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Weimar vs USA: The Fall Of The Second Empire Of Debt

Tyler Durden's picture


While being distracted by the developments of this insolvent European sovereign or that, coupled with increasingly prevalent episodes of deposit confiscation, is all the rage these days, the fundamental problems summarized by these three simple words, too much debt, remain. And as has been explained over and over, while confiscation of wealth merely shuffles the various dollar (and euro) signs on the table with the spoils going to the wealthiest, there is no resolution of the underlying problems plaguing a world that has tens of trillions of excess debt.

As is by now is well-known, there are two ways out of such a conundrum: default, or inflating the debt away. What is also well-known is that as long as the US preserves legacy reserve currency status even by the tiniest of threads, inflation through debt deluge-funded money creation will always be chosen outcome. Just as was the case in Germany in the 1920s. In fact, as the following video shows, the parallels between where the US is now, and where Weimar Germany were just before everything took a turn for the parabolic, are a few too many for comfort. The only major difference so far is that in Weimar, the creation of massive rampant inflation was what economists would call, "successful."

Source: Visionvictory


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Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:13 | 3394652 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

What do you do when you want to extend a monopoly game?  You expand credit and/or allow new players into the game.  Capitalism has not failed, it has just come to its logical conclusion.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:16 | 3394659 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

If I was winning [& the other players were hot chicks], I'd suggest that 'strip Monopoly' was the only viable option & immediately begin collateralizing their garments...

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:30 | 3394700 sweaty7
sweaty7's picture

MBS=Mammary backed securities?

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:18 | 3394813 DoChenRollingBearing
Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:39 | 3394871 Passage
Mon, 04/01/2013 - 02:14 | 3395204 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Only rat is live in tunnel!

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 02:35 | 3395215 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

^I love this guy! He is to making me laugh!

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 04:08 | 3395252 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

too me!

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 07:22 | 3395358 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

"I dive 1000' in to a block of cement... on my head yet." -Bruno The Magnificient (Boris as Bear)

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 06:26 | 3395324 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Speaking of laughs ... and fitting for April 1st ...

There is the alleged $27.5 trillion in funds available to pay off the entire US national debt and cancel many taxes too ... the famous funds in the ongoing American 'conspiracy' story of 'Ambassador' Leo (a.k.a. Lee) Wanta ... trillions said to be illegally withheld because of recent American corrupt Presidents.

According to Mr Wanta - who seems to have worked in a US government capacity - the great fund was set up by US President Ronald Reagan, with revenues from clever trading and other profits as the Soviet Empire was in its final decade.

In Wanta's story, Ronald Reagan wanted the funds to be used to liberate the American people after the Soviet Empire fell, but the proper use of these monies have been blocked by Reagan's successors, every President being corrupt since the first President Bush in the early 90s. With accrued interest and earnings that fund is now claimed to be US $27.5 trillion.

What makes it a great story, is not only the reasonable idea that trillions have been stolen from American citizens, but the fairy-tale aspect that once upon a time, there was indeed a US President who really cared about the common people. It seems that the last US President well-liked enough to be able to wear that kind of mantle of popularity, whether deserved or not, was the camera-friendly movie actor Reagan.

Leo Wanta is still in America telling his story and with his tale showing up on various 'conspiracy' sites. One of the journalists who told the Wanta story was UK journalist Christopher Story, said to have been murdered, poisoned to a disease death in 2010, after visting the USA.

It is one of those stories that I think will outlive the USA. As the US empire perhaps crumbles and breaks into pieces after financial catastrophe, there will no doubt still be people who say, that America might have been all right, if only the thieving oligarchs had not stolen the $27.5 trillion of Ronald Reagan funds entrusted to the care of Ambassador Leo Wanta.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 07:55 | 3395399 negative rates
negative rates's picture

A wearhouse is empty, until proven FULL.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 04:36 | 3395264 bloostar
bloostar's picture

Wouldn't you need an ever increasing level of removed garments and girls to keep your ponzi up?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 09:11 | 3395508 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Women's underwear is like Visa Gold Card -- it's everywhere I want to be

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 07:05 | 3395341 new game
new game's picture

hey f_s, i will convert my hotels to brothels and you bring your garmentless chicks on over.

ps. i only accept gold or booze for payment...

we can negotiate the overhead and roi-i'll be fair.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:21 | 3394672 LostAtSea
LostAtSea's picture

Big government has not failed, it has just come to its logical conclusion.


Fixed it for you.


Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:36 | 3394857 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture


Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:03 | 3394937 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture
Scientist Predicts 60% Market Collapse

Wednesday, 13 Mar 2013


Chris Martenson is a world-renowned expert on identifying dangerous, yet hidden, exponential growth patterns in global economies, energy demand, and food consumption...

And he is predicting a 60% stock market collapse will strike in the next three months.

Martenson’s opinion isn’t to be taken lightly, as his research is highly regarded by the United Nations, UK Parliament, and Fortune 500 companies.
Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:17 | 3394968 zhandax
zhandax's picture

"A financial World War III"

Jim Willie's thinking on Cypress from last Tuesday:

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 00:39 | 3395118 q99x2
q99x2's picture

If the stock market is not attached to the same forces it was in the first two tops then it may not react in any predictable way. Since there is no reliable way to judge value I think things could just F'n collapse.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 04:33 | 3395261 The Heart
The Heart's picture

"And he is predicting a 60% stock market collapse will strike in the next three months."

It's all going by the book.:

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 07:09 | 3395344 new game
new game's picture

money = bullets until bullets are fired...

just observing...

now sayin.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 07:55 | 3395401 unrulian
unrulian's picture

in this environment if the mkt collapses by 60% what will stop it there?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:24 | 3395944 moneybots
moneybots's picture

Didn't we just get a Dow Theory buy signal?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 01:40 | 3394976 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Big governments CONTROLLED BY BIGGER BANKSTERS, is coming to its logical conclusion.

