This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

As Confidence In Dollar Wanes, Over A Dozen States Push For Gold As Legal Tender

Tyler Durden's picture





 

In more than a dozen states, legislators are pushing for a movement back to a world where gold is considered money. As Bloomberg reports, lawmakers in Arizona are poised to follow Utah, which authorized bullion for currency in 2011. Similar bills are advancing in Kansas, South Carolina and other states to recognize gold and silver coins as legal tender. "The legislation is about signaling discontent with monetary policy and about what Ben Bernanke is doing," which seems confirmed by the recent shift in Texas to bring its gold back from the New York bank warehouse. The new measures would give "people the option of using money that won’t lose any purchasing power to inflation," one supporter of the bill explained, with another adding, "there is a fear that the government, or Bernanke in particular and the Federal Reserve, is pursuing a policy that will lead to the collapse of the dollar." The U.S. Constitution bars states from coining money and also forbids them from making anything except gold and silver coin tender for paying debts. Advocates say that opens the door for the states to allow bullion as legal tender.

 

Via Bloomberg,

Distrust of the Federal Reserve and concern that U.S. dollars may become worthless are fueling a push in more than a dozen states to recognize gold and silver coins as legal tender.

 

Lawmakers in Arizona are poised to follow Utah, which authorized bullion for currency in 2011. Similar bills are advancing in Kansas, South Carolina and other states.

 

...

 

“The legislation is about signaling discontent with monetary policy and about what Ben Bernanke is doing,” said Gatch, who studies alternative currencies at the Edmond, Oklahoma-based school. “There is a fear that the government, or Bernanke in particular and the Federal Reserve, is pursuing a policy that will lead to the collapse of the dollar. That’s what is behind it.”

 

...

 

In Texas, lawmakers are considering a measure supported by Republican Governor Rick Perry to establish the Texas Bullion Depository to store gold bars valued at about $1 billion and held in a New York bank warehouse. The gold is owned by the University of Texas Investment Management Co., or Utimco, which took delivery of 6,643 bars of the precious metal in 2011 amid concern that demand for it would overwhelm supply.

 

The proposed facility would also accept deposits from the public, and would provide a basis for a payments system in the state in the event of a “systemic dislocation in a national and international financial system,” according to the measure.

 

...

 

“We are seeing a distinct movement back to a world where gold is considered money,” ...

 

The measures give “people the option of using money that won’t lose any purchasing power to inflation,” said Rich Danker, economics director at the American Principles Project. The Washington-based public-policy group supports the steps as well as a return to the gold standard, which pegged the dollar’s value to bullion. President Richard Nixon formally ended the convertibility of U.S. currency to the precious metal in 1971.

 

“People in these states find the idea of having the option to use hard currencies appealing over these policies they have no control over,” Danker said.

 

The U.S. Constitution bars states from coining money and also forbids them from making anything except gold and silver coin tender for paying debts. Advocates say that opens the door for the states to allow bullion as legal tender. The measure being considered in South Carolina would recognize foreign or domestic minted coins as legal tender.

 

...

 

In Utah and some other states, the measures also eliminate state capital gains or other taxes on the coins.

 

...

 

Critics say... “It is simply grandstanding to get people afraid that somehow President Obama’s agenda is going to drive us into hyperinflation and economic collapse,” Farley said. “We have enough real problems to deal with. I don’t see undercutting our entire financial structure as a priority.”

 

...

 

The bill’s sponsor, Senator Chester Crandell, 66 of Heber, said he is convinced the move is the “logical thing for the state of Arizona to do.”

 

“I think you look at some of the things that are happening and the amount of money printed by the Federal Reserve and who has control of that money, and I think anybody would be concerned,” Crandell said. “Gold and silver have been around a long time and people are secure with it and we should give them an opportunity to use it.”

 


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Mon, 04/08/2013 - 09:55 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

In lieu of gold....we'll take ammo.

 

.22LR and .223 are like gold anymore.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 09:54 | Link to Comment Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

If you want freedom, just end property taxes.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:02 | Link to Comment BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

Don't Listen To BEN Shalom ...

GOLD $50K (Eventually) ...

... And Not Printed By Anyone

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:06 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

Re-monetization of gold will ultimately lead to confiscation once again.

Be careful what you ask for..

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:15 | Link to Comment GoldenDragon
GoldenDragon's picture

Molon Labe

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:42 | Link to Comment HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

If gold, silver, and amm all become legal tender, don't think we'll be throwing the PMs at the people coming to confiscate. 

Hell, why is there even an if clause here...you try to confiscate, and we are sending the most base of our metals at you, bitchez.

(By the way, I'm finding .223 again, but it is EXPENSIVE. My LGS wants $75 for 100 rounds of Federal's American Eagle brand. The 22LR standard velocity that they had for a week was $4.95 for a box of 50, daily limit of two. I picked some up for my son's bolt action, not wanting to waste my tactical stuff.)

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:00 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Ask yourself the more likely scenario...

A) A responsible treasury secretary breaks with the Fed and decides to re-issue gold and silver certificates.

B) The world just forgets the treasury, the USD, the Fed, all of their laws and moves on to decentralized crypto currencies.

 

Think hard now....

