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Bitcoins Go Parabolic

Tyler Durden's picture


In the last 48 hours, the price of the virtual currency has surged by 50% from $94 to $141 as the rate of expansion goes more than parabolic. This leaves us with the question, which line item on the Fed's Balance Sheet is 'Virtual Currency Transactions'... what better way to destroy an up and coming currency competitor than to blow a bubble in it and explode it?

That is a 14x rise since the start of the year...


Source: BitCoinCharts


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Wed, 04/03/2013 - 10:31 | 3403115 Capitalist
Capitalist's picture

The true test of a libertarian is whether they accept Bitcoin as just another competing form of money determined by the free market.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 10:37 | 3403135 Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

I get 502 Bad Gateway when I go to Did Uncle Sam shut them down?

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 10:38 | 3403149 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

bitcoin charts is just acting in unison with the fantasy US stock markets while real hard tangible assets are doing the inverse. Its obvious these days remind me of the days before the Tech bubble imploded.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 10:45 | 3403200 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I'm still a buyer of BTC at $140.  Will be buying BTC at $500 too.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 10:50 | 3403226 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Of course this is what happens to bitcoin.

I will take "zero counter party risk" for 100, Alex.



Wed, 04/03/2013 - 10:56 | 3403266 TerminalDebt
TerminalDebt's picture

How do I short BTC?


Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:03 | 3403280 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



How do I short BTC?

You could go to work with these folks...

"You'll keep the banking industry robust and secure and represent the United States in the monetary arena. It's a challenge that demands the skills of a financial services professional and the intellectual curiosity of an academic, all combined with a passion for public service."

Plus, service gurantees citizenship.  Want to know more?

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:06 | 3403316 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

I just wanna kill bugs, sir!

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:14 | 3403352 Manthong
Manthong's picture

So what kind of exercise should one do to develop hands strong enough to hold on to electrons?

just asking..

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:22 | 3403428 redpill
redpill's picture

I'm a bitcoin skeptic from the standpoint of what the government could/would/will do to crush them if they actually became a threat to central bank fiat, but I also have no problem if people want to speculate in them or buy some to make a philosophical statement.

And, instead of going around in circles with the same arguments we always have about BTC, I'll just note that we've all seen enough charts around here to know that patterns like this can't last forever. So whatever your purpose is in participating in the BTC market is, just use caution folks. This thing could snap in whatever direction at any time given all the crazy shit happening in the world.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:28 | 3403493 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I would advise caution to those socialist fools who remain wedded to their government issued paper rectangles and fractional-reserve fraud houses!

Bitcoin is going to tear you apart!!

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:34 | 3403499 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

In order to kill sentiment and tarnish the hell out of BTC, a huge bubble NEEDS to be inflated first.  Criminal bankers know how to play this game.  Inflate slowly, then rapidly, then late money joins in, gets crushed, and everyone will leave.

The main problem I have with BTC, though, is that there is nothing tangible.  It's all digital, and a plug can literally be pulled at any time.


Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:38 | 3403529 phalfa5
phalfa5's picture

where do they attach the electrodes i wonder...


Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:55 | 3403610 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Look at my comments get junked by faux-libertarian silver stackers who recite century old platitudes about "free markets", "competition", "fiscal responsibility" blah, blah, blah f*'n, blah (all good unless the free markets don't pump YOUR preferred method of payment!)

I think you really secretly love Ben and his paper rectangles!  What else would explain your always comparing the silver-FRN ratio?  You could use silver-copper, you could use silver-oil, silver-gold, silver-nickel, silver-soy but nope.... you LOVE using the silver-FRN because secretly you want those green rectangles to make some type of miracle come-back story.  Sorry, it ain't happening and Bitcoin is here to prove that to you in the worse kind of way!!

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:01 | 3403639 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Keep provin' it!  I LOVE IT!  All this time you really loved Ben and held out hope for the USD!! 


I'll even help you out and junk this one myself!!

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:06 | 3403678 Citium
Citium's picture

LOL trolling ZH "fake" libertarians. Good luck with that bubble you got pumping friend. I support you bitcoin guys in principle but when hard money advocates try to vocalize some of their personal concerns you guys go all militant. Just another indication of a pump and dump scheme.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:14 | 3403727 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I've got a lot more riding in physical silver than I do in BTC but it is funny how people support "free markets" until it doesn't look quite the way you expected it to.  Doesn't it now?

Maybe BTC is what takes us to the next era and maybe the network forks and it becomes worthless.  Either way that's the best $500 I ever spent to be part of the bravest, most daring monetary experiment in the past 500 years.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:43 | 3403883 Citium
Citium's picture

Like I said,  I support you Bitcoin guys in principle. Principle being that it is a decentralized currency outside the western banking system.

But most hard money advocates try to vocalize their concerns over the fact it has no intrinsic value, is not backed by any hard asset, that no one knows who the inventor is and who controls the controlling BTC market, That Btc has more overall risk of outside factors such as blockchains, electricity, governments, mt. gox/other wallet servers where hacking is more likely to take place and a nagging thought is that when the one world government has outwardly expressed a desire for a one world digital currency why would we as libertarians support a one world digital currency? If people have a hard time buying into it why can't you just say cool and go on? Well because early investors need new investors to make them money...aka a pump and dump.

