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Rethinking Money With Bitcoin Quadrupling Since Cyprus

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Since the beginning of the Cyprus debacle (followed by Russia's call for repatriation of all offshore capital and then Japan's willful debasement of their currency), which appears to have awoken many to the fact that banks and politicians can't be trusted , the 'price' of the virtual currency Bitcoin has quadrupled - touching an incredible $162 this morning. While most people believe the only way to 'spend' this currency is on drugs or blogging sites, Liberty Blitzkrieg's Mike Krieger points out there are in fact hundreds of places (growing daily) where this as-yet unregulated store of wealth can be spent. However, what is really driving this surge in demand for a different kind of 'money' is the wholesale loss of faith in the status quo - nowhere is this clearer than in the words and actions of the people of Cyprus and this devastating clip capturing the thoughts and feelings of ordinary Cypriots after their bank accounts were frozen. "Nothing has started yet... everything is going to fall down like dominoes because people don't trust the banks."

 

and perhaps this last bump is due to Portugal's latest attempt at herding cats...

 

And the following insightful brief documentary is how real people - not the mouthpieces projected on TV - feel in the streets of Cyprus about the confiscation of their savings...

 

And Brandon Smith's rather more direct take on the Bitcoin phenomena specifically - "Ignore It..."

 

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Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:26 | 3419078 vmromk
vmromk's picture

It it ain't in your pocket, you don't own it.
Bitcoin = Ponzi

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:31 | 3419102 ACP
ACP's picture

Well, maybe not a ponzi, but it's odd how people are putting so much faith into something about which they know very little.

Many years ago as a fresh, new investor, I sold shares in a solid company to buy shares in a penny stock that I knew nothing about. It promptly went to zero.

I guess everyone needs to learn that lesson at least once, and some other people will never learn. Let's see how the whole bitcoin thing develops.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:37 | 3419118 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

I must admit that I'm mightily suspicious about this entire endeavor (bitcoin). I've been wrong before, so can't say that I'm 100% (or even 51%) right, but my gut feeling tells me to stick with what I know (and touch).

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:36 | 3419123 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

This virtual currency which is technologically dependent is dangerous in a time of economic and, most likely, periodic communication disruption.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:42 | 3419148 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

There's a stuxnet out there with BitCoin's name written all over it...

TPTB are just biding their time...

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:52 | 3419178 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

It may well have a roll for day-to-day transactions, but it is not a core real asset.

It is a virtual asset which excludes it, in my view, from a core asset position.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:06 | 3419192 markmotive
markmotive's picture

If the SHTF you think the power grid will remain intact?

While the masses are distracted by electronic nirvana, the big powers are demanding the return of their gold.

http://www.planbeconomics.com/2013/04/texas-wants-their-gold-back-jim.html

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:11 | 3419233 Conman
Conman's picture

Sorry buddy if the sHTF gold will be worth shit too. Food, water, bullets will be only worthwhile things.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:28 | 3419264 malikai
malikai's picture

Zombies notwithstanding, here's the reality of BTC in the here and now.

From a merchant's point of view:

  1. Slightly more difficult to implement than a standard credit card processor's API.
  2. No chargebacks.
  3. Lower fees.
  4. Wallet security required.

In short, you can charge less for your product. You can (and should) instantly offload your currency exposure while fixing your tax liability using any of the exchanges out there, provided you can tolerate their apalling APIs. But since your fees are much lower than even the cheapest credit card processor, you can charge less and/or have a larger margin. No chargebacks!

For the consumer's perspective:

  1. You can freely speculate on the value in a market generally dominated by strong hands with little margin at play and far fewer predatory algos at work.
  2. You can send currency anywhere in the world for zero cost.
  3. You can chose your own security arrangements and handle your own finances with zero counterparty risk (although with greater market risk).

That's pretty much it. Do the research. Or sling poo. Those who should learn will learn.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:43 | 3419283 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

Should say "It may have a role" in my post above (not roll).

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:22 | 3419455 CH1
CH1's picture

The amount of arrogance and ignorance in these posts could darken a planet.

In fact, they are darkening this one a bit.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:53 | 3419621 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

There is no easy answer to our current predicament.

Bitcoin is one piece perhaps, but not a solution for numerous reasons - the biggest being it's virtual nature, that it is electronically dependent and hackable with enough focused resources.  These resources will arrive when its value is great enough.  Especially when it becomes threatening to the banking / debt-based fiat money system.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 18:23 | 3419782 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

are you ignoring all the other risks in living in this world??  someone can rob your gold a lot easier than stealing your bitcoins. They being virtual gives it a lot of benefits as well

There is no one answer for all.. look at silver and gold, it is sitting in the mud and no one here does shit about it

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 00:43 | 3420830 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

So let's see, when I sign up for a bitcoin exchange, they want my social security number and bank accounts. Yeah real anonymous, unlike gold which actually is. So when I use these bitcoin exchanges to receive money, I have to depend on.... drumroll please... Fedex to deliver my fiat money. Yeah real closed loop there.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 00:51 | 3420841 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

You are quite an Einstein and you seem to have done very deep research to bring us these most profound insights

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 01:31 | 3420881 Matt
Matt's picture

Have you ever had a Forex trading account before? Have you done any research into what is involved in trading currencies or equities?

