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Californians: Prepare For A 50% Hike In Pension Costs

Tyler Durden's picture




 

It is no surprise that pension funds in the US are significantly underfunded (median 72% funded). California Public Employees’ Retirement System (CALPERS), specifically, is about 26% short of meeting its long-term commitments. Like most major pension funds, it uses smoke-and-mirrors to avoid this yawning gap by smoothing over a long enough timeframe where 'hope' for growth in assets triumphs over the reality of liabilities (through a 'rolling' 15- or 30-year window - that therefore never comes due). However, under a new plan proposed by CALPERS' chief actuary, they will shorten the horizon from 15 to 5 years and aim for a specific date 30 years from now to be 100% funded (instead of a rolling hope-driven horizon). The impact of this, as Bloomberg reports, may mean California taxpayers municipal pension contributions will rise as much as 50%. "This is clearly the right thing to do," notes the fund's CEO, "as it will reduce the risk of the system," though we suspect the 'system' may just get a little upset at having to face this 50% 'tax-hike'.

Via Bloomberg,

California taxpayers may see the municipal pension contributions they fund for the California Public Employees’ Retirement System rise as much as 50 percent under a plan to fill $87 billion in unfunded obligations.

 

Alan Milligan, the fund’s chief actuary, recommends that the biggest U.S. pension stop spreading out losses and gains over 15 years and instead set rates based on how much is needed to reach 100 percent funding within 30 years

 

The Sacramento-based pension, known as Calpers, is about 26 percent short of meeting its long-term commitments. The state and cities contributed $7.8 billion in the last fiscal year, almost four times more than a decade earlier.

 

...

 

Under Milligan’s proposal, the fund would shrink its 15- year rolling period for asset smoothing to five years and amortize gains and losses over a fixed 30-year period rather than the current rolling 30-year period. A fixed period means that all obligations will be fully funded by a specific date.

 

If approved, the rates charged to governments would increase by as much as 50 percent.

 

...

 

“This will reduce the risk our system currently faces,” said the fund’s chief executive officer, Anne Stausboll. “This is clearly the right thing for us to do.”

 

...

 

The median funded status of state pensions, meaning how much money a system has in order to pay its obligations, fell to 72 percent in 2011 from 83 percent in 2007, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

 

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Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:11 | 3459363 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Is it ok for me to laugh?

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:15 | 3459375 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

It is just the beginning. Everyone else, please take notice, you are next.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:37 | 3459469 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

Hey, CalPERS..   How's that $ 500M software PKG workin out for ya?

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2012/041712-500m-state-pension-software...

duh..

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:11 | 3459552 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

They should shut the fucking thing down, return all the funds to investors and let them sort out their own retirement.

Oh wait, what would happen to government funding of deficits if the pension funds were shut and investors invested their money in something of real worth?

er best to get everyone to put more in I think, it's for their own good you know...

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:39 | 3459624 SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

Californicated in the arse these pensioners are. 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:13 | 3459676 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Beam us all up, Governor Moonbeam.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 05:04 | 3459888 i-dog
i-dog's picture

I may have missed it, but I didn't see even one comment for CA to leave the USSA by any of the usual cheer squad for Ireland, Greece, Spain, Cyprus, or <insert EU/EZ country here> to leave the EU/Euro. Not even a comment for them to be "kicked out" of the Union!

I also didn't see a single comment from the many who clearly see the obvious knock-on to other states for a disengagement by their own state from the Federal BehemothTM, before it is [even more] too late. 

Why is this?

Hiding out in the mountains with a stash o' beans'n'bullets is not the way the founding fathers dealt with a distant oppressor (notwithstanding that they were egged on and significantly supported by the Khazarian Kleptokrats in order to create a Khazarian beachhead away from Rome).

This is not a new problem, folks!

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 06:46 | 3459967 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Head east amigos......away from the radiation and moonbeam zombies.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 08:23 | 3460134 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Aw.. all Calpers need do is buy more CDS on Euro debt.

The Fed will make sure the EU is good for it.

(snark  :-)  )

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 09:46 | 3460493 Agent P
Agent P's picture

These calls won't come (at least not loudly) until a state fails (publicly) and needs to be bailed out (publicly) by the federal government (aka other states' taxpayers).  This state, some call it Illinois, will cause real tension in the union...only it will not be asked to leave, but rather it will be the states at the top looking to secede.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 11:10 | 3460883 Freddie
Freddie's picture

California Dem Libturds looted this pension for their cronies plus let the govt unions create golden pensions that required taxpayers to be destroyed.

