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Visualizing Bitcoin - The 'Encryption' Standard

Tyler Durden's picture


What currency is feared by the European Central Bank as a threat to fiat monetary institutions?  What currency is cash like but digitally transmittable allowing for ultimate anonymity and global mobility? What digital currency is up over 2,200% over the last year? The answer?  Bitcoin. From mining, supply, demand, and security, Visual Capitalist's infographic covers it all.



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Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:24 | 3408418 jcaz
jcaz's picture

What currency just got hacked by a bunch of 9th graders?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:26 | 3408421 CH1
CH1's picture

Damn, You beat me.

Was just about to write: Cue the Haters.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:30 | 3408449 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Bitcoin is a trade like buying tulips - it is not a currency.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:40 | 3408454 Ag Tex
Ag Tex's picture

You beat me to that one!  By the way, you need to kiss and make up with silver.  Time for you to get on silver's good side - like it or not.  The physical is about to snap the money changers over its knees.


Visualizing Bitcoin?  Picture tulips.
Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:38 | 3408505 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



.....and it's gone.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:46 | 3408540 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

It's ANOTHER Fiat !!!

I'll Take GOLD, Thanks ...

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:53 | 3408582 redpill
Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:06 | 3408673 fonestar
fonestar's picture

There is no reason to use an online wallet (for people who actually know what they're doing).

What is so hard about this to understand for some PM stackers?  Bitcoin does not fulfil the same requirements of gold and silver as a store of value.  Nobody is saying it does.  Likewise, gold and silver cannot match Bitcoin's ability to tunnel, transfer and superior fungibility.  You are comparing apple money and orange currency!

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:13 | 3408699 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

they'll never 'get it'


using an online wallet is like letting a bank hold your gold..  people here would agree if JPM stole your gold, then it is your fault, but not in this case since they don't know jack shit about bitcoins and it shows... loudly shows


note: bitcoin wallet by blockchain is a lot better if you want the ease of using an online one... but keep your large pile offline


Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:23 | 3408755 Diet Coke and F...
Diet Coke and Floozies's picture

What metals allow the creation of computer hardware to create and power bitcoins again? Are Bitcoins not a derivative of Gold and Silver?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:30 | 3408792 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

what metals have had their true value suppressed by central banks while sheep mock something that is showing the world the economic tyranny it is in?


Thu, 04/04/2013 - 14:33 | 3409146 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture



- Decentralized

- Secure

- Public

- Anonymous [great for kiddie porn]

- Digital

- Stable [as in 2,200 & over a year 'stable']





Thu, 04/04/2013 - 14:57 | 3409275 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Pretty clear that some people have this idea of the G-Man from their Dick Tracey comics that has all these cool gadgets, can crack any code and always wins against the evil genius.

In reality he's a fat, balding DHS guy who spends his time at work surfing pr0n sites and took a day-long course once on cyber crime.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 15:11 | 3409349 Badabing
Badabing's picture



if the FED hates it it's OK with me

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 15:33 | 3409437 fonestar
fonestar's picture


"Destroying the delusions of sentimental luddites since 2009"

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 15:44 | 3409487 Fleecer
Fleecer's picture

So... the supply of bitcoins is finite... because of the "rules" established by the bitcoin inventor "says so"?? 

Good thing there's no way to change a "rule" in a computer.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 15:49 | 3409502 fonestar
fonestar's picture

The rule would need to be agreed upon by the majority of nodes on the network.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 16:01 | 3409541 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

