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Who Got The Golden Margin Call At The European Close?

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Gold and silver prices are plunging after the European equity markets closed. It seems someone got the tap on the shoulder and needed to fund some liquidity. Given the 'unusual' strength in high-beta European assets this week, it would suggest someone (or many someones) were short and squeezed to cover in a hurry and perhaps this post-close dump in gold and silver reflects the final end-of-week realization of losses that need to be funded.

 

 

or is it post London physical close catch down in paper from the post-GDP move?

 

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Fri, 04/26/2013 - 11:58 | 3502641 SolidSnake961
SolidSnake961's picture

how much inventory will jpm have left after today?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 11:59 | 3502649 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

How much can Jamie Dimon stuff in his pants pockets?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 11:59 | 3502654 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

gotta retest the lows.

 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 11:59 | 3502668 Mr. Fix
Mr. Fix's picture

Paper promises are in freefall, get out now!

 Any physical that can be found must be grabbed that any price.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:05 | 3502685 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

The moonshot is coming, I'm sure.  Just not after an obvious takedown.  

Check Out Silver Plummeting Live:

http://www.pmbull.com/silver-price/

Must first make all the physical buyers look like fools at the family get-together over the weekend. Few will get to buy this takedown since dealers are sold out.

Gold is still available, although shrinking fast.  

1 Ounce Ohio Precious Metal Gold Bars are STILL just $25 Over Spot:  

http://www.pmbull.com/gold-price/

How many spouses will be denied the opportunity to purchase the few remaining 1 Ounce Gold bars left because of this smackdown? 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:08 | 3502707 camaro68ss
camaro68ss's picture

The bernake is backing up the truck now as we speak. No wonder hes not at the jackson hole meeting. hes making dilverys of the fizz to his bunker.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:10 | 3502714 knukles
knukles's picture

OR, remember its options settlement time!
Lotta new shorts put on a few weeks ago during the brutalization.
So probably a lot of screw your buddies and position protection going on...
Big Time Charley

 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:19 | 3502726 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Disclousue: Iam a gold bug.

Perhaps before a continued rise we need to see the unthinkable happen - Gold falling below the all-in cost to mine - $1,200?

A bull market wants to take as few people along for the ride as possible, and this requires the bull kicking investors in the balls (true capitulation) so that they fall off and the bull can again begin to run wild.

 But as I have complete faith in my inability to call the absolute bottom, I will continue to buy physical upon every major dip!

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:22 | 3502758 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

I was a little excited this morning at 5 AM PST, but I knew the smackdown was coming.  So in a way, its even more exciting, by its sheer predictability.  Silver up big two days in a row?  Can't let that happen, now can we!   Good luck to anyone trading, because one wrong move and your ass is toast.  Stack, bitches.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:36 | 3502823 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

RISK ARB BITCHEZ. next stop "peanut butter legs" (cuz that's one he'll of a spread that's opening. In PRECIOUS no less!)

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:46 | 3502867 IndicaTive
IndicaTive's picture

There was a cheerleader in high school we nick-named Skippy. She had no idea why.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 17:18 | 3503924 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

Pladizow, if it goes to $1200 that would be confirmation that the powers are indeed positioning for a moonshot, as they have no concern with physical divergence and inventories running dry. Otherwise if it goes up from here they maintain control for a while longer.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:16 | 3502736 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

Its called fuck your buddy time. This is where the big sharks eat the little sharks while the paper price continues to chop shop whats left of the leveraged weak leafs.......its playing out according to the script. Hold and accumulate your physical and if you're not leveraged accumulate your miners.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:28 | 3502791 rogeliokh
rogeliokh's picture

Bernank need to return German GOLD, and they don't have it.
Fort Knox is filled with lead pained bars. In DEBT we Trust!

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:24 | 3503312 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Tungsten cored with a thin layer of external gold.  VERY convincing.

 Took a lot of effort to make thoset.  Not at all like the crude spray painted iron bars some African countries have tried to pass off.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:23 | 3502779 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I spoke to my LCS guy today.....Silver? Forget silver. There is no silver.

Gold was $1570 and he was running low on maples and krugs although he had some eagles.

 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:31 | 3502794 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

I spoke to my LCS guy today.....Silver? Forget silver. There is no silver.

If there was a true shortage of physical silver the price would immediately skyrocket as it's heavily weighted to industrial use. 

#logic

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:34 | 3502803 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

James please let me speak to your guy who relaxed his premiums.

how can price skyrocket on something that does not exist? How do you price it? Forget the paper price.

I will tell you what James. I will part with a small part of my silver stash to you for......$1,000 an ounce.

So is $1,000 an ounce the new price?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:40 | 3502831 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

how can price skyrocket on something that does not exist? How do you price it? Forget the paper price.

 

Tell that to Samsung, I'm sure they'll be surprised to hear all the silver they're buying and manufacturing with doesn't actually exist. 

