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Guest Post: The Great Disconnect - Markets Vs. Economy

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Submitted by Lance Roberts of Street Talk Live,

 

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Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:12 | 3398097 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

There's only one way this can end (clue: the economy will not go up to catch up with the market).

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:16 | 3398111 CClarity
CClarity's picture

Precisely. Which will in turn send the economy down further into the debt death spiral vortex we know is coming. Until the reset. The big Q is who/what will be in charge of the reset and who/what will they favor?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:55 | 3398192 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"The big Q is who/what will be in charge of the reset and who/what will they favor?"

Who's in charge now? Bernie pumps the stock markets with limitless amounts of new cash while Barry deflates the real economy with new taxes and regulations to feed the growing welfare state.  Both are destroyin the middle class, so we know what they favor.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:05 | 3398205 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Why do you think DHS's Janet Nappy is buying up every bullet in sight?

The Obama Admin has "plans" for all of us comes the meltdown...

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:12 | 3398230 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The bankers have the plans.  The Admin doesn't matter, though you correctly observe that the current one has Obama as the titular head.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:28 | 3398261 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

We know, The Admin never matters to you when it's a progressive liberal. 

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 00:44 | 3398381 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

So what's your point?  That it matters?

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 01:36 | 3398435 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

No. It seems like it still matters to you.  Any President that mattered was "dealt" with.  Anyone now, D or R coming up the ranks that may possibly make a difference and is against the progressive Statist agenda is dealt with by the MSM.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 01:40 | 3398438 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Progressive Statist agenda?  What about the conservative Statist agenda?  Is that okay, or do you hereby renounce your conservativism?  Reagan and Bush I and II were statists, my Red friend.  For God's sake -- Reagan practically invented the transfer of money from taxpayers to the banks via the State, or at least reinvented it after a brief hiatus.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 01:50 | 3398448 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

See, here goes your disinformation, Reagan was a Statist.  Sure the Bush Dynasty bought into the same statist agenda any like progressive Democrat, but not Reagan.  Or JFK for that matter,  That's why he was dealt with.  I know you're not dumb enough to believe what you say about conservatives, so I must think you're praying on low information people.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 01:54 | 3398450 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Did government and government debt grow or decline under your God Reagan?  Pretty simple question with a clear answer.  Apologize for him much, Red Team?  How about some high information about why I'm wrong....

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 03:00 | 3398520 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Government and government debt has NEVER declined since the creation of The Fed.    That was the start of the 100 year centrally planned economy that eventually progressed to the present condition  The welfare State could not have grown anywhere close to it's present size if it were limited by sound money, So a new central banking system was created in 1913 by progressive hero, Pres. Wilson.  So now with the end of the Fed at hand, is the end of the great central planning experiment and a once great free Nation is reduced to bankruptsy.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 06:41 | 3398692 11b40
11b40's picture

Well, that pretty much ducks the question. No facts to back up the bumper stickers?

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 07:27 | 3398733 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Not to suggest that republicans do not carry a serious burden in our current debacle, but just a cursory overview of what we face today is a DIRECT reflection of the progressive agenda. Everything we face from education to public entitlements to healthcare to social policies to immigration, ALL reflect progressive agendas. Yes, republicans have done little to stem the tide and many times been complicit in its advancement, but do not confuse actions with agendas. Republicans have foolishly believed that they could out Santa the left and have only proven themselves to be hypocrites. It hasn’t helped that most of these capitulations have been to benefit their supporters, but even though republicans have many times been traitorous to conservative principles, it seems that they have taken the role of speaking for us, much in the way Jesse Jackson has become the default spokesman for blacks. Just because we have some perverted priests buggering little boys does not disprove the existence of God, it actually proves it. The left will never let any belief to be propagated that demonstrates their policies do not work. They simply point at republicans that have done similar things, but less, as proof that enough is never enough. Forward!

 

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 13:12 | 3400070 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Thanks Oldwood, you get it.  Too many young twigs don't understand that many of the problems we face today are a direct result of an ongoing progressive agenda.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:05 | 3398206 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

What Ben and Barry are doing is a conservative's wet dream. Following the lead of the axis of non-evil Bush, Greenspan and Paulson, the rich are getting richer while the middle class is asked to pay more for the benefits to which it thinks it is "entitled."  Large banks remain effectively unregulated and are getting larger, while small banks and other small businesses are regulated to death to the benefit of big banks/big business which have record cash to spend into the economy.  

