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Doug Casey on Internationalizing Your Assets

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Doug Casey of Casey Reasearch,

In a wide-ranging interview with Casey Research editor Louis James, Doug Casey discusses why it's imperative to start diversifying one's assets today, and provides some guidance in considering countries to diversify into.

L: Doug, we're getting a lot of questions from readers on how to follow your advice to diversify assets politically. I know it's a prickly subject, but what can you tell us about getting our money out from behind the new iron curtain that seems to be descending?

Doug: First – and I can't stress this enough – you've got to accept the grim reality of impending currency controls. The modern era of foreign exchange controls really started with the perversely Orwellian-named Bank Secrecy Act of 1970. For the first time, that made it obligatory for US citizens to report any foreign bank or brokerage accounts they had to the government.

But the threat is older than that, of course, going back to 1933, when Roosevelt confiscated Americans' gold. Interestingly enough, only gold bullion held by Americans within the United States was confiscated. If you had gold outside the United States, you were insulated.

L: I didn't know that – if history repeats itself, that could be a key tactical factor for our readers to consider.

Doug: Yes. There are no guarantees, of course. Those in government today think they can do absolutely anything they deem necessary and expedient. But at least if it's out of their physical bailiwick, it improves your odds.

L: Why do you think they allowed that exemption last time? I doubt it was because they had any shred of respect for private property – maybe they just recognized that trying to seize gold overseas would be impractical.

Doug: Good question. Well, the 1930s were a different era. Communication, for one thing, was vastly slower and more expensive than it is now. And you have to remember that though we had an income tax in the 1930s, since 1913 actually, very few people were paying it – even among those allegedly legally obligated to pay it. It was hard for the government to find out who they were, and how much they were earning, and so on. Even though there were only 140 million people in the country then, the absence of computers and much less centralization made it very hard for Washington to keep tabs on them.

L: The income tax really was a voluntary tax back then!

Doug: [Laughs] Much more so than now – it really was a different era. At any rate, based on this history and that the juggernaut is building momentum towards the bottom of the ditch, I have to reiterate my advice on the most important investment decision you can make. And it isn't one among the different classes of investment; it's political and geographical diversification. Simply put, that's because no matter where you live, your government is the greatest threat to your wealth today.

If you're a high-income earner, the state basically takes 50% of what you earn, and then from what's left, you have to pay your real estate taxes, sales taxes, and many, many other kinds of taxes. Government is without question the biggest danger to your financial health. You've got to diversify your assets so they are not all under any one government's control.

L: You say that in almost every speech you give these days, and you said it in one of our interviews a couple of weeks ago.

Doug: Yes, and it bears repeating, constantly. It's the elephant in the room that very, very few people pay any attention to, and it's going to stomp most people to death, for just that reason.

L: Okay, so give us a primer. For those who want to avoid getting crushed by the elephant, where do they begin?

Doug: To start with, it makes all the sense in the world to have a foreign bank account. Not a hidden one – I'm not advising anyone to break any laws. You report it on your annual tax filings. So, the government will know about it, but if it's a foreign bank account, they can't just step in and lock down your assets in an instant.

L: Does Canada count as a foreign country for Americans?

Doug: I'll probably get hate mail for saying so, but it's important for investors to recognize that Canada is a sort of "USA Light." When Washington says, "Jump!," Ottawa says, "How high?" Nonetheless, if only for the sake of formalities and legal pleasantries, US citizens would have some degree of insulation with a Canadian bank account. And, as a general rule, Canadian banks are more solvent than US banks, so setting up a Canadian bank account is an easy first step for many US investors.

The second thing to do would be to set up a Canadian brokerage account. Unfortunately, the SEC has made it so that no Canadian broker will open an account with an American unless they have a US subsidiary. That, in effect, makes your Canadian brokerage account like a US brokerage account. That doesn't help you much from an asset-protection point of view, but it does let you trade directly in many of the stocks we recommend in the International Speculator and the Casey Energy Report (not through a US market-maker via the pink sheets).

Third, I think that having a safe deposit box in Canada is vastly preferable to having one in the US. You probably do remember that when Roosevelt confiscated gold in 1933, he also sealed safe deposit boxes in all US banks. No American could visit a safe deposit box for some time without a government agent accompanying him. That could certainly happen again.

And all of this is true in other countries around the world.

But yes, as an easy place to start, Canada is a sort of plain-vanilla jurisdiction that's worth giving a try.

L: So, what would be the French vanilla, or even the Bailey's Irish Cream jurisdiction? Is there such a thing as a tax haven anywhere in the world anymore? Even the Swiss have caved… I just heard that they just started handing over new account info to US authorities.

Doug: Yes, apparently there were some 50,000 accounts UBS had, owned by US citizens. UBS, a multinational bank with a very substantial presence in the United States – and therefore exposure to extortion by US authorities – was going to hand them all over. The Swiss government stepped in, saying they would prosecute UBS officials if they violated Swiss law by doing that. But the Swiss worked out some sort of compromise with the US authorities, so only about 5,000 accounts are being handed over. On what basis they picked these 5,000 is uncertain.

So, the first tax-haven rule is to never go to a place that's obviously a tax haven. If I were interested in bank privacy, I'd forget about places like the Bahamas or the Caymans. It makes no sense at all today. All those little island republics are totally under the thumb of the US at this point. And they've always been infiltrated with stooges. They may have bank secrecy laws, but they don't have a tradition of privacy like Switzerland has – although that's no longer what it was.

You'll recall how the German government bribed a Liechtenstein banker to steal account names and information. The Germans then turned over relevant data to the UK, US, and other governments, who were quite happy to receive stolen goods. And there was about zero protest over the appalling theft. It's a testimony to how thoughtless and ethically complacent most people are; when a state commits a crime, they just overlook it.

L: Are you saying that all of the little havens are unreliable?

Doug: Well, I don't know of any that are reliable.

Instead, I would recommend places that are geographically distant from the US – and culturally distant as well. To me, the best places to be are in the Orient. That's partially because the Chinese and other Oriental civilizations are much less prone to roll over and do what they are told. National pride ensures that, if nothing else.

But if you go this route, with, say, an account in Hong Kong, you certainly would not want to use a bank like HSBC. It's got branches all over the world, prominently in the US – so, like UBS, they'll do what they are told.

Actually, there are still Swiss banks that will open an account for a "US person," if you can convince them to do it. But you definitely do not want a Swiss or Liechtenstein bank that has any presence in the US. The same would be true in the Orient – so forget about HSBC. You want a real Chinese bank. That way, when the US government calls, the phone will be answered in Chinese and no one will speak English with them.

The best places are the least obvious places. Malaysia is interesting. Thailand. These are completely non-tax-haven types of places – and that might make them suitable.

L: What about step two, getting a brokerage account?

Doug: Well, it's tough these days. If you want to trade in US and Canadian stocks, you pretty much have to have an American or Canadian broker. But one thing that can be done that is completely legal (and reportable) is to open up a foreign company. Then the company can open up a brokerage account. That way, you do have a level of insulation I think is very valuable, both from a practical and a legal point of view.

L: I gather you're not talking about the banana republic IBCs I see peddled on the Internet?

Doug: Right. Most of what you see on the Internet offering to open up an IBC – which is just an offshore company – are just scams, if not stings. The fees are too high. The people are usually sleazy. They often come up with all sorts of cockamamie tax-avoidance schemes. You may be encouraged to do things that are illegal. They are just disasters waiting for you to walk into. I strongly encourage people not to even consider such offerings.

