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"If" - Reflections On The Precious Metals

Tyler Durden's picture


Last week's collapse in precious metals prices reminded Santiago Capital's Brent Johnson of Rudyard Kipling's famous poem 'If' - "If you can keep your head when all those about you are losing theirs." This brief but complete summary of why one should hold gold, the theories about the drop, his view of the manipulation - "would it really surprise anyone?", and the ongoing and increasing realization among the mainstream that a rising gold price is the canary in the coalmine of economic distress and currency debasement is well worth the price of admission. His message is clear, buy physical gold - rather than futures - don't use margin and store it somewhere safe. The last three minutes of "Ifs" are a succinct list of the questions everyone should ask themselves about the status quo.



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Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:41 | 3504150 howenlink
howenlink's picture

If only I had the cash.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:44 | 3504158 Aeternus
Aeternus's picture

I hear the banks are lending, go take out $100,000 or so and get you some phyzz.


Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:48 | 3504173 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Don't forget to lose it all in a tragic boating accident before you default on the loan.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:52 | 3504188 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

JPM Vaults EMPTY As An Old BeerCan ...

$50K GOLD.

It's Coming...


Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:58 | 3504191 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Yes friends, the big guns! Trust anything he says. 

Or catch some of his wealth management advice at bakerave (conveniently at the same address):


Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:21 | 3504257 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Last week's gold plunge looks like a bottom...

So says Sprott:

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 02:09 | 3505066 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

He should know.  He sold about $45,000,000 of his own silver a few days before the crash.

Just lucky, huh?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 06:25 | 3505203 new game
new game's picture

trust me, he is the enemy(too)...

just another facist

long hollowed be thy faceless name

on earth and gone to hell

let their be justice

for mankind and the ruling cabel...

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 22:52 | 3504867 Jungle Jim
Jungle Jim's picture

But, when? We don't all have years or decades to wait. We're going down now. I've already been forced to sell all my 90 percent silver on or about April 19. I have some Silver eagles left, and a mixed bag of (largely foreign) gold too. But how long will it last me? And how far can it take me? I can't wait until the Twelfth of Never.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 22:57 | 3504874 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

My figures call for US$134K Gold, calculated in today's purchasing power of currencies.

Then, when only 1oz per of Gold is mined for each person on earth, every 50 years....US$ reality the market won't exist.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 02:17 | 3505071 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

I think what you are saying is that

when the gold mothership takes off ... many will be left behind.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 03:54 | 3505117 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Affirm, BigDuke6.

Just imagine how negative about Gold these people will be once all the Gold has been spoken for, and, they hear the Spaceship start to hum.

A lot like this, I suspect:

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 10:49 | 3505401 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

$50,000.00 gold? My pee pee feels funny...

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 00:46 | 3504995 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

just never tell them what you bought...take your time, deplete your 100k loan slowly and only buy your metals with cash from a dealer that doesn't require ID.  

If your mother's in good health, and if you trust her, put it in her safe deposit box so when you default they don't look at the bank for your stash.  You don't even have to tell her what it is if it's gold since 50 ounces can fit in a very small box.   You can even put it in a small jewelry box.   Of course, just add this to the other 200 ounces you have that Uncle Sam doesn't know about.   Or you can go the bury route if you're really really comfortable with that.

After you default, you will need to lay low for a while.   Since you're waiting for gold to hit $5k you're not liquidating any time soon anyway.  Currently you can get gold across the Mexico and Canadian borders pretty easy.  But if JPMorgan pulls the string they may alter their vehicle x-ray technology to look for PM's like they look for kilo's of grass.   We may have to get creative in that case.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 10:00 | 3505340 GoldForCash
GoldForCash's picture

All loans at this time is tied to the government . You will not be able to default. Put up your house, car etc...the government will take it. Need I say what they will come after On a personal loan!

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 11:14 | 3505082 Lordflin
Lordflin's picture

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you clearly do not understand the situation...

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:00 | 3504163 freewolf7
freewolf7's picture

Will the bank hold it for me?
Is that expensive?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:15 | 3504239 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

My gun safe is several troy pounds heavier this week. 

"If you can't stand in front of it and defend it with an AR-15, you don't own it" Ann Barnhardt 2011

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 20:35 | 3504479 Boston
Boston's picture

Same here. Never bought more in a two day stretch than I did on 4/12 and 4/15. 

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 06:29 | 3505207 new game
new game's picture

long lead

manipulation on many fronts...

BT any availible FD



to be control by "explosive" controls...

working on bill to control "dry powder"


gun contols has many faces.

buck/rd coming to a web site near you...


