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The Highest Concentration Of Bitcoins In The World Is In... Berlin

Tyler Durden's picture


Via Michael Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,

Fascinating article out today from the Guardian about the Kreuzberg area of Berlin, which has the highest density of businesses accepting Bitcoin in the world.



The clip above a must watch, as it becomes readily apparent how excited both the merchants and the customers are about using this free market currency.  I am completely convinced that the more people learn about Bitcoin and use it, the more exponential its adoption will become.  My favorite line from the video comes at the very end from Joerg Platzer, owner of the bar Room 77:

“Every day we do not start using a free currency like Bitcoin, we actually actively vote for the current system to continue.”

From the Guardian:

Like Chebli, Martens, whose Kersenvlaai (cherry cake) from her native Maastricht is rated as one of the best culinary offerings of the area, says she decided to accept Bitcoins because of the ease, cheapness and transparency of its payment system.


“It’s an easier way of digital payment than credit cards, which cost me a lot of money as a business and to which I’m forced to sign up for years,” she says.


These two tradespeople are among around a dozen in the Graefekiez, a cosy neighborhood established in the 19th century in the southern Berlin district of Kreuzberg, which currently boasts the highest density of businesses accepting the currency in the world. Its growing list of Bitcoin establishments includes a restaurant, a printing shop, a bar and boutique.


“Kreuzberg is traditionally an area in which people are very politically aware, critical towards existing systems and are constantly discussing and looking for alternatives to them, which makes it the perfect breeding ground for Bitcoin,” says Joerg Platzer, a staunch Bitcoin advocate who roams the neighborhood with a missionary zeal in search of new recruits.


“It could be from a science fiction novel, but the fact is we have it in the here and the now,” Gallas said, listing the items he has bought with Bitcoins, including “honey from Thailand, historic flags from the United States, gold and silver, concert tickets”, and of course, his beer and burgers.


He taps the amount he owes Room 77 into the virtual Bitcoin wallet on his Android phone and, aligning it with a code on the bar’s device, presses a button to process the payment. A theatrical “kerching” sound follows and Gallas is grinning from ear to ear. “It could hardly be easier,” he insisted.


Platzer buys the beer for Room 77 from the nearby Rollberg brewery, owned and run by qualified brew and malt meister Wilko Bereit. He pays for the barrels with Bitcoins and, while Bereit says he doesn’t fully understand the workings of the payment system, he is willing to trust it. “There is no middle man involved,” he said, talking in his hop-scented brewing parlour with its gleaming copper kettles, and casually dropping into the conversation that the German president is among his customers.

Looks like the first localized Bitcoin economy has been born.  Go Kreuzberg!

Full article here.


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Sat, 04/27/2013 - 15:53 | 3505939 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Winkle ~ Branden ~ BERG ~ STEIN ~ Oktoberfest ~ Oompa Loompa Doopity Do ~ Concerti's bitchez!

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 15:54 | 3505945 prains
prains's picture

so were some of the biggest mortgage back security purchases for JPM and GS, look how that turned out for them

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 15:58 | 3505952 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Yippie kay - yay HANS...

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:41 | 3506080 markmotive
markmotive's picture

What happens when the lights go out?

I'm not convinced bitcoins aren't just as bad as fiat.

Bitcoins vs. Euros:

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:50 | 3506107 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture



I thought Bitcoins existed everywhere, and nowhere, at the same time...


Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:32 | 3506194 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

It's what's known as a:


PSYCHO~ALPHA~DISCO~BETA~BIO~AQUA-DOO~LOOP... [The 'Undersea World of Jacques CUSTODIAN has even produced movies about it]...

~~~ [LIVE ~ but sometimes gets cut off] [FULL VERSION]

It's a song about, in other terms, jew sychophants, who... "Never learned to swim... Can't comprehend all the strokes"...



Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:40 | 3506273 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> “Every day we do not start using a free currency like Bitcoin, we actually actively vote for the current system to continue.”


How I learned to love Bitcoin  ...

... or ...

How I got duped into using another worthless fiat currency that's even worse than paper.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:47 | 3506426 quintago
quintago's picture

Meanwhile, over at MtGox.... 503 error; service unavailably

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 02:44 | 3507050 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

?? Gox running fine. Some people really seem to be extrremely feared of bitcoin, that's all.

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 07:38 | 3507167 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Feared?... Not me [because I don't use 'em]... I'd be more 'FEARED' if I was bitcoin user publishing wild tales about my trading PROFITS [which I wasn't reporting to the IRS] on an internet blog...

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 08:03 | 3507191 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Yeah....I wouldn't do that. The IRS has a fleet of brand new assassins with nothing to do until Bozocare kicks in.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 19:35 | 3506491 Matt
Matt's picture

If the government declared that gold coins, and only gold coins, are legal tender, than gold would be fiat. 

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 22:42 | 3506844 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

gold is backed by its intrinsic value, and it is rare. Fiat money has no intrinsic value.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 23:18 | 3506885 Matt
Matt's picture

Fiat MEANS "By Decree". Any currency that is decreed to be the currency of the realm is fiat.

This is seperate from money being backed purely by faith, or by a commodity.

If the government made gold currency by decree, it would be fiat, and it would still be gold.

"having no intrinsic value" does not mean "fiat".

If people cannot even understand what words mean, how can they have a discussion about anything?

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 01:09 | 3507003 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

r u being del8berately obtuse?

or r u retarded?

semantics dont feed the fambly when the chips r down but hard money in the hand will

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 16:13 | 3508053 Matt
Matt's picture

When it comes to anything to do with Economics, semantics are everything. For example, the term "Inflation" has several different meanings. Two people could mean the exact same thing, but argue for hours, because they each use a different meaning for "inflation". Agreeing on what words mean at the beginning, can save many times as much time later on.

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 14:26 | 3507833 Mr. Magniloquent
Mr. Magniloquent's picture

Fiat does literally translate to, "by decree", but that statement is short-hand for "arbitrarily created by decree". The creation of gold, is not as simple as scribing on a piece of paper--no matter what JP Morgan claims.

Similarly, there is a difference between knowledge and wisdom. Learn the distinction.

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 03:53 | 3507065 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 05:13 | 3507100 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

Has teacher let you on the computer again, now take your meds and go over there look out of the window and rock gently.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:36 | 3506399 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

You sound like you are on drugs. You know that is how the Jews get into your mind?

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 11:38 | 3506638 fuu
fuu's picture

Is that a giant flying cock?

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 15:35 | 3507987 malikai
malikai's picture

What in the fuck did I just click on?

Mon, 04/29/2013 - 00:42 | 3509109 fuu
fuu's picture

It's from francis' video above.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 19:26 | 3506482 monkeyboy
monkeyboy's picture

Schrödinger's bitcoin?

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 12:24 | 3507546 SgtSchultz
SgtSchultz's picture

The Seinfeld of currency?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:42 | 3506407 Aeternus
Aeternus's picture

Die größte Konzentration von bitcoins ist in meinen Hosen.


Wahr geschichte!

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 15:56 | 3505944 sitenine
sitenine's picture


“Every day we do not start using a free currency like Bitcoin, we actually actively vote for the current system to continue.”

If it can't be traced, it can't be taxed. You think TPTB will actually let a system like that REPLACE State issued fiat? If so, you're a moron.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:10 | 3505968 The Heart
The Heart's picture

"You think TPTB will actually let a system like that REPLACE State issued fiat?"

The end game is a traceable taxable trackable digital babylonian currency, not a privately run one. The only problem is, they have that on the planning boards for the next world. It does not include most human beings that are alive today. They will roll it out after they blow most of all the biological life off the planet face first...and then implement this system of money control.

Here is a story that is going viral now. The good news is, people are waking up to the phoney-baloney barf that is called news, and put out on the major propaganda mind-control networks in the nightly church of the brain dead. They are now just turning the TV's off and getting their news here at ZH. Give thanks!

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 21:58 | 3506743 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

people are waking up to the phoney-baloney barf that is called news,...


You said "barf".  I haven't heard that term used seriously since the 6th grade. 


1969 was a long time ago, but I think I still prefer it to the more poignent "puke" in that it depicts a complete wretching from the entire digestive tract and not just the stomach.  Something the adolescent being can better relate to as an illness and before being acquainted with the reactions with an over-indulgent evening with alcohol induced "pleasure".


Thanks for the memories.

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 01:16 | 3507011 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

Russia Today moralising on press standards makes me smile

Like they dont spin every story to the Russian gubbermint agenda

They are a nice counter to some of the excesses of Western media but are as biased and manipulative as all of their kind

They all serve the same master though he has many heads

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 21:16 | 3505997 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

+1 for figuring out that TPTB will fight this.

+1000 for those saying "fucks ya's, anyways" to TPTB.

+2 for burning cars in Berlin.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:41 | 3506280 unununium
unununium's picture

Call Time X the breakeven time, where fighting bitcoin has a better return for TPTB than ignoring it. 

They were asleep, and Time X probably passed somewhere in 2010.

Bitcoin is now very expensive to ignore, but even more expensive to fight, and the economics get worse every day.

This benign revolution is utterly unstoppable.




Sat, 04/27/2013 - 15:55 | 3505954 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

How can one really know where the highest concentration of bitcoins in the world is?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:05 | 3505965 TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