P.S. If this doesn't prove that trickle down/supply side economic policy is a cruel joke that causes laughter only among the top .1% and pain to everyone else, I don't know what does.  So by all means, let's have less regulation and less tax on the wealthy.  That will fix it.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:23 | 3398248 akak
akak's picture

Still gladly wallowing in the red team/blue team mudpuddle made for you by TPTB and the lamestream media, I see.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 00:46 | 3398385 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Right, that's what I was saying.  I wasn't responding to a poster who blamed Obama for our problems as if it matters who occupies the puppet house.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:24 | 3398255 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"What Ben and Barry are doing is a conservative's wet dream."  LoL.  Maybe to a consevative marxist.  You can't have any less regulation or less taxes on the 1%, under barry's new regime, look at his list of corporate buddies.  At the same time he fleeces the middle class with new regulations while increasing the National debt to historic levels.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 00:48 | 3398387 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Did you even read my post?  Read it again and then compare it to what you said.  You just don't like my conclusion about trickle down economics because it threatens your worldview.  Get over it.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 01:41 | 3398439 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I read your post. What I didn't like is your disinformation. Including your definiton of conservatives.  Who cares about trickle down economics or the progressive redistribution of wealth and social justice in the last 50 years, when the entire 100yr experiment of central planning is failing.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 01:45 | 3398445 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You speak in riddles my Red Team friend.  If you think that "social justice" is the problem, you have a long way to go.  Tell me again how the poor caused almost all of the wealth of this country to be transferred to the top .1%.  The very wealthy have convinced the somewhat successful that the poor are the problem, while they are raped.  Those violated sheep sound a lot like you.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 02:27 | 3398489 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

The wealth isn't transferred as much as it's diluted from the general population by the state.  The poor didn't cause anything, the socialists caused the present indebtedness by slowly growing the size of their Govts over decades. Now the systems they set up are unsustainable so they're resorting to stealing from the private middle class to feed the public sector.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 02:31 | 3398495 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

So by the socialists, you mean the Conservatives who were in power throughout most of that period?

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 02:48 | 3398512 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

No, he means the fucking liberals, who can't do anything except blame someone else for their failures.  They're never responsible for anything.  Except, maybe, personally shooting Osama Bin Laden - who's been dead of Renal failure since about 2005.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 06:57 | 3398700 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

I think he means the inflationists. But inflation doesn't matter, right? Just ask Mr Krugnuts. IIRC, it was the Chicago Boys that warned about the evils of monetary inflation and were basically ignored by BOTH political parties. And it was the Chicago Boys that warned us about "regulatory capture", as well. But, "we're all Keynesians, now". 

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 07:40 | 3398761 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Because we gave it to them! We have willing given our government the power to determine our future. A government run by the very same people who run the economy and industry. The people have made their choices. They have voted, they have allowed much of this to happen out of their own ignorance. We have allowed a society to believe that the government's primary role is to protect the weak and stupid, thereby promoting the weak and stupid. Rather than worrying about what you believe to be unfair wealth distribution, how about worrying about an unfair knowledge or education distribution. The anwer you seek to the problems we have is knowledge and a general unwillingness to accept that anyone or thing cares about you more than you do. The primary fraud has occurred in our education system where quantity has taken priority of quality and it is gauged more by ideology that anything that could actually be useful in a person's future, unless of course they seek a government position.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:03 | 3399293 sdmjake
sdmjake's picture

oops--sorry, i double dipped the ol funny pic link...

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:14 | 3398109 HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

That profits to employees chart is insane.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:39 | 3398280 AynRandFan
AynRandFan's picture

Fortune Magazine's mantra was "fire, fire, fire".  Been awhile since I read one.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 03:41 | 3398545 Seer
Seer's picture

It'll turn out OK, right? </sarc>

Economies of scale in reverse.  Just wait until things snap Back.  In order to manufacture with a bunch of robots you still have to have quite a bit of P&E in place.  When the consumer base continues to erode businesses will have no where else to cut- they' start at cutting production runs, but that'll eventually start jacking up the per-unit costs, thus killing "economies of scale."  Pretty soon that piece of iCrap will only be affordable by the few; until, that is, it becomes WAY too expensive to maintain the P&E for such low production numbers (think Tesla Motors).

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 08:34 | 3398876 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Really goes to show these "profits" are inflated and fake, as corporations take on more debt to buy up other companies, buyback shares to prop up their asset prices, and of course, the executives take a little off the top for their bonuses.......and most of these bonuses are funded in the form of government tax cuts (because that money HAS to go somewhere).

