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US Mint Halts Sales, Depletes Inventory Of One-Tenth Ounce Gold Coins

Tyler Durden's picture




 

We have been reporting extensively on the terminal disconnect between the paper gold market, which tumbled ten days ago for a variety of reasons, and the physical gold market which one can safely say, has seen a record surge in demand by those who wish to take advantage of the tumbling prices, depleting inventories of gold and silver in virtually all jurisdictions, and leading to the a record purchase of gold in the US mint a week ago as also reported here.

Today, we learn that, as expected, none other than the US Mint has officially run out of small denomination gold coins, in this case One-Tenth ounce American Eagle gold bullion coins. We are confident this incontrovertible proof of soaring retail demand for physical will somehow result in JPM or another bullion bank dumping a few extra thousands ounces of paper/electronic gold or silver to further disconnect the paper price from what is actually going on with physical demand. As for the US Mint, first it's fractions of an ounce: look forward to the mint running out of all bullion denominations in the coming days and week, first in gold, then in silver as well.

From Reuters:

The U.S. Mint said it has suspended sales of its one-tenth ounce American Eagle gold bullion coins as surging demand after bullion's plunge to two-year lows depleted the government's inventory.

 

This marks the first time it has stopped selling gold product since November 2009, dealers said. A spokesman for the Mint did not return calls seeking confirmation of that milestone.

 

The U.S. Mint, one of the world's leading gold and silver coin producers, halts coin sales from time to time as it runs out of coin blanks to meet increases in demand.

 

So far in April, the U.S. Mint has sold 175,000 ounces of American Eagle gold coins, putting it on track to challenge a high of 231,500 ounces set in December 2009.

* * *

While the one-ounce American Eagle gold coins remain the most popular size, year-to-date demand for the one-tenth ounce coins has been up over 118 percent compared to the same period in 2012, the Mint said.

We, for one, can only hope that the idiotic smashdown of spot paper gold continue and the price is sent to $0 or negative, while the last remaining physical ounce in inventory disappears at any price.

At that point the exchanges will have quite a few anxious people to answer to, the second someone demands even one bar in delivery.

Also, learn the words: "forced cash settlement."

 

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Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:29 | 3489725 fightthepower
fightthepower's picture

Fuck you Bernanke!

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:32 | 3489736 Temporis
Temporis's picture

THE END IS NEAR FOR UNCLE BEN!!!

Next stop, Hyperinflation express!

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:33 | 3489746 Temporis
Temporis's picture

Kitco has silver eagles $6 over spot and maples $7 over spot...

APMEX is out of damn near everything except collectable silver.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:35 | 3489759 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

When selling 30+ tonnes per day between London and Shanghai, this is a non-event.

The retail market is a small factor in the gold market.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:37 | 3489764 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

JPM PLEASE crash gold again, PLEASE!

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:48 | 3489845 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Kitco website "unavailable."

"Currently down for maintenance".

BEFORE the close of market ????

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:00 | 3489907 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

My local shop isn't taking orders for silver anymore becasue they can't get it. Walked away with a few silver maple leaves and felt fortunate. 

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:07 | 3489935 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

There will be retail coin and small bar shortages.

There are 50x that volume moving on the major physical exchanges.

1/10 oz. gold coin being out of production is not a market mover.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:11 | 3489961 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

@ pinto

Heard ya the first time. But, if you're getting paid per post, it's perfectly understandable. Carry on.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:16 | 3489976 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

Not paid per post.  Sometimes a bit more information helps.

What do you know about gold?  If you know something about this topic, post some helpful information to move the discussion forward.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:15 | 3489981 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Speaking of a bit more information helps see Kito's post below

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:52 | 3490150 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

Gold is shiny and yellowish.  Also when I buy gold, I get a physical piece of metal that I can keep, bury, or be really careful with when out kayaking in the ocean.  When massive amounts of gold are changing hands, who knows what really happens. They might have bars of gold being moved around, they might not, they might be just trading paper and the "hope" of gold.  My gold was real until I dropped it in La Jolla cove on Sunday.  Darn kayaks and their tendency to tip.

Oh, I also paid a lot less than $6 over spot for the silver maple leaves.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:22 | 3490257 dogbreath
Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:36 | 3490296 DosZap
DosZap's picture

must read ----> http://www.clivemaund.com/gmu.php?art_id=68&date=2013-04-22

If Clive is correct, there will not be any PM's available for sale at any price in the markets.

Folks will snatch it up like crazy.( that's when the Parabolic move will happen.)

Back to $1k, or below?, back up the trucks. What Clive has not entered into his  charts and theories is WHERE are we now comared to '08,1000x's worse off.

The Fed will have to go hyperdrive on QE to even have a snowballs chance to stop the rates.