Also most of us get tired of the false argument that fiat solely means "by force or edict" because a HUGE part of something being fiat means it has no intrinsic value... That is why the governments have to decree it, it is inherantly worthless without it.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 13:02 | 3404000 fonestar
fonestar's picture

The fact that Bitcoin is intangible is part of it's strength and not a weakness.  Intangible items cannot be confiscated and stolen the way a gold or silver bar can be.  You can't steal a math problem or an idea.  Also, anyone who loves liberty should get behind Bitcoin because it is a one-world digital currency that "they" do not control.  The Canadian Mint and Bank of Canada is already pushing the Mint Chip so you better get on board and join the fight.  This battle takes place in virtual cyber-space as well.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 13:13 | 3404066 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

Case in point, the Euphoria Phase.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 13:15 | 3404082 fonestar
fonestar's picture

No, Bitcoin finally represents RATIONAL EXUBERANCE

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 13:22 | 3404113 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

Hey, man, it's your euphoria. You do what you want with it. 

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 15:49 | 3404908 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

Bitcoin cannot become the one world currency.  That's gold.  Bitcoin is open-source and anyone can create their version.  I hope a thousand flowers bloom from this, because maybe it can even be improved.  How?  well, I think day in and day out and have no idea on how to improve it.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 16:08 | 3405084 gold-is-not-dead
gold-is-not-dead's picture

Gold needs to be accounted in something, to be freely and fairly liquid globally. It isn't $ or eu since in those terms the market doesn't sets the price, but rather central banks.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 14:00 | 3404285 Citium
Citium's picture

If your goal was to only answer one of my concerns then kudos to you.

Why don't we ask megaupload or pirate bay how it's going for them on the "can't take it because it's intangible" aspect... (The government doesn't care if you steal a song or movie or a public file right ?!? So why would they care if you are taking an intangible amount from their currency monopoly... /s)

Laughable dude. That's the equivalent to saying "Online bank accounts are safe because they are digital phantoms of hard currency, thus they cannot be confiscated." And don't say it's completely different because the banks are in control of online FRN's... It's apparent that no BTC'er knows for 100% certainty that bitcoin isn't a CIA or NSA job to rush people out of real money and into something they completely control. All the while the people have convinced themselves it's completely private but still can't answer who the creator Satoshi is and if that person has any ties to the alphabet agencies, or even who took control over the mass of bitcoins in the beginning or after the flash crash to zero in 2011. The whole story of Bitcoin is full of holes but you guys are too caught up in a bubble mania to stop and really give some critical thought to what, and more importantly, WHO you are supporting.

Boom, then someone gets Cyrpus'd or MFGlobal'd. ......and it's gone.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 14:31 | 3404470 fonestar
fonestar's picture

People know who "Satoshi" probably is and it doesn't matter.  What matters is the proof of work, what matters is that it is working, has been working for four years in the harshest climate on Earth.  Satoshi does not want to be tortured and killed, suicided.  That's why he doesn't divulge his name because he is brilliant and has made himself an enemy of all the most powerful and evil inhabitants of this planet. 

What's laughable is your idea that these alphabet soup agencies would knowingly cut their own throats by even being involved in a project like Bitcoin.  If Timothy May and the cypher punks saw p2p currencies, file sharing, democratic and decentralized computing twenty years ago do you think perhaps these agencies did too?

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 14:55 | 3404597 Citium
Citium's picture

You upvote yourself every single time you post don't you?

Ok... what I heard was:

We know who satoshi is and it's irrelevant so stop your wondering mind...

The work itself is proof that no one from the NSA or CIA has their hands in operating this... *this is my favorite personally*

The agencies would cut their own throat... kinda like Anonymous, Controlled oposition etc. etc.

Sorry you can keep your bitcoins because I firmly believe that when this thing comes down there will be 0...ZERO!! faith in digital representations of unbacked currencies. It's going back to barter days for a while and what you can touch with your hands after everyone gets burned playing the illusory wealth game.

Bitcoin does have a place though but I feel it won't be realized as a valid technology until after the crash and some sort of honesty is put back into the system again. I think failing to understand this is a fatal flaw in bitcoin thinking. But hey if you put 500$ and are willing to lose that money betting on a new technology then go right ahead, my problem is not with you or anyone investing in bitcoin. My problem is the hyperbole surrounding bitcoin that it is the 2nd coming or cyberchrist and will bring down the fed and that Libertarians are fake if they do not support this even with all the legitimate concerns I have seen expressed.

As a libertarian I promote competing currencies which bitcoin is. I think you understand the difference between wealth preservation and a day to day business currency. If you know the economy is going to crash why wouldn't you want to be in the historical wealth preserver? In fact if all paper government currencies fail what will bitcoin be measured in to know what it's worth. It's not like you can accurately state that one bitcoin is worth one nice suit or a gallon of gas or a loaf of bread.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 15:46 | 3404879 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I am not concerned that much with votes, rather I am hedging my junked positions here.

If you believe that BTC will go to nothing during the collapse of the fiat currencies, effectively what you are saying is that people are going to lose faith in technology and transfer of payment as well.  That is not happening and I don't see how anyone could believe such a thing.  Sure, the US will go through hell as it will likely be the epicenter and grande-finale for this whole thing but other places on Earth are going to do just fine and even profit from it.  A far more likely scenario is that crypto-currencies flourish and become inextricably linked to the internet itself.  The public internet will undergo major transormations, becoming more decentralized and moving towards dark-net technologies.  I am not saying Bitcoin is guaranteed to get us there but it is a major step in the right direction.  A free internet, free society and crypto-currencies will stand or fall together.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:59 | 3403974 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

How many Bitcoins do I need to buy one share of webvan stock?