'Inventor' of BITCOIN

~~~ <jews & bitcoin GEEKS junk HERE>


Guaran-FUCKING-teed 'Satoshi Nakamoto' is a goddamned jew hoarding a fucking stash for himself & a few cronies while idiots pile on to the scam...

Proceed [or PROVE me otherwise you fucking dipshits]...

NO WAIT... Click on the above indicated JUNK button... You know ~ to prove all you numbwits MEAN BUSINESS...

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 16:07 | 3409567 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Well the Jewish people do rank highly on their mathematical comprehension so it's possible.  But Satoshi did not "invent" the bitcoin as much as it was a logical progression of the earlier works of Rivest, Shamir & Adleman and more.

Not that someone who is only here looking to get shock value from anti-semitic remarks would be bothered by facts though.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 16:25 | 3409634 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

The beast system is very happy with the evolution of BitCoin. Talking heads from Paul Krugman and Al Gore to Max Keiser endorse it. A global digital currency is exactly what the New World Ordered. It can make you rich, and it will also be incorporated with the Mark. What's more valuable, a fat wallet or a soul? Precious metals are the only escape unless you plan on being a vagrant.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 16:38 | 3409684 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Ah yes, "the mark of the beast" cop-out for the technophobe who cannot debate technical subjects objectively based on technical merits (I wonder why?).  Krugman did not endorse Bitcoin he said it would die a deflationary death, you can't even get that much right.  Al Gore said it was a "cool" idea and it's quite possible the power elite would love his endorsement of Bitcoin since he has been outted as a fraud in climate-gate.


Thu, 04/04/2013 - 18:17 | 3410076 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Oh I don't know - it was hearing about Stefan Thomas' loss of $140k wallet password that caused the NatGeo host to swear on a program, the first time I am aware of such an outburst not removed in edit.  (~14:00 mark)

Hmm - how could accessing the system be made more robust to prevent the bad PR of "losing" your wallet password? A digital solution for a digital problem. Hmm.

Sorry fanboy, it is you who cannot argue the subject honestly... embedded "Bitcoin passwords" would be a perfect prototype, no doubt about it.


Thu, 04/04/2013 - 19:29 | 3410303 fonestar
fonestar's picture

There are plenty of ways to store good passwords in your mind, or securely on your computer.  You are going to try and junk an ingenious technology because some people can forget their encrypted passwords?  If I forget where I left my credit card or wallet in a large store it will possibly be stolen.  Is that the fault of the Fed, Visa or Mastercard?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 21:15 | 3410602 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

"If I forget where I left my credit card or wallet in a large store it will possibly be stolen.  Is that the fault of the Fed, Visa or Mastercard?"

But then you just call VISA or MC and tell them, they cancel the card and express post a new one to you.

BitCoins just vanish into the ether from whence they came so they need to address lost coins or it'll end up with more floating around in space than actually being traded as people inevitably loose them by forgetting passwords or formatting without backups, house burns down destroying backups as well as originals etc. 

There's only ever be 21 million bitcoins - but 10 million have been lost. Does that make them worth more or less?

Fri, 04/05/2013 - 01:28 | 3411243 Number 156
Number 156's picture

What is it with you guys and your damn COMMENT STUFFING???!!!!??

Fri, 04/05/2013 - 01:56 | 3411276 Lore
Lore's picture

Amazing that more readers don't stop to question the REAL ORIGIN of this thing, the TIMING of its marketing, and especially its EFFECTS. 


Thu, 04/04/2013 - 16:11 | 3409572 ILoveDebt
ILoveDebt's picture

You might be right about the guy holding a huge stash.  Nobody knows.  As far as the rest, you want us to disprove a lie? 

That's like asking you to prove you didn't rape my mother. 

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 16:27 | 3409643 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I use 'shock value' to comments becuz people are 2 dumbed down to think or react otherwise...

~~~ < [joo & bitcoin junkers, have a field day here]

The fact is...

BITCOIN... at the moment... is a huge vacuum cleaner of currency at the present moment... Where does 'paper wealth' go to die?... In the past:




have played the role...

There's a sucker born every minute... [& often enough ~ a jew is on the other side of the transaction that separates a fool from his money]... AGAIN ['junk away', the button is brightly lit above]... Hate all you want on francis_sawyer... Pretend IT'S ALL MY FAULT... I'm sure that'll make you feel better about yourselves...


Thu, 04/04/2013 - 16:52 | 3409724 fuu
fuu's picture

"[& often enough ~ a jew is on the other side of the transaction that separates a fool from his money]"

I would bet you 1 oz of silver there are more non-jewish con artists in this world than jewish ones.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 17:31 | 3409926 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Jews are only 1% of the world's population...


How fucking hard is it 4 you to be correct?... If it is only a [+1] aggregate differential, person for person... Than that still makes them the most corrupt MF'ers in existence...

Not to mention the fact that despite this casual detour ~ NOBODY is bothering to identify WHO 'Satoshi Nakamoto' is...

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 17:46 | 3409982 fuu
fuu's picture

So more often than not the fleecer is actually not jewish did I hear that right?

I don't know who the person is. I also don't own any bitcoins. Then again I don't know who invented gold and silver money either but I own those.

I went ahead and junked myself.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 18:06 | 3410052 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

Francis Sawyer is a paid shill used to discredit Zerohedge; that's all.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 18:27 | 3410117 fuu
fuu's picture

I seriously doubt that, but even if he is so the fuck what? Paid shills can't have or share opinions? Francis doesn't have the power to discredit this site. Take the concern troll somewhere else.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 18:26 | 3410122 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

@fuu ~ You 'heard' what you want to hear [as everyone always does]


@Scarlett ~ You're a jew babycakes [preselected ~ as the case may be]... So basically, bask in your glory... You don't need to be fighting it out in the trenches...


As for the 'CRYPTIC JAP' [who supposedly 'INVENTED' bitcoin & stashed a bunch for himself]... Well ~ That's all for YOU GENIUSES to decide...


