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20 Signs That The Next Great Economic Depression Has Already Started In Europe

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,

The next Great Depression is already happening - it just hasn't reached the United States yet.  Things in Europe just continue to get worse and worse, and yet most people in the United States still don't get it.  All the time I have people ask me when the "economic collapse" is going to happen.  Well, for ages I have been warning that the next major wave of the ongoing economic collapse would begin in Europe, and that is exactly what is happening.  In fact, both Greece and Spain already have levels of unemployment that are greater than anything the U.S. experienced during the Great Depression of the 1930s.

Pay close attention to what is happening over there, because it is coming here too.  You see, the truth is that Europe is a lot like the United States.  We are both drowning in unprecedented levels of debt, and we both have overleveraged banking systems that resemble a house of cards.  The reason why the U.S. does not look like Europe yet is because we have thrown all caution to the wind.  The Federal Reserve is printing money as if there is no tomorrow and the U.S. government is savagely destroying the future that our children and our grandchildren were supposed to have by stealing more than 100 million dollars from them every single hour of every single day.  We have gone "all in" on kicking the can down the road even though it means destroying the future of America.  But the alternative scares the living daylights out of our politicians.  When nations such as Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy tried to slow down the rate at which their debts were rising, the results were absolutely devastating.  A full-blown economic depression is raging across southern Europe and it is rapidly spreading into northern Europe.  Eventually it will spread to the rest of the globe as well.

The following are 20 signs that the next Great Depression has already started in Europe...

#1 The unemployment rate in France has surged to 10.6 percent, and the number of jobless claims in that country recently set a new all-time record.

#2 Unemployment in the eurozone as a whole is sitting at an all-time record of 12 percent.

#3 Two years ago, Portugal's unemployment rate was about 12 percent.  Today, it is about 17 percent.

#4 The unemployment rate in Spain has set a new all-time record of 27 percent.  Even during the Great Depression of the 1930s the United States never had unemployment that high.

#5 The unemployment rate among those under the age of 25 in Spain is an astounding 57.2 percent.

#6 The unemployment rate in Greece has set a new all-time record of 27.2 percent.  Even during the Great Depression of the 1930s the United States never had unemployment that high.

#7 The unemployment rate among those under the age of 25 in Greece is a whopping 59.3 percent.

#8 French car sales in March were 16 percent lower than they were one year earlier.

#9 German car sales in March were 17 percent lower than they were one year earlier.

#10 In the Netherlands, consumer debt is now up to about 250 percent of available income.

#11 Industrial production in Italy has fallen by an astounding 25 percent over the past five years.

#12 The number of Spanish firms filing for bankruptcy is 45 percent higher than it was a year ago.

#13 Since 2007, the value of non-performing loans in Europe has increased by 150 percent.

#14 Bank withdrawals in Cyprus during the month of March were double what they were in February even though the banks were closed for half the month.

#15 Due to an absolutely crippling housing crash, there are approximately 3 million vacant homes in Spain today.

#16 Things have gotten so bad in Spain that entire apartment buildings are being overwhelmed by squatters...

A 285-unit apartment complex in Parla, less than half an hour’s drive from Madrid, should be an ideal target for investors seeking cheap property in Spain. Unfortunately, two thirds of the building generates zero revenue because it’s overrun by squatters.

“This is happening all over the country,” said Jose Maria Fraile, the town’s mayor, who estimates only 100 apartments in the block built for the council have rental contracts, and not all of those tenants are paying either. “People lost their jobs, they can’t pay mortgages or rent so they lost their homes and this has produced a tide of squatters.”

#17 As I wrote about the other day, child hunger has become so rampant in Greece that teachers are reporting that hungry children are begging their classmates for food.

#18 The debt to GDP ratio in Italy is now up to 136 percent.

#19 25 percent of all banking assets in the UK are in banks that are leveraged at least 40 to 1.

#20 German banking giant Deutsche Bank has more than 55 trillion euros (which is more than 72 trillion dollars) of exposure to derivatives.  But the GDP of Germany for an entire year is only about 2.7 trillion euros.

Yes, U.S. stocks have been doing great so far this year, but the truth is that the stock market has become completely and totally divorced from economic reality.  When it does catch up with the economic fundamentals, it will probably happen very rapidly like we saw back in 2008.

Our politicians can try to kick the can down the road for as long as they can, but at some point the consequences of our foolish decisions will hunt us down and overtake us.  The following is what Peter Schiff had to say about this coming crisis the other day...

"The crisis is imminent," Schiff said.  "I don't think Obama is going to finish his second term without the bottom dropping out. And stock market investors are oblivious to the problems."

"We're broke, Schiff added.  "We owe trillions. Look at our budget deficit; look at the debt to GDP ratio, the unfunded liabilities. If we were in the Eurozone, they would kick us out."

Schiff points out that the market gains experienced recently, with the Dow first topping 14,000 on its way to setting record highs, are giving investors a false sense of security.