This used to be a well run pension before the Dems gained control of everything in CA.  Then it became a slush fund for people like Ron Burkle and even rappers to fund business ventures.  Sean Puffy Combs was one of them. 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 11:24 | 3460998 Guy Fawkes
Guy Fawkes's picture

prove it

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 11:39 | 3461102 Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

Tyler just did. Re-read the story and keep in mind Brown created the oublic employee unions last time he was gov in the 80's. The Dems have controlled the state ever since and our economic health as a state has declined ever since even despite the huge revenues from the 90's.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 15:37 | 3462749 Guy Fawkes
Guy Fawkes's picture

And how is that even linked to the public unions? 

The ability to gather signatures and put endless propositions on the ballot, endless bond measures, etc. is the reason CA runs a deficit. 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 22:47 | 3464784 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

That and Prop 13. Take a look at the portion of tax revenue in CA from businesses vs individuals over the last 50 years for a real answer why the state with $1.2T SDP is routinely scrounging in the sofa for mere tens of billions in shortfalls.

But at least Larry Ellison gets a tax refund on his Japanese tea garden masturbatory fantasy home.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 11:27 | 3461012 dirtbagger
dirtbagger's picture

They are all thieves, and our society is broken.  ZH has always been correct on this. 

Your SSI rainy day surplus was stolen by congress, stock investments stolen by CEO's such as Jack Welch and Kenny boy Lay, brokerage funds by the likes of Corzine, Bank deposits by Ben's ZIRP, and Pension funds by all the major Wall Street investment firms.  

 For those who have put away some funds for the future and have to daily endure seeing your future being stolen, I suggest a plan B.  Go long matresses and anti-depressants.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 11:29 | 3461034 caconhma
caconhma's picture

The situation in America reminds me the times I left USSR. We all know that there is no USSR anymore.

The only question is whether Americans will accept mass looting and starvation quietly as Soviets did or it will be rivers of blood all over the USA.

 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 15:45 | 3462816 Freddie
Freddie's picture

+100

This is EXACTLY what I thought when O-Muslim was "elected" in 2008.  Pensioners, seniors and baby boomers will be screwed when the currency fails.  Young people with skills will fare the best like they did in Russia. 

Grab some pop corn as the always pampered Baby Booomers get what they finally deserve.  I feel bad for the ones who did not voted for our Baby Allah but those who voted for him deserve what is coming.  F them and F TV.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:39 | 3459473 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Is there a fund that is not underfunded?

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:57 | 3459526 espirit
espirit's picture

California Dreamin'

No problem for da Bernank to print up your shortfall.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:27 | 3459692 Tapeworm
Tapeworm's picture

Wisconsin is fully funded.

 Goomint drones will get what they were promised by the goomint union owned pols that gave it to the heroic workers.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 04:23 | 3459860 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

I honestly don't know anything about Wisconsin, but I would guess that's a lie like everything else.  The government lies about everything, always.  Even when it's in its own best interest not to do so.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 11:31 | 3461043 Matt
Matt's picture

It's probably fully funded, assuming 8% annual returns.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 03:55 | 3459842 Caggge
Caggge's picture

I am all for raising the rates on the people who are in Calpers to pay for their retirement benefits. Make it so costly they will all go out and get real jobs. There is no way they should steal the money from the taxpayers to provide a Cadillac retirement plan for someone else. Retirement should be as simple as this: Save your own money and retire when you have enough.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 04:49 | 3459875 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

So taxpayers are taxed higher so the $200k lifeguard at Monterry beach can retire at 52 on $180 a year for life?

 

Order more KY ,,,it makes it easier.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 08:11 | 3460099 Max Cynical
Max Cynical's picture

$100,000 club now has 12,199 members and continues to grow...

http://www.fixpensionsfirst.com/calpers-database/

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 11:25 | 3461010 Guy Fawkes
Guy Fawkes's picture

since when is sub $28K a year a cadillac pension?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:10 | 3461301 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Get a clue. You better fucking believe $28k/year is gold plated. Hell, I'd be thrilled with a $10k/year pension. If you are in the private sector, it is a virtual certainty that you will have a $0K/year pension. You will have to get by on SS and whatever you have managed to save in a 401k, assuming that doesn't get looted. The only pension systems left are in the public sector.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 15:46 | 3462769 Guy Fawkes
Guy Fawkes's picture

In other words your jealous rage is why you envy someone who has worked and has a pension. $28K is just above poverty levels in CA. 

One would have to wonder where you stood when Ronald Reagan gave that gift to the Wall Street banks by creating the grandiose 401K plan. Did you stand by and cheer the great CONservative while he instituted the demise of the working class?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 20:28 | 3464206 Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

And how are people with lower paying jobs and no pension going to pay for government workers' higher salaries and pensions?  And I doubt anyone in Illinois has that small of a pension working for .gov.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 20:52 | 3464254 Guy Fawkes
Guy Fawkes's picture

Why do you think that public employees dont contribute to their own pensions in the same way a 401K gets its contributions?

