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Guest Post: What Every Libertarian Should Know About Bitcoin
Submitted by Michael Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,
Tom Woods Talks Bitcoin... Fantastic Interview
Soon, whether via Bitcoin or whatever comes next, it will be possible to strip banking away from bankers, and money away from governments.
From a recent article in the Spectator titled “How Bitcoin Could Destroy the State”
Support for Bitcoin amongst Austrian economists is growing by they day and in this interview, the highly admired and respected Tom Woods, discusses Bitcoin with Erik Voorhees of Bitinstant (a popular, rapid way of converting fiat into BTC). This interview very poignantly addresses many of the layperson’s concerns about it that I have heard over the past several months. Remember, despite the price rise, Ben Bernanke is still creating the equivalent of 75 Bitcoin markets every month with his money printing.
This worth every single minute of your time.
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"you can get paid directly in bitcoin for products and services.... and it is not tracked / not taxed.....when you use bitcoins to purchase something, the IRS doesn't know your buying silver with your bitcoins, the ATF doesn't know you're buying an AR-15, the DEA doesn't know you're buying a joint or a box of fine cuban cigars."
OK, so I am required to believe that (1) governments will be happy to accept the existence of such a system, and (2) the design of the system is foolproof to the extent that no government can do anything to stop it.
My suspension of disbelief doesn't extend that far.
no, you are not required to belive that, and it really doesn't matter whether or not you do believe it.
today, bitcoin works, and i am happy that it's here for me to use.
i don't care to speculate about possible future outcomes - i'm not storing wealth in bitcoins.
"I am not concerned as much of the return ON my money as I am the RETURN of my money". Will Rogers 1929
Interesting. The government will outlaw it, though.
It's of the system - it's just pre-governement at the moment. Soon.
The US government doesn't have to outlaw it to make BTC useless. Look at offshore accounts as the leading example.
First, they'll require you to report on your own use just as they do now with offshore accounts.
Second, they will track your use, just like all jurisdictions now have the ability to track bittorrent file-sharing and as a result they make many arrests.
Third, if the rest of the world is behind, no one will want to deal BTC with a US citizen so as to avoid the long reach of the US government.
I don't think they will outlaw it. I think they will regulate it.
"How Bitcoin could destroy the state" and bankers presumably.
Well I guess we can all expect one hell of a reaction from the state.
I'll just watch, thanks.
So far, bitcoin is falling into the instant gratification bucket -- the one we know so well -- and in this case we think we can shuffle right past that part that is a corrupt infrastructure, of the human kind.
As if our "currency" is the problem...
The bitcoin mania shows We don't really have a clue.
Actually bitcoin shows that many people can't grasp abstract concepts. Its okay, we'll be waiting for you when your funny gov't money falls apart.
Thanks for the offer, but don't wait for me...
I'd like the currency to be as far away from "abstract" as possible.
What happens when a programmer has a few minutes with big blue or some other super computer.
he'd be able to mine bitcoins faster than you would at home with your PC.
It's already no longer possible to mine Bitcoins with a common PC. If someone uses Deep Thought to mine Bitcoins the diffulty will eventually increase exponentially and you'd need that new super computer called Earth to mine.
Which means that the US gov with its vast computing resources could put a stop to effective bitcoin mining in next to no time at all.
+1 for the HHGttG reference
I will not be trading in my stack of silver for buttcoins, for it's somewhere at the bottom of a lake, somewhere.
"Soon, oh soon, the time..."
What a load of bullshit (horseshit?) - how will you strip banking, if you need to convert to and from bitcoins - and has any bitcoin supporter ever tried (let succeeded) converting all their savings to bitcoins? You can't just freely trade any amount of currency you want/need - how's that for capitals control?
If everyone accepted Bitcoin or even more likely, gave discounts for using Bitcoin, (pretty impossible to tax imo, there's the incentive right there), why would you ever want to convert it into currency???
Same could be said for gold could it not?
What I find interesting most about Bitcoin is that it is gaining mind share.
Gaining mindshare with whom? I'd say less than 1% of the population has even heard of Bitcoin and out of that maybe 1% actually owns a part of it.
Yeah you're right, stories on major german publications, international shows, BBC, CNBC, Bloomberg... nobody knows what bitcoin is.
If they live in the amazon I guess.
If...
If everyone was wise, as well, we wouldn't need any alternative currency, as we wouldn't be in this situation, to start with...
But why should anyone accept a (supposedly democratic) currency they didn't had any say about, punishes late adopters (whether for not believing in it, or simply not being aware or capable to get them - heck, not being born yet)?
