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India's Response To The Gold Sell Off: A Massive Buying Frenzy

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Panic, depression, rage, suicidal ideations: watching the US mainstream media, one would think that these are the prevailing sentiments among those who unlike the prevailing "developed world" speculative class, are invested most heavily in physical old - Indians, who collectively comprise the largest end-demand consumer segment for gold products. One would be very wrong.

Because while apparently it is incomprehensible to the "sophisticated" financial crowd in the US that someone may have conviction in their beliefs, and not just lunge from extreme to another, merely riding momentum and technicals like so many "professional" investors, Indians are doing precisely what a buyer should do when the price of the desired product plunges: doubling down, literally.

Bloomberg reports of the immediate aftermath to the past few days' gold plunge: "Gold buyers in India, the world’s biggest consumer, are flocking to stores to buy jewelry and coins, betting a selloff that plunged bullion to a two-year low may be overdone." Wait, so instead of jumping out off high buildings, Indians are being cool, calm and collected and... buying more? Unpossible. Do they not get CNBC in Mumbai? Apparently not: "My daughter is just six months old, but I think it is never too early to buy gold,” said Sharmila Shirodkar, a 28- year-old housewife, while displaying a new pair of earrings she bought from a store in Mumbai’s Zaveri Bazaar. “I had been asking my husband every day if prices will go down more. I couldn’t wait anymore.”

Indeed - the buying frenzy in India has been unleashed:

While the drop in gold prompted investors worldwide to pare holdings in exchange-traded products, surging physical demand in India may help stem the 17 percent slide in prices this year. The plunge after rallying for 12 straight years may make bullion more affordable to Indians, according to Mehul Choksi, chief executive officer of Gitanjali Gems Ltd. (GITG), the nation’s biggest retailer of jewelry and diamonds by sales.

 

This is a perfect time to buy as prices will only go up from here,” said Vishal Mehta, a 33-year-old garment dealer, while ordering coins from Choksi V. Naginchand & Co. in Zaveri Bazaar. “I usually buy one gold coin a month, but this time I am buying two.”

Hence the true value of the word "double down". Here is another word US "investors" can learn from the Indians - value.

“It has been very hectic in the last two days,” said Deepak Tulsiani, owner of Dwarkadas Chandumal Jewellers in Mumbai as he surveyed his 11 employees, who were busy with customers. “There has been a rush to buy gold because now people are getting jewelry 15 percent cheaper than before. It’s value for their money.”

 

Zaveri Bazaar, the largest bullion market in the country, buzzed with customers, who were browsing through collections of bangles, bracelets, necklaces and rings displayed in trays ahead of the wedding and festival seasons. Most buyers were women in groups of two or more, accompanied by a male who paid the bills.

 

Whatever be the price, Indians buy gold because it is an age-old tradition,” C.P. Krishnan, a director at Geojit Comtrade Ltd., said by phone from Kochi. “It has become an unavoidable expense during weddings and festivals. With the sudden crash in prices a lot of buying is happening across India as people are thinking of it as a golden opportunity.”

Yes: tradition! That's what the Chairman said too. And the chairman is never wrong. Even when he is selling the synthetic paper representation of that tradition and in the process allowing all those who trade on "value" and not "moment" to average down in terms of infinitely dilutible fiat paper.

Back to India:

“Some customers are still scared to buy now as they feel the price will go down more,” Chetan Ranka, owner of Choksi V. Naginchand, said after answering a call from a prospective customer on one of the four phones at his desk. “I have received more than 250 calls on Monday inquiring about the prices. Normally I get maybe 50 calls a day.”

The lower gold drops, the more people will buy.

“I had been keeping a tab on gold prices daily by reading the newspapers,” Sakshi Jain, a 39-year-old housewife, said as she held an intricately designed necklace against her neck in front of a mirror in Zaveri Bazaar. “I had some wedding purchases to make and as soon as prices dropped I came to buy.”

And the rub: once the correction is over, and prices resume their inexorable rising, the double down will become a buying frenzy, as everyone will realize one simple thing. Just because the BLS says inflation is has not arrived, it merely means the central banks, who are laboring under some $40-50 trillion in excess debt, will have no choice but to also double down. And one of these days not even the BLS' best efforts at fudging reality will fail.

Incidentally, they are already are. As the MIT's Billion Prices Project shows, there is just a slight disconnect between reality and what is being spoonfed.

Finally, for some actual numbers, we go to Bank of America which has calculated that the disconnect between the paper selloff and physical buying spree can only last so long before gold shoots right back up to $2000 as the surge in buying overwhelms the paper selling.