Sat, 04/27/2013 - 10:02 | 3505343 GoldForCash
GoldForCash's picture

Bolt it down. In our area they are wrapping chains around the safes and pulling them out with trucks.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:45 | 3504164 colin
colin's picture

in need some more benny buck to turn paper into gold

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:47 | 3504168 machineh
machineh's picture

Buy physical gold and lose your ass.

The precious metals charlatans have come out of the woodwork.

It's like 1981 all over again.

Those who don't know the sorry history of gold hucksters are doomed to repeat it.



Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:47 | 3504178 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

What was the lifespan of the longest lived fiat currency?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:53 | 3504185 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Anti-gold a-holes are starting to get under my skin.  What other investments are there?  Stocks?  Real Estate? Commodities?

We can't all be like Hillary Clinton and invest $5K into pork bellies and turn it to $500K overnight.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:32 | 3504646 espirit
espirit's picture

I'm still waiting to redeem my $USD SILVER CERTIFICATE FRN'S for the shiny metal.

Oh wait, did someone say my timing was a bit off? 

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 03:40 | 3505114 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

The rule is that if the shoeshine boy or the elevator operator starts talking about gold intstead of the ponys, start selling

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 06:39 | 3505215 new game
new game's picture

then what? convert to? frns, lead(maybe), rice? farmland(taxes)? log cabin? water?

advice ignored.

gold is the last stop; nowhere els(IMFO)to go.


then, watch shit show(desparation of shit/show masters-currently ongoing, full screne 3D) and enjoy your simple choice.

end of story...

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 09:03 | 3505281 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Astounding, that people who frequent this site regularly STILL NOT grasp the situation to the fullest extent.

Gold is the ultimate asset untill the next financial system is up and running.

End of story indeed.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 10:56 | 3505412 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Shoe shine boy? Elevator operator? Are you posting from 1922 through some sort of wormhole?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:57 | 3504197 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

That would be the British Pound Sterling.  Still going.  

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:19 | 3504226 akak
akak's picture

Not really --- it's only been in existence, as a purely fiat currency, for almost exactly the same time (i.e., since the early 1930s) as a number of others, such as the US and Canadian dollars or the Japanese Yen.

(In saying that, I am of course overlooking the farce of a gold standard that was the Bretton Woods System, which was stillborn and a failure from the start, as the US Treasury was constantly hemorraging gold and never managed to maintain even the nominal 25% gold backing for the US dollar that was mandated under that system.)

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:12 | 3504229 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Wrongo, bub.  The pound has been fiat for exactly the same amount of time as the dollar.  Prior to 1971, it was linked to the dollar, which was linked to gold.

The longest lived fiat currency in human history was the Chao (, used in China during the Mongol Yuan Dynasty.  It lasted for ~60 years, and had three bouts of hyperinflation.  Ended with a civil war and the Mongols never recovered.

The US dollar has been full fiat for 42 years now.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:58 | 3506136 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

what about the Swiss franc?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:52 | 3506313 akak
akak's picture

In practice, essentially fiat since 1936, although the Swiss did maintain a very significant (~40-50%) if only quasi-official gold backing for the Swiss franc until 2000.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 01:51 | 3505043 Me_Myself_and_I
Me_Myself_and_I's picture

But its no longer Sterling, a pound or any fraction thereof.

Just an e-paper balloon, like all fiat currencies.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:51 | 3504186 Frank N. Beans
Frank N. Beans's picture

good synopsis there at the end

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:52 | 3504189 LuchadorChumba
LuchadorChumba's picture

If any of this is 'news' to you, then salir de mi cuadrilatero...get the hell out of my ring. I expect more from me fighters at fight club! 

Despierta! You may have gained lots of stolen booty purchasing power from my printing activities (yeah ...I know you think you earned it), but if you want to continue to wear those tight leotards, you better knock over a liquor store and comprar oro fisico. Vender su cuerpo wifes. Vender su cuerpo. Vender tu soul.

Viva El Luchador!

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:56 | 3504196 PUD
PUD's picture

Why not a balanced piece listing the many reasons why one should not own gold?

I could make a list a lot longer against than anyone could make for if you like

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:06 | 3504201 akak
akak's picture

I want a pro-child slavery piece myself. 

Can't forget about the many benefits of releasing mercury into the environment either, or the innumerable and manifest evils of immoral "hoarding".

(Dammit, I just stepped into another PUDdle of shit!  Why do I keep doing that?)

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:20 | 3504246 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

PUD licker - go ahead give your list - you know you are going to do it anyways.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 20:04 | 3504383 gonetogalt
gonetogalt's picture

Every gold thread gets jacked by this guy...Don't feed the troll!

