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Bitcoin Hits $101 - Doubles Since Cyprus

Tyler Durden's picture




 

From a January 2nd price of $13.16, the price of a Bitcoin in USD had risen to $46 on March 16th - right before the Cyprus 'solution' was announced. Since then, in two short weeks, the price of a Bitcoin has more than doubled, reaching $101 today. This 'exuberance' in non-fiat currency, should perhaps warrant caution as we noted here, the US is now not only actively monitoring but has commenced regulating the Bitcoin market and those who participate should be well aware that when uncle Sam is involved, things tend to have an unhappy ending for pretty much everyone involved.

 

 

Source: BitCoinCharts.com

 

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Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:44 | 3395763 machineh
machineh's picture

Bubble III, bItCHeZ!

Bubble I = internet stocks, 1999

Bubble II = houses, 2006

Bubble III = Bitcoin, 2013

Rock on ...

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:46 | 3395770 camaro68ss
camaro68ss's picture

Would anyone like to buy some Tulips?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:47 | 3395777 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

No, but if you have any gold...

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:57 | 3395812 ACP
ACP's picture

Interesting that even bit coins are having a low volume meltup, at least the last week or so.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:03 | 3395845 Debtonation
Debtonation's picture

I embrace the BTC bubble.  I've been making a fortune.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:06 | 3395861 Stackers
Stackers's picture

Powers at be must love the flood into another fake money and not into real money

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:10 | 3395878 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

Yep, the more people Max & friends talk into bitcoin, the less people buy silver. With bitcoin over $100 and silver under $28, is it really any mystery? Wouldn't be surprised if Max sold all his silver in May 2011.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:12 | 3395892 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

I don't believe that. 

Max just installed a silver gong behind him, it says "$500/oz", just so he doesn't have to say it loudly every 15 minutes.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:19 | 3395928 philipat
philipat's picture

Because Bitcoin is the ONLY thing that cannot be manipulated by TPTB. So far..............

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:32 | 3395983 Cap Matifou
Cap Matifou's picture

Buying up with unlimites funds, spread scary stories about a crash, and then "fulfill" it with dumping all at once to cause panic, will do away with BTC pretty much the old fashinoned way.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:43 | 3396022 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

All the sceptics will turn bullish when it crosses $100.000 mark.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:42 | 3396240 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

I think this is pretty funny:  http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3tlyz9/

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:50 | 3396260 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Bitcoin? Or Bitcoins?

Bit-of-Truth

Alot-of-Fraud

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 21:58 | 3398058 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

...doubles since Cyprus????

What is its value tied to, that it "doubled since Cyprus"???

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:45 | 3396025 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the more cyphers I can produce by the amount of processing power that I can wield, the more bitcoins I "discover", because bitcoins are essentially mathematical cyphers based on functions, whereby if I am able to run functions that do not yet exist in the freely available and universally shared and transferred "log"  and discover new configurations, I successfully create wealth.

And inasmuch as the structure and rules around which the cypher is maintained and the unique users of the cyphers adhere to those rules, bitcoin is stable.

Now tell me, what is the difference, if I swap out "cypher" for "serial number" and "processing power" for "printing power", between bitcoin and any scrip that has ever been developed? 

Serialization, accounting, and authentication have never been the problem with fiat.  Redemption, quality, and trust are the problems with fiat. 

The problems with fiat are human problems.  The problems with fiat are ancient. 

Thus, bitcoin feverishly applies a technological solution to a problem that requires no technological solutions.  In fact, it simply introduces new human problems.

If you don't think that bitcoin transactions can be traced, you are sorrily mistaken.  You mightn't be able to crack codes but you can certainly monitor traffic and make informed inferences.  You can also coerce human members of a network.  You can wipe data.  You can pull plugs and destroy servers.

 

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:24 | 3396172 LuisCypher
LuisCypher's picture

If you don't think that bitcoin transactions can be traced, you are sorrily mistaken.  You mightn't be able to crack codes but you can certainly monitor traffic and make informed inferences.

True , but you can also set up 1, 2 or 200 wallets yourself then shuffle the money between them. Later, pay it all back into a single wallet if you want. You cant determine which transactions are legitamate  and which I am using to launder/distance myself from the funds.

The problems with fiat are human problems.  The problems with fiat are ancient. Thus, bitcoin feverishly applies a technological solution to a problem that requires no technological solutions.

To address those human problems bitcoin has built in depreciation and a finite limit. In the context of bitcoin that is a solution to many of those problems because at the moment bitcoin is an "end user" currency, not an "other peoples money" currency.

What I mean by that is it's useful as a store of wealth and to facilitate trade, but due to trust issues it is hard for middle men to implement fractional banking practices or rampant money printing, you need to actually provide a service to skim profits.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:53 | 3396278 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

True , but you can also set up 1, 2 or 200 wallets yourself then shuffle the money between them.

You have named a workaround to spread risk, not a feature and certainly not an inherent strength.  People do this with bank accounts every day.  More importantly, people do this with their physical assets, everyday.

To address those human problems bitcoin has built in depreciation and a finite limit.

Anything that you exchange cash for depreciates.  It either proves useful or does not, or, you measure its depreciation or you don't.  Most owners of electric can openers, for instance, do not measure the depreciation of the can opener.  This doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.  You name a quality of all things. 

All serialized scrip is finite.  If you serialize scrip by a fixed set of rules, there is a natural limit to any serialized thing.  For example, if you issue bonds, and those bonds are serialized with the rule "6-number sequence", then you are limited, naturally, finitely, to issuing 100,001 notes.  Those notes may vary in nominal value aka quality, however you are limited in the number of actual notes (or events of exchange). 

Now, my next question, because I am ignorant and would like to know, does each transaction receive a single cypher for the sum of the transaction, or is each and every bitcoin coded distinctly and permanently?

Back to the points:

is it's useful as a store of wealth

The implicit wealth in a bitcoin is intangible, so no.  It is a record of account of energy, time, and materials produced or exchanged in the real, tangible world - translated into an encrypted language.  I think Bitcoiners miss the point, that BitCoin excels as a record of account between two parties exchanging real goods or services.  I think Bitcoiners try and practice an "everything you can do I can do better" mentality.

and to facilitate trade

Not yet, not until there is a more universal acceptance.  It has the INTENT, as all swap loops do, of facilitating trade but right now, it facilitates only money laundering.

but due to trust issues it is hard for middle men to implement fractional banking practices or rampant money printing, you need to actually provide a service to skim profits.