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:21 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Ask yourself the more likely scenario...

~~~

A) On a long enough timeline the survival rate for fiat drops to zero

B) On a long enough timeline, the survival rate of 'crypto currency' drops to zero

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:23 | Link to Comment Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

 

 

Ol' fonestar tries too hard. He's like a salesman with a single lead - he just bangs on it all day long.

Smells funny.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:42 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

for all you dual stackers...

http://www.coinabul.com/

 

 just bought a maple and a panda from them...  cash in some bits for gold!

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:57 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Sweet!  Take BTC profits in gold & silver!

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 15:53 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

(+1) See?... Now THAT I can agree with... Bitcoiners ~ you made a nice trade... Monetize [or should I say 'PHYSICALIZE'] your profits when you see the opportunity...

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 15:17 | Link to Comment yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

So funny that people here think they know what "gold" is.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 14:05 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Is it not time, as humans that we issue a formal surrender to the machines? 

The ability to create currency should forever be taken away from humans.  Bankers are humans.  The guy who you think is really good and honest now is human.  Your fanatasies about a new gold certificate would be managed by humans.  Humans are greedy and fallible.

It is time to give our trust over to algorithms and machines and a one world currency.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 15:22 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Sarcasm or stupidity?

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 15:52 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

No sarcasm.  Man needs to be able to create fire, that is dangerous enough but he must survive and stay warm.  Give man the ability to create money and watch the world burn.

A world with more equal wealth distribution is a more peaceful world.  Many investors (whether invested in the Dow or silver bars) still believe in American exceptionalism and that's the real reason they hate bitcoin.  A bitcoin in Thailand or Ghana is no more exceptional than a bitcoin in the United States.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 15:26 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Sarcasm/irony!  If I'm inferring correctly from his past postings.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:36 | Link to Comment NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Reality is not subjugated to just the two alternatives that you alone can think of. Which is why predicting the future doesn't work very well for anyone, and why it's best to just look at historical significance for likely outcomes.

 

Bitcoin is fine and dandy, if you don't mind dealing with potential counter-party risk and the fact that it's still a fake representation of a hard asset.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 16:15 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

So if an object does not have enough mass for you to be able to get a tactile sense from it, it is "fake"?  The internet and oxygen are also "fake"then.

Tue, 04/09/2013 - 22:55 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

What foolish nonsense. I get plenty of mass & utility from oxygen – I don’t use 1 atom at a time – and I get plenty of information exchange from the internet including delivery of tangibles like silver using an order.

I think you misunderstand very deliberately.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 18:38 | Link to Comment hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

Bitcoin has no counter party risk, actually.

Tue, 04/09/2013 - 22:57 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Bitcoin is ALL counter-party risk, actually.

I can only be assured if I send btc to transmit that they are gone. I  have no other assurances. No idea if I will receive in return anything, be it fiat or goods. Ever.

Tue, 04/09/2013 - 22:55 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

No sarc, A). B) is a dead-end road as the crypto-currency is locked to fiat exchanges being controlled by scammers & central bank agents now.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:08 | Link to Comment zapdude
zapdude's picture

I found a local guy doing reloads, 1,000 rounds for .223 @ $0.66 after tax, once-used brass and lead core FMJ. 

That's at least $200 cheaper than quality rounds you can find online (gunbot, ammo crawler, etc) -- plus no delivery and no tracking.

Needless to say I placed my order!

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:14 | Link to Comment Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

i'm sure you've heard it before but do it yerself, you might learn something and save even more money.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:32 | Link to Comment markar
markar's picture

You mean like bank deposits in FRN?

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:38 | Link to Comment MFLTucson
MFLTucson's picture

You will lose your 401K before we will lose our gold.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:02 | Link to Comment Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

"If you don't hold it, you don't own it," is more important then ever. Bankers hate PMs b/c the banks do not hold them....you do (or at least the ones not lost in a boating axcident).

 

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:12 | Link to Comment Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

Possession is nine tenths of the law and 100% of survival.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:37 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

There would have to be a 401k for them to take.

We self-employed do not tend to participate in those corporate slave carrot plans.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:46 | Link to Comment rogeliokh
rogeliokh's picture

GOLD screwed by Central Banksters. $10 Gone again since Friday close.

They'll not stop until they finally break that $1520 barrier. I'm sick of watching

this bullshit everyday.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:07 | Link to Comment RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

WONDERFUL.   When it gets down to $1500, I'll pick up 6 more ounces !

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:16 | Link to Comment N. B. Forrest
N. B. Forrest's picture

I'm not sick of watching.  I'm quite happy.  That means I get more gold and silver every time I go to purchase more. 

When I go to the grocery store, I'm always happy to see the products I want on sale  Why shouldn't I be happy to see the Fed manipulating the prices down to below replacement.  In the grocery store language that is called a "loss leader".

Time to keep buying with two hands.  All the money I used to stick in my retirement accounts is now going into Precious Metals. 

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 14:52 | Link to Comment daveO
daveO's picture

The smaller budget deficit has a lot to with it. Dropping $400-500 Billion this year, if you believe the news. This is just setting us up for the next leg up. A neccessary pullback. Below $1500, at least.  

Tue, 04/09/2013 - 23:02 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

not even possible - http://flic.kr/p/dvDHf2 is a lot more like what you should expect.

Tue, 04/09/2013 - 02:35 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Change your point-of-view.  Consider this:  Au/Ag/Pt/Pd/Rh are wealth insurance, and watch the price of Au/Ag only to determine when TSHTF.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:52 | Link to Comment GubbermintWorker
GubbermintWorker's picture

Confiscation was hardly a huge success by the Gov't last time and will likely fail as much or more.

 

