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One Month Later: What Cyprus Thinks In The Aftermath Of Its Bank Sector Collapse?
Curious what the Cypriot people think just over a month after the most dramatic European banking sector collapse in years, and subsequent first bank sector bail-in and depositor impairment ever? Courtesy of Bloomberg, which summarizes a poll conducted via Symmetron and posted in Kathimerini Cyprus we now have an idea of what the still stunned Cypriot population thinks.
The Cyprus financial crisis is fault of country’s political, economic and social systems, not foreign institutions such as troika, according to 84% of Cypriots in poll by Symmetron published today in Kathimerini Cyprus. Poll also showed:
- Of 800 people questioned, 68% said bankers were most responsible for crisis, 63% said politicians next most to blame, 48% said central bank
- 79% said previous President Demetris Christofias and his govt is more to blame vs 13% for current administration led by President Nicos Anastasiades
- 54% said it was mistake for parliament to vote against 1st loan deal
- 68% said they don’t have enough money to meet direct needs, pay financial obligations
- 70% said personal economic situation to worsen over next 12 months
- 92% no longer trust central bank
- 66% said current govt actions to confront crisis not enough
- 64% against exit from euro area
- 73% said faithful implementation of loan agreement won’t lead country out of crisis
- Symmetron conducted poll April 22-26; margin of error +/-3.5 percentage points
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How many are pissed off enough to go to arms?
Not bad enough yet.
64% against exit from euro area
92% no longer trust central bank.
Fuck you Bernanke.
Beryanks is feeling alright, krugman whispers in his ear every night that after another 8% things can only get better.
And 99% of them will still vote for the politician that promises them the most "free stuff".
"Thank you, Sir. May I have another?"
This has emboldened the kleptocrats and if "nothing" happens to those responsible, it will continue until "something" does.
btw: 100% of the Russian mafia approve of them keeping the off-shore branches open so they could get out whole.
Cypriots: Must be painful to be this stupid....
Just like the sheeple of Boston who stuck their ass up in the air for the illegal searches, then applauded the "occupiers"/enablers and incompetents who allowed the terrorist attack to happen in the first place.
God help us all.
I've got some bad news for you...
God hasn't been taking calls for around 2,000 years and counting.
Cypridiots.
Is Boris is to writing this article?
who are the 8% that trust the CB?
FUB
That would be the 8% that didn't have any accounts with the central bank.
Dark_Horse
It's the 8% who Twitter and don't know what the fuck a Central Bank is.
"64% against exit from euro area"
That says it all. Nothing learned. Nothing gained. Everything lost.
precisely
You know there is a way you can stay in the Euro and still resolve this situation without plunging your country into an instant depression..... just default. That's it, we're done, we ain't paying you what we promised so suck it up, ECB!
There is no mechanism for being "thrown out" of the EU so just tell them to get stuffed. Who is the ECB that they are the only entity on the continent that is never allowed to lose on a transaction? If they are never allowed to take a loss on a loan, what fucking use are they anyway? Theirs is the only capital never allowed to be impinged upon?
Sure they'll bitch and moan for a few years but once your economy is back on it's feel you just WATCH how fast they start taking your calls again.
They can't default and stay in. That would destroy all the other Euro countries/banks in a daisy chain implosion.
Their choices are:
1) Stay in and be ass-raped and made peons for eternity to the Arian horde
2) Leave. Take a punch to the guts, the people blame the politicians who are in power and they begin t work their way out of the hole.
Obviously the only choice then is 1 as the politicians are all about remaining in power.
"They have learned nothing and forgotten nothing."
Talleyrand
800 people AND we accept a poll by a MSM outlet?
Yes, perhaps they do have these opinions, even in these numbers. Would any other country do better? Did Ireland rise up? Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece? Europe gladly defends its' fascism as does America- WE REVEL IN IT.
We read the reports on CFR, Trilateral Commision, Tavistock, Aspen Institute, Club of Rome, Bilderbergers and so many others, then defend our States at the first call to arms or patriotism.
