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Rethinking Money With Bitcoin Quadrupling Since Cyprus
Since the beginning of the Cyprus debacle (followed by Russia's call for repatriation of all offshore capital and then Japan's willful debasement of their currency), which appears to have awoken many to the fact that banks and politicians can't be trusted , the 'price' of the virtual currency Bitcoin has quadrupled - touching an incredible $162 this morning. While most people believe the only way to 'spend' this currency is on drugs or blogging sites, Liberty Blitzkrieg's Mike Krieger points out there are in fact hundreds of places (growing daily) where this as-yet unregulated store of wealth can be spent. However, what is really driving this surge in demand for a different kind of 'money' is the wholesale loss of faith in the status quo - nowhere is this clearer than in the words and actions of the people of Cyprus and this devastating clip capturing the thoughts and feelings of ordinary Cypriots after their bank accounts were frozen. "Nothing has started yet... everything is going to fall down like dominoes because people don't trust the banks."
and perhaps this last bump is due to Portugal's latest attempt at herding cats...
And the following insightful brief documentary is how real people - not the mouthpieces projected on TV - feel in the streets of Cyprus about the confiscation of their savings...
And Brandon Smith's rather more direct take on the Bitcoin phenomena specifically - "Ignore It..."
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Time so far has already told that you are wrong. How much more time do you need? Bitcoin has run from one penny to 162 dollars. Why don't you tell us at what price or time you will admit you don't know what you are talking about?
The Bitcoin Channel
LOL!
Actually, I think you just proved your detractor's point.
The clueless geek squad ---- gotta love 'em!
You have to be fucking kidding?!!
Comparing Bitcoin to a car?!
Bitcoin is just like fiat money.
If you have any brains sell all your Bitcoins NOW.
@orez65
While contrary opinions make markets, I think your opinion is more of a long-term statement. I think you're wrong. If anything, I'd say this is just the beginning of bitcoin challenging sovereign issued currency based on debt.
Respectfully, I disagree. What do you think accounts for the recent parabolic move in Bitcoins? It's Europeans moving money out of their banks before half their life savings is confiscated.
Bank runs in the modern era are usually identified in hindsight, and banks runs caused by fear of bank insolvency tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
There are bank runs all over Europe happening right now, and once identified, will only worsen.
This is just the beginning, soon many in Europe will require a secure way to easily and anonymously move money across borders in a way that evades sovereign capital controls. Bitcoin is an elegant solution for that problem.
Bitcoin will double from here long before it sees anything even remotely resembling a crash.
I don't own it, don't completely understand it, but I do understand the macro issues that are currently driving it and will continue to drive it.
My thoughts mirror your own on this matter.
Bitcoin is a lot like Paypal, except the funds are in YOUR possession, and no one has to know your bank acct/credit card acct info for you to use them.
and also a boon to sellers.. no chargebacks and no crazy fees
many escrow services popping up to flesh out bigger ticket items as well
"What do you think accounts for the recent parabolic move in Bitcoins? It's Europeans moving money out of their banks before half their life savings is confiscated."
Can anyone prove the bitcoin price increase is because of people in Cyprus, Greece, Italy, Spain, etc all having sudden moves into BitCoin?
Is there a sudden mass of blockchain traffic heading to these regions as they download the 6+gig setup?
We hear about the price going up because of these places 'getting out' of their currencies and that's why bitcoin adoption is raising the price - but can anyone prove it?
Most bitcoin spuikers i've read on the net seems to be American fearing their currency is going to turn to dust while believing their bitcoin collection will save their ass because people like Keiser have promised huge returns as everyone adopts it.
What evidence exists (please show me if it's out there) to prove these claims? Everyone seems to just 'believe' in bitcoin and the more they try to explain why others should believe in it, the more they start to believe in things that don't really have any proof or evidence to back them up.
at this stage only 1% of them moving into bitcoin would move the market.. it has a long way to climb
A funny snippet from a bitcoin forum if you search for bitcoin market making:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49041.0
Post from 2011?? compare transactions then to now. it was very much less liquid then.
Up 5% with no transaction is still funny. The post is not that old, 1.5 years. Even if it was Tradehill and the market is now 10,000 times more liquid and retard bots are less retard, there are big guns in other markets, who could pump it even only just for giggles.
Like how a bunch of retards pumped oil to 100 for the first time in history cause they allegedly were 'collecting price prints like others are collecting art prints' and the lemmings chased it up to 147.
FUDster busted. Try again.
I shot an email to nanex to see if they are monitoring Mt Gox yet.... for the Lulz
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/its-a-trap
"Cover me, Porkins!" http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/cover-me-porkins
Ponzi meaning those at the top get out quick? But thing with bitcoin is people are creating shops, services, etc that take them. Does this sound like a dash and cash? Guess to some people new things are scary.