To fix it for you, LostAtSea, please note that the powers of government have already been 99% PRIVATIZED! THAT was due to the prolonged triumph of the methods of organized crime being able to take control of the political processes, while turning the surviving politicians into puppets, and the citizens into muppets.

Do NOT blame the "government," nor "capitalism," nor any other "ism" for what is ACTUALLY the result of the methods of organized crime taking over control of the whole process!

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:56 | 3395057 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture

I love it when people say "capitalism has failed us." I generally come back with, "No, YOU failed at capitalism. And next you'll fail at fascism."

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:53 | 3394755 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You are off by about a hundred years there buddy.  Haven't had Capitalism in the US since 1913.  How can you have Capitalism when a quasi-governmental authority controls credit rates and thus capital?  That's like saying that a parched landscape is water's logical conclusion.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:07 | 3394793 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

So was that before or after Congressmen and Senators were bought off by the heads of huge businesses like Rockefeller, Morgan, Carnegie, and all the railroad, timber, land, mining, textile, cotton and shipping barons?

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:20 | 3394816 tmosley
tmosley's picture

When a cleaning lady pumps the contents of her septic system into your living room, is it still cleaning?

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:30 | 3394844 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

That's almost as funny as your original comment was intellectually dishonest.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:48 | 3394897 noless
noless's picture

What happened to standard oil?

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:03 | 3394920 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Broken up in 1911 under the Sherman anti-trust act into 30+ smaller companies (making Rockefeller richer than his wild dreams in the process since the shares of most of those companies quickly doubled and tripled- yeah, he made a fortune BECAUSE of the break-up). 

Of the 30 companies you might recognize a few of them today, including the two largest......  Standard Oil of New Jersey became what we know today as Exxon.  Standard Oil of New York became what we know today as Mobil.  Chevron came out of that, too, I think, but don't quote me on it.

Any particular reason you ask?


Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:30 | 3395006 noless
noless's picture

It is relevant to the above argument, were the anti trust proceedings themselves initiated by those who held near monopolies?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 05:22 | 3395290 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Not just the breakup (creation of multiple companies), but the premium P/E ratio that is routinely applied to publicly traded equity over privately traded equity.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 09:34 | 3395587 tmosley
tmosley's picture

How is it dishonest?  Just because some people behave badly doesn't make good behavior bad.  Those people who founded the Federal Reserve should have been ashamed, and the politicians they bought off to pass that treason should have been hung.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 07:58 | 3395404 unrulian
unrulian's picture

when solar panels and batteries are made in that greeen?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 09:17 | 3395531 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

only if you dispose of them there was well once they're discharged.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:45 | 3394889 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

That's corporatism (fascism) though, not capitalism. You prevent it by having a strong constitution, defended by intelligent voters. Unfortunately the US lacks both.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 00:12 | 3395076 Dull Care
Dull Care's picture

One could argue that this is Democracy reaching its logical conclusion.

A system of democracy obviously will not permit free markets to perspire for obvious reasons.

Once the sheep realize they can vote to steal property then the descent is guarenteed even if it's gradual in nature.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 01:24 | 3395172 Just Ice
Just Ice's picture

hmm, a fascist democracy has taken over what was to have been a constitutional republic...sounds about right

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 05:38 | 3395295 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Polk was elected President on a platform of explicitely "acquiring" more land from Mexico in 1845 (because Texas wasn't big enough). Que the Mexican-American War in 1846...  Shit's been going on for a while...

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 09:26 | 3395555 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

And I think you mean 'cue'...if only to avoid transliteral difficulties.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 09:42 | 3395602 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

je ne peux pas taper dans toutes langues

but it helps to confuse the damn ferners (and googlers)...

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:02 | 3394934 graspAU
graspAU's picture

“The real menace of our Republic is the invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy legs over our cities, states and nation. At the head is a small group of banking houses... This little our government for their own selfish ends. It operates under cover of a self-created screen...seizes...our executive officers...legislative bodies...schools...courts...newspapers and every agency created for the public protection.”
-John Hylan, N.Y. Mayor,

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:04 | 3394787 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Have to disagree there Alco. We all know that it is .gov that is failing us even more...  Barron's this weekend breaks a story (not seen here at ZH AFAIK) re a sleazy Russian (Vassili Oxenuk) peddling dodgy investments along with Las Vagas, Guns, Money, Reverse Mergers, Offshore Hideaways and more!  Also, the usual Barron's stocks and bonds discussions:

"Review of Barron's -- Dated 1 April 2013"

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 01:35 | 3395181 dunce
dunce's picture

Assigning a large part of the blame to any one thing has the effect of granting a pass to  many guilty accomplices, though you can not throw a stone in DC without hitting a guilty party.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:13 | 3394961 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

This person who posts under the name Alcoholic Nativ appears to live down to their name. That person appears to be so deliberately ignorant that I find it more plausible to believe they are some kind of "troll" who is doing that on purpose?

There has not been anything remotely like "capitalism" nor "free markets" since the Federal Reserve Board took control! There has only been a runaway fascist plutocracy, accelerating at an exponential rate! It is a gross understatement to note that "everything took a turn for the parabolic!" The fascist plutocracy that has taken control of the USA is literally trillions of times worse than what took control over Germany. Furthermore, there is nobody outside of that globalized fascist plutocracy system that can stop it now, nor apparently going to appear in any time in the foreseeable future, without some series of political miracles.

The history of insane wars has seen the total number of deaths, (and the related deaths from disease, and collateral damage, which tend to become more than an order of magnitude bigger than the directly caused military or police state murders) DOUBLING. Therefore, the decline and fall of the current systems is probably going to see hundreds of millions of people directly killed by genocidal wars, along with democidal martial law, along with billions of people indirectly killed by all the related distruptions and chaos, causing famines and plagues. The runawy poverty, crime and disease situations will probably keep on their exponential growth curves ... manifesting as unprecedented famines, wars, and plagues.

