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Shanghai Gold Exchange To Hike Gold, Silver Margins
Adding insult to injury, the Shanghai Gold Exchange overnight announced that following the tumbling precious metal prices and limit down drop in early trading, it may raise trading margins for its gold and silver forward contracts. The SGE announced that should prices not recover by the end of the trading day (which they didn't), trading margins for the gold forward contract will be raised to 12 percent, while margins for the silver forward contract will be hiked to 15 percent, the exchange said in a statement on its website. Curiously, gold prices in China were up in early trading only to take a dramatic U-turn on Monday, reversing early gains to drop to a two-year trough once the Japanese pre-margining onslaught was unleashed on the market.
From the SGE (translated)
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cme next?
Let them bring it -- the paper pushers are raining havoc on physical premiums, last I checked @ www.comparesilverprices.com the average premium on 90% junk is in the ballpark 13% range -- unheard of
Meanwhile in Cyprus... http://img.ly/tx0F
shortage and price drop at the same time, welcome to disneyland!
It's all Greek to me...
at this rate all the sellers will soon be gone.
And then we start the next up leg with nothing but buyers...
Margin call.....and we don't take stawks bitchez.
Dow 16,000. Gold 850. Go ZH!!!!! ROFL!!!!
Buy phizz buy phyzz buy phyzz. LMAO!!!!!
We'll see who laughs last, non?
those who own phyzz don't get margin calls, they just take advantage of the lower prices. If you're not stacking at this point, you're a (fill in favorite pejorative term)
This looks like a parabolic move to the downside. We all know how parabolic moves to the upside end....
here's a silly projection inline with the current craziness, XAUUSD = $3000 by the end of may
You look like that Princeton dude...
"Douche" only has one d.
I would stack, but I've listened to you and every other ZH poster and BTFD at $1800, $1750, $1680, $1625, $1560, and $1500. No more fiat left to turn into gold.
Then you are sitting pretty. Cheers!
There is only one dip...that's the one you want to buy...
The zillion dollar question: when's a dip a dip and when it's not? Problem with dips is if you're aiming for the perfect one, you'll probably end up missing your shot, so what's a guy to do but take a shot in the dark and stick to your guns then?
That scenario sounds awfully familiar to 2008, and we all know how well that went. but hey... maybe this time is different.
i found this insightful...thoughts?
http://goldtrends.net/FreeDailyBlog?mode=PostView&bmi=1267250
Is there an anti-ZH ETF out there I can invest in?
SPY
Just buy some more FB shares Copper Top.
pods
Sure! Send a check to TeamDepends @ Disneyland...
GLD
Welcome to the magic world of central banking. Enjoy the ride while it still lasts.
Let 'em eliminate margin altogether. It won't matter. Just keep converting debtbux to physical. Those suckers in ETF's/COMEX. Trapped in a paper Ponzi nightmare from which they cannot escape.
"Let 'em eliminate margin altogether."
Let me tell you something, if I pay you cash, I expect on the spot delivery, and it better be polished. You turn COMEX to a cash market instead of the leveraged paper trade bucketshop it is today, reserves will be depleted within seconds. Not happening.
Soon "they" will have no choice in the matter. The guywires holding up the paper ponzi are trembling violently.
Dump and hike all you want, you fuckers. You're not going to stop me. I've already won.
If we hypothesize that this is being done to save JPM or maximize the take from small sovereigns, then yes, CME will be next.
But doing so will lower prices, which will blow up the CME.
So either the COMEX blows up or there's a part 2 here, which somehow allows COMEX to avoid delivery without anything resembling a default.
The other thing that occurred to me -- this is a bit out in left field -- is that the US and China have been in emergency talks about North Korea. What if a deal was made, and part of that deal was China not grabbing physical during this event, or not balking on failures to deliver?
Who defines delivery? Who defines default? Who can change the rules? If you disagree what is your course of action?
Markets are desirable as long as they function as desired by TPTB. When they don't, TPTB will adjust them or end them as needed.
The market is not going to save you, if TPTB want you.
CME already avoids delivering by FORCING longs to take cash at a small premium over spot rather then delivering. You can't FORCE the CME to deliver physical, even if you wanted to. The rules say they can pay a cash premium, rather than deliver, if they want to, and they are settling this way more and more often.
I am aware of this, but it gives the appearance of a default. If every stand-for-delivery contract gets cashed out instead of delivered, they lose their reason for existence. So there needs to be some alternative; MF Global is a good example of this, they took the heat for non-delivery (aka theft) rather than CME.