Also, local bullion dealer has 26.80 if you buy 5000+ maples. $27.15 for one. Kind of counter intuitive if you're going on the thesis that there's a shortage.

 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:46 | 3502854 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Please give us your local dealers name. You have professed on here several times that he has relaxed premiums. In 2011 everyone was screaming about a siver shortage and my place had some. I mentioned that my place had plenty of silver. Mr. Lennon Hendrix called me out and I gave him the name and he called up and verified it. You should do the same or STFU because you are bullshitting.

There may be some people in your area that would like to buy. Those seem like good prices you have so far quoted out of thin air.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:52 | 3502902 astoriajoe
astoriajoe's picture

I think you two are talking past each other.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:52 | 3502917 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

You may be right. I'm done.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:14 | 3503025 knukles
knukles's picture

Fonz!
Did you ever check out those aircraft last night on Flightaware?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:13 | 3503031 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I went on that site but could not navigate it very well. It seemed like you had to search for a specific flight number or something. I would love to have been able to see a real time aerial view in my hood but I was exhausted and just figured I'd crash before the aliens came knocking. It was weird man.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:05 | 3503219 The Iconoclast
The Iconoclast's picture

FlightAware's mobile apps can show what's overhead.  I think from the website you can also pull up a nearby airport and then pan and zoom the map to where you are.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:54 | 3502926 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Please give us your local dealers name. You have professed on here several times that he has relaxed premiums.

Don't want my location to be cached on zh. But since you're so obsessed with this, here's one of their chain companies & rates:

http://www.bordergold.com/products.php#

I haven't heard great things about BG delivery times, but they have the same prices as the bullion dealers they work with. 

Make sure you're on USD and volume pricing. 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:04 | 3502990 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

I can give you first hand experience here.  BG is terrible for shipping.  Lead times have been pushed out and they will take your order but then in turn will immediately place an order with the mint.  It appears they have no stock.

If you've got some real life experience, would be interested.  Otherwise, STFU.

 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:22 | 3503050 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Lead times have been pushed out and they will take your order but then in turn will immediately place an order with the mint.  It appears they have no stock.

They say as much on their website. The point I was trying to make is that there's no 'silver shortage' and Fonz was obsessing over the premiums I was quoting.

If you feel their prices are good and that this is a 'historic buying opportunity' you can lock in the price and they'll get some coins minted for you. If it takes 4 weeks so what? 

Personally I have no use to buy online ($hipping + easy to buy locally etc.), but if you can't buy locally there you go. 

Anyway, this whole thing went way off track. I was originally trying to make the point that INDUSTRIAL USE has shown no shortage.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:19 | 3503279 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I was not obsessing over premiums. I was referencing scarcity. As for the difference between retail scarcity and manufacturer scarcity, I have to leave that to others to speak to.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:55 | 3504350 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

-1 then you missed the point: long shipping times and having to place an order with the mint AFTER your order WITH THE MINT saying they are having delays and shortages shows THERE ARE SHORTAGES. You Fail. ALSO since you showed no credible reporting of delivery, delays (or none) and pricing for INDUSTRIAL silver you failed on that too.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:59 | 3502934 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

Thanks, fonz, for calling BS on James Cole. Apparently, he had an emergency and could no longer post after you asked for his dealer's name.

Excellent. I always thought the guy was nothing but a hater.

Now, back to stacking. Auctions closing shortly on ebay and I be a'snipin'.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:00 | 3502961 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I just called. Nice guy answered. 4 week back order and it could take longer.

People can draw whatever conclusions they want from it.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:04 | 3502989 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

I just called. Nice guy answered. 4 week back order and it could take longer.

Did you ask about buying at retail? 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:14 | 3503026 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Thanks for the heads up Nope-1004

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:16 | 3503033 knukles
knukles's picture

Fonz
Did you ever check out those aircraft last night on Flightaware?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:51 | 3503159 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

fonz...just spoke to someone with connections with Sprott...they are not doing well but they aint at a stage to have to liquidate their physical positions....i think they would continue to liquidate the stocks of mining companies before they have to touch their physicals. they are still able to raise assets, they have recently done some deal with chinese investors on gold/silver...looks like there is still ample demand for them to raise assets with their name and reputation even though the performance of their commodity funds have tanked and offsetting the new deals...so no need to worry about them resemble a primary dealer in precious metals, well at least not yet. however, they are still dumping mining names on the TSX venture...so dont invest in those names.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:09 | 3503238 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Thanks DS. I wonder what got him bent over like that.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:10 | 3503251 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

well with performance like these:

 

http://www.sprott.com/prices-and-performance/performance/

 

what do you expect.