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 13:16 | 3404075 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Let's say I ran a lawn cutting service & charged $50 to cut a 1 acre lawn [which is more or less the going rate]... Let's say that a year ago & was willing to dabble in this BITCOIN baloney & accept 5 bitcoins for my services...


Are you telling me, NOW, that it's gonna cost you $750 to cut your lawn? [Cause 1/3 of a bitcoin isn't going to 'cut' it & I doubt you can afford 5]

HENCE ~ the problem with bitcoin... [which is the problem with all things that take on a 'commodity' type flavor]... It's being valued by the speculative price fluctuations ~ NOT the equivalent labor value...

Someday ~ you bitcoin morons will understand that...

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 13:27 | 3404131 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Seems pretty clear the "morons" are the ones who do not yet grasp the game has changed.  If you are still a person who chooses to remain part of the legacy economy, your costs to mow that lawn rise exponentially.  If you (and the smart people) all chose to move over to the newer, superior economic model, costs would stabilize and you wouldn't need to arbitrage lawn mowing between two incompatible economic systems.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 15:30 | 3404779 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

OK ~ Geeksquad... Fine


I'll agree... RIGHT NOW... To come over to your house & cut your lawn for $750... [you can cash in 5 of your bitcoins, now, to pay me]...

Oh that's right... You live in your mom's basement & therefore don't require my lawn cutting services...

Maybe... INSTEAD... You're hungry... You come over to my restaurant & order the fancy wine & the dry aged steak dinner [to impress your new girlfriend]... Tab comes to $150 [without the tip]... You swipe me ONE bitcoin... I say... 'SORRY PAL'...

You're washing dishes...

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 15:51 | 3404931 fonestar
fonestar's picture

You have only seen the warm, fuzzy and friendly side of emerging technologies so far in the internet era.  You have no clue of what is to come!

If a person is not ever-vigilant about emerging technologies you are gone, you are toast!  Wealthy one moment and it is you who will be washing the dishes the next moment.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 16:48 | 3405290 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

All Fine...


Notwithstanding... GEEKSQUAD... You just 'priced yourself out of' a dinner & a lawn cutting service [by one SERVICE PROVIDER]... Good luck with all the rest of them as you carry on...

[+2] for FONESTAR tus far... [He & the dude he's playing 'World of Warcraft']


OK geeksquad ~ I'll flip the narrative... If you pay me $150, right now, I'll come over & cut your lawn... [Hell ~ It'll only cost you one cashed in bitcoin... IT'S A FUCKING BARGAIN! Jump on it]...


Tylers... TYLERS!... [OK ~ I'll be calm... I believe that ZH should allow EVERY moron a voice ~ I'll leave the jew sychophants on their own on this particular thread]....

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 16:06 | 3405071 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

what kind of nutjob are you?  replace bitcoin with gold or silver in your rant and look at yourself in the mirror

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 17:17 | 3405303 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture



Offer me 2 ASE's to cut your lawn & I'll still do it... Offer me 5 ASE's & I'll serve you & your girlfriend a nice steak dinner with a bottle of wine... Offer me 1/3 of a bitcoin, or 1 bitcoin, respectively, & you've got long grass & a hungry, sober girlfriend, who won't blow your pencil dick at the end of the evening...

That's commerce...

Edit: No 'TAKERS' on the offer... just interenet junks... How could I have possibly predicted that?


Tylers ~ that's your audience these days... Do what you must...


Wed, 04/03/2013 - 17:48 | 3405682 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Where are these free markets you speak of?

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:07 | 3403685 Middle_Finger_Market
Middle_Finger_Market's picture're like a Bitcoin slut and the end game involves you getting fucked! 

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:21 | 3403766 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Ya, so?


0.0001BTC will get you twenty minutes with a "release":



Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:34 | 3403847 InTheLandOfTheBlind
InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

pretty sure we all get that... like grandpa always said, make sure you last check bounces

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:34 | 3403852 InTheLandOfTheBlind
InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

pretty sure we all get that... like grandpa always said, make sure you last check bounces

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:35 | 3403854 InTheLandOfTheBlind
InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

pretty sure we all get that... like grandpa always said, make sure you last check bounces

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 15:29 | 3404783 Idisq
Idisq's picture

all right already!!! :-)

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:08 | 3403700 jcaz
jcaz's picture

LOL- that's so precious...  Ya, they invented an alternative currency, cause they're sooo smart and cool and hip-  the head dude even wears a hat during his interviews, he's freaking hawt.....

What next- BTC invents a plastic card that we can stick into machines and pay for stuff?    BTC 2.0!


