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Gold, Silver In Asian Liquidation Mode As China Growth Slows More
UPDATE: Spot Gold $1426 (from $1564 highs Friday)
As Asia opens to the bloodbath that occurred in precious metals on Friday in the US, it would appear that more than a few traders got the 'tap on the shoulder'. Shanghai futures are limit-down and spot gold and silver prices are plunging once again as we suspect forced margin-calls and the raising of cash (to cover extreme variation margin - or capital reserves) needed in JGB positions, as we explained here. Liquidation is certainly the theme of the evening - investors are selling JGBs (6th day in a row of multiple-sigma moves in long-dated Japanese bonds 30Y +56bps off its post-BoJ lows at 1.60%!), selling Japanese stocks (Nikkei -128 pts, second biggest down day post-BoJ), selling US Treasuries (futures down), selling gold and silver (gold spot down over $100 from Friday's highs), and despite selling JPY early (retracing 30% of the weakness post-BoJ), JPY is practically unchanged (jerking lower only on the US futures open and Asian equity open) - it seems Mrs.Watanabe is struggling and unwinding some her excessively short JPY and long NKY positions.
Gold down over $100 from Friday's highs...
Which takes spot gold back to the 38.2% Fib retracement of the most recent low to high swing...
Tokyo COMEX Gold -9.2% (limit down) - looks like a giant post-BoJ roundtrip...
Silver ugly too...
Another day, another 4-sigma move in JGBs...
and post the China data...
- GDP Miss
- Retail Sales Miss
- Industrial Production Miss
- Fixed Asset Investment Miss
which stands in the face of the 'survey-driven' PMI data...
... everything is red - JGBs down, Japanese stocks down, US Stocks down, US Treasuries down, Gold and Silver down, Copper down, Oil down, Rubber futures limit down
Charts: Bloomberg
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Holy shit, now it's 3.99. http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/products/162421/2013-1-oz-american-silve...
That coin was 2 over spot 45 minutes ago.
glad you saw that. i was about to post that link myself. wasn't sure if you were purposely being disingenuous. kudos.
still not sure they ever had eagles for spot plus two dolares though. buffaloes maybe...
Funny if you want to sell your ASE they will gladly take them off your hands for $25.59
yeah, my unofficial craigslist indicator suggests there's plenty of demand and little supply out there right now. been the case for the four years i've been looking. probably more so right now.
For those that don't know, Gainseville Coins IS NOT IN FUCKING GAINESVILLE!
I was in Gainesville a few weeks ago with my wife looking for something do to, and I'm like "hey lets go to GAINESVILLE COIN" duh.
Florida or Georgia?
Florida. I knew Gainesville coin was in Florida, right state wrong city!!
Gainesville is full of students and lefty professors so I guess no one there buys coins anyway!
It's just north of Tampa. Easy drive for me. May run in there today. When I picked up an order a few weeks ago, there were 6+ people in there. I'd never seen more than one other person there in all my other visits. It'll probably look like Wally World on the 1st today.
are you really mao's dog? kidding. i always assumed lutz was close to gainesville without checking a map. it's in the tampa area. doesn't make them a fraud. perhaps the owner is from there.
Bullshit.
Many online sites have shortages of certain silver bars.
$4 dollar premiums now.
Anyone had any luck placing orders online?
I just placed an order with Gainesville, and it was accepted- but it was nothing more than a token order. Bad timing for me- no dry powder... I just ordered a single Silver Philharmonic to join the party- and if it works out how I suspect it will, that'll be worthwhile all by itself. Even a single week's worth of groceries is better than nothing, right?
Had a huge friggin' premium on it, though- $4 above spot- usually, they're 2nd best in terms of price. Provident often beats them, but I didn't care for thier ship times and product quality- Gainesville is usually a week faster, and Provident sort of, kind of screwed me on tubes of mercs- only sort of, kind of, because they did not lie about the condition, but some of the culls they included looked like they had been through a wood chipper, and Gainesville never pulled that on me.
99 cent over spot for silver rounds at Provident as of right now.
Fire-sale price and standing for delivery, yeah, this could kill COMEX in both silver and gold.
Of course we know what really happens is they settle in cash if they can get it, or pull some MF Global shit.
It will be the last time they can do that, though.
Think of all the bastards out there who don't even know this is going on right now.
Poor Joe Sixpack
(Literally)
Exactly.