"It's not that the stock market is gaining value... it's that our money is losing value. And so if you have a debased currency... a devalued currency, the price of everything goes up. Stocks are no exception," he said.

"The Fed knows that the U.S. economy is not recovering," he noted. "It simply is being kept from collapse by artificially low interest rates and quantitative easing. As that support goes, the economy will implode."

So please don't think that we are any different from Europe.

If the United States government started only spending the money that it brings in, we would descend into an economic depression tomorrow.

The only way that we can continue to live out the economic fantasy that we see all around us is by financially abusing our children and our grandchildren.

The U.S. economy has become a miserable junkie that is completely and totally addicted to reckless money printing and gigantic mountains of debt.

If we stop printing money and going into unprecedented amounts of debt we are finished.

If we continue printing money and going into unprecedented amounts of debt we are finished.

Either way, this is all going to end very, very badly.


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Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:17 | 3516367 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I had no idea!

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:37 | 3516436 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

Europe has never been in a better shape. It's just some bad data and data can be manipulated. 

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:50 | 3516486 true brain
true brain's picture

#10; I'm surprised at Netherland. Supposed to be conservative; look like they got the american disease, consume and consume even more.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:08 | 3516546 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Overwhelming desire to acquire more shit than a human needs is now a global disease.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:28 | 3516609 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Sign #1: unemployment in Spain reaching 25% and the line is near-vertical

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:37 | 3516635 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

The age 20 is the most significant of the twenty

the poor bastards will become angry bastards. See Popo

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 00:17 | 3516732 knukles
knukles's picture

French car sales are 16% lower?

Well of course!
Nobody buys a French car FFS....

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 00:32 | 3516778 prains
prains's picture


people are back to living in caves in the 21st century

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 02:14 | 3516880 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Vice on HBO had half an episode last week on the crisis in Europe, recommended for anyone on here that's curious about whats going on in the streets of Italy and Greece. 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 03:17 | 3516900 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

I've been all over Europe.

I've been to Walmarts all over America.

I have to hope Walmart is not a place to contemplate America's future.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 03:37 | 3516928 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Hey, we have K-Marts, too. Don't hate us because we're rich!

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 03:54 | 3516940 Hengist
Hengist's picture

My wife actually worked for an auditing firm that was tasked to find out why K-Mart was failing, she was personally responsible for crunching the numbers by hand no computers involved.   What she found was that the trucking firms were double billing or overbilling and that the check out staff were robbing the company blind in "ethnic" areas as well as massive shop lifting in said stores by staff and customers.  Needless to say K-Mart took the PC route and closed down profitable stores in white areas to support the "ethnic" stores.  The rest is as we say history, the truth and reality is a stranger to upper management.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 06:43 | 3517061 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Do two bads make one good these days?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 08:39 | 3517252 Bee
Bee's picture

How long ago was this?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 11:20 | 3517963 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Hey now, hater. Everybody knows ethnic shoplifting is social justice. Kmart didn't build that.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 08:05 | 3517170 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> Vice on HBO had half an episode last week on the crisis in Europe ...


On the TeeVee?! Really!

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 02:13 | 3516877 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

Hey............ I have a French car, a Peogeot 407 SW GT, it is a great car when it works.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 05:56 | 3517021 Dugald
Dugald's picture

  "Peogeot"  Merde! not another Frog car??

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 06:28 | 3517049 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

So Peugeot even misspelled their brand name on your car?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 12:59 | 3518522 Catch-22
Catch-22's picture

… 504 was a classic, even made it into “The Dukes of Hazard” TV Series ...


Edit: The legs on that thing!!!

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:46 | 3516671 spine001
spine001's picture

The Netherlands doesn't need to worry. Now they have an Argentinean Queen. Look at the track record of Cristina Kirchner president of Argentina...:)

Until next time,


Wed, 05/01/2013 - 00:30 | 3516782 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Nope. During the boom of the 90s people started borrowing and spending money like crazy. People took overvalue on their mortgages to prop up their houses or spend the extra money on consumers products etc. NL is the only place in the EU where you can deduct the interest rate of your mortgage from your taxes. All that to stimulate the sales of houses and to keep the banks and real estate and construction maffia happy. Then came the 2008 crisis. People lost their jobs, could not keep up with their mortgage payments and lost the house (and their marriages). Now we have a situation where prices of houses have dropped while the mortgages of course are still the same. Nobody is buying so the housing market is stuck. The housing market needs to corrected but that would mean that a lot of people will go bankrupt. But I don't pity them. People never questioned where the money came from and thought that sky is the limit. But the sky might fall on them. Unemployment is rising and the economy not growing. But everybody is oblivious about it. Instead, they all curse the Southern European countries. But that thing will boomerang.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 04:05 | 3516951 swedish etrade baby
swedish etrade baby's picture