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:33 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The last time around the US BANKS actually held gold which could be confiscated.  Where is the physical gold now?  I don't think Barry is going to much luck with London, Hong Kong, or Zurich, he might have better luck with JPM (depending on what he offers Jamie in return).

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:40 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

Yep.  To GubbermintWorker, it was enough of a success that Roosevelt was able to devalue the dollar 75%.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 19:23 | Link to Comment neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

Exactly right ,, he didn't actually have to gather it up ,, he just had to make ownership illegal so he could alter the official exchange rate.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:16 | Link to Comment Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

Barry will confiscate tungsten if he can't find the gold...

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:28 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

The last time around much of the gold was sent to depositories in Canada and Europe.  There were lots of double eagles available for sale in banks in Switzerland and Luxembourg at around $35/oz.  I was always afraid to buy any and take them back home.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:51 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

 

Confiscation was hardly a huge success by the Gov't last time and will likely fail as much or more.

PLEASE do not use the dishonest and disingenuous word "confiscation" in the context of Roosevelt's anti-gold policies of the 1930s.  It was an illegalization of privately-held gold (above a limit of $100 face value in coins), but definitely NOT a 'confiscation".  No federal agents went door-to-door searching homes for privately held gold, and in only one or two highly unusual cases was ANY privately held gold actually seized.

This continued (mis)use of the word "confiscation" in place of what actually happened with gold in the 1930s --- illegalization --- implicitly puts more power (if not outright omnipotence) into the hands of the federal government than they actually had, or have today.  And be aware that even in the law-abiding (read: naive) 1930s, the vast majority (>75%) of privately held US gold coins were never turned in to the federal government.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:04 | Link to Comment Anasteus
Anasteus's picture

Yes, you're right, and the first whose gold will be confiscated will be that of the Rothschilds.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:58 | Link to Comment fourchan
fourchan's picture

lol yeah right.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 14:15 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Why would they confiscate my legal tender junk dimes, quarters, and halves? Doubtful they could even tell the difference.

Tue, 04/09/2013 - 22:55 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

You nailed it. Why would anyone sensible send in their gold for taxes?! Send in useless fiat and keep the gold. FOR THAT MATTER if the coin’s price is $1650 and the face value on it is $50 it will count only for $50 for your tax bill! In Utah that’s the law that I know of & I don’t think the others will deviate from this. Unmarked bars are not minted coins and are NOT considered legal currency alongside gold coins! VERY important to know. This is flat out confiscation if you’re fooled.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:12 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

And so what if these law makers get their way and have a gold standard if the rest of the world has moved onto a bit standard? 

Tue, 04/09/2013 - 02:38 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Save me some unicorn-skittles whan that day comes...

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:06 | Link to Comment Anasteus
Anasteus's picture

Don't Listen To BEN Shalom

Ben or Shalom?..

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:02 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

just end property taxes.

That would be nice, but so long as you have a system that can control everyone at once, they'll always find new ways to screw you.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:07 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

End property taxes?  End the income tax?  End the sales tax?  How will governments function? 

Oh wait, they won't!  And we will be living under anarchy rule.  Great.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:08 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

Anarchy > Krugmanism

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:13 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

Exactly Paul. The fact that many ZHers don't even understand the difference between taxation and theft tells you all you need to know about the ignorance on this site.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:16 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

It is too bad so many here understand that more needs to be done, but fail to recognize the proper solutions we must use.

If we ended taxes, or went back to the gold standard, then there would be chaos, and the only people who want chaos are sadists and masochists.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:21 | Link to Comment Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

but your ilk trying to control everyone and everything isn't?  Think you need to look up the defintions of Sadism & a Masochistic Personality, Doc.  It might explain why you enjoy sticking fire crackers up you cat's assses?

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:27 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Socialism is not for the socialists......it's just for you.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:15 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

We live in anarchy now, Paul Krugman.

 

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:25 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

No, no we don't.  We live in a democracy.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:42 | Link to Comment Five8Charlie
Five8Charlie's picture

The United States is a Republic, not a Democracy (thank god).

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 14:34 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

The United States was a republic that tried to become a democracy and ended up as a Kleptocracy.

Thank you Dr. Krugman.

Tue, 04/09/2013 - 23:00 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

A REPUBLIC like Rome, to meet the same burning end? What rubbish you people saying “thank god for a republic” both that ‘god’ and a ‘republic’ are a mark of damnation. Same for you Meat Hammer, you ought to be smarter.

A republic is an empire of corruption where damnation is codified into law & choice is erased, slavery is the norm & government execution of citizens in the streets will be the top priority.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:11 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Fallacies meant for the illiterate or non-critical thinker do not help your argument, Paul Krugman, in fact they hurt your arguments infinitely more than ad hominem.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:36 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

We live in a democracy.

 

That's about sums up your idiocy.  We live in a republic.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 15:34 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Krugman: "No, no we don't.  We live in a sham democracy."  There, fixed it for you.

Actually, we live in the geriatric End-Game of every fiat currency in history.  The proverbial Bread & Circus (Welfare & TV) are only Prozac for the masses -- while the rich, powerful and informed prep for the Big Reset.  It won't do to panic the sheep while they're being sheared and fleeced.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 20:45 | Link to Comment Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Dr Paul Krugman


Vote up!

2 Vote down!

-27

No, no we don't.  We live in a democracy.

You are delusional.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:27 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Chaos means different things to different people...