With prices now below $1,500/oz, we expect a pick-up in jewellery demand in the medium term and see considerable pain for miners should prices dip below $1,200/oz. As such, we believe the downside to gold prices may be limited to an additional $150/oz. In fact, we estimate that jewellery demand may become so pronounced by 2016 that prices could trade above $1,500/oz even if investors remain net sellers. Looking at sensitivities from a different angle, investors would need to buy merely 600t of gold to sustain prices at $2,000/oz by 2016, compared to non-commercial purchases of 1,798t in 2012.

And some more thoughts from BofA:

Cyprus’ announcement to sell nearly 14t of gold reserves was a key trigger behind the recent collapse in gold prices, as it raised concerns that other peripheral nations may follow suit. Given our estimate that every $45/oz represents a net sale of 100t, the move over the last two days would suggest net sales of 480t, or about 20% of yearly mine supply. In short, the market seems to have discounted the combined future gold sales of Portugal and Greece. As we believe additional gold selling in the European periphery is highly unlikely, we find it hard to fully justify the sell-off.

So please go ahead and sell. All we can say is, well, thanks.

 


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Tue, 04/16/2013 - 22:35 | Link to Comment howenlink
howenlink's picture

My bank has newly designed procedures to deal with a day like today.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 22:45 | Link to Comment Northern Lights
Northern Lights's picture

When ever I pull out $1600 to buy some gold, the teller's would always ask me 50 questions as to why and where I was spending it.  I'm wondering what would happen if I were to pull out $1500 tomorrow and tell them to there face in a rather loud but not obnoxious voice that I was going to turn around and buy gold bullion with the money.

 

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 22:52 | Link to Comment GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

Next time say:  fuck you, it's none of your business!

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:12 | Link to Comment Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

My standard response:

Hookers and blow.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:39 | Link to Comment markmotive
markmotive's picture

UBS says the selloff was excessive

http://www.planbeconomics.com/2013/04/ubs-gold-drop-excessive.html

Many arguing this is a good buying opportunity.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:17 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

Unpossible  :-) .. barbaric..

buying PMs and killing fiat...

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:18 | Link to Comment BC6
BC6's picture

God bless the Guptas and tradition.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 03:50 | Link to Comment toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

Last year, 60 Minutes did a story on the Indian love affair with gold.  It is very enlightening.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7398482n

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 04:23 | Link to Comment zhandax
zhandax's picture

Ideal response to nosy banker questions; "It is for shiny presents".  The women (PC favorite for temp bank branch manager positions) love this.  Always play to your audience.  (Who knows, maybe the grey makes it sound more sincere).

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 04:51 | Link to Comment Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

I got 9 today, and it's not only India: here come the Japanese gold bulls  --> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/16/us-japan-gold-idUSBRE93F18I201...

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 05:54 | Link to Comment WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Yup, Gold is not a "trade". People of the world unite.

 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 06:26 | Link to Comment Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Keep on stacking. It's nothing more than "Dollar Cost Averaging".  Like the Financial Advisor Frauds say when buying into, say, a 401K, LOL!

Be careful when out on the boat ;-)

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 06:28 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

There's about 2 ounces of gold for everyone on the planet.

 

You got more than that.....you're doing good.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 07:31 | Link to Comment new game
new game's picture

world cost averaging

 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 05:52 | Link to Comment WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Next time you cross a person from Indian origin in the street salute this person.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:50 | Link to Comment putaipan
putaipan's picture

if i was a .... swami.       ya da dee dah dah ye da dah!

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:34 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

It was a good 'order' opportunity, given the lack of supply and the Indians swamping my PM shop all day.

My family's LLC cut the check for the order; for its own private hedge fund. With said assets stored privately and securely... Company policy, of course. :-)

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 07:28 | Link to Comment Doña K
Doña K's picture

I am in South Africa at the moment and the largest dealer SAgoldcoin is out of bullion Kruggerands. The middle East community and the elite here have been buying with fury. I was also told by the dealer that if the mining talks breakdown, they may not have access to too many bullion Kruggerands. They charge 8% commission BTW

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:43 | Link to Comment Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

A couple of articles ago (this weekend/ Mondayish) I asked, "What do One Point Two BILLION Indians think" of the recent 'correction'.

Here we can see the insignificance, in aallllll it's graphic glory.

Buy. Yo.

Hookers and Blow for the weak.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 06:28 | Link to Comment thewhitelion
thewhitelion's picture

90% for hookers and blow.  Then I'll just waste the rest.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 22:53 | Link to Comment dr.charlemagne
dr.charlemagne's picture

tell them you are going to put it in your mattress....grandpa was wrong about banks

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:50 | Link to Comment putaipan
putaipan's picture

baba was a rollin' stack- where ever he laid his hat was his matress.....