Furthermore, the only sufficient political miracles which could mitigate that MUST be based upon radical paradigm shifts in militarism, in order to operate radically different death control systems. Nothing else is sufficient to cope with the full meaning of THE FALL OF THE SECOND EMPIRE OF DEBT.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 00:15 | 3395079 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

+1000 Excellent!

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 00:53 | 3395140 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Yes, Capitalism just hasen't been implemented correctelty yet.  You and your ilk are retarded beyond my comprehemption.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 01:57 | 3395191 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

I cannot resist regarding you as a cute troll, Alcoholic Nativ...

To reply to someone who posts under the name Radical Marijuana with the word comprehemption is a great a typographical error!

The PROBLEM with fiat money, made out of nothing, as a debt, it that that DESTROYS the foundation of capitalism, as the accumulation of capital, as the profit from production. Instead, those who can make the fiat money preemptively take control of the market, and thereby systematically undermine capitalism.

Privatized fiat money is the result of the triumph of organized crime taking control over government, in order to legalize counterfeiting, as the privilege of a relatively small group of private banks. The biggest of those banks have ended up owning more than half of the American economy, and are able to gamble with money made out of nothing on an astronomically sized scale measured in hundred of trillions of dollars, which barely makes any rational sense, since all the production combined does not come close to that order of magnitude!

I have nothing against the sublime theories of free markets, nor capitalism. However, the REALITY is runaway fascist plutocracy, which is what results after one adds fraud and murder to capitalism. That is, the REAL world is operated through the application of the principles of organized crime, whereby the best organized criminals, the biggest gangsters, are the the banksters, which have taken control over the government, mostly be taking control of the funding of the political processes, (especially including paying to have some politicians discredited or destroyed.) The established systems are NOT capitalist free markets, but rather what happens after those things are undermined and destroyed by the triumph of fraud and murder actually controlling what happens.

Despite having spent decades learning about those social facts, I presume you are going to continue to believe that I can not possibly know what I am talking about, and that I must be too retarded to be able to understand politics. I doubt that anything I could possibly say would change your mind, however, IF you want to take the easy way to understand some of what I am talking about, then take the time to watch some of these free videos about the monetary system, almost all of which have been featured on Zero Hedge before:

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:03 | 3395658 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

In all of your years of studying and learning history, what was the inevitable conclusion to every capitalist society?  Something that most people seem to forget is that the word we use to describe our economic system is purely a present identification...  a pinpoint in time...  something that is fleeting at best and necessarily changes, dramatically, over relatively short periods of time.  I have never seen, not once, anyone articulate the stasis mechanism for keeping the "free market" behaving in a manner so as to effectuate all of its academically proposed benefits.

The truth is that the law of the jungle reigns supreme over mankind...  it never sleeps...  it's unrelenting...  the only thing that is able to give us the slightest bit of comfort is that it changes its form a couple times during each of our lives.  However, we remain steadfast subjects.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 02:01 | 3395193 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

Your comprehension is however, very limited...

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 07:01 | 3395336 dwayne elizando
dwayne elizando's picture

Was your great grandmother by any chance a cherokee princess?

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:36 | 3395018 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

@Alcoholic Native, I respectfully disagree that this is Capitalism playing itself out. Capitalism was destroyed when the banks were not allowed to fail, and GM was not allowed to fail, and businesses were not allowed to take their natural courses without Big Government Socialism jumping in to "course correct".

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:42 | 3395021 prains
prains's picture

How anyone can make a 6 minute video about inflation and NOT ONCE mention a single OLIGARCH as either starting, running or profiting from said inflation means that the video has missed the point. Until people wake up to the reason WHY HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF in that these things are ALL manufactured by people (these are not randomn molecular events outside the physical boundaries of prevention) for profit and power then I guess we keep making videos that looks to symptoms and not the causes.

There was a bright guy who once thought "hey maybe if we wash the shit off our hands before we eat we might not get so sick"


So instead of making videos complaining about how sick we all are getting, why doesn't somebody think up a way to wash our hands instead.


yes i know they're pimping their book

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 01:44 | 3395185 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Capitalism has not failed, it has just come to its logical conclusion.


What is this capitalism you speak of?  I think you're confused.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 07:53 | 3395394 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

That is not capitalism or how Monopoly is played.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 08:17 | 3395421 orez65
orez65's picture

Capitalism has NOTHING to do with fiat money fraud.

There is nothing capitalistic about counterfeiting money.

It is plain and simple theft, not a logical conclusion of anything.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 08:22 | 3395430 Rusty Trombone
Rusty Trombone's picture


DO collect 200 dollars

DO NOT go directly to jail

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:12 | 3394656 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

No Worries, Maria from CNBS says that our economy is only going through just another one of those soft patches... AHHH, back to looking for that elusive "Golden Egg" and back to that Hopium and euphoric Banker Blisss......

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:27 | 3394690 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Just a 'bump in the road' .....other then that, Green Soots all around:


Australia Posts Worst Back-to-Back Job Growth Since ’97: Economy


Australia’s unemployment rate rose as the nation posted its worst back-to-back years of job growth since the 1997 Asian financial crisis, throwing up an obstacle in Prime Minister Julia Gillard’s re-election bid this year.

Payrolls advanced 148,300 last year after a 49,800 gain in 2011 for a two-year increase that was the weakest since 1996-1997, government data compiled by Bloomberg show. Unemployment rose to 5.4 percent last month as the number of workers fell by 5,500 and may keep climbing after the economy slowed in the second half of 2012.