It seems like you are talking about signing up for an account on Mt Gox, which is a Forex service. Note: not at all required for normal users of bitcoin.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 04:47 | 3421053 runningman18
runningman18's picture

The point is, if Bitcoin can't provide any anonimity, then what the hell use is it in combating the control of the central banks and the federal government?  It's not SUPPOSED to be like normal forex trading!  It's not much of an alternative activist currency if the enemy knows exactly who you are and when you use it...

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 16:27 | 3423521 jonytk
jonytk's picture

easy, you can buy in person to someone that has bitcoins, just tell them to send it to your address.

A bitcoin address can be generated offline and you can save there the coins until you need it.

It's called cold storage.

The other option (more risky) is to buy bitcoin mining computers and create your bitcoins and use it to buy, of course to buy anonymously you really need to know about computers.

Maybe you are just too old.? but i know 12y.o. kids that mine with teh same computer they play with the steam (online gaming platform).

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:24 | 3419462 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Economic Coup d'etat, never let a crisis go to waste!

Very well put, eh?

DaddyO

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:34 | 3419524 ManOfBliss
ManOfBliss's picture

Sorry, there is much more to it than that.

1. As far as I know, bitcoin shopping carts don't support recurring billing products. This means no subscription services, like magazines, monthly clubs, etc.

2. Far too few consumers use bitcoin to make this profitable for sellers.

3. The IRS will audit any business who they detect uses bitcoin, to prevent against money laundering, and tax evasion.

4. The Feds will find a way to monitor bitcoin exchanges, to catch people coming out of the digital currency and into the fiat currency. And they'll investigate them from there, again, to catch tax cheats, money launderers, etc.

Bitcoin is a MASSIVE political risk.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:53 | 3419599 malikai
malikai's picture

 

To each:

  1. True. You do need to manually initiate payment if you run your own client. However, online wallet providers can autopay for you. And they will.
  2. For some businesses, no. And that gap too will fall.
  3. I'm not speaking solely to US companies. Over there the IRS will audit whoever they want. Frankly, I don't know what to say to US companies. You're doing it to yourselves.
  4. And the exchanges will comply. In the process legitimizing the entire thing.

Someone here posted this a while back, which stood out to me.

http://www2.egovlink.com/press-release-bitcoin.cfm

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 18:27 | 3419803 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

wow you already gave up..  do you need someone to push the dirt in as you lie in your grave?

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 00:45 | 3420834 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Hrm my Fedex package didn't arrive with my fiat money. Maybe I should call my bitcoin exchange to see what happened. Oh right, I CAN'T.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 20:41 | 3420231 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

If I were to spend 10,000 on BC and gold, the fees are much higher to buy BC than gold.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:57 | 3419196 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Step 1: Go down to the "supply" chart, locate 2013, then mentally note how much "growth" in the bitcoin base there is to go over the time frame specified.

Step 2: Understand that all that new supply over a 100+ years assumes traditional computing resources.

Now, those who are "paranoid" might think the 'ol US Government started the whole bit coin crazy, has a quantum computer in a lab somewhere that already solved for all the bit coins, and is simply biding its time to step in and run the show.

For those that don't know how computers compute, think like this. A modern PC does tedious things, but very fast. Example, multiply 8 by 8. Or, in my analogy, add 8 to 8, then add 8 more, then add 8 more, then add 8 more, then add 8 more, then add 8 more, then add 8 more. If it happens really fast and you are just balancing a check book, you don't care that it took 10 milliseconds. Now, engineers are actually smarter than that and employ a lot of shortcuts in designing computers, but it demonstrates that finding a prime number with 1000 numbers it would take a while.

Quantum computing is a little different. Instead of doing a repetitive process, it represents all the possibilities. So, a quantum computer that balances a check book is beyond worthless, but for solving really hard problems it can do so in vastly less time. So, using my lame ass analogy, the quantum computer is a multiplication table. Finding the answer is simply going to the right place and reading the information.

Guess we will find out!

Just a conspiracy, carry on.

Regards,

Cooter

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:25 | 3419476 CH1
CH1's picture

Yeah, the guv thugs will pull out the secret Quantum Computer and crush their enemies!

And the Zero Hedge trolls will cheer: Go State! Go State! Kill! Kill! Kill!