The forces arrayed against the People are dark, organized, intelligent and wealthy. They wield power as if molded to their hands, because it has been for thousands of years.
Most of us here are the small minority of spirits that are intelligent enough to question, but have no access to the tools of power and tyranny. In our frustration with the general public, we strike out with insults and condemnation, just as so many others before us.
The answer lies in the elimination of law and the decentralization of the State. If we here, so intelligent and educated, can find the means to convince the great masses, both entitled and middle class, perhaps then, we will have something to celebrate. People must be made aware of the heavy chains that bind them, can you open their eyes?
Government manipulates the moral spheres: harm, fairness, loyalty, authority, sanctity, and liberty, to achieve their ends. This motivates people to support things or do things that are often not in their best interests.
To attempt to counter these manipulations means you will start after their implementation and always try to play catch-up. A seemingly endless variation of them will then ensue. Iraq is a perfect example: a series of effective lies that had to be painstakingly knocked back, and in the meantime, the attack was underway.
To counter this means anticipating and countering their manipulations before they use them, preferably by someone of high authority.
The only logical conclusion you can come to as to why "Freedom" / "Libertarianism" isn't the runaway leading "ism" of choice among the masses is that freedom is not what they seek. What they seek is to be told what to do. This creates a problem given one of the fundamentals of being a good Libertarian is not imposing your self or your beliefs on others. If We were prepared to spend our lives seeking to influence and lead the wandering masses we might have a fighting chance ... of course that would not be proper freedom just a "period of time during which some good guys were in charge"
Growing into a free thinking, self sufficient and independent person takes a good 20 of your formative years .. it is not something everyone can just wake up and switch over to. They are fucked for life and will not change. The children growing up in the "aftermath" of what ever ends up bringing the house down will be where the long term results are to be had IMO
At some point you face the fact that most people actually prefer their soft, comfortable slavery to the alternative of taking responsibility for themselves. Born of slaves, as slaves, eternally seeking leadership.
It is a conundrum and I appreciate your response.
You have identified two important situations: one. the masses prefer slavery to responsibility and two, the moment for change will be when the system fails. The former implies a change in mindset that would prefer liberty over control and the latter a means of inducing great change.
While the masses may prefer their slavery, I doubt any of them perceive it as such. Westerners love to talk about their "freedoms". They send their children to war to protect them. They are protective about their institutions and the Constitution. Therefore, somehow the people must be made aware of their caste. This easily falls within the scope of responsible self government for libertarians and other liberty minded people. Persuasion is not "telling people what to do". If done from a sense of social responsibility, it is truly leadership.
As for change, where are the leaders who could step in to fill the void? In the event of a financial and societal collapse, many here especially, are planning on defending the homestead. However, the reins of leadership require risk and responsibilty for the greater whole. You cannot have liberty without action. Action that results in social forms that protect and encourage liberty. Someone must be willing to stand against the psychopaths that exist in every city, state and country. Libertarianism must be practical if it is to be useful. We cannot hide behind a facade of individual liberty if it results in no liberty at all, yes?
Consequently, if we really desire freedom, we must have a leadership that is willing to persuade, teach, cajol and sacrifice for the improvement of the greater society and in the end, isn't that what responsible leadership is all about? The guardians of liberty must be ever vigilant and in doing so, they must be willing to give of themselves in ways that diminish their own liberty. There is little personal reward in this, beyond the knowledge that what you are doing is good. Whereas, their is great personal reward in doing evil.
It is the eternal question of choice: doing good and being rewarded by posterity or doing evil and being rewarded in the here and now. This goes to the very essence of what kind of humans we want to be. History has not been a favorable guide. Death is a very real consequence of doing good. Still, can there ever be change without sacrifice? Perhaps this is why wisdom resides in those that have lived and whom can be tempted to give what little is left to those that have long lives ahead of them.
Exiting the euro leaves austerity as the solution because loan deals would evaporate.
People and central banks are both complicit in today's extend and pretend world and 64% is enough to make it policy - seems most everyone likes bubbles and I suspect this survey result will hold as other countries succumb to debt.