 

As for Illinois ... do your own calculations.

https://www.srs.illinois.gov/SERS/calc/calc_disclaimer.asp

I just ran the numbers for someone who worked 25 years, made $50K a year, retired at 60 ... their pension payment was $20K Hardly that glorified pension many are berrating. 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 22:54 | 3464820 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

So they live another 20 years...did they contribute enough to justify that NPV of $400k, or are they just in cahoots with thieves only slightly smarter than themselves who will eventually pick a pocket or three to make those $20k payments come true?

 

Fri, 04/19/2013 - 11:12 | 3468084 Guy Fawkes
Guy Fawkes's picture

NPV is irrelevant as the payment is not due all up front. If you want to talk NPV then lets roll it back to the amount they contribute plus the 8% ave. growth over their entire working career amortized for 25 years. 

These people contribute to their own pension program ... they ARE NOT picking anyones pocket. Spreading rumor or exceptions as the normal doesnt help your position one iota.

 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 15:47 | 3462836 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Do the math if you can.  $28,000 a year at 3% is about $934,000.  At 2% return, about right for bonds, it is a $1.4 million pension.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 19:18 | 3463414 Guy Fawkes
Guy Fawkes's picture

Again ... prove it, if you can. Who gets 3% raises a year? No one. Please stop running a diatribe on things you obviously know nothing about. 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 09:35 | 3460441 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Two

 

Obama's vacation fund

And more importantly, the FRB fund.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:46 | 3461546 Apocalicious
Apocalicious's picture

<Snarf> 26% under-funded. KY is 26% FUNDED. Yes, that's right. 74% under-funded. They paid out 24% of assets last year net of contributions as benefit payments. Isn't that the saying? Stay around 24% spend rate to make your principal last forever? <guffaw>

 

You want to see feces spraying in multiple directions from direct contact with a spinning turbine, watch KY hit the wall in about 3.5 years.

 

Fuck the unions and the politicians. I wasn't a willing participant to this social contract.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:39 | 3459778 qmhedging
qmhedging's picture

Meanwhile in China ,

"(Financial Times) -- A senior Chinese auditor has warned that local government debt is "out of control" and could spark a bigger financial crisis than the US housing market crash.

Zhang Ke said his accounting firm, ShineWing, had all but stopped signing off on bond sales by local governments as a result of his concerns.

"We audited some local government bond issues and found them very dangerous, so we pulled out," said Mr Zhang, who is also vice-chairman of China's accounting association. "Most don't have strong debt servicing abilities. Things could become very serious.""

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 05:21 | 3459906 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Surely those dirt water carp puddles, fed on second harvest pig and people feces can be financialized?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 13:22 | 3461794 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

Zhang Ke said his accounting firm, SCHWING! Wayne and Garth would be proud.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 11:35 | 3461088 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Do not worry about Chinese. They know how to deal with people.

Remember the Tiananmen Square leading to China renaissance.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 22:57 | 3464829 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

"We tried coming up with lies out of whole cloth, but we couldn't source enough in time to cover this much bullshit."

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:16 | 3459382 ekm
ekm's picture

Sure. It's time that people think and understand that:

 

1) Capital Appreciation is not appreciation at all if you can't sell at that higher price because all buyers are outpriced.

2) What matters is future cash flows.

 

Pension funds have been forced to buy stocks at high price with little cash flow and no chance of selling at that high price since the price would collapse as soon as they'd sell.

 

Life is simple, isn't it YC?

 

 

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:38 | 3459470 prains
prains's picture

Yes buy high, smoke the proceeds, it's the new crapitalism

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:38 | 3459476 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Once upon a time, California was a beautiful place to live EKM.  I'm being stupid. You're an Eastern European, Canadian .

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:04 | 3459536 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

Bingo. Unrealized profits are not actually profits at all.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:17 | 3459569 ekm
ekm's picture

Simple concepts most of people never bother to remember.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:27 | 3459600 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

so, you donT mark to market?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 04:28 | 3459862 mrdenis
mrdenis's picture

Why just this week unrealized profits quickly turned into realized loses ......

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 11:28 | 3461024 Guy Fawkes
Guy Fawkes's picture

Good point.

 

Not to mention that pension funds are required to hold AAA securities. How is anyone getting a return on US Treasuries?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 11:35 | 3461074 Matt
Matt's picture

oh, that's easy, they frontrun the Fed. No matter what price you buy at, the fed promises to buy it back later, for more.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:25 | 3459592 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Yes. Yes, Yen Cross, it is OK to laugh.