Thu, 04/04/2013 - 21:28 | 3410642 CH1
CH1's picture

Sawyer cares more about Jews thn Jews do. The poor deear is utterly obsessed.

Is there some kind of medicine for Compulsive Nazism?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 19:24 | 3410286 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

No it is finite because coin generation is determined by a mathematical equation that has a finite x amount solutions. Once all the solutions are found that is it. It really is that simple.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 20:02 | 3410386 Cap Matifou
Cap Matifou's picture

After the Aldrich Plan failed to pass 100 years ago, the money changers mock hated the federal reserve act, pushing the same shit into blossom at last.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 18:14 | 3410075 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Dude that's the SEC. C'mon...get your alphabet soup of acronyms straight.

Fri, 04/05/2013 - 00:28 | 3411110 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

I see francis "off the rails" sawyer was allowed near a computer again. Someone should speak to the head nurse at the insane asylum about that.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 18:28 | 3410130 crowd
crowd's picture

Bitcoins are made from electricty. The value of electricity spent mining matches the value of the new coins.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 21:18 | 3410609 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

So where do i cash all my gold Sonic the Hedgehog rings and Mario Bro's coins - i spent heaps of electricty mining them in the 90's - they must be worth a fortune now!


Fri, 04/05/2013 - 13:03 | 3413353 crowd
crowd's picture

Do you have proof?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:49 | 3408880 redpill
redpill's picture

Let's just say I'm not too worried about the Perth Mint being "hacked."

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:55 | 3408912 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Well perhaps you should be.  In a major currency meltdown (like the one we are heading into on a global scale) it is very likely mines will be nationalized and bullion coin production halted at least for a time.

Something like that is actually easy for governments to do compared to forcing millions of people to give up their encrypted wallets.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 14:45 | 3409207 redpill
redpill's picture

It's ok if they halt bullion coin production, Perth Mint maintains 100% reserves at all times.

Forcing people to give up their encrypted wallets isn't that difficult for a Justice Department that has absolutely no regard for your civil rights.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 14:49 | 3409224 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Assuming the person is somewhat technically literate how would said government even know I have Bitcoin?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 15:38 | 3409456 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

Your IP and device MAC address are EVERYWHERE!  For being technically literate you sure are stupid.


You realize all laser printers print a "hidden" code that prints to identify the printer the page was printed on?


You realize ALL Operating systems have a back door to get in right??


Every telecom records and saves all conversations..  Hidden Cookies have already captured all data on all your drives..


All your info are belong to us..


Thu, 04/04/2013 - 15:45 | 3409489 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Mac addresses are only local and easily spoofed moron.  IP addresses are easily hidden through use of VPN or dark-nets.  Operating systems do not have "back doors".

Now would you care to refute those simple facts or would you like to embarass yourself more?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 16:08 | 3409571 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

I'll chose to embarrass myself more..  All CLEC are required by law to have a "box" installed..

Google "back door in UNIX" and go from there. 


Do you think Cisco's IOS doesn't have traffic reporting features in it?


VPN,  Dark-nets..   ha..  now that's funny.. 


Like thinking you really have any "privacy" online..

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 16:18 | 3409595 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Operating systems are collections of files, folders, processes and directories!  Protocols and programs can have back doors in them and some people have even attempted to include them in previous distro's of GNU Linux.  They were quickly discovered and corrected.

Seriously, are you getting this shit from an old 2600 magazine?  Do you want to ask me about "the ping of death" next??? LOLOLOLOL!!!

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 16:27 | 3409646 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

Damn you're a tool. Don't you know that routers log EVERYTHING. All internet traffic EVER is in a database in the desert. You can spoof another client but you can't fool your own ISP which is being watched. Everything is being watched and catalogued. It's just a matter of querying the data.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 16:31 | 3409667 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I work in communications loser.  Routers do not log jack shit!  Routers forward packets according to route availability and preference.  Servers can log traffic and data.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 16:46 | 3409708 fonestar
fonestar's picture

.....and to further that, routers loose all of their data held in dynamic memory when they are powered down.  There are ways of trying to preserve, capture and image dynamic memory but the technology is not perfect and there also exists couter-forensics to counter this threat by LEA's.  This is why many smart hackers will run diskless operating systems in certain situations and hack using their own memory upstairs in their heads.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 17:56 | 3410026 diffusing
diffusing's picture

for someone in telecom, you sure have a narrow view of communications networks.  think syslogd.  router logs, firewall logs..  its all logable.  How much is retained and logged you wont know until its too late.  good try though.


i will grant you ciscos lose their unsaved config when rebooted.  but that isnt the point.  that has nothing to do with the premise.


you love bitcoins, great.  but giving people a false sense of safety..  is pretty poor behavior.  I hope you have done more research on bitcoins then you have in your chosen field of telecom.