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 22:27 | 3504794 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Dimon has to do something with his free time, i.e. fuck with the peasants. . . 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:59 | 3504204 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Please. I'd like to see it if you don't mind. Thanks.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:18 | 3504241 PUD
PUD's picture

A million people in slavery or near slavery digging for it.

incredible damage to the environment

Child labor with some as young as 4

Violence when indigenous people protest the destruction of their culture

Mass delusion amongst goldtards who think gold cures all ills and will save them when society collapses

Destruction of irreplaceable fisheries and coral reefs because of tailings and toxic chemicals

Destruction of land that could benefit people with other sustainable uses

The cultivation of the gambling mentality particularly americans

The feeding of the wall st criminal cartels by endorsing speculative trading in things they have no business with

I have more

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:20 | 3504247 akak
akak's picture

Come, share my delicious baby seal steak, and you'll feel much better.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:23 | 3504255 PUD
PUD's picture

I truly hope you remember these exchanges when circumstances surround you and your little suburban cocoon becomes an unlivable place.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:28 | 3504261 akak
akak's picture

It's really quite delicious --- baby seal tastes almost like chicken!

Of course, the brains are the best part, but they tend to end up scattered all over the ice, and are very difficult to retrieve.  My African slave children do manage to gather most of them up, though.  It's quite impressive how motivating a good whipping can be.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 09:20 | 3504858 markettime
markettime's picture

Gold and guns, without either we wouldn't have anything left. 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:20 | 3504252 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Who cares about child labor?

Who cares about indigenous people's culture (we call them savages where I come from).

There are not sustainable uses for land that are more efficient.

Gambling?  You got to be kidding.

Let's all speculate in how much an A-hole PUD is - please vote me up!

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:26 | 3504263 PUD
PUD's picture

Only a true savage could write what you just did. I suspect you are emboldened by the other tough guys here and that inside you struggle with your conflict over doing what these people have conned you into believing and what you truly know is the right thing to do.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:43 | 3504308 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

I'll go home and savagely fuck my mulatto wife and think about what you just wrote.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:55 | 3504351 akak
akak's picture

Hopefully while she's wearing a great deal of gold jewelry.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 20:01 | 3504372 Spacemoose
Spacemoose's picture

c.s. lewis had this to say about pud:

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences."

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:26 | 3504260 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Now, how about a list detailing the evils facilitated by fiat/fractional reserve banking?



Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:25 | 3504268 PUD
PUD's picture

i would be happy to as I am an equal critic of this evil system of debt money. However that is not the title of the article and i prefer to remain on topic.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:41 | 3504309 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Fact is, eliminating gold would do nothing to alleviate the suffering you're railing about.  If it wasn't gold mining, it would be copper mining, coal mining, fracking, over fishing, pollution, acidification, deforestation, overpopulation, colonialism, corporatism, etc. etc.

In case you hadn't noticed, we are very likely WAY past the tipping-point.  The end-game of Tragedy of the Commons has likely already been written, we're just now pulling-up our ringside seats for the show (popcorn in hand).

IMHO, the human race has been rushing into a full-speed, head-on collision with over-shoot for a long time now - and waiting for a collective solution isn't going to help you, or us.  I suggest you take what time we've got to get your own house in order.  As someone who has been personally working on this project double-time for years now - I can tell you it is no small feat.

Stacking gold is just like stacking cord-wood for winter.  I hope you remember these exchanges as well when this ship finally starts to roll. . .

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:43 | 3504318 PUD
PUD's picture

Sadly i agree with your end game thesis. However your gold will serve you no useful purpose when that day arrives. The cord wood however makes some sense as you'll be able to survive a little bit longer than some others...unless they discover it and kill you for it.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:53 | 3504336 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Sadly i agree with your end game thesis. However your gold will serve you no useful purpose when that day arrives.

What silly people like you fail to realize is that a widely traded gold-backed currency would actually be one of the best ways to protect AGAINST envriomental damage and rampant speculation. 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:54 | 3504349 PUD
PUD's picture

No it would not for a multitude of reasons. i'll write on this another time but you are incorrect. good night

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:56 | 3504356 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

No it would not for a multitude of reasons. 

All this secret knowledge you have! If only us Earthlings could be enlightened...

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 20:34 | 3504477 YC2
YC2's picture

I wonder if he knows what we should do in his world view were no eggs may be cracked to make omeletes, or if he just knows why everything is morally repugnant and everyone is wrong. Remember, unworkable idealist fantasies get zero points!

I remember when I was 17...

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 01:34 | 3505025 zhandax
zhandax's picture

"Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It is a waste of time and it annoys the pig."

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:15 | 3504607 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

Hey, PUD, fuck off, would you?

We've heard your spiel, yeah, gold is bad. Go away. Stay away.

Go tend to your chickens or do something useful. You are accomplishing absolutely nothing by posting here, except maybe pissing me and other people concerned about preserving their wealth off.