I can not refute this because I do not understand this statement.  What can be "skimmed" via BTC?

 

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 13:41 | 3396499 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Bit-er's soon to be bitter.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:05 | 3396117 SeverinSlade
SeverinSlade's picture

CBs can only artificially suppress PMs and risk for so long...Eventually the market wins.  Said it before and I'll say it again.  I'd much rather convert fiat into PMs at a huge discount (that is precisely what the manipulation creates) than chase a mega-bubblish rally in a digital currency market.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 19:29 | 3397711 PathForward
PathForward's picture

TPTB have likely been setting up a plan over a period of time with the intent of reducing overall confidence in BTC. Imagine you’re TPTB and you’d like to discredit BTC. What would you do? How about this: legitimately mine your own Bitcoins in order to build up a substantial inventory, then develop a strategic purchase plan wherein you’ll drive the price up in a parabolic manner to a certain point, during which you continue building your inventory level. Then you’ll suddenly trade a large quantity of your BTC into the market thereby driving the price down dramatically in a *very* short period of time. Then, you’ll continue selling your remaining inventory as needed to hold BTC prices down for a period of time, after which you’ll allow prices to slowly begin to rise. After the general population of BTC owners views that price action over a period of several weeks, how much confidence in BTC will remain? BTC was $100, now $10, thereby demonstrating extreme price volatility to the world. As the BTC price trend slowly climbs back upward, the TPTB will likely continue to mine more BTC and make additional small quantity purchases in the market – rinse and repeat as needed to continue destroying market confidence. TPTB don’t care if they lose fiat money while playing this game – it’s small potatoes to achieve the desired goal. Why should TPTB attempt to regulate BTC when discrediting it may be much easier? A futures market in BTC isn’t required in order for TPTB to play the game unfairly.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:24 | 3398103 Long_Xau
Long_Xau's picture

Wrong.

TPTB don’t care if they lose fiat money while playing this game

TPTB rely on money to survive. They only use their powers when they think they can gain something from it.

it’s small potatoes to achieve the desired goal

They need to first truly appreciate the potential in Bitcoin before they can set such a goal. If they ever did, they would quit their jobs immediately or push their scheme for a final kamikaze round by e.g. turning the money printer to the max. Think about it.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:29 | 3395971 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

I stopped watching his show after he was on Abby Martin "Breaking the Set." It just got worse from there, from what I can tell.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:55 | 3396060 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Was that before or after he had Fekete on his show (twice)?

Nobody as prolific as Mr.Keiser bats 1000.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 13:14 | 3396372 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

so many people seem to misunderstand bitcoin

it is incredibly simple, with value based partially on proof-of-work.

The proof-of-work also solves the problem of determining representation in majority decision making.

If the majority were based on one-IP-address-one-vote, it could be subverted by anyone able to allocate many IPs.

Proof-of-work is essentially one-CPU-one-vote. The majority decision is represented by the longest chain, which has the greatest proof-of-work effort invested in it.

If a majority of CPU power is controlled by honest nodes, the honest chain will grow the fastest and outpace any competing chains.

To modify a past block, an attacker would have to redo the proof-of-work of the block and all blocks after it and then catch up with and surpass the work of the honest nodes.

The probability of a slower attacker catching up diminishes exponentially as subsequent blocks are added.

To compensate for increasing hardware speed and varying interest in running nodes over time, the proof-of-work difficulty is determined by a moving average targeting an average number of blocks per hour. If they're generated too fast, the difficulty increases.

If this explanation isn't clear enough for you, you have no business buying, holding, or using the things.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 19:28 | 3397712 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

precisely, those who can't understand bitcoin should stay away.  Bitcoin is for those who understand the safety systems SHA256, RIPEMD160 & elliptic curve cryptography in place, it's very easy for someone new to computers to put them in danger.

BTW, the gold defaults seem to be accelerating, non?  MF Global, ABN AMRO, bacwardation, 7-years line for Germany...  I'm sure there's more.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:02 | 3398068 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Sounds like one of those video games where you buy "land" and stuff.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 14:07 | 3396584 Blano
Blano's picture

My coin dealer says otherwise.  Completely out of silver eagles, including pre-2013.  Had to buy rounds this weekend.

On the bright side, got my broke college student daughter to at least start buying some dimes.  

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:45 | 3396244 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

stackers< i dont think there are many local coin shops scattered around cyprus. Available physical PM's I dont think are readily availale to purchase except maybe online there.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 13:24 | 3396426 Albertarocks
Albertarocks's picture

You've got the best handle I've ever seen.  Nicely done!

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:50 | 3396043 Albertarocks
Albertarocks's picture

My guess is that there will 'never be' a big volume melt-up since there will 'never be' a big volume of Bitcoins.  There are 11 million in existence today with 21 million as the cap.  There will 'never be' more than 21 million of 'em and the last one will be built in year 2030.  BUT if the Fed had any brains they'd be buying up as many bitcoins down here at the cheap level so they can "try" to slam the market in the future if they dare.  I say 'dare' because they would never have the ability to go into the Bitcoin futures market and fuck it up completely like they do every other market.  If they were to try to slam the Bitcoin market down at some point in the future they will have to spend all their Bitcoins to do it.  And then what?  They're out of ammo.  Same applies to 'anybody' who might want to slam it down and find that they didn't have enough ammo.  The fact that Bitcoin cannot be ruined via "Bitcoin printing" literally ensures that it actually can "never" go down.  It can go one of two ways only.  "UP" or "OUT OF EXISTENCE".

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:01 | 3396102 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

BTC is intriguing that way

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 13:01 | 3396315 Simplifiedfrisbee
Simplifiedfrisbee's picture

And so what is bitcoin without fiat monies?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 13:08 | 3396346 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

And what if all, or even the balance of, 21 million bitcoins get hoarded by a single entity (who has gone through the trouble of maintaining scores of individual nodes or "storefronts" or wallets or dummy companies), or the smallish group of redeemers / exchangers of bitcoins-to-real-goods are unable to redeem or exchange. 

BitCoin has advantages as an encrypted unit of account, and therein lies the value and therein lies the driver of its price in dollars.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 13:26 | 3396440 Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

If the Fed or some banks buy up Bitcoins by the millions the price of the remaining Bitcoins will skyrocket. So Benny and Jamie please fucking do that!

