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America The Fallen: 24 Signs That Our Once Proud Cities Are Turning Into Poverty-Stricken Hellholes

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,

What is happening to you America?  Once upon a time, the United States was a place where free enterprise thrived and the greatest cities that the world had ever seen sprouted up from coast to coast.  Good jobs were plentiful and a manufacturing boom helped fuel the rise of the largest and most vibrant middle class in the history of the planet.  Cities such as Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Philadelphia and Baltimore were all teeming with economic activity and the rest of the globe looked on our economic miracle with a mixture of wonder and envy.  But now look at us.  Our once proud cities are being transformed into poverty-stricken hellholes.

Did you know that the city of Detroit once actually had the highest per-capita income in the United States?  Looking at Detroit today, it is hard to imagine that it was once one of the most prosperous cities in the world.  In fact, as you will read about later in this article, tourists now travel to Detroit from all over the globe just to see the ruins of Detroit.  Sadly, the exact same thing that is happening to Detroit is happening to cities all over America.  Detroit is just ahead of the curve.

We are in the midst of a long-term economic collapse that is eating away at us like cancer, and things are going to get a lot worse than this.  So if you still live in a prosperous area of the country, don't laugh at what is happening to others.  What is happening to them will be coming to your area soon enough.

The following are 24 signs that our once proud cities are turning into poverty-stricken hellholes...

#1 According to the New York Times, there are now approximately 70,000 abandoned buildings in Detroit.

#2 At this point, approximately one-third of Detroit's 140 square miles is either vacant or derelict.

#3 Back during the housing bubble, an acre of land in downtown Phoenix, Arizona sold for about $90 a square foot.  Today, an acre in downtown Phoenix sells for about $9 a square foot.

#4 The city of Chicago is so strapped for cash that it is planning to close 54 public schools.  It is being estimated that Chicago schools will run a budget deficit of about a billion dollars in 2013.

#5 The city of Baltimore is already facing unfunded liabilities of more than 3.2 billion dollars, but the city government continues to pile up more debt as if it was going out of style.

#6 Today, the murder rate in East St. Louis is 17 times higher than the national average.

#7 According to USA Today, the "share of jobs located in or near a downtown declined in 91 of the nation's 100 largest metropolitan areas" between 2000 and 2010.

#8 Between December 2000 and December 2010, 48 percent of the manufacturing jobs in the state of Michigan were lost.

#9 There are more than 85,000 streetlights in Detroit, but thieves have stripped so much copper wiring out of the lights that more than half of them are not working.

#10 The unemployment rate in El Centro, California is 24.2 percent, and the unemployment rate in Yuma, Arizona is an astounding 25.6 percent.

#11 It has been estimated that there are more than 1,000 homeless people living in the massive network of flood tunnels under the city of Las Vegas.

#12 Violent crime in the city of Oakland increased by 23 percent during 2012.

#13 If you can believe it, more than 11,000 homes, cars and businesses were burglarized in Oakland during 2012.  That breaks down to approximately 33 burglaries a day.

#14 As I have written about previously, there are only about 200 police officers assigned to Chicago's Gang Enforcement Unit to handle the estimated 100,000 gang members living in the city.

#15 The number of murders in Chicago last year was roughly equivalent to the number of murders in the entire country of Japan during 2012.

#16 The murder rate in Flint, Michigan is higher than the murder rate in Baghdad.

#17 If New Orleans was considered to be a separate nation, it would have the 2nd highest murder rate on the entire planet.

#18 According to the Justice Department’s National Drug Intelligence Center,  Mexican drug cartels were actively operating in 50 different U.S. cities in 2006.  By 2010, that number had skyrocketed to 1,286.

#19 Back in 2007, the number of New York City residents on food stamps was about 1 million.  It is now being projected that the number of New York City residents on food stamps will pass the 2 million mark this summer.

#20 The number of homeless people sleeping in the homeless shelters of New York City has increased by a whopping 19 percent over the past year.

#21 As I noted yesterday, approximately one out of every three children in the United States currently lives in a home without a father.

#22 In Miami, 45 percent of the children are living in poverty.

#23 In Cleveland, more than 50 percent of the children are living in poverty.

#24 According to a recently released report, 60 percent of all children in the city of Detroit are living in poverty.

As I mentioned at the top of this article, the decline of the city of Detroit has become so famous that it has actually become a tourist attraction.  The following is a short excerpt from an article in the New York Times...

But in Detroit, the tours go on, in an unofficial capacity. One afternoon at the ruins of the 3.5-million-square-foot Packard Plant, I ran into a family from Paris. The daughter said she read about the building in Lonely Planet; her father had a camcorder hanging around his neck. Another time, while conducting my own tour for a guest, a group of German college students drove up. When queried as to the appeal of Detroit, one of them gleefully exclaimed, “I came to see the end of the world!”

For much more on the shocking decline of one of America's greatest cities, please see my previous article entitled "Bankrupt, Decaying And Nearly Dead: 24 Facts About The City Of Detroit That Will Shock You".

So are there any areas of the country that are still thriving?

Well, yes, there are a few.  In particular, those areas that are sitting on top of energy resources tend to be doing quite well for now.

One example is Texas.  In recent years people have been absolutely flocking to the state.  There are lots of energy jobs, the cost of living is low and there is no state income tax.

But overall, things are really tough out there.  Over the past decade America has lost millions of good jobs to offshoring, advancements in technology and a declining economy.

Last year, the United States had a trade deficit with the rest of the world of more than half a trillion dollars.  Overall, the U.S. has run a trade deficit with the rest of the world of more than 8 trillion dollars since 1975.

All of that money could have gone to U.S. businesses and U.S. workers.  In turn, taxes would have been paid on all of that income which could have helped keep our cities great.

But instead, our politicians have stood idly by as we have lost tens of thousands of businesses and millions of jobs.  If you can believe it, more than 56,000 manufacturing facilities have closed down permanently in the United States since 2001.

We have allowed our economic infrastructure to be absolutely gutted, and so we should not be surprised that our once proud cities are turning into poverty-stricken hellholes.

And this is just the beginning.  The next wave of the economic collapse is rapidly approaching, and when it strikes unemployment in this country will eventually rise to a level that is more than double what it is now.