If you want an offshore company for the purpose of convenience or a measure of privacy, completely reportable and within the law, the best thing to do is to go to the jurisdiction you've picked and see a lawyer who deals in that sort of business. Cut out the middleman. Ideally, the jurisdiction would be one that meets the criteria I outlined above, but is also a place you'd actually enjoy spending time in.

L: So, you hop on a plane to, say, Panama, and… how do you go about finding a reliable attorney to set up your corporation?

Doug: That's the intelligent way to do it. There's nothing illegal, nor particularly tricky about it; you just find a lawyer who specializes in it, pay the fees, and off you go.

How do you find a good lawyer? Same way you do at home; you go and start interviewing lawyers until you find one that impresses you as being sound.

Panama, by the way, is probably the best place to do this at this moment. The British Virgin Islands may be another. And, of course, if you're an Australian or a New Zealander, you should think about Vanuatu – it's only a two-hour plane ride from Sydney or Auckland.

Back in the Western Hemisphere, the only other reasonable alternative I see is Uruguay. It's always been promoted as the "Switzerland of South America" – and there's a lot of truth to that. Uruguay is a small country, about the same size and with the same size population as Switzerland, and a very big part of its national income is foreign banking. It has no tax on foreign-earned income – though, unfortunately, it recently instituted a tax on domestic-earned income. Too bad.

Another unfortunate thing about Uruguay is that when you import gold there – such as by carrying Krugerrands in your briefcase – their customs form asks you to report it. It's not against the law, but for some ridiculous reason, they want to know.

L: That's really all it takes? Find a lawyer and pay the fees?

Doug: Yes, though there can be nuances worth paying attention to. For example, there are various jurisdictions with different tax treaties that can be used to your advantage. The Dutch Antilles being a famous example, as far as dividends treatment goes. This is a specialist area that, well, you should discuss with a specialist. But you should definitely give it some thought.

Oddly enough, you can import gold into Argentina with no problems nor reporting requirements, and you can buy and sell gold in Argentina just as easily. It's much easier than in Uruguay, but I wouldn't dream of doing any significant banking in Argentina – and neither do Argentines. The government is just completely untrustworthy when it comes to things like bank accounts.

So, it's rather perverse; you can deal easily in gold in Argentina, but not bank accounts, and you can't deal in gold easily in Uruguay, but bank accounts are easy.

Frankly, the best place to look for one-stop financial services shopping is Panama. Banking is easy, and there's no gold reporting.

And yes, you can still take gold in and out of the US without reporting it. It's like stamps or rare coins. The exception would be, if you had enough of them, to remember that Double Eagles have a face value of $20, and the new Eagles have a face value of $50.

L: What about your cash, once you have your offshore bank account set up? You have to declare it if you take more than $10,000 on your person, but can you wire whatever you want?

Doug: Yes, you can send any amount of money you want, currently. It gets reported, but it's basically unregulated. And by the way, the $10,000 limit doesn't cover gold, but it does cover stock certificates and other financial instruments – but you can still send those by Federal Express.

L: I wonder how long that will last…

Doug: I'm sure they'll get 'round to closing all the loopholes. So, the time to act is now. We'll keep monitoring the situation, but when this happens, the Powers that Be won't want anyone to see it coming, so it will zing in from left field. Your only chance to protect your wealth is to start diversifying its exposure to any one particular predatory state as soon as possible.

I have to stress again the urgency of diversifying the political risk your assets are exposed to: do it now.

L: Okay, Doug – thanks!

Doug: You're welcome.

Your first step toward internationally diversifying your wealth is to tune in to a Casey Research webinar on the subject. Internationalizing Your Assets premiers at 2 p.m. Eastern Time on Tuesday, April 30. Doug Casey – Casey Research chairman and a New York Times best-selling author – highlights a blue-ribbon cast of financial experts who will reveal their favorite strategies for protecting your wealth abroad.  Get more information and register now.


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Thu, 04/11/2013 - 22:36 | 3439360 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Fortunately, I've had the foresight to not be wealthy.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 22:50 | 3439388 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Me too.  Although I do have tools, skills and the foresight to stock up on them.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:27 | 3439452 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

I used to be wealthy, but then I discovered 'Bitcoin'...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:13 | 3439579 knukles
knukles's picture

I get what he's on about.
Diversification against social political risk of confiscation, theft, access.....
But the other side of the coin just might be the risk of one's own country of residence confiscating any and all holdings abroad, global capital controls etc, that might negate any efforts.
Further, if y'all take anything of a close look at the reporting requirements for overseas accounts... onerous... and trying to escape such is not wise as in penalties, both monetary and other, trouble even opening up offshore accounts by Yanks...
Some home-based alternatives seem pretty competitive.

Plus, physical access is still the key.
Having a balance somewhere one cannot access at all is worse than an increased tax....

Sorta like the system is un-hackable drama...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:34 | 3439612 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

But that's the whole point of holding assets abroad, there is no jurisdiction to confiscate them.

A domestic government can tax you on them and deduct that tax from doestic assets but that's not the same. As long as I hold gold overseas I can sell it, convert it to cash and spend that cash anywhere, even if I have to pay tax on it. They can't confiscate it if it's under someone else's jurisdiction...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 02:10 | 3439762 lewy14
lewy14's picture

If this article had been written three years ago... wouldn't Cyprus have been on the list? Especially for Europeans?

Just sayin'.

Lake Bottom Capital Partners LLC.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 03:07 | 3439806 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Not my list but yes it would, along with every other jurisdiction on the planet...

I use Switzerland amongst other places... and I don't use banks for anything except immediate cash transfers.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 06:24 | 3439928 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Doug, I tried to "international" my assets and here's what happened.  The Swiss ratted me out.  The Italians seized my gold.  Argentina converted my $ to Argy paper.  Cyprus gave me a 100% haircut.  My stash in Japan is irradiated and they want me to come and get.  I tried to use bitcoin to transfer money and the server crashed.  While trying to physically move money from the US, the TSA extracted it from my asshole and confiscated it.

Thanks, dude.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 06:25 | 3439931 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

You're a fucking jinx...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 07:51 | 3440030 spankfish
Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:39 | 3439630 Dane Bramage
Dane Bramage's picture

I investigated expatriation once.  One of my criteria was: "Can I bring my evil, black rifles?"  That narrowed the list down rather abruptly (to zero).
Lesson from FDR?  Don't use safety deposit boxes.  Check. 
I'm a content barbarian.  Burying my barbarous relics in my own little plot of barbarous earth and protecting my family, self & wealth with my barbarous weapons, if need be.  Improbable it'll ever come to that but, if so, force only respects force.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:44 | 3439646 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

yes, until the policeman walks up the driveway and you don't shoot him...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:59 | 3439653 Dane Bramage
Dane Bramage's picture

Are they going door-to-door and wayyy out here already?  I think numbers are on our side + I'm nigh invisible... seriously.  Plan for any *probable* contingencies.  & try not to get hysterical.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 09:55 | 3440169 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture


"Burying my barbarous relics in my own little plot" Sounds good but- If a drone equipped with Ground Penetrating Radar flies over, how deep can it "see"?

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 09:54 | 3440472 robobbob
robobbob's picture

as it stands, the barbarous relics are quite a store of value in a very minimal footprint. just don't store them too close to your lead and lead delivery investments.

but beware, there is a huge difference between a casual search and the full body cavity treatment.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 04:29 | 3439865 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Holdings Abroad...