Keep downvoting- every vote lets me gauge who here is scared of technology. lol.
1) Computers are not the sum total of "technology", and I resent the computer geeks' appropriation of that broad word for their one narrow context;
2) Just because Bitcoin is integrally associated with computer technology and the internet does not automatically mean that it is not, or might not, be a bad idea;
3) Just because one might be wary or skeptical of Bitcoin does not automatically mean that that person is therefore "scared of technology".
With such glaringly and fundamentally flawed logic, you not only do not lend any credence to that which you are trying to defend, you actually add to the skepticism and criticism of those to whom Bitcoin raises red flags. Good job.
Maybe those who's red flags are raised should do some actual research and investigation rather than bringing up 2 year old debunked FUD. Start here:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths
The Bitcoin Channel
"If it's new, it's just got to be a good idea!"
The refrain of trend-suckers throughout the ages.
I can't help but notice that it is that kind of kneejerk assumption, and the groupthink behind it, that leads all you 20-somethings to spurning the use of cash, and laying out your entire lives on the internet for anyone and everyone to see, and willingly letting yourself be tracked and monitored on your omnipresent cellphones and other i-gadgets, fundamentally destroying not only your own privacy but in the end that of everyone, while enabling the total surveillance Big Brother state to increase its grip on all of us.
What both the modern mindless consumer and the trend-sucking geek squad consistently fail to recognize is that for every "advancement", technological or otherwise, there is an associated cost, both personal and societal --- and more to the point, that many of those costs (to privacy and freedom) are now far outweighing the putative benefits of many of these recent "advancements".
Ahh yes the Burning Man Playa Bitcoin Anarchists with their Google Glasses. Pwned.
speak for yourself.. GenX is all over bitcoins and I'll take side of 3D printing as well
fuck all the norms and what they control
As much as I like the idea...
something smells fishy.
too fast
too high..
I thought about buying some 5k EURO worth of bitcoin ... but
sites are either down or sometimes you get network errors
and buy / sell spread ends up being about 8 to 10%.
So - only good for speculation.
Nope... not now --although it is tempting.
Something is wrong here I just dont know what.
If I buy bullion coins, I hop over to my preferred dealer, I can see them coins, touch them, measure them, weigh them and pay cash.
If I sell them I can get cash, - any fiat , anywhere - or trade directly for any good.
Ever been to Maghreb (Marocco et. al.)? Go to a souk. Try bitcoin. Gold - yes. Bitcoin ? Non monsieur.
Can anybody tell me what may possibly be the point about bitcoins that makes my stomach feel funny !?
Sorry but gold is not nearly as liquid here in the US. There are stores in NYC that take bitcoin. Gold, nope.
You can buy gold with bitcoin and sell it for bitcoin. So i dont know how that fits into your arguement.
There are plenty of stores in NYC that will accept gold...
I'm not talking about jewelry stores. He's talking about trading goods for goods. bitcoins for food. i dont know of any deli tha will take gold, not to say they wouldnt want to . but its harder to authenticate gold than a bitcoin.
I know what you meant, but the way you worded it was likely to draw out the masses of Joo-bashers just on sloppiness and ease of prey. But seriously- doesn't NYC have a plethora of pawn-shops which will trade gold (and have for many decades) for any of the wide variety of durable goods they normally carry? At the same time gold is becoming more and more accepted on the internet (for an example I have personal experience with see http://www.ktordnance.com/kto/order.php).
I have PM and BTC because I'm a pure pragmatist, not a PM Theologian. It's called hedging, not worshipping.
Truth be told, I can buy LOT more things with BTC than PM: Bitcoin is far more liquid and portable. E.g., I can't move $100k of a mix of PM in my international travel, but I can buy it with Bitcoin wherever I like. Isn't that precious?
BTW, true BTFD stackers actually like the price dip that Bitcoin is helping to create, as they just buy more. It is the fake gold bugs, who are price speculating, who are getting screwed and are totally pissed. If they had more brains and skill, they'd hedge with contracts, to cover down-drafts.
Go stackers, go Bitcoiners! Fuck the speculators!
Glad you made a distinction between stackers and speculators!
My stomach feels funny too because it is "fiat money": a digital note, a promise.
It is not money.
I think many people doubt the security of it. It is perfectly secure in principle. However, it would be crazy to use with your ordinary spyware/virus/etc-infected non-firewalled computer. It is anything but secure in that environment. Not to mention that you need a great backup. It think those problems will be solved soon (keeping your wallet keys off the fucking computer!) but for now you better know exactly what you are doing or you will look like a big target plate.