When that happens, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near our rotting, decaying cities.

Railroad In Milwaukee

 


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Wed, 04/24/2013 - 15:56 | Link to Comment SheepleLOVEched...
SheepleLOVEcheddarbaybiscuits's picture

The conditions of roads in Cleveland are worse than Baghdad. If you doubt this, just go drive on them.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 15:57 | Link to Comment freewolf7
freewolf7's picture

Bring a spare.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 16:10 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

The best hellhole is a legislatively decreed ”gun-free” hellhole.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 16:12 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Once upon a time, the United States was a place where free enterprise thrived and the greatest cities that the world had ever seen sprouted up from coast to coast.  Good jobs were plentiful and a manufacturing boom helped fuel the rise of the largest and most vibrant middle class in the history of the planet. 

Please directly cite this mysterious period of time so we can put it into context.

We have allowed our economic infrastructure to be absolutely gutted, and so we should not be surprised that our once proud cities are turning into poverty-stricken hellholes.

Neo-liberalism at work. Why hire Americans (who have constitutional rights, some labour protections etc.) when you can hire Bangladeshi workers who are forced to slave away in collapsing hell holes? 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/bangladesh-factory-collapse-kills-100-article-1.1325940

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 17:37 | Link to Comment Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

delete

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:19 | Link to Comment Shocker
Shocker's picture

Definitely several areas have been hit hard with the "recession"

Layoff/ Business Closing List

http://www.dailyjobcuts.com

-

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:44 | Link to Comment fourchan
fourchan's picture

1-50 blacks

51-99 mexicans

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:17 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

So, instead of going to Rome to see the Colosseum, or Greece to see the Acropolis, they want to come to America to see the new ruins, specifically Detroit.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:39 | Link to Comment algol_dog
algol_dog's picture

Don't know why any of this is surprising. Cities are unholy & unnatural. A plague against nature and its cyclical laws.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:17 | Link to Comment Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

Spot on algol, people were not meant to be crammed into a city like sardines

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:26 | Link to Comment mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

and they're full of commies until they move to iowa, from chicago, from dc/baltimore/etc to virginia, from nyc/ct to nh, from cali to God knows everywhere.  libs are like locusts, they feast off the productive.  AND we will always defend texas vs the onset of locusts, AMEN.

 

edit...and in detroit, they stay there and do drugs.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 22:07 | Link to Comment white_guy
white_guy's picture

TX is the last stronghold.....we need to build a fence and keep the statists out, they are like moths drawn to the light...

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 23:23 | Link to Comment GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

That would be great. It also would be great if all of you texans stayed in texas instead of coming to Colorado in the summer to clog up the roads, talk loud and just be general pains in the ass. Feel free to stay in your stronghold. The rest of us will be quite happy if you do.

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 00:05 | Link to Comment white_guy
white_guy's picture

that's too bad...colorado is beautiful and i always enjoy my time there....but just as I can't keep you out of tx, you can't keep me out of co.....tolerance is a two way street...you demand it of everyone else...your post isn't showing much of it

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 10:05 | Link to Comment GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

Who started the intolerance on this thread with their blame of everything wrong on people who aren't texans and how they are the true righteous ones who will keep out the unrighteous in their stronghold? Spare me.

I've personally found decent people across the entire political spectrum, just as I've found assholes nearly everywhere. I don't demand tolerance of anyone. I appreciate it, as do most intelligent and sane people. Just because a person isn't a narrow-minded conservative, it doesn't mean they are your stereotypical liberal strawman.

I don't try to keep anyone out of Colorado, hence I won't call it a stronghold. However, it would be nice if the self-righteous assholes stayed wherever they are. We already have enough of those religious crazies over in Colorado Springs. So, if you're not an asshole, my complaint doesn't apply.

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 18:19 | Link to Comment Weisshaupt
Weisshaupt's picture
  1. Oh man, what I wouldn't give for the days when Texans showing up to vacation is Colorado was the biggest problem here. Their vacations ended. They went home. The Locusts from California came, stayed, and  Californicated Colorado.  They mess up a place, realize  its messed up, leave and do it all over again, because they are too stupid and arrogant to ever consider their polices ARE THE REASON the place they left was messed up.  They even passed gun laws here that the Country Sherrifs are refusing to implement. They all crowded into the cities, when this finally erupts in a civil war, those cities will find themselves under siege.  

 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 22:36 | Link to Comment cjbosk
cjbosk's picture

Spot on!

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:28 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

What are you a fucking gazelle? Or do you just not like "those people" being so close to you?

Human contact is an important part of Human development. And not just contact with others that are just like you.

Variety, it was once said, is the spice of life.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 22:58 | Link to Comment zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Algo...Only city dwellers would give you a down vote

The rest of us understand the unnatural environment that cities create. 

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 01:17 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

The only thing positive about Detroit is it is slowly being bulldozed and being reclaimed by nature.  It may become a open meadow someday which would be a vast improvement.

Oddly, you can go to some towns in Europe especially in northern and north central Europe that are 800 + years old and they are quite nice.   It is the people versus vermin in these shitholes in the USA.  

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 03:39 | Link to Comment ClumsyBoatman
ClumsyBoatman's picture

+ 1000

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 22:50 | Link to Comment laomei
laomei's picture

Generally you wait till the natives are long since dead before exploring ruins.  And American buildings have rather shitty ruin-value.  It all just falls apart to nothing.

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 07:16 | Link to Comment Cast Iron Skillet
Cast Iron Skillet's picture

that's why you gotta get to 'em while they're freshly decrepit.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 17:25 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

That Bangladesh factory is an Ayn Rand utopia.the workers were FREE to leave at any time, so what is the bitch. Crying over the dead, when this happened to people freely entering there willingly seeking work? This is the model we should all aspire to. It is the future.

Neo-Liberals have dreamed of this race to the bottom with wages and work conditions, their dreams are coming true.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:27 | Link to Comment Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

In my unnamed city, I can drive on some new boondoggle freeways and spend my time in high income neighborhoods and feel like the world is wonderful.   However, if I ever become adventurous (and I have) and decide to do something like...take common city streets 20 miles from my place to the airport...