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:25 | Link to Comment Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Tell them you are going to send it to Cyprus because they now hand out a free passport with every bank account.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 22:55 | Link to Comment YC2
YC2's picture

Um, the teller ask you what you're going to buy? If that's true it's completely unprofessional and none of their business. Its so much so that I don't believe the story, to be honest.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 22:59 | Link to Comment Frank N. Beans
Frank N. Beans's picture

anyone notice how "friendly" your local bank tellers have become?  Wanting to know how your day is going?  Wanting to know if you have plans for the weekend?  To the point of annoyance, but I'm too polite to say mind your fucking business.

and I'm sure they could really give a shit anyway

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:57 | Link to Comment Sokhmate
Sokhmate's picture

I attest to that. although, if they got a nice pair I strike up a conversation to prolong my enjoyment.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:02 | Link to Comment Lore
Lore's picture

+ 50

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 04:27 | Link to Comment Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

I've just noticed their cleavage showing more and more with every banking crisis...I don't complain.  I just withdraw more frequently.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 05:01 | Link to Comment Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

1. Find the freakest church/belief system in 1000 miles; make fake business card

2. Get the full regalia, you are now an archbishop or devil worshipper (what's the difference?)

3. For every question, you ask, kinda whispering, two or three back:  "you look like you haven't been sleeping well"; "hearing voices?"; "ever thought that salvation could be whitin your grasp?"; "thoughts of suicide?"; etc.  "Let's have a session." 

 

They will never bother you again.  Under any circumstance.  

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 06:41 | Link to Comment Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Yep when asked, I'm going pull out a business card with "Thetan 9, Church of Scientology". This, along with my dapper suit and tinfoil hat should at least put them off their canned script routine.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:26 | Link to Comment Dr. Eldon Tyrell
Dr. Eldon Tyrell's picture

Yes. 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 03:43 | Link to Comment Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

THey are like coffee shop clerks now.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 05:56 | Link to Comment Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

I have to say I haven't talked to a bank teller in years. I do everything with Internet banking or ATMs. Have to say I do miss the cleavage now the you mention it.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:06 | Link to Comment pan
pan's picture

It's happened to me on more than one occaision, and yes it is not professional.  Today at the drive through the clerk chick wanted to know why I had not opened a savings account with them yet.  Just keep a minimum amount of cash in the bank at all times.

 

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:11 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I send the withdrawal slip in-tell them i want it banded in $20s and they send it out-you guys need to switch banks.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:27 | Link to Comment Midas
Midas's picture

I go to the tellers for $20 at a time and increase the number of visits because all the girls are stacked. 

 

-nuff said.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:32 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

take out bigger amounts and you'll see those titties in the raw.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:53 | Link to Comment icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

It's not the size of the position, it's the duration.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:58 | Link to Comment putaipan
putaipan's picture

on that note.... i bank at  "       -        ",  the kind ladies there showed me how to bounce a check in the winter (as opposed to two or three overdrafts)  kind of their version of a "pay day loan".  they were most helpful.  that was last winter. doing much better this year thanks to y'all. mellly clickamaka 2013 ! by the graces of good people everywhere, and there are, we will ALL get buy. sell ammo-get dead. need i go on?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 04:20 | Link to Comment Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

Mmmm.   Titties . . . . .

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 07:28 | Link to Comment draug
draug's picture

I can only speak from a scandinavian perspective here, but I personally haven't visited a bank in years. The bank I currently use doesn't even have tellers, just the website. I am really surprised you guys have to put up with all that crap just to withdraw some money. Bet you most of it is really sales tactics to foist insurance and other "products" on you while you're there.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:19 | Link to Comment HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

The government makes them ask those questions. They want to know if you're going to funnel money to terrorist. -God's honest truth.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:21 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

you guys are fucking crazy.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:42 | Link to Comment El Tuco
El Tuco's picture

It's true. They are suppose to report any thing they feel suspicious about their customers and their banking transactions. It only takes one bitch with a grade 10 edjumacation to say something and you have them breathing down your neck......

 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 03:10 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Those ass-clowns don't even know what they are supposed to be looking for, much less how even fill out a SAR.