 

Damn sprottmoney jacked up the prices of the Koalas again.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:20 | 3503288 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I figured it had to be performance. He seems seriously married to the juniors. Yeesh.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:47 | 3503411 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

well with performance like these

Don't forget their fees, it's rather expensive to have them lose your money. Sprott cartel are some of the worst scammers in the industry. 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:50 | 3503426 klockwerks
klockwerks's picture

We use Texas Precious Metals and received an email from them last night that they had 300 monster boxes and you could order online and they would fill orders at 10 this morning. $5+ change over spot so I thought it over but by 10:04 they were sold out. No more eagles! well I will buy a couple rolls of 1/2 oz gold eagles, out of stock. I think stocks might improve in a month or so but there is a lot of buying going on

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:49 | 3502900 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Samsung also doesn't shop at Apmex, and since they have the Samsung Engineering subsidiary, the can JV and pull it out of the ground themselves, or buy unrefined off-take from other miners and refine it themselves.

The big industrial users are vertically integrated.

 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:03 | 3502946 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

The big industrial users are vertically integrated.

So? Are you trying to suggest industry buyers all have their own exclusive mines? 

or buy unrefined off-take from other miners and refine it themselves.

Most silver traditionally has come as a 'free' mining byproduct, still the cheapest for industry too. 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:19 | 3503039 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Your first question is answered by your second quote, cut the crap.

 

 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:22 | 3503065 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Your first question is answered by your second quote, cut the crap.

I was pointing that out...

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:54 | 3503188 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Then we both know if Samsung (or Mitsubishi, or any any of the other large industrial silver consumers) ever says there is a shortage, then probably- their own extensive warehouse cupboards are bare, the miners that that they have long term agreements with aren't pulling enough out of the ground, the reclamation equipment they manufacture isn't skimming enough from the landfills, and their banking and heavy equipment subsidiaries can't find enough new dirt dig in -- either that or- like GE they turned into paper-pimping banksters, and are trying to profit from what is supposed to be a hedge...

 

 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:39 | 3503378 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Then we both know if Samsung (or Mitsubishi, or any any of the other large industrial silver consumers) ever says there is a shortage

Don't need to ask the manufactures, would be seen in the price. When there were legitimate concerns around supply constraint of platinum you didn't need to ask GM if there were concerns of a shortage, it was immediately reflected in the price. 

Same thing would happen in silver. 

Gold on the other hand you could make a better argument of secret shortages but I'm not buying it. 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:55 | 3503417 akak
akak's picture

Apparently, you aren't buying much of anything that does not toe the 'mainstream', pro-establishment, pro-status-quo line.

You've been an obvious anti-PM disinfo agent here from day one.  Do you really think that that has not been instantly apparent to almost everyone here?

I still remember our first interaction here on ZH, when like (the late) Jon Nadler you repeatedly and dishonestly kept trying to insist that world gold jewelry demand is somehow entirely separate from investment demand, and serves merely as baubles, willfully ignoring the fact that the form of the gold is irrelevant to its primary and traditional function as a form of savings for those in Asia and the Middle East, where the vast bulk of gold "jewelry" is purchased and held.  I spotted you as a pro-establishment shill then, and you have not wavered from that stance since.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 15:03 | 3503490 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

You've been an obvious anti-PM disinfo agent here from day one.  Do you really think that that has not been instantly apparent to almost everyone here?

I'm not 'anti-PM,' if you have the financial flexibility to do it holding gold has historically been a smart move and continues to be so. On the other hand there's a lot of scammers out there trying to get people to ignore the market and buy at any price at any time with rumours like 'crash JPM!' '$3200 gold around the corner!' etc. 

Not everyone has the financial resources to withstand a volatile market, a lot of people don't have much resource outside their current jobs and if they need cash may be forced to sell their holdings at a big loss depending on the current spot price. 

trying to insist that world gold jewelry demand is somehow entirely separate from investment demand, and serves merely as baubles, willfully ignoring the fact that the form of the gold is irrelevant to its primary and traditional function 

Not what I was 'trying to insist' but you don't seem to get it so whatever. 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 15:22 | 3503548 akak
akak's picture

Oh yes, the worst, most egregious, most evil scammers in the financial realm are those reprehensible precious metals dealers!  Ignore Wall Street, central banksters and the utterly corrupt TBTF financial houses --- it's those precious metals dealers we REALLY have to fear!

Get the fuck out of here with your disingenous bullshit.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 15:35 | 3503598 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Ignore Wall Street, central banksters and the utterly corrupt TBTF financial houses 

Who do you think owns the mining companies?? JPM even started a bunch!

See if you notice a trend...

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/jpm/institutional-holdings

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/gg/institutional-holdings

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/nem/institutional-holdings

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/abx/institutional-holdings

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/gfi/institutional-holdings

Yeah, JPM is shaking in their boots over what your LCS is up to!

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 16:10 | 3503689 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

So the Gov't owns JPM and JPM is a huge shareholder in the miners....so what? so the miners will provide physical to JPM at the expense of everyone else....okay....

My question has always been, what does scarcity do to price? If the price keeps dropping the miners will drop like flies. No point in pulling something out of the ground to lose money. So JPM would be choking off it's own supply right?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 16:43 | 3503784 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

So the Gov't owns JPM and JPM is a huge shareholder in the miners....so what? so the miners will provide physical to JPM at the expense of everyone else....okay....