Just like I'm glad they're suppressing gold and silver, moar chances to buy low.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 13:41 | 3396497 Albertarocks
Albertarocks's picture

A 'ruling' was made last week by 'the authorities' in the USA that Bitcoin 'is not' illegal.  Sorry I can't quote exactly who that was but it was the banking authorities somewhere along the line.  Perhaps the Fed itself.  As far as I'm concerned that's a green light.  Besides, I don't give a shit whether they deem it as illegal or not, it's more real than their god damned fiat and there's nothing they can do about that.

I am 100% convinced that they just love it because the biggest criminals in the world will suddenly see the incredibly powerful tool it has become for the purposes of hiding, transferring, laundering money.  And the biggest criminals in the world are the CIA, the Fed and the entire banking community.  You'd better believe they're going to take full advantage of it.  Over $1000 before the year is over.  Maybe much sooner than that.

 

 

 

 

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 16:11 | 3396498 Albertarocks
Albertarocks's picture

Duplicated below for some reason.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 15:57 | 3397023 billsykes
billsykes's picture

It has already been shown that it can be traced and manipulated. Its already worth 3x more than a silver ounce. Tell me how that is? 

This is the same thing as that gay game a couple yrs ago where they hired Chinese people to click and virtual mine. Where is that now? I guess you can get news of that if you search on netscape webcrawler or it might be on my space.

 

 

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 17:25 | 3397358 Albertarocks
Albertarocks's picture

Very interesting.  If you can provide any links showing that it can be manipulated and traced I'm sure a lot of people would be greatly indebted to you.  How is it more valuable than an ounce of silver?  Easy... people are willing to pay more for it than an ounce of silver.  Want me to tell you 'why' that is too?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 17:56 | 3397449 Cap Matifou
Cap Matifou's picture

With pulling the plug on the interwebs and/or electricity the virtual currency grinds to halt. Silver remains still 31.1g to the oz.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 21:26 | 3397981 Albertarocks
Albertarocks's picture

Exactly right, which is why I said "It has two ways to go, UP or OUT OF EXISTENCE.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:56 | 3395814 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

The US Gov will step in and embrace, support, endorse, regulate and ultimately crush!

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:14 | 3395900 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I was in at $48.  Talked about it here on ZH in several threads just a few weeks ago.  Only did $500 just as "research" on how the thing operates.  Now I wish I had gone $5,000 or $50,000, but that's the breaks.

Regarding how it works..... it's a complete clusterfuck setting up an account with MtGox.com (Bitcoin itself and their wallet are easy, but getting it funded is the problem and that requires an exchange like the popular Mt. Gox or similar).  When I went to the bank to wire the money to Mt. Gox they flagged down every manager in the place to try to talk me out of it.  "Sir, you realize once we complete this wire transfer there is no way to pull it back, right?  AND YOU REALIZE YOU ARE SENDING THE MONEY TO AN ACCOUNT IN JAPAN, RIGHT?"

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Por favor, send the fucking money already.  I know what I'm doing (I think).

You gotta WANT it, baby!  This ain't PayPal with some chocolate sprinkles on top.  This is like opening an FX account in Japan from the US.

 

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:20 | 3395932 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

How does one declare the foreign account to the IRS? The usual way?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:28 | 3395961 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

At present, you don't.  One of the many unanswered "real world" questions left before me.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:42 | 3396016 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

LMFAO. How long until securities registration, qualified investor status, etc.? BitCoin invites competition, but watch your back if you think YOU can compete with FRNs. Stupid sheep.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:49 | 3396048 Banksters
Banksters's picture

The cartel will ass hammer bitcoin.  Not if,but when.

 

I like silver.   You can touch it and industry needs it.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:58 | 3396088 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

It's either (i) an electronic currency, ready to get all the "benefits" from .gov that would imply, or (ii) it's a novelty not much better than tulip bulbs. Which is it?

If you vote (iii) none of the above because This Time Is Different then I will simply wish you bonne chance.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:48 | 3396234 Albertarocks
Albertarocks's picture

I was looking into Bitcoin when it was trading at 6 cents.  I didn't buy any back then.  Too bad because $1,000 worth of Bitcoins back then is worth $1.7M today.

I agree with you on the rest of it too.  It sure is a clusterfuck trying to get the account set up and then funding it.  I had no problems with my bank (Canadian) trying to talk me out of anything though.  The problem is waiting for the fucking money to show up in the account.  WTF is "somebody" doing with our money while it is "hung up" somewhere out there in the fucking ethernet?  That has always bugged the living shit out of me because "somebody" is using that money for the 4 or 5 days that it vanishes.

BTW, I didn't set up with Mt.Gox but with the new startup in Canada called VirtEx.https://www.cavirtex.com/home

They issued an IPO last week and it sold out in 12 hours.  They are the new kid on the block but they seem totally legit.  The website is a bit hard to navigate and I've spoken to them about that.  They're aware of it and will endeavor to fix it up as they move along.  But for you Americans, if you're a bit more comfortable setting up your Bitcoin buying platform a little closer to home, and trust a Canadian start-up, then I'd suggest the link above.  My money is where my mouth is.  If nothing else, it doesn't hurt that you and we at least speak the same language.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 16:09 | 3397082 billsykes
billsykes's picture

Ha Ha, you are gettn scammed. 

IPO they say? hint ipo is initial public offering.  They are private. you cannot "IPO" without an exchange. without a prospectus. 

They are on no known exchanges. They issued no financials, they have zero audits or auditors. They have no management listed. 

IF they are VERTEX- or VTXX they have a huge market cap of 43,000.00

In short they are a total scam. 

 

Buy in if you want but my gut is telling me you are not one of the punters. 

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 17:32 | 3397364 Albertarocks
Albertarocks's picture

Getting scammed?  How am I getting scammed when I didn't buy it?  lol  It was gone before I had the chance.

Secondly, I now know the owners.  They are the real deal.  Sure, very small but in no way a scam.  That wasn't even a half-assed good debunking attempt billybob.  Next?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 19:57 | 3397774 billsykes
billsykes's picture

So you are a somewhat of an insider because no one talks up for a company they passed on.

That's bullshit right there. OH I know all the guys on the inside but passed on the investment. BULL fucking shit. Oh it was all gone, BULL fucking shit - that's what a green shoe is for. Never met a company that closed up a Private placement for their buddy. 