Sky News reports March numbers expected to be as bad or worse.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:59 | 3394931 awakening
awakening's picture

Without clicking through to see the full numbers and how they were calculated I'll vouch for the general story being presented that employment is certainly a problem down here.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:39 | 3395024 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

Gillard is a good Socialist buddy of the Obama regime. Obama's people will be dispatched to fix that election to save her sorry, lying ass and keep her in power. The Australians should have thrown her out as soon as she reneged on that asinine carbon tax idiocy.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:12 | 3394657 stinkhammer
stinkhammer's picture

end it; end the fed

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:25 | 3394828 Leto II
Leto II's picture

End the State

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:15 | 3394661 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

JPM Whale, meet your and article..
Angela Merkel fails to escape eurozone crisis on Italian holiday
German Chancellor Angela Merkel may have donned her bathing costume for a little relaxation on the Italian island of Ischia, but she has failed to escape the heat of the current eurozone crisis.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:16 | 3394805 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Sometimes I wonder if Merkel could survive mid level management at any generic large size US Corporation. Does evil-smarts really get you that far up the chain? Or is a different kind of down-and-dirty-street-smarts required.



Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:27 | 3394996 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Obviously, CrazyCooter, the answer is the latter. The ONLY way to be a surviving, successful, politician under the current system is to be a puppet for the banksters, whose primary job is to act as the professional liar, and immaculate hypocrite, necessary to fool enough of the people enough of the time.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:15 | 3394664 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

The Weimar mark at the height of its inflated worth - was worth more as a heating fuel, rather then currency. To buy wood or coal would have cost more (in weight) in marks, then what you would get in wood or coal!

There are old photos of people using bundles of marks to feed the furnace. Only bad thing now is, it will be very diffacult to  burn digits in a data base!

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:03 | 3394781 edifice
edifice's picture

FRNs don't burn well, either...

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:06 | 3394941 graspAU
graspAU's picture

The ink is full of heavy metals and the trashed currency has to be disposed of in fda approved bedrock landfills or given to tourist of the fed banks in little plastic bags to take home.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:22 | 3394674 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Vietnam war cost $732 billion in 2011 dollars but caused US to go off the gold standard on August 15, 1971.


Iraq, Afghan wars will cost to $4 trillion to $6 trillion

By Ernesto Londoño,March 28, 2013

The U.S. wars in Afghanistan and Iraq will cost taxpayers $4 trillion to $6 trillion, taking into account the medical care of wounded veterans and expensive repairs to a force depleted by more than a decade of fighting, according to a new study by a Harvard researcher.

Washington increased military benefits in late 2001 as the nation went to war, seeking to quickly bolster its talent pool and expand its ranks. Those decisions and the protracted nation-building efforts launched in both countries will generate expenses for years to come, Linda J. Bilmes, a public policy professor, wrote in the report that was released Thursday.


Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:29 | 3394701 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture


Food rising;

Energy rising;

Health Insurance soaring;

House prices falling;

Retail (clothing) falling;

Wages stagnant.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:22 | 3394821 FireBrander
FireBrander's picture

locally. home prices are up 7%

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 07:53 | 3395396 northerngirl
northerngirl's picture

All I'm seeing in my neighborhood is more foreclosures.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 09:58 | 3395645 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

It is pretty spotty so hard to figure. I know a guy who got 10 offers in a couple days while in other neighborhoods, short sales/foreclosures galore. Housing seems pretty well a mess right now. It matches the rest of the country.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:33 | 3394848 Boston
Boston's picture

House prices falling


Nope. Per Case-Shiller, starting about a year ago, even house prices have been rising, nationally.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:57 | 3394924 Handful of Dust
Mon, 04/01/2013 - 07:43 | 3395382 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

It doesn't matter what charts show it matters what the talking schmucks at Doomborg and CNBS tell the zombie momos.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:24 | 3395705 orez65
orez65's picture

... and food prices rising.

But, but ... Bernanke says there is no inflation!!

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:43 | 3394729 CH1
CH1's picture

This is a tyranny. What did you expect?

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:33 | 3394706 ekm
ekm's picture

Pay attention again to the last seconds of the film.

It's the military that makes sure there's demand for USD.


Imagine there wouldn't be a mighty US military.

Why would anybody accept USD for real goods, hence reserve currency?

MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX has ruled, rules and will always rule. Bankers are secondary.

Eisehower for everybody:


Those guys are a little bit slow, you know, finance is confusing, but when they get pissed, they are the ones that say: STOP

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:46 | 3394737 ekm
ekm's picture

Read here to find who rules


Electronic money has made bankers vulnerable. Anybody can create money now, even bitcoin.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:57 | 3394751 newworldorder
newworldorder's picture


Past presedents on inflation and comparisons with Weimar are appropriate. HOWEVER ... Many things have changes since prior to WW 2.

-  You have an interlinked network of Central Banks with BIS, IMF and FED in the middle providing ulimited liquidity to all that need it.

-  The US military providing trade and monetary systems protection to all that needed.

-  The worldwide finacial system is so linked that any failure will be catastrophic. Therefore no failure will be allowed or tolerated.

We on this board bring logic, knowledge and dreams of justice. The politicians and banksters do not care however for anything other than their total control. Things will proceed as they are untill they stop.  Financial prudence has nothing to do with it.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:58 | 3394774 ekm
ekm's picture

There is no set definition of inflation, deflation and the story of weimar is not told properly.

There is not set definition of money either in discussions.


Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:07 | 3394947 graspAU
graspAU's picture

I thought the story, "When Money Dies"", did a nice job, no?

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:18 | 3394970 ekm
ekm's picture

I haven't read it, but even if I read it, what would matter is if everybody read it and spoke off the same definitions.


However, taking a guess, it's the same as I explain "reserves" that Benny is printing.

I call reserves: Money nobody wants to use, it's a money cemetery.



Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:15 | 3394806 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Things are different this time, they are worse. You are correct that they can keep this ponzi afloat longer due to unlimited money printing with no alternative currency to fall back on. But the thing that gives this power is also their weakness. The speed of information makes them vunerable to things that would have never been thought of a hundred years ago. And while most countries of the world are equally broke, there is still the desire to win, especially those countries like China, that never forget.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 05:47 | 3395299 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The US can keep things going longer than the mad printer of Weimar, because the US doesn't have to pay its debt in gold. 