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 22:46 | 3420566 CharlieSDT
CharlieSDT's picture

Well, quantum computing still might be several years off, even for the "geniuses" at the Pentagon, plus there's a hard limit of 21 million of Bitcoins.  With 11 million already mined, the government could only counterfeit half of the Bitcoin supply if they used their alleged quantum computer today.  That's a much lower percentage than they counterfit of fiat money without Kurzweil supercomputers.

 

http://www.singledudetravel.com/2013/03/the-single-dudes-guide-to-bitcoins/

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:43 | 3419151 malikai
malikai's picture

Yes, bitcoin is a total ponzi. Stay the fuck out muppets.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#It.27s_a_giant_ponzi_scheme

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:12 | 3419234 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

I'm waiting for my man 
Twenty-six dollars in my hand...

 

Sonovabitch said he doesn't accept twobit-coins

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:17 | 3419421 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Congratulations on making someone else rich, bitches - just make sure to collect your tips before it's too late: http://s9.postimg.org/n7fn0lhsv/Clipboard03.gif

http://nerdr.com/bitcoin-exchange-scam-bitcoins-are-worthless/

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:21 | 3419445 malikai
malikai's picture

That bottom link is absolute comedy gold.

+1 for giving me a good laugh.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:42 | 3419569 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

you can pay me in bitcoins...

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 22:34 | 3420572 CharlieSDT
CharlieSDT's picture

"There are no controls, no structure and no systems in place to keep things honest on the Bitcoin exchanges.  No Securities and Exchange Commission.  "

lol, what will we do without the SEC to keep things honest?

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 02:59 | 3420965 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Same goes for "what would happen, if there wasn't even an SEC to (not) keep things honest?"

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:57 | 3419368 Mr.Bigfoot
Mr.Bigfoot's picture

Your dollars in the bank are electronically dependent.  all 1's and 0's.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:43 | 3419152 draug
draug's picture

I believe bitcoin as a technology is awesome. Just like bittorrent is a superior technology for data distribution. Any failure of bitcoin will likely be caused by outside resistance, not from the tech itself. They didn't manage to stop bittorrent (and not for lack of trying...) - but then again piracy only p*sses off the entertainment industry. Messing with the financial system might bring some heavier resistance. We'll see.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:51 | 3419175 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Right ....dont fuck with the $..........just ask Col. Kaddafi and Saddam Hussein

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:06 | 3419219 malikai
malikai's picture

Agreed.

Please point me to the equivalent to Col Kaddaffi or Saddam Hussein. I will let the teleprompter know so he can send in the drones.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:14 | 3419245 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

there isnt one .............But if bitcoin ever becomes a threat to the dollar system (which it wont), it will cease to exist

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:31 | 3419292 malikai
malikai's picture

It won't. But it's got some particularly valuable features.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 19:32 | 3419999 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

There's a drone out there somewhere with Satoshi Nakamoto's name on it. 

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:50 | 3419177 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

They didn't manage to stop bit torrent ...
But they do seem to be able to make some (NOS) sites permanently/currently unavailable.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:13 | 3419417 CH1
CH1's picture

Let the reactionaries freak out, and keep using Bitcoin.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 00:49 | 3420838 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Hey CH1 can you call Fedex and see where my fiat money went that my bitcoin exhcange was supposed to send me? Oh wait there's no record of anything? Ponder.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 00:59 | 3420848 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

you know ZH bitcoin comments are reaching the lowest level of retard when you see "send cash through fedex" (that's after NWO currency, quantum computers, ponzi, scam, and all the other; this is the end of the line). 

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:37 | 3419122 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

-

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:40 | 3419137 seek
seek's picture

People trust that geeks have their interests at heart far more than they believe bankers do.

I'm not saying this belief it justified or valid, but I can completely get where they are coming from. There's a Robin Hood aspect to the "pirate" culture that a significant number of people, particularly younger people, have direct experience with through the sharing of music and movies via bittorrent, the pirate bay, etc. The government and entrenched interests have never done anything to help them, only persecute them -- so when the same open ethos brings them a monetary alternative that's blessed by the new priests -- the geeks -- it's not shocking this crowd supports it, and the faith grows from there. There's no faith in existing institutions that are obviously corrupted to even the mose uninitiated mind, so the faith moves to something new.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:50 | 3419173 draug
draug's picture

Good point. I think the reason is that the geeks are themselves paranoid. Bitcoin is built by and for paranoid people, in a way that means you don't HAVE to trust anyone.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:54 | 3419184 Tinky
Tinky's picture

The problem with that perspective is that it fails to take into account who is in control of the distribution system – the Internet. Geeks may well be able to cobble together small, reduntant systems, but without any guarantee that the Internet will remain essentially as it is used today, Bitcoin's viability will remain in danger.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:20 | 3419258 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Cryptology.  Go and learn what that means.