Wait, you mean everyone doesn't know how to use Tor and Tormail? Would they even know to push the button to turn noscript on, to actually make it work correctly?
don't worry, we'll make it all safe and simple once it hits $10,000 and the price is stable
then you can roll your 401k into it, etc
Silberadler,
Nope... not now --although it is tempting.
Something is wrong here I just dont know what.
Easy one for me, the three letter inventors....................SEEIA.PLUS it's exactly what the PTB want for total global control.How much more shit do you need to get covered in, before you figure out the end game?.
I won't buy any but I am rooting for them.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the Bit. What's next, digital punani?
"the internet could shut down tomorrow"...hahahhaaa! And your cash and gold will be worth what with no internet?
All money is cyber money, all money is digital money. Try buying a pair of shoes in my store with some gold dust.
Bitcoin may or may not prove viable...my money is that it will and I'm buying them twice per month now.
If bitcoin collapses I'll wager too that everything collapses. You won't have enough gold for one of my cans of spam then
"And your cash and gold will be worth what with no internet?"
Well, it is true that gold and silver had no value at all in human history until Al Gore invented the internet.
+1 for bitcoin!
What the fuck is an interweb? You mean I have to go buy a 1500 computer to send some mail? Why not just use a .35 cent stamp?
Why should I use paypal when I can just send someone a check for free? That shit will never take off.
Bitch Coin? I don't know, electronic money sounds kind of hokey. I feel so much better knowing that my bank has all my paper just waiting for ME to get it whenever I want.
Let's ask a random Cypriot how much they trust their bank(s) these days...
What the fuck is Tormail? You mean I have to understand how Noscript works? Can't I just use all this in Internet Explorer? I look forward to the first grandma who tries this and gets fried and tries to sue an exchange.
how's the lawsuits on Corzine going?
Book me a ride on that thar ship, Tuliptanic
The more I look at bitcoin, the more I'm convinced it's a MOSSAD operation...
@francis_sawyer
No recommendations based on race assignment? You must be on your meds.
The more 'junks' I get from jews & bitcoin geeks [on a plethora of comments]... The more I believe my first comment was accurate...
LOL, Bitcoin geeks have now attained the exalted ranks of the Jews, as objects of your obsession!
Spread the hate! 24/7!
Obsessed?... With fucking what?...
~~~
I'm good to go either way [lifestyle wise ~ which you know fucking NOTHING about]...
Either people find merit in my observations, OR THEY DON'T... Apparently ~ you DON'T... So who the fuck gives a shit besides you?...
@francis_sawyer
Actually, having seen you post these past 2 years and 40 weeks, I have a really good sense of what you're about. If you can't infer something using a race-based tag, you usually won't do it.
I don't know who kicked sand in your face those many years ago at the playground, I just wish you'd take out your angst on a punching bag instead of spewing bile in this forum.
HuffPo > That's a place where you are sure to find quality thinking [& peace of mind]...
@francis_sawyer
While I'm glad you refrained from your usual race-baiting, I'm sorry I can't take your recommendation - no matter how much you enjoy that site, I don't really like how they distort stories for pageviews.
Let's cut all the syrupy crap...
~~~
- You hate me because you think I hate jews...
- You also hate me because I'm not an advocate of bitcoin...
I've stated millions of times... on ZH [I've never posted anywhere else, nor do I read any other news aggregator]... That the reason jews are untrustworthy to me is that they disproportionately represent the POWER nodes of MSM, GLOBAL BANKING, & POLITICAL ACTIVISM...
Nobody... ever... in 2 years & 40 weeks has come forth with a reasonable explanation as to why that is the case... MsCreant took a stab at it the other week, but it was the dopey-est motherfucking bit of reasoning that I've heard... [Something along the lines of 'ghetto' jews are home schooled, leading to the higher advancement in society, whereas, 'ghetto' blacks' are actually pressured into idolizing 'athletes' which is why they succeed in the NBA...
Say fucking what?
Now ~ if you can tell me why, on ZH, every single day there's thread upon thread which expose the utter farcical aspet of MSM. GLOBAL BANKING, & POLITICAL ACTIVISM... Yet why... jews... who are HUGELY & STATISTICALLY MIND BOGGINGLY over represented thereto... yet have NOTHING TO ANSWER FOR... Then I'm all ears...
~~~
As for bitcoin...
- Nobody knows WHO invented it [or who, perhaps, controls a significant cache]
- Yet it has quadrupled in value over the past 3 weeks...
&, of course... You... Being the RESIDENT EXPERT & ZH 'bile' police... Have an answer for that too...
Goodnight!
Sawyer, we don't hate you, we revile you as an obsessive hate-monger.