~~~

'Chaos' to Krugman means that nobody pays him or gives him medals to spout statist bullshit...

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 15:06 | Link to Comment Skin666
Skin666's picture

Try psychopathy

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:37 | Link to Comment eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE???  You and your sociopathic bankster buddies have done way too much already.  100 consecutive years of counterfeiting wealth for a few at the expense of the many has taken it's toll, as you can see.  We don't need any more of it.  WE NEED IT TO END!

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:43 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Ad hominen does not help an arguement, it hurts it.

The standard of living has increased greatly for the majority in America over the last 100 years thanks to the economic system that has been put in place.

What we need to end is selfish acts while people need help.  We need to serve the greater good.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:07 | Link to Comment angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

Snake oil peddlers passing as economic gurus. Phd, Nobel prize, but no common sense (go figure !)

Another sad sign of our times...

 

When commies were executing their enemies (real or imaginary) with a bullet in the back of their had, it was also claimed to be "for the greater good".

Maybe failed economists should all go in front of such a "people's tribunal".

It would give them an extra incentive to use their brains, instead of babbling nonsese ad nauseam, and it would also be entertaining for the masses.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:30 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

What we need to end is selfish acts while people need help.  We need to serve the greater good.

~~~

How about we start the process by you donating all your 'guru' fees to the homeless & ladeling out soup in a homeless shelter...

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:36 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

I happily pay my taxes.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:24 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Dr Crugmann,

 

Who owns the Federal Reserve and why are you not calling for a full audit of this criminal organization?

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:35 | Link to Comment mydogisprettier...
mydogisprettierthanyou's picture

How many FRNs do you have in overseas shelters?

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:07 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Nothing wrong with overseas tax shelters,a s long as you play by the rules.  The strategic intent of having one is (1) Avoid downright freezing/confiscation by a fascist IRS, w/o due legal process, and (2) lower tax rates.  If multi-nationals can do it w/o the social stigma, so can and should regualr 'people'.  The other people of "corporations are people too", per the SCOTUS.

Having it overseas in not sin, is not a crime.  Not declaring income from these assets may not be a 'sin', but is a US crime.  No matter who you are.  Even for Dr. PK -- whether I/you/we like him or not is 100% irrelevant.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:06 | Link to Comment rogeliokh
rogeliokh's picture

"The standard of living has increased greatly for the majority in America over the last 100 years thanks to the economic system that has been put in place."

Dude are you for real? Half of the US population sitting on Food Stamps.

And about same cannot afford to pay for Medical Insurance. America became

Socialist Welfare State. United States Socialist Republic. Sounds familiar?

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:50 | Link to Comment KickIce
KickIce's picture

All based on a Ponzi scheme.  Like all illusions they come to an end.

Outside of government jobs, how have we done the last 4 years?

I'd take chaos any day of the week if meant at the end we could rid ourselves of these bankers and their cheerleading whores.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:52 | Link to Comment Five8Charlie
Five8Charlie's picture

"The standard of living has increased greatly for the majority in America over the last 100 years thanks to the economic system that has been put in place."

I could also increase my standard of living by running up debt on someone else's credit card.  Same thing.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:02 | Link to Comment goldnguns
goldnguns's picture

Please provide documentation of your "serving the greater good" by providing us a statement showing the voluntary contribution of 95% of your total income to that "greater good THIEF in CHIEF" and all his minions.

 

Walk your talk there big boy.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:24 | Link to Comment firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Creating an entire ecosystem on unsustainable means is not increasing the living standard, its only going to cause more pain in the end.  I heard some study done that said the planet can only sustain 3B people through organic means.  We've had to resort to poisoning ourselves with pesticides to maintain the current population, while at the same time decimating the bee population.  When the bees are gone, only then will you realize the stupidity of what you believe is an increased standard of living.

Tue, 04/09/2013 - 23:06 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Indeed: Einstein estimated that once bees are gone humans have at most 4 years before complete extinction.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:34 | Link to Comment mydogisprettier...
mydogisprettierthanyou's picture

Of all the societies that have used a fiat money system, which one did not fail?

Tue, 04/09/2013 - 23:04 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

oddly England – tally sticks.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:19 | Link to Comment eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

If by ending "selfish acts" you mean selfish acts like the Federal Reserve Act, I'm all for it.  We agree on something if that's what you mean.  But I doubt it.  Sociopaths like yourself want to play puppetmaster and proclaim you're doing us a favor when you're actually screwing us royally.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:20 | Link to Comment Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

"Selfish acts" were the primary driver of the standard of living increase over the last 100 years.    The ability to succeed beyond what one can imagine is the driver of prosperity.  Continue chipping away at the ability to succeed (with tax and govt costs of doing business) and everybody suffers.  The greater good is served best by the most amount of freedom short of absolute anarchy. But to your dismay, it does not result in equal outcomes. 

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 14:35 | Link to Comment auric1234
auric1234's picture

When I want to help others, I give away actual wealth to those who need it.

I don't trade in FIAT with anyone. Giving FIAT to the poor is like giving heroin to a junkie.

 

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 14:38 | Link to Comment auric1234
auric1234's picture

When I want to help others, I give away actual wealth to those who need it.

I don't trade in FIAT with anyone. Giving FIAT to the poor is like giving heroin to a junkie.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 15:48 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Close, but no cigar!   The Std. of living has not improved because of anything that the Fed or the Gov has done.  If anything, it's held back the full potential.

What HAS improved the Std. if living is: 

   1. Cheap Energy (oil, gas, electricity),

   2. Cheap Resources and

   3. Cheap Labor due to technology and off-shoring. 

Cheap money did NOT increase the GDP.  Rather, its true purpose was to  inflate the "Asset" balloon beyond its natural GDP limit, and allow for a nice transfer of wealth upwards.  "Rowing the economy" is what JPM and Rothschild called it, I believe.  Put another way:  These cheap/fake tertiary assets in our economy are like the one-sided sale of Long Island, the exchange of cheap & fake "assets" for valuable real assets.  The Indians (sellers) got cheap jewelry (cheap/fake assets) for land (primary/real assets)

All else is BS & snake oil for the ignorant, gullible and weak-minded.  Next argument/hypothesis you'd like to test for your blog site?

Tue, 04/09/2013 - 22:59 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I see decreases. Less food, less home to live in, less land to live on, less income, less savings, less credit available and so little to retire on many will not retire at all, will die of old age in great pain while still working. Show me any concrete living conditions that improved. ANY.

 

As noted in http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-08/confidence-dollar-wanes-over-dozen-states-push-gold-legal-tender#comment-3421973 and many articles a record number of Americans are on foodstamps & globally a record number of people are in poverty due to massive explosion of population & declining increases in yields for crops. How is this an improvement?

And the greater good? The first step of the greater good is PERSONAL gain.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:59 | Link to Comment SWIFT 760
SWIFT 760's picture

You're stupid as MDB...this whole jew run ponzi scam is DEBT BASED. There is no way to pay the principle and interest. Its mathmatically impossible. Even if the US was still a beacon of production and industry [which its not] the debt could not be repaid. The gvt will never stop borrowing from a private banking cartel. It cant.

Not one godamn politician in Wash DC knows that fiat currency is unconstitutional. Article 1, Section 10.

A possible answer to slow the decay and rot of US economy is to have the US treasury be a competitor to the joobux. If not, than let the states operate with an alternative to joobux.

The best economic times the US ever experienced was when the US treasury operated the US commerce.

Spare us your bullshit sensitivities regarding the poor and hungry. You are profoundly pathetic.  

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:05 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Jews don't run Wall Street, WASPs do.  This has always been true.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:08 | Link to Comment SWIFT 760
SWIFT 760's picture

I referenced the federal reserve, not wall st. We all know its a sadistic group of zio jews comprising the federal reserve.

One lies and the other swears to it.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:22 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Wow.  We get two jewish men as Chairman and now it is a "sadistic group of zio jews".  How many Federal Reserve Chairmen have been jewish?  Hint, less than have been not.

And isn't it spoken of widely here and other doomer sites that Wall Street is the board of the Federal Reserve?  So if Wall Street is and always have been WASPs, and Wall Street CEOs make up the board, then what can we conclude?

And this is why the conspiracy theories run in circles - none of it makes sense.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:51 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

From http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthre...onal-Influence