ZH misquoted and took certain KWN liberties with the article. "Highest density of businesses accepting" isn't the same as highest concentration of bitcoins.  Not sure why they did this as the original statement is more important than their misquoted title.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:57 | 3506129 Catch-22
Catch-22's picture

Well Canada is ready for bitcoins… taxes already on the books.


Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:58 | 3506143 Catch-22
Catch-22's picture

"The nature of the currency makes it attractive for would-be tax evaders, whether motivated by simple greed or the political belief that levying taxes is an act of violence on the part of the government, and should be resisted." RT

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:48 | 3506306 nmewn
nmewn's picture many times do they think the same dollar (or C$) should be taxed?

Answer...until there is no value left in it.

"If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 15:38 | 3507993 malikai
malikai's picture

Sad but true.

What is the meaning of life?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:09 | 3506351 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Having read this article, I'd say that CRA made a 'policy statement'.  But it's a 'policy' they will have as much success enforcing as peer-to-peer barter.  They will rely on the 'honesty' (gullibility/stupidity) of the participants to document and report all barter activity, or on 'snitches' to rat on barter parites. 

When tax laws are passed by clepto-bureaucrats, to satisfy reckless political bosses, we no longer have "representative" or democratic government, but a ruling Cleptocracy.  Then it's time to either kick out cleptocrats and their bosses by the political/election process (public soft dissent), or chase out by "pitchforks & knives" (public's hard dissent). 

/ In Canada's case , it's chase oot with "pitchforks, knives and hockey sticks", since they are not allowed to have guns & ammo (beyond the few hunting rifles and shotguns found here and there).  Heck, Hell's Angels and their ilk have more G&A than Canadians.  /s

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 19:45 | 3506497 Matt
Matt's picture

On the upside, you can now write off all your electricity as a business expense, since some portion of it was used to generate income.

I wonder what documentation they require? Just give them the addresses used and refer them to the blockchain, LOL. Claim losses on bitcoin, would be difficult to prove or disprove.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 15:59 | 3505959 css1971
css1971's picture

This is typical for Berlin. There's a lot of very good computer people here (CCC for example). The culture is very artistic and open. For Germany's capital city it's remarkably non German.

Having said that. Doesn't sound to me like bitcoin scales if all transactions are published to the network. It's going to get very big very fast.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:19 | 3506025 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"Doesn't sound to me like bitcoin scales if all transactions are published to the network. It's going to get very big very fast."

Not sure I get your point.  Bitcoins are subdividable to 8 decimal places.

Maybe it's a secret plan to overload and crash the Net.

Isn't this fun?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:34 | 3506071 css1971
css1971's picture

Well, while usage quite small, broadcasting each transaction to the bitcoin network isn't going to be a problem. But if it grows then the number of broadcast transactions also grows. Imagine if millions are using it and millions upon millions of transactions are being broadcast to the bitcoin network.

It's my understanding the network performs transaction consistency checking. How does the network cope with very large numbers of transactions? It doesn't.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:43 | 3506094 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

It doesn't need to.  Not every transaction needs to be recorded on the blockchain - people can transact off the blockchain and then clearing houses can do larger "settlement transactions" on the blockchain with less frequency.  As the blockchain becomes more crowded with transactions, the cost per transaction will naturally increase and that will cause entrepreneurs to find new ways to further decentralize the network.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:53 | 3506126 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

So there is an actual acknowledged flaw in bitcoin, that grows with scale? And the response from bitcoiners is basically "ah yeah, that unsustainability flaw and exponential growth problem? Don't worry it will be fixed at some point". Eh, ok.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:38 | 3506406 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Right, the free market solves problems when there is an economic incentive to do so.  Sorry if that hurts your brain or destroys your worldview.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 19:02 | 3506445 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

Can that same facile reasoning be applied to other issues?


How about the unsustainability of exponential debt? "Ah that's ok, the free market will magically deliver a mechanism to solve that as soon as economically necessary"


Take that Deus Ex Machina and shove it. Sorry if that hurts or destroys your anus.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 21:05 | 3506643 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

The free market can't sustain that level of debt, numbskull.  Government debt isn't a product of the free market - Bitcoin is.

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 01:04 | 3506992 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

There are no free markets, numbskull. Once you realize that you are one step closer to enlightenment. And even if there were, free markets would still not be a panacea for every flaw in every shitty business model. The fact you got upvotes for that lame Deus Ex Machina proves there are some morons out and about today.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 19:52 | 3506512 wintermute
wintermute's picture

Dr Benway, is your argument against the scalability of any system is that it must fail because it can't be scaled in nanoseconds??

So when Bezos started Amazon his whole business model was fatally flawed because he could not immediately build giant warehouses full of robots and conveyor belts to satisfy global demand for millions of books?

Wozniak and Jobs started Apple from their garage and it became the largest company in the world. How did that happen in your world-view?



Sun, 04/28/2013 - 00:59 | 3506988 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

It's interesting that you would choose amazon as your example, as it is hard to find a business model more eminently scalable than Internet sales, provided you have margin. My problem is when business models are inherently unscalable and have fatal flaws. Two very different things. But when the level of argument is "if you don't like bitcoin you are a socialist", then there is no point arguing with you using reason.

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 07:02 | 3507141 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

Amazon business model?

How much real and substantial profit has Amazon booked in it's entire history?

RiskReversal(@ Minyanville) sez not so much:


As we’ve said before, AMZN is the world’s favorite not-for-profit company.  It has not managed a substantial profit (more than 1% of current market cap) in its entire history as a company.  It has made incredible strides as a service-provider, no doubt.  But as an investment, it’s always “the next 5 years” growth story, never profits in the here and now.


So whatever the purported reasoning for the downgrade, AMZN is a stock driven much more by sentiment and psychology than earnings beats or misses.

Read more:

Maybe he should still be concentrating on the latter part of the following quote:

"Giving away money takes as much attention as building a successful company" ~ Jeff Bezos
I guess the definition of success is a matter of perception.
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:35 | 3506211 css1971
css1971's picture

