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Germany's 'Five-Wise-Men' Confirm Wealth Tax Is Coming

Tyler Durden's picture




 

As we have vociferously warned since September 2011, and most recently as the Cyprus debacle exploded explained why it is just beginning, Germany's Council of Economic Experts (or so-called 'Five Wise Men') just confirmed a wealth tax is coming. As the Telegraph reports, confirming our expectations, Germany warns that states in trouble must pay more for their own salvation, arguing that there is enough wealth in homes and private assets across the Mediterranean to cover bail-out costs. They further added that targeting deposit-holders is also a mistake, since the "resourceful rich just move their money to banks in northern Europe and avoid paying," preferring instead taxes on property or other less-mobile assets, "for example, over the next 10 years, the rich should give up a portion of their assets." As we noted here and here, the differences between mean and median wealth in the peripheral nations suggest that people in the bailed-out countries are often better-off than those in Germany - - "this shows that Germany has been right to take a tough line of euro rescue loans." However, the implications of a wealth tax - implicitly impacting the pro-euro Southern European uber-rich - raises the specter of EU breakup once again.

 

Via The Telegraph,

Any serious move to a wealth tax could the erode the pro-euro ardour of South Europe’s uber-rich. The ECB bond buying policy has largely rescued the wealthiest strata while the full brunt of EMU austerity has fallen on ordinary people and the unemployed.

 

The political debate on euro membership may change dramatically if rich Cypriots, Italians, Spaniards, and Portuguese start to see EMU as a threat to their property, rather than a defence.

Via Der Spiegel,

Prof Lars Feld, another “wise man”, highlighted a recent study by the European Central Bank, which Germans say show that the people in bailed-out countries are often better-off than those in Germany. Less than half of Germans own their own home, lower than the rate in many southern eurozone members.

 

The ECB study found that the “median” wealth in Cyprus is €267,000 (£227,600), compared to just €51,000 in Germany. The median or midpoint level – which strips out the distorting effect of the super-rich – was €183,000 for Spain, €172,000 for Italy, and €102,000 for Greece, and even €75,000 for Portugal. Average wealth in Cyprus is €671,000, far higher than in the four AAA creditor states: Austria (€265,000), Germany (€195,000), Holland (€170,000), Finland (€161,000).

 

Prof Feld said the report showed that people in the crisis countries are richer than the Germans. “This shows that Germany has been right to take a tough line of euro rescue loans,” he said.

As Mark Grant comments:

Here may be the next "one-off" and it is a frightening one. A tax on "wealth and property" would almost certainly include equities and bonds. This then would mean that dividends and fixed income coupons would be taxed. This would ostensibly mean that if you were a U.S. money manager and that you owned securities in any Eurozone debtor states that you could get taxed on your investments. Then go one step further because if the debtor nation got into trouble you could have your holdings expropriated just like the depositors in Cyprus. This is scary stuff in my opinion.

 

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Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:50 | 3447556 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

 

'All your wealth is ours. We'll let you know what you need to live.'

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:01 | 3447595 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Buy gold, and hold it quietly.

What Wealth Tax?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:09 | 3447613 macholatte
macholatte's picture

 


We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.

Ayn Rand

 

 "The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. ... We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it.  Power is not a means, it is an end.  ... How does one man assert his power over another ... By making him suffer.  Obedience is not enough.  Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own?  Power is inflicting pain and humiliation.  ... A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. ... If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."

-- George Orwell 1984

 

For the bureaucrat, the world is a mere object to be manipulated by him.

Karl Marx

 

Life is a corrupting process from the time a child learns to play his mother off against his father in the politics of when to go to bed; he who fears corruption fears life.

Saul Alinsky

 

I believe there's about 78 to 81 members of the Democrat Party who are members of the Communist Party. It's called the Congressional Progressive Caucus.

Allen West

 

 

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:16 | 3447624 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

 

Lets all gang up to protect the millionaires and billionaires - out of solidarity. They wouldn't let us go broke, now would they?

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:53 | 3447650 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

This is the explanation for the coordinated gold smackdown.

Gold is likely a first thought for many when they hear "wealth tax".

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 19:29 | 3447801 The They
The They's picture

In order to take all your money, the government will have to drug you http://www.naturalnews.com/039907_psychiatric_drugs_forced_medication_Sa... so they can take your guns http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/04/ny-gun-confiscation-starts-may-set-pre...

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 19:56 | 3447833 knukles
knukles's picture

Last week they proposed nobody having over $3MM in personal retirement accounts meaning at age 65 with a divisor of some 27, say, a gross pre-tax minimum mandated withdrawal of approximately $111,000.
Now mention that to dentists, doctors, lawyers, and other self employed and they'll tell you its a wealth tax.
By hook or by crook, this current administration is bent upon wealth redistribution meaning that the rich aka $200,000 pre-tax gross unadjusted income (and soon to capture everybody but the free shit army) get poor while the poor get shit and the government bureaucrats live life on insider trading, government retirement and health care largesse.

some nice shit....

 

Oh and a PS... Take a quick guess how this is gonna play out alongside depositor thievery.
Right, I knew you'd guess it.... big boost to economic activity.
Sure.
Fucking idiots

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:04 | 3447851 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Yeah but knukles it's only fair because any federal worker who is accumulating a pension that will end up at the same amount or more will have to....will have to....umm....will have to.....I am sure they will have to something. Give me a minute....

