This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Front-Line Observations From A Seasoned Gold & Silver Bullion Dealer
Submitted by Adam Taggart of Peak Prosperity,
Spikes and plunges in the U.S. dollar price of gold; this is not new. It goes back to the early 1970s. We remember that for most of the past 40 years, physical gold and silver investors, particularly in the U.S., tended to chase big rallies and buy late, while too often selling after plunges or after long periods of price erosion. Gold was sold then primarily as an inflation hedge. When it was working, speculators bought much more. When it stopped working as an inflation hedge, they first became puzzled and frustrated, then fearful, and they sold out at bottoms.
So, fast-forward to this month, and today’s gold community starts to look a bit different as the breakdown below previous gold and silver price support levels began, and especially last week, with gold going below $1400. Physical buyers were outnumbering sellers in our store by at least 5 to 1. And some of the unfortunate sellers had not changed their thinking about gold long-term; they just needed fast liquidity, which is another benefit of gold.
80 – 90% of the people who have bought gold from us in the last two weeks on the drop were already gold owners, already gold savers.
Their attitude is, gold is on sale
Robert Mish kindly took a break from operations at his bullion dealership to return for another conversation with Chris on what he's been observing on the front lines this week, transacting with both retail and wholesale customers.
Gold
Gold is a little bit backlogged. The premiums are slightly elevated. Products commonly traded, such as gold maple leafs, American eagles, and refiner one-ounce bars are 2-3 weeks out. And for some of my colleagues further away in the supply chain, 4-6 weeks out. The premiums are up to maybe $5 to $15 dollars an ounce over normal.
Silver
Silver is another story. The demand for silver has completely overwhelmed existing inventories and the ability of the mints and their refiners to produce more product. The other big mystery is: how much more silver is there to make product out of? Will the buyers be able to keep the pressure on until the price of [physical] silver and paper silver have to move up just to return the market’s equilibrium? Right now, 100-ounce silver bars, which a few months ago were trading dealer-to-dealer around melt or a little over, are now 75 cents to a $1 an ounce – not retail, our cost – and 4 to 8 weeks out. 1-ounce and 10-ounce refiner product used to be 30, 40, 50 cents. Now it’s $1.10-$1.25, our cost, 2-4 weeks out. Silver maple leafs, our cost from the prime American distributor of the Canadian Royal Mint today: $3.75. It was $1.70 a month ago. 3-4 weeks out. Silver eagles, normally a little over $2, they are $5 if you want them live; $4 if you want them in 4-6 weeks.
These premiums are the physical market saying, we are willing to pay this for real silver right now. Whether the suppliers can meet this demand and bring the premium down, we’ll see weeks from now. It is much different this time than it was in the past, in that the drop in price is bringing in buyers rather than sellers. It used to be that a rally would bring in the buyers. So we have had an important change.
The Big Picture
The powers that be guided a lot of that potential demand into paper gold and exchanged traded products of various forms. Then they slaughter those products, and I’m sure in their mind hopefully discouraged those people for a long time. But in time, changing cultures and the prosperity of people internationally in cultures which understand gold, I think is going to take its toll on the shorting game. And the shorting game will end badly. And that doesn’t mean that those who have the other side of the equation necessarily will profit, because they will find a corrupt way to burn them.
What we have now is a game of chicken between the physical buyers and the paper shorters. It is like, who will quit first? We have a shortage of physical product. But we are told by the mint distributors and the refiners Oh, don’t worry. In two, three, four, five weeks your orders will arrive. If the buying continues at the pace it’s going, or begins to expand to a greater percent of the population in this country and worldwide, eventually, by asking for delivery, the physical buyers will change the game. It is a poker game of both real cards and bluffing. Are the shorts bluffing? Yeah. But they get away with it over and over again. This time when the longs fold as they have in the past, the shorts, they sandbag the river. But the flood of fiat currency keeps rising. If buyers would stick to their guns and develop habits and understand why they buy gold and silver, the shorts will run out of sand.
Robert also shares details on the buying activity of his Asian clients. There is much for the West to emulate, particularly if it does not want to wake up one day realizing it has dis-hoarded the bulk of its bullion overseas.
Click the play button below to listen to Chris' interview with Robert Mish (41m:34s):
Click here to read the full transcript
»
- 63873 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
oh my god adam taggart and chris martenson posting on 'seasoned bullion dealers'. this is what we've come to... won't be long before they are parodied.....
Chris has got his shit together and his crash course is a must watch – but yeah, probably what you said.
Had to Google parodied.
Don't overthink this game.....you'll lose. These guys will rip your heart out and shove it up your ass if you play their game. Just buy the physical and let them crush the leveraged punks that want to take them on.