So, chill, OK?

BTW: You sound like a total pussy.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:30 | 3504274 PUD
PUD's picture

I will add that gold is not a viable substitute for fiat debt money in the 21st century. There are better ways that do not entail destruction of the planet

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 22:08 | 3504754 CURWAR2012
CURWAR2012's picture

I see the picture u chose for the avatar shows you on the bottom...

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:28 | 3504277 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

A million people in slavery or near slavery digging for it.

This is true of any commodity. Some people get paid very well on mine sites, some get paid terribly. 

incredible damage to the environment

Again true of any commodity, but to a lesser extent gold mining. 

Violence when indigenous people protest the destruction of their culture

See above. 

Mass delusion amongst goldtards who think gold cures all ills and will save them when society collapses

Obv not true. 

Destruction of irreplaceable fisheries and coral reefs because of tailings and toxic chemicals

Cite specific gold-exclusive mine sites where this is the case. 

Destruction of land that could benefit people with other sustainable uses

Cite specific gold-exclusive mine sites where this is the case. 

The cultivation of the gambling mentality particularly americans

Gambling?? Maybe in futures, I don't think your average stacker is in it for the gambling. 

Zzzz.. Your reasons are all idiotic. Give one good reason. 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:34 | 3504284 PUD
PUD's picture

you are poorly informed. i suggest you do some research. gold mining is the worst of them all for a variety of reasons. mining iron serves a useful purpose. mining gold does not as there is ample amounts already mined to satisfy all practical needs. you sir should make use of the google where you will find that i have done my homework

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:38 | 3504292 akak
akak's picture

Come on, just take a bite --- it will change your whole perspective on the value of gold.

Give in to the dark side.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:42 | 3504316 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

How about it makes the BITCHEZ happy?  Does that not count for anything?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:57 | 3504358 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Those poor children digging those mines, they'd be better off if they just stayed home with their moms and starved to death, I guess.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 20:00 | 3504368 akak
akak's picture

That would of course be the only 'moral' alternative.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:37 | 3504294 Tulpa
Tulpa's picture

Troll says "Yum!"

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:38 | 3504296 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

you are poorly informed.

No I'm not. 

i suggest you do some research. gold mining is the worst of them all for a variety of reasons.

How about giving some of them then?

mining iron serves a useful purpose.

OK, so it's alright to destroy the environment as long as it serves a 'useful' purpose. And I take it you will let us all know when something is 'useful' and when it isn't? Who needs markets when we have people like you who can simply dictate our needs to us. 

mining gold does not as there is ample amounts already mined to satisfy all practical needs.

Define 'pratical'?

you sir should make use of the google where you will find that i have done my homework

Oh I see you did a google search and now you know everything. Well, please enlighten us. Enquiring minds would like to know what you've learned on the Google. 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:43 | 3504310 PUD
PUD's picture

I'm not re-writing a term paper just for you. If you want, you can reference any article on zero hedge mentioning gold over the last weeks and you will find all of my critiques as well as sources and links.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:43 | 3504317 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Just give me your best single reason (with citations). 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:40 | 3504293 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture


Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:52 | 3504332 oddjob
oddjob's picture

I'll take your word for it.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:42 | 3504302 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

I only buy Canadian gold, mined by union miners, refined by union refiners, in a government inspected refinery meeting all environmental regulations,  minted by the Canadian government mint, which I buy from a Canadian chartered bank.

I'm not a gambler or speculator. My gold and silver is the hard earned savings of a lifetime of honest manual labour.  I have owned my gold and silver for many years and have no intention of selling it.

Your move.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:46 | 3504320 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

I only buy Canadian gold because it is pure and has a picture of that Elizabeth bitch on the front.  And I do love my BITCHEZ!

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:48 | 3504324 PUD
PUD's picture

The same Canada that is mining tar sands the size of England? That environmentally progressive country?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:50 | 3504334 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Yes, that's the one. We also have lakes a good deal larger than England. Lots of things bigger and better than anything England ever dreamed of. But then, who hasn't?

What have the size of our God given resources to do with it?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:55 | 3504342 PUD
PUD's picture

Oh, so you are as illinformed about the destructive tar sands as you are about gold I see. good day sir

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:58 | 3504352 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Good day you toffee nosed pillock.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 20:04 | 3504377 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The tar sands that are turned into energy to run the power hogging bitcoin franchise?

How very immoral of you ;-)

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:54 | 3504338 DriveByLurker
DriveByLurker's picture

Hey, if we really cared about the environment, we wouldn't keep leaving it outside overnight.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:58 | 3504364 akak
akak's picture

"You can't just let nature run wild!"*



*True quote, by Wally Hickel, former governor of Alaska:

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:53 | 3504343 akak
akak's picture

Let he who is without environmental sin cast the first golden stone ... at PUS.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:39 | 3504666 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

By the way what happened to I prefer to remain on topic?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 20:05 | 3504379 Blano
Blano's picture

Some of those things could probably be said about food.  Should we stop eating too??