Thu, 04/04/2013 - 19:23 | 3410285 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Yes, you can log to syslogd and so what good is a bunch of encrypted gibberish?  Because that's all it's going to be if USG starts cracking down on what people are saying online.  They push and they get shoved back.  That's how technology and everything else works.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 19:50 | 3410351 fonestar
fonestar's picture

And all you are doing is arguing hypothetical "what if" scenarios based on possible future actions taken by governments (which will just backfire on them anyway).  FACT: Bitcoin is currently the most secure and advanced method of payment on this planet.  It provides a reasonable amount of anonymity and security as it is.  Used by a sophisticated tech in conjunction with Tor, True Crypt, proxies, VPN's and one-time wallets it would basically be an impossible task for LEA's to FTM.

Like Clint said, "If you want a guarantee, buy a toaster."

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 21:48 | 3410681 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

If the new listening post out yonder in Utah had been re-tasked to track bitcoin traffic it would blow away their ELINT capacity for Terrerisim and Citizen spying. Talk about a lot of legwork.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 18:22 | 3410045 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

You can have privacy online. Granted, it's getting harder every day.
I've just recently read an article about mobile phone usage patterns being akin to physical fingerprints. An example was given on how long it took the system to recognize the same person, using a completely new never before used device. Simply by tracking location changes, the person was positively recognized in a little less than 6 hours. No calls, no texts, no data. Only movement patterns.


Thu, 04/04/2013 - 19:42 | 3410330 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

This is just a new application of technology to an old school problem which is human behavor. People tend to be creatures of routine once you can recognize repeatable patterns then it becomes easy to track. Nothing new there just a new approach using new technology to an old problem.

Fri, 04/05/2013 - 02:21 | 3411339 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

I absolutely agree. It is very nice of us to carry our tracking modules everywhere even to bed and quite voluntarily.

Guess, we're all sheep in one way or another.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 21:40 | 3410663 freshfart
freshfart's picture

Jesus buddy you really need to stop. You clearly are way out of your league with asinine comments like this. "Back door in UNIX" ? Did someone rent "Hackers" recently ?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 16:29 | 3409660 redpill
redpill's picture

They could start with the low hanging fruit, like getting Google and Apple to disclose all individuals that have downloaded a relevant bitcoin app, which both those government cockswallowing companies would gladly do.  Twitter would probably roll-over and vomit out the details of everyone that's mentioned bitcoin in their hashtags and their associated e-mail address, which if it's one of the big boys that sniffs all the contents of your e-mails, gives them an even better path to the door of those that likely have the largest balances based upon cross-referenced demographics and tax records.  And that's just the easy big brother shit.  Don't make the evil fuckers get creative!  

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 20:31 | 3410472 Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

Me: I am Bitcoin...
Next non-coward: I am Bitcoin
Next brave libertarian: I am Bitcoin
Next true patriot: I am Bitcoin
Next Bernanke hater: I am Bitcoin
Next ZH technophobe: I like turtles, please dont hurt me big brother, see I cower before you.

Fri, 04/05/2013 - 00:21 | 3411093 ambrose
ambrose's picture

I don't wish to discount the many benefits that Bitcoin has as a medium of exchange but since all bitcoin transactions are publicly available (eg ) and carry a timestamp, isn't it possible for law enforcement to match transactions to logs from ISPs?


That would be enough for someone who has the log of the ISP to identify who made that payment.

Also, once you publish your bitcoin address to accept donations, aren't you immediately identified?

eg) Wikileaks transactions:

Hence, Bitcoin is pseudonymous, not anonymous.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 18:17 | 3410082 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

If all transactions are broadcast to all nodes, it would only take one person. Once I have the log, can I not then trace back to the merchant? The merchant may have mailed something somewhere. Just thinking like the hack that I am.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 23:33 | 3411013 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

redpill: "Let's just say I'm not too worried about the Perth Mint being "hacked."

Dude, I'm more worried about the Perth Mint getting nationalized.  Although there is an argument for storing elsewhere, other than at the P/Mint.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:16 | 3408719 Killtruck
Killtruck's picture

Apply Money and Orange Currency. Well put. No one finds that hard to understand. It's when Bitcoin advocates claim that bitcoin is just as good as PM's, and start referring to it as money, that gets the Stackers' ire up. I'm not saying that YOU personally have said that, as you understand clearly the difference. But I have heard it and I'm sure others have as well. Is it useful? Absolutely, and I'm all for competition. As long as we remember that it's not an apple, it's an orange.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:20 | 3408744 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Just remember that the Bitcoin developer crew are coming at this from a technical and computer science background.  So you'll have to excuse them if they make semantical errors about "money", "currency", "value", etc.  Most people in the PM community would probably have a hard time using linkers and compilers as well.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:30 | 3408783 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Yer fulla crap. The jew knows all about money and currency - hell, they started this shit in the Temple. Wait until you can only use BTC to pay your taxes and watch how difficult they become.