 

Lets assume they are legit (which they are not and neither are you Albertasuckscox).  

To break down in dummy steps: 

1. they would have to register in canada as a EMD or exempt market dealer- they have not done that. check-able with the OSC. 

2. to IPO they would have to register with an exchange. Sedar or the SEC, they have not done that. PLUS they are lying about having a ticker that alone is violation of every regulatory body in north america. 

3. If you think I am half assing it, your right I am not being paid to protect the punters but calling an offering a IPO shows complete utter ignorance of finance.
Poof, my faith in mgt. is gone. 

4. if you think BT is a real medium of exchange or currency then finance fundamentals do come into play- WHY Lord Bill you ask? Because you have to exchange something for BT. 

5. If they set up a BT exchange it is the same type of business as a currency exchange. With BT this is doubly compounded- a. you have security risks that traditional forex does not have or has money to fix. b. really the same as a except the float is sub 100m which makes it really shifty and potentially very volatile. 

6. If you say "this time is different" I have a bridge to sell you.  But I think that you are the one selling the bridge today.  VirtEx is a scam.

 

 

 

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 01:01 | 3398354 Albertarocks
Albertarocks's picture

I respect your opinions, even though you're a complete asshole about it.  A quick check on your past comments shows what a negative thinking dickweed you are, but that's your problem, not mine.  As Jamie Dimon would say "that's why I'm richer than you."  :-)

Best of luck to you.  Remember me when BTC hits $1,000, ok?  Because mark my words... bookmark this page... they're going to.  In the meantime, I'll provide a link where you can learn something useful.  You can thank me later.  Now buzz off.

http://www.businessinsider.com/presentation-what-is-bitcoin-2013-3#compu...

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:20 | 3399381 billsykes
billsykes's picture

I only neg on this site. Mainly because I expect people to be smarter here. 

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:15 | 3395908 Matt
Matt's picture

The question is, does Unlce Sam still have reach beyond his own borders?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:19 | 3395920 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

THE REAL QUESTION:
WHEN WILL PEOPLE STOP TRADING FIAT CURRENCY FOR ANOTHER FIAT CURRENCY!!!

STUPID FUCKING MORONIC LEMMINGS!!!

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:54 | 3396073 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

SD, you ought to know better than that.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 15:35 | 3396918 MagicHandPuppet
MagicHandPuppet's picture

Not defending BitCoin (and I don't own any)... but, just because it isn't backed by something does not make it fiat (money that derives its value from government regulation or law).  As long as the gubment mafia doesn't force us to use it, I won't poo poo it or call it "fiat".

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 19:45 | 3397752 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Ah, my Belgian Friend; you're talking to the people who elected Obama; for the second time. In many cases by pretending that it didn't matter who won and just not voting; because they were afraid that thinking might really give them a headache, like their friend Billy Bob warned them; so they didn't try it. And you want them to suddenly show signs of intelligence? You're asking a bit much, my friend.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:20 | 3395927 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Ask Napster, LimeWire and InTrade.

 

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:31 | 3395975 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

And Megaupload.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:40 | 3396013 machineh
machineh's picture

If I change my name to Kim Dotgov, will that protect me from prosecution?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:12 | 3396133 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

It will if accompanied by the right social connections with Hahvahd.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:52 | 3396066 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

And Swiss fucking banks.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:33 | 3395995 derek_vineyard
derek_vineyard's picture

ive got my shares of webvan listed on ebay

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 19:51 | 3396112 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Can we ask Pierre to Pierre?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:43 | 3396021 CH1
CH1's picture

The US Gov will step in and embrace, support, endorse, regulate and ultimately crush!

.. he writes wistfully.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:20 | 3395856 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I'll trade you my PETS.COM shares for your Tullips!!!! DEAL?

OR I GOT A EVEN BETTER IDEA!!!

MEGABYTECOIN!!!

THE NEW INTERNET CURRENCY THAT'S 8388608 TIMES BIGGER THAN BITCOIN!!!
WE INVEST 250k and turn it into a bllion dollar enterprice by calling it:
THE NEWER SAFER CURRENCY!!!

AND THE GOOD PART IS WE CAN RUN THE WEBSITE ON A SIMPLE LAPTOP SO OUR WEALTH WILL BE PORTABLE!!!

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:28 | 3395969 camaro68ss
camaro68ss's picture

i personally like Terabytecoins better, more bang for your buck.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:59 | 3396094 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

Interesting point.   All that has to happen to lower the value of bitcoin is other internet coins appearing.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:23 | 3396166 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Not really, because Bitcoin has an awesome dev team.  All of them (as well as the users on the network) would need to agree that the other coin is the superior project and switch their time and effort to it.  Bitcoin has already established itself in this regard.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:43 | 3396245 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

Anyone is still free to buy other coins.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:51 | 3396255 Swarmee
Swarmee's picture

Yes, of course, because as we all know once a 'dev team' agrees a project is good it will never fork, split, or evolve into something else which will pull away other programmers. Nor will a successful venture ever invite competition from other competent coders. See Linux, Unix, Redhat, Debian, Ubuntu, Raspian, OSX, knoppix, gentoo, RPM, Slackware, etc.

Nope, there will never be a division or fork!

Tell us, when 1 BTC = $10,000 is it more or less likely that new users will choose instead e.g. BTC2 which is based on the same principles but uses a different cypher? After seeing BTC reach such heady heights would no speculators decide that owning 1 BTC2 is a better speculative gamble than owning 0.0001 BTC? Which would have more potential upside at that point?

Enjoy the bubble before it pops.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 19:19 | 3397693 rygar
rygar's picture

There are tons of bitcoin forks alreay. Plenty of second grade geniuses figured out they can be the first ones now at the top of bitcoin-clone piramid. well, there is a problem. Everyone knows that these new forks are all about making those new people rich and nothing more. Bitcoin is worldwide. It has thin history under its belt, but at least it has one.

But its true that there is a big question - who owns the project, dictates changes and such. 

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:31 | 3395978 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

I find your lack of faith in the internet ... disturbing ...

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 19:48 | 3397758 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Dude; you don't understand; they can't think. that's all there is; they can't think. Give it up.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:01 | 3396101 jomama
jomama's picture

what's better than roses on your piano?

tulips on your organ.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 13:53 | 3396535 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

We have a winner! At least tulips were tangible assets.