Put it this way: imagine the Euro had been brought on the market the same way bitcoins are being - gradually and floating against the old currencies - so, depending on when you swapped, you'd get more or less of them, and weeks, months later, you could just get half, a third, maybe just a tenth for the old money. On top of that, you couldn't just swap all your money at once to take advantage of early price, because someone just implemented capital control to prevent you from just doing that. What would've you think of that, and what should everyone think?
Why did all those farao's, kings and Rothschilds mine gold and keep it in a vault before I was even born. I didn't get a chance to buy when there was a vast abundance of it and the price was cheap.
Why couldn't I buy oil for 20 bux/barrel? Oh right I wasn't born yet.
BOO FUCKING HOO!
BOO? What you're saying is bitcoins aren't a trading currency, after all, but just another (speculative) hoarding commodity, then (and yeah, I got gold - and ain't giving up on it for trading, either)... big fucking (old) news, btw...
question your assumptions.
several of my vendors currently accept gold as payment, i don't need to convert it to fiat to spend it.
when bitcoin takes hold, or even if it's an offspring of bitcoin, it will work likewise.
Problem with gold is it's too costly for ordinary daily shopping; problem with bitcoins is there isn't enough for anything other than just that (eg: try getting tens/hundreds of thousand in bitcoins - now multiply that by thousands, millions of people).
"When bitcoins take over the world" - Sounds like a plan... and we know what's the usual fate of those (eg: freedom and democracy).
An offspring would mean bitcoins would end up losing all value.
i never stated: "When bitcoins take over the world"
dont ascribe such a comment to me, it's not accurate or honest.
"An offspring would mean bitcoins would end up losing all value."
false. bitcoin already has several offspring. the best known is probably litecoin.
I was just interpreting your comment, since making it would imply a de facto (relative) take over (by storm or calmly), at least.
It has - I counted about a dozen of them (I could've missed a few, who knows?)... No one ever even mentions them, symptomatically. Symptomatically as well, their value reflects that also run status, too.
anderson howe
How many bitcoins does it take to change a lightbulb?
Far fewer than silver coins unfortunately.
Sersiouly, I thought 1 oz silver would surely be over $100 by now when I started buying silver coins. And I thought I basically lost the little money I had put into bicoins when it plunged to $4.00 or so. This tells me how bad I am as an investor/spculator. That's why I am hanging on to my bitcoins. (I think the bitcoin market may collapse.)
There it is...
we're not going to invent a new currency when its roots are speculation, treated as such, neglecting the underlying issues, and somehow-when-it's-convenient forgetting that Control wins the day...
most importantly, the Control structure in place does not give a damn about "currency" -- it seeks to retain control -- and all that that entails.
I have been an early adopter all my life. When I put my money into bitcoins (it was a little while ago), hardly anyone knew about it.
Early adopter is a rather shitty role, you end up wasting a lot of money and experiencing many disappointments. But I am too curious. And I take comfort in the knowledge we serve some purpose. Without early adopters, risking losses and ridicules, nothing new and good gets a chance. So, I have been ridculed about my PM obsession for years. And now I am an idiot bitcoin holder, too.
What you're implying is what I think about it - it's pretty much entirely a speculators tool: early adopters take a risk hoping they'll profit immensely from growth in market value, just like with any other bubble. That's not what a sound currency is supposed to be, imv (ie: stable value).
Lets see what my libertarian self doesn't like about bitcoin?
Globally exchanged
Electronic in nature
Created of unknown origin
Fiat of course, of course, of course
No national affiliation, at all, anywhere
Just who can assure me that Bitcoin is not the new global currency that has been so anxiously awaited? My 1950's issue Social Security card state right across the top, " Not for Identification Purposes ". That slid down the slippery slope into something completely denied at initiation.
What can possibly assure the Bitcoin phenomena is different and won't be co-oped to nefarious purpose?
Capital control: it's already being implemented within it - you can't just exchange whatever amount you want/need; it's arbitrarily controlled for you.
"arbitrarily controlled "
now there are 2 words that instill confidence and faith!!
again, go drop a bitcoin on your toe....
Bitcoin = Ponzi scheme. Just like that '100 years of natural gas' and Bre-X.
Suckers born every minute.
Yeah steve, but you have to admit the process is entertaining, Yes? At least the BC thing.
As for the gas, most of that is emitted by the promoters.
Bitcon is worse than fiat. So some geek can buy a bitminer processor for $1600 and make a bitcon worth $101! Wow what a great idea.