Wed, 04/03/2013 - 16:10 | 3405087 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

mock what ye don't understand


some cavemen still scoff at fire.... true story

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:09 | 3403701 jomama
jomama's picture

who fucking cares about upvotes/downvotes?

might lend some insight into where your priorities are.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:22 | 3403762 Killtruck
Killtruck's picture

I don't really mind your views, but gawd you're fucking annoying. Blathering on endlessly like some damn Baghdad Bob about this shit. Everyone gets it, you're a fan. Make your point, then stop.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:03 | 3403653 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Amazing isn't it? All this bitching about a rigged one casino game and when a decentralized alternative comes up it's some Crypto-Zio-JupiterJustice-Masonic-CIA-Banker-Jew plot already. LOL.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:27 | 3403776 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"it's got this, like, kinda weird computer stuff and so it must be some sorta scam er somethin'"

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 15:48 | 3404901 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

I think people are understandably a bit gunshy about storing wealth in something that isn't tangible.  I think it's certainly better than, say, the USD or the EUR, way better.  

The idea of "if you don't hold it, you don't own it" is the operative idea here behind any genuine criticism of bitcoin.  Apart from that, it's great.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 16:31 | 3405259 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Yes, the corporeal argument.  Just remember what you can hold, someone else can hold as well and someone can take.  Physical mediums of exchange are not only sought after by bankers, gold bugs and governments.  They're also held in high esteem by any thug who can pack a pistol or a knife (both types of thugs, the kind that wear badges and the kind that sport do-rags).  The ethereal nature of Bitcoin and the genius of Satoshi (and RSA) seem a little harder for these types to appreciate.  That is a bonus in my books.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:31 | 3403823 InTheLandOfTheBlind
InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

free markets are nothing but an ideaology.  Until FRN become unpoliticized and backed by something more than hot air, there are no free markets.  I cringe every time i hear the phrase because 90% of the time it is being used to justify some political talking point that has no basis in reality.  A point in case in wind farm subsidies.  People argue constantly that the free market should decide.  What free market?  How many end users get a choice from where they get there electricity from?  the answer is very very few if any at all.  The whole argument is moot.  There is no free market in any form of absolute terms, except for maybe the black market.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:58 | 3403969 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

I have nothing against bitcoins. You, however, are an overgrown adolescent and a dick.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 14:50 | 3404593 msmith9962
msmith9962's picture

I'm not against bitcoin.  Could play a small part of a well rounded outside the system holding.  But holy shit getting some is confusing as hell for us non technical types.  That needs to be fixed otherwise a lot of people will be discouraged.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:57 | 3403614 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

To your nipples....

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:58 | 3403627 fuu
fuu's picture


Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:07 | 3403692 phalfa5
phalfa5's picture

ohhhh     tingley  ...

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 13:01 | 3403984 unrulian
unrulian's picture

....cue the TV infomercials>>>

WOW...for $29.95 i'll send you a 10 disk dvd collection on how you too can get rich mining bitcoins.....but wait if you call in the next 8...7:59....7:58...minutes, i'll send you another set for a friend for just the cost of shipping and processing.....but wait that's not all.... i'll also send you this free pamphlet on our other great products including buying real estate with other peoples money and.....

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 14:23 | 3404417 Jena
Jena's picture

It's the shipping and handling where you can make real money.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 15:02 | 3404663 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Bitcoin is letting us seperate the men from the boys here.  Those who want real markets and real economies and those who still think in terms of imaginary lines called "borders", those who see "value" in little pieces of paper.  How sad to watch you try and fight an enemy when you think just as he would wish you to think!

I have come unto you to preach the gospel of Satoshi!

I have seen the future of capitalism and it looks a lot like, well.... anarchy!

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 21:30 | 3406437 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

I think your Graphix needs reloading. P.S. Deadheads did it way before you Burning Man playa fools came along.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:38 | 3403533 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"what better way to destroy an up and coming currency competitor than to blow a bubble in it and explode it?"

You mean like they did to gold and silver?

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:07 | 3403665 TheCanadianAustrian
TheCanadianAustrian's picture

If the Fed wanted to destroy Bitcoin, blowing a bubble would be the most idiotic thing they could do. Moves like these only serve to increase awareness of Bitcoin. The virtual currency has already experienced crashes of 90% and has went on to make new highs every time.

Everyone should stop reading too much into this event. Bitcoin is a highly speculative asset class that is still in its infancy. Its potential value is still hundreds, maybe thousands of times higher than what it's trading for today. It can't reach its potential value overnight, and it can't get there without experiencing some severe setbacks. These parabolic moves should be completely expected, and yes, there will probably be another 90+% crash sometime in the near future. Nobody should jump to any conclusions regarding violent moves, up or down, as these are nothing more than growing pains in an asset that is still extremely hard to value in any objective way.

Regardless of what you think about an asset that has no intrinsic value, keep in mind that one Bitcoin has the same rarity as 300 ounces of gold. Does an asset really deserve a 99.99% penalty in its value simply because it can't be used for certain jewelry and semiconductor applications?

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:19 | 3403754 CommunityStandard
CommunityStandard's picture

I will gladly sell you a digital hamburger for some of your digital currency.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:42 | 3403881 natronic
natronic's picture

If the Feds wanted to destroy bitcoin they would tell ALL ISP's to block port 8333, or they would do some other packet filtering to block all bitcoin traffic.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 13:36 | 3404183 vulcanraven
vulcanraven's picture

Or they would just make it illegal for merchants to accept it, citing some sort of "terrrorist money laundering" narrative or the like.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 14:55 | 3404625 fonestar
fonestar's picture

let 'em  block it!

tunnel, tunnel, tunnel....

