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Ten Fast Facts On The Economics Of Immigration

Tyler Durden's picture




 

While immigration was pretty far down on the priority list at this time last year, recently the topic has taken a front seat in lawmakers’ chambers down in Washington. ConvergEs's Nick Colas notes that policymakers on both sides of ideological spectrum are establishing positions and recommendations for reform, and are familiarizing themselves with some of the lesser-known facts about immigration. In a nutshell, he explains: immigration is not all about border crossings from Mexico and undocumented workers. There are many more figures – and costs – associated with immigration, most of which have palpable and measurable impacts on the US economy. From GDP growth to the health of the housing market, immigration’s influences may not be widely known, but should be in order for policymakers and investors to make informed decisions.

Via Nick Colas, ConvergEx

Note from Nick:  Immigration is often couched as a social issue, especially in American politics.  And while that may be the ‘Red meat’ both parties use to energize their respective bases, the truth is that the current debate on the topic has important economic ramifications as well.  Sarah picks it up from here, with data points all the way from the Federal budget to GDP math.

While immigration is back on the docket in Washington, the topic has yet to capture much attention on Wall Street, taking a back seat to European troubles and the Dow rally. The inattention seems warranted, as immigration is typically cast as a simply societal issue – but I urge you to reconsider its economic importance. The reality is that immigration, and any reform thereto, has real, visible impacts on the US economy at both the micro and macro levels, from GDP to job growth: 

  • GDP is first and foremost a product of population growth and productivity – and immigration plays a role in both. Population growth in particular is attributable almost exclusively to immigration, as fertility rates among native-born citizens fall. In fact, from 2003 to 2010, 20% (4,071,000) of the more than 21 million person increase in the population was in the foreign-born population, bringing their share of the entire population from 11.9% to 12.4%.
  • Immigration is also crucial to the health of the housing market. The foreign-born make up 14% of homeowners in the US, and more than half of them own their homes outright, according to Census figures. Naturalized citizens are more likely to own than rent, but the 16 million naturalized and non-citizen households – a number that is growing every year with the immigrant population – fuels a good portion of the new and existing sales we see every month.
  • Foreign-born workers are essential to job market health as well. Not only are immigration statistics good proxies for job market strength (i.e., more immigrants likely means a stronger labor market), but both high- and low-skill immigrants help to fill unwanted positions among native-born workers.
  • High-skill immigration in particular is key to growing a tech-centric economy: Washington has already recognized that the US is increasingly dependent on keeping bright minds in the country after college graduation. Patents, breakthroughs, and sheer innovation are what keep the economy moving along – and immigrants can and do help with that momentum.

As you can see, the labor market, housing, GDP, and even tax revenues are influenced by immigration – and, consequently, by changes to immigration law. Ideally, any changes made to the legislation would be favorable to the US economy – hence the focus on creating an easier path for high-skill labor immigration and paths to citizenship for current illegal residents. But in order to understand the kind of impact any changes may have on the US economy, first we have to look at where things stand now.

With that in mind, we’ve compiled a short list of more economically-oriented facts about immigration, presented below in “10 Things You May Not Know about US Immigration”.  They aren’t all splashy attention getters; some are pretty deep in the weeds, actually.  But all of them highlight some point we think hasn’t gotten enough attention in this ongoing debate over immigration in America.

1.       The Border Patrol’s budget increased 149% from FY 2002 to FY 2012: $1.4 to $3.5 billion. In fact, of all the agencies within the Department of Homeland Security, “Customs and Border Protection” has the largest budget with $10.4 billion, and it saw the biggest budget increase in 2012. Yep, those are billions… Thanks to the sequester, the budget decreased by about $500 million – but the DHS is requesting just under $12 billion for FY 2013, $3.6 billion of which will go to Border Patrol.

 

Border Patrol staff has also more than doubled over the past 10 years, growing 113% from FY02 to FY12. What’s most interesting here, though, is that the biggest staff increase has been at Northern points of entry (POEs), which include Buffalo, NY, Spokane, WA, and Grand Forks, ND. Staff here has grown 312%, from 492 to 2,026.

 

Bottom line: Enforcing the current system isn’t cheap.  A billion here and a billion there, and pretty soon you’re talking real money.

 

2.       And yet, despite increased budgets and staff, apprehensions are down -62% since FY02, and have fallen -78% since their peak in FY 2000. The FY12 total stood at 364,768: the last time apprehensions were this low was 1972. There are two easy explanations for the slowdown, though neither is particularly optimistic: either Border Patrol is doing a poor job, or no one is trying to cross the border. The latter point is corroborated by Mexican emigration estimates, and as we’ve said in prior notes the slowdown points to a still-moribund job market in the US.

 

Bottom line: Illegal immigration is about economics.  When people don’t particularly want to sneak into your country (or even try) you know you’ve got one weak economy.

 

3.       Based on these budget figures, we know that each apprehension at the border cost us $9,680, up from only $1,483 in FY02. A 553% increase in just 10 years. And each BP officer made only about 6 apprehensions in FY12, down from about 95 in FY02. The total cost of arresting, detaining, and deporting each person from the US comes in at $12,500, according to Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), though some estimates put the number as high as $23,482 (including court proceedings, etc.). With fewer crossings, the higher budget and larger staff don’t seem warranted – but there they are.

 

Bottom line: The system also seems to be inefficient – as well as expensive. So unless we rethink and reform apprehension, detaining, and deporting, we’re probably going to be stuck with a Border Patrol with what business analysts would call ‘Very high per unit costs.”

 

4.       The majority of the drug trade comes through the Southwest POEs, though each region appears to have its own drug “specialty”. Most marijuana comes through the Southwest, with 2.3 million pounds seized in FY12 – about 160 pounds per seizure. The “Coastal” border (Miami, New Orleans, etc.) is the primary seizure point for cocaine (5,962 pounds seized in 2012, 23 pounds per seizure), while most ecstasy is funneled through the Northern border (199 pounds in 2012).

 

671 firearms and 128,000 rounds of ammunition were seized at POEs across the country in FY12, along with $7.6 million dollars in cash. The money is not all in USD, though, and it all goes to an “asset forfeiture” account controlled by the Treasury. Almost 10,000 vehicles (“conveyances”, in CBP terms) were also seized, the majority of them at the Southwest border.

 

Bottom line: Immigration isn’t just about people – it is about border security as well.

 

5.       The largest immigrant groups in the US by country of origin are Mexico, China, Philippines, and the Dominican Republic. But while Mexican nationals make up the majority of immigrants into the US, net migration from the country has fallen to zero – and has perhaps even gone negative, according to the Pew Hispanic Center. As we’ve explored in prior notes, this trend is a pessimistic sign for the US labor market as it implies declining economic opportunity for lower-skill workers. Immigration from China and the Philippines, though, is up.