My point wasn't that the miners will provide phys to JPM, it's that a small group of funds can to a decent extent manipulate supply and demand - paper / physical whatever because of their strategic ownership. A fact something the folks saying 'buy silver crash JPM' don't seem to understand. 

And it also goes much further than JPM & the miners..

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/ubs/institutional-holdings

Check out the institutional holders of anything important (whether commodities / financials / retail etc.) and you'll see the same names reappear over & over. 

My question has always been, what does scarcity do to price? If the price keeps dropping the miners will drop like flies. No point in pulling something out of the ground to lose money. So JPM would be choking off it's own supply right?

They'll mothball some of the mines like in the 90s & concentrate on manipulating something else. Not saying that's going to happen but it could. The institutions have been pretty annoyed with crappy returns inspite of high spot price from ABX etc. for a while.

Mining has always been boom / bust.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 17:09 | 3503894 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

If these banks were so powerful they would not need the fed to bail them out every single month. If you stop QE the banks are dead. If you raise rates the banks are dead. If they keep printing money fiat dies by hyperinflation.

 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 17:37 | 3503979 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

If these banks were so powerful they would not need the fed to bail them out every single month

The fed is a bank, to a large extent run (arguably owned) by the member banks. As powerful as the banks are they have a major weakness: deflation. 

And of course that's the core reason to hold gold - the banks will not allow a deflationary environment. But don't think that stops them from being able to easily manipulate pm prices up and down. 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 17:42 | 3503997 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

after this whole circular conversation it seems we almost don't disagree about anything.

Sorry if I was hard on you. You are not what I thought you were. You kept your cool the whole way through these back and forths. Impressive.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:24 | 3504096 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

after this whole circular conversation it seems we almost don't disagree about anything.

 

I find that generally the case but people seem to get their backs up against the wall when I say perceived negative things about pms. 

I just try to point out some things that strike me as incorrect, not trying to tell people what to invest in or not invest in but I think the sell side pm guys get off wayyy too easy because they're seen as being 'the good guys.' Anytime someone has a financial interest in selling you something their views should be treated very critically. 

I've heard so many of the guys people here revere telling unsophisticated investors that mining companies (juniors, explorers, mid-tiers) are 'great' investments - not bothering to explain the extreme high risk involved or that the people hawking the stocks cycle in and out constantly. 

Then there's the newsletter writers who charge ridiculous fees to give bad advice, often paid by mining companies to promote their projects. 

PM industry is far more complicated and dangerous to invest in than a lot of people seem to realize. That said, I think gold is an important commodity to hold but don't do it to 'crash JPM' or believe that it will always go up (remember the guys saying it'll never dip below X price again?) or that any price is a good price.  

Do it for the obvious reason: hedge your wealth for the long term.

 

/rant

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 18:23 | 3504103 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I hope JPM crashes. Since no one is interested in prosecuting fraud these days I want to see it crumble.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:54 | 3504340 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

-1 you DO need to ask the manufacturers because that’s where the price is STORED. Not the spot market, not the coin market, not the .999 bar market.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:20 | 3503057 walküre
walküre's picture

Regarding Samsung and other manufacturers

Do you understand why inventories are at all time lows? The manufacturers can't afford to produce and store inventory when there is no demand for their products.

Samsung buys less silver than they used to because there not selling as much as they were before. As silver gets scarce, they will have to source the metal from producers willing to sell cheap. Good luck.

Put that order in for 5000+ maples. When can you take possession hypothetically speaking?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:29 | 3503098 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Samsung buys less silver than they used to because there not selling as much as they were before. As silver gets scarce, they will have to source the metal from producers willing to sell cheap. Good luck.

It's not getting scarce though, if that were the case the price would be way up. That's my whole point. 

Industry buying less silver in 2012 and the price has gone up or down?

http://www.silverinstitute.org/site/2013/04/24/continued-strong-silver-i...

Global silver mine production grew last year to 787.0 Moz, primarily due to by-product output from the lead/zinc sector. Primary silver mine supply grew by 1 percent to account for 28 percent of global silver mine output. Mexico was the world’s largest silver producing country in 2012, followed by China, Peru, Australia and Russia. Primary silver mine cash costs rose to $8.88 an ounce, reflecting higher prices for labor, electricity, and maintenance charges.


Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:38 | 3503126 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Some industrial users have reportedly been stockpiling (specifically I heard auto industry).  Which makes a lot of sense.  Not if you expect declining prices, of course... 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:05 | 3503220 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Those were some strange rumors, because most large consumers have their own warehouses, because they actually don't like the JUST IN TIME price and delivery risk on durable critical components.  On the other side, all the gold in the world would fit in Swiss vaults a couple times over, so there's something more than just gold driving up vault space lease rates here...