Oh... you said 'crew'. My bad.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:35 | 3408817 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"the jew knows"?  WTF?  Are you implying that everyone on #bitcoin-dev is a jew?  Lives and logs in from Israel?  Jew by birth or by religious practice?  Have you even visited #bitcoin-dev or #bitcoin? 

No probably not, sounds like you would have a hard enough time even installing ICQ.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 14:23 | 3409086 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Yeah, it's mostly black guys on there, so there.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 15:09 | 3409334 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Hrmm... ICQ ... ICQ ...

::groks ICQ::

::drums fingers on countertop::

Isn't that like AIM on my AOL Internets disk?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 21:33 | 3410652 CH1
CH1's picture

Another Nazi troll. Sunstein should send over something new.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:22 | 3408753 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

its not the same since, right now, it is better than PMs since there is no bullshit paper market fucking your stacks everyday


Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:40 | 3408833 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Yes and it doesn't take a brilliant trader to ride the bitbull, take profits and buy PM's with that.

Fight them on both fronts! 

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 21:20 | 3410622 salvadordaly
salvadordaly's picture

I  am going to step out here on the end of this plank, and say something that scares me about a bitcoin. What if, just throwing this out there, there is no digital? You know, no internet, no power, whatever, just no digital for whatever reason? WHAT IS A BITCOIN WORTH THEN??

I'm just saying,,,,,,,,,

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 21:40 | 3410662 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture's all ones and zeros, annnd it's gone..

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 22:05 | 3410740 TheWolverine
TheWolverine's picture

 Carrington Event = BitPain

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:17 | 3408728 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Hey, "bitcoin can help to neutralize the effects of capital controls", mkay? - wait, what?...

Well, at least they can't confiscate them! - wait, what's that...? Key Disclosure Laws Can Be Used To Confiscate Bitcoin Assets ...? Uh oh - Houston, we have a problem...

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:24 | 3408761 Matt
Matt's picture

How did authorities know they had bitcoins in the first place? The same issue occurs if you own gold; if they detain you and threaten to jail you if you do not disclose where your stash is.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 21:27 | 3410634 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

"How did authorities know they had bitcoins in the first place? "

Because everyone that uses bitcoins talks/brags/pumps about it constantly leaving breadcrumbs everywhere.
The rules of bitcoins should have followed the rules of Fight Club but the cat got out of the bag when the price spiked and now people defend themselves, challange the Feds, taunt the taxman and think they are safe because of encyption and group-think.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:26 | 3408769 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

lost it in that boating accident....

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:34 | 3408812 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Wasn't it in an hard drive crash? Kind of surprised..

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:20 | 3408741 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> If you have to file a claim to get your money, is it really yours?

Just like PayPal!

Hey ...

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 16:56 | 3409736 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

Or the CME.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:45 | 3408868 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Instawallet customers just got Cyprused

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 22:28 | 3410839 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

And the moral of the story seems to be, the technology behind Bitcoin may be robust, but the infrastructure on which Bitcoin is exchanged is crap. So does it matter if Bitcoin was not hacked, if you can't fucking use it anywhere because the exchange mechanism was hacked?

I am aware everything else we call currency / money / precious something can all be stolen or be manipulated making participation pointless. But Bitcoin has other negatives going for it that make it even worse.


Thu, 04/04/2013 - 21:48 | 3410682 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

If you have to file a claim to get your money, is it really yours?

Wouldn't that make bitcon just like all other fiat?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:09 | 3408692 fonestar
fonestar's picture

If nobody is demanding you accept Bitcoin and nobody is declaring Bitcoin has value, how is it a fiat currency?

Bitcoin is a voluntary currency.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:25 | 3408765 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

You're wasting your time trying to reason with people who don't even know what "fiat" means.

Besides, you're waaaaay outnumbered, so they only reinforce each other's ignorance.

I find it funny that for all the legitimate concerns one can have about bitcoins, this ignorance always rises to the top.

Gubmint skool, FTMFW!

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:43 | 3408849 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I am not trying to reason with those incapable of simple boolean logic or suffering memory leaks.

I am just going to keep countering their FUD.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 14:21 | 3409079 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Beats getting a job and earning actual money, eh skippy?


Thu, 04/04/2013 - 14:40 | 3409163 fonestar
fonestar's picture

your "actual money" is worthless

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 15:09 | 3409335 Citium
Citium's picture

Strange I thought you were touting it's value all the time...