Wait. Aren't you the same guy saying it's all too easy to create bitcoins? So which is it?
"Jeff Garzik has just received the first ASIC mining computer to hit the consumer market, and has confirmed on Bitcoin IRC that the machine functions as expected. Even after Avalon announced that they had shipped their ASICs out to customers one and a half weeks ago, many continued to doubt Avalon’s claims, but now the Bitcoin community can finally rest easy knowing that the long-awaited ASICs are indeed real.
Word from Garzik first came out a few hours ago, when he wrote a blog post confirming that he received the package and showing off a few pictures of the device and its packaging. An hour later Garzik followed up with another post, detailing the hardware’s modularity and providing a brief three sentence hardware review: “No wifi antenna included. No paperwork or instructions. Power cable is for Chinese “I-SHENG” power outlets, not American. Easy oversights if someone is rushing to ship it, I suppose ” Fortunately, Avalon founder Yifu Guo confirms, the rest of Avalon’s customers will get a standard US power cable as expected.
Now, only several minutes ago, Garzik followed up with a message on Bitcoin IRC announcing the news that Bitcoin enthusiasts everywhere have all been waiting for: “mining!”, soon followed by a statistic: the machine’s average hashrate is 68252.65 MH/s. This is about thirteen percent higherthan the 60 GH/s that Avalon had originally promised, and with the state of the Bitcoin network as it currently is is no small sum; given the current total network hashrate of 22000 GH/s, Garzik will be able to earn an average of about $240 per day. Avalon’s remaining customers will also be able to enjoy highly lucrative rewards, although not quite as extreme; once all of Avalon’s 20 TH/s are added into the picture, each individual ASIC will earn about $120 per day (paying for itself in slightly under two weeks), although revenues will decrease further when Butterfly Labs’ customers get their hands on their own ASICs – an event which, given Butterfly Labs’ current shipping projections is likely to occur around the beginning of March."
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/working-avalon-asic-confirmed/
Does he accept bitcoins? Produced by his own machines?
In other words, a machine that "prints" money to pay for itself and then profit... and no computer geek finds a problem in that kind of thinking?
Hint: the coins have a limited supply so the later entrants will have a hard time "mining"...
IT IS CALLED A PYRAMID SCHEME, FOOLS!
like the lottery, it's a tax on those who are bad at maths.
to know the answer, you'd need to know how many of these units are going to be mining, and when they start operations, to know how long for the machine to pay for itself and start earning a profit, if ever.
so you never drill for oil since you can't drill forever??
what the fuck happened to the brains on this board?
no, fool.
you never drill for oil without first figuring out whether the $millions you are investing in an oil well will come back to you, and how quickly.
in this case the $1300 for a butterfly labs ASIC bitcoin miner that we were discussing may or may not be a worthwhile investment, i haven't really looked into it myself.
you seem to have a big mouth - what's your opinion on this issue, then?
or do you have one?
i suspect you were quick to post without bothering to read back to see what this sub-thread was about.
I completely know what is going on, and you mentioning butterfly instead of avalon shows you don't
check up on amount of pre-sales and delivery rates between the two and you'll see why avalons, right now, are cheap at any price
but i doubt you would give me a finder's fee or any thanks, just more snark
Bitcoin is for those who are too lazy to buy physical precious metals.
I have bought both. And I can tell you buying PMs is much, much easier than buying bitcoins.
I'm glad I'm not the only one noting the irony of claiming bitcoin has "no transaction cost" while BitInstant charges 3.99% to buy them.
that is the cost of getting into the party.. and it will only get worse. Once you are in, there is no cost
Bitcoin is the number of the beast. Pass it on...
Very smooth.
Bit coin does not meet the definition of money. It is not the most marketable commodity. However, it does have some utility which gives it value to some people.
Do you know what sucks about bitcoin? I was doing work for a guy for 2 bitcoins per hour. Then all this crap has hit and my boss told me that now I only get a fraction of a bitcoin for each hour. instead of getting paid 80 bitcoins a week, I am now getting paid 10 bitcoins. The problem is that i signed my lease for 20 bitcoins a month. And the landlord says i am out on my butt if i can't come up with the full amount. Car guys saying they will be coming for the car in the next few days unless i come up with that 10 bitcoins per month. Now if i work 24 hours a day I can't even make my commitments. Bitcoins suck as far as i am concerned. Hopefully google will soon come out with an alternative.
stop yer gritching, other things that cost less now
Typical case of a deflation (in bitcoins). I wonder if anyone thought this point thru.
I love me some deflation
Me too, for a change.