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:40 | 3503132 walküre
walküre's picture

Good point. I'd like to buy at $8.88 plus premiums. 3x the material than what I get now. Buying in incriments of $300 a month is my strategy.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:13 | 3503261 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

You probably wouldn't recognize what they are paying $9/oz for, and the minimums are exponentially larger than your desired investment scale.  Although if you have a home chemistry set, a silver smelting pot (lead pots aren't hot enough) and some bullet dies, you could manufacture your own vampire squid protection- if you can befriend someone working at the mine.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:56 | 3504348 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

-1 tell me then what Samsung actually paid on this drop. Not theory, actual reported payment price.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:30 | 3502792 dow2000
dow2000's picture

you speak the truth brother...for this reason I held off, getting to know that their game is psychological and knew this wasn't the end of it. Will back the truck up on the next dip.

Got the wife asking why every day silver is down?? Dad wants to sells his silver Eagles....and I look like the crazy tin foil hat wearing conspiracy alarmist. It's not easay being on the right side of history!

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:32 | 3502807 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

dow what happens when you back your truck up to an empty warehouse?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:46 | 3502866 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Who said the truck was empty?

-Timothy McVeigh

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:47 | 3502881 dow2000
dow2000's picture

I accumulate miners

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:51 | 3502899 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

what happens when governments start accumulating them?

- hugh hendry

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:03 | 3502945 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Also FOFOA 'S view, which pre-dates Hendry.

Physical gold, held outside the banks, under your control.

And hold on tight as the paper price will plummet and then physical gets repriced WAY higher.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:33 | 3503114 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

If gov'ts start accumulating miners, thats pretty much crossing the Rubicon.  I mean, if it happens in Eritrea thats one thing.  But Mexico, Nevada, Alaska, Canada?  Those are mining-friendly jurisdictions, and nationalizing a mine is fascist, I don't see miners, shareholders, locals, taking it lying down.  Seems to me the stock and bond market (and independent courts) would almost have to stop existing for it to happen, the repercussions would be so great. 

Seems to me revolution is more likely than things getting that bad, but I have been known for being optimistic.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:49 | 3503162 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

With physical gold re-priced massively higher the mines will be a 'windfall' that governments will largely harvest.  They won't attack individual stocks as they want that gold to flow and settle imbalances between different currency zones (in place of sovereign debt paper which is collapsing).

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 15:10 | 3503509 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

They could have also nationalized all the oil and gas fields as well, declaring a national fiscal emergency, national security situation, or some other reason. The way things are looking, it may just happen.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:23 | 3503299 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

I think nationalization of the miners a selective risk, and should be looked at case-by-case, but I don't think it's as big a systemic risk as Hendry and FOFOA make out.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:41 | 3503376 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

The thinking goes that with a massive rise in value -- say $30,000+ current value --  there will exist a huge premium that governments will collect.  They may not nationalize, and would allow a decent operating profit, but the bulk of the cream would be taken for gold's new/old role of international settlement.  That's the thinking as I understand it, Al.  We'll see.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:11 | 3502689 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Is something brewing ala 'horsehit' for the weekend before Beltane Day (May 1st)?

.

'MayDay' is 'their' second biggest occult day of the year after Samhain (Halloween)...6 month half year point.

.

Wheel Of the Year

Interesting that every single holiday is based on pagan occult roots. ALL of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_of_the_Year

.

If there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now,
It's just a spring clean for the May queen.

Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on.

 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:25 | 3502772 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Cross-quarter day - between the equinox and solstice.

Crossings of all sorts were feared places of ambiguity in the olden days. Criminals were hung at crossroads.

edit: Candlemass (Feb 2nd) or Imbolc is another cross-quarter day. Enjoy the scariness.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:27 | 3502788 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Speaking of Led Zeppelin, silver, gold, the occult and hanging...

Gallows Pole

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM1sx4HICW8

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:33 | 3502801 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Also Imbolc and July 23rd, 33 days after the Solstice are important occult dates.

If you hear about people dying in a fire around February 2nd...  You might want to look closer.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:42 | 3502839 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

These days were festival days in most all Indo-European cultures - back for thousands of years. Being neither a neo-pagan nor a student of the occult, I find them interesting culturally and historically. Many of these days are still retained with some significance to the present. No more Imbolc or Candlemass, but we have Groundhog's Day and The Presentation of the Lord. You can find similar modern equivalents for all the others.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:40 | 3502844 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

silver, gold, the occult and hanging...

Gallows Pole

Lloyd Zeppelfein?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:30 | 3502789 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Reverse for: "Here's to my sweet Satan"

As for the occult, there is more than meets the eye.  In medieval times the lingo was that you had 'a spell cast over you'.  Modern equivalent for me would be how the Boston Bombing (+Mainstream Media) was able to briefly terrorize a nation.  That is the modern day magic, sophisticated psychological warfare targeted at the masses.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:41 | 3502830 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Wheel of the Year, i.e. Star of Ishtar...