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:45 | 3403900 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

--- one Bitcoin has the same rarity as 300 ounces of gold.---

Did you really just say that?

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:58 | 3403972 TheCanadianAustrian
TheCanadianAustrian's picture

Did I really just say something that's true and easily verifiable? Um, yeah. Why do you ask?

Oh wait, let me guess. You're one of those people that thinks that a bitcoin is "a bunch of zeroes and ones stored on a hard drive".

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 13:02 | 3403991 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

LMFAO!  and you must be a CIA troll that thinks it isn't.   Halarious.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 13:06 | 3404035 TheCanadianAustrian
TheCanadianAustrian's picture

Go get a CompSci degree and then read the official Bitcoin FAQ. Then come back and comment.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 13:51 | 3404249 unrulian
unrulian's picture

did you really just say that?

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 17:13 | 3405508 akak
akak's picture

You just highlighted the inherent weakness and flaw of Bitcoin: only an uber-cyber-geek can apparently even begin to understand it.

Gold and silver, on the other hand, require neither a PhD in computer technology, nor a fragile, complex and easily compromised infrastructure in order to function as money.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 21:24 | 3406420 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Let's see, hire some phreak with dreads that looks like Bassnectar to run some computers while he smokes the kine, or hire 500 people to move cranes and dig 1000 feet in the ground for a rare metal. What takes more effort. Hrmm......

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:38 | 3403534 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Let them join in their own demise!  They can help inflate if they want but they cannot inflate without deflating their own fraudulent currencies.  They cannot do this without leading people to some poignant questions, "what is money?"  Without introducing them to a superior system of transfer.

It will be the last mistake they make!  To the bankster I say, "entrez-vous monsieur!"

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:13 | 3403723 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

What plug can be pulled? I admit, it's not impossible, but it would be much easier to pull that "plug" on gold, silver, farmland, guns etc, because this stuff is tangible. 

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:22 | 3403770 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

I don't honestly know what plug can be pulled.  But what I do know is that the criminal bankers could care less about laws.  Everything is open to attack, which is why I would rather choose owning something tangible, like farm land or gold.  Just my preference, as the grab for any asset not held locally is clearly in the works.  I don't think BTC is excluded.

I completely support the Bitcoin premise.  I think it has to happen and is definitely viable.  However, I also believe that the criminal governments around the world are not going to let it keep rising in competition with their established mediums of exchange.


Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:31 | 3403825 DosZap
DosZap's picture


but it would be much easier to pull that "plug" on gold, silver, farmland, guns etc, because this stuff is tangible.

No it would not,first you have to FIND tangible/real/physical objects.(i.e. Seize them)

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 14:01 | 3404293 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

I agree, that you have to find that stuff, but farmland is not hard to find. Other tangible assets can be confiscated as you bring them out of a certain jurisdiction or try to use them.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:34 | 3403850 bagehot99
bagehot99's picture

LOL, whereas the US Dollar is backed by a room full of servers at the Fed!! Much safer!!

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:34 | 3403856 bagehot99
bagehot99's picture

LOL, whereas the US Dollar is backed by a room full of servers at the Fed!! Much safer!!

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:31 | 3403500 InTheLandOfTheBlind
InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

any exercise that turns their net charge positive

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 15:06 | 3404366 Meatier Shower
Meatier Shower's picture

The enemy can't hit the print button if you disable his hand!

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:12 | 3403360 Karlus
Karlus's picture

Does it come with a crack at 19 yr old Denise Richardson, or hanging out with prune faced 300 pounders all day?

Also, will I need to have fucked up hair and Mens Warehouse suits like TimmyG?

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:14 | 3403385 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

The Bernank Bug from the planet KlendaJEW

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:02 | 3403661 BC6
BC6's picture

I just want to hook up with Desi!

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:49 | 3403918 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

This is for you new people. Everybody fights. Nobody quits. If you don't do your job, I'll shoot you myself.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:06 | 3403317 TerminalDebt
TerminalDebt's picture

Those people drive the price up.

BTC going up is an indication that people are afraid of Dollar collapse

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:23 | 3403442 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

My bet is that Bitcoin going up like this is an indication that .GOV is trying to kill the competition. Use infinite money supply to first overbuy then oversell and you could make Bitcoin into a synonym for "dangerous fad bubble market". A year from now will the MSM talking heads be bad mouthing gold and silver by saying "It looks like the precious metals are going Bitcoin on us". I have a very bad feeling about this rise in price. It has the sulfurous smell of the Fed/Treasury.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:37 | 3403530 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

I missed the BitCoin bandwagon. Hell I didn't even know they had a BitWagon.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:28 | 3403805 akak
akak's picture

That's because you are not a bitcuckoo.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:19 | 3403422 forwardho
forwardho's picture

Now Hedge, you be nice now, that was just plain mean.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:35 | 3403516 XitSam
XitSam's picture

The Fed should take that course in History and Moral Philosophy. 

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:08 | 3403338 ADirtyChapCalle...
ADirtyChapCalledWanker's picture

There's really no easy way. There's an options, futures, and stock exchange, but a 30 BTC fee to join. 

I did see it floated that some have been shorting using eBay, but you can see how inefficient that is, especially when most of the buying on eBay is .1 or .01 btc. 

Even arbitrage with btc is incredibly difficult, even though the spreads can be enormous.