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:13 | 3447862 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

The Global Criminal Cabal (Bankster/Intelligence)Crime Syndicate
Must be eliminated in somewhat the same fashion The Knights Templar were persecuted & executed .

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:38 | 3447909 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

through down arrows and facebook dislikes?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 23:20 | 3448482 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

In other news, European tax collector now is equipped with pliers and forceps. If can't get at citizen's fillings, will go after first born.

... all in day's work.

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 02:47 | 3448798 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

France already had wealth tax.

Inflation is wealth tax.

Your largest asset in real estate get wealth taxed...they just labeled it differently as "real estate tax".

Western religion tells you to pay 10% God tax. not taxed by government as a donation, but still money leaving your wallet to from liar who can't deliver.

 

Only way to avoid getting taxed is to become the tax collector...banks, governments, churches

 

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 07:05 | 3449060 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

So did Germany but I think the SPD under Schroeder abolished it

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:47 | 3448075 casfoto
casfoto's picture

We can get together another Templars Curse...put it on them. Maybe a few sticks of wood at their feet with a gallon of gas to help start the fire. How many times has this event happened through out history. Over and over. It is like waves crashing on shore. China took major steps thousands of years ago to stop the rich from taking the poor for a ride.  We should learn from history and not repeat the stupid mistakes of mankind. The biggest question is can we learn? Is there real progress or is it fleeting. I think progress is a myth.

 

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 10:20 | 3449846 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Progress is not myth, is tool. Elite is use "progress" (and pogrom in name of "progress") to advance agenda to control and subjugate and sheeple majority don't just accept, but actual is fight for "progress". Idiots.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:17 | 3448005 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

The only way a Federal Worker can accumulate $3M in tax deferred assets is to make all the right trades in their TSP account - which has the choice of the S&P 500, a bond fund, an international fund, the uber-safe Treasury G fund (which has very low interest rates but never goes down), and a few other various and sundry options.. He would have to buy low and sell high at all the right moments, and is limited to maybe 6 trades per year. I'm sure some people can do this, but overall it will be extremely rare.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:42 | 3448058 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Dude the federal worker gets the pension. Are they capping pensions? Because 3 million in a 401k or IRA in a combination of stocks and bonds has a dividend yield somewhere in the range of 3%. So that kicks off about 90k in income.

I don't care if some federal worker has additional money in their tsp fund. I was being sarcastic about them capping the pensions, which I certainly don't hear that being discussed.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:11 | 3447981 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Exactly Knuckles,

The global cabal of bankers and their political lackey's will pursue wealth taxes, and will sell it to what is left of the "middle class" as a way for them to avoid the same fate, while selling it to the poor as a way to "get even".

Then, when it just isn't enough, everyone will be taxed and have austerity imposed upon them, until the masses get up the guts and their inchoate anger turns to focused rage.

A lot of suffering and lost assets between now and then.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:32 | 3448033 lewy14
lewy14's picture

@knuk, killing economic activity isn't a bug for them, it's a feature.

They need to print money, and the way they prevent inflation from blowing up is to kill velocity.

The horror is not that this system isn't stable. The horror is that it is stable.

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 10:08 | 3449757 prains
prains's picture

you guys keep talking symptoms, you're all make great financial doctors of diagnosis BUT who the fuck among you is the surgeon that's gonna cut the beasts heart out?????

let me know

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:12 | 3447989 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

I think Real Estate, vehicles, and other registered, licensed, and titled assets first. They will initially go after those things that they know you have, or which cannot be moved.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:33 | 3447662 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Let's all gang up and protect the politicians and bureaucrats - out of solidarity. They have our best interests at heart, right?

The problem with stupid people like you is that you don't realize that after they are done with the rich, they'll be coming after you. Besides, in this case the "rich" are people who make $250K/yr, not Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, and George Soros. They are exempt from any wealth taxes. 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 19:22 | 3447785 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

I have my opinion and you have yours. No reason to call each other names, is it? Is more of a sign of immaturity on your part.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 19:57 | 3447837 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

sun tzu, i agree with abraxas here, there's no reason to use a hurtful word like "stupid" when a more politically correct term is available, like "intellectually challenged".

seriously, though, it's not about millionaires or billionaires, it's about right and wrong. men of good conscience need to stand up against theft and say no, we do not support this.

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:08 | 3447980 jayman21
jayman21's picture

It is the fight club....get over it

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 22:10 | 3448179 Blano
Blano's picture

I don't do PC, thus I prefer something more appropriate, like fucking idiot.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:54 | 3447947 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Sun Tzu, if these people would only read your book...

"All war is deception."
~Sun Tzu

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:33 | 3448038 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

It's all out war against the 1%.  Anyone care to wager who will win?

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:40 | 3448055 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

First they came for the billionaires ... and I watched in amazement as they partnered up with them.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 22:02 | 3448123 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I see it too...there, in the treeline, hiding behind the children, beckoning for the parents to come closer for a better shot ;-)

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 00:16 | 3448630 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

It is more like the 0.01% against everyone else, the remainder of the 1% are useful idiots that think they are part of the team until the Night of the Long Knives 2.0 comes around, the 98% who are sucking their thumbs waiting for directions and the 1% that can't believe what they are seeing.

The revolution is between humanity's ears, but they want no part of it en masse.  They prefer make believe and the lies that soothe.

If you are Christian, you believe the demon spawn 0.01% win so big they would destroy themselves in the process...  except for divine intervention.