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 20:39 | 3504463 xtop23
xtop23's picture


Seriously. What is the point of continuing your useless drivel, hrmm?

Are you trying to save the sinner's souls or something?

You're frequenting a website that is almost exclusively populated with financially savvy, or at least moderately so, folks that know or at least suspect, where and how the levers of our world's finances are being pulled.

It's tantamount to preaching about abstinence in the midst of a gd orgy.

There are literally millions of other crusades that you could invest your time in that would have much greater impact on the issues that trouble you, should you choose to do so.

I can't help but think that either;

A) you're a fool

B) you're horribly misguided

C) you're a troll


D) you have a perverted desire to be the object of ridicule.

Smoking, fatty foods, cars, pools, legal drugs, illegal drugs, motorcycles, sex, animals, toxic waste, war, starvation,..... really man the list goes on ad infinitum.

It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't clutter up every gd metals thread with 200 fucking comments about the evils of wealth preservation in PM's.

Give it a rest why don't you.





Sat, 04/27/2013 - 06:59 | 3505225 new game
new game's picture

this same mindset funded ethenol, fiscar, soylent solar and spains solar arrays.

how is that working?

productive capitol gone astray?

insider guv sponsored crime?

wish/think realize(we are all fucked in the end)no mater what you or i say.

just a knat on the bow of the titanic...

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:04 | 3504565 Room 101
Room 101's picture

That's a short and lousy list, pudtz.  Here.  I'll spot you a few:

- Gold has few industrial or practical uses except as jewelry or a few scientific uses. What gold does do, other metals do cheaper.

-It's price is relatively expensive in FRNs as compared to other PM's.

-It's heavy.

-It's easily stolen and fenced.

-It has to be purchased at a premium to it's market price.

-You can't get change for a krugerrand at 7-11.

-Governments love to seize it.

etc, etc.

The problem is bonds, stocks, real estate, derivatives, fiat, most commodities, and most collectibles are worse places to store wealth. So while you're bitching about how eeeeevill gold is, come up with something better and we'll be all ears.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 04:14 | 3505134 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

But Au is tasty!

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:59 | 3504726 CURWAR2012
CURWAR2012's picture

your describing AAPL

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 09:56 | 3507325 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

-1 for your illiteracy in using "your" in place of "you are" or the contraction "you're".


Fri, 04/26/2013 - 22:15 | 3504763 CuriousPasserby
CuriousPasserby's picture

Buying older gold coins would seem to avoid all your objections about currentmining issues. And buying physical has nothing to do with Wall Street's paper casino. Any other objections?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 23:00 | 3504888 dunce
dunce's picture

Thank you, you may now go use your rectum as a sex organ.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 07:39 | 3505243 Overflow-admin
Overflow-admin's picture

Wow, you're blaming the entire human activity, not gold!


Sat, 04/27/2013 - 11:55 | 3505515 joego1
joego1's picture

PUD your computer has gold in it, you own gold. You are handling it in your hands right now- the shame PUD, the SHAME!

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:10 | 3504212 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well then make it, on a monetary value basis, instead of the vacuous enviromental one you've been trying to make.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:06 | 3504217 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

I am all ears here, in the mean time I just put in another order.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:16 | 3504237 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I'm with PUD.  All brown people should starve to death from not being allowed to work.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 04:16 | 3505137 StychoKiller
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 07:37 | 3505241 imaginalis
imaginalis's picture

Make it then.


Or are you just going to whip your pud?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 11:52 | 3505508 joego1
joego1's picture

If you type on a computer or drive a modern car or live in a house you own gold silver and most likely platnum, copper aluminum and a bunch of other natural elements that are mined in a dirty way. In addition if you use any kind of energy the materials for that are also mined. And finally, until PUD is listed on the periodic table of elements, well your just a fucking PUD-o-crit.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:59 | 3504202 nmewn
nmewn's picture

An excellent presentation.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:03 | 3504206 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

MY chickens lay golden eggs. Then I found out JPMorgan was coloring them. They are just eggs...

JPMorgan claims to have gold. They have eggs, I think. 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:04 | 3504210 akak
akak's picture

Yes, rotten eggs.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 11:59 | 3505517 joego1
joego1's picture

Yes JPMorgan is using their spring "Pig's Lipstick" color collection.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:29 | 3504272 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

If you can keep your head when all about you, are losing theirs, you haven't heard the news.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:37 | 3504297 blindman
blindman's picture

"If" by Joni Mitchell
(lyrixs ....