Let's hope he at least mined a bitcoin during it's 15 minutes of fame.
think of all the people that know its happening, arent perpared, and cant do shit about it :\
like me
If it makes you feel any better, I had over a hundred oz of silver- and it got eaten up in the last year. I wanted to hold it, but my kids had to eat, and there wasn't much choice. Luckily, a couple dozen oz. got sold to a friend who (claims) that he'll sell them back at any time for what he paid for them. I'm not going to hold him to it- but if he wants to do it, I won't stop him.
Right now, the stash is very sickly and sad, and inflation (especially in utilities) isn't letting me bulk it back up, so I feel your pain.
At least I still have a gallon jug of nickels- if nothing else, Kyle Bass and I can use them to drink away our troubles some weekend.
You should trade in dollars for nickles and copper pennies. Have your kids sort out the pre-82's as a project.
No, but a million people loading up on physical in one day might.
Yeah. It COSTS $24.50 to "recover and process" silver. It goes below that, why would any mine produce at an artifical level. Would you? I would stop production.
Couple this with the Mine landslide on April 10 and a SIGNIFICANT EVENT IS OCCURRING!!!!
I hpope a lot of JPM Silver Paper Whizards are committing sucicide tonight.
not sure what you mean by your last sentence. jpm is short. they're the ones pushing others off the ledge and smiling while they're doing it.
That price has broken.
It's now cheaper to buy physical silver than it is to produce it.
There are still a LOT of institutions who have large gold holdings to liquidate.
Here's my chicken/egg question: After commodities complete their crash, will they be low enough to usher in a new era of economic growth? Of does the crash in commodities foretell a deflationary spiral?
Just this is enough to blow up the COMEX.They lost 15% of their inventory just through Feb-March, and that was with AU basically $200 higher.
I wonder if this move is to protect JPM's shorts somehow. Someone somewhere is blowing up, that's for sure. I'll be calling my dealer in the morning, but something tells me he's not going to have a 100oz available.
I agree A... I'd be more worried if silver was stalled out at $28.00. Now that the cartel has showed their desperation it's time to back up the truck for physical. C'mon Monday!
Thats right.
Everything...and I mean EVERYTHING would be laid bare for the world to witness. The "farce of law", the trust of regulation...what a shit show...lol. It would be quite a show...but it won't happen.
This is shaking down the traders, fiat revenue generation (taxes & commissions)...nothing more, nothing less.
Maybe THEN I'll take one of those home equity loans the bank keeps blabbering about and back up the truck.
Well, at least we will know by Tuesday. And, I've been wondering about this for a long time, so I look forward to seeing the conclusion.
Sounds like i'm buying moar silver!!!
What they did to Bitcoin was just practice. Now they're going for the real things...
You people don't stop do you?
~~~
What 'THEY' did to bitcoin?... For a whole fucking month all I heard about from you fools was that THEY could not touch bitcoin... It was impossible...
THEY didn't do anything to Bitcoin. It's just VERY thinly-traded. A $2 million sell order came through, plus the shitty exchange got DDOS'd. That killed the price all the way from $265 down to $50. Now trading around $95.
Funny. Gold/silver always gets trashed but stock markets, NEVER.
Never say never.
Despite this PM pound-down, I think the paper Ponzi still has some juice left in it. Long weekend of 4 July should be crunch-time....That's when TPTB will bail out of paper. Thereafter gold/silver will rise rapidly.
word. say that again
Despite this PM pound-down, I think the paper Ponzi still has some juice left in it. Long weekend of 4 July should be crunch-time....That's when TPTB will bail out of paper. Thereafter gold/silver will rise rapidly.
Uh...2008?
Nice to see a thread without a fictitious Krugman and people responding to his baiting posts.
Wish people would move past engaging in that they way we treat engaging in the red/ blue political bs.
Cheeky Bastard was smarter than all of us and I miss him..
It's past his bedtime.
and i've been drinkin... ok.
fuck it!- G'Night all!
That's a fu**ing revelation.
this is posted at brotherjohns...it seems to be pretty informative
http://goldtrends.net/FreeDailyBlog?mode=PostView&bmi=1267250
He's too busy with his hands greased with masterbation lube while looking at the PM charts.
You just sucked all the fun out of the party.
Come on, its the only time the peasants can pull out the clubs and pitchforks and poke the monster.
(And, by the way, cheeky bastard didn't have a problem going after some people. I still have a few tire tracks left from when he tried to run me over.)
ES vs PM's, polar extremes!
Damn! Sell your gold now, Cyprus. LOL
hold on to your krugmans,oops i meant ass! going to be a wild ride!
Awwww, who the fuck is buying? Just take this absurd clown show to zero and get it over with...