What could be more of a bubble, than a speculative mania on that which does not exist?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 17:21 | 3397343 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

@camaro68ss

Tulips, the usual trope that people pull out of their hat. Bitcoin is far removed from the kind of 'bubble' you're talking about. Tulip prices for Gouda bulbs were 60 guilders at the peak, from a starting price of ~1.5 guilders. That represents a percentage change of 3,900% over three years.

(Reference: http://www.thebubblebubble.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Tulipomania.gif)

The first time I mentioned bitcoin on Zerohedge was June 1st, 2011:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/moodys-downgrades-greece-just-few-notch...

The traded price was then $9.55

Today's Price as of 22:05 London time: $103.50

Percentage change: 983.77% (Four years and counting.)

Percentage change isn't the only yardstick, however. There are stocks listed on the NASDAQ that were once on OTC "pink sheets". They appreciated about ~24,000% - which puts any claim to being a 'bubble' to rest. If you have good fundamentals, you appreciate in value.

Bitcoin has open source transparency, ledger transparency, unfettered transfer ability, and isn't controlled by political maniacs or their economic henchmen. I'd say that is a strong argument for being an invaluable currency and payment system.

 

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:48 | 3395778 Debtonation
Debtonation's picture

I don't understand why ZH's are so opposed to BTC.  All currency has value due to the concept of faith, including PMs.  I invested less than 1% of my fiat and its been doing a lot better than PMs.  If BTC ends up going mainstream the sky is the limit, if not I lose next to nothing.  I still have substantial net worth in physical PMs.  You could at least ride the wave up.  What do you have to lose?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:49 | 3395789 CH1
CH1's picture

They are doing the usual stupid thing: If it's new and not mine, it's evil.

Reasons are not required and lies will be manufactured as required.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:00 | 3395827 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

One thing you learn reading Zero Hedge day after day is that "it's never different this time." A bubble is a bubble, whether it's tulips or bits. Each new bubble thinks it is different and it never is. Sure, human stupidity knows no bounds and a bubble can go on for a very long time, much longer than we think it should. But eventually, like all bubbles, it will pop and the last ones in will lose everything.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:04 | 3395850 CH1
CH1's picture

Dude, you don't even understand the thing you're talking about. So, you point to a pattern and say, "See, it will fail!"

Reality takes primacy over patterns. LEARN something before making pronouncement.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:04 | 3395855 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

I studied bitcoin for 1.5 to 2 years and THEN made my decision about it. It's bullshit in the end. Stay away.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:07 | 3395874 CH1
CH1's picture

Ah, so two years study taught you that BTC is a Pyramid scheme?

Maybe you should have taken some remedial math first.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:21 | 3395925 Matt
Matt's picture

Do you understand what a bubble is? I am quite certain that within the next ~6 months, the BTC will collapse in price. The higher and faster it goes up, the higher and faster it collapses back down. Look at the price charts for 2011; this season's bitcoin rush is much larger. Who knows, maybe the bubble will last longer, but at any moment, you have to be prepared for a drop down under $20 / USD per BTC.

 

EDIT: I do, however, think it will recover to bubble up again. The bigger the bubble, the sharper the collapse, the longer it will take before it gets back into the mainstream.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:28 | 3395970 redpill
redpill's picture

I don't think the majority of ZH readership is opposed to the idea of bitcoins (crypto-currency not directly created by the government). For my part, the problem is that such an inherently dangerous concept (from the perspective of central planners) would be seen as too large of a threat to the government-printed fiat game should it ever become broadly used (and let's be realistic, we're talking a tiny number of people compared to the scope of the larger currency markets today). When governments feel threatened, it's difficult to underestimate the lengths they will go to in order to crush the opposition.

In this case, for bitcoins to become a true alternative currency, it assumes that government will not clamp down on legitimate businesses that would accept it (they would), charities that would take it as donation (they would), identified mining operations (they would), companies that advertise mining hardware (they would), anyone they manage to catch otherwise using them (they would), attempt various schemes to undermine butcoin value (using taxpayer monies against the taxpayers themselves, they would), and perhaps most tragically speed up the rate of draconian regulation of the Internet in order to interfere with as many avenues of anonymity as possible (they would).

Other issues seem to support the call for caution. For instance, look at the constant government drumbeat for gun control, when we have a Constituional amendment specifically prohibiting government from infringing on the right to keep and bear arms. It's the second amendment written only behind freedom of speech! Yet it gets throttled constantly. What chance does something like bitcoin have when it has no specifically enumerated protection at all?

I wish as much as any bitcoin enthusiast that it could be a template for the future, but the reality is that it is diametrically opposed to what world governments want in terms of anonymity. The chances of it being destroyed or co-opted are too great. Governments love the idea of purely electronic money, of course, but it will be 100% traceable or they will destroy it.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:46 | 3396033 machineh
machineh's picture

Well said. Most ZHers welcome an anonymous currency.

But governments will react violently as soon as it becomes a serious threat (from their point of view).

On March 18, 2011, von NotHaus was pronounced guilty of "making, possessing, and selling his own currency."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar

Making your own currency -- only evil counterfeiters do that! /sarc

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:19 | 3396158 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Bitcoin is far from being in a bubble.  How can something be in a bubble if 9/10 people have never heard of it and out of the remaining 1/10, 10% of them actually understand how it works?  Bitcoin is just following fairly normal patterns of free software downloads and usage.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 13:14 | 3396373 Swarmee
Swarmee's picture

Ever been to an anime convention? Anime being a catch-all term for Japanese cartoons, comics and culture (not going into detail here, we'll leave it at that). Basically you've got teens and Tweens who go through periods of obsessive fads with various cartoon series. They will create costumes, fan fiction, and absolutely soak up merchandise. It is a small scale example of bubbles at work. I used to sell stuff at these conventions and if you predicted that years fad shows you made a killing, bring the leftover merch back the next year and most of the time you could barely move the stuff.

So what's my point? It is this, 90% of the population has not heard of most of the shows, characters, or merch these kids are focused on. And out of the actual fans maybe 10% get caught up in any given one show. And yet bubbles still grew and popped. You don't need the entirety of a culture or population to buy into a fad to say its in a bubble. It's all relative. Bitcoin could very well be in a huge bubble and drop precipitously without the other 90% of the world ever knowing what it was. Tulip mania did not affect the entire world, just portions of it, yet the was an indisputable bubble.