~~~

US Federal Reserve Chairmen

Charles S. Hamlin (August 10, 1914 — August 10, 1916) - Jew
William P. G. Harding (August 10, 1916 – August 9, 1922)- Jew
Daniel R. Crissinger (May 1, 1923 – September 15, 1927)- Jewish descent
Roy A. Young (October 4, 1927 – August 31, 1930)- Jew
Eugene I. Meyer (September 16, 1930 – May 10, 1933) - Jew
Eugene R. Black (May 19, 1933 – August 15, 1934)- Jew
Marriner S. Eccles¹ (November 15, 1934 – February 3, 1948)
Thomas B. McCabe (April 15, 1948 – April 2, 1951)
William McChesney Martin, Jr. (April 2, 1951 – February 1, 1970)
Arthur F. Burns (February 1, 1970 – January 31, 1978)-Jew
G. William Miller (March 8, 1978 – August 6, 1979)
Paul A. Volcker (August 6, 1979 – August 11, 1987) -Jewish descent
Alan Greenspan² (August 11, 1987 – January 31, 2006)- Jew
Ben S. Bernanke (February 1, 2006 – )- Jew

~~~

Note: the bolded ones are of special interest because their tenure ties together with things like stock market crashes, gold confiscation, Bretton Woods, & major financial upheavals & resets...

That's 71.4% ~ from a pool that represents 1% of the worlds population...

As I state ad nauseum... It's an almost impossible statistical/mathematical abberation...

& this is not even to mention that the major shareholders [who are the REAL players] of the private central bank are mostly, jewish banking families...

Once again, If anybody wants to junk me or call me a 'racist', or 'anti-semite' for pointing out facts, then be my guest... There are plenty of ECONOMIC HOLOCAUST DENIERS out there...

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:00 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

My god! 

Paul Volcker is not jewish.

Miller was not jewish.

And labeling the first six Chairmen "jewish" just because it is hard to find what religion they have is ignorant.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:30 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

There are two distinctions... One of them says 'descent'... Anecdotally, Volcker belings in that category...

I did not identify Miller, who's tenure was short, as a jew...

~~~

As for the first six... It's not really that hard to determine... Meyer was probably the most important because his tenure was during the same period of gold confiscation...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Meyer

The rest, you can look up on your own...

~~~

Here's a basic link on Volcker [including working for J. Rothschild after leaving the Fed]... You can glean what you wish... As always ~ don't ever let logic interfere with your reasoning capabilities... After all ~ there's ALWAYS the possibility that Kate Upton will ring my doorbell at any moment & want to give me a blow job... So as long as I always stay focused on that, my life will be great...

http://useconomy.about.com/od/people/p/Paul_Volcker.htm

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:48 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Once again, in your conspiracy theory, doesn't Wall Street run the Federal Reserve?  Or is the Federal Reserve acting impartially for the benefit of the government?

If it is true that Wall Street controls the Federal Reserve, like most here would suggest, then it is a WASP entity, because Wall Street is and has always been such.

And if not, and the Fed is acting on behalf of the government - which is the case - then does it matter if the Chairmen are jews?  Muslims?  Aliens?

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 14:12 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Where did I say anything about 'conspiracy theory'?... All I did was offer a fact based rebuttal of your comment that only 2 Fed Charmen were jews...