Say what you will, divine intervention is about the only thing that looks promising for the commone person at this point.  Everything else, from peak criminal finance to peak oil and over population relative to oil says...  just try and survive as long as possible and make it as pleasant as possible in the process.

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 04:06 | 3448836 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Nobody will win. Everyone will end up losing. However, it usually is the poorest that lose the most, especially the most vulnerable, like the women with children tend to lose the most, while the richest will overall tend to lost the least. However, overall, the madness of a global system based on electronic fiat money frauds, backed by weapons of mass destruction, shares in the basic problem that has existed ever since weapons of mass destruction were developed. Amplifying old-fashioned greed and stupidity by technologies that that are trillions of times more powerful will result in everyone losing, more than we could currently imagine.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 22:05 | 3448133 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

Abaxhas is one of the few who get it and he was down arrowed, even on zerohedge. WHO GIVES a fuck about a wealth tax, 80% of the people have only 7% of the wealth. Fuck the rich let them pay for their ability to sleep at night ,don't they want the cops and government to protect their life style. Or maybe the rich want me and my homies comin over and taken their shit. How about the next time a rich guy parks his ferrari i jack his car and go for a ride. Who the fuck does that rich guy think he is. Better than me lololololol.
And the 80% on this website ought to get a fucking clue

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 23:59 | 3448595 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Geez, another one. They're not going to confiscate from Buffett, Gates, Soros and the bankers. It didn't happen in Cyprus and it won't happen here. They will confistate from people who make $250K/yr and your 401k/pension/IRA. You think Warren Buffett and Bill Gates are driving farraris and lambos?  You're pissed off at successful doctors and small business owners when it is the bankers, politicians and international financiers who robbed your ass. They pulled  quick one on you mental midgets. 

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 00:19 | 3448638 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Tzu, where can I get my fair share of "bliss" that comes from ignorance?  The people just crave it so it must be incredibly good.  I'm stuck in reality and it pretty much sucks, most of all because of the blissfully ignorant not pulling their fair share while trying to get government to loot the hell of other people and shower "fair share" onto themselves.

The whole scenario is just sick.

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 08:13 | 3449284 Random
Random's picture

Somehow i am of the opinion that the millionaires and the billionaires are not the problem (well, i am sure of it). I am more concerned about the trillionaires, quadrillionaires and octillionaires.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:11 | 3447860 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

What Wealth Tax? The 55% when one tries to sell.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:37 | 3447905 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

Gold is great because its not loud, the fucking FRNS in your bank account rat you out.

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 10:03 | 3449726 TruthHunter
TruthHunter's picture

"Buy gold, and hold it quietly."

Or buy Gold and take it canoeing.

Or stage a break in...same with guns and ammo.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 19:48 | 3447826 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

... and that should signal the end of big government. But will it.

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 00:01 | 3448599 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Before it collapses, there will be tyranny in a desperate attempt to hang on to power. There is too much money at stake for them to roll over

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:26 | 3447889 JJ is Waiting
JJ is Waiting's picture

"... there is enough wealth in homes and private assets across the Mediterranean to cover bail-out costs..."

 

What more does anyone need to hear before moving their assets to somewhere or into something safer?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:34 | 3448037 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Yep. He's proposing that the govt of Italy, or Spain, or Luxembourg FIRST empty the bank accounts of private citizens, and then start seizing their homes and jewelry to pay back what politicians stole and socked away in Grand Cayman and Zurich.

Time for me to get my asset outta here.

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 00:28 | 3448651 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Reporter:  "Willie, why do you rob banks?"

Willie Sutton:  "Because that's where the munny is!"

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:49 | 3448081 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

These machinations are similar to plea bargaining.

In the end, the dupes will gladly accept a tax that is half as bad as what was first proposed.

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 10:56 | 3450046 daxtonbrown
daxtonbrown's picture

Where's Hitler when you need a go-to guy to efficiently expropriate wealth?

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 15:30 | 3451954 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

FORWARD SOVIET!  PRAISE TO MIGHTY MARX, HAIL LENIN, OUR MOMENT HAS ONCE AGAIN APPEARED. (for the umpteenth time) WE WILL TAKE THE WEALTH OF THE BOURGEOISIE FOR THE PEOPLE!

 

with quite a bit for ourselves, don't tell anyone...

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:53 | 3447562 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Now comes yet another housing crisis.

Good job, guys.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:55 | 3447565 max2205
max2205's picture

Barry onto one gets more than 300k over year

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:56 | 3447566 Hulk
Hulk's picture

The shit we are witnessing is truly stunning...

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:44 | 3447918 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Well said, Hulk. I think we are coming to the natural endpoint of the "nice" collectivist State. In doing all the good things for all the good causes and deserving people the limit is being reached. The large bureaucratic ubiquitous State is collapsing of it's own weight. The limited genius of the central planners, the ability to promise more than tax for the promises and the attempted usurpation of human nature are about to implode. They implode when the State begins to use naked force and confiscation to do all the "good" things it has promised. It must become evil to distribute good things. This is the devil's orginal bargain, "Do whatever I say and I will give you whatever you want." The Devil rules this bargain and he always has in human history.

This process is going to be painful and my best guess is that governments will not change the course. Collectivist centrally planned governments tend to like each other more than their own people. Nationalism and can be a partial defense if governments seek their own. The rest is up to the "people".

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:01 | 3447960 new guy
new guy's picture

I feel like I'm trapped inside of a Three Stooges movie!