QE to EndFinity just like Sinclair said.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:53 | 3490391 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

Yes.  Availability and price are two different things.   Clive has the unfourtunate habit of being right and an awfully good technician.

 

 

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 18:11 | 3490461 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Clive's analysis is pretty common sense, flies in the face of the claims on here though. 

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 18:28 | 3490513 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

Him and us aren't really comprable.   He is a technical analyst and we for the most part are stackers.  A few come around and try to shame us because the shamers see things from an investment point of view whereas stackers are preservationists and have more in common with a guy who makes dill pickles from his garden than someone who trades or buys stocks

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 18:51 | 3490635 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

He's using technical analysis to get to his (extremely bearish) outlook, but a lot of what he's saying seems to boil down to common sense. Most of the advice I get from his post centres around be careful and let the smoke clear before making decisions in the gold market right now. 

Him and us aren't really comprable.  He is a technical analyst and we for the most part are stackers. 

Why sell yourself short? What he's coming up with isn't rocket science. 

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 18:52 | 3490644 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

He is a technical analyst, but is stating that there won't be any gold or silver for retail to buy.

That doesn't sound like a pure technical assessment of the situation.

I'm wondering myself if Eagles, etc. will disappear for good at some point. 

You can still get 1/10 ounce eagles here: http://www.pmbull.com/gold-price/

Once those are gone, maybe then they pull production on the 1/4 ounce coins?

What if Eagles just dry up altogether, never to be available again. It is possible, the law notwithstanding. They'll change that in a heartbeat.

I like Turd's analysis of the situation today.  Those dots he's connecting are pretty clear and perhaps Clive is starting to see past his charts too.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 19:30 | 3490791 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

OK, I was wrong, or the 1/10 Ounce gold eagles on that page all got bought up fast!

Watch the 1/4 ounce eagles start to disappear next.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 20:45 | 3491036 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

I don't think traditional TA applies to this situation. We don't have just physical and futures, we have ETFs that are being manipulated.  Yes futures are subject to manipulation, but they result in delivery at some point or it all falls apart. No one who owns gld or slv has any reasonable expectation of delivery. It is all just make believe.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 21:17 | 3491123 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

 

So, of 1/10 oz coins, there are 30,000 oz. (1 tonne) of production out of 476,000 total gold ounces of Mint production so far in 2013.

http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/american_eagles/index.cfm?action=sal...

The suspension of production after 30,000 oz. of these coins in 2013 doesn't seem to be market moving compared to 1,000,000 oz. of physical gold each trading day and 70,000,000 oz. of physical gold offtake during the first three months of 2013 from the LBMA and Shanghai exchanges (alone). 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 02:15 | 3491778 zhandax
zhandax's picture

TA still (somewhat) applies, but this is akin to looking at an AAPL chart to predict the next move in Foxconn.  He is charting paper gold futures.  You know, the kind where if they can't deliver any gold they just give you cash and tell you to fuck off.  Where most of our interest lies in the the physical metal market.  They can run the paper price down to $1000 every Tuesday, it doesn't mean any metal is for sale there.  That is what the mint data screams.  There was similar decoupling between paper and metal during the gold dump in 2008, and it signaled the approaching breakdown in trust in paper markets.  I wouldn't be surprised if this is what is being signaled in 2013.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 18:51 | 3490636 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

I don't know, seems he has gone beyond TA.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 18:59 | 3490681 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

The basic points from my read were:

Many are now protesting “How could gold collapse when its fundamentals are so strong?, overlooking the fact that that is precisely when bearmarkets start, because all of the good news is known to the market and priced in.

There is no serious support until it gets down to the $1000 area, which is where it looks like it is headed.

While going on price alone it looks like this line could hold and generate a reversal to the upside, the massive down day last Monday and enormous volume on the plunge strongly suggests that this trendline will fail and that gold will drop steeply to the $1000 support level at least.

If gold did enter a bearmarket now, which is what the action last week appears to be signaling, it would of course have profound implications for just about everything. It may be the harbinger of an impending liquidity crunch and skyrocketing interest rates that would bring the world economy to a dead stop.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 19:12 | 3490733 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

The thing is, I don't think that collapse is a harbinger of anything other than what those who engineered the bogus paper market collapse intended.

We just can't provide a traditional TA read on this. Nor do I believe that this can be interpreted with a traditioanl fundamental outlook, because that collapse was not the product of a functioning market, with multiple, rational market participants.  

It was a planned collapse by a few, for whatever purpose they may have had. Further, the response to that collapse may very well have been the opposite of what was intended.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 19:26 | 3490783 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

When they're painting the charts - quite deliberately when you look at charts, you can't depend on tech analysis.  You've had deliberate efforts paint charts on critical numbers over the past few years - they've gotten good at it.  Charts seem to be DELIBERATELY painted to force the behavior that 'they' want from the masses in the market.  It's manipulation on a huge scale - far beyond the old schemes you used to see in markets.  