Physical shortages of gold, silver, and ammunition. If only we thought of this in advance and took action...Oh wait, we did!
+1 Amen, bro, amen.
In the interest of full disclosure, I stopped buying silver at about $17 in mid 2010. I bought a boatload then. I speculated that the price would rise and then drop, and began stockpiling physical dollars. I still believe that stocks will collapse and drag commodities down further. Will it be available? I think so. If I wasn't Fairly well stocked, I would not take the chance, and would buy now. Same with ammo. I am well stocked so I will wait.
It's funny to me that a diversified portfolio these days is.
25% Phyz PM's
25% bullets/guns
25% cash
25% food/water
I can't wait for Blackrock to issue the etf so I don't have to buy any of them
+1. Lol. Paper water. Just add liquidity.
Ticker symbol SHTF
*"This etf has everything the doomer/gloomer is looking for but does not have the time or inclination to purchase on their own. Imagine a portfolio of every essential commodity one would need in an end game scenario without having to get your fat ass off the couch to actually prepare!".
*terms of delivery may vary
Thanks for the tip. I will be looking out for the physical fitness etf.
I can't wait until someone dumps 400 million ounces of paper guns on the market and CNN shows a room full of traders getting hit by spitballs as the paper guns hit he floor.
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT Kindape (first post in the thread), the headline is billing Robert Mish as the ‘Seasoned Gold & Silver Bullion Dealer.’ Not Martenson or Taggart. Though I would take their advice on precious metals over the advice of 99% of the “experts.”
del
You want hard to get?
Just try buying silver bullets.
Booyah, motherfuckers.
BTW, told my uber-liberal golf buds today when the topic of Syria came up (Not me! And nope, no hew and outcry, just sad looks but better than excuses) that one permanent solution to the problems is to take one whole inner city and deposit it smack dab in the center of the conflict country without EBT cards.
The whole world would surrender, we could collapse the military budget, decrease transfer payments...
To quote the Veep, "This is big fucking stuff"
Black Friday in Damascus.
Why choose Physical over Paper?
'A bird in the hand is worth a hundred in the bush'
Gold is a game of musical chairs with 100 participants......and one char.
GLD is a game of musical chairs with 100 participants.....and one chair.
Fixe for you. :)
GLD is a game of musical chairs
with 100 participants...
and NO chairs!
Now its fixed.
knukles, U can get your actual silverbullets at Northwest Territorial Mint. Tho, as with the ASE's, plan on about a 3-month wait.
Yeah, but what do you want with silver bullets when lead is golden?
(Sorry, simply couldn't resist.)
I hope you realize that lead can cause blood poisoning whereas silver has anti-bacterial properties.
Seeing Silver's OK against vampires, maybe it's effective against vampire squids too??
I thought it was wooden stakes for vampires & silver bullets for werewolves...
francis, its obvious you are not keeping up with todays vamps......
Gold could drop to a dollar an ounce with a hundred year wait for physical delivery. Printing GLD shares is even better than printing hundred dollar bills
Just try buying silver bullets.
https://store.nwtmint.com/index.php?mod=search&search=silver+bullets
Just trying to help
Technically, those are cartridges. Bullets are just the projectile. If one were into reloading, casting silver bullets is likely not dissimilar from casting lead bullets and from a raw material perspective, more cost effective*.
*silver shot vs bullion
As long as the straw doesn't hold more than 10 spitballs, and you have taken a certified straw wielding class, and you have a straw license, then I would say you are a perfectly acceptable straw man.
My straw does hold 10, but I promised little Andy Kuomo I'd only load it with 7.
We're governed by de-balled, drug adled, sodomite worshipping, imbeciles!
Take that into account when balancing your portfolio.
I like to add some crazy glue to the mixture.
One also needs to be diligent in ensuring a straw safety lock is affixed to one's tongue at all times, except when the user is in a safe environment to practice spitballing. Gotta think about the children.
Also, a tongue-return release notch must be installed to prevent full automatic spitballing. Removal of this feature is a felony.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wmx0aJ1KC1w
(spain 14000 police blockade)
If Mayor Bloomberg has nightmares, it is this taking place in America before guns are confiscated.
thanks great vid.
Better hope they can still come up with enough cash to pay the cops.
Banking Slave Rebellion!
try this piece of paper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_battery like i've said "there's no shortage of capital out there to put to work"...and as the price of gold declines i would argue STRONGLY that the incentive to "put that capital to use" soars. "i can then take the profits and buy gold with it."
there's no shortage of ammo. the Federal Government is buying billions of rounds. "they make 'em for ten cents" and ain't talking plastic.