 

Bottom line: The stereotypical immigration flow is no longer accurate: immigration into the US has globalized and, consequently, any reforms must address a much more complicated system.

 

6.       Less than 1.2% of green card applicants were approved in 2011 (latest data available), with a cap of 140,000 cards to be allotted each year. More than 12.1 million applied in 2011. No single country can receive more than 7% of the green cards available, and some countries – most of which are major emigration points to the US – are excluded from the lottery each year. Mexico, for example, is excluded, but the country is also granted special “border crossing cards”: 1.5 million were issued in 2012.

 

Naturalization – separate from green cards and visas – is perhaps an even more rigorous process, as the required US residence period required varies by region. According to the Office for Immigration Statistics, immigrants born in Africa spend the least time in “legal immigrant status” with only 5 years’ waiting period. Immigrants from Asia and South America take 6 years, Europe 7, Oceania 8, and North America 10 years.

 

Bottom line: The US immigration structure is incredibly complicated. A more streamlined approach – even if it does turn out to be stricter – would save a lot of time (and, most likely, money).

 

7.       The majority of immigrant visas (separate from green cards) were granted to relatives or “family sponsored” persons in 2012. The State Department tries to keep the number of immigrant visas granted about the same each year, with only 482,300 issued in 2012. According to the State Department’s documentation, 75% of these went to family members (siblings, spouses, and children mostly), while only 4% went to “Employment-based preference” visas. Making a change here seems to be one of the focal points of immigration reform in Washington; the current proposal cuts down on familial visa grants in favor of high-skill employment visas.

 

Bottom line: The US immigration reform is putting first priorities first. While families will almost definitely remain important in any new legislation, high-skill immigrants – and their perceived value to the US economy – will have the priority.

 

8.       According to the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey, the average foreign-born non-citizen in the US has an income of $27,000, is between 25-34 years old, married, lives in California, and did not graduate from high school. The person is also much more likely to rent their home than to own. For comparison’s sake, native families average about $47k in income, while documented immigrants make $48k.

 

But while the majority of immigrant persons are older, an estimated 4.5 million children (citizens) have parents who are unauthorized to live in the US, and 1 million are estimated to be unauthorized themselves. 31,029 juveniles were apprehended at the border in 2012, including 24,481 unaccompanied children.

 

Bottom line: Non-citizens are, on many counts, distinct from native-born US citizens; but foreign-born persons as a whole are more or less “just like us”. More importantly though, not all immigrants (and particularly illegal immigrants) are young, single men looking for work: women and children are also an important part of the demographic

 

9.       The Congressional Budget Office estimates that at least half of undocumented immigrants file income papers each year, and pay local, state, and federal taxes. Based on the Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy, moreover, undocumented immigrants paid about $11.2 billion in taxes in 2010 – about $1,000 per estimated illegal alien living in the US.

 

Bottom line: Illegal immigration isn’t an absolute drain on tax revenue. Undoubtedly some persons do not pay federal, state, or local taxes, but many do.

 

10.   Finally, the Center for American Progress estimates that undocumented immigrations could contribute an additional $1.4 trillion to GDP between 2013 and 2022 if they are all granted citizenship by the end of this year. Granted, this is a major ‘Progressive’ think tank, but in this case the theory is sound.  More people on the books without all the red tape lowers costs and increases tax revenue.  Additionally, the Center says Americans overall would see a $791 billion increase in personal income, and tax revenue would go up $184 billion - $116 at the federal and $68 at the state level.

 

Bottom line: Immigration reform could add an extra couple points to GDP growth over the coming years. And increase tax revenues.

All of these points are worth considering as lawmakers push for immigration reform down in Washington. It will not be easy to come to agreements on paths to citizenship for illegal immigrants, caps on border crossings, and especially, money to spend on the process, for sure, but the change is necessary – and the benefits could potentially outweigh the costs. While a positive housing market, labor market, and even GDP number are not entirely dependent on immigration reform, some action could definitely push all of these in the right direction: up.

 

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Tue, 04/02/2013 - 08:57 | 3398947 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 They are deliberately allowing all these illegals to pad the population and keep the social welfare scam going. They are afraid decent Americans don't breed fast enough, so we need to import warm bodies.

 

 Simple as that.

 

 

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:01 | 3398962 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Ha, humanity isn't just another ponzi, it's the ponzi.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:18 | 3399049 YuropeanImbecille
YuropeanImbecille's picture

Another Joo propaganda piece.

 

The US was a international powerhouse when the immigration that came was mostly from white europe, now with 3rd world people you get a 3rd world country.

 

 

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:24 | 3399074 CH1
CH1's picture

Hate flows.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 11:31 | 3399704 Lordflin
Lordflin's picture

'A house divided against itself cannot stand'

This issue has nothing to do with hate... at least not of so called immigrants, either legal or illegal. Western populations are being watered down in order to destroy continuity, and as a consequence, resistance.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 13:30 | 3400123 nugjuice
nugjuice's picture

Someone has to cook our food and clean the toilets.

...and God forbid the spoiled brats in this country have to do that. Which would you do? Take the unemployment and welfare for benefits worth $25,000 per year, or go out and work a low paying shit job for $25,000 per year? Our laws are making the decisions for us.

At least the Mexicans come here and try to work for a living. They should be the real role models to project-dwellers, not hip-hop artists and athletes, who once they have an extra dollar, blow it up their nose or put it on their car. Immigrants take the dollar and send $0.70 back to their family. I, for one, say more power to them.

They are the last people in this country who still have the true original American Dream...to work hard and make a better life for yourself.

Edit: Whoever downvoted this after 5 seconds should take a look at American History and realize that immigration is how this country was founded. There was a time when Italians weren't let in. There was a time when Irish weren't let in. If you don't like it, go to Japan.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 13:44 | 3400169 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

amerika has another vicious cycle going w. illegals...

They work cheap, fast and, above all, dumb (as in pliant peasants who know their place).

They take jobs, often under the counter ones.... hell, they'll lick glue sticks clean if you ask them (in that sense they dis-insentivize automation and workplace safety), they "qualify for benefits" that the employer doesn't have to pay but his fellow citizens regularly do...

Citizen kids then get to stand around, become decadent, then called "decadent spoiled brats" by big hearted illegal lovin' softies of the Left and Chamber of Commerce types on the Right....

Personally i am very much AGAINST illegal immigration. It's a devil's bargain and a sign of the neo-feudal degeneration of this country.

The "elected" are indeed voting themselves a new electorate imho and therein lies the problem...

This country has been sold out by it's own satanic, greedy, WHITEY, Elite.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 14:49 | 3400438 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

"This country has been sold out by it's own satanic, greedy, WHITEY, Elite."