Short version: I think there's a hidden piece to this puzzle.
Long popcorn
You'll have to be very long.
As expected...
But, of course!
yeah... the price is just so high... good of them to get it even cheaper...
The FED is really giving it away to the foreign powers for free right now...
and nothing we can do about it.
China will become the next economic supperpower and reserve currency. By design.
As long as the commie dolla is backed by gold, we will use it. But we won't be happy about it one little bit.
??? ??
Wow. Gold is on sale.
The more you buy, the more you save.
Good buy signal
Good buy signal
DOWN goes Frasier!
been years since I've seen that expression
in spring of 09 almost daily
On the way to 100% margin?
That will happen only when the futures sentiment turn net long.
Raising margins now would force the shorts to cover.
A CME Margin hike would be bullish. Wont happen
Where everyone and his dog is piling-up on the short side, a margin call would be bullish and will not happen.
Pile on in Gold
What a dump. It looks like the paper markets have diarrhoea !
This is a pre-emptive strike for what is coming and it must be big.
Shit I’m out of cash to buy PMs but at a GSR>~60 it is time to switch from Gold to Silver.
Are you BTFD ?
This is a pre-emptive strike for what is coming and it must be big.
Yeah.....pretty big I'm thinking.
Strap in and hang on.
"Shit I’m out of cash to buy PMs"
PMs will only turn for good once the early adopters have sold a meaningful % of their PMs to pay bills. Its a long ways off..(and not a day you should look forward to in any case)
"Shit I’m out of cash to buy PMs"
Call your stock borker and tell him you want it back.
That could be the plan but the Chineese, Indian and Russian CBs will not have that problem.
My neighbour sold his gold to save his business. Now the business is gone and he is living on his credit which is almost maxed out.
Your neighbor owns 'Mt. Gox'?
think you're right, someone let the cat out of the bag that recovery isn't recovering, china slow, cyprus broke, FED out of bullets, payroll taxes increased in the states, deficits as far as the eye can see, PIIGS grumbling, England wants out of the EU, Germany ready to push countries overboard, Yen dropping like a rock, consumers tapped out, job creation 80k v.s 200k expected, oil down. Oh wait, all is well, we can print more money!
Yo soi BTFD. Hike that shit to 100%. Tits or gtfo.
We need moar tits (.)(.)
We need QEtits
Funny how margin goes up for things that goes down in particular gold and PMs, yet goes down for things that go up like Sh!t and Poos!
Also, circuit breakers only apply to down swings. Nobody ever walked onto an exchange and said "you know ... 10% upside in one day is enough, any more and we might be setting up a bubble, or a bad example for our kids on how to get rich quick"
That's because in the Ponzi world greed is good and fear of the loss your greed may experience is bad. After all, we ARE herd animals under those three piece suits.
You grow or you die. We're dying.
Ooh, kick em while they're down. I approve.
The wolves are definitely out in a pack this week.
Gonna give it another day or three before buying.
Caution! A few days is an eternity in this market.
Who knew that leveraged paper-gold speculators set the price of gold?
WHOCOULDANODE??
I'm thinking there's plenty of time to buy gold until 400 or so points come out of /ES. Idealy gold will hold the 1375-50ish lows while everything else gets whacked. The tell will be if gold holds just under the long term channel (technical break) in the face of the equity washout but I don't think there's any need to rush in just yet.
As mentioned here about a month ago, I wouldn't be surprised to see gold fall further, to around 1250, before stablilizing.
Of course, this is reminiscent of what happened to pm's in 2008........before other risk assets crashed.
Bubble popping!
Hopefully the prices at Walmart will follow suit.
Hell, maybe anything of value will now just be free.
Custom shop strats can be had under a thousand dollars used at the moment. Five years ago it was more like $1500. All markets are vomiting value. It takes intestinal fortitude to harvest from the filth.
Forget support levels and any other chart voodoo. This is a raid...Again.
Ben and Blythe will target psychological pain thresholds, 950 will come in a hurry. Buy or die are the options.
anyone who says this is a raid and implies ben and blythe are behind it cannot be taken seriously on anything else they say.. (in my opinion of course). its the adult equivalent of 'the dog ate my term paper!'
400 tons [on Friday] sold in a half hour right on long term support level...
~~~
Yeah ~ the dog ate my term paper...
I suspect the Fed has been bailing out JPM's derivative book for the last 6 months.