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 15:37 | 3451989 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Three Stooges movie...

 

How dare you, Reactionary?  You misunderstood Premier Kruschev when he stated before the UN: "WE WILL BARRY YOU!"

Do not besmirch the Fathers- Lenin, Mao, Fidel

And as Shemp? Our own Barry Otero.  Fascism is just an antithesis leading to the glories of the thesis of the STATE!

FORWARD SOVIET!

 

I'm getting a woody here! 

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 04:33 | 3448856 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

For sure, Hulk, I have been flabbergasted over and over again by the stunning surprises of events which have barely any precedents, that seem to dog pile on top of each other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt2ezDsGz0w

Large Widespread Cutoff of Supply Chains Coming-Jim Willie


Towards the end of that 15 minute audio recording, it states what I had already been thinking, which is that we could expect some MF Global style suprises to be mulitplied by some Cyprus style surprises.

I.e., things which are relatively unprecedented, and were not supposed to happen, within the way that the world was supposed to be, HAVE happened ... and NOW that those unprecedented things Have Happened, they are THE PRECEDENT for the future, and will probably gang up together, to end up being multiplied by each other.  Metaphorically, things which are twice as crazy as ever before, and other things which are also twice as crazy as ever before, WILL BE MULTIPLIED TOGETHER, and out will come things which are four times crazier than anything before! Basically, we are inside the runaway triumph of force backed frauds on an exponential growth curve, whereby the collective social insanity keeps on doubling and doubling, ever faster than before.

I would say we have to go with these developments, in the sense that the world IS operated through systems of organized lies, operating organized robberies.  Almost everything worth robbing has already been robbed, or soon will be ... Realistically, there are no solutions to this other than ever more robberies.  As the established systems accelerate their robberies, there are no longer going to be any remedies except more real robbery, to attempt to evolve better dynamic equilibria between those rates of runaway social robberies.

There will have been so much runaway social robbery, for so long, that only more real, radical robberies might remedy what will have been caused to happen by the previous systems of runaway robberies. ... I expect that we will continue to be shocked and stunned beyond our current ability to imagine the magnitude of those social storms. It looks like the world is pumping itself up to have social hurricanes, like never before. That shit we will be witnessing is going to be even more stunning.  We are going to have no real choice, other than to go with that, praying that we might survive through those events!


Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:55 | 3447567 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Looks like gold is going to rebound faster than anticipated.  "Paging 5 Wise guys, Mr. Bernanke holding for you on line 1..."

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:17 | 3447634 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

I really hope it will jekyll. I admit, they scared the bejesus out of me last week.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 19:05 | 3447739 PeakOil
PeakOil's picture

If you're not on margin and don't need to trade it to survice, just chill.

What fundamentally has changed? NOTHING!! If anything, the risks of NOT owning Gold are increasing daily. Get your wealth out of the Matrix before it becomes "rehypothicated" and out of reach.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 19:37 | 3447813 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Abraxas, 

Go to JimSinclair Mineset, he has a link to a good summary of how to manipulate the gold market.  It's really helpful to understand what they are doing it with (Paper) and what they do not have (Metal).  Good luck to you.  

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:07 | 3447974 Hulk
Hulk's picture

You need to have patience here. The FED is done, its just a question of time now...

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 10:08 | 3449772 TruthHunter
TruthHunter's picture

 "The FED is done"

but still in the oven with the heat on...

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 19:51 | 3447832 petolo
petolo's picture

How can it? Goltman Saks said the bull market in gold is over. Fucking Jew Bastards!

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:55 | 3447948 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

What Goldman Sachs said was "You should sell gold at this juncture, and we'll take the other side of that trade."  It's called the Stolper Ploy.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 22:26 | 3448276 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Ah, thanks for the technical term.  I thought they called it mupnipulation.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:49 | 3447933 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I agree it should, but it doesn't. My theory is that the ability and proclivity of governments to wreck economies and cause deflation outweighs the gold appreciation forces.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:32 | 3448027 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Bite your tongue! If it drops, we get to BTFD, and keep stacking.

Unless you're desperate and need to swap for fiat.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:59 | 3447569 Fubared
Fubared's picture

And to add to the creative German politics these days, new party launched today aiming at Germany leaving the Euro(German language):

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/anti-euro-parteitag-der-altern...

Edit: language clean up...

/R

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:58 | 3447575 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

this is why there was no need for a plan B. 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:59 | 3447578 SpanishGoop
SpanishGoop's picture

And they needed five wise men to come to the conclusion that there will be a "wealth tax" in the future.

Why did it take so many men, i could have told them that.

 

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:24 | 3447883 Agent P
Agent P's picture

Probably a union requirement.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:42 | 3448061 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Similar work rules to a Puerto Rican music video, eh?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:59 | 3447584 Albertarocks
Albertarocks's picture

All the more reason to expect the US bond market to become even more attractive (at least to Europeans) in the months ahead (and maybe even 'years' ahead).

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:05 | 3447969 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

In other words, the USA should experience negative nominal rates across the entire yield curve.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:01 | 3447585 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Or those nations that get into trouble could tell the ECB to get bent on the loans they guaranteed.  They could say something like:  "We regret we will be defaulting on these loans, but the nature of the bailout required of us would leave us little economy from which to draw tax revenues to ever repay you.  In short, we can default now or default later.  We choose to keep something of our economy in functioning order and so it will be a default now.  Sorry.  And, of course, see you in Davos next year!"