Some of us think you work for Cass Sunstein.
Some of us think you are a Nazi.
In reality, you probably work for a Jewish guy and steal from him.
"In reality, you probably work for a Jewish guy and steal from him."
Mmmm the Khazar is strong in this one. +1 on the setup idea.
no usury in bitcoins... nothing to see here Jews, slither along
I think noboday can argue you lack in consistency. I cherish the rock-solid predictability you provide in this awfully shifty world, as well as the diversity of opinions on this forum.
> The more I look at bitcoin, the more I'm convinced it's a MOSSAD operation...
Yes, because Mossad would unleash a decentralized, peer-to-peer currency outside of the reach and influence of their employers. Oddly, this currency also threatens their employers' powerbase.
What a dastardly scheme. Mossad is almost as smart as you are.
Blow me...
~~~
As always... all you one dimensional pea brained bitcoiners can even postualte on are the 'technical' aspects...
QUADRUPLE???... In 3 weeks???
That's the game... BE MY GUEST... Go all in...
@francis "off the rails" sawyer
Oh dear, seems your meds have given out again. You may want to seek different treatment.
I'm off my meds & "off the rails"... Yet you're touting parabolic bitcoin at the moment...
~~~
WTFever...
Francis, I'm your worst nightmare. I'm a bitcoin holder and I'm a Jew.
You're not MY nightmare... I could give a flying fuck about you...
~~~
You're your own problem...
We were talking about you at the synagogue. Rabbi Lipshitz is upset at your reaction to his Mossad cell's Bitcoin operation.
Don't you have some wells to poison on the West Bank or something? Or perhaps a girl under 13, since the Talmud condones it.
"The more I look at [place anything here], the more I'm convinced it's a MOSSAD[Zionist] operation..."
There, fixed it for ya ;-)
What is stopping central banksters from driving it up to 500 bucks and then pulling the rug out?
Right. From now on, it's picking up pennys in front of a steamroller.
It is not in a Central Banksters nature to do things that are logical. Once they start printing to purchase BitCoins they will shuffle them off to their personal stashes just like they did with the United States of America gold reserves.
Like i said. It's getting riskier by the day. Very risky, btc is a controllable asset, easy to manipulate (as soon as it becomes mainstream it will be taxed, algo'd, fucked up) and a very welcome distraction to be used by the dept. of wealth redistribution.
@debtor of last...
Easy to manipulate, eh? We look forward to you calling a price and time out in the future then - and seeing if you're right. :)
Wow. That's a terrifying risk. Maybe they will print up enough money and drive bitcoin to a million dollars and all the early adopters become billionaires. Genius. Did you think of that all by yourself?
The Bitcoin Channel
Pray tell how are going to wash a million+ dollars worth of bitcoins back into cash at once as the current infrastructure is set up, yes I know it will evolve and adapt as usage grows. Any good system that will stand up long term needs to be resillient and flexible. At least from here it seems there is more resistance for money flowing out of bitcoin than into it at the moment so I don't see how one could become a "instant" millionaire in dollars holding that large scale value of equivalent bitcoins.
Since there is a withdrawal daily limit, you are correct sir.
> it will be taxed
Tax bitcoins? How does the IRS know you have them? Did you tell them?
How are you going to convert back to dollars, or into any other investment vehicle.
Surely you're not planning on keeping all your bitcoins as bitcoins forever.
Have fun converting back into fiat and facing the IRS for audits under suspicion of money laundering, tax evasion, and more.
@Banksters
The same thing that is stopping you from leveraging all your credit and buying your favorite cross-pair on Forex. Market forces are rather tyrannical when you try to manipulate something.
BTC is like Depardieu. But it cannot move to Moscow.
Maybe you missed this one:
Russians most interested in Bitcoin, searches showIf Walmart wished to make up for its vacant shelve losses it would simply have to purchase lots of Bitcoins on the sly and then announce it was going to begin accepting payments in Bitcoin. It would then bring in extra billions on the quarter simply from its purchases from BitCoin it had previously purchased..
what about local currencies like Ithaca dollars or Berkshares?
My Avon rep recommends I purchase my Bitcoins from her.
Wow. You're a really smart guy. I want to be like you.
And you fail to see why that makes her the smartest Avon lady on the planet.
Looking through the list of places where I could spend BitCoins, I see that I could purchase alpaca socks, miniature cannons, t-shirts made in Berlin from garbage, web hosting, fire-sticks, webdesign, mp3's, beautiful HTML5 content, sunglasses, and a book about witch trials in the state of Maryland.
I don't see groceries, except for "survival food," mainly MRE's and crystallized eggs. I can, however, buy yoga mats.