"NL is the only place in the EU where you can deduct the interest rate of your mortgage from your taxes"

I disagree. Its the same in Sweden

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 05:13 | 3516998 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Same in Portugal - interests and amortizations with mortgages are deductible too, though (increasingly) limited in value.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 06:04 | 3517027 Bankrupt from B...
Bankrupt from Belgium's picture

Belgium also I think

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 07:18 | 3517092 piliage
piliage's picture

Yes, you certainly can in Belgium.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 08:01 | 3517168 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

yep, that's why everybody buys a house in Belgium. it's cheaper to buy than to rent.
But that leaves a big problem for those trying to invest in real estate because the revenue is shitty. and that's when they pay rent because those who are renting are the young kids and the insolvent once. And once they are in, even if they don't even pay first rent, it can take up to 3 to 4 years before you can kick them out and by than they mostly trash the place.

I had 3 appartments I rented out and with constant repair costs, begging for my rents, it just wasn't profitable at all to keep them.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 10:13 | 3517649 RKDS
RKDS's picture

Perhaps I've been influenced by slumlords in my area, but renting is a complete scam.  They never do any maintenance on the property, never fix anything that breaks, never communicate clearly about anything, always find some way to steal the excessive deposits they demand in spite of never putting a cent into upkeep, etc.  And then they have the unmitigated gall to come with their hand out expecting to profit at such and such a rate?


Wed, 05/01/2013 - 10:12 | 3517638 couvrot
couvrot's picture

Minor correction: just like in the US, you can deduct your mortgage interest payments from your income NOT from your taxes.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 02:29 | 3516888 hansg
hansg's picture

I find that statistic extremely hard to believe, unless it includes mortgage debt. Houses are expensive in the Netherlands. Even the cheapest apartment costs the equivalent of a few years of fulltime work.


Wed, 05/01/2013 - 02:58 | 3516912 UK debt marsh
UK debt marsh's picture

Yes it does include mortgage debt.

It is still the second highest in Europe, after Denmark.

All Dutch stats this year have looked sick - retail sales have slumped.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 03:10 | 3516920 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

then it's not consumer debt, it's total household debt

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 08:54 | 3517296 Metalredneck
Metalredneck's picture

From my family history; keeping Dutch women happy is a provider's nightmare.  Conspicuous consumption at its finest.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 10:13 | 3517519 RKDS
RKDS's picture

Number 5 is not at all surprising though.  You're 22-23 when you graduate from college.  Then you go looking for a job and the pinheads want 10 years experience with Windows 2008.  If you never learned to lie or can't rely on nepotism, finding work to support yourself fresh out of school can be really hard.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 09:55 | 3517559 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

true brain - I spoke to some friends in the Netherlands about this and they tell me that it isn't the ethnic Dutch who are living on credit, it is mostly the immigrants. Native Dutch people still for the most part own their homes, many of them mortgage-free, and they have significant savings. One friend of mine pointed out that the phenomenon of immigrants running up massive credit and then defaulting isn't limited to the Netherlands. It has apparently become well-known that anyone can get multiple lines of credit just of the boat, so to speak, and can live it up for years with no consequences. When it all falls apart, they simply head home - where they have been stashing substantial assets during their stay in the EU. It is simply a new way to loot and pillage Europe.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:40 | 3516437 Popo
Popo's picture

War is coming.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:46 | 3516470 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

They need moar "shovel-ready jobs" ... like we have....

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:54 | 3516490 true brain
true brain's picture

By the time it really hits; they would pray for war. At least they get military ration before being blown to bits.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:44 | 3516664 Law97
Law97's picture

Like digging front line trenches.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 00:14 | 3516726 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

The only trenches they'll be digging are Minecraft trenches in between drone-piloting shifts in an air-conditioned trailer.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 07:13 | 3517086 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

to shovel corpses?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 07:13 | 3517087 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

I suppose that burying war dead would qualify as shovel-ready work. Wouldn't it?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 07:56 | 3517154 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture


Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:54 | 3516489 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



Yep.  And watch the nationalist pride start to bloom in the Euro Countries as the propoganda sets the local brand of brown folk on the hot list of the reason why things are so fucked.

Especially the muslim, brown folk.

Anything to cast eyes of blame off of The City.

Or Washington, for that matter.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:54 | 3516676 piliage
piliage's picture

Want to know a dirty little secret about Brussels? Brussels has about 21% unemployment. Yep, that high. Why you ask? The socialist party, to stay in power, has had an open door immigration policy to North Africa and uses immigration to pack the voter rolls. You can vote in Belgium even if you are not a citizen and obtain the most generous welfare benefits in the world just by having a residence card. Brussels, along with the absurd unemployment rate also, rather unsurprisingly, has one of the highest crime rates of any capital city in Europe too. You see, the socialist party has a very lax approach to law and the majority of judges are socialist.

"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves."