What's mo important for the success of BTC in my opinion is ease of adoption; in deployment, understanding, and use. If you have to have a deep nerd talk with someone just to explain how to use it and what it is, you've already alienated a huge swatch of the non-tech-savvy population. How many people can't get their parents to use email effectively? And you think those folks will jump through the current hoops to set up wallets, exchanges, verify transactions, etc? There needs to be a massive simplification of the end user experience first, and there needs to be a wider useful set of merchants which is easily located and enumerated before there is broad acceptance. In short, the BTC/$ conversion rate is expanding much faster than the general user base. It's not clear it is in a stable ascent given the narrow acceptance. Any stock I have ever been in that reaches this rate of growth has very quickly retraced hard. It may run for a while longer but the risk is evident. Good luck, and remember to always take some profits on the way UP!

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 16:25 | 3397151 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Leon Pober's "tiny bubbles"?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 17:32 | 3397377 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

your analogy works for me Swarmee, in that certain communities tend to congregate, compete, discard within their exclusiveness - there is a necessary sell-by date quality to being perceived as more unique/special, and that will chase "the new" every time.

I have no interest in bitcoins, nor do I "condemn" the ideas or users. . . but I do note the demographics are pointing to a certain perception of "specialness" amongst the users,

The ‘average Bitcoin user’ is male (96%), 32.7 years old, libertarian / anarcho-capitalist (37%), non-religious (61%), with a full time job (43%), and is in a relationship (56%).

this is a particular group, and yes, it's the average user, but it does suggest a sort of trend(y) user demographic - I suspect the idea of "profits" will keep the interest high, but again, only with those who value the game/gaming.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:52 | 3396068 Banksters
Banksters's picture

Bingo, redpill.

 

There are a hundred and one ways the cartel can fuck bit coin.  Shit, they can say it is a route for drug money laundering, who cares that banks are caught all the time, or terrorism.  BAM  

 

The regs will come fast and hard.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:57 | 3396300 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

Yeah, yeah...just like they stopped BitTorrent. Oh, wait....

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 13:12 | 3396330 redpill
redpill's picture

Bit Torrent does not threaten the global banking cartel.

Besides, ask Kim Dotcom how much fun it is to be on the wrong side of these jackboot assholes.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 16:27 | 3397159 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Free Kim DotCom! Oh wait... nm.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:43 | 3396159 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

Yup, exactly. 

If they don't control it 100% and if their cronies can't steal it, then they will attempt to destroy it. 

Very likely BTC will no longer have a dollar value when that happens because any legitimate exchanges will be closed or limited to trading in Rubles or Brazilian whatevers. Which will support the claim that it is an evil commie plot and only an evil commie would have any. 

 

... leaving me searching for places outside of Des Moines that will take Dwolla ...

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 15:11 | 3396823 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

@redpill

Thank you for a concise and non-emotional list of things that governments would do to bitcoin. I don't disagree that they will attempt it, and yes, there will be obstacles to overcome.

Your caution is warranted, and I have also thought about what a threatened government might do. One built-in defense to prohibiting or outright banning is the implied legitimacy that such actions imply. That may be the only true reason they haven't strong-armed anyone yet.

Everyone is wary of the Fincen comments, and while the edge-exchanges serve a purpose in the beginning, we may find that after a short period of time their role will become less dominant. We are in a critical stage of equity transfer, and given the growth rate (not just valuation, but adoption) I think we have a decent chance to escape the event horizon of the sovereign currency black hole.

Every investment has its risks. Bitcoin is a risk that I'm willing to take.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:19 | 3395929 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

Bullshit or not? You decide. BitCoin is:

  1. Backed by nothing, created out of thin air;
  2. Managed by algos, protected by algos, accessed by algos;
  3. Traded in a small online market and difficult to convert to actual goods/services;
  4. Dominated by a few large anonymous holdings with unknown intent;
  5. Likely monitored by a variety of "interested third parties" that are know by various 3-letter acronyms;
  6. "Mined" by computers at a predetermined rate to keep supply growing (still backed by nothing);
  7. Limited in total production, they promise!; and,
  8. The best known digital currency at this point, but subject to new competitors, gov't oversight and other unknown factors.

Gee, I just convinced myself to go long BitCoin! Or not.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:32 | 3395980 CH1
CH1's picture

 

 

  1. False.
  2. False. (One, open source algo.)
  3. False.
  4. Probably false.
  5. Possibly true, but easy to circumvent.
  6. True. (False.)
  7. True and certain.
  8. True.
Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:48 | 3396052 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

1. False. This is an April Fool's joke answer, right? What backs BitCoin? There is no (i) full faith and credit; (ii) physical store of value; or (iii) military.

2. False. Again you must not be paying attention. Please let me know how to access a  BitCoin account without some intermediary software interface. Please.

I am not going to bother with the rest, as you've proved my point. Thanks for playing.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 13:01 | 3396323 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

"Full faith & credit". That's a good one! Applied to a currency that has lost 97% of it's value in 100 years.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 13:17 | 3396396 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

At least there are (broke) taxpayers behind the USD. What's behind BitCoin?

PS - Yes I laughed as I typed that part. I also gave you +1

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:03 | 3396110 Lugnut
Lugnut's picture

The IRS already went after 1 guy a few years who paid a corporate obligation (Payroll?) on gold $20 coins and declared the transaction value based on the face value of the coins, not the true value of thetransaction in gold valuation, and they went after him for the tax differential.

Government love taxes and hates competing non-soverign currency. Right now , its cute and viable. At some point in the future, it will end in tears.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 13:33 | 3396444 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

Listen to the BTC lemming..  Talk about learning something before MAKING PRONOUNCEMENT. Right I suppose you hedge your bitcoin portfolio with a pokemon card collection as well? One oly has to see the premise of the bitcoin. details be damned. It doesnt fucking matter how you spin it. It is a scheme that will many a fool to financial loss. PERIOD!    