Until the local grocery store takes BitCoins, or until I can readily exchange them for a currency that the local grocery store accepts, they're not useful. I can't store value in them over the long term, because I don't have confidence that I'll be able to exchange them in the future for useful currencies or items at a favorable rate.
Gold (and silver), on the other hand, can be exchanged in virtually any town at some sort of gold broker or coin shop. That's key. Commodities are not necessarily currency, but commodities that have little liquidity or use outside of ordering yoga mats and toy cannons over the internet are not of much interest to my muppet self. Plus, physical possession means no virus, no internet disruption or killswitch, no power failure can keep me from my gold—only tragic and wholly unforeseen boating accidents.
I take it that you didn't hear of these payment processors?
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/How_to_accept_Bitcoin,_for_small_businesses (Near the bottom section)
They had a problem in the early days getting people to accept credit cards as 'real' money, I suppose it is the same psychological barrier for bitcoin adoption - although the younger generations are sussing it out pretty quickly.
So, which one of those payment processors does your local grocery store use?
@Telemakhos
Amazon has some things for sale, I believe. You might want to use a fancy gadget called a 'search engine' to find out.
Straw Man.
And what happens when the gubbermint outlaws the use of such payments in stores, or taxes the transactions to the moon?
> what happens when the gubbermint outlaws the use of such payments in stores, or taxes the transactions to the moon?
What happens to all things desired by people that the government outlaws? The price goes through the roof.
Let them try to tax Bitcoin transactions. That would be a amusing spectacle of futility and would show the government to be as powerless as it is with regard to Bitcoin.
Futile? Really? If they outlaw its use without tax collection, how many vendors do you imagine will use it?
> how many vendors do you imagine will use it?
All of the vendors around the world unaffected by US law won't care.
Heh, people seem to keep forgetting that little advantage of being decentralized and worldwide. You can never shut the whole network down unless no one can use the software. They can't stop that or cut off transmissions with a little care in how you transmit data. It is self idiot policing.
Great! Those living in the U.S. can buy foreign good directly! How useful!
Which grocery store takes gold?
I bought bitcoins at $5, traded some of them out at $60 for gold and silver:
http://amagimetals.com
http://goldsilverbitcoin.com
Or you could just continue to deride what you don't seem to want to understand.
W/o naming names, I wonder when Bitcoin haters will use it also, or how they'll whine about not getting in on the ground floor. Late Adopters never realize the benefits of new trends. That's just how they're wired.
https://bitspend.net/
You can spend bitcoins anywhere that accepts USD using this site. It's a passthrough for now, yes, but a stepping stone to full on adoption.
bitcoin is exactly the same as all other digital currencies, subject to the same probs, from a network point of view as the USD or any other currency.
EVERYTHING is tied to net now so not going away any time soon. My BTC are on an encrypted drive, in an encrypted database, in an encrypted application and in a password protected machine that is currently turned off, so come and steal it from me :O)
Each bitcoin is worth $100,000 once it replaces US currency..
you will be kicking your self when you dont buy at $500, $1000 etc
You got it..Bitcoin will be well over 1k per coin THIS YEAR, and easily 100k in 5yrs..
People are going to kill there selves in mass for not seeing whats right in front of them and not getting in while its a steal..
you can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink..
I had to do my own research where I really dug in to understand everything about it, when my questions were answered, i got my feet wet, thats when it was in single digits..Best thing I have ever done....
Stupid is as stupid doesn't
Herbalife, bitchez!
As soon as the crazy predictions come out, it is time to look for the exit. No one is going to sell you their house for 2 bitcoins or two tulip bulbs.
Besides:
The US government banned US citizens from trading gold and silver in FOREX accounts. They passed a law to stop US citizens from online gambling. They arrested some guy for making silver rounds and calling them liberty dollars. Even if bitcoin was legit, do you think their jealousy and hatred has a limit that stops at bitcoin?
@Quinvarius
So, Bitcoin isn't legit because it isn't banned? Eh? That's a rather convoluted logic loop you've got going there.
As for valuations, who knows - I suppose it depends on Bernanke stopping his printing $85 billion a month debt-spree.
One thing that really gets me on here is everyone is willing to play the "Buy The Fucking Dip" game in equities, knowing full well it is pumped up by Bernanke and crew - but then the booing and criticism is heaped on bitcoin, which is kicking every market's ass to the corner.
Even if you think it will 'go away' why not BTFBD? (Buy The Fucking Bitcoin Dip)? Scared? Hypocritical? I have no idea.
You can make all the straw man arguments and fake nonsensical pho logic loops you want. Bitcoins are no different than beanie babies, tulip bulbs, or Alf pogs. They are not legit currency or legit money. They are the latest fad with pumped up dreams of glory. Banning them wil not make them legit, as you attempt to imply.