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 18:50 | 3490638 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Bullshit. Maund has been wrong on many occassions, like the big move to $1900.  

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 18:58 | 3490672 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

link please

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 19:07 | 3490713 oddjob
oddjob's picture

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/maund/maund033108.html

with Gold @ $900, Clive goes on to say....

"traders can position themselves to profit from further heavy losses in the metals"

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 19:18 | 3490754 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

with Gold @ $900, Clive goes on to say....

"traders can position themselves to profit from further heavy losses in the metals"

Link is March 31st 2008, don't get what your issue with that article is? He's mostly proved correct.

Market was on general downtrend until FOMC in the fall. 

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 19:44 | 3490832 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Other than advising people to go short on an invesment that more than doubled, I dont see a problem either.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 19:02 | 3490682 oddjob
oddjob's picture

As like Gartman, Maund called a top too many times, but his analysis is worth what people pay for it.

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 00:33 | 3496185 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

must read so you know who has no clue whatsoever how to read the gold markets, charts or fundamentals. That’s a source I will avoid in the future. I know Clive Maund has a big name in metals. I don’t give a flying fuck. What I just read was utter trash, lacking any proper explanation, filled with baseless assertions of support and resistance. Even to the bullish side upward on up-trends many are fools calling support & resistance where there is none – I dismiss them too.

 

What matters is the volume of delivery and the volume of failed delivery. What matters is the cost of gold / silver vs wages and the real (negative) interest rates combined with printing money. What matters is how price plunges of this effect do NOT happen absent massive short-selling by JUST ONE or a couple of agents ALL at once of ounces that flat out do not exist. That’s what matters.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:18 | 3489982 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

dup

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:26 | 3490006 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I admit I know nothing about the PM markets, but it seems obvious to me that the people who buy 1/10th oz. gold coins are likely the very same people who simply can't afford to spend thousands of dollars at one time for a few ounces. So if there are supply shortages at the "low end," it could be indicative of the little guy beginning to feel uneasy about holding wads of paper in his wallet or the bank. If an even greater shortage starts to occur in silver, the "poor man's gold," that would seem to be confirmation of that theory.

Again, it's all just speculation on my part, but if there actually is a trend among Average Joes to start buying small amounts of precious metals, it's nothing to shrug off as insignificant. The complete opposite, in fact.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:27 | 3490035 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

In many cases that would be true.

But, I buy 1/10ths as well as one oz AGEs...

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:46 | 3490079 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

McM,

Sounds good.

Here are the production figures.

1/10 oz coins are 30,000 oz. out of 476,000 total gold ounces of Mint production in 2013.

http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/american_eagles/index.cfm?action=sal...

Multiply that number of oz. by 10x and you can see how much machine time they would occupy.  If overall demand is increasing, it would make sense to stop 1/10 oz. production to give more capacity at the high end.  Again, I don't think it is market moving.

 

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:39 | 3490311 macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

you can see how much machine time they would occupy.  If overall demand is increasing, it would make sense to stop 1/10 oz. production to give more capacity at the high end.

 

That would be the logical choice for a business. As I understand it, the US Mint is government. That means there might be a completely different "reason" why production was halted. How about these:

- having the room where the tenths are minted painted, so production had to stop.

- somebody forgot to order the blanks, so production had to stop.

- a birthday party was scheduled for that room, so production had to stop.

- the employees went to political indoctrination at a 5 star hotel in the Catskills, so production had to stop.

 

You can't make this shit up.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:45 | 3490135 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

BRAVO!!!

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:48 | 3490146 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I think it's important to note that the premiums for smaller sized bullion gets progressively higher - so unless a buyer is really focusing on resale in single small denominations, 1/10th/ozs is probably the worst way to buy Au.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:58 | 3490173 knukles
knukles's picture

So carrying on that same Dr. Paul (I used to be an advisor to Enron) Krugman's logic, if I stood for delivery of a 440,000,000 oz bar they might even pay me?

Come on ya little dwarf, where's your sense of humor?  Oh and PS, Paul, I figure that the reason for hiring handicapped such as yourself is they're fun to watch? 


Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:11 | 3490236 Bagbalm
Bagbalm's picture

Some buyers favor small coins anticipating when they will use them. If you are bartering with a farmer for corn, an ounce coin is way too much value in hand. People may end up cutting them - like 'pieces of eight'. And if you are say - trying to bribe a border guard - once he sees the ounce coin he is going to want the whole thing. See how that works?

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:41 | 3490329 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Have to agree, bartertown you will not want big chunks to carry around...junk gold in a way!