Please do spare a moment to empathize with those stupider, more gullible, and trusting than yourself. But otherwise, yes, it's very comical that anybody should/could/would/did believe what their government a/o union told them.

Of course, looking toward the future...they are all much better off than those victims yet to be born.....

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:42 | 3459629 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Have fun rubbing it in. You know I spend 2/3rds of my life in Australia?  It's no secret I'm partially expatriated.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:59 | 3459652 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

"Partially expatriated"???

I hope the next operation is the last. Good luck, and Dog bless.

 

BTW- Above you referred to Eastern Europeans = Canadians; Is that like Texan = Baja Oklahoman?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:00 | 3459659 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Yer on the roll tonight.  I own property in North Queensland.  I'm sure you're well 'heeled' in a foreign County.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:09 | 3459664 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Never been there, but I've met some very nice girls that grew up on 'station'(?), good decision on your part I'm sure. <Zero Sarc>

Apparently, having your Paw chase you 'round with a D-9 builds character....in an Aussie sort a way.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:17 | 3459683 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 partially expatriated/ bank accounts and credit lines in a sovereign non birth country.  Do you need a pack of Crayola Crayons ?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:48 | 3461547 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Naw, just joshing.

Don't know where your down arrow came from, BTW, wasn't me.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 06:23 | 3459947 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

No prob.....just vote to raise taxes on the rich (again).

That's the Cali way.

 

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:14 | 3459364 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Californians; Stop your grinnin and drop your linen.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:34 | 3459452 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

"They can't do that to my pension!"

-- California Dreamin'

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:26 | 3459601 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Find California on a map, and I'll help you find a nice casting couch.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:10 | 3459673 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 If you can contain yourself, I might share one of my rentals in Port Douglas with you and your significant other.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:11 | 3459366 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Funded through a nice giant hike in property tax no doubt. Housing recovery? I don't think so.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:19 | 3459394 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

But nothing can stop the titanic stupidity of the Calpers fund mgrs from buying the most gawdawful investment grade shit that JPM et al have to offer. Their only hope is hyperinflation (and I live in CA too, so not just in it for the schadenfreude).

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:24 | 3459421 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Everybody-with-an-unfunded-liability's only hope is hyperinflation. Pity those on fixed income.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 09:57 | 3460551 Agent P
Agent P's picture

Aren't benefits indexed?  Don't pension funds hold a shit load of bonds?  How does hyperinflation help that setup?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 06:27 | 3459950 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

If anyone in the US government besides RP had any integrity, we could investigate to see if he is receiving any kickbacks from JPM. Being from NJ, this is the natural way I think.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 09:58 | 3460550 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

It's all about commissions, bonuses and 7-course dinners....that's about it.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 11:23 | 3460975 Freddie
Freddie's picture

California real estate closer proximity to Fukashima is not a big selling point in my book.    It does matter.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:14 | 3459370 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Who cares about Commiefornians? Screw a hike in pension costs. Make it go bankrupt already so all these retards realize how screwed up their statist ideology is.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:20 | 3459397 xtop23
xtop23's picture

If it weren't for the Bay Area and large portions of L.A, you'd be surprised how many people have more in common with Texas than California.

Most Californians, outside those areas, are convinced those folks are functionally retarded. 

Unfortunately, they have the largest voting blocs.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:43 | 3459491 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

kind of like Chicago/Cook County vs rest of IL

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 10:23 | 3460656 Lendo
Lendo's picture

Seriously.  

I'd be a felon if I lived in Cook County because of the guns I owned before the boating accident in Lake Forest.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:47 | 3459501 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

You forgot to include Poway, CA in that list.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:24 | 3459595 francis_the_won...
francis_the_wonder_hamster's picture

As a San Diego native, whose votes have been useless for the 20-or-so years I've had a vote, I could not agree more.  I'm pretty much convinced that the state is beyond doomed.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 04:31 | 3459865 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Vote with your feet.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:03 | 3461263 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?"

why, Alta California of course

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:35 | 3459621 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Tx, xtop. Our state has been hijacked by the gimme leaches and the ivory tower elites. The rest of us have been trying to no avail to turn it around. We are not all insane blue sky Progressives. We just want our state back. There is a pragmatic, passionate,fiercely independent group here that is ignored by the MSM. We refuse to die.

Miffed;-)

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:48 | 3459641 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Too bad it's just the two of youz. Good luck fellas.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:14 | 3461323 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Don't worry, Guv. Perry will save you!