From the wiki:

A block chain is a transaction database shared by all nodes participating in a system based on the Bitcoin protocol. A full copy of a currency's block chain contains every transaction ever executed in the currency.


The block chain is broadcasted to all nodes on the networking using a flood protocol

Sound like you've got yourself an n2 problem to solve there and why it doesn't look like it scales to me.

There are 7 billion people in the world. Imagine they all have smartphones, it isn't going to take so long. NFC is rolling out now on them.

that will cause entrepreneurs to find new ways to further decentralize the network

I take this to mean "and at this point magic happens".

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:43 | 3506409 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Did you not read the content of my post?  At a certain point (where transaction costs rise) there is a financial incentive for people to transact off the blockchain and use clearing houses to settle aggregate debts.

You're doing the same thing all socialists do - call the free market "magic" in a condescending way.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 21:13 | 3506662 taniquetil
taniquetil's picture

But doesn't having centralized clearing houses sort of defeat the purpose?


Or are we assuming that a centralized clearing house will do it all for free?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 19:55 | 3506520 wintermute
wintermute's picture

90% of all Bitcoin transactions are being internalized by companies in the ecosystem: Bitpay, Mt Gox, Coinbase all do most of their transfers within their systems.


Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:50 | 3506113 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

It probably helped that the German Government tried to get away from Mr. Softy a decade ago... and that KDE e.V. is based in Berlin...

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:06 | 3506165 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Obviously these Berlin cops aren't "real men", compared to the truncheon-swinging, pepper-spraying US cops.  /sarc

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 15:58 | 3505961 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

Liebling Kreuzberg.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:20 | 3506371 Confused
Confused's picture

Ich auch.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:09 | 3505977 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

As a transactional currency, hell yeah. Cut out the banksters.

As a SOV, we'll see.  I'll primarily hold gold, thanks for askin'.

Dieter asks "You want to touch my monkey?  Looove, my monkey."

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:25 | 3506229 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Is time on Sprockets vee do zee Trout.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:07 | 3505980 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

ZH needs to get behind this. Sure keep your gold but transact in Bitcoin. The people's money.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:18 | 3505988 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

Im sorry, but fuck the bitcoins.

Bitcoin = Digital = eventually eveyrone is going to be running around with a chip shoved up their ass.

USD's are Digital

Euros are Digital

They are all the same crap, who cares who prints them? If the central banks mandated that they were only going to print a fixed amount of currency then you pretty much are already using "bitcoins".


Gold/Silver backed certificates with strict regulation and checks and balances is the only way to go.

If you cant hold it in your hand, it doesn't belong to you, if you cant hold it in your hand you are a SLAVE.

Stack your coins and SAVE and INVEST thats the way the economy used to run, now its just a speculative casino where we dont produce anything and we just move money around for no reason, thats what FIAT like Bitcoin  FRNS and EUROS have brought us... a NON-PRODUCTIVE GAMBLING HOUSE.



People who want bitcoins, want a change in leadership (they want to change who is incharge of printing the money and where it goes after its printed).

By buying bitcoins, you are going from one slave master to another in the hopes that your new slave master wont betray you, the owners of bitcoin printing presses will just become modern-day translations of the victorian rothschilds and we will endup with an even more abusive monetary system.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:30 | 3506048 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

"By buying bitcoins, you are going from one slave master to another..." 

Clearly you have not done your due dilligence, given this comment.  A comment that adds "noise", rather than "value".  DYH (Do Your Homework)!  Please.

p.s. Notice that I did not down-arrow you.. because your first part was correct, IMO.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:54 | 3506122 Silver Bully
Silver Bully's picture

'Clearly you have not done your due dilligence, given this comment.'

Actually, he clearly has.

Money, REAL MONEY, does two things:

1. stores value

2. is a currency (i.e. exchanged for goods and services)

Honest money does both.

And the public at large has to maintain confidence in it, or it will be abandoned. Bitcoin's proponents have spent an incredible amount of time pushing it as a currency (look, it can be exchanged for STUFF!) so people can have confidence in it.

But they have completely ignored item #1. Bitcoin is a HORRIBLE store of value. It is worse than the American dollar, or any other fiat form of CURRENCY, because its value fluctuates in a way that makes silver futures look benign.

But fine. Use it as a currency. Just don't sit here and tell us it is the second coming of gold when it's 'value' has only started to be measured since 2009.

You have to be an absolute loon to think anyone should to store their money in something that's existed for less than 5 years, is stored in a computer, and is completely digital in an age where the central banks control EVERYTHING financial.


Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:42 | 3506247 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

And clearly, sir, you and your friends do not understand real money either, and are simply repeating what you've heard or read.  If you think it through, you will find that...

Money is a "Medium", not a "Store".  It is a medium of exchange -- in a transaction of economic values (Quid Pro Quo / This For That).  It is not the  "Container" of these economic values.  Unless you live in a universe with different laws of physics, "money" (fake or real, cyber or paper, silver or gold) cannot "store/contain" the things (goods and services) being exchanged.  No matter what some "author" or "school of thought" claims.

Having said that...

The two things that PM (gold, silver, platinum) does as "money", is that (1) its supply is constrained by nature & mining, and (2) It has some nice physical and chemical properties.  It makes for a very convenient durable and limited financial medium.  It's pretty, it's malleable and it's durable -- which I like and own in all three PM forms.  For the same reasons other rare and special natural minerals (gems, diamonds) also serve as 'money'.  They are used as parallel, but less popular and less affordable forms (of a durable financial medium).

So... As a way out, I will suggest that those who use the term "Store of value", are sloppy with their word choice.  The more accurate term would be "Durable medium".

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 02:31 | 3507044 Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

There is a fourth monetary metal: palladium.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:48 | 3506307 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

One penny to 130 dollars is not a "fluctuation", it's a bull market.

The Bitcoin Channel

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 19:48 | 3506500 Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

That just makes total fing sense to me? Money is a medium and a store, if not an investment?

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 01:06 | 3506997 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