30% of what I drive through looks like once great neighborhoods now overcome by weeds (of the plant variety) and weeds of humanity.

50% doesn't even look like freakin America....it looks like a trip to Tijuana or Laredo. (ps..I love Mexico so don't junk me for this...it's just a real observation)

10% looks like some soon to be failed attempt at "revitalization"

10% is just given up on and leveled

by the way, my unnamed city is at the top of the economic growth list for the entire US of A.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:27 | Link to Comment Dyhana
Dyhana's picture

somewhere in Texas by any chance?

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:19 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

I don't know what everyone is bitchin' about.

If you live anywhere near the District of Columbia everything's fine. They're building new highways, extending the HOV down to Richmond, and putting up noise barriers on both sides along every stretch of the beltway.

There's new housing construction, apartments, shopping malls, and jobs galore. And, they just finished the new eight lane Woodrow Wilson bridge across the Potomac river.

If you're willing to bow down to you're new Luciferian masters, kiss his ring, you can have it all too.

(How do I know? I've driven through D.C. at least twice a year for the past ten years.)

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:49 | Link to Comment insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

You forgot to mention they have special tax breaks too.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:54 | Link to Comment mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

i built that!

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:51 | Link to Comment mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

Bettin on san antoine...commie mayor and lots of stinkies...all from the home of you can all go to hell, i goin to tx, AMEN.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:55 | Link to Comment Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture

 

 

I'm guessing Deeeetroit .... I live near by, and yes - a war zone. Use to be big money there - not any more  ...well the demographics has changed a bit (no need to comment further).

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:44 | Link to Comment transfix
transfix's picture

Houston

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 22:10 | Link to Comment Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

lol...yah, of course it's Houston.  My only point was.. ...make my city #100 on the list below...and fill in #25 - #99 with all the other "hellholes" around the country.

 


24 Signs That Our Once Proud Cities Are Turning Into Poverty-Stricken Hellholes

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:08 | Link to Comment kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

To all of you out there that have gulped the government and establishment's propaganda Kool-Aide on economics, here is the deal.

Money, real or currency represents a claim on real goods and services. i.e. money just better facilitates trade of your production for that of others.

As a country's productivity goes up money prices go down including wages, but the amount of goods that one can buy with any particular salary goes up. As a result, you and everyone else are able to produce more per unit of labor and therefore trade your production for more and more variety of goods and services--lifestyles increase and labor gets CHEAPER per unit of it used.

Manufactured money, currency, enables the foreign recipients of said currency to fund capital expansion cheaply and leverage it to increase the productivity of their EXPENSIVE (low productivity) labor. Ultimately the printing country's productivity advantage is destroyed and the people of said economy are left with a huge tab and little means to produce and eliminate the debt--game over.

Just amazes me how many people KNOW that the FedRes and their puppets in gov are responsible for the economic destruction of the American economy and its people but still blame foreign workers.

To paraphrase Carlin, "It's not the Kim or Juan, it's the printed money folks!" And the strangulation of American industry via extractive taxes and regulations have not helped matters either. hujel

 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:26 | Link to Comment The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

What is happening to you America?

We grows tired of having to  make the same argument over and over.  Remember the peak oil crowd? Yeah, those guys. The ones of whom I am a proud card-carrying member. The ones who desparately tried to warn you that this was precisely what was going to happen once the black gold ran out. Remember those guys? Well I do. And I remember the Road Warrior....sorry drifted off there for a sec. I remember them telling you that western civilization would fall apart once the precious stopped flowing. So please, enough with the feigned ignorance. You're not fooling anyone.

BTW, that line from DUNE: "The spice must flow." Substitute oil for spice and it works just as well. Without it all the houses will fall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGqdE1NdMTg

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 22:47 | Link to Comment zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

How long a country can thrive on stolen resources from defenseless Mideasterns on gunpoint?

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:52 | Link to Comment PGR88
PGR88's picture

Or, just bring the workers from their hell-holes to the United States, so they can work for less here.  Then subsidize corporations by giving these workers Foodstamps, welfare, tuition assistance, housing, etc...

Send the jobs overseas for low paid workers, or bring the low-paid workers here.

Either way, its off-shoring.

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 01:14 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

1958

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 16:47 | Link to Comment draug
draug's picture

The Depression will not be televised.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 17:46 | Link to Comment Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

No breadlines thanks to EBT cards.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:32 | Link to Comment BTFDemocracy
BTFDemocracy's picture

Visualization of 'bread lines' if EBT cards could be seen:
http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/food_stamps/food_stamp_nation-S...

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:30 | Link to Comment SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

Nor will it be whispered about, or even thought about by anyone within TPTB or their mouthpieces.  In fact, quite the opposite, stories of a burgeoning and quickening economy, a housing 'recovery' and the 'who cares about debt loads' economic analyses from the likes of Paul Krugman and Jim Cramer will fill the airwaves and mainstream internet sites.  Our own version of Pravda, in all it's ignominy.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:40 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Oh not to worry.
Our (and no leftie rightie arguments here, neither are worth a shit but one rules at the moment and thus catches the flack) Noble Leaders will Ensure that Events such as the In the Name of Social Justice for All, a New and Improved Immigration Policy will Ensure a Massive Wave of Newly Registered Democratic Voters so as to GuaranFuckingTee that the Socialist Redistributive Onerous Anti-social Policies which Created this fucking Mess Beginning with FDR and Forwarded in LBJ's times now Furthered in the Present will Accelerate Said Decline of Empire

The Great Redistribution of Squalor

And no, don't even get me going on the righties, the Fed, etc., etc., etc...

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:45 | Link to Comment GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

As they once said back in the USSR, there is no Isvestia in Pravda.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:22 | Link to Comment KickIce
KickIce's picture

Maybe even is not being televised?

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:29 | Link to Comment The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

Oh yeah it will. GSH was dead wrong about that. You'll be able to watch the riots, the diasporas, the wars LIVE on CNN. Fuck yes it will be televised.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:17 | Link to Comment Jeremy Roenick
Jeremy Roenick's picture

This looks like a job for....   Snake Plissken!

 

 

 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 16:15 | Link to Comment ThaBigPerm
ThaBigPerm's picture

Bring an FJ Cruiser.  With a spare.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:06 | Link to Comment de3de8
de3de8's picture

Only a Raptor would hold up.