Where's that fucktard PUD? I hate to raise grim shades here but...
Where is that pribbling weather-bitten pumpion?
here's a real winner to go with your style big boy! http://seekingalpha.com/symbol/abx?source=search_general&s=abx hmmm. "keep stacking those Maple Leafs Canada."
DV, you are correct. The government is the uber rich guy in the room who can afford to buy all the ammo, for whatever price they want. The manufacturers are under contract with .gov, so they can't even tell them to F-off, or they lose their big customer. Meanwhile, the rest of us are squeezed out. As long as they take Bernanke's clown bux for ammo, it will be hard to find. When you have unlimited printable dollars, you can buy absolutely everything, as long as some people think those dollars are worth trading for.
I just sharted.
You sir have won the internet,. Congratulations
Instant water...
Where can I buy that?
I largely agree with your portfolio allocations, but were it so easy. The list of preps go on and on beyond these things. It is debilitating from a time and money stand point. It's a beautiful day here in the mid-atlantic. I could play with the kids and mow the lawn like every other family on the street and enjoy the day. But time is short, so I'll plant the garden more and work on other preps.
Just got 2 sq yards of incredible compost from a guy in the biz for 30 yrs., they use fish guts too!
+1 then my portfolio is just about right.
Don't forget leveraged 3X!!!
Gold isn't a commodity.
Next is fuel, then food...
Agreed.
But you still need some in hand for insurance.
it still might go down from hereto test the weak hands.
War is coming ... Be prepared.
What if www.tradewithdave.com is right?
'Gold is on sale.'
Utter horseshit.
Were generators 'on sale' during Hurricane Sandy?
NO. If you bought one the morning after, you probably paid a premium, if stock was available at all.
But that doesn't mean that generators were a great investment that has risen in price since then.
Damn, that was one stinky non sequiturd.
There comes a point where touting gold in the face of all evidence, and disastrous losses for clients, transitions from an honest mistake that anyone can make to a sleazy ego defense mechanism for people who will never admit they were wrong.
I've run a trend-based gold model for years. It turned negative last November and I sold. When it turns positive, I'll buy gold again.
Imagining that temporary tightness of physical means a great buying point is a fantasy for newbies and losers.
Pull the plug on gold charlatans who take you over the waterfall with infantile, self-serving rationalizations. It'll save you a lot of money.
"and disastrous losses for clients"
Qualify that remark please. What disastrous losses are you referring to? 1980? That's possible. They raised rates to 17% and crushed gold. Think that is going to happen this time? The miners? They have gotten their ass kicked. They are not gold.
I have a funny feeling my dealer would take gold off people's hands above $1500 right now. So unless you bought it at $1,925 and HAD to sell it here, most people are probably hanging in there.
Maybe, with a little luck, the S&P can once again reach where it was in 1999 on Monday.
"touting gold in the face of all evidence....sleazy ego defense mechanism for people who will never admit they were wrong"
Oh fuck me, here we go!
Ummm, get this perfectly straight screener-boy, it's wanker traders, like wanker gamblers, who never speak of their loses. But if they have a win, it's a Ticker-Tape Parade for the Peacocks.
Even with all the real world evidence staring you in the face you still can't lie straight in bed.
twoshortplanks that link you sent to your comment last night made my night.
Here is something I have been trying to wrap my head around. They knock the price of gold down, everyone goes scrambling to buy physical PM's
Obummer starts the heavy gun rhetoric post Sandy hook and gun buying goes ballistic. Not one pertinent gun bill has been passed to my knowledge, but the threat of the possibility has sparked gun/ammo sales that are off the charts.
In both cases they got the complete opposite reaction that one would assume they were trying to accomplish. So either they are incredibly stupid....or for whatever reason, they want us owning PM's and locked and loaded and stressed and paranoid to boot.
Any thoughts? Anyone else?
Unintended consequences
In both cases they got the complete opposite reaction that one would assume they were trying to accomplish. So either they are incredibly stupid....or for whatever reason, they want us owning PM's and locked and loaded and stressed and paranoid to boot.
The last bit sounds about right, what do you think all those para-military police in Boston were for? Hard to justify all that wasted money without someone to fight.
Tyrannical governments use violence and the threat of violence to control their populations, always have. Taking arms against them is exactly what they want. Gives every reason to justify the police state. See: any country where the US has trained death squads, always justified on the grounds of fighting x type of armed enemy.
PM's are great too because they're easy to confiscate and tough to move out of country (for the average person).
People who think guns are the answer for fighting tyranny really ought to watch the academy award winning documentary made about WACO. And that was back before the state had all this fancy new weaponry.