It's interesting Casey highlights that foreign gold holdings of US citizens weren't subject to Roosevelt's order...  TOO BAD CASEY IS COMPLETELY IGNORANT OF MORE RECENT HISTORY OF US TYRANNY OVER ITS SUBJECTS.

Such as Kennedy's executive order which explicitly made it crime for US citizens to own gold overseas.

If you - the US debt serf, has title to it, the IRS can come after it.  

By setting a company (those evil legal personages), that is not a US subject, you minimize the expropriation risk by the domestic tyrants of DC- if you are going go the full legally mandated disclosure route... because the full disclosure to the US Treasury is of ownership of paper shares of an overseas company, and the company itself is not subject to US imposed constraints on holding gold bullion.

As written - the article is an amateurish and provides false reassurances to readers. 


Fri, 04/12/2013 - 05:42 | 3439899 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

'If you - the US debt serf, has title to it, the IRS can come after it.' - yes, that is correct to the extent that as a US national you have no rights whatsoever, never did, because they define the laws that say you can own 'stuff' and they can change them when it suits them.

The only 'stuff' you can ever truly own must be in another country where the authorities can tax you on it as a domestic resident but they cannot confiscate it simply because you are a US national, and if you hold it in a trust or company as you say, it's game over for confiscation, not so domestic penalties though. But that's your choice isn't it...

The only thing left to say is that the terms under which you own it define it's taxability at home. Give some thought to that and you can achieve your goal even if it is legitimate avoidance of tax in the US, or anywhere else for that matter...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 05:59 | 3439911 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

The criminals write the 'laws' and can make them anything they want.

In a 'national emergency' the crooks could enact high taxation of overseas assets, with the co-operation of foreign governments. As pointed out, look how Switzerland caved in to pressure.  They could revoke the passports of anyone having gold held overseas. Its great to have that gold account in Singapore, but what if you can't fly out of the country to get it ?

Now if youve got Real Money and Political Pull, none of this matters. If youre a Corzine you can do anything you please. The little guy who retired with a mil or two after selling a small business he built for his whole life, ain't in that category. Nor are the vast majority of people far below his situation.

The only real solution is to wake others up and to turn this damned nation around from the fascist controlled police state that its become.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 06:24 | 3439929 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

In a 'national emergency' the crooks could enact high taxation of overseas assets, with the co-operation of foreign governments.

I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised if they did.

If you want to avoid high taxation then you need to look at the structure of your contracts, and get away from this idea that if you don't physically possess it you don't own it.

There is far more stuff owned under foreign laws than US law I can assure you...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 07:47 | 3440018 democratickindeling
democratickindeling's picture

So that is how they get planes to fly into buildings! You don't even need to train some arabs to fly just need Mustafa to buy a ticket and board!

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 10:38 | 3440714 Seer
Seer's picture

Whoa!  That link!  That explains how THEY* did it on 9/11!

* Either the "insiders," or the actual "terrorists."  If the later then that would be a good reason why the "insiders" wouldn't want the information disclosed lest it spook everyone from getting on an airplane.  Still the issue of the free-falling collapses...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 06:20 | 3439925 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

i was poor , then i discovered bitcoin! then i was a millionaire, then not, then a millionaire, then not then....  the story continues.


Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:23 | 3439448 zen0
zen0's picture

Well played. If only the poor knew how well off they were! Maybe there would be less whining.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:47 | 3439511 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Why do you think Obama is trying so hard to get everyone on government assistance? "Don't like what you're getting? I'll just turn this knob here and you'll get nothing! Still want to complain?"

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:42 | 3439498 Banksters
Banksters's picture

I'm buying parking lots in North Korea.  I hear a new mall is opening up soon.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:34 | 3439580 knukles
knukles's picture

A single glassine parking lot from horizon to horizon

Hi, can I park your ash for you?

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 10:39 | 3440726 Seer
Seer's picture

I was trying to impress my then girlfriend, now wife, to marry me.  I told her that I was "independently poor."  Ha ha!  She fell for it- she's now Mrs. Seer :-)

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:28 | 3439391 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

There may not be a lot of time left to quietly build up some assets overseas.  A few items for reader consideration:

1) You do not have to have a bank account overseas if you have someone reliable who owes you the money...

2) I too would be extra-careful about the "tax havens"

3) Ideally, you should have assets in a place where you would consider living

4) The sooner the better

5) Declare any liquid assets upon leaving (cash, gold, negotiable instruments, etc.) if they total over $10,000, you do not want to go to jail for being stupid...

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:31 | 3439459 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Set up a trust offshore and let the trustees do it.

They can open bank accounts and buy gold etc and FATCA only applies to trustees that carry on a business in the US.

Everyone else can quite legally give Uncle Sam a well deserved middle finger...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:06 | 3439567 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

In spite of a lot of crap you've said in the past, I find myself giving you a +1 for this post, cause merit is merit.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:16 | 3439587 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

"trustee"-LOL- as Agent Mulder used to say on The X-Files - "Trust no one".

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 04:35 | 3439870 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

FATCA also applies to US citizens who are the grantor, trustee, or beneficiary of an overseas trust that owns a "Financial Account"


Fri, 04/12/2013 - 05:33 | 3439897 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Yes they are aren't they. But trustees that are not US nationals and do not carry on a business in the US need not worry about it.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 06:06 | 3439914 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The thing that scares me about trusts is that even the basic recognition of the legal status of a trust varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and if history is any guide-- the IRS will whip out the same disallowance card they have used regularly on tax shelters- when shaking down the local tax tree stops yielding enough fruit to feed the beast.  Then the local (foreign) trust law and the willingness of the jurisdiction where the trust is domiciled to play nice with the US Treasury becomes a big issue.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 06:40 | 3439939 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Yes it does but the recognition of trust law as I understand it generally refers to the legal recognition of the division and separation of various trust assets on the balance sheet of the trustee. And yes you do need to look at that.

The problem with these tax shelters seems to centre around peoples intent to call a duck by another name to avoid tax. If it waddles like a duck and it quacks like a duck then the IRS will treat it like a duck and tax you accordingly regardless where the asset is sited. Money offshore doesn't have to be a tax evasion issue though for most offshore account holders it clearly is.  If you want to avoid tax then you need to look at your contracts and accept that if the law says that as a US national you pay tax, then as a US national you cannot hold assets offshore and not pay US tax. You have to do things differently because the US govt says that you must... If you aren't prepared to consider that then you pay US tax, period.

There are however ways to hold assets offshore not as a US national and that is as far as I go. I'm not aware that too many English or Frenchmen are currently crapping themselves because their assets aren't held under US law...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 10:42 | 3440739 Seer
Seer's picture

Excellent amendments!

"Ideally, you should have assets in a place where you would consider living"

And people should consider how they would be viewed in case of world-wide economic collapse, when the US is no longer "feared" and open season on Merikans might start up...

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 22:56 | 3439399 Possible Impact
Possible Impact's picture

Bitcoin - because there is safety in numbers...

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:03 | 3439416 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Can we perhaps start thinking more along the lines of making sure our own contry is not turned into a predatory state?  Do what you think you must, but if the US becomes predatory I'm not sure where else won't be.  Perhaps you guess right in your countries of choice, but most places will follow suit and you will still be hosed (and even less in control of things half way across the globe).

Diversification is less about the number of places you put your money than it is about the different KINDS of places you put your money.  Near as I can tell, most of the "developed world" is basically just slight variations on the same debt-fueled shit storm.  They're all going to move with a correlation approaching +1.00 (as one goes, so will they all).  There are few places left to "run to" unless you want to try your luck in some really out-of-the-way locales.