The infrastructure is so nascent, but there's something enticing about the Wild West feel it has to it.  

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 16:01 | 3405006 L G Butz PhD
L G Butz PhD's picture

tulips felt great for some time

and then

not so much

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:10 | 3403339 ADirtyChapCalle...
ADirtyChapCalledWanker's picture

There's really no easy way. There's an options, futures, and stock exchange, but a 30 BTC fee to join. 

I did see it floated that some have been shorting using eBay, but you can see how inefficient that is, especially when most of the buying on eBay is .1 or .01 btc. 

Even arbitrage with btc is incredibly difficult, even though the spreads can be enormous.

The infrastructure is so nascent, but there's something enticing about the Wild West feel it has to it.  

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:09 | 3403344 fonestar
fonestar's picture

To those of you who believe Bitcoin is a bubble, watch and learn!

Watch as a foreign, deflationary predator is introduced amongst your fiat heard of sheep!  The carnage will be absolute and beautiful!  There is no putting this genie back in the bottle!  The deflationary tiger does not care if you like him, does not care if you prefer gold and silver, does not care if you mock him.  The only thing that you need to understand is the damage will be thorough and the gravitational pull will tear your universe apart.  All the fiat bubble dreams torn to pieces.  All of the suburban lives covered in the blood spatter left by the deflationary tiger!

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:15 | 3403367 hedgeless_horseman
Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:19 | 3403413 CommunityStandard
CommunityStandard's picture

That's one deflationary tiger!

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:33 | 3403420 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Doesn't Ben look fucking magnificant in that great hat?  It is made from the scrotums of equity bears.

Every Central Banker wants just one of those deflationary tiger rugs, and Ben already has dozens of them.  They really do tie a room together.


Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:43 | 3403547 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Yeah not surprising to see your socialist, central planning hero wearing his ushanka.  Just needs the red star on it.

Bitcoin will not be stopped!

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:11 | 3403641 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Bitcoin will not be stopped!

Yes, this type of mania (irrational exuberance) is exactly what Bernanke wants.  Please, allow me to line up Bernanke's sight picture for you.

The risk that legislation by the government could significantly alter the business prospects of one or more companies, adversely affecting investment holding in that company. This may occur as a direct result of government action or by altering the demand patterns of the company''s customers.


           Bitcoin will not be stopped!

+     altering the demand patterns 

+                    Bitcoins Go Parabolic

+     legislation by the government 

=               Deflationary Tiger Rug


Wed, 04/03/2013 - 13:02 | 3403993 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture


Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:22 | 3403433 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Because the deflationary tiger is the pinnacle of virtualization and crptographic technologies, as well as embodying all of the best attributes of physical cash, he is impervious to the legal hacks, their legacy firearms and projectiles.  He is a ghost tiger, only materializing in this world before he tears your jugular veins out.

It is time now to watch our legal and political system flounder.  Watch them as they are thrown around like mice by a curious cat before he kills them and tears them apart!

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:31 | 3403818 akak
akak's picture

Aren't you taking your Bitcoinapalooza here a bit too far?

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:47 | 3403905 fuu
fuu's picture

Are you bitching about it?

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 20:43 | 3406296 Long_Xau
Long_Xau's picture

A bit of Bitcoin bitching, bitte!

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 22:00 | 3406530 fuu
fuu's picture

It's been a bitter conversation.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 13:00 | 3403989 Cui Bono
Cui Bono's picture

I think Fonestar is giving us all the raspberry.

Chillax man... this place is not filled to the brim with farthuffingpopo folks in love with fiat.

I want to see the bears have Bitcoin fight the Bernak

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 15:52 | 3404898 Croesus
Croesus's picture

@ The Canadian Austrian and Fonestar:

This is how I know Bitcoin is going to crash:

First, read the end statement of Canadian Austrian's comment here:

Quote: "keep in mind that one Bitcoin has the same rarity as 300 ounces of gold."

It's pretty commonly accepted here on ZH that Gold is undervalued, BUT even at the manipulated low price of $1,557/oz. Canadian Austrian just valued the Bitcoin @ $467,100, thereby valuing the BTC market @ $9,809,100,000,000. (when all 21M are mined). 

So, you just assigned a valuation to Bitcoin that is $2+ Trillion higher than the GDP of China?

$500 Billion higher than all of the fiat paper on deposit at US Banks?

You always know a crash is coming, when a market gets crowded by the clueless.




Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:26 | 3403475 natronic
natronic's picture

I think the original "investors" are shorting it.................and other people will lose their shorts.  I've heard of stupid things and i've done stupid things..............BUTTCOIN has to take the cake............thank god i'm not THAT dumb

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:34 | 3403512 InTheLandOfTheBlind
InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

might not be that dumb, but you could have made a lot of money if you would have been smart... just saying  

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:35 | 3403522 XitSam
XitSam's picture

'smart' meaning 'able to predict the future'

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:54 | 3403604 natronic
natronic's picture

Future prediction.  FNMA Fannie Mae is at $.088/share   3 - 6 months it will be around $5/share.  I'm buying 

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 14:56 | 3404621 InTheLandOfTheBlind
InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

no... smart meaning "read the writing on the wall".  in new way of getting peoples money somewhere else seems to be the rational choice since all other methods will be more heavily guarded

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:03 | 3403649 FanCap
FanCap's picture

You can sell futures contracts on

Go ahead, I'll buy all of them from you.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:03 | 3403650 FanCap
FanCap's picture

You can sell futures contracts on

Go ahead, I'll buy all of them from you.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 16:13 | 3405127 Long_Xau
Long_Xau's picture

The old-fashioned way you can:
1. Borrow BTC (loans and options)
2. then sell them (
3. To exit the position, buy them back (
4. and pay the loan back.