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:55 | 3516685 MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

@ we know where Oblahblah got his vision.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 00:18 | 3516741 knukles
knukles's picture

Bring the beggars in, fund a better then subsistence lifestyle, grant all due rights as nominal citizenry, let them vote and voi-l-a a solid libtard voting block.
An enslaved people, the Free Shit Army is.

Pure fucking evil

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 01:43 | 3516826 piliage
piliage's picture

Hey Knuck, you'll love this. The only good thing about this arrangement in Brussels is that the 'underclass underprivileged youths' of Brussels have now taken to removing the wealth of the Eurocrats at random on the street, in daylight, often a block or two from the commission or the parliament. It is the ultimate karma circle and couldn't happen to a nicer group of folks.

To quote my favourite curse of Frank Zappa, "may your shit come to life, and kiss you."

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 05:56 | 3517020 Acet
Acet's picture

Every politician in power all over Europe was busy packing the Welfare rolls for their own gain. Even Thatcher in the UK (supposedly the ultimate conservative) was filling the Disabled rolls with perfectly able people just so that her unemployment numbers would improve.

Then there was the whole open door immigration policies, supposedly to bring needed qualified people in and yet always done in such a way that Western countries overwelming imported the poor and unspecialized peasants of 3rd world nations (which would then undercut the wages for the local unspecialized workers, with said locals ending up on welfare). This was great news for the well-connected companies that had lobbyied hard for just exactly that sort of immigration policy, who then had lower manpower costs and bigger their profits (just go into any retail store owned by a tax evading big corp - for example Starbucks or Tesco - here in London to see what I mean). Unsurprisingly the age of open door immigration policies and outsourcing coincinded with the growth of CEO income from 43 times average worked salaries to 1000+ times average worker salaries.


Wed, 05/01/2013 - 07:16 | 3517088 piliage
piliage's picture

filling the Disabled rolls with perfectly able people just so that her unemployment numbers would improve.

Page 2 of the Obama administration play book as well

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 01:48 | 3516851 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Brussels is so friggin dangeorus at night now it's crazy...and how about that neighbporhood near the downtown train station...when you get off the train out the station you feel like your in Mali.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 06:10 | 3517035 Bankrupt from B...
Bankrupt from Belgium's picture

and finally Antwerp got rid of their left of centre mayor after many, many years of socialism.....hopefully Brussels will follow - wij zullen zien

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 00:22 | 3516734 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

that's funny our nationalist propaganda killed more muslims in the last decade than the reverse

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 21:25 | 3520741 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture


I know I'm a day out here, but that was the point.

But I have relatives in 

So, funny in a nervous laughter sort of way, yes, I totally agree.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 08:26 | 3517219 Ayn NY
Ayn NY's picture

I feel like we are witnessing similar events to the ones that took place 100 years ago. It seemed that WWI took the world by surprise but by the virtue of hindsight it seems pretty obvious that it was going to happen. What event will light the fuse this time?

By the way, if there are any Keynesians here, if war is so good for the economy, shouldn't we be booming right now?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 09:01 | 3517325 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

WWI should NOT have taken the world by surprise, it was certainly planned. Britain did enter into SECRET agreements with France and thereby Russia unbalancing the Central Powers equilibrium with Russia and France. The Agreements were so secret that Germany did not know, Cabinet did not know, Parliament did not know.......that was hardly designed for Deterrence; it was designed for a Trap

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 09:06 | 3517337 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

You have had a war economy in the US for some time, given a huge boost after 9/11. Bush reflated the US economy on War. What do you think $3 Trillion bought in Iraq and Afghanistan ? It was more than the GDP of both countries - Afghan is c $33 Billion and Iraq c. $145 billion GDP.

That means somewhere the USA spent Trillions on Wages, Contracts, Weapons, Consumables and kept the US economy rolling at the same time as having Tax Cuts.

You have had the boom now you get to pay for the wars

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 09:57 | 3517572 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

or perhaps revolution is coming instead

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:46 | 3516472 Lets Buy The Dip
Lets Buy The Dip's picture

We all know they are just hiding or delaying this depression so it will be 10 times worse than anyone. 

also the market is hitting new highs, they are putting everyone in a false sense of security.  SELL IN MAY - WILL IT WORK?

When you know how the elite work they do the opposite and get everyone thinking wrong, and the WHAM! the real trouble starts. 

Just like the bombing in boston, everyone thought they were safe, even at a marathon...really? then BANG, BANG lives taken, and no one even suspected a marathon bombing. 

Sneaky, yes!, clever....well maybe, but its lower than low what these scums plan. We can all agree on that. 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 00:09 | 3516723 tango
tango's picture

Nobody is manipulating events.  There is no need for nefarious plotters setting up failure.  The truth is far simpler and scarier:  The intelligentsia/talking heads know nothing more than "mixed-economy", politically correct "fairness" and Keynsian theory leading to their belief that the solution is...more debt throught either QE or credit expansion. The powers that wannabe are grasping at straws, hoping against hope that globally, folks will suddenly start spending all those hoards of disposable income.   They simply react to events, bouncing off walls and yelping, "Yep, that didn't work so let's do it again!"