National choices are either the Icelandic option or the central bank/TBTF bank solution - most will stick with the banks, even knowing the beatings will continue.
At the personal level, own real things, plus enough reserves for your things to survive wealth and property taxes.
Is it an oxymoron to say that one "owns" real things that are taxed on a regular basis for eternity - even long after the value of the taxes exceeds the value of the real thing "owned"?
3,5% don't really trust these kind of statistics...
They get boned by unelected technocrats from the Eurozone and 64% are against leaving? Hopeless.
The only remaining explanation is that everyone, worldwide, has gone full retard.
Thank the Liberals running most of the education systems worldwide.
- Taught false 'history.'
- STEM is taught to the test.
- Appreciation of knowledge itself is never taught.
- Hard, useful skills are not taught.
- Mythology, comparative religion, and storytelling completely ignored. The only stories are those which come from TV, etc.
The list goes on much longer. Taking back education into our own fucking hands is the first step to really being free.
They're taught the gov't will look after you and give you "things."
Liberal education systems create dependent voters for life.
What's a corrupt politician who will say and promise anything for votes not to like?
In this and your previous post you appear to have mistakenly used the term "liberal" -- I believe the more contextually accurate term would be "statist".
It's just language, but it's really, really important language, and using it incorrectly is either careless or maliciously deceptive, but most certainly contributes to the continuation of a destructive paradigm.
As to who has been running the failed public education system (to use the US as a specific example)...
I think the term Liberal is far more appropriate than statist.
I prefer leftist. Liberal used to mean something great.
DIgnified
"Liberal used to mean something great."
Oh really... please expound on that... we'd love to hear it.
Liberal comes from french. In french, a liberal is what you would call a libertarian. That is the true definition of a liberal. A liberal as a leftist-statist-welfarist-socialist, as designed by the amerikan dictionnary, is an orwellian rape of the civilised language, a deception.
In Australia "Liberal Party" is the conservative party (equiv of Republicans) ... and they were the ones that took away our Guns ? (mine fell out of my boat while fishing)
"64% against exit from the Euro area." I find this to be amazing. To most of us on Zero Hedge, the problem with Europe is the Euro. Why can 't the majority of Cypriots see that?
It's all fine and well to tell other people to get out of the Euro without considering the consequences ... there is no way for a trade deficit Euro country to get out of the Euro without vast amounts of pain, the short term effects would be far far worse than their current situation.
The people who still have money in the bank would also be hit with forced conversion of those funds in a massive corralito type event, it's the only way the country can make the transition with a functioning economy. You could say "they deserve it" while you have a stash of gold bought in small quantities over the years buried somewhere ... I would disagree.
A vote for the Euro is a completely rational one in the short term, the bailouts might be mostly going directly back towards foreign creditors ... but it's still a bail out and a damn side better than nothing and a defacto trade blockade in the short term (by completely defaulting on Euro loans and ditching the Euro it's unlikely they could remain in the common market). Maybe once they get their economy back into a competetive shape they might consider leaving the Euro, but not now.
The corrupt, fraudulent, Anglo/American, central banking, Ponzi scheme is safe, the Serfs still don't get it.
Give the insolvent fools another loan they can't repay, from a make believe insolvent entity, backed by a bunch of other insolvent countries....aand all is well again.
Crazy!
J
64% are sheeple.
Apparently they want the beatings to continue until morale improves.
'How many are pissed off enough to go to arms?'
Here's your answer: '64% against exit from euro area'
are their still capital controls in place or were insured deposits allowed to be withdrawn?
Capital controls still in place but have been relaxed. Billions of euros still managing to leave the island this last month:
http://famagusta-gazette.com/dramatic-tumble-in-cyprus-bank-deposits-p19...
Thank's for the info. Best of luck to you.
Anyone know what happened to individual stock brokerage accounts in Cyprus?
Were they haircut like bank deposits, or left untouched (not being banks)?