Great points....and indeed, the crux of the matter. If 'they' want you, they've given themselves the extra-legal means to come and get you. No amount of gold, guns, or getaway plans can keep you safe in Gulagistan...
on the other hand...as the article mentions, about the serial shorters...the 'they' at the very top of this crime pyramid are bluffers...scared, twisted little men with a myriad of inferiority complexes that they act out to the tremendous cost of the rest of us. Roddy McDowell's classic "The Legend of Hell House" gave the best cinematic expose of all times to the character type...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTEThky6n8A -Belasco and the prosthetic legs /Boston terror narrative as a remake of the movie? ...must see!
James, I would suggest that anyone who thinks that guns are the answer to fighting tyranny should look to the history of Afghanistan.
ATM, I would also suggest that Afghanistan did not have 300 million armed to the teeth people either. IMO don't for one second think this subject does not cross the mind's of those ruling rat's with alliterative motives.
Liberals and communists are stupid so the answer is "unintended consequences".
I think what ATM meant was that Asymetric Warfare, is the answer. Guns don't kill tyrants, patriotic insurgency does...
Unforseen consequences. Got crowbar?
if Boston is just an opening salvo then "the set up is on them not us." the American people are in the right place. "do something phuckers!" (or at least say something.) the fact that there is no response to Boston means prices fall...WE are being devalued now. "there is a point where you REALLY miss those ten million working people you used to have." to me gold falling in price means more of the most limited of resources...just plain old cash...is now on the "accelerator down." it is possible to have in effect "zero liquidity." that isn't equities but DEBT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp4jBtL7kxs
We are fools...we really are. Informative and terrifying clip. Man's greed knows no bound...yet that is what we bail out. What was that story about the rabbit that lies down with the fox? "But I'm still fox buddy"?
I think the Bonaparte line was, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
In the case of guns, the s.o.b.'s were smugly sure that a tragedy which wouldn't have been prevented by the laws they proposed would allow them to pass the laws they proposed.
I think that in the case of the manufactured precious metals crash they had other goals in mind but, yeah, expected that they would hit the price and that the peasants would all scatter.
Our elites really have no contact with average people and only an ivy league anthropologist's best guess about what any of us are thinking. They seldom stray from the bubble in which all around them genuflect. It will be a rude awakening for them when the SHTF.
Maybe. it seems stupidity is winning out. my guess is they all quietly withdraw from society at some point to some safe haven and flip the ebt card switch to off and just shoot a drone over every now and again to see when it is safe to come out and start over. But no one ever accused me of being an optomist.
I have no clue how this is going to play out, but one thing I'm sure of is they "will not" voluntarily relinquish control. Took them quit a while to get it back last time. That would mean they fully intend on going brutal on us. Thats the way it looks to me anyway.
Well the iranians have figured out how to hack a drone. Shouldn't be to hard for some enterprising citizens to figure that one out.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
That quote is one of my all time favorites and always is my first "gut instinct". Everything starts from that point with me.
People can be pretty fucking stupid, present company accepted ;-)
"excepted"...
accepted?
I think havng that (Bonaparte's wisdom) as one's baseline, jump-off point can blind one to the long laid and obviously fructifying plans of evil scheming bastards...
ori
lol...can I get an exception?
excepted
I like accepted because when you start excluding yourself from the 'Stupids' that's when you know you are accepted into their ranks. Always maintain the humility to question yourself while keeping the ability to act on your decisions. That's one of my rules but I haven't given it a number yet.
There's plenty of acceptable evidence from some of the posters around here that people can be pretty fucking stupid.
Either works. Error or Intent is another issue...
Double trouble...
ori
The gun grabbers already thought they had a mandate, then after Newtown they just thought it was a given they'd get what they want. I think they were shocked it didn't turn out that way, but they'll be back. That's why ammo prices aren't going to go down.
Joe "bite me" just confirmed that in a story on drudge. TPTB didn't get TARP the first time, either.
Which means that they are going to keep trying, go to plan "C" or whatever you want to call it. Look for another installment of mayhem from TPTB in the near future.
Hanlon's Razor
Yes, yes, liberals are not evil.. Just stupid.
Sorry, double post
EXACTLY!
When the POLs are being tried in the PEOPLE'S courts for treason and their enabler bureaucrats cry "we were only following orders"... Is when "they" will figure something went wrong. Till then, they will continue to have their EXTRAVAGANT correspondents dinners, outrageous white house parties and congressman (cue governor moonbeam brown) junkets to different countries so that they can get their 30 pieces of silver.
I wonder if these POLs know that they are traitors?????
Accidental double post.
in the mind of God, there's no such thing as a weed...or an "accident".