There are basically only two potential uses for a cash withdrawal (as opposed to a deposit) which would require the filing a SAR-

1) if the customer responded - I'm bribing my pet congress critter who needs the cash for his Bank of Maytag (group sex with underage Dominican hookers is actually kind of iffy since the customer could be spending the cash for his own "benefit")

    or

2) if the customer responded - I'm giving the money to a specifically designated national (an Arab saying I'm giving the cash to my buddy Osama actually wouldn't pass the test, but could justify further inquiry since there are some guys named Osama listed on the SDN list, however, since every SDN named Osama is supposedly dead, a referral for psychological evaluation, as opposed to FINCEN/OFAC, would make more sense, even though a CYA SAR filing might be in order)

"Suspicious" isn't some term meaning anything some dumb retard thinks it means.  These people to be given trips to a gas chamber or the Women's Medical Society in Phily, not given paychecks, if they can't figure this out. 

 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 06:31 | Link to Comment Fred C Dobbs
Fred C Dobbs's picture

Great idea Urban Redneck.  Let's tell everyone to answer the same, "I'm going to bribe my congressman and senator, just like the owners of this bank does".

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 06:55 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

That crap really does work.....and it's pretty cost effective.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 07:15 | Link to Comment Flagit
Flagit's picture

some dumb retard

A double negative occurs when two forms of negation are used in the same sentence. For example, "I don't need no dog food." That is a double negative. Multiple negation is the more general term referring to the occurrence of more than one negative in a clause.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 09:04 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

If you want to be a Grammar Nazi, then be a Grammar Nazi, but at least get it right...

That is NOT a double negative.

Hint: What is difference between a short midget and a tall midget? 

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 01:08 | Link to Comment Flagit
Flagit's picture

ya vol.

what is difference....

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 04:44 | Link to Comment CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

They hire sadists as tellers who just want to know how much you enjoy getting 0.01% interest on yoru hard-earned money. Their intention is not to be nice, simply sadistic. I can hear them now:

 

"Good morning, Mr Bastard. Are you enjoying your day....going to check your 'High Yield' account today....to see if you can afford going to the Dollar Store for another can of radiation saturated sardines?"

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:41 | Link to Comment Northern Lights
Northern Lights's picture

I get this question asked a lot to.  Mostly when I go in to make a contribution from my regular savings account over to my Tax Free Savings Account (Canada).  Me, I simply want to be in and out, but is it ever that easy???? NO WAY!!!!! First they burrow into my finances, then they ask me if I'm going to buy a house/car, then they ask me what do I plan with doing all that MONEY I have saved up?  Am I married, do I have kids, do you want to encumber (sarc) your money into one of their investment programs to get that extra 1% more interest on top of what I'm already getting.  Before you know it, I've been in their office for half an hour to do a transfer that shouldn't have taken more than 5 minutes.  Problem is, for a TFSA you need to do it in person.  No internet banking or using the bank machine.  Gawd!!!!

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:53 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

wow

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:00 | Link to Comment putaipan
putaipan's picture

there's three posts for bitcoin. and i haven't checked lately...but 78$ is pretty stable...given all and all.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 05:06 | Link to Comment Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

no questions asked is but one of bitcoin strong points

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:15 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Be apologetic and tell them that a contractor at your house working on your _______ won't accept a check or has offered a discount if you pay him in cash.  Couple that with an odd value withdrawal (like 2,731.50 or something) and they won't question you.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:06 | Link to Comment tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

Then you can funnel it to terrorists with impunity.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:58 | Link to Comment Lore
Lore's picture

If your TFSA account is set up at the bank's online discount brokerage division, then you should be able to do it online with a few keystrokes. 

NOTE FOR CANADIANS: If you want to save your beneficiaries from someday having to pay a bundle in Probate, then go with them to your bank and fill out and sign a Joint Title With Right Of Survivorship (JTWROS) form for each account, and insist on a copy for the file where you keep your Will. 

I agree that tellers are getting more nosy.  Whatever they ask, remember the answer from your friends at ZH:  "Hookers and blow." Going shopping?  "Hookers and blow." Going out this weekend?  "Hookers and blow."

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 04:45 | Link to Comment auric1234
auric1234's picture

If you want to be cruel, tell them their risk premium is too low for you to open a savings account.

 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:47 | Link to Comment IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

Happened to me when I was making a withdrawal at a branch on the way to buy a boat. She asked me as if we grew up together or some shit.  It was weird.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:01 | Link to Comment putaipan
putaipan's picture

did ya' boink her?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:06 | Link to Comment tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

The logical next question.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 09:03 | Link to Comment IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

Drive thru teller.  I just flashed my nutsack and was on my way.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 03:47 | Link to Comment Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Next will be: What's a nice guy like you doing in a place like this?