~~~

The rest, you've implied...

Here's the math... Jews represent 1% of the world's population... I'll call it 2% in so called 'developed western society' just to throw you a bone...

71% of ALL Fed Chairpersons have been either jewish [or are of jewish descent]... There have been 14 in all... So the 'odds' on 10 of them being jews is...

http://easycalculation.com/statistics/probability.php

Well ~ I don't want to deprive you of all the fun... Figure it out for yourself... I'll give you a hint... It's in the same ballpark of getting dealt 3 straight ROYAL FLUSHES [on the deal], of a 5 card poker game...

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 14:02 | Link to Comment jayman21
jayman21's picture

Jew, WASP?  How about self centered parasites who have not produced a god dam thing including yourself Dr. Paul Krugman and all of your crony friends in DC.  Once you realize it is not a jew/wasp/other thing, but rather a control issue, you can have a decent discussion.  I know what is best for me.  I have no idea what is best for someone else.  Why do you think you know best for someone else.  This causes wars, but you think that is a good idea as well.  No harm in having extra broken windows to repair and route good capital into more window producers that should have been invested in the next creative destructive companies.

 

Start with identifying a pattern, then add logic, then argue about it.

 

Pattern: Let the market clean this crap out of its system.

Logic: Why do you think you can control the business cycle?

Rhetoric: Do you really think you can control sulfur released by volcanoes?  They have more to do changing weather patterns and long-term wealth than any short-term money printing exercise.

 

If you really are this man, I would love to hear a real answer to the question posed in Spain.  Why what you propose is not stealing?  You did not answer the question.  You asked another question.  Do you want 20% unemployment?

 

You are a quack.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 14:58 | Link to Comment Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

Dr. Krugman (real or mimiced, not sure):

re: you WASP argument. I don't think it means much. Keep in mind that Chrisitan Princes typically borrowed from a cadre of jewish bankers. This is a historical fact, and if we say that Wall Street is a "prince" and is WASP, then I guess they should have jewish bankers, too. I realize the historical context of this relationship in the past (Church directive against usury, leaving jews free to lend), but it fits the pattern. Even as things change, historical relations remain, though often modified. Today, certainly not all bankers are jewish, but due to historical trends, many more are relative to their representation in the general population, and I suspect they could still dominate the field.

 

 

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:52 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Stop saying things like that... I'm not sure I could bring myself to upvote anyone with the name Krugman, and I have no desire to find out.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:53 | Link to Comment wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Uh... methinks the dumbshit actually has orgasms on all the downvotes he gets.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:05 | Link to Comment StandardDeviant
StandardDeviant's picture

Oh, go for it.  I'd be very, very surprised if that's the real Paul Krugman.

Even if it is, vote for/against the argument, not the man.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:22 | Link to Comment Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

Yeah that Lloyd Blankfein....such a prototypical WASP.  /sarc

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:26 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Instead of pointing out the one man who is jewish, why don't you count him against the men who are not.  Oh, because then you would show your weak hand and lose the arguement.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:58 | Link to Comment Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

"Jews don't run Wall Street, WASPs do.  This has always been true."

Sorry dude. YOUR'E the one who said WASPS are the ones who run Wall Street. All I did was come up with one name off the top of my head (although I'm quite sure further digging would yield more) that discounts your assertion. The weak hand here was played by you making a sweeping generalization which you're now trying to parlay into an argument about numbers or ratios.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:04 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Which banks failed in 2008?  Bear and Lehman, the two "jew" banks.  I'm not sure how jews run Wall Street when the WASP banks would not lend to them.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:25 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Dr Krigmann,

 

If we are so rich, how come we have so much debt?

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:26 | Link to Comment eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

Jews, WASPS, old white men.  What difference does it make what ethnic group controls the FEDGOV when what really matters is the assholes are sociopaths.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:00 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Swift 760 screwed up by bringing the race/religion stuff up. You comment on that rather than commenting on what was important about the post. Let me draw your attention to these points:

"There is no way to pay the principle and interest. Its mathmatically impossible. Even if the US was still a beacon of production and industry [which its not] the debt could not be repaid. The gvt will never stop borrowing from a private banking cartel. It cant."

Interest makes it so that you MUST increase the money supply. Dollars will be diluted in buying power. The only other way to do it is to keep growing the economy and that is not possible to do infinitely. I have asked you about this point before myself and you don't answer it, because you can't.

"Not one godamn politician in Wash DC knows that fiat currency is unconstitutional. Article 1, Section 10."

What do you say to that?

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:23 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

First, the Constitution has been amended.  Second, there are plenty of U.S. mints that mint coins.  Third, this section is refering to the States, per the end of the section refering to States rights.

Do you even know the history of currency in the U.S.?  Gold and silver that was minted in Mexico circulated and passed as currency in the Old West.

And if you want to trade the grocery store food for metal, by all means, try; and good luck.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:32 | Link to Comment firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

They accept metals, look at any old woman trying to pay for her food on the decimated fixed income she is on that would be enough for her to live on if the Federal Reserve would stop only caring about bankers bonuses and came down from their class castle and stop at the grocery store, digging through her change purse.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:51 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

To note, the article and section refered to above would nullify what Zero Hedge wrote above - States are not allowed to have competing currencies.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:20 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Other than gold and silver. Any fiat pushed by a state would be unconstitutional. The reason this was put into the Constitution was because of fiat failures pre-1776.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:26 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I will repeat beacuse you avoided this one yet again:

"There is no way to pay the principle and interest. Its mathmatically impossible. Even if the US was still a beacon of production and industry [which its not] the debt could not be repaid. The gvt will never stop borrowing from a private banking cartel. It cant."