Personal income rose last month......why?  Annual raises.  And they are reported to be slightly up from 2.2% to 2.6% on average.  Why?  Because the corporations, and Fed, are scared.  They are scared that inflation is finally taking hold, and that they won't be able to keep up with it, and that the American consumer, the almighty "resilient" American consumer.....will just fucking tap.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:17 | 3398112 FinalCollapse
FinalCollapse's picture

Very good article.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:17 | 3398115 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

The S&P will bottom below 666

The S&P will bottom above 666

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:12 | 3398226 MILESCFA
MILESCFA's picture

NOTE: the table I pasted here is NOT in my preview, so if it does not appear, my numbers won't make sense. See the "BEARS" table in the instablog I mention below....

This is a table from "What's Your Decade, man?", an instablog I wrote on Seeking Alpha. For all those expecting a new low in this secular bear market, tell me which "down" marked the bottom for prior secular bears?

 

fyi: These numbers are based on monthly DJIA prices, the source I had available, and are "eyeball" up and down moves based on a price chart while looking at percentage moves.

 

It would appear that everyone but me expects the worse to come. From my perspective, the worse is here... what is "the worse" in a secular bear market is NOT simply the extent of the decline. Look at the table!

What makes a secular bear market so devistating is that "it mauls you, down AND UP!".

 

I lost my job as a buy side tech analyst in 2004 after I refused to accept that secular bear markets bounce "hard" (up). If you look at the stocks I covered, in hindishight, I was right. They've gone nowhere, but that didn't protect my job.

If you refuse to accept the "strength of bounce ups" in a secular bear, you're probably not going to protect your assets.

Oh, and the answer to the question - where did the market bottom in prior secular bears. In the 30s, it was the 47% move down, the 2nd out of 5 down moves. In the 70s, out of 6 down moves, the 3rd move down was the bottom. I think we've made our bottom, shown in the table as the 3rd move down, and it appears that we're still on our 3rd bounce back up. It would not surprise me to see at least two more big moves down but I doubt we'll see a new low. Regrettably, what will be "new" is the length of the bear, which all ready seems to be long in tooth.

In the 30s, a war helped "solve" the bear and in the 70s systemically high inflation caused a "severe" regime change. I think we;re "done with war" for the time being, so I would guess a "severe" regime change comes in 2016, but remember under Reagan, we still had a down leg when he instituted his policies, and then things turned. God help us, but I don't see "a real turn" until 2018 or so.

 

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 05:33 | 3398640 Seer
Seer's picture

" but I don't see "a real turn" until 2018 or so."

And what are you basing this forecast on?

I see NO growth ahead, ever (again).  I fully agree with Chris Martenson's notion that we've hit "peak prosperity."  Higher returns are only really possible in a firm growth environment.  And growth environments are linked to the ability to do more work, with "more work" being done by more (cheap) energy.  The globe is done with cheap energy, which means that everything points back/down.

ECONOMIES OF SCALE IN REVERSE (I won't stop hammering on the importance of this point!)

Nearly ALL of the upside of things over the course of the last 40 years has been more about gimmickry/trickery than in real growth-producing activities.  It shouldn't be of any surprise that this period initiated from the US's peak oil production and its "default" (dropping off the gold standard); this was from the world's overwhelming economic super power!

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:19 | 3398120 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

The only way to protect ourselves against the coming collapse is to sell precious metals, buy more stocks and hold more US dollars. In stocks we trust!

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:36 | 3398278 rehypothecator
rehypothecator's picture

Yep.  Stocks sure are awesome during collapses.  

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:21 | 3398121 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

So ... how long can the fed print $85 billion a month?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:41 | 3398135 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

... without causing enormous dislocations in asset and labor prices.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 00:28 | 3398353 Westcoastliberal
Westcoastliberal's picture

TFN, Angie.  Til Further Notice. Which is why the situation is FUBAR.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 05:41 | 3398644 Seer
Seer's picture

To be fair, they can't exactly spell it out lest that cause BIG shifts.  BUT... it doesn't really matter what we all do on the Titanic, it's still going down.

Rather than spending one's time trying to time the meltdown I'd think it better to spend it preparing for the real future...

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 08:34 | 3398880 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Forever because.....well, we have the drone and the guns.