Only fools sell at this paper price.
Funny you mention that...
There was a lady selling 200oz of silver last week at one of my local bullion houses. She was not shy about taking a big loss but was "freaking-out" about the price. What a shame...
Then I had a quick conversation with the owner of another establishment, a LCS, and specifically asked him if the Futures/COMEX price is driven down to $200/oz on gold will he still be selling at that price? He said absolutely, he makes his money on turnover and not price, he said people are selling all the time. I wonder why each time I've gone in there for a gold Maple, all they have is 5 or 6 in a plastic bag in their safe..? Anyway, I then asked him where was turnover going to come from if people that bought gold at $1550 didn't want to sell at $200, from where would his turnover be derived? <blank stare>
There are fools everywhere, there's one born every minute and two born every minute to do them.
This is beautiful in the outrageousness of its wild deformity.
$25 was my buy price for silver. Holding off on pulling the trigger for over a year.
well played. hope "holding off" can now be replaced with "held off".
The old parlor tricks still work on me. If the intent was to hit this market hard to keep the marginal investor out, it's worked on me. PMs seem best when they're boring because I'm using them as an alternative to holding cash in a bank. Sideways market is just as good as an up market in my opinion. Bear market is just no good.
Just placed an order for 120Toz (Ag) for less than my breakeven price, WhatsaMatta U?
Cocoa + 1.43%
Orange Juice + 0.73%
Sugar + 1.18%
Deflation only in Gold and Silver..
Silver showing -8% decline? WTF?
The deflation will hit everything else in a few days. Gold and Silver are the barometers. S***S about to get real!
$40 WTI? $2 gas? One can hope.
$40 WTI and there IS no gas.
It costs that much to get oil out of the ground these days. Some places it costs a lot more: deep water offshore, tight or 'shale', depleted or old oil producing regions, not to mention syncrude. All of those would be underwater @ $40.
Meanwhile, Saudia and the rest would not sell as their marginal cost is + $100/barrel.
Be careful of what you wish for you might get it.
: )
Cocoa, OJ and sugar?
Try wheat, corn and beans. Getting trashed. Along with oil. THAT'S deflationary.
Buy low. This crash suits central banks who dislike competition, for they are monopolists, communists, socialists, old feudalists.
Good for the East buying. Bad for the West, betrayed by nazionists.
I will buy, and dislike CONgress for ruining the Republic, aided by its un-Federal no-Reserve Board of nazionists.
"V Bottom" where are you?
Japan is broke.
As is rhe USA.
The Trilateral Commission of nazionists made it so.
Very sadly, true. The Trilateral Commission made it so.
All countries are broke, they just aren't admitting it yet.
One lady in CNBC friday afternoon said 'Gold has no fundamental'. I think CME about to default on phys gold over weekend.
Raising margins avoids default.
Not if people are taking delivery. Margins don't matter if you are paying in full.
Agree with you, Quinvarius.
True, but they can settle in cash. At this price you'd be crazy to not take delivery, so I think this could lead to the default event.
Settling in cash won't be considered a default event, officially. But unofficially, yeah.
Margins should always be 100%. Fuck speculators.
Provident Metals looks like it is cementing its price for a 2013 ASE at 29.29. Hasn't budged for awhile despite downward movement and fluctuations.
25.85 (Friday spot) + 3 for "mixed years" is the best I can find locally and premium is bound to go up, too.
Buy the cheapest. It is all the same in the melt pot.
Most likely the stock market is going to have a black day tomorrow. You can't mess with people's margin accounts and expect them not to liquidate everything else too. It is all connected. And I don't think they are even going to be able to shake any gold back into the system with this.
You are correct sir! Backwardation still in place for both.
I suspect the breaking point for JPM was rapidly approaching and so we now have this. It won't last.
BitCoin Last price:$95.96000
Pfffft!... Fuck that ugly redheaded stepchild whose main exchange is subject to close, on a whim, by a single entity...
~~~
Hell ~ At least it take a few people to decide to BAN SHORT SELLING of stocks...
Deflation trade!
QEinfinity not doing anything to lift commodities. It's all Asia baby, they blow out into dust...The whole world is going to get it the neck.
Tight.
Gotta get the selling going so some central banks can buy it real cheap. Someone is on the other side of the trade buying. As the Europeans and US push gold down they will go in the open market and buy Germany's gold.
When Japan, The US Fed and the Europeans are printing like crazy it's the last chance to get it cheap.
...and when as many as possible have fled and/or been lured into the "safe haven" $US, we'll see what a blow-up really looks like.