Interest makes it so that you MUST increase the money supply. Dollars will be diluted in buying power. The only other way to do it is to keep growing the economy and that is not possible to do infinitely. I have asked you about this point before myself and you don't answer it, because you can't.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO PAY BACK THE DEBT. I have looked at other posts on this thread that ask you about variations of this question. You will always go for something else in the post or ignore it. You can't answer this. Game over. You lose. You will always lose in a fractional reserve banking system. 

 

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:36 | Link to Comment SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

Good show your pointing out the troll's incapacity to address the real issues of context.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 16:31 | Link to Comment Acidtest Dummy
Acidtest Dummy's picture

One weapon trolls have no defense against is logic.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 22:30 | Link to Comment SWIFT 760
SWIFT 760's picture

MsC - Are we saying the same thing? It appears we agree the devaluing of USD is a direct result of fed massive and absurd stimulus. The US gvt must stop borrowing from a private banking cartel. US gvt needs to ciculate its own money from treasury just as Kennedy attempted. 3 weeks later he was murdered by zionist cabal. What was Begen doing in Dallas the day JFK was murdered? Im digressing. 

If you want to see a successful story of bankers in jail, repudiated debt and starting over look to Iceland. Grass shoots everywhere, painful yes however this is the way to a true recovery. Note no jews running the books in Iceland. 

Perhaps Rand Paul knows fiat currency is unconstitutional and an act of treason. 

The point being as related to article,  states have the right to use gold and silver as daily currencies. The movement back to gold and silver is a sound response to dollar devaluation amongst other volitle issues. Also, the movement back to gold and silver is Patriotic. True Patriots support the US by abiding the US Constitution, the supreme law of the land. Anything less is treason. 

If you support krugman, the fed, bernanke, obama, etc...you are a traitor. 

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:22 | Link to Comment Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

I don't give a rat's fanny if the people at the Fed and running Wall Street are Reformed Druids or worship a rock on a stump in their backyards. Look to their actions! Religion in this context is a "straw man" argument.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:27 | Link to Comment Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

Monday - dyslexic fingers...

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:53 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

As long as the Jewish ruling families have the Federal Reserve Bank, any extensive criticism of Zionists will not take place. With the ability to print money out of thin air, the punishing power behind this free largesse in the hands of a few is too great.

In brief, Eustace Mullins, in possession of “the original organization certificates of the twelve Federal Reserve Banks, giving the ownership of shares by the national banks in each district,” broke the mystery about who actually owns the stock of the Federal Reserve Banks.

“The shareholders of these banks, which own the stock of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York (which sets the interest rates and directs open market operations, thus controlling the daily supply and price of money whose stockholders are the real directors of the entire system), are the people who have controlled our political and economic destinies since 1914.

“They are the Rothschilds, of Europe, Lazard Freres (Eugene Meyer), Kuhn Loeb Company, Warburg Company, Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs, the Rockefeller family, and the J.P. Morgan interests (Rothschild).” --  Eustace Mullins, The Secrets of the Federal Reserve, p. 34. Copyright 1983

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:02 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

There is no proof to your statement.  This is just a conspiracy. 

Writing "(Rothschild)" behind a name does not make it so.  The Morgan family as well as the Rockefellers are known WASPs; and which is the largest bank in the world?

You have also left out the fact that most industrialists, whose families are the major shareholders of said banks, are WASPs.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:15 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Everybody know that JP Morgan was sucking rothschids cock............Come on Paul

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 14:00 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

I know, I know, Paul.  Facts should never be allowed to prejudice a man’s view of reality. Anyway, who cares about the fact that Morgan served as a Rothschild agent and went to great length to appear totally American?

What does it matter that G. Edward Griffin explains in his book, The Creature From Jekyll Island, that J.P. Morgan’s roots actually are an extension of the Rothschild empire, and that from every indication this City of London control center, the Rothschild empire, still operates?

Or that Griffin wrote that “a major portion of the wealth and power of the Morgan firm was, and always had been, merely the wealth and power of the Rothschilds who had raised it up in the beginning and who sustained it throughout its entire existence”?

Why clutter up reality with the fact that  Morgan’s London-based firm was saved from financial ruin in 1857 by the Bank of England “over which the Rothschilds held great influence.”

And who cares that Roni Sofer in November of 2008 in an “Israel Business” article on Ynetnews.com: Israel at Your Fingertips – entitled “Obama mulls naming Jewish economist secretary of treasury” – wrote:

“Former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker is on the shortlist for the US secretary of the treasury position in the Obama administration, Ynet has learned…?  And went on to say...

"Volcker, who chaired the Federal Reserve for eight years, was appointed head of the committee which probed the liability of Swiss banks to holocaust victims, in 1995. The committee's effort yielded $1.5 billion in restitutions to Holocaust survivors.

"While spearheaded by Volcker, the committee met once a month, usually in Zurich. The committee was made up of five Swiss members, representing the banks, and five Jewish members - Avraham Burg, Ron Lauder, Israel Singer, Dr. Reuven Bracha and Attorney Zvi Barak.

"'There is no doubt that a big part of the restitution was achieved due to Volcker's involvement,' said Attorney Barak. 'To this day, there is a restitution fund that's based in New York and is distributing these funds to the survivors and their heirs.

 "’The five years Volcker spent working with an Israeli team have made him well versed in Israeli matters. Should he be named secretary of the treasury or head of the Financial Council, Israel will have a friend there,’ he added. …

“Born to a Jewish family in New Jersey in 1927, Volcker attended Princeton University, Harvard and the London School of Economics. In January of 2008, he endorsed Barack Obama's presidency bid and was his closest financial adviser.”