The UK, Japan, and Southern Eurozone countries.....they on the other hand, kind of screwed.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:23 | 3398127 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Nice article, clearly showing why the hockey stick projections will fail. Because capitalism did not have a chance to punish the stupid and careless, and re-set the economy, there is no basis for a sustainable recovery.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:27 | 3398134 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

there is no longer any need to manage risk-why is there even a VIX index any more?

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:32 | 3398150 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

VIX is only a volatility index. It does NOT predict directions. 

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:48 | 3398171 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

no shit-the 2 go hand in hand

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 06:20 | 3398663 Seer
Seer's picture

If you understand the hockey-stick concept then you should know that it's not possible to have a "sustainable recovery." (one would have to qualify this in terms of [over] time, but then again using the word "sustainable" is pretty much an oxymoron)

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:23 | 3398128 mendigo
mendigo's picture

I believe that also made unsustainable cost reductions in staffing and inventory and in investment in the business, but I've been believing that for the last 20 years. I know for example that the toys that are offered now for kids are crap compared to what they were 10 years ago. Also the service and maintanance of inventory and the quality of product at Home depot gets worse every year. Cars get worse every year (for a while they were getting substially better each year) - my Lexus is crap compared to my old Nissan.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 22:24 | 3398129 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

" our bet"?

You "bet"

We just want to live.

FUCK YOU.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:00 | 3398203 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

<<The problem with this, as we have explained previously, is that higher "sales" is not a function of greater volumes of product sold - just simply more dollars spent for the same amount of goods.  This is more commonly known as "inflation.">>

 

Inflation...

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:32 | 3398269 AynRandFan
AynRandFan's picture

Today, NPR reported that the ISM number, though lower than expected, was a "very good report".

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 07:44 | 3398776 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Its always "better than expected" or "it could have been worse". At this point an astroid could be hurdling towards earth and they would be reporting on the positive impact to our economy of mineral importation. We are experiencing, almost word for word, every absurd theme ever printed in the future world fictions. At this rate I would not be shocked to see superman flying through the sky as it seems every supposed impossible fiction is coming to reality.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:08 | 3398216 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

Economic strength, eh? How many economist retards still think a half trillion trade deficit doesn't matter?

What you see right now is as good as it's ever going to get. Everything else is just BS.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:08 | 3398218 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Don't the banks have to pay the money they borrowed back to the Fed?

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 06:26 | 3398673 Seer
Seer's picture

Clearly you haven't been paying attention! </sarc>

Only three(?) choices:

1) A miracle occurs (e.g. construction boom on Mars) and banks can pay off the loans;

2) Banks get bailed out, again (until it can no longer happen);

3) Banks get taken over by a larger fish, which gets written off on the backs of the taxpayers (a slight variation on #2).

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:30 | 3398221 Cursive
Cursive's picture

Excellent post and charts. Really liking the analysis from Lance Roberts.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:10 | 3398224 enloe creek
enloe creek's picture

too much globalisation in the planning of corparations, the idea of a growing middle class in emerging markets making demand for production and fuel profits even as the U S market stagnates. the problems are international competition keeping margins low . demand worldwide can't rise in this environment

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 08:03 | 3398677 Seer
Seer's picture

" demand worldwide can't rise in this environment"

Demand will ultimately fail to rise because this is a finite planet.  Well, I suppose that we CAN have infinite demand, though at some point when people realize that there's no supply they'll quit "demanding."

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:24 | 3398249 Tuffmug
Tuffmug's picture

This will last a long time. There's still plenty to steal from the middle and lower class sheep and its being done stealthily enough via fraud, ZIRP, inflation, and perpetual deficits so they'll walk into the slaughter house smiling. Eventually all of our cities will go the way of Detroit and the prospects of our children and grandchildren will be those of the Rio street kids today.

Too many well conditioned sheep in this world and the sociopaths have taken firm control. Homo Sapiens will be exploited and supplanted by Homo Sociopathiens. The bleak worlds of 1984, The Time Machine, and Atlas Shruged are our future.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 08:18 | 3398833 Seer
Seer's picture

What, exactly, is it that TPTB want to "steal" from the "middle and lower class sheep?"  Their debt?

The System is being recalled.  I have NO idea whether they're racking it all up for some other "new game" or toe reset the existing game, but let's be clear here- the current System HAS failed.

"Eventually all of our cities will go the way of Detroit and the prospects of our children and grandchildren will be those of the Rio street kids today."

Cities are, by definition, unsustainable.  It takes WAY more to keep them going than they produce: this isn't a promising equation.