Exactly, everyone is running around like a chicken without a head looking for somethign to "replace the dollar" and "act like gold" / give you the "freedom" that gold gives you.... but they all refuse to "just use what works..... GOLD", stop making up MORE VOLATILE FIAT CURRENCIES THAT HAVE NO VALUE AND JUST START USING THE STUFF THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO FAKE!

Everyone is trying to make a "fake gold" thats "just as good as gold" , its a fools erand, JUST USE THE GOLD AND GET OVER IT! 


Sun, 04/28/2013 - 02:34 | 3507045 Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

I'll wire you some gold if you show me how to do it.



Sun, 04/28/2013 - 09:37 | 3507302 awakening
awakening's picture

Making wire from gold/silver metal:

While I did interpret your post correctly initially (wire = electronic transaction of currency); I felt like posting the above to demonstrate the alternative interpretation of your post (regardless how much I would like to receive some of that in the mail) :)

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 22:04 | 3508813 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

If a system is setup in place where banks were forced to print 1 to 1 certificates to gold, then simply wiring electronic certificates to a bank (each certificate has a serial code matching an denomination of gold stamped with the same code) would be possible.

The problem with FRN'S is that each FRN in circulation does not have an individual serial code (the paper ones do) but 98% of the FRNS in circulation (digital) have no such serial code, and are thus un-traceable... so a bank can fake as many of them as they want.

Each penny should have a series of codes.

And each penny should be backed by something like 1/100th of an oz of gold/silver.


Bitcoins? no one is even spending them, people are just buying them speculatively in the hopes that it will "hit off" like a service (like paypal or something).


Theres no difference between the bank account you have now and bitcoin.

Load up your bit-coin balance page


Load up your Bank of america/ Chase / Citi banks w/e banks online balance page


Put the two windows side by side, 


What is the difference? both balances are electronic bits on a screen, they are indiscernible 

Bitcoin could simply print more at anytime despite any inflation mandates or limits (limits can be changed/voted on) or worst fraud could happen and they could simply issue more without telling anyone and laugh all the way to the bank with your FRN CREDITS which still hold "some value".


If it came between the USD or Bitcoin, I actually have more faith in the USD because the other currencies are going to collapse faster than the FRN and we have hired the best con-artist global macro economists "money can buy" , and they don't want to see their paychecks evaporate ;) 

How much gold can Benburnbanke have? and how does he plan to keep it safe when everyone gets pissed off at him?


These rich people intend to stay rich and they are all holding assets denominated in FRN'S not gold not bitcoins.


Silver and Gold are a "last resort currency" loss in faith of the FRN will also cause a long term loss in faith in ALL FIAT.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:22 | 3506221 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

This comment is noise too. You verbally junk him and then provide no case to back up your junking. Dred is correct in a digital currency will be suffered to whatever massa picks up the switch to beat humanity with. If it is not tangible, then it is easily corruptible. PMs have suffered corruption as of late, but the physical demand has shown the farce for what it is. Bitcoin dos not have this capability.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 23:47 | 3506528 wintermute
wintermute's picture

Why don't you do some basic research?

The whole point about crypto-currency is that transactions are encrypted so that they are incorruptible. Every greedy spammer and hacker has tried and failed to break the Bitcoin system after more than 4 years of trying. This is a system which has been tested by fire!

Bitcoin has come through those tests and will grow and eventually reduce PMs to mere industrial commodities only.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:41 | 3506089 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Then don't use Bitcoins.  Nobody is forcing you to buy them.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:04 | 3506162 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

If I buy physical Silver, I am guaranteed when the Ponzi falls, I will make out like a bandit. 

If I buy Bitcoins, who the hell knows what happens when the Ponzi falls. 


Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:56 | 3506318 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

My allocation is 90% silver, 5% gold, 4% cash, and 1% bitcoin.  I sleep faily well.


Silver For The People

The Bitcoin Channel

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:04 | 3506338 walküre
walküre's picture

what's wrong with cash?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:41 | 3506413 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

You own a lot of silver?  Sorry for your recent losses...  I'm up 1000% since I bought into Bitcoin.

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 01:08 | 3507002 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

Yes because when bit-coin went from 200 to 50 "USD'S" you did not suffer a temporrary "loss"

its not even a "loss" when the price of silver goes down IMO its an opportunity to buy more, no matter what you still have the same weight in gold/silver.


Silver and gold are going to rebound now as supply dries up rapidly... the dow and gold/silver will swap places soon.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:28 | 3506387 defencev
defencev's picture

Actually, it is not true. There is a permanent propaganda to lure people in this filthy shitty Ponzi scheme. As in any pyramid scheme, the more people participate in this "fool gold game" the more profit will go to the pockets of originators. It all will end up in tears for those fools who will decide to join . And what is amazing it is just nothing the people are lured into.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:45 | 3506091 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

Bitcoin can and will be attacked by several people/groups with many different goals, like undermining governments. The only possibility of succes of bitcoin is a controlled internet from a to z....

When that happens, we will see severe shortages in physical bitcoins.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:49 | 3506110 Croesus
Croesus's picture


Bet It Tanks. Currency-Online Is No Solution.

The only solution, is "Money outside of the system, that you can hold in your hand". PM's do not need electricity to work. When BTC conquers that hurdle, I'll have a little more faith.

Til then, it's Gold or nothing.






Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:01 | 3506152 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

If you are in a system without electricity it is Mad Max anyway and your gold will not help.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:15 | 3506200 Croesus
Croesus's picture

I didn't say anything about "Mad Max", only that PM's do not NEED electricity to work.

I give the Bitcoin crowd props for their fervent defense of the "little cryptocurrency that could"; but none of the rhetoric is going to change my mind about it.


Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:08 | 3506347 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

While PMs may not 'need electricity to work', if society is without electricity PMs will be way behind food, water, anti-biotics and bullets in priority.

Your claim undermines your own position as much as it does bitcoins, though you seem to refuse to accept it.

But electricity is  not going to disappear globally. If it is unavailable locally, take the ewallet you had backed up on a CD and go where there is electricity. Problem solved as far as accessing your cash goes.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:26 | 3506383 Confused
Confused's picture