Mon, 04/29/2013 - 12:36 | Link to Comment Heartstone001
Heartstone001's picture

And a loaded gun!

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 16:07 | Link to Comment Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

LIBERAL cesspools. One and all.

We tried to turn Detroit into an egalitarian oasis.

Instead of Sweden or Switzerland......we got Somalia.

 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 16:29 | Link to Comment you enjoy myself
you enjoy myself's picture

yep.  the one trait all of these failed cities share is that they've been run by democrat supermajorities for 40-50 years.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 17:38 | Link to Comment New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

2013-50=1963, and you sir are about right.

'cuz LBJ really had a need.

- Ned

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:11 | Link to Comment DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

Liberals/statists never take any responsibility for anything, ever!

 

Obama could take a crap on the front lawn of the White House in front of God and everybody, and liberals would just think, Oh, how wonderful...look at how green he is. 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:52 | Link to Comment tsx500
tsx500's picture

purely coincidental !     ;>)

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:23 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

A lot can also be blamed on the large black population. The greatest revenge the South could perpetrate on the North after the Civil War was to send as many ignorant african-americans to work in the northern factories as they could.

Yeah, the Union freed the slaves, and then they sowed what they reaped.

Sometimes, payback can be a real bitch.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:44 | Link to Comment Jon Bong Jovi
Jon Bong Jovi's picture

As someone who lives in the South, the "smarter" blacks left when they had a chance. It's the idiots that stayed behind.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:50 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

In the 1950s and 60s, liberal programs eviscerated the many functioning working class black communities around the entire country. Nearly everything racists point to is a result of this and has occurred in the last 60 years. Liberals avoid blame by pointing frantically to the "civil rights movement" and shouting "we did that!". Racists get confused because the two overlapped in time almost exactly, but most people know absolutely nothing about the liberal program to transform, and by that I mean totally destroy, black communities, which began the 50s. They succeeded beyond anyone's wildest dreams.

Any other historical myths that need clearing up?

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 01:16 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Oh bullshit.  Those cities all lost jobs and factories by the thousands over the last 40 years. Global capitalism much?

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 16:43 | Link to Comment SeanJKerrigan
SeanJKerrigan's picture

You have no idea what a liberal even is. Here's a hint. It has nothing to do with spending money. Stop misusing words.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 16:48 | Link to Comment draug
draug's picture

He isn't, the so-called liberal money spenders are.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 17:13 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Fine, let's use the word Statist.  Now find me a present-day liberal who isn't a statist.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 17:58 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Ditto for conservatives.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:43 | Link to Comment SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

There's a pretty big difference between true conservatives - say of the William F. Buckley variety, and the republican establishment.  I would say the same of libertarians who started, or drift in and out of, the republican party.  The one difference I see is that the republican party has contained in the not too distant past, or has recently ejected or seen a fleeing of these libertarian and conservative wings, while the the democrat party is hopelessly lost in its useless utopian dreaming and pandering to its special interests.  To be sure both parties are now panderers to special interests.  It is the republican party though, that is seeing some within and without fight its establishment to better reflect it's historic 'smaller government' rhetoric.  I suppose the similarity in the democrat party's history is the rhetoric that it's 'for the working man/for the working person' which is a patent joke now, as much as the republicans are for 'smaller government.'  Yes, the parties, and indeed the two party system of politics in the US is hopelessly broken and in need of reset, every bit as much as our monetary and banking system is.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:12 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

"I am KC and I approve this message." ;-)

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:42 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Congrats nmewn, you just formally made the UknoWho List.
LOL

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:07 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...dammit knukles, they're not paying me the least bit of attention...I may have to update my profile from common bitter-clinger to Dr.Gosnell biographer and Youtube producer/provocateur of Mexican jihadis instructing on the proper use of RPG's!

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:05 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

That's bullshit...  the two are practically indistinguishable...  the biggest issue is that the MSM (and common culture) misuses the term liberal by substituting it with "democrat"...  The simple fact is that both republicans and democrats are liberals in that they both desire the growth of the state, federal especially.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:46 | Link to Comment SeanJKerrigan
SeanJKerrigan's picture

Wrong. See this is what I'm saying. Orwell wrote about this. The destruction of language inhibits our ability to even discuss whats really going on.

It may seem a minor point, but liberals, by definition, believe in limited government.  Now limited may be pretty broad, and liberals by definition may desire to use the state to expand liberty, but real liberals are not statists.  To be a liberal is not some relative statement that moves depending on where the nation is at any given time. There are certain ground rules.

In Edmund Burke's time would have said that state intervention to expand liberty of ANY kind was liberalism and should be pursued carefully and slowly. He was the pan-ultimate conservative, but he was also a believer in liberal ideals of self-government.

I'd argue that neither Democrats, nor Republicans, nor socialists are truly liberal -- they are as someone above said, statist first and foremost. Fascist probably a close second. To be a liberal or conservative means that you care about the social fabric. They do not. That they call themselves liberals or conservatives is immaterial. They too have partaken in the destruction of language.

TLDR: A liberal seeks to use the state to expand liberty. A conservative wants to preserve liberty. A statist wants to eliminate liberty.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:19 | Link to Comment McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I've had the "definition of liberal" argument with my parents in the past, but I determined that trying to reclaim the original meaning of the word liberal will be about as successful as trying to reclaim the original meaning of the word gay.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:52 | Link to Comment GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Trying to define or reclaim the meanings of words can be difficult, particularly if one is a Yalie and can't quite decide what the meaning of 'is' is. Unfortunately, as another Yalie recently asked, what difference does it make?

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:47 | Link to Comment LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

Well played sir, well played.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:53 | Link to Comment Captain Benny
Captain Benny's picture

Welcome to 1984 newspeak... :-( 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:58 | Link to Comment The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

I call bullshit....

A liberal seeks to use the state to expand liberty.

Liberal activist in this country have done very little of expanding liberty but more of interceding in political/social arenas and stealing rights from the majority to confer privileges to minorities in an attempt to quell the power of the majority.  Along the way they twisted every law to allow them to easily manipulate the system and therefore the majority beholder to it. 