This could an important precedent in future 'bail-ins' in other countries. That's why I'm asking.
If you owned stocks in any Cypriot company doing business in the country, you are already a loser or flat out busted.
The EuroZone ECB/Technocrats were not interested in the Cypriot bourse or stocks since they are just so much paper and they have quite enough of that! What they wanted and they went for, was the private wealth held in private accounts, by private citizens, who thought they private accounts were held sacrosanct.
So much for trusting ANY bank, ANY WHERE, with your private wealth. If you are not out by now, then you're fooling yourself and will be the next victim to shorn of your wealth. Get out, while the gettin is good!
Agreed. The scenario I'm interested in is that of a Cyprus-based individual brokerage account which held shares in other eurozone countries such as Germany and France.
Presumably the Cypriot authorities couldn't touch such accounts, because they first would have to seize shares (property, not cash) and then liquidate the shares for cash.
I've searched this topic but haven't come up with any specific news.
There are no Cyprus based brokerage accounts; Cyprus is a tiny insignificant place; brokerage in cyprus would be done in a local office of MAN, Germany, or some other large well capilized European brokerage and clearing house. No stock accounts will have been effected by the bank activities.
Bugs me when people misuse "their for there and then for than".
It bugs me when pedantic grammarians won't shut the fuck up, so red for you.
If you are trying to make a point, linguistic accuracy ALWAYS helps.
I notice you can't even spell 'lead'
Shut the fuck up.
Dumbass, its a reference to a band I am fond of and a double entendre.
Now go fuck yourself pedantic grammarian jackoff number two...
Coffee shops at the beach were packed today but a lot of stores have closed in just the last few weeks. Lots of people in denial here in sunny Cyprus.
What I find really bad is the People of Cyprus /Greece/Spain are not revolting. An "admitted" 25% unemployment in the US would be bringing down the house because you know the number would actually be a lot higher. Is the world waiting for the Americans to revolt first because we have guns? It will be way too late by then because we will be among the last to fall.
It's going to get worse, before it gets better.
"It's going to get worse, before it gets better" -> You know the NWO is next? The vaccinations stop due to crisis and all the newborns catch and die from their carrying siblings previously impregnated by government. Strange world if you ask me...
Hard to revote with that huge EU dick in your ass.
YES! We need you to take back your Gov so we can then get the arms to at least be a fighting chance.
Do you keep your money still in the bank?
Yes. In a small private family owned bank in a very stable European country; in the sub-basement. It was kind of dusty last time I looked at it; but that's alright.
I want to know who the 8% are who still trust central banks, and especially who are the 32% who don't think bankers are mostly to blame. What is the one group of people that didn't lose in all of this? That's all you need to know.
exactly what I want to know........how can they STILL be asleep??
You've gotta hand it to the banker propaganda machine.
This experiment tells you that most humans need masters. However fucked up that is, it is the truth.
Unfortunately, you hit the nail. How many Americans actually think Putin is a desirable leader because he's a tough guy? One is too many, but it's a pretty high percentage. Those who think for themselves and who do not want a "charismatic" leader directing their every move are in the small minority worldwide.
that one, "kill your heros" comes to mind.
Putin is one of the only world leaders not running his country off the cliff. That's a rare and desirable quality of leadership here in 2013.
It's not the people cheering for Putin that concern me (as I'm an American & not a Russian). It's the ones who cheer for the dictatorial regime of someone like M. Bloomberg in NYC. That is a great number of my fellow Americans. If he ever gets to be POTUS then we'll have our Stalin/Mao. But, if he does get it it is because "we" (the 64%) put him there. We can still out wit these TPTB, before they benevolently help us to death, but it is going to take some strenuous effort.
It's difficult to realize and harder to accept emotionally, but the simple truth is that between the Church and the Feudal Aristocracy, people/peasants have been bred into housepets -- much like we've bred dogs for desired traits. What do you expect after all these centuries?
Yupes - I've experimentally checked this with small groups more than once.