Maybe a currency like bitcoin, but designed to inflate at 1% per day?
So quit working for this guy, a fraction of a bit coin an hour is bullshit!
Same thing happened to me with Canadian dollars. I told my employer they were off their rocker trying to pay me the same rate as last year what with inflation and all. They said what inflation, core CPI is pretty much unchanged. I said go catch the short bus to fuckoffity land, everyone knows core CPI is rigged! They wised up and gave me an 8% increase.
Don't buy shit you cant afford.
Be sure and take physical possession. Put 'em on a thumb drive and lose it in the swamp!
so you can't spend the currency or you lose value of appreciation
which makes bitcoin a speculation
no?
Hmmmm....this might lead to the mark of the beast...the only way I can see of the elite shutting this down.
Bitcoin reminds me of the virtual currencies initially used in online role playing games. People would earn virtual gold for performing quests. It worked at first, but there was no sink for the currency to disappear into. Despite the slow rate of creation the world would become overwhelmed with coin. In time folks would realize it had no value, and would resort to direct barter.
Bitcoin has no upper limit to its creation. It is controled by entities that have their own agenda, and unless they are somehow different from the rest of mankind will manipulate the market for their own gain. But worse than that, it has the same fault of all fiat currency (and I do not need a lecture on how it is not fiat) in that it has no intrinsic value. I am expected to exchange true assets for some imaginary kind of money...
But here is one for you... has anyone considered how bitcoin will fare in the face of an EMP attack... :)
Probably about as well as radioactive gold would.
"Bitcoin has no upper limit to its creation."
Wrong, Bitcoin's upper limit is 21 million. It is provable by looking at the source code. Further, each bit coin is divisible to eight decimal places.
"It is controled by entities that have their own agenda, and unless they are somehow different from the rest of mankind will manipulate the market for their own gain."
Wrong, it is distributed and open source, no one can control it, short of shutting off the internet, (and by that act, any other forms of online or networked payment as well)
"But worse than that, it has the same fault of all fiat currency (and I do not need a lecture on how it is not fiat) in that it has no intrinsic value. I am expected to exchange true assets for some imaginary kind of money"
Yes, you are correct! It will only have value that people give it. Does a paper US dollar have intrinsic value? The risk is that it is a fad and that it just goes away or gets replaced by something better and that its real purchasing power decreases. I honestly don't know how it will play out
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths
"Does a paper US dollar have intrinsic value?"
and therein lies the problem, faith...
open source, electronic, fiat....
where's the faith?
Lots of promoters sell'n but I ain't get'n it, don't expect I will either.
Same could be asked of gold. Yes it does, whereas paper or bit coins do not. Gold can be forged, harder to transport, easier to confiscate, harder to divide. Diversify! Bitcoin is one more way.
go drop a bitcoin on your toe
Then I stand corrected... I should know better then to assert things I do not know with absolute certainty... And it is interesting to note they could be dl onto transferable memory... But the thought of ultimately owning nothing is one I can't get past. I have the same problem with the limited fiat I keep on hand to pay those folks who are still willing to take it...
On the other hand it took me years to switch from vinyl to CDs, and I am still not entirely sold...
"Does a paper US dollar have intrinsic value?"
Why yes, insofar as the govt. accepts it in payment of taxes.
doublepost
"How survive an EMP attack"
Just fine if you stored it on a cd rom or on a usb key placed in an old microwave oven or other type of faraday cage. The bit coins that do survive should in theory see their value increase.
After reading this thread, it is safe to say that 99% of ZH readers not only love The Walking Dead, they dream everynight to live there
"Bitcoin has no upper limit to its creation."
absoultely not true.
maximum possible number of bitcoins in existence is 21 million.
read the FAQ
Awesome post Tyler.
I highly respect Tom Woods and I love his books.
Erik Voorheis is also an impressive guy with some serious libertarian credentials. I posted a link above to one of his blogs.
Anyway for those who want to put there money where their mouth is feelfree to check out http://betsofbitco.in/ In particular this "mania" bet. http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1086 If you think BTC is in mania phase then go get rich betting on its collapse.
Btw instead of bitching and watching the gold price be manipulated sideways, you could've bought a few BTC when Tyler first posted on the topic. The price was $18 I believe. Wtf is your problem with some speculation, mania or not,..... Cowards. No one argues that gold and silver spectacularly fill a certain role, ie. central banker punching bag.
If you can't figure out bitcoin.... Ask the grandkids for help.
B(sh)itcoin is no diff than those penny stocks that go up 1000% then crash and delist.