 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 10:06 | Link to Comment Squiddly Diddly
Squiddly Diddly's picture

Tell them your a Colombian Narco launderer and Eric Holder said you are exempt from investigation due to potential financial system collapse.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:01 | Link to Comment RobD
RobD's picture

According to my neighbor who is a credit union manager it is a fed law(maybe regulation) that they have to ask you what the large withdrawal is for. If you are evasive they have to fill out a form and send it in. Just tell them it is for gold and its cool, if you tell them it's none of there business you would be wrong.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:08 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

no they fucking don't. they have to fill out a SARS for $10k+ transactions but they still can't ask you what you plan to do with it. I did a $400k transfer for my house and nobody said shit.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:23 | Link to Comment HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

Yes, they are required to ask. I got huffy a few times about it. They start asking questions around $1000 - $1500 if you take out cash.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:30 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

huffy over a grand?

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:40 | Link to Comment HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

No. I've been asked when taking out 3-5K. When I ask them why they are asking me, they say it's Federal law and that they are required to ask at something like 1-1.5K. Maybe I'm just on a terrorist watch list, so they keep tabs on me. I don't fucking know, but it's what I've been told. It's happen to me at 3 different banks.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:14 | Link to Comment CClarity
CClarity's picture

The real Q is at $5 mil and wire transfers for individuals (not corporations, but don't forget, they're people now and they can vote) .  That's where required reporting comes in.

But . . . with capital controls around the corner, maybe they're just "in training" on the Qs of $1-2K.  Having lived in a socialist Eastern European country back in the day, when capital controls are imposed, everybody, I mean everybody, gets to ask.  At the bank, on the train, walking down the street . . . 

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:44 | Link to Comment Croesus
Croesus's picture

@ Otto Skorzeny:

I can vouch for that. It happened to me last week, and the withdrawal amount was only 2K. "Are you buying something big?" was the question the teller asked. "Not really" was the reply she got. I don't care if she did report it, because as someone else here said, it's none of their fucking business anyway.

I have heard that the reporting requirements were lowered to include cash withdrawals in any amount in excess of $3,500, but I don't have a citation for you.

 

 

 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:00 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

here's a little tip-get 2 atm cards-1 in your name and1 in your wife's and you double the amount you can get at the atm in a day.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 08:04 | Link to Comment Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I had no problems withdrawing thousands from an ATM until the limit (maybe $2k).  Then going back the next day and repeating.  No tellers needed. 

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:32 | Link to Comment Mordenkainen
Mordenkainen's picture

I regularly withdraw $5G at a time and never was asked a single question.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:34 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:12 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

The key is "regularly." I've been asked questions sporadically, but I pull 5K/month or more at regular intervals, early on I was asked why, and I just say entertainment (which is partially true.) I'll mention going to a high-end restaurant in conversation occasionally as well; once a pattern is established, you're pretty much off the radar.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:27 | Link to Comment GOLD AND SILVER...
GOLD AND SILVER NATZI's picture

Balla

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:27 | Link to Comment RobD
RobD's picture

Lighten up Otto, just relaying what the guy told me. He is a good dude as far as bankers go and has no reason to lie to me.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:29 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

maybe so- but i've been bleeding my bank dry and all I hear is "Hello" and "Thanks-have a nice day"

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:55 | Link to Comment YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Mostly me too. But I have encountered bureaucratic types a couple of times who seemed to be under the mistaken impression that her (it's always a woman who seems to have escaped from working for the DMV) menial position of cashier gave her power, as if giving me my own fucking money was a tiresome favour that had to be preceded with questions a North Korean immigration official would blush to ask. 

I always avoid the affirmative action ladies if I can possibly help it. If you're polite,  then it's condescension.  If you're businesslike,  then you're a rude bigot. I just avoid them altogether. 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:03 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

dats raciss- but I also adhere to the "avoid black women" credo

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:20 | Link to Comment CClarity
CClarity's picture

I just think DMV is so close to DMZ that I can't get that aspirational visual out of my head.  From the Dept of Motor Vehicles to the DeMilatarized Zone. And I suppose it begs the Q of what would the DMW, DMX and DMY be?

A Deutche BMW instead of Bavarian for DMW?

DMX sounds like a cool bike track or an ETF

DMY . . . do me Y?

Suggestions?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:40 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

BMW is German for "massive douchenozzle"

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 03:33 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

In Germany...
BMW says: I'm a Striver and successful.
Mercedes says: I no longer need to strive, and am successful.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 08:02 | Link to Comment css1971
css1971's picture

In Germany, Mercedes says "I'm a taxi".

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:44 | Link to Comment steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

 

 

 

When you deposit money in a bank it isn't your money any more, it is property of the bank, a 'liability' to them.

 

When you ask for money it is the bank lending it to you. Even cashing a check is you borrowing from the bank the settlement is made at the end of the business day.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:31 | Link to Comment Northern Lights
Northern Lights's picture

YES, it is always the women that ask me the 50 questions about my cash withdrawals.