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 18:00 | 3490419 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I completely understand the above and tend to agree mostly.  However, even at 1/10 oz sizes, it's still going to be too big for daily expenses (especially if fiat is at the "wheelbarrow" stage).

IMHO Au is for storing/transporting wealth - and maybe making heritage purchases like buying land.  Ag is for the smaller stuff.

Regarding the availability of kg bars, etc.  If I had the ability to mint bullion and physical product was tight - I'd be trying to sell in as small a denomination as possible to maximize the premium.  1/10 oz would be the last thing I'd stop selling.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 22:03 | 3491268 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

Maybe the true motive is to prevent the poor from having access to real wealth.  If I was Soros and wanted 5 Tons of Gold, I bet it could be dug up. But for the rest of us, there's none left.

By the way, while I'm here, I have a few theories. Pure speculation but with some thought behind them.

1. Shortage: Barrick / Chile conflict could be a sham to reduce production.

2. Shortage: Kennecott mine Collapse recently may have been on purpose to halt production.

3. Stortage: Newmont mining has its own issues in Peru.

4. Shortage: The lack of product at retail outlets like Apmex may be due to a plot to limit how much gold / silver we can actually buy.

5. Disincentive: The limitations on gold / silver availability may drive prices higher, but if the fraudsters keep kicking it back down with paper gold, then maybe that entices more people to stick with the $ and put the money elsewhere.

6. Shortage: I sense what could be a concerted effort to restrict the availability of gold / silver at all levels... just read / heard some interviews at King World News with Jim Sinclair and Andrew McGuire. JS says Swiss Bank refused to distribute gold from an allocated account. AM says AMRO was the first, LBMA is defaulting and the smackdown in the paper market was to cover the cash cost for the buyout that is being forced on those trying to withdraw.

 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 12:38 | 3493287 Road Hazard
Road Hazard's picture

I vote # 6 as the truth behind the PM smackdown.

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 00:35 | 3496189 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

no, I already spend more than this on a regular basis for needed things. Combine tools & food, soil & lumber and you’re good to go. Lawnmower? Good to go. Snowblower? Good to go. Tools for auto-mechanics ? Good to go. 1/10th x a few is fine, larger amounts for larger items IF that person’s willing to take them. Again as another commenter noted, being spotted with the giant-value sized coins means raising LOTS of suspicion about how much more you got. OF that size (1 oz +)

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 00:36 | 3496188 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Or barter. That’s my reason for having both silver ounces and 1/10th gold.

If you believe that barter will be needed because dollars will be money then 1/10th gold and silver 1 oz is the BEST choice along with junk silver, not giant bars of gold you can’t trade to anyone because everyone else is broke. For the same reason I wouldn’t carry ONLY $100 bills and when they were used, $1000 bills. Seen plenty of those but should I stack them? NO. Are they still legal currency? Yes BUT… in a trade-for-need situation that will do me NO good at all.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 01:54 | 3491769 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

@ McM

Or they believe they'll need to use them as money some day soon (small denominations).

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:40 | 3490106 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Like he said, paid per post.  You are overpaid ;-)

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:43 | 3490337 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

No Pinto, share your vast knowledge first..  We await your enlightenment with great alacrity.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:48 | 3490360 cornflakesdisease
cornflakesdisease's picture

OK, one of New Jersey's largest coin sellers has absolutely nothing left; and I mean he had 55 gallon drums worth of junk silver in his basement storage a months ago and he has nothing.  He said he is desperate to buy.  It's not usual for him to do several millon in sales per week of coins.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:54 | 3490389 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

LCS out of silver. Gold is limited.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 04:27 | 3491912 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Righto then, time to go for the Pt and Pd!

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 18:16 | 3490495 1000924014093
1000924014093's picture

You too!

 

Oh, wait . . .

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:37 | 3490300 Campagnolo
Campagnolo's picture

I placed an order from damn Tulving a week ago and karen said it will take a month or more, never before it was that slow she said because big shipment are going out of the country!!, geez, I called Heinz Tulving and the guy said to me: "if you don't like it then fuck you, you have to wait like the rest"....aaaiight, I said, gezz, Tulving is a very hostile man, his chances of a coronary disease are very high. 

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:42 | 3490336 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Tulving is a very hostile man, his chances of a coronary disease are very high.

This is likely why he exercises (runs at specific hours)evey day, WHO wants to do business with anyone that chews their ass off(after they have your coins), and talks to you like an African Miner?.

NO thanks.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 18:04 | 3490432 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

think of tulving as the soup nazi.

he is good, there is a reason people go to him.

but you're not the first one to say that he wont suffer fools lightly.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 22:07 | 3491274 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

It might be a little stressful for him right now.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 04:35 | 3491922 akak
akak's picture

Tulving the Gold Nazi:

"No metal for you!"