If the price of my grocery bill is any indication then I agree. $250 yesterday and didn't really even get anything. Fucking ridonkulous and this shit needs to end soon.
I used to eat well for 200 a month but I've lost track the past 5 years because my record keeping computer failed. I'm probably at 300 a month now. I also think I could survive on 150 a month if I gave up certain things.
Exactly. Not only is the price going up, but the quality and freshness continue to deteriorate. I can remember when my suburban neighbors who hunted deer proudly proclaimed how they donated their venison to charity to feed the hungry. I don't hear that much these days. I hear more talk about how their processor is so awesome and what a great a job they do, and what a great meal they had from their venison.
Here's my version of hunger in America
Margin call hikes will mean gold and silver will plummet further. $600 an ounce gold is becoming a reality.
The only guy on the planet that hasn't heard that Japan, the US, and Euroland are printing trillions in currency out of thin air.
The trick is to do it at the same time.....spend a little bit on hammering commodities......and pray.
No. A margin hike now would force the shorts to cover.
$600 per ounce would pretty much halt mine production
That would effect silver, of course, but the stock:flow (annual) of gold is something like 65:1... its price isn't determined by how much there is to sell, but by how many 'one ounce chits' the futures markets can manufacture out of each actul physical ounce they hold. Last I heard, it was something like 50:1.
I will never call the Chinese ignorant, or stupid...for at least ten minutes. These guys know how to initiate a price drop like US bankers, but they will be backing up the truck to load all the physical on the trucks. Clever SOB's, they are..
wait till Bernanke hints that he is concerned rates are too low later today and that he may want to raise them juuuuust a tad to reflect the strengthening economy.
It's pile on time.
Bingo!!
dont like wild rides, wish it would unwind a little more orderly, but welcome to the new world, been waiting for a nice discount to buy more gold... will keep waiting as this is probably just the start...
I was at my jeweler's in mumbai on saturday evening. Place was just as crowded as it always is. No signs of fear or panic. Gold Fizz still rules.
who"s gonna take awaytheir license to kill
I bought this morning at 1410, some vicky sovereigns. Toe in the water. Gold is better value that silver looking at the margins. Looking to purchase more this week. Gold and silver on sale, but I hate paying VAT on silver.
We are in a currency war. This is just an escalation . There is going to be blood...lots and lots of blood.
no currency war, just a bunch of desperate countries trying to save their insolvent banks, and in Japans case, some crackheads found a nice big gun and want to find out what it feels like when they point it at their foot and pull the trigger
Buy the fucking dip.
Ann Barnhardt
That reminds me.....I need to pick up a couple pink AR-15's for the girls.
Does anyone know where I can score some ammo?
http://www.gungrabalert.com/freedom_resources.html
reload your own... much cheaper and more reliable that way. thanks to obama my ar's have doubled and my 30 mag clips have quad... but they will go back down when this nonsence dies down, and then I will buy more of them as well, dont buy when they hype is high you just overpay, wait for a good sale ;)
OK....so where can I score some primers then?
Nowhere I can find...wonder if it's possible to make them?
Govliquidation sells off military brass. Previously purchased 1000lb lots for $1800-2100. Last week 1500lb lots of 5.56 rang in over $9000! Nuts I tell, friggin' nuts...
If you are on a budget and aren't super picky about accuracy, you need to own small arms that load 7.62 39 ammo. Seriously, most people are buying weapons that far exceed their ability to shoot a group. AK with folding stock handles most needs. Folks with training who can actually hit a moving target outside 100yards can buy the expensive arms and ammo. Shotguns are good value too.
A rebuttal.
This is true for the little guy. But big guys don't worry about the rug being pulled out or about delivery. Why? The big guys and their allies at the FED are the rug pullers. Should any delivery problems occur, the rules will be changed. If the big guys get into trouble, the FED will simply replenish their stack of chips. Come what may the big guys cannot lose.
Little guys want to stay in the market? Good, they'll fleece you. Little guys get nervous, want to leave the market or throw a tantrum? The door's right over there. You aren't needed.
No spike is coming. This market is under control.
Thanks for this post!
I guess I should read her more often.
But -- shirley there must be some way to really take delivery for really real, isn't there? Some mechanism to get metal out of a CRIMEX warehouse that does not simply result in a piece of paper that says "You have X.XXX ounces of silver." ?
I don't personally know because
(1) I don't have any money,
(2) I wouldn't touch those guys with a bargepole if I did have any money, and
(3) if I had money, and I got involved with the CRIMEX, then I wouldn't have any money pretty soon, and would have to return to statement (1).