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:37 | 3459622 respect the cock
respect the cock's picture

Kinda like Washington State, outside of Seattle-Tacoma metro area.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:31 | 3459771 Lore
Lore's picture

And BC.  Socialism seems to have merged smoothly with the Agenda 21 sponsored "green" movement. Aspiring control freaks are hijacking local governments.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 05:28 | 3459910 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

If only.

Thu, 04/18/2013 - 01:33 | 3464582 Lore
Lore's picture

"If only" what?  Big Green Brother is RAMPANT.  Vancouverites should look up "Hollyhock Mafia."

http://www.postsustainabilityinstitute.org/who-funds-un-agenda-21.html

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 11:28 | 3461019 Freddie
Freddie's picture

When the left gains any control of any state - it is over.  They get RINOs running who will do what they want too.  The elections in these blue states become so rigged that the elections are meaningless.  They have no meaning now.

Anyone see all the Saudis and ME types at the finish line in Boston?  It looks like Mecca in that sanctuary city. 

Wide open borders and destruction of the USA.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 06:23 | 3459948 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Repubs are nowhere to be found in Cali. The Dems now have a supermajority.

The people have voted.

They must be punished.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 07:49 | 3460054 Ain't No Sunshine
Ain&#039;t No Sunshine's picture

With influx of new people into Texas, watch the state morph into California.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 10:01 | 3460561 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

Correct! I used to live in central texas before it got cornholed by cali people now traffic, crime, pollution alerts top the morning news there...it sucks........luckily i moved out...way out ...

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 11:31 | 3461056 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The Democrats plan is to flip Texas.  Due to demographics and their ability to rig elections like they did in FL, OH, PA, MI et al in 2012.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 11:46 | 3461138 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Usually a democracy ends up in a fascist state. We are moving in the right direction.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:29 | 3459430 calltoaccount
calltoaccount's picture

dupe

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:28 | 3459435 calltoaccount
calltoaccount's picture

sociopathic bankster ideology-- nothing to do w statist -- except owning it.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:45 | 3459709 Tapeworm
Tapeworm's picture

I had the pleasure of meeting two ladies that moved in on a nice place in Costa Rica. One was a former teacher with 125k/yr and her butch was an heroic firefighter scrimping on 130k+.

 I have worked for forty-eight years and have saved a pittance compared to their implied stash. I will work for another five years to qualify for SS that I have paid the maximum upon for the past thirty years, although I just barely make that and have had to pay both ways on SS and Medicare. My tax rate exceeds 59%, and is likely more than that if one adds the chickensit fees and taxes that mount up ever more, year after year. I am considered rich as I have no mortgage to pay. My tax on the capital gain for owning HMY was over 41% that I used to pay off my mortgage.

 Two wimmin that go out of their way to disparage fecks like me that have worked far longer for far less than they grab live high with a retirement age five to fifteen years before I can hoe for.

 Why does anyone feel any obligation toward these people?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:19 | 3461352 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

I can't wait until hyperinflation wipes out these fucking public-sector pensions.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 09:26 | 3460391 Dkizzle49855
Dkizzle49855's picture

Just another typical example of why after 30 years I just left So Cal for Texas last December.  Now I just read the L.A. Times every now and again for some laughs.  I do miss friends, the weather, and the ability to hit the beach, mountains, or desert in about a hour; however the rest of the shit you have to deal with was just over the top. 

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:14 | 3459377 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Bill Maher is going to be very upset.

What is it about this guy being upset over his taxes that makes me want to shove his nose even deeper into the steaming pile of liberal shit he himself advocated and supported?  I think I just answered my own question.

 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 07:04 | 3459987 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

You must not understand champagne liberals.

'Taxes are for the little people.' There was an article about celebrities who were in trouble with the IRS for lack of payment. Most of them were liberals.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:17 | 3459385 SgtSchultz
SgtSchultz's picture

Will California be the first state to have higher state income tax rates than federal?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:07 | 3459547 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Will California be the first state to change its name to Detroit?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 10:17 | 3460633 Agent P
Agent P's picture

Not if Obama has anything to say about it.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:18 | 3459390 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

All you tards paying in the pension system : YOU'LL NEVER GET YOUR MONEY...you know where they will steal from first when the bond market says NO MORE BULLSHIT?? Pension funds. Even if a miracle happens and you do get your money, IT'LL BE WORTHLESS BY THEN, thanks to the FED insane policies.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:26 | 3459418 Mordenkainen
Mordenkainen's picture

Some of us "tards" are perfectly well aware of that, but have no choice but to pay into the pension system. I'm fully expecting never to see a dime of it, which is why I consider my PMs my true retirement plan (that is, until I lost them all in a tragic boating accident).

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:26 | 3459427 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

And THAT is the fertile ground for tax revolt.