Mark my words.
except it will not delist, it will recover, and in 2-3 years time, will go into another mania.
It may die out too, but I think for now it's 2 years ahead of the alternatives so it can't happen suddenly
you can be sure the intell.igen.ce com unity is reading, analyzing and distributing this post to their corporation. more and more headlines about bitc/ coin as we approach the reee se t.
Maybe so.... "But I am Sparticus"
You gonna be the rat in the prisoners dilemna? Or do you have a spine?
This veteran will gladly sacrifice for liberty,..... Sure beats dying for oil so half these cowards can live it up.
I can mint 100 Bitcoins an hour on my old Atari 800
It had a special video chip that can outmip anything today.
I'll let mine go for only 1000 Bitcoins.
What is the percentage of people who put money in Bitcoin to use for commerce vs the percentage hoping to turn an investment worth X into an investment worth XXX?
Bitcoin is no different than a momo stock. Everyone thinks they are going to get rich until they guy pumping the stock decides to sell.
Much of the run to $100 per Bitcoin is anticipation by speculators that there will be someone else willing to pay more to move their money. That hasn't happened. How long until the speculators figure out there isn't a greater fool?
Capital controls begets capital flight. I have a decent amount of confidence that the surge in bitcoin, if not caused by, then amplified significantly by run away inflation and capital control concerns throughout Latin America, Europe and Asia. You do not need to hold it long, you just need it long enough to get your money out of the country. While that is not the intended purpose, I suspect it is currently a major driver for demand right now, and consequently, a/the major driver in price.
Let's see. We have 3 or 4 really major merchants currently accepting bitcoin.
Some of those buying might be wagering on the likelihood that say, a few more of the millions of merchants, employers, and other economic participants worldwide turn to this honest and practical form of money.
I wonder the same thing. Except wordpress accepts BTC. So does reddit. My own business colonialinntheglen.com accepts it. The BTC economy is growing.
How are you intelligent enough to read zerohedge yet not know that BTC is accepted by many businesses?
I guess a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.
Sure they accept it, and knock down old ladies as they run to convert the crap into real dollars.
dafuq are you going to buy on reddit...? reddit gold? rofl.
Bitcoin is not a currency. It is a Proxy, for safekeeping from money printing and for low cost transaction. Only 10.5M bitcoin in the world, never more than 21.5M-ish
http://bestbitcoinsites.wordpress.com
It is a currency but not really money
The problem as I see it is that every transaction gets logged into one giant blockchain. Eventually, needing a 10TB hard drive just to store your bitcoin wallet gets to be a pain in the ass.
Actually, the problem I find right now is I can't find a decent wallet program. The original client forces you to pay a 1% transaction fee AND must sync the whole blockchain. Other clients either require Java, which is a massive security hole I refuse to reinstall, or have other severe security limits.
In the long run, sure, there are definitely a lot of technical issues that will need to be resolved as far as the fundemental protocol goes.
I'm running bitcoin-qt version 0.8. Transaction fee is optional, and you can set it to whatever you want, including 0. Synching the block chain is still not a problem, other the long wait the first time.
Double post
You don't have to keep the block chain on your device, you can call it remotely if you can't afford the space (10GB now, 0.1% of 10TB)..
There's a nice solution to this called the free market. If bitcoin ever approaches limits of scalability, transaction fees will simple rise a little from the present $0.002 or so.
There are other solutions like pruning the blockchain, compression, and splitting it into n forks.
All the T-Rex PM stack-a-lackers getting their panties in a bunch. The Bitcoin rally post Cyprus was supposed to be Gold and Silver but they just lay there like the impractical fat dogs in the sun. Yer Yer it may end in tears with Bitcoins but this current crisis show how useless Gold n Silver are . Manipulated....... manipulate this
Edible gold son, edible gold.
yeah, i'm going to take investment advice from some bloke who can't figure out to hit the save button once.
All the T-Rex PM stack-a-lackers getting their panties in a bunch. The Bitcoin rally post Cyprus was supposed to be Gold and Silver but they just lay there like the impractical fat dogs in the sun. Yer Yer it may end in tears with Bitcoins but this current crisis show how useless Gold n Silver are . Manipulated....... manipulate this
"Tom Woods, discusses Bitcoin with Erik Voorhees of Bitinstant (a popular, rapid way of converting fiat into BTC) ..."
A rapid way of converting fiat into thin air. Like depositing money in a Cypriot bank ?
@Kiss My Iceland
How can someone take your bitcoins if you are the bank? Or are you just another FUD-spewing technophobe?