Why would I buy something that is an obvious valuless nothing?
Hey man, they only made like 10,000,000 ALF pogs - them shits are rare!
You do not understand buitcoin(like many people).
Your bitcoins are not in your drive, they are in the blockchain.
And the blockchain is near indestructible (more indestructible than any quantity of gold). it is so, because the blockchain is not in a single place but it is replicated in millions of places.
Wht you really need is your secret key(s) to manage the bitcoin stored at your address(es). This is what you backup dearly and many times over.
.
And you think fait paper bill currency isn't a technologically dependent virtual currency, PC, easily hacked and stolen/transferred at the click of a mouse? Jesus, matey, where the fcuk have been all these years? …. Mars?.
.
The system is cracked and now scores of scores are going to be settled, and it aint gonna be pretty for those at top tables. And that is one thing you can rely on is guaranteed if they don't bring in and use better intelligence than they have been customarily presently using or be currently stuck with supporting because of a lack of in house intelligence.
.
C'est la vie … Get used to the New World Order which is Virtual CHAOS2 …… with Clouds Hosting Advanced Operating Systems Servers for Special Services in Live Operational Virtual Environments/ARGs and AREs in IARPA parlance ….. http://www.iarpa.gov/RFI/rfi_uarehere.html
So the valuein dollars has exploded, but if you want to realize your gains and transfer your Bitcoins back to dollars, it isn't very easy. You might have a little problem with the IRS if you wire in a large sum of money to your bank account.
If you did accept Bitcoins for items, and you sold something around $40 for 1 Bitcoin two weeks ago, have you readjusted your pricing? IfBitcoin was a stable medium of exchange, an item that sold for one Bitcoin three weeks ago, should still sell for one Bitcoin.
Also, that is a pretty good profit considering you traded an item worth $40 for a couple lines of code that now are worth $160.
Looks like a get rich quick scheme to me. The value has shot up far too fast considering the volume. There aren't that many people dropping everything to get in Bitcoin. 400% gains in three weeks? That doesn't set off any alarms?
Just like, my house will double in value every five years.
The only reason why Amazon would take Bitcoin would be Bezos buying a large lot expecting the value to skyrocket on the news.
It is amazing to me that people are trusting Bitcoin. Hey people trusted everything wth a .com after it in the late '90s.
The IRS won't know anything about your Bitcoin biz unless you let them know. What moron TELLS the government about money the govt. doesn't know about?
New IRS High tech tools track your Digital footprint...
http://revolutionradio.org/?p=47605
"The Internal Revenue Service is collecting a lot more than taxes this year–it’s also acquiring a huge volume of personal information on taxpayers’ digital activities, from eBay auctions to Facebook posts and, for the first time ever, credit card and e-payment transaction records, as it expands its search for tax cheats to places it’s never gone before."
Surprise surprise
There are plenty of ways to acquire bitcoins that are out of the eyesight of the Feds.
But the government is all seeing and all knowing. Like santa.
When the Bitcoin phenomena integrates seemlessly with the gambling, online porn and adult services industries, we shall reach the fiat event horizon.
"At first a coder's curio, Bitcoins quickly found a home in the "deep web", the shadier part of the Internet that is largely anonymous and requires some good technical understanding to access. It was used to fuel illicit drug buys and pay for other illegal services on specialist sites."
http://news.ph.msn.com/sci-tech/as-bitcoin-virtual-currency-soars-bubble...
The software is written in such a way that it becomes increasingly difficult to generate new Bitcoins, with the number in circulation designed to eventually top out at 21 million.
http://www.reddit.com/r/GirlsGoneBitcoin/
http://satoshidice.com/
I am a little puzzled by the strong reaction people on here are displaying againt the bitcoin. The way I see it is is no different from investing in a stock. It could double or triple, but it could go down to zero. Why is it so particularly stupid to put A LITTLE MONEY YOU COULD AFFORD TO LOSE in a rapidly appreciating asset class? Invest a little and cash out half if the value doubled. Then it would be all upside from there.
Evolution: Dinosaurs were afraid of the fast little furry mammals too.
Was that their design thou? To become a speculative ETF for currency?
Seems like bitcoins biggest failure will be due to users not abiding by Fight Clubs first few rules.
The guy in the red golf shirt said it best, “People don’t understand their money”. And how could they without an advanced degree in economics and finance? The system is more complicated that the f^%cking tax code. People have a better chance of figuring out how to perform an appendectomy on themselves than their present monetary system.
That’s all part of the strategy too, isn’t it? It forces the average person to settle for hoping and trusting a bunch of banksters and politicians acting primarily in their own interests behind walls and curtains in some distant place who run a financial system designed to abuse, rob, and ultimately fail their customers.