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:01 | 3447591 dwkeck
dwkeck's picture

The people and institutioins that made bad loans and investments should just lose out, not be reimbursed by anyone else - rich or poor.  Thats why they earn returns in excess of the risk free rate!

Wonder how they'll determine what is wealth and what are assets?

 

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:12 | 3447625 macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

Wonder how they'll determine what is wealth and what are assets?

 

 

From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.

Karl Marx

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:34 | 3447673 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

I NEED me a nice catamaran sailboat.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 19:14 | 3447767 negative rates
negative rates's picture

supersize it.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:13 | 3447861 snr-moment
snr-moment's picture

To whoever asked who owns Rio Tinto minings different thread other day...

it's the Rott-shilts.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:37 | 3447677 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

If you own anything other than the clothes on your back, you are wealthy. If you earn enough that you are not on welfare, you are wealthy. 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:34 | 3448041 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

And look at the birds or the animals in the field, does the Lord not provide for them? ~ Jesus. The Original Socialist.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:59 | 3448111 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

I have to disagree with that statement that Jesus was a socialist.  Jesus' parable described the virtue of effort by employees and rewards based on merit.

 

The Parable of the Bags of Gold from Matthew chapter 25:

14 “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. 15 To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag,[a] each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16 The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. 17 So also, the one with two bags of gold gained two more. 18 But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.

 

19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five bags of gold. See, I have gained five more.’

 

21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

 

22 “The man with two bags of gold also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two bags of gold; see, I have gained two more.’

 

23 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

 

24 “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’

 

26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

 

28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

 

 

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 00:02 | 3448606 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Charity is not forced by threats of violence or prison

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 01:05 | 3448711 Cardinal Fang
Cardinal Fang's picture

"And look at the birds ... does the Lord not provide for them? ~ Jesus."

Ah yes, this rejoinder always inspires me:

"Yeah, but he doesn't throw it into the nest"....

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:00 | 3447593 rebelscum1967
rebelscum1967's picture

Warm up the Panzers.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:01 | 3447847 Richard III
Richard III's picture

Biodiesel is too expensive these days, and a Tiger II consumes approximately two gallons per mile.

May we recommend a company of dragoons instead ?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:03 | 3447594 ekm
ekm's picture

I've said it, I am saying it and I will say it over and over and over and over:

 

There is no more middle class. This is elite raiding elite.

For anybody who thinks that elites are some kind of group that get along very well, this should be an eye opener. 

There isn't any elite solidarity. After squeezing people's blood, they are killing each other now.

 

And by ELITE, I do NOT mean bonafide businessmen or businesswomen who have PRODUCTIVE businesses. These people deserve their money.


By ELITE KILLING EACH OTHER I mean the 'useless elite', the financial elite who got rich by getting the first use of freshly printed money. Their only job is squeeze blood from others, rich or poor, not produce something useful to somebody else.

 

Enjoy the show, if you like horror shows.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:06 | 3447607 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

considering my astronomical property taxes go up every year I am starting to realize the water in my pot is a little warmer than i previously considered.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:11 | 3447614 ekm
ekm's picture

They understand there's nothing more to squeeze from you and others, but their derivative bet losses have to be paid.

Hence, they are raiding each other.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:34 | 3447667 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I wonder why GS or JPM etc has not been the first one to be massively exiting the equity market. if these guys were out to devour each other I'd make sure I was not the one left holding the bag.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:42 | 3447689 ekm
ekm's picture

They can't. Seth Klarman called it a Roach Motel: You can get in, you can't get out.

And of course, they didn't have the money to buy them, they simply leveraged what they had by 1000 times or so, thus creating a bet, literally creating a bet.

 

Best thing I've ever read about how finance works, from Seth Klarman:

If you buy a security to sell it to a greater fool, if there are no greater fools remained, then you are the greater fool.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:00 | 3447957 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

He who exits first exits best. That is the beginning of all stampedes.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:08 | 3447971 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

"I wonder why GS or JPM etc has not been the first one to be massively exiting the equity market"

Fonz, they probably already are. Remember the 2008 crude oil spike to $147? Goldman began that with an analyst call for $200 crude, when WTIC was near $80. They worked with Swiss energy-trading firm Vitol in unreported dark pool trading, buying through multiple bourses until they got the upward momentum going. They took profits as oil soared, and by the time it hit the peak their longs were largely closed out and they'd gone short. Goldman lost no money on the subsequent collapse of WTIC from $147 to under $40.

With these giant commercials, it's net exposure that counts. They don't have to unload masses of Dow stocks to be "exiting". All they have to do is make sure their effective short exposure (naked short sales, futures, put options, etc) dwarf their long exposure. Net-net, they're out of the market.


Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:11 | 3447988 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Additionally, they are the market.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:18 | 3448003 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

The crude example makes excellent sense in the context of their recent gold call. This time they are sparking a massive selloff in gold as they are accumulating at these levels.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:23 | 3448010 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

"as they are accumulating at these levels"

Exactly. Sinclair has said for years "The people you think are holding gold down will be the ones who profit most when they finally allow it to rise to its free-market level."

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:40 | 3448056 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Exactly.

They know more than most that gold is money, a tangible asset...everything else, is window dressing or credit(s) as in the case of using credit to suppress value expressed in fiat terms.

And as we all know, credit & fiat are intangible ;-)

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:46 | 3448070 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Gold is in their name after all.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:52 | 3448089 akak
akak's picture

And Sacks.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:54 | 3448090 ekm
ekm's picture

Maybe, but maybe not.