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 00:45 | 3496210 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

should have offered him a trade of angina pills for quicker shipping time :D

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:03 | 3489917 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Walked into a local coin shop last week to buy and a young blue collar worker walked in to buy $100 worth of silver - I almost shead a tear.

Wished I would have striked up a conversation with him!

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:38 | 3490096 Midas
Midas's picture

Is this what the director meant when he told Kyle Bass, "Price will solve everything"?

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:04 | 3489931 fonzannoon
Tue, 04/23/2013 - 18:29 | 3490547 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

$28.50 for a 1 oz. Silver American Eagle.

WS price for 1 ounce of silver: $22.93

So....  Yeah.  Is the Wall St. price inaccurate?  Or did premiums go through the roof in 2 weeks?

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 18:56 | 3490665 DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

Look just a tad deeper. Half of the silver offerings, including 1oz ASE's are "ship outside of the US" only.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 18:58 | 3490673 AL_SWEARENGEN
AL_SWEARENGEN's picture

These kitco Cocksuckerz  "Due to high demand, this product is only available outside of the US. If you are looking to buy this product, please call us toll-free at 1-877-775-4826."

 

 

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 18:52 | 3490645 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

So let me get this straight

You are gonna the BTFD all the way to $1

hmm..

Ok

What happens when you go to zero and the OSAMA confiscates it???

Boy now wouldn't that be a fucking black swan.

It is just possible that the party is over for now??

I mean 12 years and you still cry about JPM>>>

 

Jesus Christ they would be broke by now...

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 19:54 | 3490861 machineh
machineh's picture

So volume is high and inventory is low in physical gold.

But no one has yet demonstrated how to arbitrage between 'physical' and 'paper' gold for a profit.

Simple fact is, you can't.

Gold is a big market and there is one price, with minor discounts and premiums according to the vehicle.

Trying to read gold's future price through temporary inventory shortages is a sucker's game. 

 

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:40 | 3489800 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

The retail market apparently DOES become a real event when there is no supply of bullion EVEN IF the reason is its going east by the tonnage.........When there is no supply then even my contract becomes an issue

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:43 | 3489818 Au Shucks
Au Shucks's picture

Exactly right Beanie Bone... and it is exactly because the retail market is a small factor that the current retail market shortage speaks VOLUMES as to the real situation. 

 

I love it when stupid comments disprove themselves without any effort required.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:59 | 3489893 Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

The disconnect has arrived!!! I am convinced as is Ron Paul and Caseyresearch.com that the spot price is no longer the value of physical but the value of the paper market which will continue to decline especially when all the physical is gone

http://goldsilver.com/video/ron-paul-on-gold-no-one-knows-value-i-m-buying

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:07 | 3489942 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

Here is another article supporting you about premiums on physical for Indian demand.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-04-23/indian-jewelers-offer-premiu...

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 00:44 | 3496211 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

indeed, soon the combination of what goes up will be bullion coins and GLD PUTS as both will go up in price at the same time. If SLV is destined to go down while silver goes up then it seems not worth the paper to even try that. I’m using slv calls even so, 2014, just in case paper goes up again. Got my shiney first, of course. THANKFUL my sunshine mint bars came in before everyone started screaming about no inventory… literally the day before.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:24 | 3490022 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Retail just not prepared. Junk me junk PM holders, but good
delivery bars a plenty everywhere, premium unchanged.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 19:03 | 3490693 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

A good delivery bar is 400 oz equals a peasants hut or half
or double thereof depending on location. No big deal.

This used to be an investment site and discussing the sale of another second home and switching it to PM should still
not raise eyebrows , much less some good delivery bars.

Boat accidents galore , for sure. With treasure island far
off only a few would make it, agreed.

But we are still talking about the money of kings you are
holding.

It is worthless in the hands of peasants.

Small denominations in short supply ?

Feed the black swans with your small change.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 20:12 | 3490842 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

You wouldn't happen to be Chauncey Gardiner, would you?

President "Bobby": Mr. Gardner, do you agree with Ben, or do you think that we can stimulate growth through temporary incentives?

[Long pause]

Chance the Gardener: As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in the garden.

President "Bobby": In the garden.

Chance the Gardener: Yes. In the garden, growth has it seasons. First comes spring and summer, but then we have fall and winter. And then we get spring and summer again.

President "Bobby": Spring and summer.

Chance the Gardener: Yes.

President "Bobby": Then fall and winter.

Chance the Gardener: Yes.

Benjamin Rand: I think what our insightful young friend is saying is that we welcome the inevitable seasons of nature, but we're upset by the seasons of our economy.

Chance the Gardener: Yes! There will be growth in the spring!

Benjamin Rand: Hmm!

Chance the Gardener: Hmm!

President "Bobby": Hm. Well, Mr. Gardner, I must admit that is one of the most refreshing and optimistic statements I've heard in a very, very long time.