The  argument that fiat solely means "by force or edict" is somewhat of a false understanding because a HUGE part of something being fiat means it has no intrinsic value... That is why the governments have to decree it, it is inherantly worthless without it. Bitcoins are worthless outside of perceived value and faith of acceptance. Fiat by any other name...

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 15:15 | 3409358 Idiocracy
Idiocracy's picture

Bitcoin is the opposite of fiat, since no central authority is telling you that you must accept it as legal tender.  It's totally voluntary.  It is a libertarian's dream come true.  Online digital wallets are inherently risky, but you don't have to keep your BTC there.  You can keep it in your wallet on the PC at home.  Your choice.  Works the same way for gold.

ZH people, I love PM's as much as you do, but why not buy a few BTC as an insurance policy just in case it becomes a new standard?  You spend $ 500.  Big deal.  If USD/BTC goes to 1,000,000 you win big.  If not you have $500 worth of credit to spend on web designers, odd-n-ends, etc.  In the worst case.



Thu, 04/04/2013 - 15:36 | 3409446 snr-moment
snr-moment's picture

Seriously inquisitive.


How about a hamburger, a hammer, my electric bill ot gallon of gas?


Thu, 04/04/2013 - 16:16 | 3409590 ILoveDebt
ILoveDebt's picture

A hammer, yes.  Food only in very few locations, mostly in europe but a few independent places in US will take it.  No gas that I know of, nor utilities.  If it's regulated, I doubt you will see a bitcoin payment option in the near future for it. 

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 23:51 | 3411039 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Now you're cooking with water.  What even the people who claim to be libertarian and anti-Fed fail to grasp in their simultaneous attack on Bitcoin, is that ANYTHING that takes fiat out of circulation and thus threatens the FRB system, is a "good" thing.

Regardless of it's PM or Bitcoin. And the two working in tandem only amplify the effect.  Even smart guys like Laws of Physics, etc. seem to overlook this reality.

The other reality is, that it's the perfect buy/sell medium -- more so than PM -- and far more divisible.  E.g., I can sell item X in place A for Bitcoin, then buy the exact same (shiny, heavy) item in place B.  W/o having the hassles & risks of carrying it from A to B. 

I sincerely hope that genuine skeptics can research more, think more, try it, and THEN come back with (constructive?) feedback.  Otherwise guys like me are likely to think them as either having a learning disorder or being Gov trolls.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 15:14 | 3409359 Idiocracy
Idiocracy's picture


Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:50 | 3408558 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture
'Satoshi Nakamoto' - why is his name a pseudonymous...why is this person(s) shady?


'Satoshi Nakamoto' = 'A Hook to Satanism' (anagram)

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:55 | 3408604 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

Seatec Astronomy = Too Many Secrets

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:57 | 3408608 SMG
SMG's picture

Good catch Blotto.

Bitcoin would work perfectly with an implantable chip.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:00 | 3408625 troublesum
troublesum's picture

+1 Mind = Blown


Also if PK and Al gore are OK with bitcoin thats the last clue I would ever need to know this is sponsored by the NWO. Welcome to your New World Order 100% Global 100% Digital 100% Tracable Currency

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 15:10 | 3409341 Citium
Citium's picture

The fact that the bitcoin pushers have left this comment alone speaks volumes.... Please tell us again why we would get into a worldwide digital currency not backed by anything when the Controllers and Elites want us in a worldwide digital currency not backed by anything. *Cue Mr. Burns from the Simpsons* "Excellent..."

Fri, 04/05/2013 - 00:18 | 3411087 void_ptr
void_ptr's picture

Well that's easy. Because the Controllers and Elites can't print bitcoin to pay to run their power apparatus.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:02 | 3408636 CH1
CH1's picture

'Satoshi Nakamoto' = 'A Hook to Satanism' (anagram)

LOL... That's IT!!

Call Fox News right away - they'll get you on at 6!!!!

Dude, you'll be famous!!!

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:33 | 3408742 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Im not interested in being famous - im interested in waking up the good people of this planet...even the bad too...


Ive been getting some results that this guy is getting rumoured to be 'Satoshi Nakamoto'...just info for consideration


Eventually, Ahlgren became something of a pioneer in the world of online security, using encryption and hashing algorithms to create secure environments for clients and their accounts.