The Bitcoin Channel

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 00:50 | 3420840 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Money delivered by Fedex, please learn what gaping transfer security issues means.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 18:20 | 3419756 terryfuckwit
terryfuckwit's picture

Spot on sir... I now have added 30 % to my silver stack thanks to a small punt on the unix boys and will stay in btc at about 20% compared to metals the guy in the interview is a numpty and yes pm s although safer historically do not underestimate btc as an honest money. You will regret not having a dabble... This is honest money ...securely defined by mathematics... And yes exchanges and wallet companies etc will be hacked that operate as intermediaries ie third party risk...but the core is strong and explains why it is blowing everything out of the water....I keep telling the zh numpties cause I love them and we share thevsame enemies.....amen

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 20:46 | 3420245 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

It is showing their true color as they grasp at the feet of their masters instead of fly free of the nest when given the chance

at best call them cowards...at worst call them idiots

 

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 00:52 | 3420842 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Hey UPS? Where's my fiat package?!!! I don't know the tracking number sorry, but I know it's arriving any day now.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 20:13 | 3420136 tdag
tdag's picture

Paranoid doesn't mean bitcoin is secure. It's not. Every crypto-currency has a weakness and bitcoin has several. The most important of which is that the block chain can be forked by anyone who has just over half the processing power of the bitcoin network. Apple, Google, Amazon can all do this NOW, if they so choose. Wanna bet Goldman Sachs doesn't have its eye on bitcoin? Bitcoin is like that goat in Jurassic Park. Don't be a goat.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:09 | 3419224 ACP
ACP's picture

Yup, people tend to know what's fair and when they're getting screwed. Hollywood charging ridiculous prices for CDs, DVDs, and Blu-rays, spawned file sharing services (as soon the internets provided the ability). Yes, it against the law, but when the laws are created and abused specifically to shaft people, they fight back. Files sharing was shut down, and geeks adapted and overcame with bittorrent. Since you can use a browser, such as Torch, to share, it will be harder to shut down because a browser isn't controlled by a central system.

Bitcoin looks like to be the first iteration of the evolution of money, and will probably get shut down because the first iteration of anything is always the test case. Evolution will follow as governments become more oppressive around the world.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:48 | 3419345 DeeDeeTwo
DeeDeeTwo's picture

Doyle Brunson, legendary poker player, has always advised young poker pros that you cannot get rich unless you pay taxes. This is just a fact of life.

All of those BitCoin millionaires will eventually end up in jail for tax evasion. Or, if they are lucky, be relived of their burdens by the animal at the pinnacle of the food chain... the beautiful woman.

 

 

 

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:19 | 3419427 CH1
CH1's picture

you cannot get rich unless you pay taxes. This is just a fact of life.

Translation: "You have to get half your earnings taken from you if you want to build up your earnings."

An apt slogan for getting brain washed people to slave away eternally for the sake of the state.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:16 | 3419248 orez65
orez65's picture

It will develop just like all Ponzi schemes do, with a crash.

Bitcoin is not rocket science, just a scam.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 18:08 | 3419710 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Good if it crashes, but survives the crash that will be a great BTFD opportunity.

If it doesnt survive the crash then the next iteration will be even stronger, and better engineered.

If it doesn't crash then there will be some very sore losers around here.

Let the games begin.

"Mathematics is inadequate to describe the universe, since mathematics is an abstraction from natural phenomena. Also, mathematics may predict things which don't exist, or are impossible in nature."
- Ludovico delle Colombe [Criticizing Galileo (paraphrased).]

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 20:54 | 3420255 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

because stock markets never crash?

why is it a ponzi? you don't really understand what it is do you?

throw a tantrum with the rest here

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 22:56 | 3420630 dellievan
dellievan's picture

I don't have a penny in bct, but if I look with an open mind
to the vulnerability of all electronic transactions, I have never recalled a successful hack of Visa or Mastercard, of an existential nature. This of course does not include using a stolen credit card.

Let's kill the Fed with a thousand cuts, if bct is not your cup of tea, let the early adopter's lead the way. If they fail, the detractor's will be right. So what.

Let's focus on killing the fed (the forest), and not slam the means (the trees).

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:25 | 3419273 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

@ACP

"Putting so much faith into something about which they know very little."

I'm sorry, but how is a transparent open-source project not something people could learn about? All the documentation and code is there for anyone to scrutinize. The wiki contains explanations for various aspects, including possible obstacles to the project.

If you're referring to the propensity of people to skim an article, slap-dash a post on an online forum without much consideration, then yes, plenty of people do that - especially here.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:57 | 3419371 ACP
ACP's picture

Yes, it is open source and everyone is free to peruse the documentation, but how many people can understand what is going on by reading the source code? There are thousands of people at Microshaft who work on Windows and it will never be truly secure. Even though bitcoin runs lighter, I doubt each and every person will do the research, plus the vertical rise of the price implies that many are diving in without a second thought.