[Benjamin Rand applauds]

President "Bobby": I admire your good, solid sense. That's precisely what we lack on Capitol Hill.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 04:32 | 3491920 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Peter Sellers was so blindingly brilliant in that part!  Did you see the out-takes where he was cracking up?

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 07:16 | 3492058 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Yes, he was a gift from God.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:47 | 3489837 redpill
redpill's picture

If it's so small, why do they keep running out?

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 19:55 | 3490865 machineh
machineh's picture

Because there's a sucker born every day.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 20:22 | 3490950 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

So everyone is debasing their fiat currency and buying gold and silver (historically the wisest thing to do) is a sucker's bet? Yeah, right. Sooner or later this thing is going to break. You're telling us not to buy insurance when a cat 11 hurricane is about to 2 miles from making landfall and we all have huts on the coast. That isn't very nice.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 03:48 | 3491870 jeebuswept
jeebuswept's picture

Yeah, it's the swallowers that are harder to come by...

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 18:30 | 3490549 pacu44
pacu44's picture

umm, its "THE" only market... Thats the whole point...

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:55 | 3489778 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

Did you see the premium APMEX is asking for on junk silver?  It's nearly 40%

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:05 | 3489926 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Sweet!

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 19:59 | 3490871 machineh
machineh's picture

Do you understand the difference between bid and ask?

'Da Bugz' on full retard.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:17 | 3489993 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

I wonder how much I can get on premium for sterling silver if I sell it to a refiner?

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:34 | 3490076 DosZap
DosZap's picture

I wonder how much I can get on premium for sterling silver if I sell it to a refiner?

Likey spot on the refined amount of pure.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:50 | 3490134 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

I figure if there is a real shortage due to demand they should be paying above what they normally pay since the cost is just going to get passed down to the next guy in line, so on and so forth until the end point which is the retail buyer. I know 1 ounce in sterling is equivalent to about 85% pure silver in troy ounces. That is it's true scrap price dependent upon spot for pure silver.

In normal times you'd be lucky to get around 30% of spot for pure silver in most cases. I've accumulated a bunch of crap through the years from doing various odd jobs like cleaning out houses and some of that stuff includes old sterling silverware. I'm thinking now would be a good time cash that stuff in for scrap.

 

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:07 | 3490229 SamuelMaverick
SamuelMaverick's picture

Refiners only pay 90% of spot for sterling and scrap silver . My refiner will pay spot for silver bullion and coins.  Gold gets 96% spot for scrap, and spot for bullion and coins.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 20:04 | 3490886 machineh
machineh's picture

Thanks for posting the ugly truth.

No amount of coin shortages will change this. Wake up, folks. 

The same precious metal scammers were in full cry in 1981, as gold settled in for a 20-year snooze.

Now it's their retarded stepchildren striking up the same familiar tune of the 'professional' Realtor: 'Buy now, before prices go up (sucker)!'

Play it again, Sam. Some folks need frequent repetition to learn.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:23 | 3490016 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

And so the "stackers" get fooled again with their dreams of doom.

You can get silver and gold for not much over spot pretty easily:

https://comparesilverprices.com/

http://comparegoldprices.com/

 

 

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:44 | 3490129 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Hey Einstein,

The lowest premium on 90% junk silver is 23%.  For silver eagles its 18.6%.  Maybe you should try reading what you post.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:54 | 3490163 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I notice it's a 6 week ETA for Maple orders too.  JFC!

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 20:05 | 3490894 machineh
machineh's picture

Hope is not an investment strategy.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:53 | 3490165 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

I don't think those prices include shipping costs either.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:59 | 3490191 knukles
knukles's picture

Nor the service charge for the gubamint to access the credit card purchase records of the buyers.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:48 | 3490141 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

You will have to define "pretty easy".

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:07 | 3489940 astoriajoe
astoriajoe's picture

saw that too. When do maples sell over eagles?!

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:57 | 3490180 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

ScotiaBank Edmonton said see you in May. We wont have any new inventory for any bullion till May.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:59 | 3490412 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Spitzer...

Just as well scotiabank is out.

They are about as Anti-Gold as they get,or should I say as anti-gold as kitco and Jon Nadler.

AND SCOTIA'S PREMIUMS AND PROCEEDURES ARE RETARDED.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:14 | 3489969 A. Magnus
A. Magnus's picture

I used to do business with Kitco until they decided to make $2500 the minimum order amount for anything. They can lick the crust off my sack now, as they totally fucked up my dollar cost averaging program...

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:17 | 3489995 DosZap
DosZap's picture

I used to do business with Kitco until they decided to make $2500 the minimum order amount for anything. They can lick the crust off my sack now, as they totally fucked up my dollar cost averaging program...