Something about gold buried under the basement floor keeps coming to mind as a more relistic alternative for the "average guy".



Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:47 | 3439650 Dane Bramage
Dane Bramage's picture

+1  I've diversified into: fuel, food, precious metals, ammo, etc. ,etc.,... none of which will ever be "declared" nor even known by any "official". 

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 08:33 | 3440104 petolo
petolo's picture

Don't forget honing up the little grey cells and reading Zero Hedge every day. Knowledge and cunning are still the best ammunition and can out-draw any gubberment half-wit..

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 10:48 | 3440768 Seer
Seer's picture

"Knowledge and cunning are still the best ammunition and can out-draw any gubberment half-wit.."

I recall hearing this kind of statement before... oh, yeah, "we can out-run that cop car!"  sure enough, but... oops, there's that OTHER cop car up ahead!  Moral of story: you cannot outrun radios.  There are the cogs and then there's the system...

Your point, however, is still valid in that one must be mentally sharp.

P.S. The "story" above was made up.  I, fortunately, have never been caught outrunning cop cars (yeah, I was pretty good- I don't do it anymore).

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:22 | 3439423 erg
erg's picture

Relax people.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 10:50 | 3440778 Seer
Seer's picture

OK, then here's where you can start:

1) Get off my back;

2) Pick up a shovel.

There's work to be done...

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:17 | 3439424 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I don't get this stashing shit overseas idea-I can barely trust the fucking bank in my community-how do I trust some little shithead English banker in Hong Kong half a world away. Panama sounds great-oh yeah- the CIA and Pappy Bush cleaned those accounts out back when they kicked Noriega's ass out-I'm sure they would never do that again. You see -right now Uncle Sam calls the shots and when he snaps his fingers all of these countries that are named above will ask " how high" he wants them to jump.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:32 | 3439467 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

You can't trust anything. Sure you can open an account overseas and report it to the government. All that means is they know exactly where your shit is located and how much. If they decide to confiscate wealth in the US and you fail to be out of the country when the SHTF they can put you on a no fly list, send your name and address to the DHS shock troops and disappear you.

If you're gonna move your wealth out of the US, then you better be prepared to move out as soon as possible. As Ron Paul said, you can build a fence to keep the Mexicans out, but that fence can also be used to lock you in.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:36 | 3439480 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

They can cancel your pasport at any time in which case no country will give you an entry visa and you are forced to return home.

You've been on a bungee for a long time but that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't look at your options offshore does it? What you do doesn't have to be illegal.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:53 | 3439529 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Don't disagree, but do you think a fascist government run by criminal psychopaths is going to look benevolently at someone that intentionally hid his wealth overseas to avoid not only taxes but wealth confiscation?

The rules are constantly changing to suit the prison guards. Today its ok, tomorrow you're an enemy of the state.

Anyway, this is mostly an intellectual exercise for most people reading this post on ZH.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:46 | 3439632 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

I didn't say anything about hiding it. It isn't illegal to hold assets overseas, it only becomes illegal when you fail to disclose it or evade taxes due on it.

Your problem is that they can take taxes on offshore assets from your domestic assets, which is why you have to comply with domestic law when you set up an offshore trust.

The simple benefit is that even if you don't, and you get hammered by the tax man he will still have great difficulty acquiring any assets not under his jurisdiction, though you might end up in a domestic jail whilst he tries it...

Don't break the law, if you look around you don't need to...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 11:08 | 3440932 Seer
Seer's picture

"I didn't say anything about hiding it"

It's getting into semantics here...

The entire point of the exercise IS to keep some entity from getting it.  "Hiding" is, I'd have to say, an applicable word/term.

Folks like Casy cannot come out and suggest that people undertake illegal activities.  But. clearly, if you do the "legal" stuff, as most here are noting, it really doesn't get you anything (other than physically separated from your "wealth").

Diversification has ALWAYS been the wise thing to do.  I don't think that it takes a rocket scientist to figure out how to diversify things, not if you really pay attention to the true fundamentals.

The same reasons Casey gives for internal threats should also apply to external entities (other countries).  AND, one should keep in mind that things WILL change.  One's sphere of influence/control is far smaller than most think- act accordingly.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:15 | 3439581 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Agreed. But you can get Foreign Residency, and that is easier and cheaper than most ppl think. But you gotta DYOH, or join the readership of Doug Casey or Simon Black, to leverage their know how.

Having said that, leaving the US is not for everyone. In which case, BTFD, stack and self-store in your place(s) of choice.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:33 | 3439471 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

sounds like you need to keep hold of your stash until the tax man takes it off you. That's much safer isn't it?

The US isn't the only place on the planet that has contract law, though it is one of the few that repeatedly seems to ignore it...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:20 | 3439593 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

the law- that's funny- most of the judges here in IL are elected by union leadership.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:41 | 3439634 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

For you Otto I recommend 'mattress'.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:50 | 3439652 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I know what you're saying but my lips are sealed

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:53 | 3439658 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

'nuff said then...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:22 | 3439589 knukles
knukles's picture

Plain simple reality of it all
These discussions strike me as the same when fighting is brought up.  My read on most of the brawlers is that most never served, have no bloody training, no idea what a real killing field is like, would rather run away, talk big, are sacred shit-less of their neighbor's dog and would be fuck all useless in the real deal.
Moreover, the sane amongst us loath violence and disorder.

Same rap on the off-shoring of money
Sounds great when its all talk or a board game
In reality, in most cases, ain't worth the risk or efforts.

Who's your momma?

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:53 | 3439657 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

For those that investigated matters BEFORE they made their money the discussion becomes entirely moot.

This topic is for those that didn't and are now stuck with a dilemma of 'how do I get the taxman out of my back pocket'...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 13:21 | 3441750 Seer
Seer's picture

Ah, a voice of reason!  Thanks for being here.

I try to spend more time DOING than talking.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:22 | 3439442 erg
erg's picture

I wanna invest my money on the island that tips over if too many people gather on one side.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 01:40 | 3439730 Midas
Midas's picture

Dats rayciss g!

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 13:25 | 3441769 Seer
Seer's picture


It's all so bizarre.  No one seems to understand the word "balance."

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:26 | 3439449 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture



I used to live in Asia. Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc... There is no possible way I would leave ANY Au in the hands of any the Chinese banks.

If it is not in your possession, you do not own it.


Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:40 | 3439457 erg
erg's picture

Tactility is everything.

Edit: To touch, to hold in ones own hand.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 13:27 | 3441785 Seer
Seer's picture

Hold close what's dear to you...  Would I send my wife to China to be "safe?"

Everything is messed up because people don't actually treat things as being valuable (it's all been "investment" "stuff").

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 02:47 | 3439791 Pareto
Pareto's picture

Every few weeks or so, ZH comes out with a "get your finances to another country session", and I appreciate the intentions.   But, there is no way, fucking EVER would I store my PMs anywheres where I couldn't access them in a pinch.  Just like the statement "well, you shouidn't have left your doo unlocked", I don't ever want to hear anybody say to me, "well you shouldn't have tried hiding your wealth somewheres where you don't have strict control over."  I think you are asking for huge disappoinmtnet when you realize that the incentive for anybody to look after your wealth is inversely proportionate to however desparate they themselves may find themselves in.  Its a fucking recipe for disaster.  You simply can't trust anybody under such circumstances,

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:33 | 3439474 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture

Youngster checking in here.