Yeah, remember I wrote that the "Custodians" owned the Major Banks, Central Banks and the Bullion Banks. If so, that means the Gold Take Down was merely to shake the private Allocated and Unallocated holders out of their position so as to scoop it all up. When you own most of the Bullion (through BBs) and most of the Currencies(through CBs), price is a mute point; like Airlines hedging with Oil Stocks.
In regards to manipulating, no, triggering, a run on physical, I think that has some merit. If you we're a Central Planner the last thing you want are fingerprints. The ability to hide in the shadows is determined by your ability to influence and/or control through the layers of agents. If JPM, HSBC and Goldman create a run, that's a disaster, but if they accidentally trigger a run when a Take Down backfires, well, that's a masterpiece.
My suggestion to anyone would be to put all possibilities on the table; from the logical to the rediculous, from the intuitive to the non intuitive. Let the actions of all the players determine what reality rises to the surface, not the one subject to your bias.
For me, I've already posted what floated to the surface, my opinion is irrelevant because my opinion is full of bias.
I cannot express how great a need there is to understand Holdren's Ecoscience (1977). It is all playing out in the manner he suggested.
Also, I love Silver and Gold equally however, and this is just my bias opinion here, Gold outshines Silver for me because Silver has the capacity to cripple modern industry. This means the the Central Planners could, if they wish (which I believe they will) close all Silver trading and confiscate physical. To me, this is more logical than Gold confiscation.
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/4/27_Er...
I think they would get a disappointing response to orders to turn in your silver. Different times.
From the Allocated & Unallocated holders, they would get a lovely response, not much.
From home hoarders, they would get "cold dead hands" at gun point.
They would not go after the home hoarder, they would go after the exchanges, the vaulted Silver.
The grabbers of silver will suffer the same fate as the grabbers of guns......collection of bullets first.
You DO understand that if YOUR Government wants your bullion / guns, and they assess the risk of confiscation as being unacceptable (i.e. not in their favour), they have numerous well-proven strategies for shifting the balance point towards their advantage.
Initially social media, including the Mainstream press / media; then false accusations / "Witch Hunts", finally small scale antipersonnel munitions (e.g. CS Gas - for "starters")
Trust them?? - they are NOT "Looking after YOUR interests"!!
Yes, I understand that. I assume that up front and try to plan accordingly.
Perhaps they could shut down western markets. Good luck in the east. All that assumes that there is one controlling faction that is in agreement. And good luck in trying to control a widespread black market if that consensus were reached.
For many years, importing gold into India was illegal. Quite funny in retrospect.
Yea, just like pot. Federally illegal so impossible to buy anywhere.
On the topic of guns...A real life James Bond does not carry a gun, he/she carries a Legend. If you need to carry a gun, something in your life is already amiss (You, society, politics, constitution, something).
On the topic of gun control in the US...it would have been nice if gun restrictions were not put in place due to a knee jerk reaction to something, but looking at the game play of late, it's difficult to distinguish between a move toward public safety and just another step toward Holdren's Agenda21.
Again, put all the possible options on the table and let the body of evidence bring the true agenda into focus.
Now wait a minute there TSP, always respect your opinion but...its never nice, under any circumstances, to deprive or infringe on a persons inate right to defend themself.
They will do it, with the most effective means possible, legally or illegally, it will happen. Don't make criminals of the virtuous.
For example, widow granny on the hard side of town has the same right to protect herself with a cheap Saturday Night Special, even though she's now considered "odd' by her neighbors, as the the rich dude in the condo on the beach with an AR15...even though he's considered odd by someone elses standard who lives next door.
Flip it around and Granny actually needs the AR15 more than the cat in the condo...but they both feel that need and know only they can protect themselves when seconds count and police are only minutes away.
Gun control in America is now a dead issue, thankfully. Surprisingly enough, it took a bunch of dead kids and teachers who couldn't defend themslves against a madman to do it.
With respect nmewn, I'm not oppressing anyones' rights nor their opinion.
All I'm saying is that I believe;
1. In a fair society there is no need for guns. If you feel you need guns in your country, you should ask a simle question, why so?
2. That recent US gun control activity (politics etc) hints toward OTHER agendas.
My analogy of guns and spying is simple; if a spy needs a gun then by simply possessing a gun he's already compromised his innocence and looks suspicious therefore, his best defense is actually a highly polished and faultless fictitious second life. This is the principle of a Legend. Relating this to a society; if someone feels they need access to a gun for self defense, then by simple logic there must be something wrong, this may reside within the individual or his/her environment. A fear of safety muct come from somewhere...so where?
In regards to a society armed-up, a Mexican Standoff is not the only solution however, in saying that, with a Government the likes of what we are seeing in the US, with the actions they are taking, I'd be Yowied up and Parker Hale in hand by now.