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 20:10 | 3504395 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

I never knew Joni Mitchell was a Kipling fan.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 20:14 | 3504420 blindman
blindman's picture

apparently, oh yea !

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:47 | 3504329 blindman
blindman's picture

stories of the beginning and stories of the end,

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 20:36 | 3504474 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

If you didn't sell your gold, perhaps you'd like to rent a Classic Car to tool around the French Riviera:




Fri, 04/26/2013 - 22:08 | 3504749 espirit
espirit's picture

Classic to me means no A/C, no intermittant wipers, no turn signals, no cruise control, no power steering...

No thank you (might as well drive a tractor). 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 20:47 | 3504508 Grin Bagel
Grin Bagel's picture

At first, I reacted with derisive thinking about PUD's comments -such as, that my first ex-wife always referred to short, stubby dicks as"Puds". But I would like to congratulate Pud on his/her sick-to-it-tivness because almost every point has at least enough ligitimacy to warrant re-evaluating the placing of "economics" as any real kind of primary goal in our oh-so-short passage through the denseness of the physical (pun intended).

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 22:18 | 3504772 CuriousPasserby
CuriousPasserby's picture

Not to get too personal, but how often did your first ex-wife refer to short, stubby dicks, and why?

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 09:59 | 3507333 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

EXCELLENT question but the answer to which we will never see ...


Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:20 | 3504620 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

Fuck this PUD SHIT. I'm tired of seeing every ounce of useful energy wasted by this thread hijacker.

Come on, ZH, get rid of this troll. And to everyone else, stop responding to him. (I know, I am guilty of doing just that, but I won't any more.)

This guy serves no useful purpose.

Fuckin' A, I wanted to talk about the sweet silver deal I found on eBay, which included not only shiney, but some fiat as well. I am simply thrilled.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:36 | 3504654 akak
akak's picture

I encourage those who are irritated by and fed up with the repeated and relentless trolling of certain malicious and willfully disruptive posters here to express that irritation to the moderator of ZeroHedge:

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:45 | 3504677 espirit
espirit's picture

I'm for if it's a troll cleanup on aisle 1.

Wonder if it's illegal or sumpthin' to post a trolls ip address?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:43 | 3504686 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

I think PUD should stick around. Only if you understand what he is saying and why he is saying it, and understand that he represents the thinking of England's intellectuals since the thirties, can you understand how England went from being one of the greatest countries the world has ever known, to what it is now.

I am not joking or jesting. If you understand Pud's line of thinking and learn to recognize it you may be horrified to see it all around you, only not in such perfect development.

If you can see through it and refute it, all the better.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:50 | 3504702 espirit
espirit's picture

PUDster is a treehugging, Sierra Club Life Member, Peta trainee, and probably alot cooler online.

Such serious people are usually on a LE watchlist somewhere. 

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 05:12 | 3505167 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Don't go. I want you to keep writing. I look forward to the responses contributors make to your drivel.


Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:46 | 3504697 nmewn
nmewn's picture

As much as I despise what he's attempting to do...which is, draw a moral equivalence between people and the planet (the planet having no ability to think or reciprocate or a plan for good or evil) I can't go along.

He has a right to be heard/entertained and we have a right to laugh at him.

Uncensored ;-)

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:53 | 3504715 espirit
espirit's picture

But, but, but... It's the same copy & post every time!

Anything with the word "Gold" in it.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 22:12 | 3504758 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I know, from a HuffPo piece, circulated over at DemocracyCows (or

The great thing Ty has done here is letting any point of view get "air time"...we've all takin our lumps expressing our opinion, this is no different and its all good my brother ;-)

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 02:28 | 3505076 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

Well said

And Akak should know better than to follow duds around like some ZH vigilante.

Its wasting time and energy - put the wit to better use buddy

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 11:03 | 3505431 Bohm Squad
Bohm Squad's picture

+Billion.  Pud's an idiot...but it's the responsibility of the reader to decide for themselves validity of arguments posted here.  Censoring anyone here would make this site worthless.

I'd rather hear both sides and make up my own mind.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 22:55 | 3504868 Croesus
Croesus's picture

<---Has bigger things to worry about, than what PUD thinks. 



Yes PUD, I'm a bad person for owning Gold. I'm the f*c*ing reincarnation of Satan himself. I've learned to "live with the guilt", so piss off.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:57 | 3504707 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

First of all he doesn't care about third world miners, or minors. The environment or anything else. That's all bullshit, meant to make you feel guilty and easier to control.

It's part of the campaign by so called intellectuals to gain power without responsibility. To control better men even though they have no knowledge, skill,character,  courage, strength, or anything else of value in the world.