Comex has less than five billion dollars worth of gold registered. Maybe this will prove to be the beginning of the end for the paper market on physical gold and silver.
Price of paper [and physical] is collapsing.
Supply of physical is nearly gone.
2 + 2 = 4.
Supply of physical is nearly gone.
On what planet? I see it all over here on Earth. Check Ebay, friend.
Maybe @ US $33.75 but not at spot + 1 or even 2.
Yeah I stand corrected. When I looked an hour ago the premiums were not that high. Guess there is heavy buying.
enormous buying friday with premium going out of sight.....THAT DOES NOT LIE about what's really happening in the bullion market
i like you hone stann
If the markets were crashing as hard as silver was, it would be a news story... but when only PMs crash, nobody gives a fuck.
Oh, this is going to be a news story. They're going to be hyping the shit out of the "gold crash" tomorrow morning in mainstream news.
When the phyzz price launches into the stratosphere, then they will be silent.
Nikkei bloodbath, down 1.17%.
Bloodbath. Please. Crash the market 10% a day for a week then we can talk. And not just the Japanese market. Crash the SP500 and the DOW... and make Bernanke have a heart attack with the bond market revolting...
I was sarcastic, stocks never dive much lately.
Yeah I get that.
Still, fundamentals don't matter anymore and haven't been for quite a while. Now the only thing that drives prices is... what the money printers think should go down or up. That's it. Whatever crashes or go up is a manipulation.
Just where the fuck are the PM circuit breakers ???
In Bart Chilton's hair dryer...
LOL !!!
that's f*cking funny right there. oh, the stories that thing must have...
Good point. There's always circuit breakers for everything BUT PMs...
Bitcoin doesn't have one. But the market (Mt. Gox) broke. So, I am hoping COMEX follows suit and break. We can hope, can't we?
let the fraud get exposed I say.
Sarah Palin, Bitcon, metals. All drop easily and quickly. Poor company for metals to be keeping.
Don't know what's happening or how it will end;
However,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3jYTMAHrxk
HUI's going to need more lipstick if things stay this way by US open tomorrow.
everything is plunging, that of course except for the u.s markets which will prob hit new record highs tomorrow despite terrible data out of china, because in the u.s everything is good these days, even bad is good.
all of asia is down very solidly, europe will prob be red, but the u.s will somehow be green, no matter how much it may plunge at open. it has become quite amusing.
In a real market, the DOW would give up 3000 points tomorrow and gold would go to 2000. And that would all be before 10am. The physical gold is draining out of the system now. Just a matter of time.
The exchange value of the dollar is threatened," Roberts says, "and if that collapses the Fed loses control over interest rates. Then the bond market blows up, the stock market blows up, and the banks that are too big to fail, fail. So it's an act of desperation because they've got to establish in people's minds that the dollar is the only safe place, it is the only safe haven, not gold, not silver, and not other currencies."
Never a dull moment with these markets. It's a spring clearance and gold is on sale, get it while it's still in stock.
Buying with both hands today!
Kito is aglow with schadenfreude; pants gathered around ankles, knees pressed together, whacking it with both hands.
@HONGCHA------no im not aglow at all, because everybody on this site is my compadre in the fight against the injustices that plague this world.....and in the end we all want the same thing.....for openness, fairness and prosperity to return to all who have been suffering under centralized stupidity.................
For this, a green and forgiveness for the tie. ;)
"because everybody on this site is my compadre in the fight against the injustices that plague this world.....and in the end we all want the same thing.....for openness, fairness and prosperity to return to all who have been suffering under centralized stupidity"...
~~~
Except, of course, if jew bankers, or, should I say, a [non]Federal [non] Reserve private banking system where the most prominent shareholders are jewish banking families have anything to do with anything...
Then it all becomes fuzzy...
with you on that. amen
Those who are smart enough to stack don't suddenly become dumb enough to liquidate in exchance for fiat.
The only way stackers will lose anything is if the gravitational force of the earth is diminished.
That won't effect me at all because I buy my PMs in grams. You crazy Americans and your ounces!
Sarcasm?
Sort of. I think a lot of people are unaware of the difference between force and mass. So 1 ounce on the moon weighs about 1/6 of an ounce but 1 kilo on the moon is still a kilo.
Just a little geek humor...
Pound-mass and pound-force are two different things.
From wikipedia:
"Usage of the unqualified term pound reflects the historical conflation of mass and weight. This accounts for the modern distinguishing terms pound-mass and pound-force."
personally I would rather get 30-40% more gold for my hard earned dollars, bought last time at 800, will probably get in this time around 1100 or so, but will wait maybe can get in at 1000 (my ideal price point). would be great to pick some silver up at 13-15 range dont think I will get lucky enough to pick more up at 10.