Do you understand what is going on here?
http://www.politicalforum.com/economics-trade/258976-former-chief-economist-imf-quiet-coup.html
Former chief economist from IMF.
http://www.uwec.edu/sfpj/Origins.pdf
[71] As one reporter put it in 1991: "Increasingly isolated from mainstream America, today's troops tend to view the
civilian world with suspicion and sometimes hostility." In 1991 The Washington Post reported that in "interview after interview across the services, senior leaders and noncommissioned officers stressed that they cannot be ready to fight without frequent rehearsals of perishable skills."[75]
As Senator Dick Durbin said: "The banks own Washington."
ATLANTIC MAGAZINE: The Quiet CoupThe crash has laid bare many unpleasant truths about the United States. One of the most alarming, says a former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund, is that the finance industry has effectively captured our government—a state of affairs that more typically describes emerging markets, and is at the center of many emerging-market crises. If the IMF’s staff could speak freely about the U.S., it would tell us what it tells all countries in this situation: recovery will fail unless we break the financial oligarchy that is blocking essential reform. And if we are to prevent a true depression, we’re running out of time. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/05/the-quiet-coup/307364/ But there’s a deeper and more disturbing similarity: elite business interests—financiers, in the case of the U.S.—played a central role in creating the crisis, making ever-larger gambles, with the implicit backing of the government, until the inevitable collapse. More alarming, they are now using their influence to prevent precisely the sorts of reforms that are needed, and fast, to pull the economy out of its nosedive. The government seems helpless, or unwilling, to act against them.
The problem with Politics and Economics mixed together, is that it becomes a Hydra.
If the Financial Oligarchy have something over the US Government, it is the threat of unwinding (defaulting upon) Derivatives (OTCs). A financial Cold War of sorts....and bail me out or I'll flip the switch.
The solution is simple, and can be best seen in Andrew Mellon's advice to President Herbert Hoover: "liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate farmers, liquidate real estate… it will purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down. People will work harder, live a more moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up from less competent people."
TSP,
There has never been, nor will there be a "fair society" utopia. There will always be screwed up people that deadly force needs to be applied to.
Whether they got that way through addiction, greed, lust, seeking vengence for some percieved wrong or are just generally evil little pricks is completely irrelevant when they are standing in front of the intended victim. And there will always be someone stronger (or entity) without the mental capacity or desire to restrain themselves.
Firearms are a tool, an equalizing force in the hands of the innocent.
The "bad guys" I speak about above will not abide by any man-made written law by virtue of their nature, they are criminals, they are the bad people...so it makes absolutely no sense to create criminals of the innocent by creating laws that restrict their rights to protect themselves or make them easier targets as unarmed victims, to the bad, because they adhered to the law.
Someone will be along to check my grammar, syntax and spelling in a minute ;-)
"Someone will be along to check my grammar, syntax and spelling in a minute ;-)"....hahahaha, fucking brilliant!
lol...we don't have to agree on everything TSP...just the really important stuff.
And that ain't me down arrowing...prolly my little troll that tails me around ;-)
Agreed.
Sometimes I'll get a thumbs down within 20 seconds of my post going up. No chance they would have been able to read it. Sometimes I'll get one within a second....Bots?!
Just bruised ego low lifes more than likely.
I've made a few on-line enemies, hopefully more friends than that though. What matters is getting your opinion across, how its "accepted"...lol...is up to the reader. But I do cherish my enemies, as they are mostly silent ;-)
As two of my brethren and favorite posters, it's good to see you getting on amicably through this slight misalignment in viewpoint...
As an observation, I can see both points which usually indicates either a matter of taste or a matter of context... in this case, I think it's context. I get TSP's point but we are WAYYYYYY past the point of turning that big wheel back. It's like boiling the ocean at this point. Too many guns in the hands of too many and too much history of resorting to their use baked into our culture for the sort of Utopia he describes. It's not a BAD point - just unrealistic. It's something to strive for but it is a far thing from where (and who) we are today.
It has also been said that the greatest personal liberty achieved comes during that brief period of time when the people and the government are similarly armed. I agree with this. Skew that balance to one side and there is drift towards either tyranny or anarchy. So, to TSP's point, both sides having NO weapons is preferable to both sides being armed to the teeth.
Keep up the good fight fellas.
Good to see you again Bones.
And thats all it was, just a misalignment of views. I got his point thoroughly and some say it would be wonderful if it were so, that all humans shared the same interests & goals.
I'm just not one of them. I think it would be unhealthy overall and we would also be easier to herd in my estimation, for one (or an entity) so inclined to do so.