Ayn Rand knew them from Russia. They always come out of the woodwork when the government takes control. People who think they should control everything while contributing nothing.

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 10:17 | 3507371 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

+1 prescient observation

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 22:03 | 3504736 espirit
espirit's picture

Gainesville coins sent me an e-flyer with ASE's at $4.55 over spot.  Some rough calcs showed it to be $4.70 for the bankwired funds.

JM is now higher than that, so it's like they switched prices...

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 22:24 | 3504790 CuriousPasserby
CuriousPasserby's picture

Has anyone here used Liberty? They often have the lowest prices on but how fast do they ship?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 09:51 | 3505331 Room 101
Room 101's picture

I don't purchase PM's of course.  They're vile, barbaric relics that have no place whatsoever in a civilized society. 

But I have an unenlightened friend has used them.  He says they're good people.  He also says that they're a bit slow to ship because all funds have to clear before doing so.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 11:48 | 3505494 joego1
joego1's picture

Yes I use them and recommend them highly but make sure you send them the exact amount and expect to wait for your fiat check to land in their account. 

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 01:28 | 3505021 SilverIsMoney
SilverIsMoney's picture

Long time lurker... only posted a few times but I have to finally do my best to shut you up PUD because I mainly lurk here on my iphone for the comments and you're doing nothing but pissing me and the rest of us off. You're fucking wrong dude and it's truly depressing how convinced you are in your nonsensical belief.


1) The human population has doubled since the US left the Gold Standard in 1971 

The monetary system we are currently using is causing consumption to be totally out of whack with the resources on the planet. A gold backed system never would have allowed the population bubble to get to where it's gotten. The FIAT Reserve Dollar is why we've seen such exponential growth in the planet's population. The majority of the planet lives on a dollar a day. Most of these people should have never been born and in a gold backed system probably wouldn't have been. This monetary system gives rise to unsustainable levels of population which has absolutely given rise to unsustainable consumption of the world's natural resources.


This is the single biggest contributing factor to the environmental decay of the planet and you have to be a fucking retard not to understand it. Endless paper money = More Humans = More consumption. We continue to try and sustain the earth at a level of consumption that cannot last. This has only been made possible because it's been so easy for so many decades to turn a worthless piece of paper into material goods.

This is what a lot of people here don't recognize, or don't care about, so often people call it a conspiracy against the people when in fact I believe it's simply politicians refusing to allow all of it to crash because BILLIONS (mostly in the 3rd world) will have to die in order for a real reset back to equilibrium to happen and no one wants to be responsible for it so they insanely do exactly what got us into this mess to begin with. The longer we go without metals being used as money the more people are going to die in the long run and the worse the enviromental impact will be.


2) Considering this... 

It's the reason we've trashed through so much of the earth so quickly. Humans simply cannot understand exponential growth when it's staring them in the face. Consider all of the environmental impacts in the world these past decades... ALL OF THEM have been made worse by the fact that an unlimited money supply causes us to be able to consume at an unnatural rate.

This is important because being the dumbass that you are you piss and whine and moan all fucking day about the environmental impact of 1 useless commodity without considering the environmental impact of the FIAT DOLLAR SYSTEM and how it effects the consumption of ALL resources. If there was a set amount of dollars based around metals, and we couldn't steal from the future to pay for the present, then these crazy levels of total consumption, AND THUS ENVIROMENTAL IMPACT, would be DRASTICALLY reduced. Even if we just ended fractional reserve banking the environmental impact would be insanely positive.\


3) Yet... 

Yet here you are... in a forum filled with people who are heavily influenced by Austrian Economics... arguing against the foundations of a sound money system (that would reign in the environmental impacts of unsustainable consumption) by arguing about JUST the impact of gold without seeing the bigger picture.

The absolute short-sightedness in your argument is so breathtaking I was convinced you were only doing this as a joke, perhaps to ruffle some feathers for fun, but your incessant stupidity on this issue has become so unnerving that it's caused even a lurker like me to post. Are you really so blind? Is your hatred of gold so great that you can't see that the environment, you're supposedly so concerned about, is being ravaged by our paper dollar system more than ANYTHING else?

Finally, your arguments, while admirable for their fight, are so flawed based around this simple concept I, and others, have presented that NO ONE here (here at a forum based around free-market economics) will EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER be convinced by your incoherent drivel towards the issue. You will convince no one and you are wasting not only your time but also everyone else’s. We literally have 75 years on this planet (if we're lucky), in a universe that is 14billion years old, and you’re seriously choosing to spend your flash in a pan existence arguing with people you will never convince otherwise. I mean Jesus dude... the stupidity truly is breathtaking on so many levels. 

Please stop spamming us with your flawed arguments and go do something with your short life that might actually make a difference in the environment or whatever it is you aim to do. You’re wasting your time and taking up space.