I'm going to guess that the electricity comment is just simply pointing out, that if bitcoin were to really become an alternate currency, TPTB would (please forgive me) just pull the plug on it.

While it is interesting, it seems to be vulnerable to the iron heel of the state.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 19:22 | 3506470 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

Yeah, my suspicions are similar to yours but...

1) this is no different than gold/silver/etc as history shows us governments can confiscate/outlaw PMs.

2) Friends I have in the hacker world say that there is no way to pull the plug on this emoney stuff. I have discussed thhis topic with them for a couple of years now and I finally came to agree with them. It is just too decentralized and used globally for a handful of governments to tackle this thing. Even if all countries joined in, the criminal groups would sustain it as defying the law is a talent and profession of theirs.

So, in short, my brain says this is for real, while my heart says dont be among the first to dive head first into the lake shore.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 20:10 | 3506545 wintermute
wintermute's picture

I've spent 30 years in IT writing financial systems and I KNOW that Bitcoin is a solid system. Further, it would have been busted wide open within its first year if there was any significant flaw, yet today they are worth $100+ each, up 100,000 times in value since first traded! And still the system is ticking over smoothly.

When the first cell-phone was invented, the first digital music track, the first web-page, most people dismissed them and clung to their landlines, vinyl records and newspapers. A few poeple could see the potential of these inventions and got involved early.


Sun, 04/28/2013 - 02:40 | 3507046 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

10 years at the top level of one of the biggest names in IT, and I concur. It's solid.

People don't get what it is: it's not the credit card system, it's more like the ACH/banking system. So what if transactions take 10 minutes to confirm, that's about 100 times better than the bank wire system already, and it's free. Off-block transaction systems are emerging that clear payments in seconds on Android. And have you sent money cross-border recently? Oh oh, the "fee" is only $30, but the currency spread is so wide you can drive a truck through it. And if you're in LatAm or Africa or most of Asia, the total fees are enormous, like 6-8%.

While we're at it maybe the ZH non-technorati want to consider this: when you send an email, it just works (unless you have the address wrong , duh). It works and it's completely free. That's because the W3C (consortium that agrees global web standards) made sure there's a protocol called mailto/ that makes it so. Well Bitcoin just got certified for the payments equivalent, called payto/. So paying for something will be as easy as clicking an icon in the browser. No bank acct required.

I'm not saying this is gonna be easy, it's not. Look at JP Morgan's last earnings release, they lost money on absolutely everything except one thing: card services, where they made $600M. These bastards are gonna do everything they can and they're not gonna play fair, they NEVER do. But WE are on the other side of that battle. Like Lord Acton said "eventually it will come down to the People versus the Banks. Now's your chance, which side are you on?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 22:19 | 3506805 Rossalgondamer
Rossalgondamer's picture

I suppose your statement has history on your side ~ ok bitcoin it is then.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:51 | 3506111 PUD
PUD's picture

Rubbish. Your "precious' is every bit a faith based system. Tell me...if you made all the gold on earth into coins that you could redeem all the paper for on demand, how many coins do you think that would be?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:01 | 3506145 Silver Bully
Silver Bully's picture

'Your "precious' is every bit a faith based system.'

ALL money is based on faith and confidence. The reason people have historically trusted in gold is because they KNOW a government cannot up and create it out of thin air, and debase it overnight. A digital currency, by definition, is created out of thin air. The only reason bitcoin is even considered money is how bitcoins are 'generated'. The main problem with this is how much you trust that said system cannot be hacked, circumvented, manipulated, or shut down.

In a world where the majority of people, despite the advances in cloud computing and memory storage, lose the majority oif their information the moment they switch to a new pc . . . you really want to trust this over a 5,000 year old, tried and true, reliable, independent system?

You already have the perfect money. Why would you want to exchange it for a digital daydream?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:58 | 3506330 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Let's have a contest.  Which would take longer, my finding and stealing your gold or you cracking my 256 bit encrypted password?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:13 | 3506357 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

Did you know that alluminum was once a precious metal? It isnt any more.

Guess why? Technology came along and made it possible to mass produce it.

Read up on nanotechnology, Widom-Larson element transformations, and the likelihood of many asteroids having gold, not to mention planets.

Gold is valuable because it is rare NOW, HERE.

All it takes is one bonanza discovery like a 20 mile radius gold nuget floating in space and previously known only as 2025 Europa.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:27 | 3506212 Croesus
Croesus's picture

Re-posting this:


There once was a troll named Pud,

Whose game was slingin' the mud.

He'd troll a gold thread, wishing us dead,

Since we didn't buy into his crud.


Yes, PUD: I own Gold. I am the Satan-incarnate, and I'm fucking proud of it. I DELIBERATELY force kids and old people to work in mines, and contract all kinds of neurological disorders, so that I may have MOAR PRECIOUS!

Every year, I dump the waste from the mine's cyanide leeching processes in marshlands, and wildlife sanctuaries. Oh, by the way, the oil spill in the Gulf? That wasn't about oil. That was ME, looking for MOAR Precious. I thought if I drilled down far enough, I'd have an underwater Gold Geyser. 

The wars in the Mideast? That's just me, seeking the precious. De-forestation? Well shit man, the only way to know if there's any Gold inside those trees is to cut them down.

And I'll keep doing it. Bwahahahahahahaha.




Sat, 04/27/2013 - 19:16 | 3506464 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

Lol, Croesus, I dont think Pud hates goldbugs, he just doesnt want to feel compelled to polish anything other than his usual  norm.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 19:58 | 3506526 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

Gold/Silver backed certificates with strict regulation and checks and balances is the only way to go.


You really are a slow learner aren't you.  Perhaps you're not paying attention to what the word "regulation" means today.  Or maybe you've never noticed how in every "law" there is at least one loophole for TPTB to justify breaking it.

What's really funny, is bitcoin doesn't require any regulation, it's built into they system away from meddling politicians or money changers. 

All the negativity around bitcoin is good, discourse works out the truth.  And, by judging what I've seen here of anti-BTC, I'd say it has a bright future.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:13 | 3505993 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

Lol bitcoin is so cheap and useful for merchants? Can you imagine the costs of pricing in a currency that can lose half it's value overnight, it's Weimar time baby. Bitcoin is not bought for its usage, it's bought by people thinking it will become worth more, speculatively.

These articles are really starting to be lame. I have to "invest" in bitcoin or else I'm not a good libertarian lol?