In the absence of direction, people who do not know each other well will follow the first one that in an assertive way tells others what they should do. It doesn't even need to be the right thing or a well thought thing: all it takes is that it's said in an assured and assertive way.
In fact the process is such that actually thinking about what to do and then making a reasoned argument about what should be done is counter productive: people will follow the first and biggest loudmouth not the long thinking and pondering leader.
Now look around at modern Democracies: with the notable exception of Switzerland, people don't have any personal contact or knowledge of those they elect, either directly or by knowing someone that knows someone. The end result is the sheep-like behaviour of electing and following the loudmouths.
they still don't get it ! Die stupid sheep
sounds to me like the CyPatriots are still groggy from the governmental hopium applied per prescription from the EU. and i don't think they know yet that they are ALL being migrated to their new beautiful island of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean.
Diego Garcia.......+1000.........LOL
Cyprus has lots of goats and so does Diego. Could be synergistic!
+1 Navy'
that's ba-a-a-a-a-a-a-ad
The Cypriot people are in for a lot more than they can imagine. The first round effects will in and of themselves bring one wave after another of further austerity, haircuts and economic downturn highlighted by unemployment.
The powder keg has only just been opened.
And yet more than half still want to stay in slavery (the euro) and ignore Iceland's success.
Iceland voted last night to finally pull the plug on the E.U. (fuck'em on the continent)
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/5c392d64-afbd-11e2-81a1-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2RhY1jAdZ
I also noted -- they saved the best for last. The last line of the article says " The result will give the Pirate party three MPs, the first time the international movement will enter a national parliament. "
The Pirate Party. Hehe.
Absolutely stay in the EU.
The world is always in need of more organ sales as the India/Pakistan source(s) are drying up.
The trouble with any "loan" to rescue nations from "financial crisis" (which are acts of humans, thinking or otherwise) including our own:
The "loans" only benefit the people who created the problems IF they remain in charge, or are controlled by those who make the loans. It never helps the country, or "the people".
How can 64% be against exiting the Euro.
Amazing.
people see the euro as a symbol of peace jist like the dollar is a symbol of power.
especially the older generation.
The basic flaw in all democracies.64% are unfit ,and too stupid to be allowed to vote.
The whole business community in Cyprus is now anti euro as they understand the
real problem.The sheep do not.
At one time businesses had a seperate vote in a lot of countries,maybe its time
for a return of that voting mandate.
double post
Makes you re-think the "White property owners" only having the vote by the U.S. Founding Fathers? Those guys saw this coming.
And the bottom 50% love entitelments, sell their vote, and build our debt. Our founding fathers had this 'voting themselves money from the public treasury' as their greatest fear. They were right.
The real business community (ie. mostly tourism) or all the bank employees who didn't steal enough money to retire on yet?
When the Federal government in the US ended voting tests in the South at gunpoint back in the 60's it opened the floodgates here, the downward spiral since was predictable. Once anything with a faint pulse could vote it became a question of when it all fails, not if.
I would love to see vigorous testing to allow voting here but it will not happen as long as the current governmental structure stands.
"64% against exit from euro area"
they deserve the worst of the worst. i hope to live to see the day this 64% starves to death.
>> i hope to live to see the day this 64% starves to death.
Wow, because they have an economic opinion different than yours? Fairly brutal. I hope for your kid's sake you don't have any.
You're right, that is a bit harsh.
92% distrust the ECB, but 64% want to stay in the Euro, so only 56% deserve to starve. Not because they have a different view, but because they have the same view (that the central bankers cannot be trusted) but want to stay within the same central banking system.
They are voting against change, while stating that they do not like the current system.
I dont think its right to wish such ill will on people who are basing their decision on ignorance and fear. This is different from those who are purposefully evil and malicious. I feel sorry for them because their future is bleak and they may experience the horrors of life being now experienced in Greece. The only people who deserve to starve are the ones who are behind all this and that is unlikely to ever happen.
Miffed:-)
Given the amount of information available today stupidity and ignorance are a choice as is fearfulness, I find it impossible to sympathize with anyone who chooses not to seek answers and information- they are as much a part of the problem as the people at the top.