Yeah, as soon as I read #10 with humorous "calculations" of giant increases in GDP, that's pretty much all we needed to know about where this is headed.  

Nominal GDP is the one and only driver of economic policy.    

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 15:54 | 3400681 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

try crossing the borders from south america into mexico-- your a dead man

if your of european descent, eg. italian, hungarian, etc., etc., you get the drift... they [the immigration dept./ state dept.] haunt you to death-- can't get a drivers license [no way to find employment] or rent without papers, but, if your mexican they drive you in buses directly to the SSA to sign up-- food stamps, free telephone, rent subsidies,... the whole gambit 

and, in certain states you get to go to state colleges on the taxpayers dime while locals have to pay a premium

fuck the mexican's,

... do it right, or stay the fuck out,

... reagan started all this shit, and now look at california

jmo

Ps. i.ve got several friends from europe that have spent thousands of dollars for some kind of recourse to no avail! 

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 16:46 | 3400881 Lordflin
Lordflin's picture

When I lived in Southern California I had a house cleaner, live in nanny, gardnener, pool cleaner... All Caucasians... I refused to hire people of other races as I would not hire people who were in the country illegally... Had no problem finding whites to take those jobs...

And no, I have no problem hiring a man or woman of another race so long as they are citizens...

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 11:47 | 3399771 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Its not hate. I think immigration should be completely ban. Create opportunities in your own country and make it better for yourself and enjoy your achievements..

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 13:00 | 3400028 SilverCoinLover
SilverCoinLover's picture

Truth hurts.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:31 | 3399134 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Nah, most people immigrating to the US are 'americans'.

The difficulties of 'americans' come from the increasing scarcity of Indians.

Their heritage is growing thinner by the days.

It is not so much the increase of third worlders in the US but the decline of them outside the US.

An extorter of the weak, farmer of the poor's prosperity is directly proportional to the yield he can extract from the weak and the poor.

The day the yield out of the poor and the weak decline, the day the extorter, farmer's prosperity starts to wane.

And 'americans' have risen from the ranks to become the best extorter of the weak, farmer of the poor ever known.

Pyramids always collapse from the bottom. Extortion, farming schemes are no exemption to it.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:44 | 3399201 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Yes, China cannot feed itself because we extort all that melanine enhanced rice right the fuck on out of there.  That's why you have to eat tiger balls, turtle dick, and fetus powder suppliments since there just aint shit left to eat. 

Next time you invade a country, you dumbasses should pick one with some agricultural base that you can exploit.  Tibet?  You know what fucking grows there?  Rocks.  Rocks and some fucking vision quest hippies.  Now, Vietnam, they have an ag base you could exploit.  Except that they'll kick your asses if you invade.  AGAIN. 

Americanilist food exchange practice leave grandmammy in street, working for US Sailor Man who give AnAnonymous monkey-eye heritage that not even Huagpu Swine River water potion can fix.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:56 | 3399552 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Native New World American population has exploded from 1 million in 1492 to 600+ million today .... in biological terms .... that is an .... an explosion !

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 11:05 | 3399589 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Original white came to America were criminal deported from Europe.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 13:28 | 3400128 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

What about that whole native 1st world families devolving into 3rd or 4th world families thing? Blaming the USA's problems on immigrants is the height of denial.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:02 | 3398965 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

They immigrate to give us the government they escaped from.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:05 | 3398980 Ancona
Ancona's picture

Agreed GZG!! Anyone who has ever been to Hialeah Florida will agree as well. They run to America, the land of opportunity so they can escape from one corrupt government or another, yet they bring the very same corruption with them. One look at SoCal paints a picture with the correct colors. The reconquista is well underway.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:30 | 3399122 DoneThis2Long
DoneThis2Long's picture

True to some extent. Many immigrants who adopted the American way, are pissed off at the more recent "democratically minded" (read: with socialist bend).

The US is no longer the destination of choice for the immigrants we should be getting. And even the more intelligent ones do not plan on setting roots here like the old timers. Looking to make a buck then go back. Zero loyalty to the US .....

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:32 | 3399145 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

In the US, there has only been an 'american' government from 1779, July, 4th. It will remain the same for at least 100 years...

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:25 | 3399390 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

GZG

1. If you think corruption, fraud, undemocratic repressive laws, and thievery is new to the US, you know nothing of US history.

2. If you think the US has had nothing to do with the corruption, dictatorships, and economic malaise in Latin America (as well as other places like the Philippines, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia), you know nothing of world history.

3. If you think the current centers of corruption in banking and militarism are corrupt because they are run by "immigrants", you know nothing of current events.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 11:08 | 3399600 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Thats what I said above.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:05 | 3398981 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Thanks for the Communist perspective on immigration, ilene.

We don't need more policy wonk crap.  We need to enforce existing laws and get rid of this ILLEGAL invasion.

If America drifts into a full scale civil war in the next few years this problem will be numero uno.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:24 | 3399086 CH1
CH1's picture

Yeah, let's hurt all those brown guys.

Goddamned unAmurican of them to WORK!

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:54 | 3399251 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

fuck you gorilla-i'm waiting to hear your brilliant argument on how much the brown people contribute to our society as far as arts and sciences and engineering,etc and not simply cheap labor that also is big into gangbanging and out of wedlock births and ripping off the US govt's social services.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:56 | 3399274 CH1
CH1's picture

LOL... as if you'd ever let go of your hate.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:07 | 3399301 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

seriously- i'm waiting for your brilliant pro-brown argument 

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:39 | 3399379 foodstampbarry
foodstampbarry's picture

He has no pro brown argument. They just invade like locusts and suck their host dry - that's it. As for hate, the only hate I see comes from groups like La Raza, that basically wants the white man exterminated.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:39 | 3399464 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

The "brown argument" is simply this:

1.  They leave countries that are totally fucked politically and economically and come to one that is relatively free.

2.  They come here and work for less than native Americans.  A lot less.  And they receive subsidies as well.

3.  As illegals or green card workers they are totally coerced.

4.  Unlike Americans these "brown people" are a new audience and are not hip to the BS behind the "American Dream".  They'll believe anything.

5.  They are a ready supply for the military, and the new DHS national police force.

6.  They help divide the people with strange language, religion and culture.

It's all about keeping workers and "citizens" in line.  The legitimate reaction by native Americans is not racism, no matter what words are used or how the anti-immigration arguments are presented.

 

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 11:35 | 3399714 Taint Boil
Tue, 04/02/2013 - 15:37 | 3400614 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

Funny thing Taint is that your little quip is exactly the opposite of what is happening.  The PTB are preparing to flood the country with immigrants and you are towing the line with the subtle lecturing "...all you raciss Americans need to quiet down and take what we are shoving down your throat...."