Problem is, it's mainly only women that work the teller booths at the bank I make my withdrawals from.

Back in 2006 I got a bank draft to pay for my Rolex.  First thing the broad at the counter asks me is "Who's the watch for?"

It's for me you dumb bimbo!!!!

Women always think about the "sisterhood".  It's almost like how dare I actually spend the money on myself! I should only be spending on a female parasite!

 

 

 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:11 | Link to Comment Lore
Lore's picture

If it's always the same female parasite, she must be mesmorized by your magnetic male charisma. It's the burden we carry.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 05:27 | Link to Comment Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

could you please change your avatar?  It would make the world a better place, you know it...

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:32 | Link to Comment fasTTcar
fasTTcar's picture

Anything deemed a "suspicious" transaction, regardless of amount has to be reported under (significant) penalty of law.

Patriot Act regulations (or Fintrac in Canada) require it.  No bank teller is going take the Feds wrath because you want to be a smart ass.

 

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:36 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

fuck 'em-they can rat me out to whoever they want to. because when the shit goes down and you get Cyprus-ed w/ your account those assholes at the bank will not give a shit about you.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:52 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"No bank teller is going take the Feds wrath because you want to be a smart ass."

You remind of the guy on CNBC who after the Boston incident said he would be OK with a cavity search.. if it would help catch the bad guys... Jeez! have some dignity.  Tell them to go fck themselves and have a nice day.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:46 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I have a feeling that guy gets many cavity searches in the course of a day-and not from DHS- more like from some guy named Todd sipping a mojito.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:08 | Link to Comment putaipan
putaipan's picture

but do i get a free 'pressure cooker" with that?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:08 | Link to Comment putaipan
putaipan's picture

spiderman towel?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 03:29 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

No - is not ANYTHING it is SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY -  they even have convenient check-boxes for the quota monkeys so they don't have to look up what suspicious means (legally)...

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 05:16 | Link to Comment Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

this is the entire point; let's all be suspicious, evoke Ron Paul's wrath unto them; and change this mentality

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 06:42 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

You're missing the entire point.

People who post on ZH should not demonstrate the negligence required to be a bank employee.  Moreover, I can count on ONE HAND the number of circumstances where THE INTERESTS OF BANK MANAGEMENT and the interests of BANK DEPOSITORS are THE SAME.  This is one of them.

The 5'2" 300lb McFatty who takes 30 minutes to execute withdrawal that should take 2 minutes, and every bank customer detests being serviced by (or screwed buy) is the exact same  5'2" 300lb McFatty that their boss would love to fire, because after they get done wasting wasting an extra 28 minutes on a single transaction, instead of completing 15 transactions, that same McFatty then wastes another 30 minutes needlessly filling out a SAR (usually right before lunch/closing time or right after lunch)...  

The law sucks- and its primary benefit (in practice) is keeping useless eaters employed the bank and bank customers frustrated by slower and more incompetent service.  

 

CTRs and SARs are not the same thing, it's frankly none of the government's business with either one, and even without factoring in inflation- the thresholds are more of a nuissance than a tool- but CTRs are not ever going away- SARs could be done away with if the public speaks up loudly and intelligently and the cost to the banking industries' lobbyists is less than they stand to gain by their revocation...


Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:10 | Link to Comment OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

You did a transfer.  That doesn't count.  The alarm bells ring when cash is drawn.

By law they have to ask when you hit over $9,999.  But banks have their own little policies designed to make cash withdrawals a pain in the ass.  Some go as low as $1,000, most are at the $5,000 point.

They have the same requirements for cash deposits.  I've said this before, but am happy to repeat my story since I'm old and tend to do that.

I use a smallish local bank connected to China.  In my professional capacity the business uses the same bank and I've become a 'known cretin'.  I no longer have to go through the questionairre over large cash deposits.  But there was a time, and every once in a while with a new kid, that I had to answer the questions.  I made up answers.  Cash came from my mythical porno work, my latest reverse bank robbery, selling a bunch of pigs for a luau honoring Osama Bin Ladin, slowly spelling out 'N-O-N-E-O-F-Y-O-U-R-F-U-C-K-I-N-G-B-U-S-I-N-E-S-S' for a few.  Occupation questions were answered, Superhero, Batman, Gay Porn Fluffer, Crooked Secret Service Agent, International Arms Dealer, Mexican Drug Mule, and anything else I could come up with.

It got to the point where the girls were so tickled with the game they started making suggestions.