Ancient symbolic significance of number 8 is tightly connected to souls' journey to and from Earth as they pass through Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Venus, Mercury, The Sun and The Moon... Entrance & exit points are the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn (visually represented as squaring the circle)

 

There's a sign on the wall but she wants to be sure
'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:41 | 3502846 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture
Matt Taibbi - Rolling Stone Magazine April 25th, 2013

.

Conspiracy theorists of the world, believers in the hidden hands of the Rothschilds and the Masons and the Illuminati, we skeptics owe you an apology. You were right. The players may be a little different, but your basic premise is correct: The world is a rigged game. We found this out in recent months, when a series of related corruption stories spilled out of the financial sector, suggesting the world's largest banks may be fixing the prices of, well, just about everything.

.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-is-rigged-the-bigge...
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:48 | 3502894 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Only problem is he can't directly prove Rothschild involvement so he ignores it.  The head of the beast, that he describes so eloquently.  He'll get there...

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:30 | 3503071 css1971
css1971's picture

It's just the solar calendar. Makes perfect sense that's it's important to everyone.

Course there should be 13,  28 day months, we're missing one. Was it the romans that changed it?

p.s. The wheel symbol is usually depicted as a cross, you take out the diagonals.

e.g.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lowertown_celtic_cross_memorial_t...

These are all over the place where I grew up. Pre-christian by many centuries.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:48 | 3503150 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

We do have 13 months, its called the Lunar Calendar.  And women follow it  :)

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:30 | 3503103 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

May 1st, buy silver! http://youtu.be/QGZ5f1G1Ep0

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:55 | 3504344 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

‘pagan’ is just the Christian way of saying “was here before us”

How do you differentiate religion from occult? I don’t.

Ever.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:50 | 3502887 Schlomo Bergstein
Schlomo Bergstein's picture

Show me the physical in real life but in the paper game I need them to show me the volume.

This is a puzzling smackdown.

http://www.brotherjohnf.com/wp-content/uploads/SILVER42613.jpg

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:48 | 3502898 Silver Bully
Silver Bully's picture

'gotta retest the lows.'

This is exactly like the  current run on ammo supplies. People are stocking up out of fear the government is going to ban weapons. People are also stocking up on PM's because they think the government is going to take away their spending power.

They are correct on both counts.

A lower gold price does not scare us. We know the score. It doesn't matter if QE money is used for the gold market, or against it (like it was at 11 am today). The more money that is printed is more rope these thieves use to tie around their own fiat-printing necks before they lose their footing and slip off the edge. This is the time to preserve your remaining buying power. This is the time to load up on REAL money, to be used later.

The lower this goes the more explosive the rise. Take the gift being given to you and load up.

 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:22 | 3502757 Silvergood
Silvergood's picture

Keep buying amd removing precious metals from the system.  Choke them off.  Shut down their paper game. Silver is still the buying opportunity of a lifetime.  Get it any way you can.  If necessary, pay the extra premium and remove the physical metal from the system.  Even if in smaller quantities.  Everyone together will add up to big numbers. 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:01 | 3502967 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

@ParkAveFlasher:

"How much can Jamie Dimon stuff in his pants pockets?"

I've got something in my front pocket for you....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvIj_t3-kC0

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:19 | 3503042 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Nice.  Poor Butters, he takes a lot of abuse of all sorts, and unlike Kenny, is never given the honor and mercy of a glorious and sudden death.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:00 | 3502655 Middle_Finger_Market
Middle_Finger_Market's picture

Heard of channel stuffing...now we got pocket stuffing...these fuckers be TAKING the gold for themselves. Second dark age, imminent! 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:02 | 3502672 semperfi
semperfi's picture

144 tons - "gifted" from Libya

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:04 | 3502680 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

"grifted"

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 11:59 | 3502647 Middle_Finger_Market
Middle_Finger_Market's picture

Buying opps bitchez.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 11:57 | 3502656 101 years and c...
101 years and counting's picture

you're out of your mind.  we've hit the end of the bull.  pm's will take stocks down.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:00 | 3502673 Middle_Finger_Market
Middle_Finger_Market's picture

Then FEAR will take pms to the moon.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:09 | 3502710 camaro68ss
camaro68ss's picture

the smack down didnt work the first time. 2nd times a charm right, or is that 3rd?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:14 | 3502731 Middle_Finger_Market
Middle_Finger_Market's picture

Not a good time considering it's Indian festival season...there wont be any physical left!!

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:15 | 3502734 Middle_Finger_Market
Middle_Finger_Market's picture

Then what 100 paper contracts for a gram of physical?? Bitchez we bringing down the system!

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:20 | 3503046 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Every April, I say God Bless the Indians.  Every April for a few thousand years now.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:27 | 3502784 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Does 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th matter to them?

Just keep doing it until it works!