 

The ones that see it coming realize it is the cultural and demographic destruction of this nation and a path to being a 3rd world state....but yeah...go ahead tell people that it is for their own good....and may you get what you deserve.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 16:07 | 3400756 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

You are a fucking retard. BO just set an all time deportation record in 2012. Humans will never be free as long as they cannot move themselves and their wealth freely accross borders and work and live wherever they please without restriction. A nation state is nothing but a human plantation. It's amazing how many of you idiots have developed a nationalistic love for your plantation of birth. Fucking pathetic!

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 16:44 | 3400873 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

This is the same BO that is driving this new immigration policy and wants to remake this country as a 3rd world socialist state.  And it sounds like you are licking his ass the whole way.

 

Please move to LA and enjoy the virtues of the world that you embrace...

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 21:08 | 3401554 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

BO is a corporate fascist through and through. I have said this before and I'll say it again. There are elements of socialism within fascism. Also, "socialism" is frequently used as a cover term for truly fascist policies. For example, I bet you think Obamacare is socialist. You are wrong, of course, if you think that. Obamacare is actually fascistic. The sole purpose of Obamacare is to funnel money into the pockets of the politically well-connected insurance companies. It has nothing to do with healthcare.

I hope you enjoyed your lesson in socialism vs fascism today.

Now, onto your comment about immigration policy reform. What reform? Like I said, BO set a new deportation record in 2012. He isn't reforming immigration! There are prison camps all over America that house 300,000+ immigrants, mostly from Mexico. They get no trial, no representation, no hearings, and some of them have been in these soft concentration camps for 5-10 years or more.

There is no conspiracy to open the floodgate of Mexicans. Any Mexican who wants to get into America just walks or swims here. The real problem is not immigration. The real problem is free handouts for everyone with a heartbeat.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 11:10 | 3399615 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

How many brown people are running the FED ponzi?

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 14:26 | 3400368 YellowBrickSWE
YellowBrickSWE's picture

Pretty much only jews from the middle east running the FED ponzi as far as I know?

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:08 | 3398990 daxtonbrown
daxtonbrown's picture

On any given day I could round up dozens of illegals here in Vegas. Border Patrol isn't inefficient, it is hamstrung.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:33 | 3399138 CH1
CH1's picture

Border Patrol are mostly uniformed thugs.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 02:54 | 3402219 NaN
NaN's picture

daxtonbrown:  The S.S. were efficient. They were also stupid thugs who could not otherwise get a job.

 

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:18 | 3399016 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Last week there was this funny documentary on television about Spain

WHERE SPANISH PEOPLE CROSSED THE BORDER WITH MAROKKO TO FIND JOBS!!

VERY VERY VERY LOWPAYING JOBS!!

Maybe soon, it will also reverse in America like it does in Spain

 

update:

German exploitation of Spanish people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqhM85bwviY&sns=em

 

can't find the BBC docu but that was also very desturbing to see!!

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:25 | 3399062 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Bottom line : Modern imperialism still needs new slaves.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:26 | 3399095 CH1
CH1's picture

Bottom line: Unhappy people always need outsiders to blame.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:28 | 3399107 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

in Ancient rome... you could buy a sexslave for about 2 ounces of silver...

HERE'S 5000 OUNCES!!! LET'S GO ROMAN STYLE!!

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 11:19 | 3399658 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Soon you will find here in this country too. with 2 ounce of islver.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:07 | 3399318 newworldorder
newworldorder's picture

I am non trying to bring the abortion debate into this, - but .... We have voluntarily aborted millions of potential US citizens, black and white, while the neo-liberal establishment whines for increased Latino immigration.

Look at the aborted population in the last 20 years and convince us  that it has not been offset by the approximate same number of illigal Latino population in this country, currently waiting for their greatest gift, namely "the path to citizenship."

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 11:56 | 3399807 Matt
Matt's picture

While I am for contraception over abortions, the key difference here is that number of children directly affects the wealth of a family, even if society as a whole adapts and just brings in more people.

You can choose to have two children and give them a decent home and send them to college, or you can have 8 children and live in squalor (unless you have a big farm away from the city, but that is no longer the norm).

I guess the only reason to support continual increase/replacement of citizens is to support paying the interest on the national debt, and to pay into social programs to support retirees. I don't really see those as good reasons to do that.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:49 | 3399515 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

Godisanhftbot

Simple as that, only

for those unable to grasp the complex.

For the simple, it's nothing to do with "NAFTA" destruction of other nation's economies, nor the corruption bred by overseas militarism and the phoney US-led "drug war".

Is it too much to consider the scam "they" most profit by is not a supposed "social welfare" scam, but by a financial scam?

Obviously though, "they" find it helpful to keep racism alive by blaming it all on "too many benefits" for the poor, especially minorities. 

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 08:57 | 3398949 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Most people won't mind allowing more people to work for citizenship.  The problems arise if the newcomers are not taxed like the folks already here.  Anyone else know of local businesses owned by recent newcomers who pay little know taxes and always "sell the bubsiness" to another newcomer-relative when the grace period is about to end?   Total horseshit.  Flat tax every motherfucker or don't tax any of our incomes (the latter makes more sense BTW).

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:00 | 3398957 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Anyone with any sense should be trying to leave this open air concentration camp, not get a membership card to it.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:01 | 3398969 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

If you can run a business tax-free for a couple years, why not.  I mean, selling out Americans has made a lot of people a lot of money.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:23 | 3399072 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Plus immigrants get the SBA loans and other financial incentives to start a small business that the natives aren't qualified to receive.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:19 | 3399054 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

people do funny things when their kids are starving...

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:27 | 3399100 CH1
CH1's picture

people do funny things when their kids are starving...

Yeah, imagine - risking their lives to find work.

Que horrible!

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:35 | 3399149 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Many people would happily start a business if they can get the same deal immigrants do when it comes to taxes/interest.  Que horrible indeed, how about giving everyone the same fucking deal fucknut?

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:55 | 3399263 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

That would be racist.  You obviously don't understand how the tyranny of poverty works. Those whites have it better.  Even though they're born naked and screaming, just like everyone else, they fucking have it better.

/sarc off.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:58 | 3399280 CH1
CH1's picture

how about giving everyone the same fucking deal fucknut?

How about leaving everyone alone, bully?

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 11:28 | 3399690 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

?  gasp!  Bullies at Fight Club!  perish the thought.

better go get a paper sack, you're starting to hyperventilate, pansy.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 13:55 | 3400246 SemperFord
SemperFord's picture

What deal do they get? I know an illegal who runs a business, puts out 2,500 a month in business rent, plus business expenses, plus rent for apartment, plus cost of living and works about 10-12 hours a day 6 days a week. Never told me they gave him a special break...Maybe I can change my name to Inigo Montoya and catch a break myself.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:53 | 3399255 TooBigToJail
TooBigToJail's picture

Yeah, thats why Mexicans (in Mexico) have an obesity and diabetes epidemic, all the starvation.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:37 | 3399451 STP
STP's picture

Don't have kids that you can't afford to feed!  It's one thing if you're an American citizen, who's worked and is down on their luck, but it's another when you've got a population that has a long history of low-income demographics, breeding a whole horde of 'Handy Manny's and other low-income 'Service Sector' jobs, that don't cover the cost to the taxpayer for the services they take out of the system.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:25 | 3399089 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

As put by an 'american' on this site, 'America' is in the eye of the storm.