As an example look at how the ACLU launches action after action for minor causes that ever time have some outcome that increasingly whittles away at the rights of the majority.  And how do they do this....by passing laws early on that force the majority to pay for their legal claims and costs, no matter the basis.  Man...I could only imagine the damage I could do given a free lawyer to sue anything that moves.  But that is their privilege that they have encoded into the system

And that is how we get here today....a majority, tormented by an entire conglomerated special interest (read 'minorities'), political hacks, and every other human parasite that has realized it can attach itself to the republic and majority, leaching off of it by 'rights' established by the liberal activists.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:20 | Link to Comment SeanJKerrigan
SeanJKerrigan's picture

I understand you. The groups you mention call themselves liberals. Other people call them liberals. So, in a sense, your right, the meaning of the word has changed since the 1950s.

Lionel Trilling said that America was a nation almost entirely consisting of liberals that "there are [were] no conservative ideas in circulation." He did not mean that everyone was in favor of redistribution of power on a massive scale, rather that the government had the ability to play around at the edges of society to better things for everyone. It may be erronious, but that's part of what it means to be a liberal. People then take that activism and take it in weird and unjustifiable directions.

The difference between a classical liberal and what we'll call a "contemporary liberal" is similar to the difference between Thomas Jefferson and the ACLU.  No one before the 1960s would EVER have called Thomas Jefferson a conservative. He's about as classically liberal as they come (and yet we sometimes hear that today). It is wrong to say that some activist groups are more liberal than he is, because they take things outside the realm of liberalism and into the realm of active societal restructuring.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. I think we can re-take the word because for every 10 idiots, there's usually 1 person who has an inkling of what I'm trying to say. But if all you do is listen to Fox or MSNBC you'll never be able to parse out the truth. Retaking the word is important because, as Orwell implied, language gives you the power to resist.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:41 | Link to Comment The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

I understand your point and agree with you. 

The problem with your argument though is that it distracts people from the real issues at hand by trying to get them lost in semantic argument.  Language changes over time and therefore the arguments shift with them.  Semantic speech is for lawyers and politicians.  The rest of us are a little more black and white, right vs. wrong.  That may end up being less nuanced then you like, but where we are today, I think the time for nuance is gone and things are getting closer to conflict.  So throw out the semantic speech and start being honest about the way things are.

 

PS...semantics are also the tools of the PC establishment to try and control everyone....another reason to observe them critically.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:53 | Link to Comment The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

I agree with your keen observations. Bill Maher likes to call himself a "liberal" but he's as far from liberal as it gets. Bill Maher is a statist with a capital STATIST. Yet millions tune in to HBO each week presuming this guy speaks for the left. The hell he does.

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 10:08 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

First, Orwell's primary warning was with the concerted effort to control people through the "destruction" (manipulation) of language.  There is also a natural force, acting concurrently with the purposeful manipulation of the language, that is purely natural and inherent in culture, which is the changing of meanings over time/generations.  Sometimes it is incredibly difficult to distinguish between the two and, without setting the ground work (arguments) for the purposeful manipulation of the terms, I think you're overstretched and shouldn't invoke Mr. Orwell to bolster your claims.  [You've also got Hanlon's Razor to deal with][PS, Huxley was more right].

Second, you're splitting hairs, at best.

Third, your definition of liberal is attempting to land a 747 on the head of a needle at best, and inconsistent at worst.  I'll posit that there is no practical mechanism in which to "use the state to expand liberty" because no one rings a bell once we've crossed the rubicon into statism or "less" liberty.  Given that laws are only added to the books, not removed, then liberalism necessarily entails statism on a long enough timeline.  Liberals are THE mechanism in which the top of the food chain is assured its just rent.

While you might say that liberals would only "carefully" expand the state to ensure liberty, I'll posit that humans are incapable of such delicate balance and insight...  and, even if a few might be capable, those few will never be the sole arbiters of the size and scope of government...  hence our teeter-totter affair with governance. 

 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 17:43 | Link to Comment New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

SeanJK: please elucidate, 'cuz there are a dozen-plus folks here who think that you are full of shit.

"You have no idea what a liberal even is. Here's a hint. It has nothing to do with spending money."

So, lad, what the fuck does it have to do?

- Ned

{prepositions are bad words to end sentences with}

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:36 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

I think he nailed it down pretty good just above.

The classical liberal is pretty much like a lot of us, that is, more what is described as libertarian today. Even among libertarians there will be those who come down on one side of "societal issues" and others who go the other way. But they all agree in smaller federal government.

We have to remember, Reagan used the word "liberal" to bludgeon "progressives"...ie socialists...and did a damned good job of it but every action has a consequence...its now stuck in the public mind that all liberals are big government socialists.

Bush expanded LBJ's program (Pills for Seniors...lol) so he, in my view, was just as bad, even if for a heartfelt reason or simple vote buying...its unacceptable. It needs to be uprooted at the state level not added to or dicked around with at the edges on a federal level.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:12 | Link to Comment DIgnified
DIgnified's picture

You're thinking of "classical liberalism", which is not leftist liberalism.  There's more than one flavor. One might question your credibility in lecturing on word definitions, when it appears that the concept of multiple definitions eludes you. 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:23 | Link to Comment RebelDevil
RebelDevil's picture

+1 Historical Liberalism is TOTALLY different from modern American Liberalism.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:56 | Link to Comment John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Indeed, both Hayek and Mises would be and were in their day considered classical liberals.  And no one who has read either would consider them statists-they were both great advocates of individual freedom and very limited roles of government (mainly national defense).  Now-a-days, liberals=progressives=statists.  Only liberatarians as represented by the great Ron Paul retain those central tenets  of freedom and individual responsibility that has always been the hallmark of classical liberalism a la  Adam Smith and Thomas Jefferson (or my favorite Thomas Paine).  If conservative were to mean a desire to return to those values of our founders it would still retain its original meaning too.  Goldwater, for example, was a great authentic conservative and if he not LBJ had won in 1964, we would have little or no national debt and well as no social welfare programs which are destroying this countries finances such as medicare, medicaid etc. 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:08 | Link to Comment de3de8
de3de8's picture

And they are never wrong.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:14 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Both Sweden and Switzerland have a homogeneous population. Detroit does not.