Being dumb should hurt, and they will feel the pain they deserve.
I am not so sure about that. I search for many years for sound answers to the financial issues facing us today. Believe me there are a lot of wackos out there in all forms trying to sell you answers. I followed many economists, survivalists, intellectuals, politicians,and small business leaders. All it did was just add to the confusion. ZH was the first place I found that gave facts, graphs and indepth analysis. Instead of confusion I found anchoring. It's easy to just right people off as stupid just as a horse will run back into a burning barn. To the uninitiated this does seem like stupidity but in reality the barn is associated with safety so they blindly run to it. I guess in your view we should teach them a lesson by letting it burn down on top of them. I'm hoping there maybe hope saving a few. But it does take a lot of courage to enter a burning barn and drag a frightened horse to safety. And yes, some won't leave no matter what and, therefore, the only choice is to save yourself.
Miffed;-)
You are right of course ... we shouldn't write them off. However, it has been going on for a long time and we are at the "save yourself" moment of leaving that stubborn horse in the barn.
I have to agree that "they are just as much (if not more) to blame" You can loathe yet understand the motivation to control and manipulate others for your own gain. Lazy, detrmined ignorance is one of the root causes of the whole mess and needs to be eliminated for the next attempt to work any better.
According to the Spiegel everybody in Cyprus is richer than the Germans and they all have enough asset.
Apparently, Germans are the poorest people in Greater Germany.
We'll see in a year, once those Cypiot assets are re-priced. Your house is worth 800,000 euros, you say? In a year, if it is worth 200,000 that will be amazing.
Unless those Cypriots assets are gold bars and arable land, the value of those assets will likely be in for a big drop.
Very good point, but it's more than that. They are averaging assets, meaning a small percentage of very wealthy people skew the curve. Cyprus is not a large population so it's easy to play with the numbers. There is also a high concentration of wealth in Cyprus but it is not evenly spread out. The average guy [if you take out the 1 or 2% who have most of the wealth] is fucked, but what's new.
They also mention German Median of 50,000 euros and Cyrus median is 5 times that (250,000 euros) so it is not just average.
"54% said it was mistake for parliament to vote against 1st loan deal
64% against exit from euro area"
no need to comment - and way more balanced than what some press implied
Maybe those who took the survey are as biased as the U.S. news media? Stranger things have happened.
Using 800 people as a sample for, what, 5 million people, and only expecting a 3.5% margin of error?
Cherry pick the answers they wanted to report?
I'm wondering how similar the Latvian collapse was to Cyprus.
"hello, we're from your friendly euro group. How would you like us to collapse you today?" i hear they're hanging in there of course: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbzooE7jtiE
Now, I don't think of myself as a stupid guy, nor ill-informed, but when the hell did Latvia collapse?
92% don't trust the central bank, and 64% want to stay in the euro area. History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme. Stupid fucks.
64% obviously think they can still have their Flaounes and eat them.
retarded fools deserve the second reaming they'll get
Euro = gasoline
Did anyone expect weak-minded folks to all of a sudden become strong geniuses..not me...hey, cook, turn up the fire! These frogs are going to taste great!
Where is the "How many of you trust only Gold and Silver in your possession as real money?" question?
"100% said they wish they had converted everything they owned into gold and buried it in the backyard".
If Cyprus didnt bust the system you can beleive nothing will
I'm sure it did bust the system.
We are in th Wile E Coyote phase right now.
It will be the same here when the barber comes - So bad but the sheep will stay with what they know.
"79% said previous President Demetris Christofias and his govt is more to blame vs 13% for current administration led by President Nicos Anastasiades"
And there you have it - Blue & Red; Divide, C & C. :)
sure is........and in 6 months they will have it at 51% to 49%............Rinse and repeat !
64% think 'My life just isn't shit enough...'
Stupid is as stupid does.
Socialism is as socialism does.
When you have been on the gravy train for so long, is there anything else?