If you have a SWEET pension, enjoy it while you can.  It ain't gonna last.  Especially not if you retired at age 50.  

Right now the boomers have the votes to keep the money flowing their way.  When they start dying off and losing that numerical advantage, the working-age will decide honoring their luduicrous pensions isn't nearly important enough to lose a big chunk of their paycheck over.  They'll cut 'em off at the knees.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 08:20 | 3460123 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

can't make it last that long.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 15:52 | 3462873 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Well, you are wrong about that. The people retiring now that I know are making out like bandits. I know a histology technician who retired from UCSD last year. She made less than 1/2 what I make now but she has cashed out her pension and has walked away with $700,000. She has forfeited her right to life long healthcare but she doesn't care.( She is married to a wealthy guy). I asked her why she did it and she explained everyone knows this can't last long term so they're taking the money now. I also know a hematology tech there who worked for 30 years and cashed out for $900,000. She has returned to the Phillipines and is living like Bill Gates, which you can do there with that kind of cash. My husbands pension is severely underfunded and they offered a cash out. Because we are 52 we figured we wouldn't see a dime of it. Especially since they capped it at 2k/ month when they originally guaranteed us 5k. We did the math and expected around 300k. We got 180k. Yes we were extremely pissed off but hey, it's better than zero.

Miffed;-)

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:19 | 3459393 beaker
beaker's picture

No shit.  Just what all the working people in CA want to hear. Now they have to support the workers whose union voted themselves all the bennies at the expense of the people who don't have many retirement bennies.  What a fucked up deal.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:29 | 3459405 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Anyone still living in CA deserves it. What should be done to fix CA... divide the state. The coast envelopping the cities get their own state and the rest of the state get theirs. That way, statists on the coast will be able to vote themselves whatever crap they want, ban anything they want and go bankrupt... while the rest of the state will be able to live in peace from these statist scumbags. I think it's known as the ``Western California`` plan...

NY should do the same thing... there's several plans to divide it to get rid of the statists piece of crap in NYC controlling the state.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:31 | 3459443 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Let Mexico take it. They want it. Let them have it.

How will Diane Feinstein and Nancy Pelosi fare in Mexican politics?

 

 

 

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:41 | 3459483 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

I thought that's what they were practising...

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:24 | 3461375 Freddie
Freddie's picture

If Amnesty pushed by Rubio and the Democrats passes then Mexico gets America.   This is Soros pushing this too.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:54 | 3459493 RSBriggs
RSBriggs's picture

Ditto Pennsylvania.  Once you get outside of the Philly area, the people are basically decent. How about just taking that whole eastern seaboard area, Southern Ct,  New York, Philly, Trenton, Baltimore, and Washington DC and just turn it into its own separate mega urban area so it stops fucking up four or five other states...

Funny how it's mostly just the major urban areas that are so fucked up.  Illinois isn't even bad once you get away from the shithole known as Chicago...

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:13 | 3461312 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"Funny how it's mostly just the major urban areas that are so fucked up."

it's because they are "centers of Power"...same kind of folks end up running banks...shitheads

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:19 | 3459398 Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

ObamaCare will fix this, as life expectancies among the retirees will plumet over the next decade.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:14 | 3459678 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

A final solution will come to bear then, just in time?

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:24 | 3459414 bobert
bobert's picture

"Clearly the right thing for us to do" is to phase out taxpayor funded pensions.

 

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:25 | 3459417 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Anyone left in California will have the financial life sucked out of them.

Try selling your home when the property taxes are unbearable. California public employees, pensioners and politicians see property leasers  (See you don't really own it) as an unlimited ATM.

You were provided with enough warnings over the years. 

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:37 | 3459455 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Guerilla warfare against the state, this is how you do it....

http://enenews.com/heavy-damage-after-bullet-holes-riddle-california-pow...

Bullet holes riddle key California power substation causing heavy damage — 10,000 gallon oil spill — Statewide Emergency Alert to conserve energy — 911 calls not working nearby  

CBS San Francisco: [...] Crews were working to clean up an oil spill caused by bullet holes at a PG&E transmission center just southeast of San Jose, a PG&E spokesman said. [...] “We are currently on site assessing the magnitude of the vandalism and the impact,” he said. [...]

KTVU: Vandalism to major power transformer triggers power alert [...] Utility officials issued an emergency flex power alert for the Silicon Valley Tuesday after vandals riddled a key PG&E substation with bullets. [...] PG&E was reporting heavy damage to transformers at the substation following gunshots heard during an apparent vandalism in the early morning hours. [...]

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:53 | 3459517 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

That's how you end up in jail.