Buying bitcoin is like buying collectible trading cards. Yes if it becomes super collectible you will be billionaires. But the thing about future collectibles is that they are generally not created in fungible millions and pushed by shills.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:58 | 3506135 Simplifiedfrisbee
Simplifiedfrisbee's picture

No one can deny truthfully what was stated. Bitcoin is a pretense to a regulated digital form of currency. BC will never be a "free mans" escape from the tentacles of the imbecile hierarchy. It is becoming more fond in the eyes of the squid.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:02 | 3506151 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

Stuff priced in silver lost 30% overnight. What is your point? Judge a currency by its most volatile and pivotal moments?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:22 | 3506227 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

LOL we shouldn't judge a currency by its most volatile moments? If you are a merchant in the real world, you must. The point is, to become established enough for its value to be stable and not penny stock, to become currency, bitcoin needs to be accepted by most merchants. But most merchants won't accept for payment something that will lose half its value overnight.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:33 | 3506248 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

'The point is, to become established enough for its value to be stable and not penny stock'


Well there are lots of things accepted by most merchants that are not worth a penny stock - the USD for example, or GBP or EUR.

Bitcoin does not need to be more stable than 5% change per hour to be a useful transaction system.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:10 | 3506349 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

"Bitcoin does not need to be more stable than 5% change per hour to be a useful transaction system."

5% per hour? So it can lose 91% of its value in 48 hours, and still be a useful transaction system? Bullshit, lol.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:34 | 3506396 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

Fucking grow up.

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 09:53 | 3507324 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

After that comment, you lost the arguement.

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 10:13 | 3507358 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

There was never any argument.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:14 | 3505995 Lmo Mutton
Lmo Mutton's picture

Fine then, they have Bitcoins,

But do they have hot chicks?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:33 | 3506393 Confused
Confused's picture

You have never been?


And yes.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:19 | 3506007 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

      Wake me up when private ATM operators allow German citizenry to deposit euros in exchange for Shitcoins. Shitcoin currency symbol (8) inverted infinity.


Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:24 | 3506033 css1971
css1971's picture

Why would you need an ATM? You have a smartphone.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:44 | 3506085 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

      When was the last time you walked into a bar and purchased your drinks with a smart phone?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:02 | 3506160 css1971
css1971's picture

In a couple of years. 5 years tops.

They're building NFC into pretty much all new smartphones today. The McDonalds at my local train station has just installed terminals which support NFC.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:55 | 3506321 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

     Here's a couple links about NFC for posters that are new to the technology.

What You Need to Know About NFC - Lauren Goode - Product Reviews - AllThingsD

What is NFC and why is it in your phone? | News | TechRadar

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 20:11 | 3506543 akak
akak's picture

"Oh please, PLEASE come steal all of my personal data and my identity too!"

Trendsucking consumerist sheep are just so fucking dumb, they deserve the Orwellian world they are building for themselves.
Too bad they are dragging my ass along for the ride.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:17 | 3506207 oddjob
oddjob's picture

You have a smartphone.

I do?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 20:06 | 3506539 akak
akak's picture

I have never owned a government tracking device, er, cellular phone, nor do I have any plans of ever doing so.

And I use cash for basically ALL of my financial transactions, even including utility bills.  Even if it may on occasion be a bit more inconvenient, I want the bastards to HAVE to deal with cash, if only to help keep the option open to EVERYONE else.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:17 | 3506011 ledzep213
ledzep213's picture

I operate, the only place that has sold bitcoins via credit card consistently for the past year. Majority of customers are in Germany, France, and Italy. Not sure if it's marketing or if that is just where they want bitcoin the most.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:22 | 3506027 The Dancer
The Dancer's picture

Those that fondle their stacks won't readily embrace anything that challenges their paradigm.

And those that have no present life to speak of will grasp for the new. I do neither.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:25 | 3506035 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

bitcoin is backed by the same thing as fedres clownbux. that is to say, nothing

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:38 | 3506079 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

What's gold backed by?

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:46 | 3506104 PUD
PUD's picture

Hope delusion and fantasy. Bitcoins time has come. I own em and am buying them.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:58 | 3506144 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

You know PUD they take energy to mine, and children die of cancer digging up the rare earths needed to make the mining computers.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 21:45 | 3506710 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The sound of silence everyone is noticing was PUDS morality being vaporized...or was it digitized? ;-)

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 02:15 | 3507035 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Bloomberg accidentally grows a conscience, says Gaia weeps over Pud's betrayal.  The 30k households worth of juice going to bitcoin mining is an "environmental disaster":

Meanwhile, the fiat system encourages spending trillions on wars and pointless consumerism.  Even the environmental damage from all gold mining in history is surely far outweighed by the environmental benefits from gold constraining the fiat Beast even slightly.

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 08:18 | 3507207 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"The 30k households worth of juice going to bitcoin mining is an "environmental disaster"

They must have finally gotten a clue while reading through the ZH comment threads...LOL!!!

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:53 | 3506115 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

The ladies love it.  You can turn it into a ring, necklace, earrings or bracelet for them.  Or some nice gold teeth for yourself. 


Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:57 | 3506130 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Easy answer:  BitchCoin.  You become their bitch, when you use FRNs.  Each day, every day. 

FRNs and its growth are backed by force, not consent. 

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:09 | 3506174 Silver Bully
Silver Bully's picture

'What's gold backed by?'

Trick question. It is backed by itself.

Go try to double the amount of gold in the world with a button click, a printing press, or an algorithm. The Fed can do that to the U.S. dollar with a printing press. Or a computer.

Unless a 500 million ounce meteor crashes on earth tomorrow, you aren't going to change gold's value much. THIS is why people trust gold.