Doug has said in previous speeches that he's tired of broke libertarians not going out there and making something of themselves. Point taken. I would love nothing better than to throw 110% of my efforts into converting my love and talents into profit.

But knowing what the state will do with "their cut," I cannot but do the bare minimum for survival, on ethical grounds. Any surplus I have gets converted to silver. But I still have 50+ years left in me. I am willing to gamble that I will outlast this bullshit system and create something better in the next go, and become wealthier for it. But for now, my intent is to not draw attention to myself and just look like a sheep for the time being.

I love reading Doug's work, and ZH is a treasure trove of information and perspective. Only here can I say something, and someone who matters will read it. So I will openly receive any recommendations or criticisms on anything I post here re: going forward.

I have also had success in communicating with other millennials, so if someone's got something actionable to say, please say it.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:49 | 3439518 spine001
spine001's picture

I'm a GPL/GNU baby boomer. My 2 cents: focus your life into providing value to your community or society at large. Build your skills with that in focus and you will be rich in the terms rich will be understood in the future. If on the way you get extra cash buy PMs.


Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:59 | 3439549 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture

That is exactly where I'm focused right now.

I'm running into the problem that this country, or at least the places I've been lately, can't stomach much more value than it already has. But I'll make it work.

Along with the (very) occasional stacking of silver, I've made it point to be able to do five things: make stuff, move stuff, fix stuff, teach stuff, and guard stuff. I hope that will be enough to carry me through to the other side.

Cheers, bud.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:52 | 3439527 hydenunderwood
hydenunderwood's picture

Another youngster here. Same boat(currently at the bottom of a lake). Not as much luck communicating with other millennials as I have yet to master the art of speaking without saying anything meaningful. Just wanted you to know others are out there. Only advice I can give is, if history is any guide, we will proven right in the end. Sure feels like that end could play out longer than I imagined it could when I woke up 5 years ago though.


Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:16 | 3439586 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture


Not as much luck communicating with other millennials as I have yet to master the art of speaking without saying anything meaningful.

That is a cynical thing to say. In order to awaken other millennials, you absolutely must first rub off on them as a person. I don't just hit them with "End the FED." I play some pickup ballgames, I form rock bands with them, I crack clever jokes at work, AND in addition I also do all of those practical things that I mentioned above ^ (my "five modalities of stuff" as another ZHer brilliantly coined it in a previous thread). You must cultivate an almost celebrity-like status with them personally. Only then you can rub off on them. Only then will they have adopted enough of your brainwaves to listen to the serious shit.

This works. Not on everyone, but I have redirected some attention to ZH within my cohort. It takes a tremendous effort to break through the entrenched programming our generation has absorbed. I can only affect one or two people at a time. But I say it's worth it.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 01:38 | 3439723 putaipan
putaipan's picture

hey 1c3-n1n3 (and the other guy) - i dont' mean to break up a fight before it breaks out, but.... i'm pretty sure that the reference to "the art of speaking without saying anything meaningful" was just just one of those "millenial not thought out what i was  trying to say typo's".   just guessin', but pretty sure.


this cummin' from a prince/metheny/byrne non-boomer. (m jackson/madonna for you non cognescenti).

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 06:30 | 3439930 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

To the young guys . . . youre a helluva lot more aware of what end is up than I was at your age.  You likely already know this, but if not, I suggest checking out and Austrian economics. In particular read Rothbard if you havent already done so. (I like most of what he wrote. His works on the 1930s Great Depression, banking, gold, Liberty, and power elite analysis are outstanding.)  Then communicate to others about these ideas. They arent taught in so-called 'schools' or universities today. The Austrian economists predicted our current situation and explained why it would happen. When this all inevitably comes crashing down, the psychopath criminals will 'explain' it blaming the free market, value-for-value capitalism. The root cause of our situation is criminal fascism - the merger of a government/big-insider- corporation Nazi Mafia monopoly. That aint capitalism.

We're headed into a kinda future that was depicted in the movie 'Hunger Games' if we don't take our stand now. The best way to battle this is winning other hearts & minds. If an 'old dog' like me can learn new tricks, so can younger folks. Teach them. 

All the best - - -

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:57 | 3439546 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Some libertarians value different things in life than Doug does. Not everyone wants to be Rearden. If you count profit your whole life, you may be broke in the end.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:26 | 3439603 knukles
knukles's picture

If you count profit your whole life, you have already died.

Don't make that mistake
I took that road long ago and through grace, had a second chance.
I do not regret today, but would I'd woken up way earlier....

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:28 | 3439605 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture

I'd rather be d'Anconia. Rearden had no sense of humor.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 07:06 | 3439971 defencev
defencev's picture

But I still have 50+ years left in me. I am willing to gamble that I will outlast this bullshit system and create something better in the next go, and become wealthier for it.

You mean next incarnation?

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 14:33 | 3442082 Seer
Seer's picture

Food, Shelter and Water.  If you stand upon/focus on these fundamentals then, no matter what, you're going to be able to experience a longer life.

Piles of ANYTHING are of no use unless you know what to do with them.  Life is about motion (not static piles).  Learn how to be in balanced motion...

Best book title I'd ever encountered (have the book): Want What You Have.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:42 | 3439481 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Don't know if Doug&Co are unwilling or unable to discuss the real issue...

a)the closure of borders via capital controls is secondary to the the closure of borders via passport controls and the jackboot thugs of DHS and the rest of the three letter acronymns which have usurped and destroyed the only one that used to matter...USA citizen.

b)supposing you do get out, and are free to wander the world(equipped with some kind of magical liquid currency -like "BitDust"???)that world will not be as kind and gentle an experience for Merikans as it used to be...when the Empire ruled...

call it Imperial Backlash... the resentments of the rest of the world(outside the broken West), to visa hassles, to various subtle&notso subtle forms of arrogance, ignorance, and to general 'superiority complex' manifestations inbred into the former topdogs' psyches...will take the form of - visa hassles, arrogance, ignorance, an generalized shows of 'superiority complex' - all shown towards individual Merikans fleeing the FEMA Camps...who will be inevitably blamed and made to pay for the serial crimes of their ZOG-usurped government against civilians and other countries all over the earth.

This is sad...yet it be true. It was time to go, years ago...and tho you can you can still 'check out' of Hotel California at this point, quite possibly at some point soon, you will never, ever, leave. - Earnshaw\Rucker\Ayers - Rise

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:35 | 3439616 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Respectfully disagree: Most ppl on the planet are decent and smart enough to know the difference between a Person and a Regime. Especially once they get to know you. Of course if a person acts like a jackass, ain't any place in the world welcoming -- abroad or at home.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 01:23 | 3439700 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

With equal respect, I will re-iterate my conclusion, as it is based upon living in the midst of ppl of the type who's future attitudes were are discussing...

that's a foreigner living in a very different culture, I am of necessity attuned to the unspoken nuances of the people with whom I intersect - within the spaces of which one can sense the beginnings of a change in attitude...

everywhere you go on this planet, the ascendancy of "western" cultural norms has given a status to 'western people' which I would describe as being envied...emulated...esteemed, and deeper down, resented and ridiculed for being clownishly myopic to other peoples' values and ways of's a mix that has balanced in favor of the former for long time gone...but it's tipping over slowly in the other direction.