Better to move to it if you want to get protected from the bad sides of 'americanism' in an 'american' world.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:14 | 3399020 billybobtx
billybobtx's picture

They would owe little if any tax, and most would qualify for the Earned Income Credit. What is this tax everyone thinks people working for minimum wage would pay??

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:00 | 3398951 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Nice diversion for a bunch of lazy self-serving psychotic politicians on the verge of utter collapse...'HEY, let's talk about that immigration thingy! Stir up the sheeple herd with some good ol racism stuff!'

 

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:29 | 3399109 CH1
CH1's picture

Stir up the sheeple herd with some good ol racism stuff!'

Well said, my friend.

Sadly, it has some roots here too. :(

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 03:03 | 3402224 NaN
NaN's picture

I know what you mean, CH1.

(I usually avoid the political threads. Enough slumming for this week.)

 

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:35 | 3399151 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The 'american' elite exists to serve the 'american' middle class. When the 'american' middle class wants their racist drama, the 'american' elite must serve.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:58 | 3399278 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

The 'Han" elite exists to serve the 'Han' elite class. When the 'Han' class wants ****, the rest must serve.

There, fixed that translation for you, you little fucking tool.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:25 | 3399398 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

Can you change your screen name to "One Trick Pony" please?  It would accurately depict your monomania.  It's really rather boring...

Big Bang creates the universe? Americanism

Meteor destroys the dinosaurs? Americanism

Pangea breaks up and forms the continents? Americanism

Cain murders Able?  Americanism

God floods world, Noah builds arc?  Americanism

Pyramids built with slave labor? Americanism

Moses comes down with ten laws on tablets? Americanism

War of the Three Kingdom?  Americanism

Jesus crucified?  Americanism

Huns invade Eastern Europe?  Americanism

Rome falls? Americanism

Dark Ages in the Western World? Americanism

Mongols invade China and most of Asia, leave pyramid of skulls outside Baghdad?  Americanism

Gallileo tried by the Catholic Church?  Americanism

30-Years War, Reformation, Counter-Reformation?  Americanism

WWI, WWII, Cold War, in fact, all conflict in human history?  Americanism

Cancer, STDs, in fact all known diseases?  Americanism

 There...you're done.  It's all "blah blah blah blah blah Americanism blah blah blah blah Americans" now. Congrats BTW, you've officially become the first person I put on my "ignore" list. 

 

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 11:25 | 3399675 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Last try to sell American Dream BS.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:00 | 3398954 Wildmann
Wildmann's picture

How come this was written in English.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:05 | 3398963 HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

¿cómo es que esto fue escrito en Inglés

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:12 | 3398999 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

If you can't speak the language...get the fuck out of the country - Andrew Dice Clay

 

I would have edited that.....but I believe in the 1st Amendment.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:17 | 3399037 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

move where the food is

 

-sam kinnison(sp?)

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:23 | 3399078 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

A lot of US Americans should have left the place to make the point valuable.

How many of them spoke an indian language?

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:00 | 3399289 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

No no.  We bought it.  I'm a direct descendant of Chief Poktwatalot.   There's an ad for chinese women in my peripheries here.  Are you growing them for export now, instead of just tossing them in the river?

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:25 | 3399094 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Isn't the Spanish speaking community in America already larger than the English speaking community?

¿Hablas español? IRME LEJOS DE MI PAÍS!
Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:02 | 3399294 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

That's okay.  we haven't played cowboys and scratchbacks for a long time.   The last round, we tarred and feathered Santa Anna's ass when he was trying to sneak back to Mexico disguised as a private.

It will be just as much fun this time around.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:00 | 3398961 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

(i.e., more immigrants likely means a stronger labor market), but both high- and low-skill immigrants help to fill unwanted positions among native-born workers.

 

 

bullshit

bullshit

if you take them out of the workforce, the wages paid would go up in order to fill the positions, and just like that our fucking economy is fixed

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:04 | 3398977 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

So what you are saying is that wages matter?  Please report to the FEMA camp for re-education.  Wages don't matter, debt does.  That 30 year mortgage is about to become a 50 and 100 year mortgage.  The bankers press a button, you serve them for life, and so do your children. "winning"

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:12 | 3399013 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

when i lived in germany 1989-1990 there were people i knew who had 100 year mortgages

 

winning indeed

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:35 | 3399162 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Same thing in Japan.  I didn't say this was anything fucking new.  Doesn't make it any more sustainable.  If everyone was jumping off a bridge, sounds like you would too.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:07 | 3398983 Seer
Seer's picture

NOTHING will increase wages!  That's a zero-sum game- increase wages and goods and services also increase.  We're at/past "peak prosperity" and have racked up a TON of debt (just look around you at the excesses that have built up- you cannot blame that on "illegals," no, blame it on society's [marketing?] being run on consumerism).

The economy will never be "fixed" because it was always pinned on perpetual growth, and on a finite planet this violates the ULTIMATE laws, the laws of physics.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:15 | 3399032 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

if you put money into the hands of people who work for it, they will spend some, and save some. thats what drives a healthy economy. but if prices rise and wages remain flat, the economy DIES.

 

other than that, i agree with most of your point

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:22 | 3399070 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Work is consumption.

Consume for your consumption, it only makes consumption bigger.

And depletion of resources faster.

Welcome to an 'american' world and an 'american' future.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:24 | 3399073 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

 undocumented immigrants paid about $11.2 billion in taxes in 2010 – about $1,000 per estimated illegal alien living in the US

 

and so they pay a little tax say researchers

but how much do they collect from social programs?

which number is bigger?

what about anchor babies?

and they paid on average 1000 bucks per person in taxes

raise your hand if you pay more than 1000 per year in taxes

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:39 | 3399169 expres12
expres12's picture

The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants. Most of the estimates found that even though unauthorized immigrants pay taxes and other fees to state and local jurisdictions, the resulting revenues offset only a portion of the costs incurred by those jurisdictions for providing services related to education, health care, and law enforcement…”[The Impact of Unauthorized Immigrants on the Budgets of State and Local GovernmentsDecember 2007]

 

Studies cited in the CBO report show revenues paid by illegals fall 20% to 60% short of the costs they impose on state and local governments.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:45 | 3399489 STP
STP's picture

You've just answered your own question, thank you.  A $1,000 in taxes!  Fawk, that doesn't cover nothing!  The cost of 'educating' a child in the Los Angeles Unified School District is at least $10K a year!  Multiply that by the average of three children per family, and you've got a $30K burden on the system.  And the graduation rate is pathetic.  Add in WIC, CALWORKS, TANF, Section 8 and a host of other 'feel good' programs and you've got a state of stupidity here in California.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:09 | 3399328 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Well Seer, hard to argue your point. That`s why a way had to be found to DECREASE wages : globalization !