He's an idiot, but he thinks it's hard to notice so he had to make his comment bold...
Bitcoin is an excellent way to transfer value. It is hard to tell if it is a good store of value. I do not think so. I think it is going through its tulip phase.
Let us assume that something along the lines of Lucifier's Hammer has occurred (semi-end-of-world).
Imagine 3 people coming to you requesting food, medicine, whatever.
I suspect most people will choose to "trade" with the party with the gold, followed by the FRNs and lastly the digital currency not at all.
Of course, the smart man would shoot all three, keep everything, and turn the remains into soylent green.
If you ever do need to trade in this situation bring skills to the table. Then the other party will generally not shoot or eat you.
not even close... have you realized that it is basically on a barter level where there is no tax anywhere in sight?
the only hurdle is the exchange from fiat into bitcoins.. and that is where all the pain is. The quicker you get some skin in the game now the better off you will be.
I think that if the banksters demolished Iraq and Libya partly because they were going to use their own monetary systems that the banksters will spend many trillions if necessary to stop BitCoin, ZeroCoin and the entire F'n Internet if necessary. Trouble is that they are running out of funds very quickly at this point and as I believe there is a future, timing will be critical for BitCoin to bring humankind to the next level of consciousness necessary to transcend Corporatism and Oligarchs. It has been thousands of years of horrendous destruction supporting the primitive social systems and the time has come where we as a species either get over the banksters, elite, oligarchs, corporatism and statism or F'kn die out. The idividual must be unbound so that their cumulative morality becomes part of the systme. A virtual currency has that potential.
There is a season...
Fuck bitcoin.
I am today starting a new Virtual Currency.
I am calling it MonkeyDung(tm)
It's the dried feces of a rare spider monkey, only 500 lbs of it can be produced a year.
Please, no special requests from the gallery, fcfs.
Too late, sperm whales beat you to it. And its real too boot!
"Sperm whale poop, just a pound of it could potentially net you as much as $10,000."
It is most unfortunate that Homeland Security, CIA, NSA nor FBI can track Bitcoin purchase nor sale transactions. Why it is completly safe and secure and there is no known way to determine who has bitcoins or what they are used for. Therefore, we must endevor to make our current currency meaningful and trustworthy as this is our only hope of not losing control of our current money system to Bitcoin.
Bitcoins sole purpose is to compile the worlds BIGGEST Sucker list for quick resale.
What is to know about BTC? That FinCen ends up on your ass?
Meanwhile, Operation Shitload of MOAR Silver Dimes has now received it's first shipment from APMEX. It took a few hours but they are now sorted and I, or someone, received 11 more rarer dates/mintages out of this batch of CommuVelt dimes. Hell, there was even a Mercury dime in there, or as akak prefers to call them, Winged Liberty Head dimes. I spotted that one right away when I cracked open that roll. It's a 1916-P and it's a slider but I respect those coins. I am happy about that because now I can stare at it and wonder about it's monetary history.
I made the sorting process into a family event and we all teamed together to get the basic sorting done. The family had a great time actually. How cool is that? The two year old male is not much help mind you so he is on numismatic probation and gets only a zinc penny for now.
I only found three dimes out of this batch that I deemed needed cleaning which is not bad. I do not like cleaning coins as a rule but I can't have a bunch of shit slver that looks like that or it will infest my good stuff with it's sulfurous attitude.(segregated sell box for those) Two of the three cleaned up pretty well but the third one is a special snowflake. I sat and stared at it for a while and asked myself "what the fuck happened here"? That coin had to have went through a house or car fire of some sort because well...it went through a fire. That one is still sitting in the EZ clean. We lost that one I am afraid. I estimate it to be MS-70: Melt State 70. No big deal because it was 54-P. Still though.
Generally speaking though, APMEX did not fuck me as hard this time although I think they might have been fucking WITH me. There were a few S's in this batch at least.
The next shipment is coming in from LC coins. I was not fast enough on the 1955-S roll and that one walked but I did get the 1955 P's and D's. I called them and replaced the 55-s with some 58-P and got a ten percent off the entire order. That's huge! The folks at LC coin seem to be pretty cool. These are going to be Brilliant Uncirculated which is not technically a coin grade but they should not be fucked with too much. I am going to make this a family event too. This time we will not be searching dates and mint marks but rather looking at strike quality, scratches or rim dents.
If LC sends me something good I will let you all know. I sure hope they do because this order is larger than my APMEX order.
Peace
A long but ignorant post.
FinCEN doesn't have any rules against the use of bitcoin.