 (All ZHers please feel free to spam this reponse to PUD everywhere from here on out) 

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 02:39 | 3505087 akak
akak's picture

Outstanding post, SIM, and from a unique and valuable perspective.


Sat, 04/27/2013 - 07:45 | 3505246 Overflow-admin
Overflow-admin's picture

I'll gladly do!

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 10:44 | 3505387 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

"We literally have 75 years on this planet (if we're lucky),"


ENORME MERDE DE taureau (BS) . Who the f are U nostrad"anus"II .God?

You can hate fiat but he can,T hate gold.

He can troll . I can troll

after the Boston thingy can we try and keep a few civil rights?.


I lived in America , I loved America ...

Now i cry for America/.

I,m fucked>!!


Sun, 04/28/2013 - 00:14 | 3506928 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

Psst... he was talking lifespan, not the end of the world.


Frankly, i think mr sim is incorrect on all 3 points, but it sounds good.


1. Surplus production has temporarily resulted in an explosion in our population, but it will by nature or choice balance out once we recognize the shift... most kids survive so we no longer need to have numerous to ensure some live. Currency is expanded to meet population needs. No standard will limit this phenomenon.


2. There is no doubt we are being voracious, but as with children, the phenomenon has to do with inexperience / lack of awareness or recognition of the newer condition... we can now make more cheaply, but people consume as if the availability is limited... eventually, people will adjust and consumption will balance or we will innovate better ways to recycle... so there is less negative impact on the environment.


3. We all live together and must openly debate / discuss / argue points of view to reach the most accurate. It isn't a waste of time, it's essential. Polite conversation or myopic discussions or eliminating dissent is the fast track to idiocy... progress requires the debate to shed light on better points of view / thoughts.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 03:35 | 3505113 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

While we are waxing philosophical I would like to point out that if our paper currencies were sound, no one would care about gold.

There was a time when money was sound,  inflation and deflation did not threaten us, and no one cared about gold except for small amounts of jewellery.

If governments were honest and efficient, and could be trusted to keep their promises, and money kept its value year after year and generation after generation it wouldn't matter what it was backed with, or if it was backed with anything at all.

But governments are not honest or efficient and they cannot be trusted so, in desperation, we turn to gold and silver.

So Pud, all you need to do is turn your laser like focus on government and get them to turn honest and your gold worries are over.

I'm sure everyone on Zero Hedge would be grateful.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 05:08 | 3505162 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

I thought the PUD was a troll.

If we ignore him, he will go away, it may even be Benanke having a laugh, posing as PUD, or Dimon or etc.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 06:35 | 3505205 The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

I'm PAU:

Peace. Aloha. United.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 07:57 | 3505252 deerhunter
deerhunter's picture

in 1969 I worked picking fruit summers in orchards in Lower Michigan.  I was 14 and made 8 to 10 dollars a day picking in monthly sequence, strawberries, sweet cherries, tart cherries, sweet corn, blueberries and peaches.  At the end of that summer I bought my first shotgun.  In that summer I rode a city bus with that shotgun in a case to the end of the line and then walked another 3 miles to said orchards.  We shot birds for the property owner who supplied the ammo by the case as birds raise holy hell with cherry and blueberry crops.  Excellent wingshooting practice allowed me to become accomplished skeet shooter by the end of a few rounds of the clay birds.  Imagine today in America a 14 year old standing on a corner with a long gun in a case waiting for a city bus if you will.  A dollar did indeed use to buy something.  The gun was an Ithaca 20 ga single shot lever with exterior hammer.  It was as I recall a 35.00 dollar purchase.  It may as well been a new Mercedes to me.  Those were the days indeed. 

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 11:14 | 3505423 Pareto
Pareto's picture

great story.  in the early 70"s, my father would send me to the store on my bike (major mode of transportation and independence) with a dollar where i would get him one gallon gas, a pack of shit-end darts, i would get a chocolate bar, and there would still be change left over.  But, I couldn't eat that bar until I cut the grass.  I was 8.  Life was simple.  Poor by today's standards, but, never did without.  Ever.  You never complained.  You "did".  And you were never without something to do.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 10:17 | 3505363 pbr streetgang
pbr streetgang's picture


Sat, 04/27/2013 - 14:38 | 3505791 solidus
solidus's picture

Give PUD a break.  We need as many PUD's on this board as possible.  I never feel stronger in my convictions as when the best argument an intelligent person can come up with are incredibly weak.  Kinda like when I listen to the drivel from Paul Krugman.  After listening to people such as these, I know I'm right.  Without enough dissent, all we have here is a mutual admiration society which may be right or wrong in its conclusions.  PUDs confirm our conclusions.

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