Someone above mentioned a stuxnet with bitcoin written all over it......I can totally see someone attempting to create a virus which attaches to the database and serves as a gateway for transactions, disrupting the process for many users, resulting in many holders losing faith in the currency. And a loss of faith in the currency is all it takes, as we see with fiat all over the world.

It really boils down to personal preference, I guess. I'll stick with something that's worked for thousands of years.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:12 | 3419407 malikai
malikai's picture

Sorry dude, but quoting MS in regards to security is just hilarious.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 18:29 | 3419810 ACP
ACP's picture

True dat, true dat.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 20:58 | 3420273 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

What database?   the only ones are on exchanges and online wallets.. no database in the blockchain.. and you dont have to use exchanges and online wallets.. they are added convienence

 

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 21:27 | 3420316 ACP
ACP's picture

The blockchain is the database.

"A block chain is a transaction database shared by all nodes participating in a system based on the Bitcoin protocol."

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_chain

 

Not trying to be smug, but being the skeptic, I shouldn't have to explain this.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:25 | 3419478 YC2
YC2's picture

Dude how else do you get to be first?!? Also, you're only cool if you're anti everything and only support untenable utopian solutions and describe any incremental movement toward them as controlled opposition. Duh.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:31 | 3419103 rajat_bhatia
rajat_bhatia's picture

Life is a Ponzi Scheme. What you gonna do?

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:38 | 3419131 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Life is as succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood -- H. Keller

The lessons are mandatory, you only get to choose when (or in which life) you take them.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:14 | 3419239 Banksters
Banksters's picture

she ded.  

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:32 | 3419104 vmromk
vmromk's picture

Hmmmm.........let me see,,,,,,
One Bitcoin at $162 in some fictitious cyber wallet, or five ounces of silver in my hand......
Yeah, that's a tough one to figure out.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:28 | 3419281 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

I have a lot of silver as well Einstein.  1000 bitcoins bought at 2 bucks in 2011 buys nearly 6000 ounces of silver.  Looks like someone missed the boat ;-)

The Bitcoin Channel

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:21 | 3419444 CH1
CH1's picture

They don't want to know - they just want to slash at something different.

Their loss. Less demand means a slower rise and better accumulation for those who do give enough of a shit to inform themselves.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:43 | 3419568 ManOfBliss
ManOfBliss's picture

I do know.

I like things that are new and different.

The political risk of participating in Bitcoin is DRAMATIC.

Having fun converting back to dollars and trying to avoid the IRS for tax fraud.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 20:41 | 3420227 CH1
CH1's picture

Yeah, we get it: Fear the IRS.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 21:03 | 3420284 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

convert back to what?? why??  but it is easy as pie for someone to give me $$$ and I send them bitcoins... 

this isnt fucking paypal

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 00:55 | 3420845 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Right, because they have to MAIL you the money. Totally secure, see?

Tue, 04/09/2013 - 00:44 | 3425158 jonytk
jonytk's picture

in person, to your friend that missed the boat...

in fact i would not do bussiness with some shady random person that can't get verify at mtgox.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 08:59 | 3421401 PaperWillBurn
PaperWillBurn's picture

Update 7oz. You can now have 7oz in your hand. or wait a week and have a dozen

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:37 | 3419105 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Step right up...

get your tulips right here...  they're going up fast...

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:40 | 3419115 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

echo post

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:35 | 3419119 draug
draug's picture

So I guess you can fit your house in your pocket?

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:44 | 3419153 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

+1 - But as long as I'm paying (or even passing on to the tenants) property taxes I don't really feel like I totally own it.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:44 | 3419144 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

@vmromk

What will be very interesting is what happens in May for the equity markets.

"WhenToTrade" did a cycle analysis regarding bitcoin and the Dow. ( Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugnEGYPwx2M&feature=youtu.be )

Here's his chart of the Dow denominated in BTC:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzdbolIn7zf1VVZxZHNrcndTeGc/edit?usp=sha...

Here's his chart of the Bitcoin/Dow cycle - which implies a bitcoin rally precedes Dow declines:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzdbolIn7zf1OUFieWpFazI0OHM/edit?usp=sha...

Whatever your opinion is about bitcoin, I'd say "Sell in May and go away" is going to have some teeth this time around.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:47 | 3419164 vmromk
vmromk's picture

I've been reading the same market predictions for the last five years.
The market will not go down in any meaningful way unless fuckhead Bernanke wants it to go down.
Shorting the market in a money printing environment is a sucker's bet.
Only things you can count on are silver and gold.
Any paper asset you have will eventually reach its intrinsic value.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:42 | 3419317 jtlien
jtlien's picture

The first big parabolic rise in Bitcoin, in spring of 2011 was fallowed by crash in the stock market 4 months later but also it led to the peak prices (so far) in gold and silver in Oct/Nov 2011.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 21:06 | 3420296 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

how is Jul '13 before Jan '13?