Once the reality of the economic decline hits...beyond the afterglow of affluence which the media(s)worldwide still continue to push upon the consuming public(s) as puerile pablum - that shift in attitude will be immediate...and intense. If you have not embedded yourself in a a member - fully invested(in much more than the financial sense!)in your new home...there is a very high risk that as ferengi, you will be treated with contempt and dislike...

and if you have little or no assets, the above assertion is a lock! You are of course, free to ignore this observation, offered in the interest and the welfare of all those who are my kith n kin back in the fallen lands.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 14:53 | 3442168 Seer
Seer's picture

I'm in total agreement with your reasoning on this: as someone who has traveled a bit I have a little exposure to these concepts (and, really, a US citizen can see how this could be by merely traveling to other parts of the States- not to some touristy place).

One has to consider that in many cases those "other countries" will be suffering from degraded conditions as well and that, as is human nature, people will look to blame anyone/anything that is different- yeah, like this is a stretch!

My wife is from Manila.  Manila is WAY different from the Southern Philippines.  In Manila I'm pretty my safe with my wife (she's highly respected by her family, and this radiates though the extended family...), NOW.  Couldn't say that if we were to go south.  And, to think of me by myself?  And in the future as economic pressures mount (10% of GDP in the Philippines is from remittances- this is rife with trouble)?

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 02:36 | 3439779 Pareto
Pareto's picture

And they laughed at Ron Paul at a Presidential debate where Ron asserted that he wasn't so much worried about fences keeping people out, as he was worried about fences keeping people in!  Gotta say, that statement doesn't seem so fucking funny anymore.....does it?

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 15:02 | 3442221 Seer
Seer's picture

Yeah, funny how all the xenophobes in their rush to keep "others" out manage to fuck themselves (and will, no doubt, blame others for it).

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:46 | 3439513 are we there yet
are we there yet's picture

If the government could, they would give out free padded 'A' cups and tax ' D' cups and higher to pay for it.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:51 | 3439522 aka Gil
aka Gil's picture

I suppose if I was wealthy and lived somewhere in the Western world outside the USA, I would consider following Doug Casey's advice. However my wealth consists primarily of my health plus a small stash of PMs. Being a US citizen, I have also exercised my right to bear arms for the purpose of defending my life and liberty. This is probably the last place on earth for me, so I see no personal need to "internationalize".

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 01:19 | 3439669 Professorlocknload
Professorlocknload's picture


That's the way I see it as well. What's in a place? Who's to know how bad it gets, where, when this thing finally unravels. I know this devil, but not one in some far off place. Besides, that's where a pocket full of PM's comes in anyway.

If I find the need to expatriate, I'll plunk a few doubloons down on a decent sail boat and head out. Or buy a dirt bike and jump the border somewhere out in the sticks, or find a pilot at some private airport that needs a fare. Or maybe hop a commercial fishing boat, or...

It might be easier to make it as a citizen here, than a foreigner there. And borders will always be penetrable, so I'll just sit back in the shadows and observe for now. In the end, if it's salvageable, I'll help fix it. If not, it's adios.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 01:40 | 3439726 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Five, maybe even three years back, I would have agree with your assessment...if n when it comes the time, there are always ways to leave.

Unfortunately, due mostly to the 'boiling frog' syndrome, most everyone has not stayed au courant with the steady removal of those methods of personal evacuation.

I'll leave the whole drone thing out of the discussion...except to say that the implications should be obvious. What's not so obvious, but needs be taken under close consideration by all resistors is that the Coast Guard has already been given militarized powers to search and interdict...the freedom that you think you have to pack up the boat and set off on a bearing for Dry Tortuga and points south does not exist...come the day that DHS etc mandates the interception of all outbound private craft. That day is not here yet. When it will come, nobody knows...

but if you think it's not coming, you're simply not as prepared as you think you are. I hope I'm wrong...but I wouldn't recommend bankin on it!

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 15:13 | 3442260 Seer
Seer's picture

You're right.  However, in the long-run such boarder policing won't be able to continue.  How long out it would be until such a time?  No idea.  My point here is that people don't lose sight of the fact that things will always be changing, and that if they change to "bad" then they are likely to then change from there (no, not "worse!"), to "better."

At some point you just gotta put your Picket Pin in the ground and make a stand.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 08:31 | 3440095 aka Gil
aka Gil's picture


I like the way you think. Let's hope there will be somewhere to go if it can't be fixed.


I appreciate your perspective however I think you give these .gov pussies too much credit for being able to pull it off. Hitler, Stalin and Mao were able to do what they did because the citizenry was not armed. If and when it becomes time to leave, I'm confident that I'll be able to leave on my own terms. Even if it means leaving the planet.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 23:54 | 3439534 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

As I posted a few days ago, in spite of laws and regulations, the US Customs guys often do treat PM at market value, when they FEEL like it. You can take it out, but you risk a world of hurt if you don't report it.

That's $10k per person, per trip, if undeclared, or much much more if declared. But if it's declared, it's on the books somewhere -- unless you then lose it in a boating accident in some distant land, or lose it as collateral in a foreign casino. Accidents and bad luck happens, that's just a fact of life.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:05 | 3439563 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Soon to be reduced to $5k, or $1k, or $0 undeclared per person. Those naked body scanners being installed at all exit gates, both air and land, are there for a reason ... and it's not to detect semtex in your underwear....

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:26 | 3439599 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

so sneaking gold eagles out like christopher walken did with that watch in pulp fiction is out of the question?

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:30 | 3439607 knukles
knukles's picture

They don't care about Timex's up your butt.
The tic-tocking might cause a body search and boom disposal frenzy so you might wanna go through security early so as not to miss your flight, but nothing about watches up the arse.


Fri, 04/12/2013 - 01:03 | 3439631 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

If practical, drive across the border and fly from there. Or... don't those Caribbean cruises stop at convenient island with SD boxes?

Most people (e.g. Jim Richards) think they'll do the easy but smart thing and tax the $hit out of your PM when you sell it. It's a real cat & mouse 'arms race'.

p.s. US Eagles are too impure to be considered Investment grade abroad. Don't be a 'Gringo', be street smart and get Maple Leafs or Perth Mint coins.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 06:27 | 3439932 Fred C Dobbs
Fred C Dobbs's picture

Most banks with safety deposit boxes require a bank account first and to get a bank account you need to be a resident, a resident will need to show a utility bill to prove they live there.  

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 15:22 | 3442291 Seer
Seer's picture

Thanks for pointing this out.  I'd previously discovered this very thing... since the boating accident it's no longer been a concern...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 05:24 | 3439880 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

US Customs may look at gold based on the MARKET VALUE, because the way the Statute is worded they have legal the authority to value gold and gold bullion at the market value of the gold content.  

But these is a much simpler work around - wire money and buy your gold overseas.  

Every jurisdiction is different, but as an example - wire USD 54,000 to UBS in Switzerland, go Switzerland, stay in a nice hotel for a couple days, get 50 crisp CHF 1000 notes from UBS and walk over to Credit Suisse and buy CHF 50,000 in gold, and then walk over to Banque Cantonale de Genève and open a safe deposit box account, and if anyone asks - you blew it on some legal (in Switzerland) high dollar hookers or the casino in your high dollar (compared to the US) hotel -I think the Mövenpick right across the road from the airport in Geneva even has a casino.  The caveat to Switzerland is your papers have to be in order beforehand and nothing is cheap, but the same model works in various less expensive jurisdictions. 


Fri, 04/12/2013 - 05:39 | 3439900 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

the problem is not many Swiss banks accept US money any longer.
Try KaiserPartner in Zurich or Lichtenstein, but you need at less 5mm to open an account. They are one of three Swiss banks that are SEC regulated.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 06:29 | 3439933 Fred C Dobbs
Fred C Dobbs's picture

US Customs does look at the market value of the gold and not the face value on the coin.  