Stop the BS and PC deflections.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:17 | Link to Comment mumcard
mumcard's picture

Switzerland still has tough immigration policies.  Sweden isn't as lucky.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IDBxPLp3i0

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 22:10 | Link to Comment Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

I see this same scourage in Columbus, Ohio. They have the 3rd largest Somali population in the world, and it's a curse on a whole zone of the city. 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:00 | Link to Comment Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"LIBERAL cesspools. One and all"

come on...Germany's a "socialist" country...and they're doing all right....

On the other hand there are places in right-wing, bible-toting, deep south, "bubba country" that are economic basket cases.

It's CULTURE that counts, above everything else...

all those cities listed in the article have large african-american or mexican populations...

It's Culture

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:08 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Name a single "economic basket case" in the Deep South that doesn't have a huge black population. 

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 01:19 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Name one in the north that hasn't seen manufacturing jobs vanish by the tens of thousands.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 22:02 | Link to Comment The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

My understanding is that Germany has so much wind power that part of the time it can't even be utilized and has to be shunted out of the grid. If that's Fast Fail Forward Socialism then hell yeah, I say go socialism. That's partly drollery, but seriously, why can't we do that here in the US? 1/4 of the country is desert where sun shines all the fucking time. The wind blows on the great plains states down through the Colorado corridor 300 days a year. Seriously. We can't follow Germany's lead? Bullshit.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:02 | Link to Comment silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

still bitter, conservatives would prefer to still have slaves, then  we wouldnt have all these liberal cess pools just factory goulags with 7 day work weeks 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:58 | Link to Comment Fiat Envy
Fiat Envy's picture

The blue team is the pro slavery team.  

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:40 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

"I'll have those niggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years."-LBJ

The truth hurts...sometimes. Other times, its very revealing.

(No smiley face on that shit, thats what he thought and did)

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 22:11 | Link to Comment The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

"Fucking Niggers!"

--Dave Chapelle

(This from a Dave Chapelle running joke where anytime something goes wrong you blame black people (a variant on the ZH joo haters). So a drought in Texas destroys the crops, creates dustorms and kills all the longhorn cattle...Man shakes his fist at God. Fuckin' niggers!)

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 01:00 | Link to Comment The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

I can't believe nobody on ZH found that funny. I thought it was hilarious. Oh well. Can't win 'em all. I defer to the crowd.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 20:41 | Link to Comment Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

haha. cute. Except negroes really do cause crime, dysfunction, and urban decay. You had the truth in sight and then backed away from it.

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 01:21 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Then there are the fools who still believe that the two "teams" are really that different.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:19 | Link to Comment psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

Twelve Obamaville cities (e.g., Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, etc.) account for 25% of all murders in the USSA.  These shitholes have the murder rate of your typical failed states around the world (e.g., Rwanda, Sierra Leone, Zimbabwe, etc.). 

The welfare state begat the fatherless, dysfunctional families... which begat the gang members... who are responsible for an estimated 80% of the crimes in the USSA.  Along with the welfare state, the government's War on Some Drugs and other police-state-enabling policies are also a huge factor (just as prohibition caused crime rates to explode).  The government has "helped" black families all the way from an illegitimate birth rate in single digit percentages to one that's ~70%.  The white underclass isn't far behind in this metric.

This is what government "help" and "protection" looks like. 

Mindless, authority-worshipping, do-gooder morons on both the right and left have conspired with government to destroy the country.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:43 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

"The government has "helped" black families all the way from an illegitimate birth rate in single digit percentages to one that's ~70%."

+ 1

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:48 | Link to Comment Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Sweden and Switzerland are made by white people. Detroit and Somalia are made by black people. QED. Race is paramount to political affiliation.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 16:31 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

"Once proud cities..."

With all due respect - most of em have always been shitholes - they just got a lot worse under Hope & Change.

Make em all sanctuary cities with Chechen Muslims patrolled by drones.  What a FU'ed country thanks to the Alinsky-ites. 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:02 | Link to Comment Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

Basically. New Orleans has always been an extremely dangerous city.

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 01:22 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

It's always been extremely fun too.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:18 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Of course things like social injustice and drugs have nothing to do with it, right?

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:04 | Link to Comment booboo
booboo's picture

"Of course things like social injustice and drugs have nothing to do with it, right?"

Well if it does the State has been in complete control of righting those wrongs and spending trillions of stolen wealth in "fixing" it can we say they have failed, uh, yep. It is not even debatable.

War on poverty or Johnsons "Great Society" and the War on Drugs are "wars" not unlike the ones we are fighting overseas. Not definable, a mystery enemy or one that changes by the day. (one minute they are terrorist the other Freedom Fighters, "don't blame Mooslims" gettng the picure yet?

 It is good to have a complete monopoly. So, now that we can both agree that the State has had complete control over this, can we now travel down a weed infested less traveled path that say's that they are complete failures and it does not work? or maybe this path; that they planning to fail for a reason?  Government just sucking at what they do or being just plain evil does not bode well for you but keep voting sucker.

 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:25 | Link to Comment venturen
venturen's picture

HAHAHA Social justice liberal are the problem. Paying unionized government thugs to retire at 50 on $100k pensions to suck the money out so there is nothing left for the actual poor. I know a number of cops who at 45 are on their 3 job while collecting 2 pensions. Or fireman pulling a full salary and working 2 other jobs with all their free time. We even have crossing guards that get a full salary and medical and 8 hours a day...of course there is only about 1 hour of work the entire day...but they sit there collecting a full days pay. We work for the government not the other way round...well except bankers...they control the levers of power. It is going to get a LOT worse. In CT there are state workers drawing $300000 pensions!!!

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 01:28 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

CT is one of the most FU'ed states after CA, NY and IL.   The state has a pretty small population of about 4 million but has pension liabilities of about $86 billion or more.   The per resident liability is insane.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:06 | Link to Comment silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

and you freddy never have done or ever will do a fucking thing to make it better. worthless incessant compainer.

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 01:32 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Well actually I have done some things which I will not go into detail. I also pulled the plug on TV and Hollywood before 2008 because their endless brainwashing supports the criminal elites, banksters and politicians.