The right idea.
Well where are all my -1 now, been saying for a while when all the gold dealers preaching gold is under-priced that it was fair priced or expensive, hope 1 or 2 ppl listened and either sold or waited to buy, give it some time and get it cheap, I know I have been waiting for a few years to buy more as it clearly was run up a bit too far... esp with all the signs pointing to a recession of the global kind..
It was underpriced at 1925. I wouldn't confuse what is going on with price discovery. Someone gave GS 2000 tons at 1800 and said go to work.
dont listen to gold dealers, got to use some common sense and economics, they have been ignoring history and only looking at the money printing, and not looking at the big holes that were created by reckless banks and polititians. if you got a 10 trillion hole how much inflation will you get throughing 2 trillion in it? The fed lies about why its printing money as to not panic the public, the banks were completely fucked and should have went under, but they fed saved them and took most there shit assets onto the feds balance sheet, basically creating no money at all. (buying treasuries is different, but the amount bought so far is not enough to justify gold prices)
..... The banks won't be "completely fucked" until THE PEOPLE cut them off in favor of real assets. Just say no to Banking when you can.
I would not pull the trigger and buy silver or gold tonight. It is VERY rare to see a reversal of overnight negative PM price action in the daytime US sessions.
Besides, this gives all the talking heads all morning to parade in front of every camera they can find spewing their BS about how much Gold And Silver suck as an investment.
When negative Asia price action does reverse course and go positive in the US, it tends to do so in a window between 11:30 am up until the NYMEX close at 1:30 PM. So, if you have to buy and are looking to dip a toe and and start building a new stack, late morning may be your best time to do so.
On this shit storm, I am going to back the fucking truck up right before the stock market close when I feel the price action will be at it's lowest point for the day.
Good Luck, and whatever you do, don't buy a damn thing PM related on margin. This SOB is like trying to give a Bobcat a bath ....
Great stuff .... I'm sure the S&P will hit 1600 and the Dow 15000 on this.
Would not be surprised to see a pretty vicious recovery before the US open tomorrow
$5 over spot for Silver Maples on Apmex. Good grief.
Look calm the fuck down folks!
I should not have to be the one to tell you, but....
YOU CAN'T EAT IT!
So I suggest you gather yourselves together...pull it together people, and
send your gold to me!
Margin calls? No problem. Thats what reserves are for....
" The Stock Market " is out performing Gold ,Silver and Mining shares.... Yeah, right.
Makes perfect sense in the New Normal Ponzi Clusterfuck Nation, bad is good and worse is even better.
I love a fire sale.
What day this week best to buy some more Ag and Au?
With respect to Gold & Silver tanking, I don't think there would be near this slaughter if it were not for the formation of Fucking Gold & Silver ETF's !!!
1300 not low enuf. Patience, patience. When 90% of you folks on Zerohedge are so disgusted you are throwing in the towel, that's when I might consider buying. And probably not the yellow metal.
You're in the wrong fucking place if you're looking for people who'll throw-in the towel on the metals.
Time will tell.
Yeah yeah yeah.....schadenfreude is really cool. In 20 years I'll worry.
lmao. Perfect rebuttal/
How much is clean, potable drinking water worth to a person who is dying of thirst? To those that have always been able to turn the tap and receive clean water to drink, they have never thought about what they might do if all the taps stopped flowing. Their present normalcy bias is undermining their future selves.
Liberty is priceless. A lesson many have not learned from personal experience.... yet. A condition most here on ZH fortunately do not suffer from. We get it.
PMs, to the extent that they defend the life and liberty of the owner... are equally priceless. Owning physical with no leverage or counterparty risk of any kind. All other stores of wealth and value are not truly 'owned' by any individual in the absolute sense and therefore cannot be relied upon to protect life or liberty in extreme circumstances (like now).
"When 90% of you folks on Zerohedge are so disgusted you are throwing in the towel, that's when I might consider buying."
LOL...where you gonna get it?
I think some of the ZH crowd see 1300 as a crime. As if that's not double what it was 8 years ago. 100% return on 8 years. That's even up 50% since 2008.
I agree: wait for some people to get disgusted with the trade. Especially those who parked money into the ETFs these past few years and talk about how much gold or silver they own.
If all commodities fall and oil all the way down below $70, we may have Iran war coming. Obmao didn't play golf last trip to MidEast.