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 07:18 | 3439988 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Good luck beating that notion into their heads... some of them have even read the code and regulations, but think that their individual "interpretation" of those words supersedes a Court's interpretation.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 05:26 | 3439894 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

It's probably "on the books" already, as your transactions to buy PM's would have left some reportable traces. Moreover, expect future rules about not to be able to sell in any meaningful quantity without documentation about how you acquired them.

Prepare for draconian laws that make the owner of 'undocumented" gold a money launderer/terrist. That way the govt does not need to do any confiscating. It has a database and it owns the owners.

I would say, if you are to take it out, report it. When your overseas PM ownership still causes domestic serfdom/liabilities, then the time has come to say goodbye to the land of the free.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:26 | 3439604 TGR
TGR's picture

Re "You want a real Chinese bank. That way, when the US government calls, the phone will be answered in Chinese and no one will speak English with them."

Sage advice overall Doug, but you're wrong on the above. I have accounts with four seperate Chinese banks, both in Hong Kong and in mainland China, and can attest it's not 1986 anymore: all these banks have English phone lines and fluent English speakers at first point of contact.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 15:27 | 3442322 Seer
Seer's picture

All they really need to know is "fuck you" for when the time comes that the US has tripped to all out economic warfare.  The Chinese banks are likely going to be "permitted" to confiscate Merikan holdings.

Isn't there a saying about keeping your enemies close?

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:36 | 3439617 Future Jim
Future Jim's picture

Build your skills, health, and alliances. They're hard to steal, and you're going to need them.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:45 | 3439644 boeing747
boeing747's picture

Why not buy Gold Certificates from Perth Mint of Australia or get a Canada/Mexico green card and live in those border cities next to US.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 01:03 | 3439679 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Abkhazia?  Crazy risky?  Risk on.  Know any Russians from the area that are accountants?  Nevermind, I do.  Woman in the other room that speaks more languages than I, has been there.  Pretty nice I hear.

No .gov and no central bank?

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 01:13 | 3439691 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

This is nice but completely impractical and irrevelant for probably 95% or more of Americans.  I would do the following:

1. Make sure you have money in several US accounts at different banks and no amount over $100k in combined assets at any US bank.  Make sure almost all of them have a physical location close by. 

2. Always maintain several piles of cash at home at are least $5k in several seperate locations.  If you can swing it, i would advise up to $20k or $25k.  Make sure to have plenty of smaller bills.  The odds of the dollar going bust are pretty damn slim but it never hurts to have a pile of cash around for several reasons.  The most probable one is a natural disaster. 

3. A safety deposit box at a US bank is still a good idea but just don't go hog wild.  Better place to keep family heirlooms that have some value. 

4. PM are nice.  I wouldn't go hog wild but diversifying into silver/gold coins and even some platinum certainly isn't a bad thing.  The bitch is storage and find a place to store it on your property.  Cash is easier in this regards since it is lighter and easier to put in various places people won't look.

5. Precious stones aren't bad either.  I go down twice a year to Venezuela/Brazil for diamonds and trade via RAPNET.  Not a real money maker but a nice alternative that is easily portable and have done well in difficult times in the past century as long as you have decent quality stones. 

6. Have some land and the knowledge to know how to grow and maintain a back yard garden.  It certainly won't provide you with all of your needs but it will provide an important local food source you control.  It was a norm until WW2.  If you can't do that, try to find some local community gardening space that is available. 

7. Know how to can and preserve food.  Again it seems pretty mundane but knowing how to can and dry food to preserve it is a cheap and easy way to maintain a food source.  Plus it is a useful and fun thing to do with your kids especially in the summer with berries & tomatoes & cucumbers & various beans and in the late sumer/fall with apples & peaches.   

8. Handyman skills.  I wish I have learned more growing up but anything you can do in regards to plumbing, electrical, or other small contractor-type stuff always has some real value.   

9. Debt isn't bad if used productively but keep it as low as possible.  Credit card debt is a no-no.   Ditto auto leases, home equity loans, and a host of other things. 

10. Know people in your local community.  Get involved in different volunteer and civic organizations.  I do Habitat regularly and find it highly rewarding.  The bonus is I get to learn new things occasionally and form a lot of various contacts. 

11.  Enjoy yourself.  Life is short and if you read this blog you could easily become way too pessimistic.  Maybe shit will get hard and maybe it won't.  If you continue to always live under the gray cloud expecting the deluge, you will be surprised how quickly life passes you by and how people avoid you.  You only get one go round on this ride so make it worthwhile.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 01:28 | 3439705 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

"PM are nice.  I wouldn't go hog wild but diversifying into silver/gold coins and even some platinum certainly isn't a bad thing."

Metal grounds you.  There is no way in hell I would ever make it through any border controls.  I will stay here.  Fine then.  Looks like you will have put up with me.:-)

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 04:48 | 3439876 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Enjoy yourself.  Life is short and if you read this blog you could easily become way too pessimistic.  Maybe shit will get hard and maybe it won't.  If you continue to always live under the gray cloud expecting the deluge, you will be surprised how quickly life passes you by and how people avoid you.  You only get one go round on this ride so make it worthwhile.

Outstanding point.  Trying to keep a mental/emotional balance while learning what is really going on around you is the biggest challenge to ZH regulars.  I attribute the periodic burnout/ 'going AWOL'/ 'going down in flames' we see in the comments section to this.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 06:50 | 3439955 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Very good points by both of you.  I must remind myself regularly that what is going on has happened throughout human history going back thousands of years. That is, the little guys getting screwed over by criminals who feed off of us.

We are all blessed to live in a time when its likely that more people are aware of the true situation than any time in history. Because of this, humanity actually has the opportunity to get off this treadmill of manipulation & exploitation. We have the chance to grow up and not rely on the promises of 'security' used to steal wealth & Liberty from us.

In the meantime enjoy the Zen moments you have.  The laughter of children, the sounds of spring, time with loved ones.  Our time here is very short.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 07:50 | 3440031 CelticCanuck
CelticCanuck's picture


Fri, 04/12/2013 - 08:24 | 3440078 Vooter
Vooter's picture

Yup...all good. Especially the last one...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 01:35 | 3439716 jeebus
jeebus's picture

I know a bunch of you assholes enjoyed laughing at bitcoin and watching it crash.


However, I hit it pretty big with bitcoin buying in starting at 15. If I hadn't been trying to diversify slightly out of PMs, I would never have had that chance.


I mean, what other options are there? I own some mining shares. That's not really diversification.


I don't really like the banking system. As one analyst said, "You can't invest off earth."


Bitcoin made history and I'm very proud to have been a part of that. It is a story I will be able to tell my kids and their kids can tell their kids.


Some asshole just decided to invent a currency because he was fed up with government bullshit. It's a totally beautiful story no matter how much you cock suckers want to laught at it.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 01:49 | 3439745 putaipan
putaipan's picture

72.03 ain't the 16.49 i got into it.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 01:54 | 3439753 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Yu sound mad bro. Not sure what your beef is exactly, since it sounds like you can't be hurt too bad whatever way the coin crumbles...

but if you really want an answer to your question...>what other options are there>...then extend your vision of what "diversification" the point of understanding that, in the wider world, we of the west are a smallish minority of people, whose time of ascendancy is over as all such eras pass. Big change be brewin.