If you don't like a state; leave.  Its called voting with your feet.  Voting with a ballot is obviously a joke. Its purpose is to keep sheeple pacified.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 07:03 | 3459985 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Good idea, but ultimately you might run out of states

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:29 | 3461409 Freddie
Freddie's picture

We are running out of states.  Florida is turning blue.  Even Idaho is in for ObamaCare. 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:19 | 3461346 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Gee, now who could possibly benefit from that?

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:34 | 3459457 pbmatthews
pbmatthews's picture

Stockton is just the beginning. California no doubt about it. Municipal bankruptcies cometh!!

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:36 | 3459465 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

But but but! We never saw it coming!

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:30 | 3459640 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

Yep pb, however the jurisdiction for bankruptcy is federal court, not state, with no exception among creditors under bankruptcy. Pension funds can and will be reduced under bankruptcy. A way out! Kinda like "A Back Door" per Job:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBeReLZ9TQg

"Show me a crisis and I will show you an opportunity"!!! The host's will have their recvenge, while the leech infested parasites feel their wrath! What's ironic is their own Fed Statists will annihilate them and then themselves, which is the essence of Marxism as Marx tried ultimately to destroy the business cycle, which will always prevail. What a twisted fuck Marx was and one would have to be as dumb as fence post to think Marx was on the right track, which just goes to show how absolutely brainless the politically progressive liberal elite are!

Kill the village to save it! It's happening in Marxist Europe, north and south civil unrest is looming, as the north loots the living shit out of the south.

 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:26 | 3461388 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I'm curious as to how a municipal bankruptcy can affect an independent pension fund like CALPERS in the manner you state. CALPERS has contractual obligations with pensioners for payouts and contractual obligations upon munis for premium payment. Legally (as if that word meant anything), these are two wholly separate considerations.

So, IMO, pension funds can't be reduced until the fund itself goes bankrupt (which likely isn't "possible" as they will fill any deficits with even further increased premiums).

So...either it's a giant payday for the lawyers, or Bernanke steps up to the plate, making them an offer that they can't refuse.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:32 | 3461436 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Laws?  Legal obligations?  Oh like GM Bondholders had laws and protections.

The law is whatever they want it to be because they can rig elections and they control the cops, courts and military.   Thank liberalism.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 21:56 | 3464499 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

NA,

A federal judge gave the green light to Stockton, Calif. to restructure under bankruptcy protection and that applied to the state pension funds.

No exceptions among creditors: http://calpensions.com/2013/04/08/stockton-bankruptcy-roll-back-pension-...

Keep in mind the cause, it's pensions. The way out of the pension mess, is to file bankruptcy and you will see other municipalities to follow this lead, because they are going to tumble down, down, down into that ring of fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIBTg7q9oNc

 

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:39 | 3459475 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Why not reduce their pensions since they do not have the money. So you want Me to pay more in taxes so you can keep a pension that is twice the size of my private employer pension.

Lets see now. Your pension is much higher than mine....But you want me to pay more taxes for your pension to make sure it is always worth more than mine. 

Are you people out of your fucking minds. NO!, 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:41 | 3459702 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Raising the retirement age to 58 has been proposed many times...58!!!...and it's voted down every time.  Leeches.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 09:25 | 3460383 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

You fail to understand that the liberal/socialistic ideology is based upon a mental disorder that imagines that everything is obtainable through legal mandate and ultimately money comes from heaven. They deserve it.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:36 | 3461471 Freddie
Freddie's picture

It is not a mental disorder - they are evil thugs.  They will take, rob, kill and do whatever is necessary.

Look at Europe, Asia etc where the left/marxists/unions/national socialists have killed tens of millions to get power.  In the USA - they can just steal and rig elections like 2012 and probably 2008.

If you think they will give up or accept empty coffers - keep dreaming.  They will steal from you or kill you if that helps them achieve their goals.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:29 | 3461408 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Between a myriad of laws and the entitlement mentality of "public servants," nothing can be fixed until after it's irrevocably broken.

Once again, the world is ruled by Maggie Thatcher's TINA.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:47 | 3459497 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

If the Fed would stop crushing interest rates, these pension funds might be able to earn enough so the shortfall would not be as large!

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:46 | 3459502 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

good one

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 09:08 | 3460310 marathonman
marathonman's picture

Then the Treasury bond market would collapse, interest rates would sky-rocket, the government would default on its debt, the stock market would crash, and all those checks Uncle Sugar has been kiting will spontaneously combust.  Riots, martial law, mayhem and chaos.  The Fed won't stop (extend and pretend) until they hyper-inflate or the above scenario is forced on them.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:29 | 3461416 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

So... you're saying it's all good then?