While the video may talk about Germany abandoning the gold standard prior to WWI, a gold standard was "reintroduced" for them (at least in terms of their external debt), in the Treaty of Versailles...

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:04 | 3395660 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Yeap. That is why it blew up so fast. Same thing with the greenback if I remember correctly. Gold itself is the alternative today. The blow up today is a matter of psychology. The internet's light speed horizontal evolution is a pile of dynamite and sparks are flying everywhere.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:28 | 3395715 orez65
orez65's picture

"... providing ulimited liquidity ..."

NO, providing unlimited counterfeited money.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:34 | 3395015 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

"MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX has ruled, rules and will always rule. Bankers are secondary."

Paradoxically, the accountants have taken over control of the best organized crime gangs. Those who pay for the murders have ended up controlling the murder system. Obviously, in the combined money/murder system, the murders are more important, in the end, than the money, since the money is backed by murder. However, the control of the system as whole is now done more through the accountants that pay for the murders, than by the murderers themselves. The hit men tend to take orders from the people who pay them, rather than the other way around, although some enterprising mercenaries occasionally reverse that process. However, when those mercenaries transform in that way, then, in the modern world they have become accountants.

What is even more crazy that that is the degree to which the accountants are now controlled themselves by the numbers generated by their computers! Thus, the overall global systema of electronic fiat money frauds, backed by atomic bombs, et alia, have become inhuman. I doubt that there are any human beings left who actually understand or control what is happening anymore!

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:43 | 3395028 ekm
ekm's picture

There comes a point when the employers (military industrial complex) is quite suspicious of the accountants (banks).

That point is now.


Excellent "accountant" metaphor. I will use it from now on. Credit is to you.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 02:01 | 3395194 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Yeah, I agree ekm, that trust is breaking down across the board, including between the military industrial complex and the banks.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 07:47 | 3395384 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

It's ok you just have PTSD and we have pills, padded cells and public ridicule to cure you of that.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:36 | 3395744 orez65
orez65's picture

I see it as three centers of power:

1. The military

2. The bankers

3. The Government.

The military has the muscle but the National Secuirty Agency is the Government's enforcer for the generals. If that link gets compromised the military moves.

The bankers have the money and the Government needs the spending to satisfy today's voters with their entitlement mentality.

Something is going to give, the present economic situation is unsustainable.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:06 | 3395665 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

That is some far out stuff man. The FRNs are backed by murder. Once the murderers realize this, they off the accountants and take their place. This cycle rolled through Rome until she collapsed.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 07:57 | 3395403 negative rates
negative rates's picture

That's a sure sign that we are fucked.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:25 | 3395697 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

Militaries(and intelligence agencies) are the hired hands(muscle, goon squads, etc.) of the banksters...

USMC Ret. Major-General Smedley Butler told us that back in 1933.


but when they get pissed, they are the ones that say: STOP


fixed: When the top echelon of the International  banksters get pissed(that's angry not drunk, for those in the UK) they give the militaries their marching orders about who to STOP.

Today it's the USD, once upon a time it was the British Pound(or Spanish Dollar, Dutch Guilder, etc.), tomorrow it will be something else...what form of global reserve currency takes shape in the future makes no difference to the top banksters. Same with the nationalities of said it's the US military playing top global goon squad/bankster muscle, who that will be tomorrow remains to be seen.

The key is the control of the global debts created by all these machinations. Guess what, that ain't the militaries' bailiwick.

You've maybe heard that the TPTB give clues as to what they're up to by using popular media(the movie industry in this case):


"You control the debt, you control everything."

From the movie The International

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:31 | 3394708 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

Lots of mention of the US Dollar, but not much of the Euro, Yen, GBP or CDN.

All of the above are in decline, most notably the Euro - see below.  This is why the US Dollar has continued to climb, not fall.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:32 | 3394713 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

CBs are shorting Gold, to prop up dollar

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:07 | 3394792 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

When the bulk of a nation's reserves are held in dollars, euros, yen etc is it any wonder that the central banks are fighting gold? To do otherwise would render their reserves worthless.

The unseen paradox of course is that they are all secretly or openly accumulating gold but at prices that do not reflect the ongoing demise of the system.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:23 | 3394826 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Multiple boats, sinking at sea. Passengers leap from those sinking the fastest to those setting the highest out of the water. But they are all still sinking. While those below decks know we are going down, those on deck are feeling pretty good about their circumstances as having been recognized as "winning". This still all ends badly as no one is bailing or patching the hole. I suppose you could make a buck buying up life vests and then selling them back as the waterline rises, but in the end the best choice might be reviewing that swimming lesson DVD you picked up at the gift shop.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 01:34 | 3395180 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

Lots of mention of the US Dollar, but not much of the Euro, Yen, GBP or CDN.


Also no mention of this with a a base money supply of only 3 trillion-

Maybe someone can explain how that can be paid-

Looks to me like the credit supply is much more of a concern than the currency supply?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 07:39 | 3395377 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Dollar strength, combined with issues like higher postal rates (esp international rates), higher internet sales taxes, higher health care costs wiht the new plan, etc are guaranteeing a serious drag on the usa economy. 

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:38 | 3394724 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

I thought the old lady in the wheelchair getting pushed off the cliff was sort a non sequitur.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:46 | 3394736 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture

OK, rookie Millennial question here. Please help me understand and correct my wrong shit.

Why would the FED not throw .gov under the bus? And just stop printing moar, and raise interest rates?

If I were a conniving fuck at the FED, I'd realize I could cut the .gov off and dissolve the US into smaller countries while retaining a presence in each fragment, as evidenced by the geographical placement of FED districts.

Add to that the potential sub-cultural infighting and destruction that could be financed, why MUST this end in hyperflation? Especially when one could crash asset prices by the means I've already described, and then print a pittance to buy it all?