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 11:28 | 3399687 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Last ditch effort before they (TPTB) close the door for US nationals to leave the country.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:00 | 3398964 sangell
sangell's picture

An illiterate Honduran is not an asset in either his country or ours. He is just surplus population. An Chinese graduate student? Not so much.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:15 | 3399027 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Oh, he is a very essential asset.

It is only in their minds that 'americans' have been able to overcome the environment.

In the reality, 'americans' have been feeding off people unable to consume their own environment at the same rate as 'americans' have been able.

Hopefully for 'americans', the illeterate hondurian is here to decrease the consumption rate and leaves some resources off.

But, hey, 'americans''mantra is that they have been able to overcome the environment, that an overconsumption issue mostly comes from non consumers and that the more you consume, the more you will get to consume in the future.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:49 | 3399226 Anglo Hondo
Anglo Hondo's picture

Hey, don't call me an "illeterate hondurian". 

*Talk about " illeterate" !    Moronic Chynease sitizanizm.


Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:24 | 3399085 Seer
Seer's picture

So, the US is overrun with "illiterate Hondurans?"  If they're "illiterate" how in the fuck can they make it to the US (let alone survive here)?

And by what measure do you apply "illiterate?"  US standards?  I dare any so-called "literate" person from the US to go and survive in some countryside in Honduras (let alone even in the fucking US!).

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:53 | 3399240 Anglo Hondo
Anglo Hondo's picture

I survive very well on the Bay Island of Roatan, Honduras.  Thanks for being concerned.

Who dares, wins.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:13 | 3399345 therearetoomany...
therearetoomanyidiots's picture

Roatan is awesome.  Great place!  God bless you.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:34 | 3399435 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

"An illiterate Honduran" can be a subsistence farmer up in the hills far off the banana plantations who refuses to be ass raped by the same old corporate international gangsters
that one day declared people should be assets or they are surplus population.

Could add some swearing, but just food for thought.

Well , no, wrong club : Your perception of a disposable
Honduran is some second generation gang member or any generation of survivors of the proxy war against Nicaragua.

They first whore themselves out to kill fellow Central Americans and when left to rot came to the US full of resentment. There are equally illiterate Central Americans
from Guatemala that are most sought after maids in celebrity
households because they are uniquely trustworthy.

Guess who got the raping before becoming outcast?

Shoot the angry guy to finish off your former mistakes, treat the trustworthy maid very well and her offspring
to take her place but be wary of the alien graduate to
take your eggs out of your nest.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:02 | 3398967 d edwards
d edwards's picture

What is it these people are fleeing from?

A top-down oppresive gov't, a society where the top is the gov't officials-and then there is everyone else. High unemployment, brutal criminals engaged in the drug trade?

They're coming HERE to escape THAT?

Only difference is that here our politicos will buy there votes (legal or not) with an abundance of free goodies, at taxpayer expense.

Wonderful.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:19 | 3399050 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Human beings follow resources.

'Americans', to expand their societies, have monopolized the world's resources. The world is organized to entitle 'americans' in their consumption.

People do not come to the US to flee an oppressive government. They come to the US because it is the ultimate consumption sink in an 'american' world, the place where the resources will converge to be consumed in a big consumption fest.

They stay at home, they have little chance to consume their own resources as they ship somewhere to entitle 'americans' in their consumption.

They move to the US, and suddenly, their chances to consume the resources of their former homeland dramatically increase.

The way it works in an 'american' world.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:03 | 3398970 Icantstopthinki...
IcantstopthinkingaboutNINJAs's picture

Was april fool's extended to today?

 

#10 Center for american progress? with a "could" qualifier tied to a number with a precise decimal measurement in it?

 

It seems that the boating accidents that happen to gold and ammo will eventually start happening to identities: ie: John Apples was lost in a boating accident, but undocumented Juan Manzanas crossed into Texas today. 

 

Long English - Spanish classes and life preservers.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:04 | 3398973 rustymason
rustymason's picture

You don't make something better by adding 10 million Mexicans to it.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:09 | 3398989 MFLTucson
MFLTucson's picture

Not true, you can make the welfare system break down and that is what was taught by Saul Alinsky and Clowards and Pivens, ..Obams idols. Obamas plan is to radically change America by destroying it and he is getting his way with the clowns like Bonier who are in hiding.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:13 | 3399008 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 Not even Mexico

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:20 | 3399055 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

You might decrease the consumption rate for some time.

It buys time before the depletion of resources, as brought to you by 'americans'.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:00 | 3399129 CH1
CH1's picture

You don't make something better by adding 10 million Mexicans to it.

Mexicans WORK.

How dare they!

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:47 | 3399500 STP
STP's picture

Work doing what?  Look at the Census demographics and they take way more out of the system, than they put back in, even counting the 'service sector' jobs they work in, which produces nothing, but is actually a dollar bill going around in a huge circle jerk.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 16:46 | 3400879 CH1
CH1's picture

LOL... way to worship the state!

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 15:59 | 3400705 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

2 of them work (under the table of course) .......the other 8 are sitting at the section 8 apartment, getting fat off of EBT Cheetos, ignoring the homework from la escula.  

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:03 | 3398974 Cursive
Cursive's picture

All of Nic Colas's points assume that the reference society is in decline.  Immigration for economic growth is not necessary in strong, dynamic cultures.  History is replete with examples of this, the Roman Empire being a great example.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:04 | 3398978 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Hola amigo. Como esta?

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:08 | 3398982 Cultural Capital
Cultural Capital's picture

 

When people say immigrants I think Peter Thiel and Elon Musk. Some of the best America has. Merika should take in the best.

 

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:30 | 3399124 Mercury
Mercury's picture

You would think, now that the continent is well-populated from sea to shining sea, that we would aspire to become the world's Harvard in this regard and not the world's community college.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:07 | 3399323 therearetoomany...
therearetoomanyidiots's picture

brilliant

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 11:38 | 3399729 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

"Merika should take in the best."

 

The best do not like the way immigration treat them at the airport...

 

They are learning Mandarin.

Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:08 | 3398984 Mercury
Mercury's picture

  • Foreign-born workers are essential to job market health as well. Not only are immigration statistics good proxies for job market strength (i.e., more immigrants likely means a stronger labor market), but both high- and low-skill immigrants help to fill unwanted positions among native-born workers.
  •  

    Bottom line: The American economy is rapidly bifurcating into jobs Americans won't do and jobs Americans can't do.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:09 | 3398993 johnQpublic
    johnQpublic's picture

    wont do because the wage is too low?

    maybe 'cause they can import someone to do it cheaper or export the job to someone who will do it cheaper?

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:16 | 3399001 Mercury
    Mercury's picture

    ...or because you can realize more income by going on the dole. Also, there's not nearly as much expectation for people to actually work any more.  I'd say half of the jobs I've held since I was 12 are now widely considered, from Washington to Hollywood, to be beneath the dignity of (especially white and black) Americans.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:20 | 3399053 kaiserhoff
    kaiserhoff's picture

    You and me, Bro, but that's one of the most fundamental problems with Washington and Hollywood, contempt for an honest day's work.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:44 | 3399191 Mercury
    Mercury's picture

    About 30% of physicians and surgeons in the US are foreign born. In places like the Midwest those numbers are much higher. This might be because medical care in the US is getting better, cheaper and more available (I'm trying to be scientific here) but it’s more likely because native born US citizens simply aren’t cutting the mustard.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:02 | 3399299 Whoa Dammit
    Whoa Dammit's picture

    Or it could be the foreign born get to go to med school here for free, plua the institutes of higher education get diversity .gov cash. 

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:10 | 3399336 Mercury
    Mercury's picture

    Well, you can't practice medicine in the US with a foreign degreee (except Canadian) unless you go back, pretty much to square one with a residency program and a bunch of other certs.  So, those high, foreign-born doctor figures are with very heavy restrictions in place.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:09 | 3399324 kaiserhoff
    kaiserhoff's picture

    Or it may be because you can get a nine month MD in India, or in many places, just buy one.

    That's what I would do if I were starting out.  Why work?  Sell happy pills to grannies.

    Same as dealing crack, but LEGAL.   Is this a great cuntry or wut?

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 16:00 | 3400729 The_Dude
    The_Dude's picture

    I call shenanigans....data please or quit posting your BS..

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:08 | 3398987 johnQpublic
    johnQpublic's picture

    According to the Office for Immigration Statistics, immigrants born in Africa spend the least time in “legal immigrant status” with only 5 years’ waiting period. Immigrants from Asia and South America take 6 years, Europe 7, Oceania 8, and North America 10 years

     

    oceania?

    are we actually becoming so orwellian that oceania is now a real friggin place?

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:09 | 3398994 JethroTull
    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 12:18 | 3399877 therearetoomany...
    therearetoomanyidiots's picture

    H1B,,,,this is criminal.   This is what drove just about every american out of IT by making it unprofitable (lower salary)....I watched this  happen.   Oh, we're 'partnering' with Infosys we'll save money.  These are the best and the brightest, the 90 percentile tier in India - that is until they get over here, 85% of them can't articulate thoughts in english, and programming consists of copying old code and trying to 'fix it'.   At one point we had some of these fools copy informational text in the code and try to run it as actual code.   The remaining 15% were excellent.   Then, within a year of them arriving, layoffs.   And then more layoffs.   Then the building (a second campus) is closed down and all are moved to the main location   More layoffs.  Now it's all outsourced people making 10 bucks an hour (paid to infosys) no benefits payments, no taxes paid to the states and locales, but high use of resources, trash, water, roads, they don't contribute much to the economy because they all live together, 8 in an apartment for 3, sitting on crates and sleeping on matresses.     H1B is nothing but 'amnesty' for high tech....and worse, they take money out of the economy not only by sending it all home and not spending much of it here but for the 1000 'consultants' needed, that's 1000 americans without jobs.  

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 12:44 | 3399965 paulbain
    paulbain's picture

    -------------

     

     

     

     

     

    Folks, the comment above is the BEST danged comment in this entire thread of discussion. THE BEST!!

     

    Please read it -- and weep for America.

     

     

     

    -- Paul D. Bain

    PaulBAin@PObox.com

     

     

     

    -----------------

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 16:13 | 3400772 The_Dude
    The_Dude's picture

    Agreed.....Folks...if you have ever read Greenspan's book...he has an appendix where he speaks fondly of the H1_B program and a need to control US Engineering wage costs (his fascination with inflation) and the use of it to drive down those costs for major US companies.....

    Economists are not great game theorists....and so what you have in result is the destruction of US Engineering as every engineer runs for cover or sucks it up and takes it.  Parents dissuade their kids to enter the STEM field because they see no future in an industry being overrun by offshoring/outsourcing....and the US fucking corps. saying they need more H1-Bs cause the Americans won't do it.

    Now the articles in Silicon Valley have been opining if innovation is on the decline in America....Only took 20 years to destroy it....

    Fuck you people...fuck you all for being so naive....

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 12:49 | 3399980 newworldorder
    newworldorder's picture

    You understand how the H1B scam works. Non IT Corporate executives, Politicians and Immigration Experts do not, but they draft the policies that become law in this country.

    The American worker/citizen is clueless and will remain clueless. This has been happening since at least the mid 1990's, before the Y2000 "shortage of technical people" scare.

    Effectively as a country, or through abstantion or unwillingness to embrase the immigration debate, we have forever ceded the ability to control the economic and social makeups of our country. For all of us that do not like where thisngs are going, it's time to suck it up and quit complaining.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:10 | 3398998 Voltaire
    Voltaire's picture

    Is this paper written by Goldman Sachs? It's the same type of utter and complete bullshit. 

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:18 | 3399044 The Abstraction...
    The Abstraction of Justice's picture

    I class it as immigration porn. The 'growth in GDP' it talks of it at the expense and not the profit of the native people. It is the natives made homeless and whose democratic body is swamped by the immigrants.

     

    Mass immigration is invasion by another name.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:05 | 3399307 therearetoomany...
    therearetoomanyidiots's picture

    This effort is nothing more than diluting the labor pool even further because we, the US, cannot be allowed to make such huge salaries/incomes when the rest of the world is picking peanuts out of shit to stay alive and we drive hummers and the such.   well, not allowed when corporations are trying to 'spread their brand popularity' across the globe.

     

    The author of this drivel should be driven out by hordes of 'town folk' with pitchforks and torches.   Tarred and feathered in public.  

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:24 | 3399012 Waterfallsparkles
    Waterfallsparkles's picture

    Droves of Illegal Immigrants are coming in.  I have an apartment for rent in Md. and I had 3 calls just last week from Illegal Immigrants wanting to rent.  They cannot speak English.  They do not have Green Cards.

    Surprisingly most are being smuggled in from Honduras.  There are organizations that are helping them.  Because they cannot speak English, many times because communication is so difficult they have someone call for them.  I was told by one of the so called translators that they are helping as many as they can to get into this Country Illegally.  He said, well they want to come here to work.