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:12 | 3395877 fuu
fuu's picture

The bubble is in dollars...$85,000,000,000/mo. Mind fucked numb.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:10 | 3395879 Capitalist
Capitalist's picture

Look at a monthly chart of gold and it looks like a bubble. Just because price goes straight up does not imply a bubble

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:18 | 3395921 SeverinSlade
SeverinSlade's picture

Keyword monthly not daily. Plus when real inflation and QE is factored in gold is nowhere near bubble status.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 13:06 | 3396345 Professorlocknload
Professorlocknload's picture

But you must admit, those on this board ancient enough to remember this, it was a lot of fun while it lasted ;-)

Bit Coin 1.0  Cali Style  http://isteve.blogspot.com/2009/03/great-california-pyramid-scheme-mania...

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:18 | 3395893 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

As I've said multiple times, the intellectual "machinery" behind bitcoin is great, and its ability to circumvent capital controls is also something to be applauded. That said, it's quite obvious that's what will draw attention from the feds. I still haven't heard anyone address my two main concerns with bitcoin:

1) It gets labeled as a tool of terrorism and/or organized crime. The stigma of that label prevents mainstream retailers from accepting it, and converting bitcoins to goods and services or back to fiat becomes next to impossible. Bitcoin is thus relegated strictly to black market transactions. This is the simplest course of action for the feds to take, so it's likely the one which will be implemented.

2) The shit really hits the fan, and while the internet may not be down world-wide, its inaccessability in one's own neck of the woods means commerce reverts to a local hand-to-hand exchange of goods and services. Incidentally, the return to a barter system is also what will limit gold's usefulness as a medium of exchange, at least temporarily, as the mess in the Balkans demonstrated.

In my opinion, bitcoin will make a fine alternative currency up to the point one of the above scenarios takes place, but it is not something that is safe to save in from a long-term perspective.

EDIT: Don't just vote my post down and run away. I raised what I believe are two serious issues, and if bitcoin supporters don't even take the time to craft a one sentence response, most of us will take it to mean they have no response to those issues.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:25 | 3395952 nmewn
nmewn's picture

If I were a bitcoin supporter (and I'm not, although it is a useful short term tool for private transactions) I would be screaming at the top of my lungs AT other bitcoin supporters who make statements like this...

"I embrace the BTC bubble. I've been making a fortune."

...it reeks of bubble mania ;-)

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:31 | 3395981 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

if im a cypriot during that shut down...do you think a vendor would accept my 1964 quarters and dimes for his gas or my bitcoins, where air is worth 100.00 a piece?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:33 | 3395994 Matt
Matt's picture

false choice, there is no gas.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:33 | 3395988 Matt
Matt's picture

#1: it already has been labeled as a tool of crime, since non-regulated gambling and the purchase of illicit goods are two major uses for BTC. Maybe not by the Fed, but by lots of journalists covering Bitcoin.

Also, your America-centric view seems like a bit fo a relic. Even if America outlaws it, I'm sure it will grow in popularity through Eurasia, Latin America, Africa. People are losing their faith and trust in European authorities, and want to get at least a portion of their money out of the system and out of the area.

#2: Are you really worried about things going down to the point of no cell phones, for any length of time, anywhere outside a major warzone?

My bigger concern is that due to segmentation of the Internet as a result of a dispute amongst sovereigns causes a splintering in the blockchain (ledger). That, or some other change that causes a crisis due to some limitation in the design or implementation.

I think the speculative nature of a currency that openly advertises that it is deflationary in a world of inflation, is the real reason BTC is not a good long term store of value. The lack of a broad, more even distrbution of the coins means it is subject to wild price swings, generally in the form of recurring bubble-bust cycles. 

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:11 | 3396131 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

re: #2. Please define "war zone" because I'm sure it could never happen here.

China Limits Internet Usage, Cites Porn and Obscene Content (2009)

New legislation limits Internet access in Russia (2012)

US Passes Modified SOPA/PIPA Limiting Use of Internet (2014?)

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:48 | 3398291 Matt
Matt's picture

America is a War zone: they have the War on Poverty, War on Drugs, War on Terror. So, at least three declared wars going on right at home.

China is a communist command economy. The Special Economic Zones where the factories are, are the exception, not the norm.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:27 | 3396188 redpill
redpill's picture

Huh?  China and Russia are leading the charge on Internet regulation and limiting anonymous cash purchases.  If anything they will ban BTC before the US does.

 

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:46 | 3396253 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

... but they will gladly support it if they think it will hurt the $US. 

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:27 | 3396193 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

i was giving a point of view during the time of crisis....if my cash was locked up were i am denied access , what is going to serve a better purpose at that time ?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 20:06 | 3397796 Matt
Matt's picture

If you want to buy gasoline in Cyprus, if it were available, I would assume the silver coins would be a better bet (but why not just use American $20 bills?) but if you are trying to smuggle $100,000 out of the country, bitcoin is better.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 15:17 | 3396847 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

@McMolotov

Yes, it most certainly could be smeared by association with drugs and money laundering, terrorism, etc.. We've seen elements of those arguments already. Our defense is that other currencies share the same characteristics.

Internet problems would hinder bitcoin - and if things really went to hell, would prevent the network from operating like it should. I've advocated for use of precious metals and bitcoin as a dual-pronged strategy. I consider the likelyhood of all internet nodes being offline extremely remote - but if it does occur, that is what PMs are for.

PM stackers and bitcoin stackers have a lot in common. We both face financial tyranny and choose options to defend ourselves against it.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:34 | 3398274 Long_Xau
Long_Xau's picture

1) There are two kinds of stigma. Bitcoin is one of those things that organized crime rings such as governments would want to stigmatize not because it itself violates any rights or morals, but because it gives freedom to people to do things outside of their control. People know this and this is why you get the effect of the forbidden fruit with some things - they want to try them to see what freedom they might find there. After all, there are more and more things that people do and want to do that are being denied by organized crime. People find freedom in precious metals, Bitcoin and other things. So, if anything, a stigma might attract more attention and bring mainstream adoption faster.
If it has to be the black market, so be it. Do you think I would give a shit about what bad things people might think when I use precious metals or Bitcoin? Ha!
Eventually the black market and the white market will simply swap places.
2) Barter is fine.
One more currency can only make the possibility of a coincidence of wants higher, not smaller.
If there is a event that disrupts infrastructure significantly, bitcoin prices may fall somewhat while it lasts, due to increased need for goods and services. Or if you use Bitcoin in a business and retain access to it, it might give you a huge competitive advantage (see this post from another article).