In 2008 they could still mislead people.

Not now, I'd say.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:54 | 3448093 ekm
ekm's picture

Tell me about GS JPM and.......VITOL.

Please, some more info, link, gossip, rumor, ear to ear whisper,...anything, please.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:40 | 3447685 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

You are dead wrong. Most of those who were robbed in Cyprus were middle class. The elites and gangsters were given a heads up and transferred their money out of Cyprus. The middle class in America alone still have $17 trillion in retirement funds that needs to be stolen before the elites turn on each other. The same goes for Europe and Japan. 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:44 | 3447694 ekm
ekm's picture

As I said, that is peanuts. We are talking about 1.2 quadrillion in derivatives and there's nothing more to squeeze out of a non existent middle class, other then outright poverty.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:48 | 3447703 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

ekm how about they each look at their derivatives and call a truce with each other. just call it off.

sun tzu they won't confiscate in the U.S they will just cause a crash and follow it with an offer people can't refuse. they will give up that 17 trillion willingly.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:53 | 3447714 ekm
ekm's picture

Yes, I've read that part of the Bible called the Apocalypse.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:59 | 3447731 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Lol

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:02 | 3447964 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

This almost happened in 2009. If Bernanke had not reflated the Stock market as quickly as he did, it would have happened.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:58 | 3447726 ekm
ekm's picture

I'm not sure where you get your numbers, but the whole world gdp is 70 trillion.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:48 | 3448078 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture


December 20, 2012 --- Total U.S. retirement assets reached $19.4 trillion in third-quarter 2012, according to the Investment Company Institute (ICI).   ---

http://www.planadviser.com/Retirement_Assets_Reach_19T.aspx

 

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:58 | 3448108 ekm
ekm's picture

Thank you.

That's why I say all data is manipulated. That is "asset value", but God know what that means, because my friend........nobody is talking about liabilities.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 22:01 | 3448117 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

I hear you.  Still a nice juicy target for confiscation regardless of the exact "value".

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 22:14 | 3448201 ekm
ekm's picture

Even not counting liabilities, they can't get all of 19T. They'd steal let's say 10% which 1.9T, which is peanuts, IMO

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 22:31 | 3448299 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

At the current rate of decay, that would buy a few months, no?  /s   I'm thinking that they will step into it over some period of time and in the process get more than you're expecting.  

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 00:04 | 3448610 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

They'll just take your assets. The liabilities will still be yours.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:54 | 3448079 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

 

Certainly enough when invested in "safe, stable government bonds" to keep the game going for a time.

 

 

 

 

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:15 | 3447996 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin''s picture

There is a middle class and there will always be a middle class., even though Bernanke and the O'Bowel movement are making war against it (us).

 

 

 

Democrats have no interest in growing the middle class, whereas Republicans do.

 

 

Obamacare and QE  are classic examples of the O'Bowel Movement's war on the middle class.

 

 

Just remeber, the "Affordable Health Care Act" will now raise healthcare costs by 32% according to yet another of the Lesbian "Janets" appointed by the OBowel Movement

 

 Whgat HASN'T the Obowel Movement Lied About?  I have literally asked 1000 times and the only correct answer was "his pet turtle"......

Only idiots still think ' both parties are the same'

 

 

unless a 1.8 trillion dollar deficit is the same as Bush's THEN record deficit of 600 billion.....recall how the Natioanal Socialist Democrap media (NAZI) railed against that.....

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:22 | 3448008 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Back in 2003 Bush was getting updated by his generals in Iraq. During one particular update the general informed Bush that 3 Brazilian troops were killed that day in a skirmish. Bush looked up, his jaw dropped and he began to weep. He was inconsolable. After several minutes he looked up, and asked "how many is a brazzilion anyway?"

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:28 | 3448021 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Good one. I'd like to think that Bush was as dumb as people say he is. Chris Hedges said Obama is worse, because Bush was just a moron. I'm afraid that there was something more insidious at work than mere stupidity.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 22:02 | 3448121 ekm
ekm's picture

At least Bush stopped playing golf after Iraq invasion to show as if he was in charge.

 

Obama and Boehner do not even care to show off that they're clueless. They're both golf specialists and take vacation OPENLY very often and do not really care about anything. Clearly they're not in charge.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 22:15 | 3448212 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

That bothers you, too? It gives me the creeps to see Obama and Boehner out there golfing together and yukking it up on our dime. "Hey, we're working. We're coming together on a budget plan that will make government more efficient and distribute the tax burden more fairly. That is, from us to you sheep."

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 22:49 | 3448386 ekm
ekm's picture

It kills me. It shows that they have no clue and not the ones making decisions.

What kills me more, is that they don't care about it, they simply do not care if people understand they're not in control.

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 04:50 | 3448868 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Who fucking cares? Two chumps in suits can't fix this mess. Government is worthless, when are you fools going to understand this? This whole time those chumps in suits are giving you fools the run around and you actually believe they ever cared about you.

 

Fucking morons the whole lot of you.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:01 | 3447597 agent default
agent default's picture

One off my ass.  Once they open that door they will take everything step by step.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:29 | 3447651 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

yeah... funny other thing.

MANAGEMENT COPR.

It's another way to hide your wealth in Europe.
You create a company, put all your assets in it and rent it out to yourself for a euro.
When you die, you give the shares to your kids for free.