    I will not rent to them because if there is non payment of rent or damage there is no way I could collect it in South America.

    Obama's desire to make all Illegal Aliens Citizens is causing a huge rush to get as many Illegal's in the Country as possible.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:15 | 3399022 The Invisible Foot
    The Invisible Foot's picture

    Immigrants cannot out produce automation.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:22 | 3399058 gaoptimize
    gaoptimize's picture

    The fact he is conveniently ignoring is that immigrants, no matter what their legal status, will be encouragerd to vote by the Democrats, and many will without thoroughly enforced voter ID.  The national Government of the USA will become a one party state, eventually no different from the former USSR or PRC, if an immigration bill passed by the Democrat-controlled Senate is signed into law.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:32 | 3399141 GeezerGeek
    GeezerGeek's picture

    Unfortunately, voter fraud extends well beyond the immigrant issue. There needs to be a severe penalty for vote fraud, like removal of the hands that cast illegal ballots. Just like we severely punished people like Corzine and all the other banksters who broke the law. Just like we punish politicians who break their oaths of office.

    Sigh... 

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:39 | 3399170 Mercury
    Mercury's picture

    Not quite.

    Democrats and Republicans will become even more indistinguishable from each other than they are now.  Look at the Conservative and Labor Parties in the UK. What’s the choice there? I think one wants the VAT to be 19% and the other wants it to be 21%.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:55 | 3399269 gaoptimize
    gaoptimize's picture

    And the road to this indistinguishability is an electorate that both parties must pander to: http://politic365.com/2013/02/12/the-end-of-the-gop-latinos-overwhelmingly-prefer-democrats/

    The argument for pandering is already being made by RINOs like Jeb Bush and Carl Rove.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 10:02 | 3399296 therearetoomany...
    therearetoomanyidiots's picture

    Fuck the bush family.  The fucking father started all this shit, and his pal, billy clinton and the GOP got us NAFTA which really started it all  

    If Jeb isn't laughed out of the arena and prevented from even getting footing into the 2016 race, we will truly have slid into the drain pipe, and we're already dangling from the drain cover as it is...

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:59 | 3399283 therearetoomany...
    therearetoomanyidiots's picture

    Those horses are already well out of the barn, and probably living in Taiwan at this point...

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:25 | 3399088 Seer
    Seer's picture

    "in order for policymakers and investors to make informed decisions."

    Ha ha!  Like "informed" means "correct!"

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:28 | 3399108 GeezerGeek
    GeezerGeek's picture

    A few random thoughts based on my experiences:

    1) My wife is a naturalized citizen, having moved here from Taiwan ROC (born in Shanghai, actually). We sponsored her three brothers when they decided to migrate here. All did it the legal way. The idea was to bring the brothers here and start a Chinese restaurant. The idea of a cash-based business was compelling, but it never happened.

    2) Having worked with many Latinos, I found the older ones - escapees from Cuba, including one who found himself inadvertantly participating in the Bay of Pigs invasion - were much more pro-liberty/anti-totalitarianian than more recent arrivals. The younger ones tended to prefer top-down government with the 'safety net' in place. In other words, they wanted what they escaped from, but just not as much as they had from their home counties.

    3) I worked with a decent number of H1B types from India, because the company with which I worked switched to Oracle for its primary applications. Nice people and all that, but their primary benefit to the company was the low wages they required. My son started college in IT, but switched when he saw the effect the immigrants were having on salaries, etc. I can't help but wonder how many other Americans also chose to abandon IT for similar reasons. Granted, some in IT did it because of an affinity or because they really enjoy computer-related stuff. Anyone who looked to IT as simply just a job would less likely persevere. This may very well apply to other careers, but I tend to be agnostic where I have no expertise so I can't say for sure. It also doesn't help that the US education system is doing such a poor job generally at preparing our youth to compete with foreigners.

    4) I would have much less of an objection to granting legal status - with no chance of citizenship for 10 years - to all those who entered the US illegally if a) no offspring were granted American citizenship, and b) no one under this revision would ever be allowed to collect any form of government handout.

    Actually, I'd like to see that last part, denying welfare, EBT, whatever, applied to US citizens as well. TANSTAAFL.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 11:10 | 3399192 DoneThis2Long
    DoneThis2Long's picture

    2 years ago I wish I could have punched an idiot, friend of friend. both He & her were in IT, from India, working here. She for ...DHS while he was freelancing. That asshole was a Socialist unlike any I've seen in a long time, trashing "the stupid Americans who are paying me high wages", yet, the SOB was bragging of the money he was making.

    This is what the gooberment is looking to attract. Not the type that America was built upon, yet a specimen of the vast majority now coming.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:33 | 3399146 Whoa Dammit
    Whoa Dammit's picture

    Half the people who live on my middle class street are not from here and cannot speak English. This is no exaggeration. They have come from almost every country imaginable, not just Mexico. It's like living at the freaking U.N. And of course there can be no community cohesiveness when no one can communicate with each other.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 11:01 | 3399572 gtb
    gtb's picture

    What city?

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:37 | 3399166 hivekiller
    hivekiller's picture

    This is a bullshit article. Most of the Mexicans in this country are poorly educated and dependent on welfare.They make up 16 percent of the population and 30 percent of those on welfare. According to Shadow Stats, the unemployment rate in Calif. is 28 percent. Nationally it's 23 percent. So do we need more immigrants? Labor is imported here from elsewhere to lower the cost. And border crossings are double so saying that immigration from Mexico has stopped is an outright lie. Those coming from the Phillippines and the Dominican Republic are almost as dumb and worthless as those coming from Mexico. The idea is to displace Americans and create a populaton of economic refugees who are here for one reason only - welfare or a job. Like worker bees, they have no other function.

     

     

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:40 | 3399179 azzhatter
    azzhatter's picture

    How about fix your own fucking country instead of ruining another country

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:45 | 3399207 DoneThis2Long
    DoneThis2Long's picture

    Bingo.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 09:54 | 3399266 therearetoomany...
    therearetoomanyidiots's picture

    I gave an up arrow but hey, we're doing a fine job ruining it ourselves, we don't need no mexicans, or anyone else for that matter, to help.

    Tue, 04/02/2013 - 11:09 | 3399599 DoneThis2Long
    DoneThis2Long's picture

    Con(gressman) Gutierez of Illinois was among the organizers of the huge (million ???) march by illegals for rights!!!!!

    That POS should have been thrown out of office w/ loss of all benefits.

    How about the Congress Democrats giving a standing O to a Mexican president bashing Arizona's efforts of doing the fed's law enforment job. Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhJ91jrZVIM.

    Those fuckers are (still) representing us????

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