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:47 | 3459498 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

But we OWE IT to our brave firefighters and law enforcement-the media told me so after 9-11

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:59 | 3459657 elementary
elementary's picture

No firefighter, police officer, sheriff, etc. should EVER be allowed to retire before age 62 and with a pension over $85,000. People chose these professions because they didn't go for higher education. It's the classic braun v. brains. Last year, it was reported that 10 life guards in Orange County retired at more than $150,000/yr. FOR WHAT?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:42 | 3461516 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Not to be a jerk off but it is Brawn not Braun.  That would be like Eva Braun or brains.  ;-) 

Shit - if I had known this when I was younger - I would have been a firefighter or cop.  You get to chase chicks all day, lift weights, start fires, talk about how the unions loves me.    Some CA psychologist in prison is making $480,000 or something.  Get paid insane money to listen to Charlie Manson talk bullshit all day.

It gets worse too.  Some of these lifeguards can retire at a young age then get rehired at the same pay and start pension plan number 2.  This happens all the time.  There are double, tripple and even quadruple dippers in the govt jobs.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 13:04 | 3461668 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Jerk-off

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 14:23 | 3462309 elementary
elementary's picture

Thanks for correction. Yes, and dentists in CA prisons make more than $500,000.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:55 | 3459522 TallTurtle
TallTurtle's picture

It’s so pleasant to call it a contribution 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:08 | 3459549 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:17 | 3459572 mla
mla's picture

I think Mr. Milligan will be looking for a new job soon.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:41 | 3459580 marshiverson1
marshiverson1's picture

SPIKING, DOUBLE/TRIPLE TICIANS DIPPING,AND OTHER CRIMAL ABUSES((E.G., CHP CHIEFS DISEASE, ETC ETC ETC) ARE INSTITUTIONALIZED IN CALIFORNIA'S PENSION SYSTEM: A MUNICIPAL WATER DEPT DIRECTOR CAN RETIRE AT AGE  50 ON A FRIDAY, IMMEDIATLY COLLECT A $150,000/YR LIFE TIME PENSION; THEN REPORT BACK  TO WORK THE FOLLOWING MONDAY AND COLLECT HIS/HER NORMAL SALARY OF $250,000/YR--A TOTAL OF $450,000/YR!

I THINK THE 50% TAX INCREASE REFERENCED IN ABOVE ARTICLE  WILL FALL FAR SHORT  OF WHATS NEEDED TO CONTINUE  CALIFORNIA'S CRIMINAL ABUSE  OF ITS PENSION SYSTEM. 

THE EFFECTIVE SOLUTION WOULD BE TO HAVE CALIFORNIA JETTISON  LEGACY COSTS --LIKE THE PRIVATE SECTOR--AND LIKEWISE  HAVE THE PUBLIC  EMPLOYEES FUND THEIR OWN RETIREMENT PLANS.  OOPS........... THE PUBLIC SAFETY UNIONS AND THE POLITICIANS THEY OWN WILL NEVER ALLOW.      

     

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:45 | 3459634 Bohm Squad
Bohm Squad's picture

Well there's California's problem...they can't add 150 and 250 together...they're overpaying.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:46 | 3461543 Freddie
Freddie's picture

This happens all over the USA.  Firefighters and cops do it in other states.  Loads retire from NY and move to Florida and get jobs as police chiefs.  It is very common.  There are firefighters in Florida making over $250,000 because they "retire" and get rehired all over the place.  Double and triple dipping happens a lot.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:55 | 3459720 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

It's not a 50% tax increase.  The article is saying that public employers will have to pay 50% more, "including state and schools". What they don't say is from where the money will come.  

Here's the CalPers article.  I'm not sure what "rate smoothing" is...maybe a wise ZHer could help a brotha out.

http://www.calpers.ca.gov/index.jsp?bc=/about/press/pr-2013/apr/calpers-takes-steps.xml

Any increase in taxes in CA historically had to be voted on by the people...up until the state legislature just won their mother-fucking democrap super majority in the last election.  Now they can raise taxes on their own, but we'll see if that's what happens. Some are worried that Prop 13 will be repealed, causing our property taxes to spike.  You would see an even bigger exodus from CA than you're already seeing and the housing market would plummet IMO.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:17 | 3459581 bjfish
bjfish's picture

Do you think the Feds will try to wrestle w/ Texas & Calif. over 'public pensions' when they can just say hand it over Fidelity and grab all of our 401-k's in one fell swoop.  Don't forget, public sector employees and unions are the favored groups - i.e. those who are more equal among equals.

So, things are going to shit, but they'll be sure that the favored groups are always uphill from the masses (and we all know shit rolls downhill).  I have said it here before, "They will sell all of you into slavery to secure their pensions". 

You decide if you need to stock up on more bullets or vaseline!

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