And taxes? Well... it's a company... with a turnover of 1 euro... with a few million in assets.

HAHAHAHA!!

DO THE POLITITCIANS REALLY THINK THEY CAN OUTSMART 200 GENERATIONS OF FRAUD?!?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 19:27 | 3447797 agent default
agent default's picture

Bull.  There is this thing called "beneficial owners" behind every company off shore and onshore.  It is basically they people who own more than 20% of the shares of the company.  No bank will open an account for a company without the beneficial owners names, including Switzerland any any other place you  care to mention. BTW where have you been reading this "Management Corp" crap?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:04 | 3447599 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

What zee Germans (if it really is the Germans) are actually doing is destroying the flow in systems.

 

I.e. they are destoying physical systems using monetary means.

 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_and_flow

 


No one could be that retarded but nice.

This is pure monetary malice.

We in non UK / GERMANIC  LAND will have to abandon cities ,towns and villages.

 

I think they call that sort of thing the end of civilization or something or other.............................

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:48 | 3447656 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Enclosure

Taking your lead, you merely substitute "public land" for "public finance". After QE, banks (and more importantly, their CC / credit divisions) come to see individual depositors as baggage, not the focus of their business. Thus, it's entirely logical to remove the "public" function of this, and treat it as a Sovereign State <> Bank issue. Let the Sovereign State deal with that side (which is ironic, given the Reagan history regarding small insurance outfits in the USA; but, of course, look at who is going under in the US banking system - another post); the easiest picture you can get of it in the USA is State back-stopping on private education loans. $1 trillion is back-stopped by the State; what's the middle man doing, apart from skimming cream in this instance? Woe betide any SME who runs in the black and doesn't require loans these days; this is simply a "polite" way of taking them off the books (as we've seen with Cypriot SMEs suddenly left thrashing with no liquidity). Same thing for "customers" who have terrible credit scores because they're not playing the system, and are responsible enough to spend-within-their-means.[1]

Substitute "autonomous" for "public", and you're getting closer, btw. The message is that "autonomy" is now a Private given (i.e. you must be shorn there), otherwise you're a Sovereign State problem (where your autonomy is also given, but by different people).

I bothered to try to work through just what the hell was going on with the EU and the USA in my head last night (even working through the Marvin angles of "evil Marxists" or "new species ensuring destruction of old species" seriously), and the conclusions weren't pretty. The question of whether or not they're being designed [*muahahah* Illuminati / Aliens / Cthulhu] or merely adaptions / reactions / interplay of the way the system functions are largely irrelevant at this point.

 

Site on Escraches, Spanish major issues with mortgage debts & likely flash point for the EU in the next 3 months. [Via Metafilter]

 

 

[1] The argument has been made that "you need to play the system for the system to evaluate you so the system works". i.e. You need to relate <> with the system to obtain decent credit. This is fine in theory, but 2008 housing crisis et al precisely show the weaknesses and outright untruths of this. Your credit score is a measure of what $/£/E can be skimmed each month, nothing more, at this point.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:04 | 3447602 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"The ECB study found that the “median” wealth in Cyprus is €267,000..."

If a bank or government tortures a statistic long enough it will admit to anything.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:05 | 3447605 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Common German people are indeed not so wealthy but the figures of alleged German 'low wealth' are misleading

In Germany a lot of the homes are owned by the public sector, and Germans rent them for a reasonable price ... the government thus holds a lot of the wealth instead of private citizens, but the citizens are 'living well' still ... it is just a different system ... a complex mix of public-private wealth not easy to compare to other countries

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:31 | 3447655 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

I agree with everything you said. Just add the insane tax burden in Germany and you got the total package. Income taxes are 45+%. VAT is 19%. The Western parts are still paying solidarity taxes for the East (former GDR). Capital gains, interest and dividends are taxed at 25% regardless of wage income and the amount of capital gains, interest or dividends. That flat tax is destroying incentives for investments by middle class people. The only low taxes are property taxes.The really well to do people have either left the country or offshored their wealth. The choice between the Eurexit and a permanent transfer union adds another defacto tax burden. All in all just a wonderful world.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:45 | 3447688 Wolferl
Wolferl's picture

Income tax in Germany starts at 15 % above 8000 Euro income for a single person, 16.000 Euro for a couple, not 45%. Below that it´s ZERO. Every German pays that solidarity tax not just western Germans. Income from capital gains, interests or dividends is NOT taxed with 25% regardless of your income. Guess you have no clue about German tax laws at all.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:46 | 3447664 Wolferl
Wolferl's picture

Spot on. German renters actually "own" their homes if they live there for a longer periode, since the law protects them. And it´s even better than really owning it, since the landlord has to take care of the property but isn´t allowed to raise the rent at will. This is something hard to understand for non Germans.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:08 | 3447611 Youri Carma
Youri Carma's picture

"The End Of The Beginning" http://youtu.be/aPMw6vuhV-4#t=2m2s

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:11 | 3447616 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

We already have a Wealth Tax on Real Estate, it is called Property Taxes.  Yet, there has never been a Wealth Tax on Stock Ownership.

