings for other hard assets.

Finally, the irony of your above "compendium" is that you have yet to refute a single one of my basic assertions repeated within.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 02:10 | 3390876 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Thank you for your contribution...

with it, I can now rest my case, and leave it to the reader to discern the difference between your narrow literalism(of the kind that even our less-blessed simian cousins eschew in favour of the faculty of extrapolating from empirically-provided evidence in order to simply survive)and a reading of the digest of current events that would leave even a child better equipped to interpret events than the spectacle of sorry sadsack who you present yourself to be here.

Ad-homimens? lol...

I would have termed you a half-wit, but there's no need for me to overstate the dispensation which the Creator(or his Nemesis)seems to have saddled you with...so Space Cowboy it is!

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 09:22 | 3391173 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Readers are, of course, encouraged to judge my views on their merits. But whether you agree or disagree with them, note the blinding contrast between my posts, and those made by someone who, lacking any serious, substantive argument, resorts instead to this:

attempt at posting misleading gibberish...

whatever 'rudimentary' form of a brainstem you are able to locate...

would leave even a child better equipped to interpret events...

sorry sadsack who you present yourself to be here...

I would have termed you a half-wit...

 

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 10:09 | 3391217 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

err, the 'blinding' contrast is prolly due to the effect of puffed up eyes sire. This will surely ease with rest and a couple of days in traction. 

Time to apply the smelling salts, and ice packs, then stagger back to the dressin room in as dignified manner as can be mustered. Have to admire your persistance in the face of inevitable defeat, but in this case, it borders mightily pon that old aphorism about repetitive action and irrational expectations of different result....

this is ZH...you do remember registering right?

R U Jerry Quarry?

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 10:17 | 3391236 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Your consistently substance-free attacks, coupled with hilarious bluster, are eerily reminiscent of the famous armless Monty Python knight, hopping around while exclaiming:

"It's only a flesh wound!"

Indeed.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 11:30 | 3391422 Bullionaire
Bullionaire's picture

JOYFUL is obviously Brad DeLong or some such.  Pay no attention.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 01:58 | 3390863 aka_ces
aka_ces's picture

How good is Singapore's military ?

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:55 | 3390579 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

You can answer your question by first re-framing your question (asking the 'right' question) and a bit of due diligence.

Right Q: What countries have a liquidity or solvency problem, based on their fiat currency? Which ones are and are not in danger of (a) their sovereign debt overwhelming their GDP, and (b) their banks being over-leveraged?

When you do your homework and turn the crank, you will find that some countries and banks are far more robust than others.  You must then move a portion of your assets to those places, to counter the risk created by your country and its banks. 

These trouble-countries are trying to preempt the coming disaster (they'll try to slow and limit capital outflow) with deliberate attacks on its small and weak members, to shore up the confidence in the core members.  While they can -- and thus buy time for themselves to get their lifeboats ready.  You and your lifeboat are on your own, I am sorry to say.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:04 | 3390606 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

I know, I know.

But I have a feeling people who write like that have never been to any other country other than Cancun.

There are more to "be well" than just healthy banking system. 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:25 | 3390515 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Any Cypriots that kept half of their money in a bank outside of Cyprus in another EZ country now has more of their savings left than the ones that didn't.  Plus they don't have any problem getting that money out of the country now either, if they so desire.

Anyone stupid enough to keep all their eggs in the same basket deserve what they will get in the not too distant future.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:35 | 3390535 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

ha-ha!

and any russian that kept his money outside of his country in cyprus "safe haven" is now fucked!

Dude, think first, type later.   

And if cypriots just had gold buried in their back yards, they'b be chilling now, regardless.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:18 | 3390639 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

I heard that the Russians mostly got their money out of Cyprus.  I don't think they viewed Cyprus as a "safe haven" -- more likely a profit center.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 07:56 | 3391071 de3de8
de3de8's picture

Landromat

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 00:23 | 3390760 AgentScruffy
AgentScruffy's picture

There were plenty of firms in the expat/service; SHTF crowd/service categories, hocking Cyprus bank accounts prior to the meltdown. These were offered alongside Belize, Latvian, Mongolian, Dominican, etc. etc. bank accounts.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:51 | 3390405 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

Bill Black? Is that you?

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 21:56 | 3390425 Manipuflation
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Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:01 | 3390444 short screwed
short screwed's picture

Well done!

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:08 | 3390452 honestann
honestann's picture

The predators will trying every form of fear tactic, but they won't work.