What am I missing? I don't get it. Somebody please point this kid toward the light.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:54 | 3394753 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

banker and billionaire balance sheets would crater

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:05 | 3394789 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture

Thank you for the reply, but I suspect they'd naturally move out of USD and whatever else beforehand, just like Cyprus insiders did.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:30 | 3394843 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

ZH linked this a long time ago. The first 1/3rd of the book or so is narrative and tells quite a tell. All you need to know, from a story telling point of view, about Weirmar. Also included in that is the inflation mess the US had during the 60s/70s.

The book was Jens Parssons "Dying of Money" which is out of print and difficult to get an original copy.

Regarding your point about the Fed jacking rates, it is quite a real possibility. The tell is when the big money gets out of dodge as it were. Insiders know the outcome.

As a little guy, I voted with my feet, moved to a small town away from all the excitement, keep a stock of food, some guns/ammo, and try to make nice with neighbors. I ain't making any money on this ride. If I get to the other side intact, that is a win for me. I expect to take a beating, but make it. Many won't.




Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:43 | 3394883 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture

CC, thank you. That is a huge read, but I will read it. I've saved the whole document.

In Weimar, they flooded Germany with currency and hyperinflation ensued. The FED knows this. In our globalized economy, US can export its inflation to a point, but I still think there comes a time where the FED tells .gov "you're too drunk, we're cutting you off" and then a controlled demolition ensues, just after the smart money gets out.

I've watched enough other Millennials flood the big cities en masse to know that I don't want to compete with all of them for employment. So I've also settled into a small town near IL/KY border and plan to ride it out here. I'm in your exact same boat, brother.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:54 | 3394754 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

1C3 there is actually a decent chance in my mind that is exactly what they will do. Except the .gov will be fine with it. Yes it will blowtorch the bond market and spark a currency crisis, but it gives great cover for the spending cuts (the real spending cuts) that will have to happen.

Most people on here will argue that it is easier for the fed to keep printing money and artifically suppress rates.

The point is, as Tyler stated....there are two choices now. Hyperinflation or hard default. As Kyle Bass said, they are not mutually exclusive and usually one leads to the other. Don't go too crazy trying to figure out that piece of the puzzle. In either event you end up with a bond crisis and toilet paper currency.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:13 | 3394777 ekm
ekm's picture

The movie explains weimar ok but not very well.


The root of the problem was that since too much money was produced way and above consumption, that that money started looking for collateral.

Granaries, stores anything real. The supply chains from the raw material to the retail store broke down because raw materials were not being send down the production lines because the owners were using those as collateral to excessive money.


That's what is happening right now, but in slow motion.

Due to excessively excessive amount of base money Fed is allowed to print, the world is slowly refusing to supply USA with goods in exchange for dollars.


The western world is a slow motion weimar. That's why it's not felt like in Germany. At the time it was only for Germany, not it's for all western world, 800 million people.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:20 | 3394815 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

i'm not sure why someone junked that comment but I hope they speak up. That was a great summary.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:30 | 3394839 ekm
ekm's picture

If you read Bastiat, he says that Inflation = Shortage of Finished Goods.

People talk inflation referring to money, but it's wrong. We should refer to inflation in terms of shortage of goods.


The number on a dollar bill means nothing. What matters is what it can buy.


People say there's no inflation and they say there's no y/y inflation. It's all about the point of reference.

If you referenced year 2000, grain, corn and crude have gone higher by 4x,5x, 6x etc.


But, people say, computers are lower, cars are lower, washing machines are lower. The answer is: As long as a chinese will accept to be enslaved, china and korea will sell at a loss.


But, what happens if china's population uprises? We in the west will experience shortages because we are making nothing.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:10 | 3394954 graspAU
graspAU's picture

Shortage of goods? Yes! That's the great thing about the WWI treaty, force reparations in gold. Allies keep the gold, have Germany send them gold marks, which they send back to Germanny for nice finished goods.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 02:03 | 3395197 Just Ice
Just Ice's picture

I did not junk it but I would wholeheartedly take exception with the following statement in the post, "the world is slowly refusing to supply USA with goods in exchange for dollars."

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 21:55 | 3394762 ekm
ekm's picture

The Fed can't throw gov under the bus because the gov has guns and the Fed doesn't.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:14 | 3394802 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture

ekm, I know you've been saying MIC and the banksters are in a dogfight right now, but let me play devil's advocate for a moment. (I'm not your junker, btw.)

The hired guns fire for those who pay them. In a tightly-controlled demolition of .gov, and the subsequent emergence of "regional" .govs that align with FED districts, I don't think the hired guns turn on the banksters.

The leverage the banksters have is the closing of the easy money spigot, which is what is propping up MIC right now. If there is no .gov money to finance operations at Boeing et al, their potential firepower over time hits a brick wall. Since a good chunk of the violence industry depends on .gov funds, they'll run out of capacity for violence sooner than later. Yes?

I suspect the banksters would put themselves out of reach until such time.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:22 | 3394820 ekm
ekm's picture

I love debating. If you make me change my mind I respect you all the more. I am simply looking at the reality I see.


It was a time like Lincoln times, that gold/silver was concentrated in few hands. Those guys refused to loan the gold to Lincoln hence he created the dollar.


Nowadays money is electrons, it can be created just by typing on a keyboard. Banks have no longer gold to blackmail with (no wonder JPM has the gold deep underground).

The gov charters the banks to create money. The gov can easily remove that permission.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:56 | 3394918 spinone
spinone's picture

Banks and corporations own the gov through political contributions.  The can print money at will throught the fractional reserve and shadow banking system, so their resources are unlimited.  The gove won't take away the Fed's charter.

Banks are getting all the newly created Fed money, but not loaning it into the ecomony since no one has collateral.  Wages aren't going up since the economy is flatlined.  So, the new money goes to banks, who speculate with it, driving up the stock market and commodities.

Banks and corporatiosn have tons of money on the sidelines, but have excess capacity and few productive uses for it in this country so they aren't putting it to use.  Also, if the gov started a public works program and put people to work building infrastructure the economy would improve and there would be no more reason to giv ethe banks and corporatiosn free money, so that won't happen. 