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 03:42 | 3516932 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

half-true. The other half: Jew-Globalist Agenda: Destroy the Nations. Golden Dawn has it exactly right.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 01:33 | 3516837 Seer
Seer's picture

"We all know they are just hiding or delaying this depression so it will be 10 times worse than anyone. "

Well, when everyone is weaker then they'll likely not be able to lash out as hard.  Real threats never come from those that are near starvation...

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:01 | 3516512 freewolf7
freewolf7's picture


Fuck 'em.

Got a new gig lined up in Michagan.

Life is good.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 00:33 | 3516780 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Well, I hope you haven't been hired as an editor.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 01:29 | 3516819 freewolf7
freewolf7's picture

Kidding. We will go, as Europe goes.

My Homer Simpson impression.

Not really moving.

Got a straight gig here,

working for the Federal Reserve.


Wed, 05/01/2013 - 03:38 | 3516929 Hengist
Hengist's picture

So you are counterfeitting currency?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 04:13 | 3516958 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Or I can get a straight job.  I've done it before.  Never minded working hard.  Its who I'm working for.

Gillian Welch - "Everything is Free"

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 01:33 | 3516832 Freddie
Freddie's picture

#1 The unemployment rate in France has surged to 10.6 percent

Americans would die for that.  Unemployment is O's Amerika is a way over 15%.  Hope & Change.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 02:56 | 3516909 The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

The Shadowstats US Unemployment rate, the "real U" number which I trust any day above the govt "Fake U" number, is closer to 24%.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 03:49 | 3516939 The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

You've got to be kidding me. I got junked for posting the real unemployment numbers? Huh?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 06:41 | 3517058 No Euros please...
No Euros please we're British's picture

Well, I just upticked you and you got 3 ups and 1 down, go figure.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 04:26 | 3516966 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

The US is better than Europe at MOPE - 'Management of Perspective Economics' - e.g. lying to the public and distorting perceptions - 'All is Well!  All is Well! Recovery underway!.   Media here is owned lock stock and barrel by corporate who are following the script.

REAL unemployment in the US IS close to 24% - worse than the 1932  Great Depression high.  

The only reason you're not seeing people selling pencils in the street and Okies on the road is the amount of government benefits - long term unemployment and food stamps.  People are staying in houses long after they stopped paying mortgages yet banks are doing nothing to evict.  Whole swaths of the country are a complete mess but you're not going to see that on TV.

Just wait - as soon as the government stops paying off the masses not to riot - or as soon as prices get too high for EBT benefits, things are going to get nasty.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 08:42 | 3517260 Ayn NY
Ayn NY's picture

The average to foreclose in NYS is 1000 days. I know a squatter now. The bank would rather have her living for free than have to foreclose and push all the houses in the area down in price. It's all about balance sheets...

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 02:51 | 3516903 The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

Man. No kidding. These are some scary ass fucking numbers.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 02:55 | 3516906 Aeternus
Aeternus's picture

*Looks around*


What Depression?



Wed, 05/01/2013 - 07:29 | 3517108 TrumpXVI
TrumpXVI's picture


I had no idea either!

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:20 | 3516377 Slightly Insane
Slightly Insane's picture

Just absolutely wonderful.  I was still stuck in the Great Recession ..... no.... wait it was the Great Recovery or something like that .... now I have to change from a "brown threat level" to and "Orange Threat level" , or maybe it was Yellow, and now it's Brown (kinda like number 1 and number 2) ... maybe I need to call Big Sis and ask what the "threat level" is?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 00:32 | 3516786 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

I always check my underpants for the proper threat color and the volume of threat.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 01:28 | 3516824 Seer
Seer's picture

Threat level is Plaid, repeat, the threat level is Plaid.  Just remain calm and eat haggis...

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 03:46 | 3516935 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid


                                   - Steve Martin

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:23 | 3516390 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Ironically, depressions need not be depressing!

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 01:40 | 3516843 freewolf7
freewolf7's picture

I really want to get this. Is this a zen thing?

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:26 | 3516391 Slightly Insane
Slightly Insane's picture

I am going to ask .... (I've got ADD or some shit like that) ... Just how bad is it going to end .... inquiring minds want to know?


Am I going to have to eat my leather shoes in the winter and burn all the books and furniture to keep warm, or will I just be one of the dead?

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:39 | 3516446 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

If you have to ask, you will probably be one of the dead.  But you'll be one of the Grateful Dead.  So you got that going for you.

Anywhoo.... it will hurt really bad for a really long time.  Do you really need to know more than that or would you prefer we just rip the bandaid off now and be done with it?


Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:48 | 3516669 PeterLemonJello
PeterLemonJello's picture

You're like bright sunshine on a Monday morning.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 01:43 | 3516846 freewolf7
freewolf7's picture

Ah, the warm dissociation as I slip into

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 03:54 | 3516941 The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

Kunstler pretty much nailed it in his book The Long Emergency. The title says it all.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:18 | 3516580 aphlaque_duck
aphlaque_duck's picture

How bad it gets for YOU depends what side of history you choose to be on.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:32 | 3516624 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

The problem about the end point is none of us on this site might live long enough to see the other side, nor our descendants, if any, for the prior Dark Ages lasted about 800 to 1000 YEARS.

But, that is my worst case scenario, and I feel it is plausible for how many people do you know can actually do something without "an app for that" if things go totally Mad Max?





Wed, 05/01/2013 - 00:19 | 3516743 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

That 'age' was only 'dark' for north Western Europe. Most of the rest of the civilized world went on its merry way as per normal.

I will agree that we are fucked, but there is no need to use false data to prove it... Plenty of real data for support.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 03:54 | 3516943 The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

In Damascus they had hanging gardens, and in Moorish Spain they had lighted streets and hundreds of heated public baths....fuck and I just left a screed on how we should stop all immigration. Contradicting myself again.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 01:32 | 3516830 Seer
Seer's picture

Ha!  Wuss!

ALL of this pales in comparison to what things are going to be like during the next glacial period, which, depending on what clock you look at, could either be not too far off or could be overdue.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 02:12 | 3516875 theliberalliberal
theliberalliberal's picture

Ah yes,  the "world will get so hot it will freeze" theory of global warming


Never could work that out

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 04:01 | 3516948 The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

It's pretty straightforward. It has to do with saltwater density. Melting ice decreases the salinity of ocean water which decreases the density of ocean currents. This in turn shuts down the gulf stream which causes the next ice age. Science is pretty solid on this one. Plenty of YT videos 5 min or less on the subject if you want to check them out.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 07:34 | 3517119 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

Uh, 'bout how long would it take to get real chilly here in DC area? I'd like to get my house sold ahead of the (ice)pack?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 08:51 | 3517256 The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

Chuckle. It doesn't work that way. The ice comes down from the North. So Scandanavia gets wiped out first, followed by Holland and Germany, then the UK, Belgium and most of France. Spain and southern Italy would still probably be inhabitable. Most of Canada would be gone, but it might not even make it's way as far south as DC, so keep paying your mortgage.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 03:56 | 3516944 The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

Ha! Wuss yourself!

My Supervolcano trumps your lame-ass glaciers.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 05:30 | 3517008 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Yep, and ironically you have to thank the Muslims for its end...

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 00:36 | 3516790 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Am I going to have to eat my leather shoes in the winter and burn all the books and furniture to keep warm, or will I just be one of the dead?


Everybody around you will be dead, gone forever. You will miraculously live and have time enough at last to read sites like ZeroHedge.  Sadly, you will step on your glasses and be unable to read anything anymore.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 01:49 | 3516853 piliage
piliage's picture

Submitted for your approval me ROFLROROFLROFL!!!!!!

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 02:54 | 3516908 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Henry Beemis [Burgess Meredith], also played 'The Obsolete Man' in the series...

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 06:01 | 3517028 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Be like us then - multiple pairs of specs! Worthwhile getting scratch-resistant Polycarbonate lenses in a titanium frame. These CAN withstand even being driven over . . . .

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 07:41 | 3517124 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

Luckily, all those dead left their eyeglasses behind, so you're still in business, baby!

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 01:43 | 3516850 Svendblaaskaeg
Svendblaaskaeg's picture

"I am going to ask .... (I've got ADD or some shit like that) ... Just how bad is it going to end .... inquiring minds want to know?"

Boring Prophet: There shall in that time be rumors of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things with the sort of raffia-work base, that has an attachment. At that time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer, and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 01:58 | 3516862 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

I'd like to remind all the people worrying about energy that E=m*c^2 still and there's no shortage of mass (especially with the obesity epidemic). (HAHA)  And c is still 3 x 10^8 m/s (i.e. a whopping big number when concerting mass to energy).  Breaking chemical bonds to release energy is so 19th century!  I've got a nice big bottle of anti-hydrogen stored in my magnetic torus in my basement just waiting for liberation.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 08:00 | 3517166 Itgoestoeleven
Itgoestoeleven's picture

Well JC,

E=m*c^2 is the law of nature, but when we loose the rule of man's law and the nuclear plants are unattended,whatever survives will  not believe its misfortune. I have put some thought into this because I live in northern NJ and litterally surrounded by nuclear plants. Assholes are the least of my worries. Your savior is my demise. Cockroaches and rats bitches!