As long as private flights out of private terminals exist (not to mention private landing strips far from civilization), people will be able to get their gold and platinum out of any country.  Note that I omit silver, because silver is too heavy and bulky to move in large quantities, though that may change.

One reason I got my dinky little 650-pound high-tech pipistrel virus sw 100 (912iS) with extreme range fuel tanks (and additional portable fuel blatters for the cabin) was to make sure I could fly anywhere on the planet... undetected.  The range (without the fuel blatters) is 4000km+, and with them, over 6000+km (though that's a long way to sit in one tiny seat at 250kph (economy speed) or even 300kph (full speed)).  But it can do with all its modern "glass panel" instrumentation, including GPS, autopilot, etc.

If the government go "full retard", you can be sure that I'm not the only one who flies from country to country (through the mountains, just above water, etc), and is never noticed.  Also, inexpensive private drones are already at a point where they can fly several pounds of gold or platinum across borders, so the technology just keeps getting better all the time.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:35 | 3390537 delacroix
delacroix's picture

honestann   does that run on 110 avgas.   what part of the globe do you reside?

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:46 | 3390559 Freebird
Freebird's picture

 

Watch out for the spooks!

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 00:15 | 3390745 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Rotax 912s are designed to run on Mogas but can handle 100LL.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 01:33 | 3390832 honestann
honestann's picture

The Rotax 912iS (very new model) is extremely efficient (as is my "virus sw" airplane) and they run on regular automobile gasoline.  It prefers "premium" grades of auto fuel, but works just fine on "regular" grades too.  The 912iS runs on avgas too, but my plan is to never put any fuel with lead in my wonderful toy.

Where I live, real gasoline is cheapish and easy to find ("real gasoline" meaning "no ethanol").  I don't reveal where I am, but you can find the places on my "final chose list" in previous posts.  Here are a few possibilities, but I'm not saying which if any is correct:  Mongolia, Nepal, Vanuatu, Fiji, CookeIslands, obscure south-pacific island, Peru, Chile, Argentina.  I accidentally admitted I'm in the southern hemisphere previously, so I will continue to admit that much.  I live in the extreme boonies, only about 20 people within 120km of me, and my spot cannot be reached by land.

So yes, I do need to fly at least 120km to get fuel.  But I always bring home as much extra fuel as I can, and so far have managed to store about 2,000 gallons in tanks here at home.  Hopefully I can increase that to 10,000 gallons in the next couple years, but I have to fly it in (in my extended range tanks (in the wings), and in portable fuel blatters I carry along with me.  When I leave home, I always leave with only 2 or 3 gallons and head straight for my favorite fuel stop, fill it up, then do my flying for the day.  Before I head home, I stop again, fill my tanks again, plus my fuel blatters, then fly home.  Before I leave again I drain all but 2~3 gallons into my storage tanks.  That's a bit of a pain in the butt, but will end once I have 10,000 gallons stored away.  BTW, my little plane gets about 75mpg (about 32kpl) at economy speed (~250kph), so 2 gallons is enough to get me to my gasoline supplier.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 02:21 | 3390883 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Alright, a strong woman.  That's cool with me.  Your syntax indicates that you are an American.  I would guess that you are in Alaska and I am likely correct.  What would you need 10,000 gallons of fuel for?  Even if 100LL, how would you stabilize that much fuel?

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 10:26 | 3391247 honestann
honestann's picture

I guess you missed the part of my message where I admitted being in the southern hemisphere.  Also, I can no longer tolerate temperatures so cold for so long.  Yes, I lived in the USSA for quite a few years before escaping ahead of the complete predator-ization of the USSA.  I wasn't born in the USSA though, my blood and first language is Chinese.  But that doesn't mean anything, as my attitudes have always been more western than westerners.  In fact, many people have said my attitudes are more western than the old "wild west".

I've always thought of myself (since age 4) as being an alien observer from elsewhere in this universe, without connection to human beings.  Which is to say, I have a very low opinion of human beings (but a very high opinion of what they could be).  I love peace, quiet, solitude and living in extreme boonies.  But I'm an extreme techie (and scientist-engineer by trade), so I'm not a "rough it" type (unless necessary).

The only reason I will ever need 10,000 gallons is if the SHTF in a very serious way.  Like I said, the only practical way for me to leave my home/hideout and go elsewhere (to pick things up) is via my airplane.  Though I'm self-sufficient (as one can be), I don't like the idea of being permanently stuck without access to elsewhere.  Even the most self-sufficient lifestyle can be upset when "something breaks" and I run out of backups.  Murphy's Law is more reliable than best laid plans, even mine.