But don’t worry all you Cypriots, Larry Fink is confident you will work your problems out, and in the broader scheme of things he doesn’t think it really matters even if you don’t.
It doesn’t have to be this way. But God (and Goldman) forbid that money could just be a simple fungible medium of exchange and nothing else.
can someone explain to me how a bit coin should have a price that is higher than a one ounce gold coin? or 60 one ounce silver coins?
is this the value of transferrability of bitcoins relative to gold/silver coins, the "safe custody"/settlements system/registration of the bitcoins and the convenience of bitcoin transfer via an internet instruction?
surely there is an exchange that allows the transfer of gold and silver coins that are similarly held in "safe custody"?
it does look like an alternative currency, but what is stopping someone shorting it or selling it forward..is there an options market on bitcoin that lets you sell the extraordinary volatility of the last two months (sell puts or calls, i dont care!)
Because the pricing isn't being manipulated and is responding to tradional mathematic pricing relationships based on quantity of coins vs amount of money backing them in the system. It is not face value price but the relationship of more dollars chasing an almost fixed amount of coins growing at a slow growth rate. The algorithm at least so far holds supply side inflation in check through central bank style manipulation of the amount of coins.
ok, so its a computer game, with known rules and people are treating the compter game currency as real money...like..i dunno ...second life or that farming game..if the "currency" in these games got the same hype, they would be the same as bitcoins?
Currency in essence is trust in the medium being used to store excess wealth. The real money is the people themselves and their production. It is not gold it is not dollars, it is not bitcoin. They are all currencies because of the trust factor first and foremost as valid store of wealth. Once the trust is gone so it's value as currency. I can always use my hands to harvest food to feed myself without needing gold, silver, dollars or bitcoins. I can't eat any of those, I can only use them as store of wealth to trade (purchase food). Currency doesn't produce anything either, people do.
ok..so the monetary base in a bitcoin economy are bitcoins which have a pre-determined (growing to a max of 21 million coins each divisible into 100 million fractions. so you can divide a bit coin into 0.00000001 parts and pay for stuff. (even 160 bucks makes this meaningless and it will remain so until such a time as the bitcoin becomes worth 10 million dollars?
you can store the value in "hard" cash..which although fiat and debaseable is what is in general use today as a means of payment and transmission. you can use gold and silver in the same way and use these in physical form.
there is no cap on the size of a bitcoin transaction..i will watch to see if car dealers for example will take 100 bitcoins for a a $16,000 car (at $160/bitcoin).
i understand that bitcoins are not like open-ended pre-paid phone cards with the price of the call (minutes of air time) varying over time, also bitcoins are not like coupons even though these are transferrable but probably have a limited life.
i still think they are akin to the currency used in a computer game that people want to keep playing to the extent that they will pay for bitcoins with real goods and banknotes.
i wonder if the joker on this thread cashed out his 500,000 or not (post 15)
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1259642&s=500155d70e12326b5e0c6c060ce82bc5&p=40197952#post40197952
Currency is currency. Music is music whether it is analog or digital. Explain to me why that relationship doesn't hold with currency. They are both stores of something and both have value dependent upon things like quantity and trust. What if I told you there is really only one peg needed in which to price everything whether it resides as 1s and 0s or in the analog world and can be equally used to price labor also whether performed by a human or machine. It just becomes a matter of translating value from one to the other. That is ultimate fair exchange rate everyone can agree on (highest degree of trust) pricing above that is determined by the market. The only caveat is trying to define the peg and measure it might still be beyond our grasp with the current science and mathematics.
ok, thanks for your help..
i will stay a "soft cock" and just watch for a few months
No one says to participate, but whether you agree to bitcoin or crypto-currency being money the whole system does have genuine advantages and real tangible value as a solution to potential real world problems some of which are having a destabilizing effect on the very constructs of society like in Cyprus.
I would never tell anyone to throw all their eggs in one basket but sometimes the situation dictates the best solution something these I know best types seem to forget. It is not always what they think is best, law of the jungle ultimately rules the roost a certain degree of humility and pragmatism goes a long way something intellectual arrogance always seems to underestimate.
i agree..i know its rules..and although it may be in growing use by criminals as well as legitimate people, in has an enormous amount of intuitive appeal.