It disallows exchanges and mining, but even that is limited to the tyrannical US. Conclusion: who gives a shit.
Wow. Are you another poser? To rip a guy buying silver dimes is about tantamount to being a complete fucking idiot. I am stunned that you even wrote what you did. I have to ask, who the fuck are you? Let's go look shall we. 414 error. Fuck you asshole.
Your post earned your fucking ass a red arrow.(only my second red arrow ever on ZH so you earned it) Don't even bother to reply to me because I will take you apart. What the fuck does a douchebag like you even care about BTC for? You SOUND like you ARE FinCEN. I will give you credit for spelling it correctly but it ends there.
They shall not pass? YOU do not pass. What happened?
There, is that a short enough explanation for you now?
Stupid fuck.
I'm going to start calling Bitcoin "home wrecker" because of how it fucks up our happy ZH household.
Everyone.......on both sides of the Bitcoin fence..............makes excellent points regarding the pros and cons of Bitcoin. I think, though, that the anti-Bitcoin crowd gets stuck in a bit of analysis-paralysis and the pro-Bitcoin crowd gets caught up in the emotional "fuck the Fed" high it gives you. Both sides are understandable and I'm thankful for the argument because it helps me dabble in the Bitcoin world without losing any sleep. Buy a bitcoin, hold it, watch it double, buy Ag at 50% off, rinse, repeat.
What Bitcoin really is is a message to TPTB that more and more people understand that currency isn't the only money and micro-economies are typically better than macro. If they stop Bitcoin, so what, the genie is out of the bottle.
It's not about the Bitcoin, it's the message that Bitcoin sends.
You don't have to side with bitcoin - but you better be in precious metals, because to hold any currency that isn't either is a huge mistake.
Only hold money in a banking system that you are willing to lose - I'm sure the Cypriots understand that particular lesson.
the thing I see possibly happening is false story or made up faailure crash type event . there have been flash crashes which did not do harm long term so in the event a serious publicity attack occurs and bitcoin survives then the popularity will increase a d users will be more secure
the indestructability of bitcoin will be the gun at the starting gate for btc
people getting their wallets robbed would be amplified.. you may see higher security on wallets, perhaps the two auth methods..
there should be a swoon in price soon as the ramp up of ASIC will dump a lot of coins in the next 3-6 months but then of course get a lot harder to mine.. that and fiats showing their true colors so the rebound would be swift..
probably the last BTFD opportunity when that happens
The PROMISE is that Bitcoin will not create more than X bitcoins.
The PROMISE of the Federal Reserve was that it would not print more than $35 per ounce of gold.
The Federal Reserve broke their PROMISE, the temptation is just too much.
Bitcoin will break their PROMISE, just like the Federal Reserve did.
Bitcoin is a fiat money scam just like the Federal Reserve's.
Don't you people ever learn???
it's not a PROMISE, dummy.
not any more than it's a PROMISE that if you add 2 and 2, you'll get 4.
it's basic math.
try to understand how bitcoin works before you make up stories about something you don't understand.
people are showing how idiotic they are.. mocking what they don't understand is a hobby as old as cavemen
sadly their ignorance will keep them in the dark and all their Austrian Economic studying goes for naught as history tends to rhyme and right now all your dead idols would praise bitcoin
and this crap about TPTB will shut off the internet to stop it? are you fucking full throttle retard? shutting off the internet shuts down the whole american show and wakes ALL the people outta their slumber
what they are doing RIGHT NOW is adding as much red tape for people to convert from fiat to bitcoin. restricting size per exchange.. my advice is to flood as much as you can while you can.. the other side is that people won't even sell you bitcoins for dollars.. just like all the dreams that gold would be viewed this way.. it is already happening with bitcoins
The limit on the number of bitcoins is set by the cryptographical algorithms. Part of number theory. I learnt that. What did you learn?
Beware Bitcoin...
Chris Duane weighs in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrT68-B-csk&feature=share&list=UU-7vnmA1Zf1cRyqs9aR77ag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geWUr8cNwXQ&feature=share&list=UU-7vnmA1Zf1cRyqs9aR77ag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fvSYT7vhQY&feature=share&list=UU-7vnmA1Zf1cRyqs9aR77ag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlJ6oh50hiI&feature=share&list=UU-7vnmA1Zf1cRyqs9aR77ag
chris duane is a horse's ass.
i want to like the guy, and he makes some very good points about silver, but he is an absolutist fanatic, if you dont believe exactly as i do, you are the enemy.