I've never had a visit from any of the federales that supposedly monitor this bullshit.  Would be delighted to meet them.  Nothing says that any answers have to be honest.

Works the same for withdrawals.  Banks hate large surprise withdrawals.  Cash is their inventory and it's kind of like buying all the donuts first thing in the morning.  No one planned to have all the donuts gone first thing on opening and no body else gets a donut that day.  I always call three days ahead and let them know that I'll be making $x withdrawal and will be there around 10am to pick it up.  They can expect me, have the cash available, and usually pull me into a private office to do the transaction.

On my own bank account I've made it very clear that I don't trust a bank.  The only money I leave with them is what I'll use for immediate on-line utility payments.  Everything else goes into grandma's safe.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:50 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I've never had issues with cash withdrawals of any size-only when I want smaller denominations

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 01:10 | Link to Comment HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

"Gay Porn Fluffer" I'm putting that on my next census.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 08:57 | Link to Comment Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Be careful.  You census taker may take a liking to you after hearing that news.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 03:33 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Transfers (from one party to another) are subject to CTRs.

5000k for banks

2000k for money changers

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 08:51 | Link to Comment Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Mr Jerremy, I'm so glad you recovered from your aortic disection.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:20 | Link to Comment Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Actually report can occur with as little as $5k of aggregated transactions.  The poor sob filling out the report has to choose an answer for part three question 35 and write an essay in part five.

http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/f9022-47_sar-di.pdf

Don't you feel safer knowing your financial institution spies on you on behalf of your government?  And that, by law, they're not even allowed to tell you about it?

 

Notification Prohibited Federal law (31 U.S.C. 5318(g)(2)) requires that a financial institution, and its directors, officers, employees and agents who, voluntarily or by means of a suspicious activity report, report suspected or known criminal violations or suspicious activities may not notify any person involved in the transaction that the transaction has been reported
Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:51 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

uncle sam -"the rules are for thee-not for me"

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 07:00 | Link to Comment Help Is Not Coming
Help Is Not Coming's picture

Suspicious Activity Report
Fincen Form F9022-47 Section 5 Paragraph (c)

Part V c. Retain any confession, admission, or explanation of the transaction provided by the suspect and indicate to whom and when it was given.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 03:25 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

A CTR (currency transaction report) is for large dollar transactions (5k at a bank, 2k at a money changer), they are generated AUTOMATICALLY by the computer accounting system each day/night.

A SAR (suspicious activity report) is only for defined suspicious transactions and they are created manually- usually by PDF but some banks have online direct submission tools, it's about 50 questions and creates a requirement for the bank to retain of all related documentation for 5 years.  

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:56 | Link to Comment Nassim
Nassim's picture

THEIR business

It is over THERE

I feel so sorry for you American dudes with your disfunctional educational system.

 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:12 | Link to Comment OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

yeah, their so fucked up.

 

 

 

I know, I know, "they're"

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:12 | Link to Comment putaipan
putaipan's picture

chuckle = greenie. and @2am.... three pages to go.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:14 | Link to Comment tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

Their their now; no reason to get all bent out of shape.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 05:03 | Link to Comment ClumsyBoatman
ClumsyBoatman's picture

You should have said "Dysfunctional" smartarse.

Disfunctional is an incorrect variant on the normal spelling and not commonly used.

It's important to be correct when being pedantic.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:06 | Link to Comment Honey Badger
Honey Badger's picture

Friday humor: what to tell your bank teller when they ask why you are withdrawing YOUR money.

Qvc
Hookers
Cowboys
Church

The list is endless and priceless.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:14 | Link to Comment hannah
hannah's picture

i dont think the bank teller would be suprised...i've seen more than one banker ceo doing blow off the belly of a dead hooker.....

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:25 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

The Dimon Principle.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:00 | Link to Comment GAAP is crap
GAAP is crap's picture

My generic answer is "I steal cars" when they ask what I do (who trains these people?).  When they ask what I will spend it on, that is easy, the answer is always Vegas and hookers.  The non-mention of any drugs in my sardonic answers means no trigger of stupid drug related money laundering crap some lame teller may then set into motion.

 

 

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 03:44 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

That kind of cash is also good for buying & selling used motorcycles and antiques. Chicks dig motorcycles and nice antiques.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:10 | Link to Comment mt paul
mt paul's picture

that might get you

a visit from ..

 

Dept of Homeland Economics ...