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:06 | 3396119 jomama
jomama's picture

you should really stop taking BTC speculation so personally.

just a friendly suggestion.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:49 | 3395791 camaro68ss
camaro68ss's picture

cant hold it in your hand, its not real to me.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:59 | 3395825 Debtonation
Debtonation's picture

Well, the profits are certainly real to me!

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:00 | 3395834 CH1
CH1's picture

They don't care, they just need to slap at something.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:16 | 3396149 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

Said profits duly reported and taxed, right? Since the internetz are all anonymous and stuff.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:51 | 3395797 SeverinSlade
SeverinSlade's picture

I wholly support the IDEA behind Bitcoin.  Given the size, scope, and strength of our government, investing in a fully digitized currency just seems risky to me.  Yes, I know, I know, the way that Bitcoin is constructed SHOULD keep government intrusion limited (and confiscation/shutdown of BTC very difficult).  There are other methods to attack BTC though.  What is preventing government from regulating/shutting down any merchants that accept BTC?  What prevents them from sending SWAT teams to the door of any BTC merchant/user?  The fact that it's digital means it's much easier to track.

Any diehard BTC proponents care to enlighten me?  Maybe I'm wrong.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:59 | 3395820 CH1
CH1's picture

Who told you to "invest fully"?

As for the omnipotent powers that be... how are they doing with Silk Road?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:01 | 3395833 SeverinSlade
SeverinSlade's picture

Maybe re-read what I posted.  Bitcoin is a fully digitized currency.  I never said to fully invest in it...

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:05 | 3395854 CH1
CH1's picture

My apologies.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:01 | 3395840 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

Silk Road is basically a honey pot that leads them to drug rings. The site itself has never been shut down, but the people selling on it have been. If you are just some twirp college student buying an extasy pill, they won't waste their time. But if you're a guy with a warehouse of exstasy pills unloading them on Silk Road, you're not impervious to arrest.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:05 | 3395858 CH1
CH1's picture

LOL... and you know this how?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:41 | 3395991 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

Newspaper articles. Try reading one sometime that isn't about shitcoins. An LSD ring got busted off Silk Road, as well as others. Plus feds shut down the whole Farmer's Market site, which was also a drug site you had to access via Tor. Silk Road itself is only a matter of time, but they will see where else the data leads them first.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:25 | 3395953 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

The Silk Road thing illustrates the big problem I continually bring up that bitcoin supporters fail to address. What if bitcoin remains relegated to online black market status because the feds label it as a tool of terrorism and/or organized crime? Sorry, but in that case, it is completely useless for most people who A) are scared of black market transactions, and B) are technologically illiterate.

Widespread acceptance is what is necessary to make a medium of exchange useful.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:37 | 3396004 Matt
Matt's picture

There are services that allow you to pay in bitcoin, and they convert it to whatever currency the merchant wants.

The amount of Internet and physical world business accepting bitcoin is growing exponentially; I wish I could find a resource that fully lists and charts businesses that accept BTC for their goods or services.

Also, why do you think the world cares what the Fed thinks? Do you believe that America will remain "The Power" indefinitely? I think your faith in America: World Police is a bit misplaced.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 12:08 | 3396124 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

America: World Police, along with various "coalitions of the willing," have fucked over every single country so far that has tried to distance itself from the petro-dollar. You seem to think America is alone in its willingness to defend the Fed's monopoly on the creation of the world's reserve currency. It's not, as has been demonstrated time and time again.

All it takes is one big retailer — like Amazon — saying it won't accept bitcoins because it is "fighting terrorism," and that will seal bitcoin's fate. It will never rise above black market status at that point. What happens if Google starts returning zero results for bitcoin searches? Have you forgotten the way governments and corporations around the world have basically merged?

And as much as we have a global economy, we also have a global syndicate that derives power from its control over the world's reserve currency. Don't think for a minute the powers-that-be won't fight tooth and nail to preserve their place at the top.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 19:44 | 3397745 Matt
Matt's picture

"America: World Police, along with various "coalitions of the willing," have fucked over every single country so far that has tried to distance itself from the petro-dollar."

Yep, they are certainly punishing the crap out of China for establishing trade with other countries outside the USD regime. Or at the very least, they must be punishing China's partners, such as Australia, Brazil, Russia and India, right? What's that, no retribution at all? huh.

"Have you forgotten the way governments and corporations around the world have basically merged?"

Seems to me they are more in the process of un-merging at this point. Probably going to split into the pro-America and pro-China factions, but it's too early to really say.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 14:14 | 3400323 Long_Xau
Long_Xau's picture

Let it be.

Oh, and btw stop dissin' colored markets ;)

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:59 | 3395826 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

In summary, criminals do NOT like free market competition, and will use all tools at their disposal to crush it. Anybody who thinks otherwise is blinded by the shiny from the "words on paper" used to construct facade they feel protected by.

In other words, they've an immature world view. They'll learn though.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 14:17 | 3400331 Long_Xau
Long_Xau's picture

Come on, bring your worst.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:51 | 3395801 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

the point of the article is that the heavy hand of gubmint regulation may soon bitch slap the btc euphoria

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:54 | 3395807 RacerX
RacerX's picture

Render unto Ceasar..

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:54 | 3395803 HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

So I was asking people about Bitcoins this weekend. Nobody knows wtf they are, and when I explained it they're even less interested.

This is a top, sell now and move on. You made a nice trade.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:16 | 3395912 overbet
overbet's picture

Like all bubbles guys will start calling tops early.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:27 | 3395960 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

I gave you  +1 for agreeing that it's a bubble.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:23 | 3395940 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

NOBODY SELLS WHEN IT'S THAT HIGH!!!

MOAR
MOAAAAARRRR
MMOOOOOOAAARRRR!!!

BITCOIN TO 1000$!!!!

PUMP PUMP PUMP!!! WE'LL NEVER SELL!!!

and than it drops to 1 cent....

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 10:57 | 3395817 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

This is the greatest pyramid scheme to ever exist.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:00 | 3395828 CH1
CH1's picture

A Pyramid? Do you know ANYTHING about how this works?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:08 | 3395873 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

Yes. The first people in get something for nothing. The more people they can con into joining the system, the more they can make from nothing, completely bypassing the real, productive economy. Every single transaction is saved forever in a public record for law enforcement to decipher later. It's a great idea... for awhile. 

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 11:09 | 3395882 CH1
CH1's picture

So, mining BTC is to get something for nothing?

Amazing.

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