 

 

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:45 | 3419162 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"Ponzi"? Perhaps.

You can make A LOT of money in a ponzi if ya play it right.

I say speculate with a sensible amount of speculation capital.

 

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:04 | 3419214 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Bitcoin, the new .com, housing, facebook, etc.? Let's all be little Blankfeins, Dimons, Corzines - it's only evil if they do it...

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 18:35 | 3419825 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Personally, I don't gamble.  But some enjoy that.  Anything else?

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 21:07 | 3420302 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

how is it a ponzi again?

please try to not get mad when all you can reply with is gibberish fears

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 03:01 | 3420968 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Personally, I don't keep my savings in a bank, but some do that. What's your point?

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:56 | 3419188 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Dude if you don't know by now that you can put BitCoins in your pocket you never will.

Quadrupaling is nothing. It still has to go up 4795 times from here before it will begin to stabilize.

Will you believe it once Amazon and netflix begin taking payments in BitCoin?

One very interesting thing is that a company can get extremely competitive by first purchasing lots of BitCoins and then offering their goods and services in BitCoin.

This thing will overshoot and exceed 5000 times its current value from here.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:49 | 3419581 ManOfBliss
ManOfBliss's picture

Large corpoartions like Amazon and Netflix will NEVER EVER accept Bitcoin.

Participation in Bitcoin is absolutely going to be prohibited or penalized in severe way by the Feds, and the IRS.

It's an underground, black market currency that competes with national currencies.

Bitcoin violates Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution:

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

 

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 20:53 | 3420258 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Then scrip should be illegal also by that logic but it isn't.

By that logic amazon will be raided by the feds any second since this is illegal also according to that.

https://developer.amazon.com/post/Tx2EZGRG23VNQ0K/Introducing-Amazon-Coi...

 

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 22:38 | 3420582 ManOfBliss
ManOfBliss's picture

Amazon Coins are totally different. They are an internal token system.

That's totally different from an international digital crypto-currency with it's own speculative market.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 16:03 | 3421788 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

More importantly, corporations want (need) price/value stability - imagine people trading in bitcoins with price going up/down 10/20%, and sellers losing money on the deal or customers feeling ripped off.

It's a chicken and egg situation: bitcoin needs corporate adoption to reach stability; corporations need bitcoin stability before adopting it.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:02 | 3419205 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Bubblecoin - it's up until it's not.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:17 | 3419242 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

I mined a few about a year ago when GPU mining was worth it.  They have been sitting in my wallet since then since I couldnt be bothered figuring out how to use them.  IN the past week I opened a Mt. Gox account and will be selling them so I can buy some Ping woods.  I will tell you it is a challenge getting those coins to Mt. Gox, sold and cash back in my real wallet.

 

I do feel a little like a banker; my computer crunched for a couple of weeks and pooof, I got a set of Ping woods.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 21:13 | 3420310 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

you don't have to sell on exchange, you can go local and just get cash for them

https://localbitcoins.com/

 

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 01:00 | 3420849 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Thank link has people trying to sell their bitcoins for 20% over face value. Nothing different than buying Black Lotus cards on ebay.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 03:37 | 3420994 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

I sold my mint black lotus in '97 to someone in Hawaii.. i think just $190 back then

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 19:27 | 3419983 Croesus
Croesus's picture

Guess Brandon Smith had the same idea I had, or else he read my comments on ZH back on 4/3:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-03/bitcoins-go-parabolic#comment-3...

 

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 22:05 | 3420466 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

The reactions of people here about Bitcoin is interesting. With all the hype you hear about it, I thought I was the only one who remained skeptical about it. Though, I really need to dig much deeper into the details to make an informed decision.

Perhaps I've read too many accounts about the use of technology to surveil and manipulate the public to completely trust anything 'virtual' at all. 

My fear -  Future News Flash 2016:  Whistleblower reveals that Bitcoin was conceived as an NSA Op from the very beginning. Bitcoin gamed up and later gamed down in spectacular crash. Investors devastated.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 22:26 | 3420552 btb2010
btb2010's picture

1 kilo GOLD Bar (32.15 oz)

We Buy- BitCoin 298.38

We Sell - BitCoin 340.76

 

http://www.goldsilverbitcoin.com/product-category/gold/

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 23:37 | 3420722 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

It's on my hard drive, and the hard drives of thousands of other people dispersed across the globe.  Government agents can steal what's in my pocket.  They can't steal my Bitcoins.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:34 | 3419087 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

The only Bitcoin worth buying:

?10 Silver Casascius Coin: One solid troy ounce of .999 fine silver, combined with ten Bitcoins. Comes in a protective capsule and a hinged presentation box. 39mm diameter. Two versions available: one in plain silver, and one with gold-plated B.

https://www.casascius.com/

But that one silver ounce would now cost you 1650 dollar....