Damn, that's low.My dealer is 10k, and most are min 5k-6k.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:33 | 3490071 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin''s picture

My guy still has a few things left.....probably going to buy 400 more oz tomorrow.

 

 

I'm kinda bloated in 10 oz bars now, I'd like to have some more variety, but you take what you can get.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:01 | 3490195 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

My local B&M is comparible to the online places in price and has no minimum.  

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 00:46 | 3496220 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Silvergoldbull.com has NO minimum.

That’s what’s fair & in play.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:19 | 3489994 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

And those damn Canucks have no silver bars left.  In any size.  Even Canadian beaver size.

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 00:47 | 3496223 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

silvergoldbull.com keeps refilling, I keep checking. It’s Canuckian.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:38 | 3490316 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

I've been using Gainseville Coins for a long time now. Silver Eagles are $6.35 over spot, a major disconnect from the paper market. They are unable to ship until 5/17. Lots of inventory is "temporarily out of stock". Yeah, everything is a-ok.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 19:57 | 3490860 The Heart
The Heart's picture

"Kitco has silver eagles $6 over spot and maples $7 over spot..."

Greetings T.

So ah, a few questions for debate among all crew comes before the Mast in regards to the Silver and Gold Eagles. Because they say USofA (abrev) on them, and also dollar, the question is, who exactly owns them, and will those owners come confiscate them some time in the not too distant chaotic future?

Part two: In a confiscation situation, and of the various forms of silver and gold, which exactly are the babylonians most likely to steal from everyone?

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 23:59 | 3491579 The_Gold_Standard
The_Gold_Standard's picture

Everybody is out. Long delays everywhere. I just ordered from Liberty Coins and Precious Metals... About a 4 week delay on 100 ounce silver bars.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:34 | 3489750 Spider
Spider's picture

Lets get those HFT's going!  Looking for a flash crash to negative gold prices!

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:29 | 3490045 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

When its negative, the CBs can pay ME to take their gold off of their hands.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:35 | 3489751 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

These mints are old and antiquated, they were not built to keep up with this type of demand.

Do not confuse this with a gold shortage!

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:37 | 3489777 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

they have the capacity to keep up with demand...they dont have the product....

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:40 | 3489785 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Wrong, then how are they still producing other sizes?

The smaller sizes are more time intense - hence the larger premiums!

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:02 | 3489869 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthread.php?45661-US-Mint-shortage-of-SAE...

im looking for article i read earlier to link it for you...just havn't found it yet....but it went on to say that it has been modernized to produce a cant remember the number...also the san fran mint picks up 15 to 20 percent of load....i will find it...found it....

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:03 | 3489921 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

The U.S. Mint has temporarily suspended sales of its one-tenth ounce American Eagle gold bullion coins because of inventory depletion due to strong demand,

Pladizow is at least onto something correct...1/10th ounce? Who even buys that? File this under non-event. 

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:15 | 3489980 A. Magnus
A. Magnus's picture

I had about half a dozen of those coins until that unfortunate and freakish boating accident a few years back...lost the 1/4 and 1/2oz coins too in that calamity...

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:21 | 3490008 Taffy Lewis
Taffy Lewis's picture

Who even buys that?

Either Joe Sixpack because that's all that he can afford and/or preppers that want a form of coin to buy stuff and/or people like me that want to stuff their pockets and carry-ons with gold when they move to SE Asia.

I wouldn't file that as a non-event.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:35 | 3490084 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

When they start selling 1/10oz silver coins, then it might be a good time to load up on AAPL stock.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:55 | 3490167 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

http://silvergoldbull.com/silver-bullion-1/coins/1-10-walking-liberty-si...

 

let me know your dollar cost average bigg boi.

 

 

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:57 | 3490183 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Isn't that pretty much what junk silver dimes are?

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:22 | 3490261 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

based on my admittedly poor math shooting from the hip, indeed.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:33 | 3490072 BeepBeepImAJeep
BeepBeepImAJeep's picture

Middle class, working stiffs that don't have the extra income to get an entire oz of gold at a time? I can think of at least 10 people in my family that have at least one of these. So to answer your question, probably a lot of people since the Mint seems to be running out. 

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:53 | 3490159 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Middle class, working stiffs that don't have the extra income to get an entire oz of gold at a time? I can think of at least 10 people in my family that have at least one of these. So to answer your question, probably a lot of people since the Mint seems to be running out. 

Save up for the bars, no offence but you're being ripped off big time buying those. 

Even if you had millions of people buying 1/10 coins it's totally irrelevant to gold price. 

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 00:49 | 3496229 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

no offense but if you intend to sell them later to anyone but a bank you better have 1/10th a lot more than 1 oz au.I made up my mind after selling some 1 oz to the bank at great profit that’s the last they would get. They paid dearly for ‘em and wanted them badly no matter what.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:54 | 3490161 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

I consider the 1/10's to be the best thing you can buy actually.  I tend to think about things like fungibility though.  Way too elementary for deep thinking PhD economists and such.  