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:19 | 3502741 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Please, stick to facts. The monetization will take everything to the moon.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:19 | 3502743 Ham-bone
Ham-bone's picture

@ 101yrs

It's been 4 yrs and you haven't learned a thing...stawks ain't going down...printing will come up.  PM's a good antitode to what's coming...again.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 19:53 | 3504335 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

-1 You’re out of your mind. Until interest rates hit 10% gold is UP not down.

http://scharts.co/13AwjWR - see that?

That's 2011 stocks slam DOWN gold slams UP.

Your ignorance is revealed from the facts - the chart.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:01 | 3502664 outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

Attack and stack!

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 11:57 | 3502653 Ancona
Ancona's picture

I was wondering when the Dark Princes would bitch slap the metals today. They are later than usual....

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:32 | 3502797 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

Are they really later than usual? Quite often, it seems like they like to do this type of thing right before the weekend comes. Just ask Cypriots.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:53 | 3502915 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

A bit later in the day, I think he means. Usually they are on it from the open.  NY opens, and BAM, smackdown, and drifts lower the rest of the day (trying to get you trade, by selling at the open, and buy at the close, i.e. play the game with them).  Today it was what, 90 minutes after open?  Trying to lure in some margin buyers before yanking the rug out from under them?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:00 | 3502658 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

At least they're stealthy about it.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 11:59 | 3502666 PUD
PUD's picture

YEAH! GOOD WAY TO END MY WEEK!

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:35 | 3502808 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Break time is over, kid. Get your ass back to the mine.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:48 | 3502876 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Break time is over kid.  Get on your back, your ass is mine.

 

Fixed it for you.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:00 | 3502669 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Somebody had to wait for the closing of the physical market in London. The Chinese are out on holidays until May 1st. Monday and Tuesday are going to be difficult days for pms.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:25 | 3502785 bonderøven-farm ass
bonderøven-farm ass's picture

The lower the spot the higher I stack....bring on the manipulation.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:28 | 3502793 rayban
rayban's picture

You came out with a very good call on April 12, i.e. "judgement day" as you named it. Hope you are wrong this time. However, what's your view on PMs over next week FOMC meeting?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:17 | 3503017 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Fomc should be positive given recent weakness in economic data. The markets were expecting less from the FED, now they might be suprised by dovish comments.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:12 | 3503248 rayban
rayban's picture

I agree. I doubt it will be possible to buy gold lower than 1430-35, silver below 23.40-.45 before Wednesday but, if you are correct, in the next hours any pullback should be an excellent long opportunity.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:07 | 3502674 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

nothing but more fucking bullshit....

WHAT HAVE I TOLD YA'LL TIME AND AGAIN....

up in asia...

down on the london open....

down on the Crimex open....

down on the london close....

continue the bullshit throughout the Crimex trade...

and so on and so on...

 

today, they just said "fuck it...will just do it the london close...who care if its obvious..."

 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:03 | 3502675 machineh
machineh's picture

More proof that the charlatans ranting about shortages of physical ought to get their teeth punched in.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:07 | 3502702 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Still confused about the difference between physicsl gold in your possession and 'gold held on your behalf, allocated or unallocated, by the worlds most criminal institutions, or claims on said imaginary gold as represented by undeliverable futures contracts where, if they can't rape you by fucking with the contract price, eventually they'll do it by just failing to deliver'?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:16 | 3502737 knukles
knukles's picture

Si

ABN Amro.
We been holding it for you, and you alone, sweet-chicks.
But no, we're not going to deliver your physical property to you.
Never mind, why.
Would you like cash or some other nefarious paper product instead of your shiney?

In the olde days that would-a been fraud...
Pure clean and simple.
The remedy for which (in the good olde days) was restitution (make delivery, fuckhead) and time (Go to jail, go directly to jail, take it up the arse for 200 days).

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:21 | 3502763 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

A yes, the good old days, back when institutionalized fraud on a global scale was frowned upon, contracts were actually treated as commitments, and bankers and central bankers weren't worshipped as all-seeing, all-knowing demigods, able to control the very elements of the earth, nay, the fundamental laws of physics themselves, with a tap on the keyboard.  And where the general population still had a modicum of common sense, and the ability to call bullshit on egregious lies and criminal behavior.  Man, I really miss those days.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:01 | 3502947 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

And where the general population still had a modicum of common sense, and the ability to call bullshit on egregious lies and criminal behavior.  Man, I really miss those days.

It's hard to imagine that the Watergate hearings were carried live during the daytime by the three TV networks. For those not around then, that meant all three out of three channels. Nothing else was on (unless, of course, you were at your grandparents' house where, because it was in a good reception area and there was a good TV aerial on the roof, you could watch Spiderman cartoons and the Three Stooges on UHF).

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:25 | 3503067 sskid
sskid's picture

In the good old days they were hanged

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:12 | 3502721 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Except there is a shortage, and you may have to start stealing people's teeth.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:21 | 3502755 Toronto Kid
Toronto Kid's picture

Scotiamocatta @ downtown Toronto is out of bars. They are still able to fill small orders for gold Maples. Dunno about the other pm's. Teller said the line-ups last week were around the corner and there were lots of people turned away when they closed at 4pm. But no one behaved badly or ranted or anything.