Or you can use options ( and again or futures (
You might find more ways here:

Before you do it you might need either a good reputation or collateral or both. You also need to find out who you can trust yourself, I can't do that for you.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 10:57 | 3403269 jazze
jazze's picture

Did any of y'all know that bitcoin's largest exchange has withdrawal limits?!!


I thought the beauty of BTC was free movement of your money... Max 100btc or 1000$ per 24hr LOL.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:00 | 3403279 Short Memories
Short Memories's picture

LOL, like Cyprus?

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:10 | 3403358 Political_Savage
Political_Savage's picture

Is that just for that exchange or is it systemic?

That's a bit of a game-changer for me. I wasn't big on BTC to begin with, but that REALLY makes me suspicious.


Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:57 | 3403622 zilverexmachina
zilverexmachina's picture

just for exchanges, they have nothing to do with bitcoin as such

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:09 | 3403346 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

they can set their own rules and you can transfer as many as you want to someone else as you please.. be a big boy 


Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:17 | 3403403 butchee
butchee's picture

The parable of the parabola:  all's well that ends well.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:12 | 3403373 malikai
malikai's picture

Withdrawl limits are generally a useful security effect. If an exchange is properly run, they use hot, warm, and cold storage for BTC to ensure that if they get hacked clients don't get corzined. When you use wallets in this manner, you must implement limits to accomodate your hot and warm wallets.

Have a look at the BTC forums about securing your wallet and you'll get an idea about it.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:23 | 3403444 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

Monetary controls can be a bitch huh

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 16:39 | 3405306 Haole
Haole's picture

The exchange I use also has deposit and withdrawl limits.   All these exchanges adhere to thier respective jurisdictions' and governments' anti-money laundering regulations with regards to fiat.  This is how legitimate money transferring institutions do legal business.

For instance, I have a $30K per month withrawl limit on the exchange I use in Canada as a verified client.

The transfer of Bitcoin IS unlimited, it is only when one wants to convert it into fiat again are they subject to withrawl limits, capital gains taxes, AML regulations, etc. as with fiat.

Many people are still in the dark as to how BTC works or is transacted with or how it legally interfaces with fiat and the conventional banking system again if one wishes.  Many people that hold Bitcoin never intend to trade it back into fiat currency in the first place so the technicality you speak of is irrelevant and moot to a large degree.

Then again, the main thing on ZH is how many up votes one gets so nice job.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 10:59 | 3403273 Short Memories
Short Memories's picture

Don't care if it calms up or calms down but I'm not touching them till they calm.

The sharks are in now and when the food is gone they will scatter taking a fair chunk of the value with them


Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:19 | 3403228 colin
colin's picture

i will give u one monster box for a bitcoin.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 10:52 | 3403240 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

At this point in time, it is hard to judge whether you're on the stairway to heaven or on the highway to hell. So much faith... I admire you BTCers, though I think Bitcoin is stupid.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 13:51 | 3404251 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

 though I think Bitcoin is stupid.

Everyone has the right to be wrong about something, so no worries.  :D

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 10:54 | 3403251 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

The real question is, why aren't you buying hard assets like gold and silver instead?


Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:00 | 3403282 PaperWillBurn
PaperWillBurn's picture

Easier / faster to transfer bitcoins around the world than it is metal. They both have a role to serve.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:08 | 3403325 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

What happens if the site gets hacked or the internet goes down?

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:13 | 3403369 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

yeah the internet goes down..  wow people - if that happens what about all other transactions?


and what will you do without ZeroHedge?  wouldn't that be more of an issue than losing all your digital wealth?

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:27 | 3403471 Matt
Matt's picture

Much bigger problem: at this moment in time, two men control bitcoin, and are free to double-spend at will or change the protocol as desired: the two mining pool operaters with >50% of the hashrate under their control:

Exactly the thing that bitcoin, as a "decentralized" currency, is supposed to prevent.

Now, I'm not saying that both of those two men are greedy or have a desire to destroy bitcoin or exploit for personal gain, but at this moment, they wield the power to do so.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:07 | 3403684 seek
seek's picture

Uh, none of the miners have > 50% of the hash rate. And two with more than 50% woud imply over 100%.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:13 | 3403720 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Wait, so who do I go to in the Philippine's to turn my Bitcoins into Philippine Peso's? Oh that's right. NOBODY. Is there a master list of companies that will turn my Bitcoins into Philippine Peso's? NO. Can I eat a monthly subscription to MEGA? Last I checked, people in the Philippines still want my gold and silver though, and will turn it into Peso's in a fucking heartbeat.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:13 | 3403722 Matt
Matt's picture

A+B = 51%. Together, BTC Guild + Slush have over 50% at this moment.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 20:47 | 3406313 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

I'm really not trying to fluff them but this is an interesting take on dealing with the 51% problem implemented in one of the alt crypto-currencies out there. Tech people and such can debate the merits of it.