Human nature has not changed much in thousands of years. Its still full of all the things that make us human, the bad...greed, powerlust, envy...and the good...compassion, love, humility.
The weak will always need protection from the "bad" strong and the "good" strong can't always be there when needed by the weak, I guess is the simplest way I can explain it. Thats why I view armed self defense as a human right.
As shocking as this will sound to many who will read this, even a convicted criminal (parolee) has that natural right to a firearm...to protect himself from other armed criminals...its just that "the law" has said no, he can't do it with a gun, which puts him at a distinct disadvantage, by law, to the another criminal who is not complying...but has nothing to do with his natural right to do so.
Rights & law are two different things. A law can only restrict or protect the rights one is already born with.
One fearless savanna holds neither fang nor foot.
The other a gorilla with a gun, and the benevolent spy Dian Fossey in Kevlar.
a FAIR society?
Where would that be?
With respect TSP, and I do hold you in high esteem, you're simply wrong when it comes to guns. The reason why guns are necessary in essentially all of our lives is not because something in our own personal lives is amiss, but because there is something in the psyche of a small portion of the population that is horribly amiss and must be defended against. This portion of the populace are those who I term predators. These are people with a minimal conscience and a great willingness to commit violence. There is no amount of logic, reason, anger, or reflection that is going to hold them at bay. They can't be reasoned with. They understand only one thing: violence. If you are unfortunate enough to encounter one of these predators outside of an incarceration situation, the choice will most likely boil down to you or them. We can be thankful that most of these predators are merely street criminals so their opportunity to commit sytematic violence against the rest of us is somewhat limited. Eventually many of these predators are caught or killed. Some aren't.
The really terrifying possibility, and this does happen every now and then, is that you end up with a more intelligent or inspired predator that ends up in a position of power where their ability to commit acts of violence is on a much larger scale. This in a nutshell is why the right to defend yourself and own the tools to use to do so is a basic human right. All the other rights are irrelevant if you're too dead to exercise them.
+1000
I used to work in Investment Banking and my gut feeling is that this takedown was somebody's bright idea to solve some problem.
Probably it was JPM trying to solve the problem of their vaults being almost empty of Elligible Gold - a "too many of our shorts are resulting on demands for physical delivelry so lets double-down to slam the price down" similar to what happened with The Whale in London.
These guys think of themselves as being far more intelligent than everybody else, a circular system of self-belief: "we are paid so much money that we must be the best 'cause they would only pay so much money for the best". The thing is that they're mostly bright but nowhere near as much as they think, they're very disorganized, prone to groupthink and being blinded by their own egos and there are plenty of even more intelligent people out here.
So I would say that the run on physical that followed the slamdown on paper gold was a huge surprise to everybody (certainly, it surprised me).
I believe that you're right that this was an unintended consequence of someone or a group of someone's "bright idea." Keep in mind that these folks are very western-centric. Their thinking is based on western norms and if the market reaction was limited to the west, it probably would have played out as they expected. There really is a tendency for western markets to discount the reactions of the "wogs and chinks."
They didn't expect the Chinese and Indian reaction to be what it was. And they're the ones driving the PM markets now.
They didn't expect the Chinese and Indian reaction to be what it was. And they're the ones driving the PM markets now.
You forgot Asians.
TSP: Can you give a quick breakdown on how you think Holdren's Ecoscience is being played out at this time? I see the chemtrails, the GMO, the debt servitude, the $100 trillion+ of unfunded liabilities, and I think depopulation agenda. Is that what Holdren, Obama's science advisor, wants? I recall Huxley saying that in the future we'd be dominated not by a hot tyranny, but by a scientific dictatorship.
When official government and media action and lies, year-in and year-out accumulate and then continue to accelerate, this is the public's response.
We don't need polls to tell us what to think, readership of Newspapers is way down, nightly news also, the public knows whats up. they may not talk openly about their innermost convictions because they fear being singled out, ridiculed, lose a job, or be put on a list, that is NOT easy to get off.
But actions like buying guns, ammo, and PM's can be done without saying much about why, and thus not drawing much attention to yourself.
So either they are incredibly stupid....or for whatever reason, they want us owning PM's and locked and loaded and stressed and paranoid to boot.
First answer is a winner.
They are indeed incredible stupid (like most liberals who believe that the world will eventually turn according to their wishes...)
TPTB aren't stupid. You're making a horrible mistake, if you make that assumption.
Psychotic? Megalomaniacs? Narcisistic? Oh, yes.
Some of their reps and proxies may in fact be. But the guys that really pull the strings? Not a chance.