Bitcoin has been around less than 5 years. How well do you think it can survive over the course of the next 20 years before being brute force hacked, compromised, wiped out by an EMP blast, etc, etc?

How about 50 years?


1,000 years?

You've got a long way to go to beat gold at 5,000 years. Just sayin'.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 18:45 | 3506417 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Gold hasn't been money for 5000 years.  It was defeated by governments, in case you hadn't noticed.

Bitcoin solves the problems gold has as a money - it's easier to verify it isn't counterfeit, easier to store and protect, it's possible to send across the world instantly, etc.

And it's impossible for any CPU to brute force a Bitcoin password, even one the size of the Sun that's running at 100% efficiency for 10 billion years non-stop.

Do some research before you opine on Bitcoin.

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 04:28 | 3506659 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

BitCoin is also backed by itself.  Commodity backing is not necessary as long as the money is hard to steal, manipulate or print.  Paper money sucks because it fails on these counts.  BitCoin is more like gold than paper in these ways.

Each currency has its niche, and it is hard to know where things are going, so why not own a few BTC just in case?  You can't stuff gold through a T1 line or sneak large amounts past the TSA.  Gold's history certainly counts for something but it does not make it the only game in town.  Even gold was new once. 

Cut to the late stone age, around the Fight Club fire...

Grogg:  Me find big gold!  Oog, look, shinyyyy!  Very hard find!  Trade for zebra leg!  [offers huge nugget to Oog]

Oog: [bites nugget]  Oog no eat gold.  No use.  Only barter one useable item for other.   This work 5,000 years.  All other trade end bad.  Gold not money.  Gold depend on Sun and fire for shiny.  You think fool Oog?  [hurls nugget at Grogg, knocking him out]

Geek:  Gold dense, fly far, hit hard.  Gold malleable, make sphere, fly same every time.  Gold shiny, easy find it again.  If lose it, was only gold!  Gold perfect sling ammo!   Me make sling for gold, get meat, trade meat for sasquatch pussy!

Zog:  [picks up gold] Ooooh, shinyyyyy!  Me make drawing of gold and give to Geek for sling, give sling and gold to Thugg so he kill Oog and take zebra leg for me, make meat-backed security (MBS) by day when everyone watches, mix rotten hippo into MBS at night, sell MBS for gold, give drawing of gold to sniffer who stamp MBS 'AAA fresh', give drawing of gold to witch doctor so he say vulture vomit still count as meat, mix vulture vomit into MBS, sell MBS for more gold, mix hyena shit into MBS, sell for more gold, everyone eat MBS and die, Zog rule world and also have all gold for no work!

Pud:  Gold evil.  Gold make kids turn rocks all day in stream.  Waste of youth.  Rot minds.  No hunt.  No gather.  But hunting evil; hurt animals.  Gathering evil; hurt plants.  Better eat turds.  Maybe Zog shit good for kids.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 22:25 | 3506818 Rossalgondamer
Rossalgondamer's picture

Simply the cost of filtering it out of the ancient Persian Gulf.


Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:56 | 3506039 NuYawkFrankie
NuYawkFrankie's picture

Ich bin ein Berliner....  und Bitcoiner...

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:26 | 3506040 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

This Monty Python clip totally reminds me of some of the Bitcoin (an other) Arguments.  Enjoy.


Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:28 | 3506049 Martin Silenus
Martin Silenus's picture

Every time I read an article on Bitcoin, Neal Stephenson's 1999 novel "Cryptonomicon" comes to mind.  Cryptography, gold-backed digital currency, and Cap'n Crunch: what a great fucking book.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:28 | 3506050 balz
balz's picture

Bitcoin is still thin air. No electricity, no electronics, no cheap oil, no bitcoin. Anyone putting any money in this must understand that at some point in the future he will lose everything.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:46 | 3506103 Debugas
Debugas's picture

bitcoin is not meant to store your savings. It is mean to facilitate and anonymize online transactions

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:29 | 3506239 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

But its not used for that, by and large. Do you think the Twinklevoss Twins bought their bitcoin so they could score drugs on Silk Road? Currently its main use is speculative.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:33 | 3506058 DeliciousSteak
DeliciousSteak's picture

European progressives... Leading the charge to a brave new world... This always ends badly. ALWAYS.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:35 | 3506065 Lmo Mutton
Lmo Mutton's picture

"Bitcoins are subdividable to 8 decimal places."

Sooooooo, that's how they are going to scam everybody.


AAAAaaaaaaand its gone.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 17:08 | 3506173 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Horse kicked ya pretty hard, did he?

What's the scam?  If Bitcoin = $100 then .01 Bitcoin = $1, etc., to 8 dec. places.

I'm old school and not really sure where it's going, but for those that freely choose it, why not?

Sun, 04/28/2013 - 00:59 | 3506987 putaipan
putaipan's picture

1$ satoshi's bitches!


...full disclosure, i only have one neusmatic cacassion (spelling errors intact) and - i ain't spendin'!

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:44 | 3506087 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Whereas most ppl objecting to BTC (the leading but not only crypto-currency) on philosophical and cyber-technical grounds, my concern is economic:

If the price of BTC changes (up or down) too fast, then how the heck are merchants and customers achieve price stability?  Although I dpn't doubt its long-term success and long-term growth curve, the short-term growth seems like a series of mini-bubbles. 

It thus make me reluctant to hold any amount greater than what I need for immediate use as currency.  Economically, it feels a bit like 'virtual' particle in physics, where they pop in and out of existence but don't remain 'real' like proton, neutrons or electrons.  If I had to or chose to get more BTC than I need for immediate use, I'd wait and... BTFD.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:59 | 3506137 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

Create a 2 hour window of payment. Prices generally dont change more than 5% in 2 hours, it is not that volatile. There have also been suggestions of FX options with a third party.

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 22:05 | 3506256 Haole
Haole's picture

"If the price of BTC changes (up or down) too fast, then how the heck are merchants and customers achieve price stability?"

"Create a 2 hour window of payment. Prices generally dont change more than 5% in 2 hours, it is not that volatile."


BitPay immediately converts a Bitcoin payment into the vendor's chosen currency and deposits it into the vendor's account virtually instantaneously as though Bitcoin had never been used at all.  For a small fee of course.  The "window of payment" can be calculated in seconds.  Not minutes, not hours.  Risk of significant exchange rate fluctuations while waiting to get paid is almost non-existant.


Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:44 | 3506098 Debugas
Debugas's picture

Canada is gonna tax bitcoin transactions

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:51 | 3506120 Croesus
Croesus's picture

@ Debugas:

You're right:

In one of my first BTC posts, I mentioned my thoughts that it would only be a matter of time until it was taxed. DotGov demands its pound of flesh.....

Sat, 04/27/2013 - 16:59 | 3506148 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

2 things:

1. How are they gonna do this?  Especially when it's peer-to-peer, via anonymous and encrypted cyber transactions.

2. This would be a defacto admission by TPTB that BTC = Money

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