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 19:24 | 3490777 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

James_Cole: "Pladizow is at least onto something correct...1/10th ounce? Who even buys that? File this under non-event. "

What many/most ppl here dont know is that production capacity is limited by a number of factors that can't be scaled overnight.  Including:  Number of shifts (staff), number of lines (equipment) and the lead time to set up a new line.  Included in a new Line is a new set of molds, which takes weeks to months.

From the sheer volume of gold needed for 1/10 oz (3 gram) and overcoming the above Mfg issues, this is truly a non-event.  But... from the sociological view, that Joe Sixpack is now buying such small amounts, this is very telling.

Regardless of the price of paper/ETF PM, as long as the demand for physical exceeds the marginal cost of gold mines, plus the surcharge from the Mints and the middle-men in the distribution chain, PM will be available.  Real or contrived panicking only causes supply-chain disclocations, not the availability of it basic supply.  

If TPTB (JPM, GS, PBoC) decide to drop the price of ETF gold futures further, they will only fuel that panic to convert ETF into bullion, thus making the supply shortage worse, and lead to other monetary problems.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 19:00 | 3490683 Toronto Kid
Toronto Kid's picture

For the article, thank you kindly.

May I direct you to the following video? Rick Mercer has the Mint employees hyperventilating at one point ...

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 19:35 | 3490803 Toronto Kid
Toronto Kid's picture

It's always nice to actually provide the link ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iFiH78ltS0

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 23:20 | 3491477 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

Ya I heard of that - the shortage is policy based due to US Mint sourcing from certain suppliers and having other potentials jump through hoops to get access to supplier status.

 

Interesting nonetheless...

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:02 | 3489916 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

link provided in other post

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:17 | 3489991 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

and 1 more thing plad....if you are charging 300 dollars over spot, you may have more than lets say apmex that charges like 79.00 over spot...

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:56 | 3490176 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin''s picture

I can get all of the 100 oz bars I want, at the lowest premiums of anything.

 

 

 

What's that tell ya?

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:00 | 3490196 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Name your supplier, please.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 19:42 | 3490823 Squiddly Diddly
Squiddly Diddly's picture

Crickets.....................

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 23:22 | 3491482 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

he be talkin 100oz bars o aluminum.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:25 | 3490262 Croesus
Croesus's picture

@ Pladizow:

Wrong:

The smaller sizes are not more time intense. It takes just as much effort to cut the working die, and the hub die for a 1/10th oz. coin as it does to cut the die set for a 1 ounce coin. The machines take care of the rest.

Coin production starts with the arrival of coils—rolled-up strips of flat metal.  Coils are about a foot wide, 1500 feet long, and about as thick as the final coin thickness.  Each coil weighs close to 6,000 pounds. From those coils, plain round discs, called planchets are stamped out.

The planchets are annealed, and then sent for minting in the presses.

The mint is still producing other sizes, because they still have coils in for those sizes. The webbing from the coils is also recycled into new coils.

"Why are the premiums larger, on smaller denomination coins"?

The US Mint is one of the few government agencies that actually turns a profit (or at least it did). The premium on smaller denomination has to do with the fact that it's easier to sell $200, than it is to sell $1,500.

 

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:41 | 3490325 Conax
Conax's picture

Also, a 1/10th oz shirt button is still a coin, and has to be struck on a press.  Same as a buffalo.  You have to pay fab costs.

Then there's the wages of the geezer they must have chasing them across the floor before they go down the cracks..

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:48 | 3490362 DosZap
DosZap's picture

The smaller sizes are more time intense - hence the larger premiums!

 

COST of the dies, and how much faster they wear out is a prime suspect.

They can mint many times more .25/.5/1oz coins on the same dies(before replacement), than the small tenth oz coins.

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 00:47 | 3496227 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

They’re not, they’re just selling less of the larger sizes.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 17:04 | 3490211 knukles
knukles's picture

Blanks
They ran out of the right sized balnks, dimwits.
Which are prepared by refiner/fabricators/blank suppliers

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:38 | 3489783 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

not buyin this eh pladizow?

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:42 | 3489808 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

I will when the mint simply halts!

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 15:56 | 3489883 kito
kito's picture

1) cant find this link anywhere on the net. can somebody link the reuters article. just not there

2) tyler ran the same post in december 2009 about 1/2 ounce gold coins. 

 

tyler, is there a glitch in the matrix??????

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:01 | 3489909 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Kito nice catch i can't find it either.

Tue, 04/23/2013 - 16:06 | 3489939 kito
kito's picture

a little strange fonz, yes???

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