You mention an issue I wish I knew more about, and maybe you or someone else can help me.  I've read all sorts of inconsistent statements about how to keep my gasoline from going bad over a long period of time.  Some references say it will last decades without problems, while others say 1 or 2 years.  Some references mentions ways to extend the life (keep the storage tanks completely full with no airspace, or add this or that chemical, etc), while others say "nothing you can do".

So I've started my storage plan, and so far "old gas" works the same as "new gas", though my "old gas" is only a few months old.  But please, anyone who knows the answer to this question of fuel lifetime (and lifetime extension), please tell me what you know, or what you think you know.  And tell me how you know, if you don't mind!  :-)

Like I said, the fuel I get is premium unleaded automobile gasoline with zero ethanol content.  I have not put any leaded fuel into my plane or storage tanks, and no ethanol fuel either.  Fortunately for me, in the part of the world I am, getting this fuel is not difficult.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 19:26 | 3392454 silvermail
silvermail's picture

Guaranteed storage of aviation fuel - 5 years from date of manufacture. But this requires proper storage conditions. If you want to extend the shelf life of fuel, then you must to store fuel without significant fluctuations in cold temperatures. For example under the land. This will give you another 3 years, if you laid on the keeping the new gasoline premium class. After 8 years of storage, you can use the old gasoline next 5 years, but only in mix with the new premium class gasoline at a ratio of 1:1. Mixing must be thorough. Usually this is achieved by pumping the old and new gasoline into a common tank. Then, after 72 hours, merges sucks. And then you have to make a second re-pumping in the other clean tank. This mixture can be stored only three years, under proper storage conditions.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 05:08 | 3393048 honestann
honestann's picture

Thanks much for that.  Would you think unleaded, zero-ethanol automobile gasoline would have similar characteristics and requirements?  Is the care and storage life you describe related to the lead content of avgas?  If so, maybe (hopefully) lead-free, ethanol-free will last a bit longer.  Yeah, probably wishful thinking.  My storage is 5 separate 2,000 gallon tanks, so I can keep them completely full if that helps.  That was my plan, on general principles.

Let's say the world really goes down the tubes, and I can no longer get gasoline... period.  Or the price goes so high I simply can't afford any.  Any idea how long I could push these storage limits without doing serious damage to my engine?

In the end, if the "world emergency" lasts for decades, losing lifetime on my engine is better than not having the ability to travel at all.  Unfortunately, if the fuel degrades exponentially, perhaps nothing will help very much.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:04 | 3390454 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Free advice (worth what you paid for it?) - if you plan on moving, do it NOW.  It takes years to be accepted as one of the locals after - even inside the same country - if it's a small community, and of course, that's what you want if you want to avoid starving 2-legged predators.

My money is where my mouth is on this, and I'm loving living in the sticks, while collecting silicon valley type money for telecommuting.  It's a nicer place to live by far to begin with, and a ton cheaper.

I REALLY don't get this idea of putting gold outside your control - this article doesn't make sense to me at all - and if it did, why does Germany want their back?  What a frigging contradiction!  If there are going to be restrictions on movements of money or people, damn, I want my full kit with ME, period, end of story.  Gold protected by (hot, fast) lead seems wiser to this old coot.  That's of course after I bought the farmland that produces, that has springs on it, built some homes on it, and so forth -

If you city dwellers with your little 9mm and stack of gold are going to do well when TSHTF, well...I'm sorry, I don't hang out with stupid.  Enjoy sitting on your stack, starving, while the mobs burn down the building you're in.  Or just finding out our JIT food delivery systems are indeed quite fragile.

I ROFL when I hear some gansta say he's going to shoot farmer Brown with his high-cap pistol, and live high off the land.  The reality is farmer Brown will pick his ass off at 600 meters with something a little better - and that no gansta actually knows how to shoot or farm...and it's hard - you don't learn in time to avoid starvation if you wait too late to begin.

So, don't wait.  You might find if you do that no one actually wants you out here where there's still freedom and relative safety, and plenty of resources.  We have gold too - and guns, and water, and food, and in my case, high tech capabilities out the wazoo.  What again did you say you were bringing that would compel us to share those?