The majority of the world's population lives close to subsistence levels.  People tend to be repulsed by this word so they try and come up with all kinds of reasons why THEY themselves could not be one of "those."

I KNOW what the realities are, my wife is from Manila.  The US, due to a bounty of natural resources, was able to supply cities to such an extent as to keep them lifted up.  You never beat entropy, eventually IT (either simple entropy, OR, something like the next glacial period) wins.

Mon, 04/01/2013 - 23:34 | 3398265 AynRandFan
AynRandFan's picture

I just hope someone, anyone, in power in the U.S. understands the importance of our basic industrial companies before we lose another one.  Can't have a penthouse without a basement.

Repost:  And another thing!  The propaganda that "profits of a major corporation" are something to be despised has to stop.  I can sue a corporation, but I can't sue the government.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 06:39 | 3398691 Seer
Seer's picture

WTF does all this mean?

Ideological-induced BS if you ask me.

Our failings have to do with the FACT that we're on a finite planet (all planets, are, as they are spheres, finite).

Pro or Anti corporation is rah-rah shit.

The FACT is that BIG = FAIL.

BIG corporations maximize Jevons Paradox, they enable capitalism to be the best builders of our noose.  ANY system or ideology that is based upon the need for perpetual growth WILL fail.

BTW - Don't tell me to stop anything.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 08:31 | 3398865 Seer
Seer's picture

I missed this one:

" I can sue a corporation, but I can't sue the government."

REALLY?  What country are you in?  It's not only POSSIBLE in the US, but it happens a LOT: which tends to tack on costs to government operations.

Here's a nice example:

Sailors sue government over retention board dismissals

http://www.stripes.com/news/sailors-sue-government-over-retention-board-...

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 00:26 | 3398350 Westcoastliberal
Westcoastliberal's picture

Mr Roberts, while I appreciate the lengths you went to in proving your point, hasn't Bernanke admitted he thinks it's all about the market and the economy will follow?  The admin really has done nothing to improve the economy, all the assist has been market side.  So of course there's a "disconnect".  Obama is even quoted as saying he thinks the high unemployment rate is "natural" and since he thinks it's caused by "productivity gains" then there's not much can be done about it.

That's what these nitwits really believe.  They live in an insular, anything for the 1% and the rest be damned, world.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 08:31 | 3398710 Seer
Seer's picture

"Obama is even quoted as saying he thinks the high unemployment rate is "natural" and since he thinks it's caused by "productivity gains" then there's not much can be done about it."

Obviously this is a communist/socialist perspective! </sarc>

Not pretending to KNOW what's in someone's head, and not intending to defend any of TPTB's puppets, but there IS a logical connection with what he's saying if you qualify it.

The devil is hiding here via the omission of WHAT is causing the "productivity gains."  "Production" can ONLY occur via humans OR robots/automation*.

* Any that doesn't occur naturally (such as nature is producing oil [at a VERY slow pace]).

The reason why we don't engage in this discussion?  The next question would be WHY robot/automation over humans?  The answer would be that it's done to keep product prices low (need robots to create iCrap).  The circular function would start to appear as we continued the questioning.  Cut jobs to make things cheaper so that people who are not employed could buy the products?  Um... no.  This is all to ensure that the 1% can obtain stuff; for them, however, this is problematic as this is a path of "economies of scale in reverse"- without all the junk consumers out there (think of the importance of junk mail to USPS) the 1% would have to pay more, a LOT more due to lower production numbers.

Again, I won't try to state what others believe (as I would not want them trying to do the same with me).  I go by system logic and physics.  The bottom line for all is that we've hit, as Chris Martenson puts it, "peak prosperity."  In the face of nature it matters little what the "1%" (or the 100%) believe, nature is going to do what nature does, and anything that humans do that is not sustainable per nature's laws WILL  eventually cease.  Our hockey-puck growth and consumption, which has set up the "positive" aspects of "economies of scale," has a shelf life.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 00:32 | 3398361 dunce
dunce's picture

The article mentions population growth being related to an expanding economy, but that is in historically  normal times. our demographics are a design for disaster. Thanks to birth control and abortion, our most economically productive people are not reproducing. Our least economically productive people are mostly just producing more burdens on society. Some go on to be millionaires in the entertainment industry, but bread and circuses are not a viable long term plan for a country.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 07:53 | 3398743 Seer
Seer's picture

"Thanks to birth control and abortion, our most economically productive people are not reproducing."