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 07:28 | Link to Comment new game
new game's picture

who is smarter than 4 th grader

sheepicans gold to frn's

or

indians rupee to gold

hmmmm

she got the frn's i got the gold shaft ;-)

(and she will never know)

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:01 | Link to Comment zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Gold has always been the go-to asset in India. They know real money when they see it.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 07:26 | Link to Comment Pemaquid
Pemaquid's picture

Around here a teller would be fired for asking that.. Next time ask to see the manager.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 22:36 | Link to Comment Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

Indians aren't stupid.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 22:59 | Link to Comment Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Even after the manipulated fall, gold remains 32% higher than the $1045 per ounce India paid for 200 metric tons of gold from the IMF in November 2009.

Makes me wonder if India, or another country would snap up Cypriot gold (or Portuguese etc.) en masse if the Euroscum forced a sale.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:44 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ $1045 

The "India Put".  If for whatever reason physical gold falls below, say, $1200 or so, India will be there to buy it all up.  I would bet China would be in that parade as well.

And whatever physical would be left in the USA when the price is under $1200?  Gone very fast.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 03:44 | Link to Comment Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Bloomberg is certainly doing their best to keep the "Europe is selling its gold" ball in the air.

One guest said it is easier to sell gold than to "go to one's depositors".

Euro zone depositors take note: they are coming regardless.

Depositors still have a chance to take their euros and buy gold while their masters are claiming they are selling. Two birds with one stone.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 22:56 | Link to Comment TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Old family tale:  One of our aunts bought a "Rolex" from an "Indian" with a trenchcoat full of "Rolex'" in the parking lot of a Stuckey's somewhere in the midwest.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:48 | Link to Comment enloe creek
enloe creek's picture

That was me with the trench coat
how are she liking the watch?
am thanking you very much

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:16 | Link to Comment putaipan
putaipan's picture

uncle ernie? (otherwise reference would help much. thnx,)

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 06:53 | Link to Comment RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

It was a test and your relative passed.  The guy in the trenchcoat also had no pants on and all your relative saw was the Rolexes.  Good, since they were probably gold, she passed.

Wonder why she never told you about the Rolex wrapped around his wang?

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:20 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

they should use some of that $ for soap. seriously-I can't even walk in the local Dunkin' Donuts.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 07:46 | Link to Comment Flagit
Flagit's picture

why would you walk in there in the first place?

$6 doughnuts and coffee tasts like shit.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 00:35 | Link to Comment Tapeworm
Tapeworm's picture

Yes they are.

 Have you ever seen a cowbow movie when the Indians keep riding around in circles around the wagon train just to get picked off?

 They were at one time the best light cavalry in the world, but lost it all when Hollywood started filming them.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 22:37 | Link to Comment dolph9
dolph9's picture

Indians buy gold mostly for jewelry.  I don't think they are particularly sophisticated about it.

Still it is interesting to watch the inversion of the world order in action.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 22:41 | Link to Comment FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Jewelry is their prefered form of bullion. Different shape, same idea.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 22:47 | Link to Comment Mordenkainen
Mordenkainen's picture

Preserves wealth and keeps the womenfolk happy. Maybe they're onto something there.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:05 | Link to Comment Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

I heard they only buy gold denominated in yen terms for their jewelry.

The rest is garbage.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:03 | Link to Comment tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

There are two kinds of people in this world...those that love gold and liars.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 06:30 | Link to Comment Room 101
Room 101's picture

I'd amend that to those who love gold or silver or are liars. 

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:21 | Link to Comment Unknown Rider
Unknown Rider's picture

I spent some time in Khamis Mushayt, Saudi during the early 90s. Down at the market the women in the burkas would go to the gold market and buy and sell 24kt braclets, nothing fancy. They'd have an arm full of them. The best we could figure was that they wore their wealth and sold to go shopping.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:38 | Link to Comment YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Saw the same at the Riyadh gold market when I was a kid. Vendors selling gold on groaning carts like fruit. I asked about security and somebody pointed out a stone plinth - where they cut the hands off thieves.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:39 | Link to Comment Mordenkainen
Mordenkainen's picture

LOL crude but effective

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:54 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Can it be used for banker's heads too?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 06:48 | Link to Comment RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Well that is the offending part...

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 07:50 | Link to Comment Flagit
Flagit's picture

offending parts....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwtsVX3DjC0

 

hell no, if we punished theives, the bankers wouldnt live here.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 23:37 | Link to Comment fasTTcar
fasTTcar's picture

Jewellery is non monetary.

You can walk through a border checkpoint with $500,000 worth of gold in jewellery and not declare it.  But if you have 10 oz. of gold coin, you are breaking the law.

Portable, valuable wealth with a common exchange rate anywhere in the world.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 02:19 | Link to Comment putaipan
putaipan's picture

viva the 'nana republic!

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 22:54 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

You really should stop muddying up the water with facts. It confuses the trolls.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!