Yup thanks for this... Weak/Strong is the same as Contango/Backwardation?
If a shortage of silver arises I'm guessing refineries will be paying even closer to spot price for stuff like old sterling silverware. You got to know that the price on gold and silver is going to explode once they can't hide reality any longer from the masses.
Refiners in my area increased their buy prices on both gold and silver in Jan.
I was looking into turning a shitload of old sterling silverware into cash and then reinvest into either gold or silver bullion. I'm thinking if this hammering on price continues and panic happens in the paper market refiners are going to be paying higher prices to help dealers meet demand especially as supply decreases. Timing it for best bang for the buck is everything.
I had a strange dream last night - saw my gold bar melting in my hand :)
what could it mean ?
the melting point of gold would not be kind to your hands.
Sheesh, how obvious can it get?
It's LIQUID !
It means you are the true dragon! Westeros is yours by right!
my guess, the markets know PM physical quantities like the federal fish and wildlife commission knows red snapper populations.
I have cash burning a hole in my pocket. Imma going to be a silver magnate by the end of the day.
I think there is a good chance that pm's will stay down or drop further. .22 long rifle rounds will be more usefull in a collapse than pm's. The opportunity to take your profits on pm's is gone. I'd rather have a remote hunting shack with a wood burner and a hand pump well than a pile of pm's now.
When you head into the hills, say hello to the other million people there who had the same idea.
Your either country or not. John Kerry looked pretty damn foolish on his goose hunt. In the future, looking foolish will not be wise. I don't wish ill for the "stackers" here - but I would be feeling pretty conflicted now if I were heavy physical pm.
Hmmm, Apmex 90% silver bags at 23.6% premium at this moment. Bag is 2263.88 and bid is 24.22. Something wrong with this math, lemme know.
http://www.apmex.com/Product/21202/90_Silver_Roosevelt_Dimes___100_Face_...
@3449370: On the other hand, 2013 Silver Eagles, 90% silver bags and Canadian Silver Maple Leaf are all out-of-stock at Texas Precious Metals
Savers vs Takers: The New Fault Lines and Social Unrest
An upcoming struggle is emerging in civil society.
It will be between those who have money but lack the political and financial power to defend it, and those who have the political clout to take it. In other words, the savers vs the takers. There are multiple ways in which the “takers” will get their money. Some are direct, such as the Cyprus and Australian models. Other are more indirect such as the Spanish model. Then there are the models being used in the US, UK and Canada in which depositors money and the deposit guarantees are circumvented for bank bail outs and bail ins. See more at: http://tinyurl.com/dxsqjbe
I feel like we're getting Shanghai'd.
Shanghai market is raising margins, the express is about to leave the station.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/04/15/298399/south-korea-resumes-iran-...
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/04/15/298385/iran-to-increase-gasoline...
http://www.islamtimes.org/vdcgyt9x3ak9nq4.5jra.html
Very silent in S. Africa, i & i think they got nukes and gold.
Briiics 7, Indonesia will start barking, soon come.
Goodby P D's. Markets will find price discovery, soon come.
Rosta
An underlying theme of the "gold boom" is that China is gold's friend. Now the Shanghai market is raising margins. Is China still friendly?
Unintended consequences are a bitch.
Looks like the paper market is going to be destroyed as a result of this take down
by the Fed Res proxies.
The DOW should drop 3000 points this morning.
"Should" and "will" are two rather different beasts. Expect it to close green.
Gold been stolen from Temples ( this days so called markets) for last 4000 years . nothing new here go sleep...
This fall in gold price is a God send. Excellent opportunity to buy.
Here's an assumption: this market matters. It's doesn't.
I wonder if this is what Obama told the bankers to do last Thursday at the private White House meeting...drop the gold price....
I also think there is a "deal" between the USA and Asia on this somehow....it just stinks...
This may be the beginning of the end of the entire paper PM complex.
"You don't hold it, you don't own it"
"Paper will reach its intrinsic value = 0"
These popular and cliche'd sentiments combined with the theft at MFG and Cyprus and all the other evidence of criminality in the trade, may be causing a dump of the futures contracts beyond just the commercials and their cronies.
This has worried me since the MayDay drive by of '11, and here we are, prices dropping like lemmings off the cliff. If premiums stay high and go higher from here, we happy phyzzicians can rest easy.
If not. . . ?