For many years, Ahlgren delved deep into the connections between disparate philosophies and methods of thought. He lists as some of his biggest influences people like Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Hobbes, John Stuart Mill, Sir Karl Popper, David Deutsch, Thomas Kuhn, F.A. Hayek, Warren Buffett, Philip Fisher, and Ludwig von Mises. Ahlgren's experiences, interests, and research into fields as seemingly far apart as cryptography, computer science, programming, economics, finance, value investing, humanistic epistemology, quantum physics,

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 17:24 | 3409897 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

thanks for the pointer(s) BLOTTO - "Paco" has a very rich background to mine, and given this,

Ahlgren is a self-professed libertarian, and closely aligns himself with the philosophies of such contemporaries as Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Peter Schiff, and Jimmy Rogers. Ahlgren is also a student of the philosophy of Ayn Rand – known as Objectivism. While he still admits to be an admirer of Rand's, he has largely dismissed the foundations of her philosophy as flawed at the most basic level.

I'm surprised to not have read more about him here at ZH - he's tailor-made for his (obvious) fan base.

watching. . .

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:12 | 3408703 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"'Satoshi Nakamoto' - why is his name a pseudonymous...why is this person(s) shady?"


Um, I dunno... maybe because they don't want to be suicided like Aaron Swartz?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 22:11 | 3410749 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Holy shit you cracked the fucking case!

Satanist Oak Homo

Attain Oaks Homos

A Sonata Homos Kit

And don't forget:


A Saint Amok Shoot

Bitcoin is gonna kill the fucking POPE!

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 23:24 | 3410988 margaris
margaris's picture

+1 lol,

I tried some myself, but a dastardly "o" kept being left over, ...

masta, kan i shoot o?

a sistah to a monk:  o

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 23:27 | 3410997 margaris
margaris's picture

A last successful one:

shit at mooN, oSaka!!!

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:58 | 3408622 bluskyes
bluskyes's picture

Lately I have been visualizing myself as a sado-masochist participating in some sort of perverse bsdm ritual. Every time I buy a new bar of silver, they drop the price. The more they drop the price, the more I buy. Something will break eventually.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:20 | 3408745 CH1
CH1's picture

Any time they take your fiat and give you silver, it's a good trade.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 21:28 | 3409430 Ag Tex
Ag Tex's picture

Stay the course.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 21:05 | 3410564 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

There is a vested interest in getting people out of real things like gold and silver and into speculative scams like bitcoin. Anything they can do to keep the price down.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 21:40 | 3410660 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

"There is a vested interest in getting people out of real things like gold and silver and into speculative scams like bitcoin. "

Like making videos of gold being conficated at the border creating an internet meme of 'should had bitcoins'. As bitcoins enter MSM articles the price is going up while gold and silver are going down. Would rather see these correlate to have any trust in bitcoin, instead it's following the debt and dow ratio, ie. money being removed from historically solid stores of wealth and into false securities.


Thu, 04/04/2013 - 21:22 | 3410624 The Heart
The Heart's picture

Excuse please, just curious, will the dip come after the crash, or before it?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:33 | 3408459 CH1
CH1's picture

Hey Krugs. Break any good windows lately?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:33 | 3408460 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

like buying tulips

KRUGMAN LIKES TULIPS!!!  You heard it first on ZH!  <snicker>

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:38 | 3408826 Matt
Matt's picture

Interestingly, bitcoins seem to be trading in a range; could be a consolidation. If the range narrows and volitilty starts to get under control, ~$130 USD could become a stable price. I may have been wrong in my call for a 90% drop. I guess we'll see in the next few weeks what happens.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:36 | 3408487 falak pema
falak pema's picture

r u defending that other super tulip, the greenback of your friend Ben; top of the world petro gordian knot?

When currency becomes electronic CB printer's money gone mad, its sad, its worse than bad and it needs a tad better solution of decentralised rebellion. 

We are there now. 

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:39 | 3408503 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Can you buy a coffee with a bitcoin?  Nope.

Better yet, can you buy coffee with gold?

That is because the "greenback" is the world reserve currency and the gold standard of money.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:40 | 3408513 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I love it when you say "Gold Standard" I am ROTFLMAO.  You and MDB shower together right?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:46 | 3408548 knukles
knukles's picture

Ah, now the "tulips" comment makes more sense.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:34 | 3408813 vulcanraven
vulcanraven's picture

How come MDB and Paul Krugman never show up togetrher in the same thread? Kinda reminds me of how Clark Kent and Superman were never in the same place.... hmmm.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 20:22 | 3410440 knukles
knukles's picture

Or Tyler and the Narrator

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:36 | 3408815 vulcanraven
vulcanraven's picture

Dbl post

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:43 | 3408529 imbtween
imbtween's picture

"Can you buy a coffee with a bitcoin?  Nope."

Um, yeah, you can.


You can get pizza delivered, too.



Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:20 | 3408736 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

See, BitCoin is all about conditioning. You think you're being a rebel using electronic currency. You're really just a sheep.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:34 | 3408814 imbtween
imbtween's picture

um ok then - thanks for explaining your views by projecting them onto me. You are, of course, wrong.