What have you done? You probably still watch TV like a (silver) serf(er). Pretty much there is nothing we can do at this point.

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 16:19 | Link to Comment silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

what you and i have or  havent done wouldnt mater so much if you diddnt bitch so much on the threads here. youre like george carlin after a stroke and hasnt taken a shit in a week.  

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 16:44 | Link to Comment spine001
spine001's picture

Who remembers like I do that Bill Clinton told us that globalization was not going to mean less jobs for America?

Who remembers like I do when a scandal broke up because Bill Clinton's campaign received money from China?

Who remembers like I do that Bush's father worked as a consultant to the Saudi family?

Who remembers like I do that Obama bowed subserviently after having been elected president of the USA to the Saudi King?

Sad to have a good memory...

Until next time,

Engineer

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:22 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

Don't forget that Popa Bush was also head of the CIA.

And who recalls President Raygun signing the legislation that opened the flood gates to the financialization of America, setting the stage for the Savings & Loan scandal?  His quote at the time was, "Boy, we are going to have some fun now".  But when the dust cleared on that scandal, at least over 1000 people were prosecuted and went to jail.  This time = 0.

Or that he he came to office as the super patriot, and promptly got entangled in illegal wars in South America, and illegal arms deals in the ME?  With who?  Oh yes, it was Iran he was busy dealing with, only a few years after they had occupied our embassy for a year and held the staff hostage.

Don't forget, too, that he began the deficit explosion of the Federal Budget.

And let's not forget about Nixon.  Remenber him?  The one who drove the nail through the heart of what was left of the Gold Standard.  The one who, along with Kissenger, opened the door to China.  Wasn't he also the one who so famously said "I am not a crook"?  Yes, I believe he was, after being caught running a criminal enterprise out of the White House in an effort to subvert the 1972 elections.  Folks actually went to jail then, too.  Can you believe it?  Well known and connected people going to jail!  What a novel idea.  I also recall that this crook, and his henchman Kissenger, had a "secret" plan to end the Vietnam War when he ran in 1968.  Ha Ha.  We were still there in 1972 when it was time to run again, but just barely, as we were hauling ass out as fast as we could withour tails tucked between our legs.

I could go on, but what's the point?  This old fart has been a keen observer of the political/economic scene for a long time, actually campaigning for Goldwater as a High School kid in 1964.  America's slide down the tubes was a long time coming.  However, when George Bush the Lesser was given the elction by the Supreme Court in 2000 was when the country jumped the shark.  The die had been cast by Bill Clinton's signing of the legislation doing away with Glass-Stegal, and also the bill that changed the way commodities were traded right as he was leaving office and handing the reins to Bush....but don't forget who drafted and shoved through that legislation in the Republican controlled Congress.  Man, that Congress was about a rawly corrupt as any we have ever had.  If you can't remember, google Tom Delay and the K-Street project.  This is when lobbyists began delivering legislation to Congressional offices ready to sigh into law.  Newt Gingrich, Phil Gramm, Dick Armey, Tom Delay....what slime.

Now, we have a Supreme court who says corporations are people and they can spend all they want to, in secret no less, to buy politicians. 

There was a lot of 'hope & change' when Obummer got elected, but all we did was trade a barrel of rotten apples for a basket of rotten eggs.

America has been sold out.  Lock, stock, and barrel.

Yes, Engineer, it is sad to have a good memory, especially when there is so much more to recall.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:35 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

You deserve WAY more up arrows than you got.

Thanks for the honesty, balanced view and the fact that BOTH sides of the political aisle have been destroying and indebting the country. Both have, but in different ways.

The common denominator was/is that BOTH loved to spend and grow the Empire and its bureaucracy. BOTH are equally guilty.

If you're a member of either party and did not seek to stop the corruption within your party, then you share (in a small way) in that responsibility -- given that it is a representative system.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:54 | Link to Comment SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

"Thanks for the honesty, balanced view" - Balanced?  I saw about 17 Rs, 4 R admins, and then Clinton & Obummer briefly mentioned above...doesn't sound too balanced.  The rotten eggs, rotten apples on both sides are so numerous we could recount them for hours on both sides of the aisle.  Time for a POLITICAL as well as ECONOMIC reset.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:04 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

Read the post I was responding to.  Was it balanced?

As my old Pappy used to say, "It's the hit dog that barks".

Both parties suck.  I do tend to lean more humanitarian, and I am more fearful of Republicans than Democrats, probably because the iron fist is more immediately threatening than the velvet glove.  Either way lies eventual ruin, which means the only hope is to allow the pendulum to swing.  The problem now is, the arc of the pendulum has been badly restrained, as both parties have morphed into 2 sides of the same coin.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:01 | Link to Comment SgtSchultz
SgtSchultz's picture

LBJ and Carter also come to mind.  They had plenty of policy gems...........guess that LBJ "war on poverty" didn't work out so well - I want my money back - oh and how about Carter's "synfuel" project to help the US get off imported fuel - I want my money back for that too.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:22 | Link to Comment Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Nixon taking us off the gold standard.  I want my real money back too.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:03 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

Thanks, Kirk.

"We have met the enemy, and he is us"  POGO

Walt Kelly, Earth Day poster, 1970

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:57 | Link to Comment three chord sloth
three chord sloth's picture

Carter signed the S&L legislation, not Reagan. DIDMCA was signed into law in March of 1980, and the FHLBB reduced the insurance requirements in November of the same year.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:20 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

And Reagan signed the Garn St. Germain Act in 1982.....de-regulate, Bitchez!

They were going to "grow out of their problems" 

Sound familiar?