Trying to solve the 51% attack issue inherent in cryptocurrency designs like Bitcoin is quite challenging. On the one hand it is fantastic having thousands of nodes around the world processing transactions, on the other it is also quite the security issue. In his Bitcoin paper, Satoshi identified several issues, with the 51% attack being the greatest.

So what is the 51% attack? To understand that you have to understand how Bitcoin works. Essentially Bitcoin is a collection of nodes performing "virtual work", the more work you do the higher your rating on the network. So what happens when malicious users get together and manage to do more "virtual work" than the "good people" ? Well that is the 51% attack, and it basically means you can wake up tomorrow with zero Bitcoins in your wallet. It means any business that accepts Bitcoins can get robbed and have all their goods taken with fake Bitcoins. It also means if they wanted, governments, large corporations or hackers can "shut down the network" by refusing to accept any new transactions. Complete network shutdown. Can't do anything with your Bitcoins, neither can anyone else.

Now obviously Bitcoin proponents will say things like "Yes well we just need to pool together the good users" or "it's unlikely anyone will have that much network power" . Yet as this article is being written one person (deepbit) controls nearly 50% of the Bitcoin network. One person. Could you operate a Bitcoin business in conditions where you the only thing standing between you and complete bankrupty is words like "well only if" or "it's sort of unlikely, but" ? Will any serious business open themselves up to a group of hackers able to steal millions of dollars from them? The short answer of course is NO.

Obviously to reach the next evolution of p2p cryptocurrencies we cannot sit around holding hands and praying that nefarious people don't attack the network. We know they will, it's human nature. Furthermore serious businesses will not accept a cryptocurrency until it's easy for them to implement, secure for them to do so and they can be sure their funds are as secure, if not more secure than funds in the traditional banking system.

How SolidCoin 2.0 solves it

SolidCoin takes a basic human trait found in many communities and systems. The more investment someone puts into a system, the more they want to protect that community or system. Pretty simple theory that most of us are familiar with, yet how does this relate to SolidCoin?

As with existing cryptocurrencies, SolidCoin 2.0 stores transactions in a "block chain" which is essentially what it sounds like. Transactions go into a block, nodes do work on that block to verify it, and if the work is good enough they can submit it to the rest of the network. SolidCoin 2.0 then comes into action, every _other_ block in the chain must be worked on by someone with at least a million (1,000,000) SolidCoins in an account.

Why can you trust someone with a million dollar account? Simply because if they have that many coins they are well invested into the SolidCoin system, if they tried to attack the network they would obviously devalue a great amount of their assets. But it's not just this simple, multiple people can have million dollar accounts so how do we sort out who is "more right" if they submit blocks at the same time? We trust the person with the most money, as they have the most to lose.

Some may say "but now you have only a few nodes on the network susceptible to being hacked". Well this is somewhat correct, however nothing is limiting the placement of the million dollar accounts on multiple nodes, therefore making the pinpointing harder. A new feature is being added to SolidCoin which also allows you to proxy where a block will "come out" onto the network, making identification of trusted nodes nearly impossible.

Unlike the Bitcoin model where Satoshi falsely thought you could rely on this relationship of CPUs being humans, with money accounts you can be pretty sure it is. The network is no longer susceptible to botnets, hackers, or even governments. The only way to attack the SC2.0 system is try to become the two or three largest account holders, and how would that happen? They'd have to buy SolidCoins just like everyone else, driving price up insanely in the process, that's even if people were willing to sell them enough SolidCoins.

One initial problem with this p2p security feature is SolidCoin only had 1.112 million coins prior to this security feature being implemented. To solve this, 10 accounts of 1.2 million were created in the genesis block. These are special accounts that cannot be spent on the network, effectively making them "Null accounts used for special purposes", until SolidCoin does have real millionaires.

With this new 51% protection feature there is a finally p2p cryptocurrency large businesses and users can rely on. Protected from major threats and attacks by governments, corporations and hack groups.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:18 | 3403746 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

My problem with Bitcoin is that it was conjured up in someone's mind, just like 'rothschild plantation script fiat-debt based money'.........


gold/silver come from the earth............Ill say it again, call me when the Saudi's are trading oil for bitcoins............

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 14:16 | 3404380 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

Are the Saudis taking Yen? Euros? Wampum?

Dont be a dick, dick.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:58 | 3403968 RebelDevil
RebelDevil's picture

55% + 55% = 110% = Idiotiotic

Don't be an idiot, and do the math!

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 14:51 | 3404591 Matt
Matt's picture

Learn to comprehend. Together, the two mining pools control over 50%. Obviously they cannot each exceed 50%.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:13 | 3403371 PaperWillBurn
PaperWillBurn's picture

So electricty ceases to exist? Is there still running water? Zombies?


I fucking hope there aren't any Zombies

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:23 | 3403446 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

There will be zombies all over the place after SHTF, and they won't be looking for your bitcoins...

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 20:49 | 3406319 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

They won't be looking for your gold either.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:34 | 3403518 InTheLandOfTheBlind
InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

i am assuming you mean that the electrical grid collapses.... elecricity will never cease to exist but 120 at 60hz from your outlet may

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:57 | 3403617 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Unfettered internet access is true normalcy bias.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 11:29 | 3403495 dbTX
dbTX's picture

How do you buy a bitcoin?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!