Right now, just based on superficialities like skin an eye color, etc., you have a built up store of credit walking around with you wherever you go...Whitey's still looked up to and given respect around the globe...but not for much longer. Use that credit wisely, to set yourself up in a new nest wherein to ride out the comin storm...and be one of the surivivors, for when the time comes that we can open back out the shutters on a new morn of peace n plenty for all...from Gondor to the Shire.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 07:28 | 3439998 defencev
defencev's picture

Bitcoin made history and I'm very proud to have been a part of that. It is a story I will be able to tell my kids and their kids can tell their kids.

But what kind of history? Just another Ponzi scheme....

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 08:20 | 3440072 Vooter
Vooter's picture

"It's a totally beautiful story no matter how much you cock suckers want to laught at it."

I think most people here would agree that it's a beautiful story. But I, for one, don't have much trust in anything that I can't hold in my own two hands. It's not that complicated. I'm all for brilliant, beautiful schemes (like Bitcoin) that subvert TPTB, but I'm also a realist...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 01:47 | 3439742 boeing747
boeing747's picture

Buy 10 @$1000 walmart gift cards (no expiration date), you are diversified.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 01:50 | 3439749 putaipan
putaipan's picture

are you insuatin' that's the digital currency of choice when they're converted into camps?

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 05:00 | 3439885 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

How is that ANY different (better) from keeping $10,000 in your checking account?

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 02:53 | 3439796 boeing747
boeing747's picture

First defense is 'Read Zerohedge and stay alerted', right? Tyler. 

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 04:12 | 3439858 alfbell
alfbell's picture



This guy doesn't have all of his oars in the water. He's just as vulnerable as the rest of us. Maybe more so. The only chance of preserving wealth is by having it in your proximity and somewhat under your control in some form that might not get wiped out when things go wacky.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 09:59 | 3440471 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

The reason Caseys' oars don't touch the water is cause he's not running a Viking longship dude...he's just papier mache'd that look onto what's really a hydrofoil running with a Volvo Penta AD41/ as to give the punters a chance to catch up on the concept...


seems you understand that things will 'go wacky' ...check. Your assets are best kept "your proximity and somewhat under your control"...check.

Here comes the 'hard' part...that you're gonna wanna check out of FEMAVILLE while it's still an option is the unspoken given here. Since you understand that the shiny stuff needs go with you...the whole gambit has been mapped out for you with the blanks all filled in. Now I got no truck with Doug's expat scheme, nor do I think that the guy has much on the ball about where to actually go to up the odds of bein free for at least a lil bit longer...

but at least he's tee'd up the ball for's up to you whether to swing, or just head back into the clubhouse to wait for the authorities to arrive with the buses...that travel express route service to the trains with the shackle assembly built in 'em.

cue: more bravado bout takin down the entire SWAT TEAM Task Force arrayed against ye...with your arsenal of semi-automatic weapons and the year's supply of ammo you carefully hoarded. But that's just 'wacky' talk.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 04:33 | 3439868 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

"...Put your money in a real Chinese bank..."

Yeah, right. Sould like a good way to lose money to Chinese confiscation. I'll trust Uncle Sam before I'll trust the Chinese.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 06:58 | 3439965 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

I lived in the Caymans for 2 years and certainly do not have any confidence in those clowns.  Every year they discuss/implement some way to screw over fereigners.  Panama?  Haha.  Ever been to Colon or Panama City?  The odds are extremely high of being robbed at gunpoint on the street in broad daylight.  I also had Bank accounts in Fiji and I can tell you for certain they are way ahead of the US with capital controls being the military dictatorship that they are.  Lesson to learn here is to know the country you are going to invest in by going there and living there first.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 07:38 | 3440010 defencev
defencev's picture

I lived in the Caymans for 2 years and certainly do not have any confidence in those clowns.  Every year they discuss/implement some way to screw over fereigners.  Panama?  Haha.  Ever been to Colon or Panama City?  The odds are extremely high of being robbed at gunpoint on the street in broad daylight.  I also had Bank accounts in Fiji and I can tell you for certain they are way ahead of the US with capital controls being the military dictatorship that they are.  Lesson to learn here is to know the country you are going to invest in by going there and living there first.

It is a very good point. Conversely, people who bash HK and China based on their prejudices are equally wrong. I lived in HK and I have a reasonable degree of confidence in the jurisdiction. The safer jurisdictions are those which are on solid economic footing.

And do not take my word for it. Jim Rogers keeps some of his funds in mainland China and some of his Gold in HK...

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 07:42 | 3439992 css1971
css1971's picture

Some of you are missing the point.

Diversification is a basic engineering technique to improve overall safety. It's purpose is to reduce the likelyhood of catastrophic failure.

It does work, but you have to remember what it's for. It might increase the risk of smaller non catastrophic failures. So what you're doing is exposing yourself to a larger number of smaller losses but reducing the chance of losing everything.


Imagine an oil terminal with 1 pipeline out. If that fails the entire terminal is down, polluting the environment and no money coming in. Add a 2nd pipeline beside the first and you get to work at 1/2 capacity and only pollute 1/2 as much if one line fails. If someone bombs the 2 lines, you're back where you started total loss, so you direct 1 line out to the north the 2nd line out to the south of the facility, it makes bombing the lines more difficult. But now you have 2 lines which have to be maintained the chance of getting a failure is twice what it was, it's just that you don't lose everything when it actually happens. If you have probabilities of individual component failure you can calculate the probability of catastrophic failure, and engineer it to an acceptable level.

The same technique can be used on stocks, economic sectors, plant / machinery, computer systems, warfare, business, economics. It's worth understanding.

And it's why markets are better than central planning and Austrian economics are better than Keynesian economics.

I could point out that what bankers and governments have been doing for the last few decades is the exact reverse of this. Engineering diversity out of the system, creating larger too big to fail organisations which will be an absolute catastrophe when it fails. i.e. They are engineering larger failures at the expense of smaller ones.


Fri, 04/12/2013 - 07:52 | 3440034 PeakOil
PeakOil's picture

Doug, Doug, Doug...

"First – and I can't stress this enough – you've got to accept the grim reality of impending currency controls."

Why? Why just accept?

Somes things to ponder;

  • remember the horse & buggy days when we only used snail mail to send messages? My how things have changed.
  • networks
  • strong crypto
  • critical mass; uncontrolled reactions, tipping points

Add the above together and the game changes. I'm simply saying that it is a little early for mere acceptance. Get out your popcorn.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 08:30 | 3440086 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Generally speaking I would say that blatant fascist regimes can implemet drastic changes more rapidly than closet fascist regimes (like the US and EU).  Maybe India?  Anyone with experience there?  I mean someone who has lived there and invested.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 08:36 | 3440119 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Doug omitted the most obvious solution.  Become a bank.  Banks don't pay taxes and when things turn to shit, they get bailed out.  As a bank you decide what to report.  Banks are exept from asset taxes and at best pay a small token fine that is levied with a wink and a nod, just for apperances sake.  There is no counterparty risk because you are the risk asset on everyone elses books.  Your paper gold has an infinite supply and it's so easy to store and even easier to resell.  Best of all, you blend in like a chameleon.  A bank is the last place gov will search for assets.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 08:55 | 3440191 d edwards
d edwards's picture

I like it! "The First National Bank of Me."

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 08:50 | 3440173 ZH11
ZH11's picture

What use is a safety deposit box in Canada or a UBS account in Switzerland when if the scenario he's preparing for happens it would automatically mean massive restrictions on the movement of people that alone movement of money, assets etc.


Also, ' Chinese and other Oriental civilizations are much less prone to roll over and do what they are told', since when?

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