You don't amass the level of wealth and power these parasites have by being a fool. Advancing your agenda by walking on the corpses of your fellow man can only explain so much.
the smartest guys in the room? I don't think so-- just a bunch of crooks that will use murder to get their way -- a blueprint for corruption -kill a few and the rest will step into line.
It is not wise to underestimate the enemy. As things worsen, property confiscation and changing any law that doesn't serve the interests of the elite will be carried out in an attempt to reinstall a feudal system. The plebians will have no upward mobility, save to become the Groom of the Stool, so to speak, for the powerful. Forget freedom and the right to pursue happiness -- wiping master's butt will replace all that.
@Fonzannoon
My guess is that they had to speed up the process because of increasing awareness. Ideally probably woulda been more subtle and slower...
fonz:
Well, the caring .gov of CT has: http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/04/us/connecticut-gun-law-overhaul/
{I link you to CNN, since we would be the fifth and sixth people actually to read the page}
My thinking is that gun control, the reactions to atrocities, etc. are all shiny and pretty things in the right hand. We wonder what the left hand is doing.
I had heard that Obamacare had a provision to register PMs, haven't had time to research that,
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-111publ148/pdf/PLAW-111publ148.pdf after all, the garage has to be cleaned out.
We know that Billy and Cas have studied FDR and National Socialism, both of whom used then state of the art data processing capabilities.
- Ned
Fonz, same as I was thinking last night. The question that kept coming to mind was, why! Why would they want people to be prepared? It does not appear as they promote self reliance, just the opposite, rely on big brother. My thoughts are always geared to, what can it hurt to be prepared for the worst. It's not like your investment money is safe in a bank or with some broker so you put aside what you are able in pm's, survival items to last for a couple of years and it ends up to good old common sense. If my pm's go down in value, it just doesn't matter as they just sit in the safe and I really don't need the money right now. Few years when I croak, grandkids will get into the safe and wonder why grandpa has all this metal including these great guns (part of them anyway as the rest I sleep with) Can't lose. I think the guy that laid out the perfect portfolio was spot on. Safe stuff in these days
Only moronic, short-term traders were, in any meaningful sense, "wrong" about gold in the context of the recent, obviously manipulated down-spike. It has already retraced 50% of its "losses", and the notion that the bull market is over, based on the slightest understanding of fundamentals, is absurd.
Oh, and spare us any further tales of your excellent timing.
have a problem with lower prices for gold? explain...
Your myopic, short-term focus will be your own undoing --- and justice served at the same time.
Clearly, you have never played "musical chairs".
-This a good time to buy more
-I'm discouraged about PMs now
"It is like, who will quit first?"
Come vote early and vote often
How do I vote for both?
Gold will triumph. It may be your grandkids children's inherited gold, but it will triumph.
Good point BS... That's what gets me through the day. If the reckoning is two generations off, then I won't have to live through the worst of it. If it's two days off, then I am as prepared as I can be - physically, mentally, and spiritually - to get through it. Either outcome will be what will be - That's the only part I don't control.
Gold is money. How can not buying money with paper save me money?
There comes a point when touting gold in the face of all evidence
There comes a point when I have to award the Most Dishonest Post Of the Week Award, and that time is now. You're counting on people forgetting what you said, just like Mark Hulbert and David Weidner and Jon Hilsenrath and the rest of the bought and paid for shills. But the Crucible does not forget. The Crucible will haunt you and taunt you with your own words down every step of your bitter path into the Black Lands of Despair, Regrets and Gnawing Poverty.
And on the bottom step, I will pinch your butt with my golden pliers.
Keeping a shash of gold is something akin to health insurance, learning CPR, buying home insurance, or wearing your seatbelt. None of these are needed until they are.
Dave Harrison of Trade With Dave says, if gold is manipulated like everyone says, why own it?
That is a question not a statement.
How exactly does one manipulate non counterparty physical? That too is a question.
...tungsten withstanding
If paper gold is manipulated like everyone says, why own it?
Here, I fixed it for you.
Oh, you've got a "trend-based gold model"? Those models always work, so you must be right about gold. And probably fantastically wealthy from all your trading profits, too.
How's that "temporary" shortage of ammunition supply going???????
temporary for 5 years now.........just like the run-up in PM prices
Waiting for PUS to pop in and bring up the enslaved African mercury mud children in 4, 3, 2, .....
Must be out to dinner eating tuna. Hopefully none of his silver amalgam fillings will fall out.
I was thinking of PUS as I was eating my roasted whooping crane this afternoon. It tasted almost just like chicken.
One can eat baby seal, delicious as it is, only so many days in a row.
Pus' Mom is home and needed the puter to look for another job in which to support his lazy treehugging ass.
Don't be a tree hater.
True. They make great firewood.