Yes, I think they should equal things out and Tax Stock Ownership the same way they Tax Real Estate Ownership.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:21 | 3447637 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Even better, have property taxes structured like stock ownership taxes.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:35 | 3447666 booboo
booboo's picture

Holy shit, now they even got you slaves arguing over how many different ways you should be beat. I guess that is a win in their column.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:58 | 3447729 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Dude, since there are no stock ownership taxes, I am advocating no property taxes.  Comprehend much?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 19:29 | 3447799 booboo
booboo's picture

Dooooooood............there is a tax embedded in your stock ownership; or do you think they transfered that "ownership" free of charge?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 22:32 | 3448305 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Broker fee? Maybe, but there is no tax to HOLD a stock.

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 04:55 | 3448869 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

It also doesn't do much for you to just hold it.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:57 | 3447953 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

Actually, there is. Some States levy an "intangibles tax" on all assets and property. It includes stocks, bonds, jewelery, books, furniture, gold, etc.....

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:12 | 3447619 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

'the bond ghoul commeth'

the 'rothschild's etel' bankroll governments, who in turn control their individual central bank[s]-- therefore the 'rothschild's etel' control (via basel) all the world government's  central bank's... they care less about internal politics or ideologies, but only their return on capital, period!

the failure to pay-up or renege on a obligation of debt will sooner, rather than later, find your country's government wholly responsible for the actions of their central bank, thusly they suretly will soon cease to exist?!

a war will ensue, be it civil or an exogenous event, but the 'bond ghouls' will get their 'pound-of-flesh'!

jmo     

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:13 | 3447623 SpeakerFTD
SpeakerFTD's picture

I realize that this is not the choice under discussion, but if I had to choose in principle between a wealth tax and an income tax, I would choose the wealth tax.    It has never made sense that we tax  a man's labor rather than his assets, especially since the wealthier man benefits more from a stable society than a poor man as he has more to protect.  

Replace the income tax with a flat asset tax, and you'd have decades of 5%+ GDP growth.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:30 | 3447653 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

-1  I had to sign in to address this idiocy.  5% growth..  Still thinking like a fiat expansionist, where 'growth' = bankster looting?  And what is wealth but savings?  Where would control freaks draw the line between labored savings and casino windfalls?  Whose business it is to even consider doing so?!

How about this; zero fucking government supported by zero fucking taxes. The only minimal tax that should ever exist is a small consumption tax to fund domestic defense.  With ~zero government that 'wealth' will want a return, and there is no better return than entrepenuership when the system is honest and non-inflationary.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 19:21 | 3447783 SpeakerFTD
SpeakerFTD's picture

Your fantasy land is even more fantastic than mine.   My fantasy world only supposes that the rich would agree to an equitable approach to taxation.  Your fantasy world supposes they would also relinquish their power.

My notion is simple.  Set the income tax to zero.   The current net worth of the U.S is somewhere around $90 trillion.   So the 2 trillion-ish in revenue could be replaced by a 2% wealth tax.   That sounds like a lot, and it is, but with no income tax, wealth levels would grow much faster.    With the value of labor suddenly increased substantially, you would see a lot more labor, and a significant bump in GDP.  I don't think my 5% target is all the crazy.   Not to mention, that with the rich paying the bulk of the tax rather than the aspiring middle class, you would see attitudes change about the usefulness of runaway government spending.

Of course, I also realize that in our world we would inevitably end up down the slippery slope with BOTH an income tax and wealth tax.    But that doesn't change the fact that an income tax is the worst approach.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 22:07 | 3448149 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

So then I could spend 100% of my gross income on strippers without having to pay any taxes?

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 04:57 | 3448871 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Your notion is delusional. There is no we in this conversation, there is just you telling me that I have to hand over what I worked for because you have sand in your damn vagina.

 

What is ZH coming to when morons like you are allowed to run around uncontested spouting your shit?

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 20:14 | 3447867 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

You are simply brilliant. So my 85 year old mother-in -law living on her 100 acres she paid $30,000 for in 1960 must pay a wealth tax on it. Since its now worth $600,000 and she lives on a small pension and SS how do you propose she do this? Ah yes, I see.... she is to sell her assets to pay for the tax! Therefore her money and property are confiscated and transferred to the government for redistribution. You obviously have no real wealth to be taxed or you wouldn't suggest such a ridiculous idea.

Miffed;-)

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:39 | 3448049 akak
akak's picture

But I'm sure that Paul Krugman would ask, what right does your greedy mother have to hoard all that land for herself?  I mean, it's simply not fair!  We all have to make sacrifices for the good of society.  Besides, she didn't create that land --- somebody else did that.  If she sells her land, just think of all the good that would result from the injection of that money into the economy!  That is what she should really be focusing on, not her own selfish interests.

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 00:43 | 3448682 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Of course. This is the modern day version of Natzi Germany's final solution. People focus on the raiding of 401k as the wealth transfer but I don't think so. Any movement of a 401k is a taxable event. Cashing out is 50% at best. 401ks are just income not wealth. Now our family farm is well established with lots of water and pasture for hundreds of animals. It could feed many people if in full operation. The only way to extract money from it is to tax it or cause it to be sold. There it sits , a great prize for them to pluck. No wonder Krugman hate gold so much. It's the only hope to hide wealth from those who are hell bent to take it away. Fuck them all I say.

Miffed;-)

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 21:17 | 3448006 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Replace the income tax with a flat asset tax,

Think harder. Income taxes are not what is holding back growth in the US economy. It's debt, at every level: public, corporate, and private individuals.

Let's try again: "Replace income taxes and wealth taxes with a consumption tax." This reincentivizes both producing and saving wealth. It deters excessive and ostentatious consumption and discourages the aggregation of debt for unproductive purposes.

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