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 12:18 | 3518344 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Been meaning to try and get you online. Your handle Coltrane is interesting as he is one of my favorites. In fact he was part of the Miles Davis sextet on where got my handle from; a1956 song and ablum called:---Milestones 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 12:25 | 3518378 tip e. canoe
Wed, 05/01/2013 - 13:32 | 3518718 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Appriciate the vidio. As common in Jazz it's different from my album and 33 record but very neat. Man there are other Jazz folks out there. Wow; so cool to know there are, other buffs out there          Milestones

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 02:11 | 3516867 J in Vegas
J in Vegas's picture

Well..... where do you live? First world country? Third world? You have an internet connection, so there is a start. I would like to think as this as a mental game. What happens? Since I don't have your position in the world, I will use mine.... Lets dig deep into the world of J in Vegas...

Las Vegas is a city of 2 million people in the American Southwest. Nevada is almost all desert or high plateau. Las Vegas grows 0 food, gets 90%+ of its water from one source, Lake Mead, gets 75%+ of its food from California, delivered on 1 road , I-15. It also gets 90%+ of all of its gasoline from like 5 pipelines from Socal refineries. I don't have the info for Las Vegas, but Nevada gets 68% of its power from Nat Gas. Most of Hoover Dam power goes to L.A. ( Like they deserve any of it... LibTards!) So looking at that data, there is some serious bottlenecks! Once everything goes to shit, which will happen suddenly and unexpectedly , the Just In Time (JIT) bussiness model falls apart. I think gasoline will break down first. We import something like 38% or something like that. Once that goes, the food doesn't get transported, or it costs too much to transport and sell. "#1 thats why I grow food in my backyard". Then getting gasoline in Las Vegas will be hard to find and/or will be crazy expensive depending if they do price controls or not. "#2 thats why I drive a VOLT for"

Then all the airplanes stop coming , or slow to a trickle. Why? cuz jet fuel costs a grip! . The power stays on until the end. Without power , the whole system will unravel, versus a semi- controlled chaos that will probally materialize. At least in the beginning. I will be laying low. Trying to work, or doing anything productive at this time will be a lost cause. Its about survival at this point. Maybe the EBT cards get shut off at this point. Riots in the street. All the casino's are fucked. So seriously fucked. My Dad has about 16 acres of forest land in Cali around 108 Hwy around Mi Wuk Village. I might bounce at that point . Depends on the food supply at the house and the ability to drive 8 hours somewhere. I HATE CALI! I really don't want to go there. One of my projects of late has been looking for some farm land somewhere out there , maybe Oregon, Colorado, or Idaho?

Then I don't know from there. ???? Alot of questions......

J in Vegas

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 03:56 | 3516945 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Survival rates post-Rumble:


Rural: <50%

Suburban: <30%

Cities: <10%

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 04:07 | 3516955 The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

I agree cities are the most fucked. Not sure I'm as optimistic as you about the  burbs though.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 04:30 | 3516968 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

The burbs should fare OK if the urban assault vehicles stay away...

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 04:49 | 3516985 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

I live there. Just givin' myself a chance...

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 08:49 | 3517276 Itgoestoeleven
Itgoestoeleven's picture

If the SHTF, in the begining the cities are a bad place to be. So are the 'burbs. Fire bad! but after a few weeks, the cities will have no food or support (no food = no people). NO assholes means safer living.  the burbs will become overpopulated and very bad as food stores dwindle, the hoard will head to the farmlands like locusts or be stuck in the burbs for lack of fuel. So after the initial meltdown the cities might not be such a bad place to set up shop. Well equipped and provisioned might do quite well. Then again being far away from everyone and being self sufficient is probably the best way to go but I have never met or heard of anyone like that.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 08:55 | 3517303 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Numbers made up by someone who obviously knows nothing about rural folk.

We know who our neighbors are.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 09:01 | 3517319 Ayn NY
Ayn NY's picture

As a native of Vegas, I can't think of any place worse to be. There is no arable land. The soil is as bad as soil can be and if you dig a few inches you hit clay. That why they import most of their food. Of course I left after high school, never looking back, so I might not be the best person to comment.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:26 | 3516396 Wanton1
Wanton1's picture

Star Chamber Waltz

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:30 | 3516397 teolawki
teolawki's picture

The spat between France and Germany seems to be amping up a bit more as well. Trouble in Euro-Paradise. 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 05:35 | 3517011 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

It's getting warmer - they'll nail it when Europe finds Europe is Europe's biggest problem...

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:31 | 3516401 dobermangang
dobermangang's picture

But we're quickly becoming a banana republic with dreadlocks.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:55 | 3516492 pods
pods's picture

That story is the perfect end to a day.

Guy loses $2600 (life savings?) trying to win a fuckin X-box at a carnival.  Really?  

And the pic shows him, with a STROLLER and that fucking banana.

And people are mad at the CARNIVAL?

Maybe some Good Samaritan will donate him an X-box, get him another tattoo, and promptly cut his balls off.

Jesus Harold Christmas we are so screwed.


Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:07 | 3516543 teolawki
teolawki's picture

How did this genius ever save up $2600?

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:16 | 3516569 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

he bought 111 shares of GGP at $1 in 3/2009

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:36 | 3516639 enloe creek
enloe creek's picture

married into money
proly knocked up jamie d's daughter or granddaughter in the kitchen of the food court where he worked at selling taco's and pot on the side

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 04:16 | 3516959 The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

Perfect match for Snookie.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:12 | 3516562 Cobra
Cobra's picture

Odd, as Xbox are not in shortage, and can be purchased anywhere games are sold! (For roughly 10% of said life savings.)

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 05:29 | 3517009 wolfnipplechips
wolfnipplechips's picture

That made me laugh!

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 05:55 | 3517023 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

that's one helluva expensive 2nd hand xbox - you can get them for a fifth of that on ebay...

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:17 | 3516576 ironmace
ironmace's picture

After he lost more than the price of one, you'd think he'd quit.

2600 his entire life. hmm.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 00:22 | 3516753 knukles
knukles's picture

So the "H" is for Harold....

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 01:49 | 3516854 Ineverslice
Ineverslice's picture



Wed, 05/01/2013 - 01:56 | 3516861 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Good one, Knuks!

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:32 | 3516408 Dr.Engineer
Dr.Engineer's picture

The word 'sad' does not even describe the horror that decent people are decending into.  The politicos have gone utterly mad.  That madness will come here to the US.

Repentence is not a nice word but judgement begins with each of us.

Prayer must work or we are all doomed.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:35 | 3516628 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Petition the lord with prayer

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:49 | 3516678 enloe creek
enloe creek's picture

we are so worthy i bet prayer will work. it's so unfair to have to give up our empire can't we get god to do something to keep us rolling in opulence while the world declines into horrible destitution just so we can enjoy our priveldged little lives a little longer

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 04:19 | 3516961 The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

Yes but doesn't the God of the Bible say that when people go too far, he won't listen to their prayers? They'll cry out but I won't answer them? I'm sure it says that more than once in the Good Book.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 04:32 | 3516974 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

He even hung the Chosen People out to dry on more than one occasion when they stepped too far out of bounds.  America, America, God shed His grace on Thee.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:33 | 3516410 mydogisprettier...
mydogisprettierthanyou's picture

but, but, but......the stock market is waaaay up????

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:18 | 3516581 GoldForCash
GoldForCash's picture

With monopoly not pass to collect 200.00 dollars

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:33 | 3516414 howenlink
howenlink's picture

The main reason I read ZH is because, WTSHTF, I think I'll learn about it here first.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 22:53 | 3516493 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

You must be new.  Have the dots not been connected clearly enough (on ZH and elsewhere) yet?  When it happens you won't need ZH to tell you.  It will be too late then.  Everyone will know.  It's more a question of what you will do about it beforehand, during and after, having been fully warned for a considerable time now.

Short version: debt is going to crush the system.  It almost did in 2008.  Extreme central bank measures pulled it back from the brink but it is likely a temporary reprieve.  We traded imminent collapse for a longer term liquidity trap.  And that's where it stands today- mid liquidity trap, real issues underlying the problem still barely even acknowleged, let alone dealt with.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:13 | 3516567 freewolf7
freewolf7's picture

The revolution will be on ZH, real time.


Wed, 05/01/2013 - 09:52 | 3517555 Itgoestoeleven
Itgoestoeleven's picture

MSM will be awesome when the ship starts sinking. Remember how funny Bagdad Bob was when spouting all that crazy shit about having the infidels on the run and surrendering in droves.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:15 | 3516572 howenlink
howenlink's picture

Thanks for the tip. I read Atlas Shrugged in 1988, so I do not qualify as new. Per my definition, TSHTF has not happened yet. I need advanced warning from ZH so I can pick up some steaks for the grill when I head home for the last time.

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:39 | 3516647 freewolf7
freewolf7's picture

There might be a line at the store.

But a great way to go if you snag a T-bone.


Back porch.




Wed, 05/01/2013 - 00:20 | 3516750 Cobra
Cobra's picture

+1 for "Chillin, Grillin, & Swillin..." Especially in an apocalyptic scenario.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 09:47 | 3517524 Itgoestoeleven
Itgoestoeleven's picture

Oh there will be plenty of smoke, but not from your grill

Tue, 04/30/2013 - 23:45 | 3516660 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

You probably will need ZH to tell you, actually. MSM outlets  (like Yahoo) will surely show you the stock indices going down and currencies moving. But you will need ZH to learn about the more important stuff that is going on, like which banks are about to fail and advance warning of moves to impost capital controls and other shit.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 06:13 | 3517037 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Aye, all true . . .

But ZH is FUN. (And, when it all goes to pot, as it will, soon, the running commentary here will be truly awesome.)

We are rather looking forward to this (it'll certainly beat the MSM!!)

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