I think we're looking at the new status quo, until something breaks on the international scene.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:03 | 3394936 ekm
ekm's picture

I agree with you. We are almost on the same lines.


I do not agree though with "banks and corporations" term.

Elite groups are NOT buddy-buddies. There is intense elite infighting for domination of different parts of the economy.


It is slowly becoming clearer to me that that's why 2008 happened and is about to happen again, Competition for Domination amongst elite.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:09 | 3394948 spinone
spinone's picture

Just remember Hanlon' Razor:  Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:20 | 3394963 ekm
ekm's picture

No doubt.

If one says A is better then B, the other one says, hmmm no, B is worse than A.


There's quite of difference there.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:22 | 3394991 FoeHammer
FoeHammer's picture

Mr. Rickards would certainly agree with you. Does the MIC seize power?

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:33 | 3395013 ekm
ekm's picture

MIC always has had the power since after WW2.

Not sure who's fighting agains who yet, but bankers seem secondary to me or at least resisting.


It's more like, you know, if you do this then everything will collapse, but the real powerful interests seem to not be buying it any longer. Finance has always been complicated and confusing to industry guys and military.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:51 | 3395050 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture

Gonna continue to badger you here, ekm.

The smart money gets outta Dodge, and the FED says there is no more money coming. How does MIC then threaten the banksters? There's nothing left there to take. Does MIC have the capacity to implement its own medium of exchange?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 00:08 | 3395064 ekm
ekm's picture

Charter another bank or many other banks that can create money.

It is that simple.


Right now, people have been robbed. This is smart money against smart money war. Look at cyprus. They are robbing each other now.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 08:07 | 3395414 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."

Mayer Amschel Rothschild


That is what I understand is going on and has been since the dawn of man.  Smart people run the con and are wealthy off the backs of dumb people who do what dumb people do.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 00:09 | 3395063 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

i junked him/her

(I'm not your junker, btw.)

ekm is confused.  at previous posts, he/she claims that the military "feeds" the banks. i.e. the military pays the banks; or that the prosperity  of the banks depends on the military to the point that the military controls the banks.  i simply could not understand s/his argument. then s/he said above

The Fed can't throw gov under the bus because the gov has guns and the Fed doesn't.

which establishes who controls the military.  whoever pays the military controls the military.  the banks pay the gov't which then pays the military.  if the gov't or banks stop funding the military and/or mic, i.e. supply of ammunition, guns, etc. it all ends. s/he doesnt understand that.  the military wont bite the hand that feeds it. and coup or mutiny is out of question.  and ekm's theory, or what he "sees' is a military coup d'etat in making.  i think s/he is trying to force match eastern europe events on current developments.


Mon, 04/01/2013 - 00:12 | 3395071 ekm
ekm's picture

Printing electrons is no longer "funding". Anybody can print electrons.


I like your challenges, btw.



Mon, 04/01/2013 - 00:39 | 3395115 Orly
Orly's picture

We may be missing another point which is a distinction I believe most people overlook.

When one thinks of "government" and who controls whom, it is important to realise that there is an actual "leadership" side of government and the "functional" side of government.

The leadership side constists of a very few, well-connected- call them "families." for lack of a better word- that call the shots internationally for the giant macro picture.  They include steel magnates, newspapermen, etc.

The functional side, including the Senate and the president, all do the bidding of the leadership side by passing the laws that need to be passed, all the while carrying on a charade in public.  (I suppose it would take a special kind of person to want to do that job...)  Please don't confuse what you see in Washington, D.C. for government.  It is nothing of the sort.

It is a circus that is played and manipulated for entertainment of the masses to further the divide and conquer manifesto.  The functional government is paid and junketed by the hands of the real government, so the symbiosis becomes clear.

The greatest and simplest evidence of what I mean is to observe the transmutation of government into Goldman-Sachs and vice versa over the last thirty years.


Mon, 04/01/2013 - 01:00 | 3395152 Orly
Orly's picture

What I mean to say is, these controllers need not be such a firm and defined entity as one may assume.  That's why ekm's point is valid here.

Think of General Electric.  You think of them as a toaster manufacturer or from the plane engine commerical on TV, whereas as I may see them as a maker of MRI machines.  GE is basically a conglomerate of companies that huddle together under the same business models, even though those businesses have little in common side by side.

The PTB, the controllers. are also well-conglomerated; into real estate, IT, infrastructure, etc., etc., and they can wield their power on many fronts simultaneously to the utmost effect.

Thinking there are "teams" with uniforms out there competing against each other (Big Banks v. Military...) is not an accurate assessment of these guys.


Mon, 04/01/2013 - 01:16 | 3395161 ekm
ekm's picture

And all these big companies have their own banks also.

Car companies have their own banks. Caterpillar has its own bank


It's quite simple for big business to create a bank. All you need is a permission and few computers. Capital is their own product, real collateral.


I'm starting to even think that bankers for the sake of banking are becoming so irrelevant that they are trying everything to remain relevant, like derivatives.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 01:21 | 3395170 Orly
Orly's picture

Wal-Mart.  Perfect example.  They were going to...but I think they got shot down...put a WallyWorld Bank branch in every store.  That way, you could cash your check and do your Friday night shopping all in the same place.

They have their own pharmacies...I mean, the tentacles of the giant corporations is truly amazing.  There's no reason to believe that giant companies you've never even heard of aren't equally tentacular.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 01:32 | 3395178 ekm
ekm's picture

Excellent tip. Thx a lot.

Read this. Clear friction between bankers and wal mart.


Mon, 04/01/2013 - 01:44 | 3395184 ekm
ekm's picture

Ah, that was a big, big tip you gave me.

Fantastic. Read the article very carefully. Bankers don't like it.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 02:20 | 3395208 Orly
Orly's picture

Of course, they hate it.  Who could blame them?  When their monopoly over the control of credit-creation is being cut out from under them, I can see why they are upset.