BITCOIN CONCIDERS SILVER MORE PRECIOUS THAN GOLD RIGHT NOW!!!!

NUTS?!?!

YEAH!! BET SJAH!!

"REAL VALUE" OF A BITCOIN = 2,8$!!! NOT 165$!!

And just for the fun of it, I'd pay about 40$ for a ounce of bitcoin just as collectors item... I'd store it next to my Enron book of ethics that I bought on Ebay a few years back.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 19:33 | 3420007 Croesus
Croesus's picture

THE ORIGINAL BITCOIN:

"By far the leading specie coin circulating in America was the Spanish silver dollar, defined as consisting of 387 grains of pure silver. The dollar was divided into "pieces of eight," or "bits," each consisting of one-eighth of a dollar. Spanish dollars came into the North American colonies through lucrative trade with the West Indies. The Spanish silver dollar had been the world's outstanding coin since the early 16th century, and was spread partially by dint of the vast silver output of the Spanish colonies in Latin America. More important, however, was that the Spanish dollar, from the 16th to the 19th century, was relatively the most stable and least debased coin in the Western world"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dollar

PS> Silver coins can be made into "Bit coins", but Bitcoins cannot be made into Silver coins......'nuff said.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:27 | 3419089 kushmere
kushmere's picture

Bitcoin has yet to prove itself, but do not think that designing the worlds' first non-fuckable currency without a government would be easy. 

 

http://bestbitcoinsites.wordpress.com

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:17 | 3419428 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Bitcoin has yet to prove itself

Bitcoin is not the issue, it is WHO started / floated  the idea.I think anyone with half a brain that watched the 2nd video,will agree this is EXACTLY where they want the entire world to be.IF any digiital currency was adopted, it will be exactly what the entire Cabal wants.Totally trackable, and totally under the PTB's control.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 22:40 | 3420584 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Hmm, tracking an encrypted file of seemingly random bits...how is this a worthwhile endeavour for TPTB?

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 01:06 | 3420851 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

You are stuck sending and receiving your money through the mail. The day is coming they will stop packages of fiat money with no explanation in the envelope for what the fiat is doing there.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:31 | 3419100 Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

Bitcoin is exhibiting the behavior you would expect from gold if it wasn't being manipulated down.

I'm sure Ben is working right now on how to get the bitcoin value down.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:31 | 3419101 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

bitcoin is like art ...as long as people value it..it has value..as the painter/scupltor/craftsman produces more it is subject to the same criteria

same with economics...has no intrinsic value..economics is art imitating reality

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:36 | 3419126 draug
draug's picture

Same as gold, in other words. "Value" is and always has been subjective.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:25 | 3419468 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Same as gold, in other words. "Value" is and always has been subjective.

No.

Go back 5000yrs, and see what 1oz of Gold would buy, and then do the same with 1oz today.( you will see they will be almost at 100% parity.)Plus it has the added benefit of a tangible object.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 19:39 | 3420022 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

Where did you buy your nice computer 5000 years ago for 1 oz of gold? 

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 01:08 | 3420856 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Exactly! Gold: tons of labor to mine, since antiquity. Overclocked silicone chips? not so labor intensive, since it's inception.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 21:23 | 3420348 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

so you're saying that gold's price has never been manipulated?  coins shaved, paper market oversold...etc?

but all gold bugs want gold to be $100,000 or some 'true' value when you say it should just buy you a nice tailored suit..  well, yeah, you can still get that half decent suit but dont look at the Zegna's.. that's for people with bitcoins

 

 

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 21:29 | 3420369 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

kinda late to botnet mine with cpus/gpus..but all you are losing is using your electric and system to send a tiny fraction to this guy's wallet/miner

screw skype anyway.. more virus/trojans with that then IE ever had

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:31 | 3419106 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

it makes sense to buy a 30k bitcoin miner which costs at production cost maybe 60$...
There's a lot of stupid people out there. And they're proud to jump into a crocodile invested swimmingpool...

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 03:39 | 3420996 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

wow is that the 'only costs $5 to dig silver outta the ground' moment for bitcoins?

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:31 | 3419108 FIAT
FIAT's picture

going the way of the pet rock

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:58 | 3419645 akak
akak's picture

At least with the Pet Rock, you could throw it through a window and thereby increase GDP in good Krugmanesque fashion.

How do I throw a Bitcoin?

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 20:13 | 3420137 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Step 1. Copy and paste bit coin to "notepad" or similar program.

Step 2. print out bit coin

step 3. Screw up paper.

Step 4. While holding paper make brisk move with hand while simultaneously loosening grip on paper.