its the "can it be decalred illegal/burgled/manipulated/fraudulently controlled/replaced by a better version" aspects that are scaring me off (and the fact it doesn't pay interest, heh, kidding)
hackers are smart sums of beeches and how would you know that you weren't dealing in counterfeit bitcoins using the usual phishing software thats out there that gives you a shell web page that you think is bitcoin and is in fact some joker in prague, moscow, buenos aires, beijing or jakarta
i cant help but get ot thinking that it follows the same logic that saw the birth of the euro dollar market back in 1963, when JFK imposed a withholding tax on us dollar registered bons, so it can easily compete with replace euro dollars (dollars issued outside the US) on an intellectual basis. the coupons on those bonds allowed corporates to borrow at less than US dollar corporates..
buggerd if i know how to get round the credibility issue. there are too many peple who have been burned too many times by scams, crying "wolf" when there really is one, is where we are today. bitcoins or equivalent may be the answer.
i guess the guy who started it is a multi-billionaire by now, by still holding 10 million of the original issue?
thats the issue with not having the amount of bitcoins reconciled against (anonymous) holders or do they do this with the wallets on the servers?
does that mean the servers are the custodian of the wallets?
I meant the algorithm at least so far holds supply side inflation in check against central bank style manipulation of the amount of coins.
There are approximately 6 billion ounces of gold above ground. There will only ever be 21 million bitcoins. Assuming people valued gold the same as bitcoins that would put 1 BTC at about $450000 USD.
It's an interesting upper bound to keep in mind.
ijunk
There are approximately 6 billion ounces of gold above ground. There will only ever be 21 million bitcoins.
Gosh, how will it ever expand to a global useage?.
By trading in units of 10^-8 BTC.
A bitcoin can be broken down into units as low as .00000001, or what is known as a "satoshi". This is how it can be expanded to global usage. Now if only we could get over the block size limit..
The Fed (or any CB) could come in and drop the value of BitCoin in a matter of seconds , but will probably do it over the course of a few days. I mean they take $10MM of printed fiat and sell it in BitCoin market.
The race to the $5 level would be on again.
GS/JPM/The Fed have been trying to tank the price for a year now. Those pesky bitcoiners keep buying up the cheaper coins and driving the price back up.
If the Money Dogs try to buy up all the coins, the price goes through the roof and we bitcoin holders will start taking their gold from them. If they drive the price down, we'll buy up the coins.
They're fucked. They don't know it yet.
All Out - Methinks that you are leaning way to far over your skis. With respect, you must be too inexperienced, or not having been an institutional currency or FI trader - to understand how if THEY want to do something....they will.
Especially in a market that has what...a $1B mkt cap, maybe ?
@Clowns on Acid
So your message, in a nutshell is "Give up"? How inspiring.
No Tim, that is not what I said - you show a predisposition for arrogance with your illogical, puerile response....and experience will show you in spades how arrogance is repaid in markets.
Please tell me you are not really that dumb? You cannot short something you do not possess. For TPTB to sell Bitcoins they have to buy them first. There are no bitcoin derivatives as of yet, so they only thing TPTB can do to Bitcoins is to buy them and then dump them. Then the public gets even more curious about them during the next bull phase. Can't you see what's happening before your own eyes?
The Bitcoin Channel
There is nothing new under the sun.
> if THEY want to do something....they will.
Not anymore.
You and THEY share a common trait: you can't see that the game has changed for good.
40 switches x 1 line of code = big trouble in little minds' fantasy land (there are dozens of people just on ZH who could write it), makes no difference if it's TPTB, a cabal of CEOs, or a group of hackers that implment it.
The game hasn't changed that much, only the arrogance of the newcomers who never learned from those who came before them has.
hint:
a house divided against itself cannot stand - Lincoln
divide ut regnes - Cesar
> there are dozens of people just on ZH who could write it
Doubtful. Most of ZH seems to have a difficult time installing an operation system.
You just demostrated you know nothing about bitcoin, so please stop making assumptions about it.
And you just demonstrated you that don't know how to think about outside a box, or how to identify a vulnerability outside the convenient github categories fed to you. The reconciliation between block chains only works if the discrepancies are small. Ginormous discrepancies means people are going to get screwed and digital wealth dissolved. Some IRC message saying "Please don't do any bitcoin transactions until we can roll out some some software upgrade in the future" is a reputational death knell... There has already been transaction fork because of a sloppy and unsupervised q/a effort by a bunch of amateurs- against dedicated motivated and funded team of professionals your beloved bitcoin would be reduced to nothing.
To reduce vulnerability assessment to the the raw basics, when everyone is running their mouth about encryption protocals, devote resources elsewhere, when distribution is touted as a strength, identify the circumstances under which it is a weakness.
Try living in the real world.
Of course...hehe. You are expert....with little or no experience....go for it...ya disciple !
TD, will you add this video to your next ZH bitcoin op-ed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fvSYT7vhQY
check out kramer at 4.57!!!
heh.. i bet he wished this hadn't come out