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3619625,00.html

Why reveal the "facts" about the Fed, and expose the people to the most blatant scam of all history? Keep up the good work, Paul. Axe the facts. Somebody's got to do it.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 14:11 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

That's kind of funny, when I had last acess to and authority over a US licensed bank's internal balance sheet I distinctly recall a line item for FRBxx equity as well as Maiden Lane - and this was over a dozen years ago, long before GS even had a banking license and Lehman was denied one, or the banking system almost melted down and people started to realize what Maiden Lane was (there was another line on the income statement and one on the statement of cash flows, but we are talking about ownership).  

"Control" is rabbit hole for fools, but "Influence" is more complex, because you have to look at the institutional shareholders of the individual banks, and there are names that pop up with obnoxious frequency, but I see none of them in your post. 

Wanna-be Krugman is actually closer than not on the WASP thing, but he misses the mark when focusing on individual people behind individual desks, as opposed to their collective assembly outside over lunch and the cocktail hour behind the very thick walls of the WASP social clubs in NYC (and DC, SF, and Chicago), but their membership was never exclusively WASP- and to this day- if you don't have influence, you aren't welcome, even if you are a WASP.   

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 12:34 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

A double shot of MDB and Dr Paul K?

Awesome. Great way to start the week.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:10 | Link to Comment resurger
resurger's picture

I love your thought's.

I see why god has not chosen you...

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 14:58 | Link to Comment daveO
daveO's picture

The piggies' trough would run dry! Count me an abattoir.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 15:55 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Dr. K: "If we ended taxes, or went back to the gold standard, then there would be chaos..."

I'm disappointed in you competence, Dr. K.  "Chaos" is only 1 of 4 possible outcomes.  I suggest you (a) bone up on Complexity Theory and (b) read Jim Rickard's blogs. 

If you don't know of the other 3 possible  outcomes -- of which a gold standard is on option -- then we should question your competence.  If you won't admit them, we need to question your agenda.

Tue, 04/09/2013 - 22:53 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

What kind of chaos? Please, explain in detail. All I can see is people keeping more of what they work for & no one being able to live free off the backs of middle-class slaves.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:16 | Link to Comment Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

taxation is theft.  Only difference is that gov't sticks its gun in your face as opposed to an individual.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:30 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

See? I rest my case.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 16:04 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Not quite.  Ideally, taxation involves the consent of an informed group paying taxes for purposes and amounts agreed to.  No nation state can survive without it.

Theft via taxation occurs only when the taxation is 'excessive', i.e. it has gone beyond We The People's consent in its Scope (purpose) and/or beyond its Amount.

Our "theft" via taxation (direct taxation, or indirect via money printing), is that the Gov is no longer following the mandate of We The People, but is spending beyond its Scope and Amount.  It has morphed into an insatiable beast, that We The People must deal with.  Sooner or later.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:20 | Link to Comment Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

Let me guess the difference: The one is done in the name of a silent majority, the other is done in your own name?

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:22 | Link to Comment caimen garou
caimen garou's picture

another one that was born out of the ass of bb

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 13:33 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

The fact that many ZHers don't even understand the difference between taxation and theft tells you all you need to know about the ignorance on this site.

 

Yet you keep coming back...that says a lot about how right we really are.  You won't see me going to the comment section of a NYT Krugman article to tell those idiots how wrong they are.  Knowing they are wrong and laughing at them is enough for me. 

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 16:24 | Link to Comment deKevelioc
deKevelioc's picture

MDB is back with his usual brilliance.  There's a big difference between taxation and theft.  One is a forced contribution to the public coffers, and the other is a forced contribution to the public coffers.  But I swear they are different things.

Tue, 04/09/2013 - 22:52 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Logging in using your 2 accounts to talk to yourself is quite pathetic.

In any case the MDB call for the end to medium and small business is a call for the end of tax revenues so you’ve already contradicted yourself. Responses back 'n' forth minutes apart, you tip your hand.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:14 | Link to Comment Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

better than living under the current tyrannical system you so love you sick fuck!

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:22 | Link to Comment Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

If you don't think that would be great, you simply have not the slightest clue what anarchy really means. (Hint: It is not lawless chaos.)

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:25 | Link to Comment McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

It's amusing how Dr. K. decries anarchy when the people of Cyprus just had their wealth stolen without a vote even taking place.

That's not to say a vote would have made it any better; just pointing out that governments increasingly don't answer at all to the citizens they claim to represent. The governments themselves are lawless, and that's far worse than the "anarchy" Dr. K. hates so much.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 14:59 | Link to Comment daveO
daveO's picture

It's Debt Slavery!

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:23 | Link to Comment tokengator
tokengator's picture

Go back to trade economics.  It is the only thing you have ever contributed a worthwhile thought..

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:28 | Link to Comment Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

I strongly disagree. He never contributed anything worthwile. Not meant to offend you, though ...

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 11:47 | Link to Comment ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

Even at that, Kman just restated the obvious.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:27 | Link to Comment franzpick
franzpick's picture

Bring it. It's just a matter of time until GoBombEm causes anarchy to his 'U.S.A' - the Unbalanced States of Amerika. And all these decades I thought 'a dick with ears' was just a characature.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:27 | Link to Comment e-recep
e-recep's picture

flat tax, you blithering idiot. flat tax for all.

Mon, 04/08/2013 - 10:35 | Link to Comment Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

If 10% is good enough for Jesus, it's more than good enough for government.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!