Molon Labe
92% no longer trust central bank
Got that right Dude.
April 28, 2013 7:15 pm
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2005ef0e-b020-11e2-8d07-00144feabdc0.html
What the Cyprus people think of the bailout is now irrelevant after they exchanged their freedom for the bailout and didn't hang the fuckers who are now raping them.
I agree with many others here...it's hard to understand why so many Cypriots still want to cling on to the failed euro currency when it most obviously hasn't worked. But, you know, similar levels of support existed in Greece for a long period after its economy crashed. Have these people not learned anything?
When the Cyprus "haircut" talk began, my friend commented that this will be the last straw, the Cypriots will overwhelmingly want to leave the Euro and that will be the beginning of the end for the currency. I told him "no". Why? Because it's obvious by looking at the rest of the Mediterranean that Europeans want the currency. They dislike the financial system, they dislike the banks, but they fucking love the Euro. It's like magic, it has enchanted the people of Europe. No one will leave the currency, unless they have to. Even if it creates poverty, as long as it doesn't outright collapse, it will survive.That is what the Mediterranean has taught us.
I can't wait till the EURO competes with Proctor and Gamble for the Toilet Paper market....they will win. They have endless supply and prettier colours....
They have cornered themselves with the results of that poll, they are exactly where the bankers want them.
Guess the tells you the value of a captive mainstream media.
You can make the people fear anything. Just like they say, security before freedom.
We're all doomed, these numbers will give the wrong people courage.
68% said they don’t have enough money to meet direct needs, pay financial obligations
Just a few weeks ago, zerohedge was showing a chart that the Cypriots were some of the 'richest' individuals in EU( even richer than Germans, Germans were actually on the bottom of the wealth distribution chart) and now we find out that 68% are broke!!!!!!
This is what happens when you believe the propaganda and lies at ZH. Has anything happened that ZH predicated? What? Has the dollar collapsed? Has Israel attacked Iran? What about Greece, EU, US Treas, Soros warning on AU was laughed at. How have all those predictions by PIMCO turned out? How about another know-nothing--Kyle Bass.?
Kruggers?
Is that you?
Gosh you are dumb. Yep, ZH reported it a few weeks ago, but did you bother to check the date of the data? You sound an awful lot like a paid internet troll. Who is paying you? Inquiring minds want to know.
The only thing that you find here are made up arguments about producers and takers(free shit army) and EBT that ZH claims is mostly used to buy lap dances: I am not making this up! Is this a publication that one can take seriously? There are many posts here but NONE that has anything to do with economics of importance: monetarism here is misleadingly advanced as Keynesianism.
In the real world the emphasis is on cost vs benefits. It's criminal logic that equates tax payments as theft without revealing the amount of income that tax is paid on. Even then all TAX PAYMENTS are pass-through costs collected from someone else. The other stupid argument advanced here is about job creators: job creators' salary is paid by sale of goods and services made by employees--the employee is the one that pays the owner a salary.
You make about as much sense as a stroke victim suffering from aphasia.
Plenty of sites I don't go to because I disagree. Please fuck off and leave. Economic collapse is not like google where you click a button and it happens. It takes a long time. ZH does a great job of exposing some truths. Some are a little far fetched or alarmist, but most is analytical and supported by data.
"know-nothing--Kyle Bass"
You're in a league of your own obviously. Can you tell me what I need to do next? How can I find growth with safety?
"Has the dollar collapsed?"
Reasonable question I suppose. Who can answer? It might depend on what you define as collapse.
Nixon closed the Gold window, to "temporarily" defend the dollar against the "speculators". The Government has a Plunge Protection Team. The Government is in control of exchange rates through the Exchange Stabilization Fund. The bankers got hundreds of billions of dollars in bailouts off the backs of taxpayers. The bankers manipulated Libor, and Eric "Fast and Furious" Holder says they are too big to fail and too big to jail. National Debt keeps rising with no end in sight. The Federal Reserve is printing money to buy up MBS and Treasuries. The Government/Fed controls the interest rate, how much debt (ah-hem)"we" are in, and the money supply, etc, etc, etc...