I view BTC as a speculative commodity - which may be incorrect, but it is my view. I don't care about the politics of it as long as the opportunity to buy dips and sell highs exists. I wish I could easily short BTC, cause at this point, I would.

Anyway, as I understand the recent BTC phenomenon, the wave of buyers is comprised of desperate people who would undertake massive risk (by converting their local fiat to BTC) rather than stand to lose it all to rapacious governments.

If I lived in the EZ, I'd probably do it, too.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:48 | 3408537 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Actually, you are wrong, again...shocking!! Yes you can..

You really should return your Peace prize...or is it Piece prize?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:46 | 3408544 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

No, but I can buy a coffee plantation with my stacks. Fuck You Krugman

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:47 | 3408557 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"That is because the "greenback" is the world reserve currency and the gold standard of money."  -  LMFAO!!!  So Krugamn does believe in a gold-backed currency after all!    No fiat is backed by gold today, keep printing moron.  Halarious.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:57 | 3408597 Alpo for Granny
Alpo for Granny's picture

So Krugman by your rationale... the USD is money because you can buy coffee with it. Does it matter that you need 2 dollars for the same coffee that you only needed 1 dollar for 5 years ago? Yet you can buy the same amount of coffee with less gold. Is that what you mean by gold standard?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:05 | 3408655 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

2 years ago coffee was a dollar so no, you can't buy coffee with the same US money you used to. But you can with Bitcoin.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:56 | 3408603 ALANBEEKMAN

>>>>>>That is because the "greenback" is the world reserve currency...........

Umm, I think the Chinese and Australians have a different opinion going forward.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:06 | 3408632 falak pema
falak pema's picture

you can buy a porsche car! And even a BI on that! 

And, its very much at the inception stage of its creation. Its potential to ruin the power of CBs and global fractional reserve banking, currently  drowning in unavowable derivative debt; something on which WE NEVER HEAR DEAR DR KRUGMAN REFUTE THE THESIS OF ZH, PC ROBERTS AND NOW YOUR BETE NOIR STOCKMAN.

By providing another, novel financial solution to the economy, Bitcoin could (its still early days),  allow it to escape on a decentralised and regionally controlled basis over time, from this awesome FED disseminated sword of Damocles called the green back; hegemonial, phony, corrupt monetary feed line to a labour arbitrage fueled economy.

A financial front fabricated by NWO PAx Americana FIRE assets model fed on fiat steroids machine since over 20 years.

You never criticised this during the CLinton years when your buddies were in power and destroyed Glass Steagall.

As a world famous economist you are very thin on global currency and economic solutions to counter a catastrophe that has been spawned in DC by both red and blue administrations; other than more of the usual money print! 

 Texas Family Sells Porsche For Bitcoins - Business Insider

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:32 | 3408800 falak pema
falak pema's picture

so Dr K : you for coffee but not for tea and sympathy of any substance? 

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 15:05 | 3409308 aerojet
aerojet's picture

No, you can't directly by a coffee with gold, and that's the problem--until it becomes legal tender and you don't have to go through some coin dealer or online site to convert it into spendable money, then you don't really have control.  The government can still fuck with you--and they will.  As soon as the dollar blows up, holders of metals will be sacked with high taxes when they sell their items or maybe just outright confiscation.  So all you have is the black (free) market. 

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 18:46 | 3410181 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Not only a coffee, but a coffeemaker too:

BitPay Integrates Bitcoin with Fulfillment by

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 21:25 | 3410630 The Heart
The Heart's picture


Is that some kind of lizard, or somthing?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:41 | 3408511 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

You read urbansurvival too?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:45 | 3408539 Keynesian Mess
Keynesian Mess's picture

If it's not a currency, then the ECB wasted a lot of time and money producing a 55-page report outlining why it scares them to death.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:48 | 3408877 Matt
Matt's picture

Well, to be fair, that money was likely part of the ECB budget, so it was going to get spent one way or another anyways. Probably a better use than whatever else it might have gone towards.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:47 | 3408543 tdag
tdag's picture

let the trolling begin.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 12:59 | 3408627 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

BREAKING: Dr. Kugman loves all gold bugs, all gold bugs love him back.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 13:16 | 3408683 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

It's not a currency except for the fact that the logo represents a currency symbol and it functions exactly like a currency. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. The one thing that it is not: money. Because only gold and silver are.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 20:22 | 3410439 nmewn
nmewn's picture


Money is not encumbered by anything once you own/possess it (no third parties or devices). Bitcoin reminds me more of a .bit common stock more than anything else at this point.

Good luck digital troopers...I've seen this act before ;-)

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