 

 

 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:22 | 3390511 BanjoDoug
BanjoDoug's picture

a lot of city folks think they can key their bootlegged ham radio (w/o a license) and everything will work fine.....   or think they can move onto Farmer Browns property and farm away....  in reality it takes time to acquire the skill to do both - alot of skill.    Gardening on small plots in rural regions (for feeding a family) takes a lot of time and experimentation - when to plant, what kind of bugs to deal with, how much water, when to harvest, how to preserve before you eat it.... all skill that don''t come easy,  many growing seasons are usually required before you get the hang of things on your plot of earth.   All these complications will result in death for the cocky new-comer...

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:40 | 3390550 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

Does Jonestown still exist?

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:12 | 3390620 Matt
Matt's picture

I prefer Fordlandia, myself. Less bad mojo.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 23:05 | 3390605 Abrick
Abrick's picture

Unfortunately even old timer's crops are suceptable to Agent Orange.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 04:36 | 3390925 Swarmee
Swarmee's picture

Not bad advice either, very sensible. But to play devils advocate i suggest you rethink your plan to deal with "city folk" as it sounds to me it needs work. If, as you suggest, it gets that bad and the JIT systems have broken down (agree they are fragile) then cities aren't going to just collectively kill every resident in a nice zero sum game for you. Millions of refugees WILL leave the city, and they will move outward looking for food, shelter, safety. If your plan is to simply shoot every single one who you don't think has enough skills to barter for your liking then you'd better be stocked up on lead like the DHS. In short, check any zombie movie ever. Eventually every little out of the way community will have to have a plan other than murdering everyone that comes by. Not exactly a sustainable mindset. Sounds like you are well into your SHTF planning, bravo, you're in a better position than most to work on phase II and think about how you and yours will help everyone rebuild some functional society if TPTB cash and reboot it all. This "I've got mine, the rest of you f-off" mentality is only as good as your ability to defend it all 24/7 if it gets that bad, but how long is that a reasonable approach with 100s of millions in trouble, and many of them just trying to survive and guilty of only ignorance? Will well prepared folks kill every orphaned child from the cities? How do you know who to shoot at 600 meters and who is coming into to town to trade something valuable you need, like a skilled doctor? What happens when your farm has a reputation of shoot first, ask later and a couple dozen banded 'gangstas' are camped out nearby to pick off farm hands? How will you get any work done with them wanting revenge? You don't need to live on a farm to know how to shoot a rifle, there will be someone on the outside eventually with that same skill. These are questions to think about if your survival plan is well advanced, and will require community level answers rather than solo efforts.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 05:53 | 3390969 Next to Arch Stanton
Next to Arch Stanton's picture

Been a member of ZH for more than a year now, so have had time to figure out where I'm comfortable along the "prep" spectrum.  If (or when) a version of Cyprus lands in the US, there will be dislocation.  I think it's important to have supplies, cash, PMs, etc to bridge that chaos.  Really just a question of for how long.

Going to the lengths of moving away from a city and buying farmland, weapons, etc, suggests you are not willing to participate in whatever the next version of society is.  I don't know what will happen when SHTF but I hope to make the transition to it faster than others; I am not bulletproof, but if things get to that state where armed gangs are roaming the streets, then no one can "win", including the farmers outside of the cities.  I prefer to take my chances in my own community playing some part in trying to establish a functioning town.  I'm convinced that mental prep will take me further than physical prep (unless I meet a bullet).

Reading ZH reminds me of all the intelligent people out there - very encouraging.  My wife thinks reading this site is depressing, I think it's therapeutic.  When the SHTF, what bar is everyone meeting at?

 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:04 | 3390457 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Hayek's 'The Road to Serfdom' meets [ Alan Watts - Money<------]   2+2 does equal 4.

 

Soon, you'll be able to evaluate the Quant formulation to understand future events. ;>)

 

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:08 | 3390470 sosoome
sosoome's picture

Thanks, but I like having my gold where I can see it.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 00:18 | 3390750 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

My theory is if I need to get out of Dodge, I can get my PMs out too.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:09 | 3390473 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

good idea

Don't think you need to store gold outside your country?

from the frying pan into the fire

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:10 | 3390474 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

"Gold" ... the truist form of intrinsic value, that will never try to "burden oneself or outsmart your common sense"!

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 22:17 | 3390489 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

another thing.

Author has no idea what it is - moving gold.

Did he move anything ever through borders?

I get a feeling he is clueless about the pain involved.

I did some research.

Do you think you can just put gold bar or stack of coins into your carry-on?

Good luck.

Aside from custom dues, where you gonna put it? With american passport?

Try to open an account first. 

Then get together a butt-load of paper work to prove your gold is not

for terrorism or kiss it goodbye.

SHEESH!                                                               

 

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