"In 1979, the financial health of the thrift industry was again challenged by a return of high interest rates and inflation, sparked this time by a doubling of oil prices. Because the sudden nature of these changes threatened to cause hundreds of S&L failures, Congress finally acted on deregulating the thrift industry. It passed two laws, the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Actof 1980 and the Garn–St. Germain Depository Institutions Act of 1982. The deregulation not only allowed thrifts to offer a wider array of savings products (including adjustable rate mortgages, which fixed one important problem), but also significantly expanded their lending authority and reduced supervision, which invited fraud.[5] These changes were intended to allow S&Ls to "grow" out of their problems, and as such represented the first time that the government explicitly sought to increase S&L profits as opposed to promoting housing and homeownership. Other changes in thrift oversight included authorizing the use of more lenient accounting rules to report their financial condition, and the elimination of restrictions on the minimum numbers of S&L stockholders. Such policies, combined with an overall decline in regulatory oversight (known as forbearance), would later be cited as factors in the collapse of the thrift industry.[4]""

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:14 | Link to Comment booboo
booboo's picture

Red Team

Blue Team

Rah,rah rah

Rant like a partisan Blah, blah, blah

Still thinking like a serf are you? "My goverment masters use leather whips but they don't beat me more then twice a day, YOUR GUY WILL"

Fuck you people are hopeless.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:57 | Link to Comment HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Yeah, I kinda want to adopt you, honestly.

Thu, 04/25/2013 - 01:35 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Hasn't every Prezident since Poppy been conneccted to the agency?  Clinton going to Moscow during the Cold War and Rhodes scholar?  You know he is made and he and Newt are CFR.  Junior?  Well daddy ran the show.  The last one is a creation of them.  Indonesia, Pakistan, sealed records on EVERYTHING.  Oh yeah that is normal.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:47 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Yeah... that funny little guy (Ross Perot) from Texas warned us about that "big sucking sound of jobs leaving America"

And he was right
Clinton said it'd not have that effect
Obama said that healthcare premiums wouldn't go up because of ADA...

Fuck.. this is getting depressing. 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:50 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Its almost like a conspiracy against the People ain't it? ;-)

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 23:05 | Link to Comment Hulk
Hulk's picture

Ya'll remember the Charlie Rose interview, back in 94, with Sir James Goldsmith ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQrz8F0dBI

Its well worth a fresh view...

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 16:49 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Bagdad has oil money. Cleveland has nothing.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 16:53 | Link to Comment Cman5000
Cman5000's picture

( Iraq ) Bagdad is on the verge of another Civil War Cleveland may not look so bad.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 17:31 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Yep, The fighting in Iraq is spreading. Kurdish areas are openly prepared to fight. Sunni's are attacking the Shia government. Shia and Sunni are thinking of an attack on Kurdistan. Many American's and Iraqis died in the Bush war for nothing, things are going to spin out of control. And the US is in trouble, because we are allied with the Sunni Iraqis and the province of Kurdistan, who are near an open war. Everyone is ready to fight the Iraqi Shia because they hold the central government. I'm glad it wasn't me who left my soul in the Iraq war or lost more than that there. Give it a few years for the vets to consider what Bush set them into.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:12 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

But, but, but...we brought them democracy!

Well, kinda, sorta.  

Assassinations Grow as Iraqi Elections Near - The New York Times

 

"At least 15 candidates, all members of the minority Sunni community, have been assassinated — some apparently by political opponents, others by radical Sunni militants. Many others have been wounded or kidnapped or have received menacing text messages or phone calls demanding that they withdraw."

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:23 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

If that happened in the US, at least we wouldn't see the like of Feinstein, Graham and Pelosi running around making stupid laws.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 11:41 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

Yeah, and maybe we could have gotten rid of the Bush Cheney team right after they stole the election and before they lied us into a stupid war that ruined America and turned us into a police state.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:15 | Link to Comment potlatch
potlatch's picture

Cleveland has massive access to fresh water.  Soon, my pretties, soon. 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 17:24 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

our roads look like quilts... with holes in them.
and the asfalt is turning into gravel and makes you think you're driving on a country road sometimes....

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 17:42 | Link to Comment Simplifiedfrisbee
Simplifiedfrisbee's picture

The complacency has now set in. Zero hedge has covered so precisely the market conditions that it no longer contents the readers. My advice: make love to your wife, spend time with your children, help out at the local rest home, or relax by your dog taking in the beautiful day. Put down the guns; they can be cleaned another day. Put down the phone, they can wait. Pick up your spirit and stop being so easily divided.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:47 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

"stop being so easily divided."

I don't have all the up votes I would like to have for your post.

But then again, that could divide us into those who see us as easily divided, and those who don't... hmmmm....

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:15 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Pull the plug on f*****g TV and Hoolywood or be a good little sheep.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 18:08 | Link to Comment de3de8
de3de8's picture

Asphalt

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:37 | Link to Comment krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Bush's Phalt...?

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:14 | Link to Comment NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture

English is not his first language, give him a break.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:12 | Link to Comment potlatch
potlatch's picture

I do 60 cross town using Cedar.  YOLO.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:42 | Link to Comment SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Dear Yankee Immigrants, 

Keep your bullshit fucking northern politics to yourself.   You fucked up your state and you had to move here because it's a shithole there.  Don't fuck our state up or else. 

Signed, 

5th generation Texan 

PS: If you lecture us on how to BBQ we will shoot your ass.

 

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:14 | Link to Comment potlatch
potlatch's picture

Texas: the big little petro state that could.  You put that oil in the ground dammit, you've earned yer right think you have anything else other than football players to export.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 23:17 | Link to Comment white_guy
white_guy's picture

ever heard of the marcellus shale? at least in TX we don't squander the resource so that we can appease the enviro-terrorists

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 21:14 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

This is true of the entire South. Northerners turn their own state into a toilet then immediately seek out another place to ruin- they are the human equivalent of plague carrying rats.

Those unfortunately legal immigrants are as bad as the illegals in terms of sheer destructiveness. If you are in the North stay there- nobody wants you around or to have to listen to your incessant, insipid chatter about how they do it where you come from.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 19:58 | Link to Comment Rentenmark
Rentenmark's picture

Try driving around Chicago. Roads in the off areas have pot holes that will swallow your car, with dilapidated and boarded up buildings surrounding you.  People always focus on the downtown, but its the outlying portions that are truly devastated.

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 22:19 | Link to Comment Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

That's part of the repair plan. Let the hole get big enough to get filled by a car, then pave over the car. Helps the auto industry by stimulating demand. Detroit has been doing this for years.....

Wed, 04/24/2013 - 20:22 | Link to Comment Herodotus
Herodotus's picture

There is a one word answer to all of these problems.....Niggers.

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