"Our least economically productive people are mostly just producing more burdens on society."

Cognitive dissonance much?

It's that America is God's nation thing, isn't it?

Maybe those who are most productive are TOO busy being "productive" to be fucking a lot?

I could also say that this could hold true with gays/lesbians (their not reproducing means that they're "economically productive"), but I'm sure that that isn't what you're referring to (because these people couldn't possibly be "productive," no siree!).

PERPETUAL GROWTH ON A FINITE PLANET IS NOT POSSIBLE.  It does NOT matter whether the "non productive" or the "productive" try this, it WILL ALWAYS LEAD TO FAILURE/COLLAPSE!

Based on our "economic" measurements the "most economically productive people" have been our bankers.  Have you looked at their birth rates, their abortion and birth control rates?

"The article mentions population growth being related to an expanding economy, but that is in historically  normal times."

Your violation of logic is just plain painful!

What the fuck is "historically normal times" mean?

Is history normal or not?

Are you trying to say "historical average?"  If so, please provide the statistics and state the actual span of time that they cover.

Expansion = surplus, and surplus means growth, and growth means more consumption by humans.  WTF would humans continue to over-produce surplus if it wasn't to CONSUME it (in which case it couldn't exactly BE "surplus," unless, of course, there were deficiencies, which is when the "surpluses" would be consumed)?

Since we cannot know the future enough to say with certainty how much we can produce in any particular year (though we actually DO do a pretty good job at guessing- what other animal can forecast like humans can?) we generally miss the mark, over or under.  As I note, we cannot perpetually go over the mark (it doesn't make sense; AND, since this is a finite planet our surpluses would eventually not have a place to be stored!).  Underages WILL, therefore, occur, and WILL bring about hardships.  Hardship sucks, but to lash out at everything, blaming everything because an underage occurs is to say that underages shouldn't happen, and that's ENTIRELY illogical/impossible.

" our demographics are a design for disaster."

No clue what you mean by "design," but, yes, demographics WILL kill the System, because the System HAS to grow, and, well, old people don't make new people very well.  If you want to change this balance then you might want to see Logan's Run for a glimpse of one possible way to deal with this.  I'll defer to you to be your own guide as to whether killing the System is good or not.

All things grow and then die.  I sense you're uncomfortable with the notion of death.  Can't help you there: perhaps seek advice from those that have programmed you.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 04:59 | 3398623 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Good article.

It is why I believe the IRS will emcpirage Enron accounting this year. Banksters do not care at this point. They have lost and must open the doors of fraud to non-financial corporations to continue as DHS makes final preparations and so that secret deal, that Obama promised Putin last year for after his re-election, is able to unfold.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 07:41 | 3398766 Seer
Seer's picture

" final preparations and so that secret deal, that Obama promised Putin last year for after his re-election, is able to unfold."

WTF?

For fucks' sake, people, perpetual growth on a finite planet is NOT possible.  SOMEONE is going to be sitting on the throne when we discover the realities of this fact; and That SOMEONE isn't responsible for consequence/outcome of the entire human paradigm of "go forth and multiply."

Obama and Putin are PLAYING the game.  They didn't DESIGN the game (see "God," "Mother Nature," "Space Aliens," "The Flying Spaghetti Monster," whatever).

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 06:35 | 3398685 CDNX fan
CDNX fan's picture

"NEVER underestimate the replacement power of stocks within an inflationary spiral."

 

That's why all the deli's in Manhattan are crammed while restaurants in Des Moines are empty.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 07:18 | 3398724 ZZR600
ZZR600's picture
No significant outflow of funds from Slovenia, says central banker. Is this a sign of disconnecting from reality? Why anyone would keep money in a third tier EU country is beyone me.....

We are monitoring the [deposit] flows on a daily basis but have not registered significant moves. The way the situation in Cyprus was being solved did not influence the confidence of our depositors.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 08:21 | 3398780 Seer
Seer's picture

If you don't register something then it's not/can't be a problem, right? </sarc>

Anyone recall the Dave Barry story about the little league baseball player/kid?  The kid was standing in the outfield praying that the ball wouldn't get hit to him.  The Slovenian central banker is That kid.

The last nation standing is the one where its "leader" is able to convince the populace that their System isn't a Ponzi.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 08:48 | 3398918 yogibear
yogibear's picture

It's 1.6 billion plus rounds for you, courtesy of the DHS, if you get hostile muppets!!

The police goons will have no problem beating and shooting the muppets.

 

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