If the price goes below $1400 again they will have those line-ups back. I wonder how many Maples Scotia has left?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:54 | 3502923 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Then why don't you hop into your Ontario-assembled Japanese car, drive up the 401 to Mtl, and visit the guys at Kitco?

Then go party till 2 am on Crescent St. Sleeman's in bottles, Guinness on tap. Just don't wear a Maple Laugh hockey jersey. Bad form, bad for chatting up Quebecoise chicks. Cheers. Good luck/_uck.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:01 | 3502955 Toronto Kid
Toronto Kid's picture

Can't. Gotta work this weekend. Sucks to be me.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:00 | 3502960 astoriajoe
astoriajoe's picture

Anyone see any stories of the people on lines at these coin shops trading with each other?

 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:21 | 3502765 Toolshed
Toolshed's picture

You are clearly misinformed, or worse, and have not attempted to obtain any physical pm's lately. Silver and gold, but especially silver,as it is more affordable and possibly has more upside potential, are in extremely short supply. Check ACTUAL availability before mouthing off and demonstrating your lack of knowledge.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:28 | 3503073 macroeconomist
macroeconomist's picture

Here is some news from Turkey, where in my entire lifetime I have never heard of a shortage of gold, where there is NO premium on the paper price regardless of how many kilogram bars you purchase..

Link: http://ekonomi.milliyet.com.tr/ceyrek-altin-karaborsa-oldu-altin-fiyatla...

Translation: Quarter-gram gold coins in black market

Due to the lowest gold price in the last two years, jewelry shops got very lively yesterday. People with their savings in bank accounts, and who want to invest in gold ran to the jewelry shops. In Adana especially, demand for quarter-gram and half-gram coins could not be met.

 

More: 

http://ekonomi.milliyet.com.tr/altin-yok-fiyat-sisti-kuyumcu-bilezik-ali...

Translation: There is no gold left, the price has popped up, jewelry shops suggested buying gold bracelets. 

A decrease in the price of gold caused the public to rush to gold. Since the Mint could not meet the demand, there was an increase in the price of some of the jewelers craftsmanship. Premiums up to 10-25 TL appeared on quarter gram coins , 

So who is the charlatan now? 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:03 | 3502676 markovchainey
markovchainey's picture

Yay!  The sale continues! 

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:04 | 3502691 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Maybe this time the Indians and the Chinese will sell instead of buying LOL.  It's almost like they don't give a fuck about these 'demonstrations of power' by the paperboys at the BBs, almost as if they actually just want to buy gold, and not speculate in the worlds most rigged and crooked casino.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:59 | 3502936 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Well, whereas an American has to hold USD to pay his taxes, and electrical bills, and credit card and mortgage and car payments, a Chinese or Indian or 'reserve currency' holder of the USD is in fact just waiting for the right moment to convert those USD (if they have any sense, that is).   Thats why people talk about commodity prices going through the moon.  If you can't nail it down, the reserve currency holders will be coming for it.  Because, you know, they naively believed the USD was a store of value there, for a second.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:04 | 3502677 maneco
maneco's picture

It's called the Exchange Stabilization Fund at work via JPM.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:04 | 3502678 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Or maybe the paper boys are just proving to everybody that, in the world of paper gold, they're still the kings.  Of course, once Comex and GLD inventories run to 0 this isn't going to be as exciting for them but for now, "WOW, I'm so impressed!  I better rush to sell my pms ASAP before they go to 0!  All hail the great and powerful bullion banks!"

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:01 | 3502679 docinthehouse
docinthehouse's picture

What happens when the "flash crash" is not a "flash".

Conditioning to hold on????

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:05 | 3502683 kaa1016
kaa1016's picture

GLD filled the gap from 4/12 to the penny. The Yen strength is finally hitting gold and silver. Stocks should be next.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:05 | 3502684 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

tI've read some posts on other blogs that infer some risk between the dates of options expiring and standing for physical deliver? Is this true? If so what is the risk?

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:15 | 3502733 seek
seek's picture

Cash settlement price is likely set by the current price of gold at the time of settlement, not on the day the delivery notice was made. I don't know this for sure as I haven't read the COMEX contract in a long long time, but that would seem to be the appropriate way to rig the settlement.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:01 | 3502951 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Well, if they physically deliver there is no real problem, is there.

But if not...

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:59 | 3502953 Trampy
Trampy's picture

settlement price means settlement price.

it's not the last sale price, but rather an average price at end of trading period.

Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:06 | 3502686 maskone909
maskone909's picture

every state has the right to coin gold and silver money.

 

makes you wonder if the prices arnt kept at these levels to prevent average joes from stacking the shit outta it....

or bankrupt states from coining the shit outta it.

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