Please note: Bit coin must be not be completely destroyed or economic loss may result.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 20:19 | 3420153 Mad Cow
Mad Cow's picture

You could put it on a CD and throw it like a frisbee?

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 20:41 | 3420236 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Actually the pet rock idea is a great idea for where to store your BTC. No one would ever suspect that the little fellow contained any value...

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:40 | 3419133 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

the comment above makes a lot of sense. bitcoin is doing what you would expect from gold, except as santelli pointed out, gold has been securitized. My guess is bitcoin continues to rise until at some point, successful or not, massive attempts to knock it down start occuring.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:06 | 3419399 Being Free
Being Free's picture

Wonder when we can expect the first BTC Trust ETF to hit the tape?

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:40 | 3419135 Desert Irish
Desert Irish's picture

Big Room. Small Door.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:40 | 3419142 Debugas
Debugas's picture

time to start a new project - bitcoin2 - same as bitcoin but with more digits

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:34 | 3419294 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Already been done.  It's called Litecoin.  You might need to study things a bit more ;-)

The Bitcoin Channel

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 17:59 | 3419657 akak
akak's picture

I'm personally waiting for BrawndoCoin --- it's got electrolytes!

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 20:24 | 3420182 Mad Cow
Mad Cow's picture

What about spending at the Titty Bar? Doesn't seem like as much fun? I've never been to one, so I don't know :p

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 22:12 | 3420509 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Sorry, you'll need TitCoin for that

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 01:10 | 3420858 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Wait, hookers don't take bitcoin? We need Sorosfucktard to educate the local hookers on how valuable bitcoin is.

P.S. If you can't buy pussy with it = worthless.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:44 | 3419143 Arturo
Arturo's picture

I am currently starting with Bitcoin. Apparently I have to download a 6GB file, containing all the transaction performed in history, in order to start using it. And the download is very SLOOOOOW.

How can a normal person use this? What happens when the transactions skyrocket? Do the Bitcoin promoters expect my Mom to download a 500GB file in order to use this? WTF gents, WTF!!!

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:47 | 3419157 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

BitCoins are like ObamaCare...

you won't discover all the ramifications until they slap you up side the head with a 2x4.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:45 | 3419163 seek
seek's picture

You're using the official baseline client meant for people who are actually going to be full nodes on the network.

There are other clients that are much, much faster and simpler.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:47 | 3419165 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

@Arturo

The v0.8.0 client takes about ~3 hours to synchronize. When you downloaded it, did you see the explantion of different clients at http://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet ? They recently redesigned the site and it offers a better expectation of how different clients behave.

There are improvements in the pipeline for the main client to handle the increasing blockchain or transaction ledger size. The core developers are very aware of this need.

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:53 | 3419180 Arturo
Arturo's picture

@TraderTimm

Bitcoin-Qt is the original Bitcoin client and it builds the backbone of the network. It offers the highest levels of security, privacy and stability. However it has fewer features and it takes a lot of space and memory.

Any normal person would download that one with that description. Note the "highest levels of security". Why would average joe download the apps with the lowest level of security?

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:00 | 3419204 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

@Arturo

I agree that more progress must be made in the main client, but personally I don't think synchronizing for a few hours is that high of a price to pay - unless you're powering your gear with a bicycle generator :)

You made the choice that fit you, and that is really what it's all about. Third party services are inherently less secure - but for some it makes sense for smaller amounts. I prefer the main client just like you did - so there's the price, longer startup that you have the first time.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 01:15 | 3420866 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

High security is the ONLY choice, this is supposedly money. Do you leave your wallet lying on the table at burger king when you use the bathroom? Again, it won't be adopted by anyone except people who own a copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 03:44 | 3421000 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

yuppers!!

https://www.bitcoinstore.com/

up to $177 now??  ya'll still gotta wait for the markets to open and see if gold can crawl .3% up?

 

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 15:44 | 3419155 Kiss My Iceland...
Kiss My Icelandic Ass's picture

"Bitcoin Quadrupling "

I think there was a time when prices for tulip bulbs quadrupled. Many times over ....

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:06 | 3419189 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

@Kiss My Iceland...

There are also times when adoption rates continued until reaching a rather lofty peak, and then a gentle plateau.

Technology Adoption Chart from 1900 - 2005:

https://visualeconsite.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/histo...

I'm sure someone was saying the automobile was a 'fad' and a 'bubble' too...

Update: Here's a particularly fitting one

I'd ban all automobiles from the central part of the city. You see, the automobile was just a passing fad. It's got to go. It's got to go a long way from here.” -- Lawrence Ferlinghetti - born in 1919 and still alive today. I wonder what he thinks about cars now :)

 

Sun, 04/07/2013 - 16:10 | 3419228 Kiss My Iceland...
Kiss My Icelandic Ass's picture

My point is, bitcoin is more like tulip bulbs than automobiles :) Time will tell .

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