How far and deep down the rabbit hole do I need to go before I can say the dollar has collapsed? I'd say you have to decide for yourself. I can say that I've already decided for myself. I could say that for me the dollar has collapsed. Does that mean that it has collapsed for everyone? It seems there is a lot of vested interest in keeping the dollar appear healthy.
I once heard someone say that now that they had QE explained to them in enough detail that they finally understood what it was. Furthermore, now that they understood what QE was, they could no longer define what money was. Had the dollar just collapsed for them? To me it sounds like it did. But decide for yourself, make up your own mind.
"Has the dollar collapsed?"
Well it seems to have lost 98% of its buying power.
Those last 2 cents don't inspire a whole lot of confidence.
Faith is a funny thing, its there until its not.
Collapse tends to suggest something quick and sudden.
The dollar has lost 97 of its value since the Fed came into existence - hardly a recommendation, I'm sure you would agree.
Fiat & Fractional reserve = recipe for disaster.
Fiat + Fractional Reserve = FICTIONAL RESERVE BANKING
Try to keep up. Start with paper and crayons so you don't hurt yourself.
... because if you are a Cypriot with your assets tied up in your house or your business (like the Germans don't) then your cash flow is trapped in the Cyprus lockdown at $300 Euros per day to meet payroll, business expenses, and your mortgage.
Of course the lying socialist politicians, like your former Nazi collaborator buddy, Soros, always manage to secretly get their money out ahead of time while sacrificing all the little people. You and Soros despise all the little people because none of them needs you.
The phony argument advanced was that since Cypriots were better off financially than Germans, how could they expect to be bailed out by the Germans. But you can believe that if you want.
Posters like you exemplify everything that is wrong with this site: its politically motivated economics that does nothing more than regurgitate taking-points of the elites like David Koch, Pete Peterson, Steven Scharzman and foremost the hedge fund pigmen. I should call this an unholy union of the rich and dumb fuckers who think that the world will stop but somehow they're going to be spared only if they can take EBT cards and Social Security away.
Your kind of all over the place.
Its not really that you make any good points but it raises an interesting subject.
On the surface for example I don't believe zh came up with the data that stated that Cyprus was among the most wealthy or that 68% of them claim not to be able to meet thier obligations. Do you know for example that the average income in Manhattan is like 90k but the median is something like 45k?
What about Greece? I think they are collapsing for like the 3rd time right? Many said they would not collapse and invested heavily in high yield Greek debt.
I think the Iran thing is now being openly discussed - zh was pretty much on the mark.
Are you suggesting th Bass is incorrect that Japan is circling the drain?
ZH is raising issues that the mainstream avoids and can only point to where the trends and probabilties are headed but he is not the rain maker. What he does systematically fail to account for is the desperation and lack of restraint by the financial community - he did not predict the theft of funds in Cyprus and did not predict the the fed would obscure the reality with unlimited printing - he hugely underestimates the level of corruption involved because with this level of corruption there is no right answer everything is as willed by the central powers. Gold is not safe equities are a scam and yet are the only game in town. ZH argues from the perspective of free will and free markets and that at some point people will have the will to stand up against the banking overlords - as your comments will attest: "Good luck with that."
I did not read the name of Mr. curlyhaired DieselBoom: please, please give him tonight the nobel prize for advanced economics 101, he did and made it. This template is and will be tought in any university as a future vademecum how to handle this kind of annoying boring situations. I am waiting for the moment when the Cypriots thank the Ivorytowerbrusseldumbasses, that they took them their money away. Remember my words.
so 8% still trust the central bank? Is the mental handicap rate really that high in Cyprus?
WILL YOU BONERHEADS STOP LINKING STUFF TO FINANCIAL TIMES.IT IS A SUBSCRIPTION ONLY SITE....
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Although the first article was a little misleading - didn't directly state that Iceland was going to withdraw application for EU membership - I wish it did.
just search for the exact article title in google and click in that way, free ;)