I'm sorry having to say this, but looking only at Ben Bernanke money printing without relating it to the massive deflationary forces everywhere when debts are been repaid (money destruction) and money velocity is at record low is meaningless. We have to look at both sides of the bitcoin.
What is there to stop 75 different groups of Nerds from each creating a new version of Bitcoin every month?.
How long until Drupal or Wordpress comes out with a new Widget/Plug-in for creating your own Virtual Currency?.
When did zero hedge become such a hot bed of pants-wetters and tinfoil hat wearers .. FFS grow a pair!
"... gubmint gonna do diss, gubmint gonna do dat ... gubmint massa gonna keep me in chains and can't do no guddam thing!"
I used to come here for elucidation and relevant commentary, now it is like walking into a classroom of shrieking eighth-graders. The new war of ideas is on the web and fought with instant monetisation, bitcoin is the message and the gun.
Learn how to use bitcoin and Tor, pick up your weapons, we're gonna take our freedom back off of these scumbags whether you yellow-bellies are gonna watch or fight.
Since I was here last bitcoin is up tenfold ... I won't be returning again until it is up another tenfold. Be part of the new weatlh, take your monetary freedom back. Opportunities like these come along once in 300 years ... or less.
It's only new wealth if you can find a sucker to give you GREENBACKS for it.
PS It's virtual, you can't even wipe your ass with it!
So you keep all your worldly assets in physical things?
btw, you'll be lucky to buy them off me at 100 times higher ... you suckers will be still be snivelling when you are lining up to buy them then.
they don't understand that history rhymes.. that's what keeps the world going.
the biggest tell is that people with bitcoins really don't want to trade them for dollars at all.. ever
it isn't even about turning some tulip mania profit, it is about never looking back at some fuckin fiat piss up a wall goverment spending your wealth for uncontrolled lied about inflation
keep your guns and PMs but get some goddamn bitcoins ya fucks
You do realize it also holds true to PMs, right? Just physical PMs themselves don't have value. They are valuable only because there are people who want them.
I'd love to take out a 30-year mortgage in Bitcoin fiat.
Free house!
Until I can put a "Bitcoin" in my pocket, I'll stick with good ol' garden variety hard assets like food and lead.
You can. Save your wallet to a file and store on a USB stick.
The only thing you need to know about Bitcoin is that even in a limited SHTF scenario it will be immediately and probably permanently inaccessible to you.
I wrote a rebuttal but decided to remove it.
Thanks for helping keep the price of bitcoinlower than it'd otherwise be.
All the bankers/Fed/DHS have to do is claim that Bitcoin is being used in some global hawala system - funding terrorism.
Goodbye Bitcoin AND 100% of your magic sword money goes bye bye a la Cyprus AND you are now on a terrorist watch list.
Physical gold is the only medium.
When does my grocery store start accepting bitcoins for food?
When does my state and local government begin accepting bitcoins to pay property taxes?
When does my new car dealership accept bit coins for new cars?
When do my utilities accept bitcoins for payment?
If I have to convert to Fed Notes every time I have to pay the above, which will involve a broker and a transaction fee, isn't this just the same as a foreign currency, since my debts are owed in Fed Notes not bit coins?
By your argument, gold is worthless too.
When does my grocery store start accepting gold for food?
When does my state and local government begin accepting gold to pay property taxes?
When does my new car dealership accept gold for new cars?
When do my utilities accept gold for payment?
Nowhere in my text was the word "worthless."
Gold has the same sort of inconvenience as bitcoin.
I'm trying to understand how I would use bitcoin as money rather than as a speculative investment. To use gold or bitcoin or works of art as money, I would need a broker. It sounds a lot like a money order if you want to use bitcoin as money.
When talking about any businesses, investments or new laws, my first question is: Who gets rich off of this arrangement and what are the threats to that arrangement?
When does my grocery store start accepting gold for food?
The farmers at the market gladly accept Ag.
If I want a side of beef, gold would work.
When does my state and local government begin accepting gold to pay property taxes?
When they follow Utah's example?
When does my new car dealership accept gold for new cars?
Just try walking in with just FRN's. GoldMoney can work, though.
When do my utilities accept gold for payment?
OK, money orders are useful.
Typical transaction free is 1% on bitcoin.de. Credit cards and paypal are what, exactly?
Credit cards and pay pal fees are paid for by the merchant, unless I'm in a foreign country trying to convert my foreign denominated account to the local currency.
Credit Cards and paypal don't charge the person paying, they charge the person selling.
2x post
Can't we all just get along, what's wrong with owning silver gold and bitcoins,,
Nothing.
Sell gold, buy silver and platinum.