But it got me to thinking that this is exactly what we need to cut through this mess.  Suppose Wal-Mart and other giant companies were able to become full-fledged money-lenders, just like JPM, then it plays to our advantage.

If Home Depot were able to write mortgages (and, if you think about it, it makes sense that they would...), and were able to offer rates to consumers not necessarily based on 10-year paper, like JPM and Wells, but, say from the sale of stock as if it were just another business expense, then that would break the stranglehold those two banks have on writing mortgages in America.

If we broke their stranglehold and were able to demonstrate that these entities are not too big to fail because I can get a car loan from AutoNation, then the Fed would have no choice but to let them fail. They have out-lived their usefullness and should fall by the wayside.

If you think about it as it plays out, the concentration of wealth would diminish greatly, as people sought financing through thousand of available markets, as opposed to just three or four.

Unfortunately, the article clearly shows that they will do whatever they can to preserve the status quo.  What we need is a white knight to come in and bridge the gap between the populace and decent money practices.  I would have not thought that it would be Coca-Cola and McDonald's.

But why not?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 08:30 | 3395425 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

The Fed doesn't backstop HomeDepot and thus the taxpayers wouldn't backstop HomeDepot so those corps. would be assuming all default risk on mortgages (since HD was your example). 

Conversely if they did backstop every corp. that suddenly decided they could enter the debt creation game then everyone would become a "bank" and would ever pay debts to anyone again when they could just make a new corp to create new credit to pay the old debt to exponentially explosive infinity? 

Sorry those are two thoughts in one...nobody would want to pay anyone again because 1) everyone is backstopped and 2) there would always be a way to get credit.  Those that do pay their debts would be paying in new credit from new entities created just to absorb old debt and lend new credit.

In short it seems that structure would foster it's own immediate collapse.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 00:42 | 3395123 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

ekm, you know where it gets tiring?  from your comment above:

I love debating. If you make me change my mind I respect you all the more.

you float some fucked up idea of yours, like "there are naked blue midgets running around on mars", many here try to politely tell you it is not so, and your retort is to put the burden of proof on everybody else.  challenging everybody to make you change your own mind so we can earn your respect, while you're all over the place unable to explain your own statements of fact, such as "the military feeds the banks" from the other day.  you provide no evidence, other than two irrelevant links, to support your thesis, yet you argue a figment of your deluded imagination as if it were a fact.  i think you're really confused.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 00:58 | 3395145 ekm
ekm's picture

Nobody is forcing you to read what I'm writing.

Please ignore me or teach me something.


We are all confused that's why we're on ZH to try to figure it out by teaching one another.

If you had figured it out, you wouldn't be here.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 02:17 | 3398479 bait_n_switch
bait_n_switch's picture

The government truly owns EVERYTHING by investment, but through walls of well masked corporate veils created over the decades, that fact's been hidden in plain sight.

It's all in the Comp Ann Fin Report (C.A.F.R.) As of 2007 the total "Local" Government entities plus Federal are standing at 184,000, and they all must produce a C.A.F.R. (state; city; county; school district; gov pension, etc.)

The "GROSS" INCOME of government is now 1/3rd "TAX" income and 2/3rds NON-TAX income derived from: return on INVESTMENTS and money generated from government enterprise projects.

You see, the government keeps two sets of books. They claim publicly that there is a budget which falsely claims this is all the money we have, at whatever level it is-- the city, the county, the state, federal. It’s usually about one-third of the actual amount. So what about the rest? The two-thirds not included in the public budget? Well, you have to seek out the C.A.F.R, which reports the actual revenue of governments at all the different levels, from all the different sources: taxes, investments, EVERYTHING.

Watch Corporation Nation.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:11 | 3394795 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I like to play with the idea that the Fed is more a vehicle than a driver.

and that the driver can exist the vehicle any time, and more to another, similar vehicle, somewhere else.

when the whole globe feels available to manipulate towards an end, why remain loyal to a landmass, which is merely a vehicle.

the drivers have no illusions about nationstates.  vehicles come and go, as history tells us. . .

/shrug.  but what do I know. . .

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:33 | 3394853 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture

You know more than I do. I'm just asking an honest question, in the vein of Fonz who also asks a lot of genuinely honest questions.

I see those who issue the currency as the driver, and the .gov as the vehicle. And FED can drive any vehicle (.gov) it wants, even if it means breaking the current .gov into many smaller, more manageable vehicles. The FED possesses the regional presence to maintain many drivers in that respect. My question is: why don't they do that? Divide and conquer would seem to naturally apply here, as this is a huge place.

And your statement that the drivers have no illusions about nationstates would play into my hand. What would the FED care if it were the USA or 8 US'es of A?

Not trying to be combative, but I've posted this idea several times. I would've taken a hint from mass-upvotes or mass-downvotes, but the ZH commenters have been radio-silent (until now), which is weird to me.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:41 | 3394881 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

we are drifting in uncharted territory now so it's difficult to prop up or knock down any theory. most times we can't even agree if they are evil genius or flailing dumbfucks.

I do think that as bad as we all think it is, the social fabric has not really been torn yet and most people are oblivious. So until something pushes them to have to pick a direction we will all just take our guesses.

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 22:47 | 3394890 ekm
ekm's picture

Correct. All we can do is analyse what is available currently and historically.

Once new data comes along, we can adjust and enhance our thoughts.


Most of these decisions are done secretly and unfold later.

Martin Armstrong's sources are telling him that the decision for cyprus was taken at the last G20 meeting.


Sun, 03/31/2013 - 23:06 | 3394943 FoeHammer
FoeHammer's picture

ekm, fonz, 1C3, Cathartes- You guys pose some excellent fucking questions and theories!   Great thread here.

  I don't have much to add-   In every relationship, there is a pimp and a prostitute. Then again, relationships aren't static and roles can be reversed. The nationstate may be expiring...

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 02:07 | 3395202 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I guess I'm a voyeur.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!