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And Now, The Ugly Side Of A College Education
Yesterday we showed the good side of college by presenting those majors that result in the best starting salaries fresh out of college. Now the bad side.
According to a survey by Accenture, more than 40% of recent US college graduates are "disillusioned", "underemployed" or "need more training" to get on a career track. But... what about those tends of thousands in student loans, or at least the remainder that was not spent on Apple products? Turns out the marginal utility of a college education is dropping as fast as the total notional in Federal student loans is rising. What is most ironic, is that according to the survey, many of the respondents end up at jobs that do not even require a college degree. Of the respondents, 34% said they owed $30,000 or less, while 17% had between $30,000 and $50,000 in student loans.
So what is the solution: why more degrees of course!
Nearly half, 42 percent, of recent graduates expect they will need an advanced degree to further their career and almost a quarter are already planning to take graduate courses. More degrees, more debt, more dead end opportunities for a generation that is stuck in place not because it is underqualified, but because of barriers to entry erected by those already in the workforce, especially those aged 55 and over who courtesy of Bernanke's ZIRP4EVA can't afford to retire, and who as the following chart shows are employed more now than ever. The losers: those aged 20-24 whose employment level has not budged in the past four decades despite a demographic boom that puts millions more into precisely this age cohort with every passing year. Where are those who are not in the labor force (and not playing Call of Duty)? Why in college of course.
More from Reuters:
"For our nation's youngest workers, as well as for the workforce at large, there is a real need for employers to reexamine how they hire, train and develop their employees," said Katherine Lavelle, of the global management consulting firm Accenture, which conducted the survey.
More than half of graduates said it was difficult finding a job, but 39 percent were employed by the time they left college. Sixty eight percent said they are working full time, while 16 percent are in part-time positions.
The top industries that graduates wanted to work in were education, media and entertainment and healthcare.
Just over half, 53 percent, of graduates found full-time jobs in their field of study.
In addition to being underemployed many graduates thought they would have done better in the job market if they had studied a different major, and more than half also intended to go back to school within the next five years.
The biggest disappointment: the difference between perceptions about wage potential and reality.
The survey uncovered a gap between what students expect to earn in their first job and their actual salary. Only 15 percent of this year's graduates think they will earn less than $25,000 but a third of recent graduates said they make that amount or less.
Will any of this change the sad reality where even the hope of a lucrative future for most involves drowning in debt? Of course not. After all in the new normal, "money dilution is prosperity" and "debt is wealth." If this is the case for sovereign nations and corporations, why not for the individual as well. Because it is not as if anyone expects any of the record outstanding debt to ever be repaid.
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Our oldest asked us if we would fund her getting a MBA. We laughed so hard we almost projectile vomited. "Damn!" she said " Why do my parents have to be so fiscally responsible...Well it doesn't hurt to ask."
Sad thing is I know people that would add a 2nd to their already heavily mortgaged home to do it. When I questioned one of them about it they said " Well, you've got do what ever it takes to help your children." Being a financially responsible parent doesn't seem to rate high these days.
Miffed;-)
My oldest got an MS in Pediatric nursing, but damn if she can pass the state boards as a practitioner. The youngest decided to join the USAF after his AS and although we were initially against it, the current economic picture justified his decision.
My two kids are both gainfully employed in high paying jobs. But then I live in Canada.
Would that be Terrence and Phillip?
She gets a A+ for asking, now get her back to the treadmill.
There is no way to reform higher ed. It needs to be rebuilt from the ground up with real measurements of productivity and skills aquisition. Unfortunately, the system now has a vested interest in getting people hooked on loans to pay for their education. This will end soon--the signs are all around. All it will take is for someone with guts to create a new kind of education.
If you want to check out one possible answer follow @oplerno on twitter. We are building one possible solution and it does not involve MOOCS but good fashioned hard work, teaching and transparency.
You would be more credible if you expressed that chart as a percentage employed in the two age groups. You are comparing 5 years of millenials with 15 years of boomers. There are nowhere near enough extra millenials per cohort to make that a reasonable comparison.
For the most part, I've been convinced for years now that "college" is just another banker scheme to get people wearing a debt-noose.
And it's a great place to collect all of the useless people, thanks to tenure.
Fuck it
A BS/BA is the new High School diploma. That's why so many colleges have to offer remedial reading and writing courses to their students. And Masters Degree is the equivalent of BS degree 20 years ago. The quality of med school students has also significantly deteriorated. I think I read 80% of college students rank their IQ in the top 20%. There is a huge perception problem, created by a generation of being coddled. Some kids even take their parents to job interviews after graduating. I'm not saying, catch a ride to the interview. I'm saying in the room WITH the interviewer. It's NUTS.
I read an article yesterday advising millenials not to text during job interviews.
Do you mean to say that it might affect their chances of getting hired, like that flaming skull tattoo on their neck?
@ ebworthen:
To me, nothing says "Toolbag" more, than corporate logo tattoos.
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0oG7kzmSIBR4FIAMJtXNy...
Those are for "Monster" energy drinks.
OT -
Experience is the best teacher, imho, but also the hardest, since it gives the test first, and the lesson later.
I too am astounded by young Men who allow themselves to be corporate branded like that - as if they were sheep or cattle branded by the "Circle F" ranch on their hind quarters with a hot poker - happily and willingly.
Aye on the school of hard knocks.
A boss of mine had a tatoo--one casual Friday I saw two bunny ears peeking up over the back waistband of her low cut jeans.
Men must be so confused today. First you see the " there's a party in my pants and everyone is invited" tramp stamp and then you're slapped with a sexual harassment suit if you call attention to it.
Miffed;-)
My father would make that the hardest interview of all time. "Ask the kid about how strong his "moral fiber" was when he was a sophomore in college....well answer the gentleman son"
Thank you for everything Dad. Especially not coming to any of my interviews.... I know you'll never see this because it's on the "interwebs".
Son
Not only do they not move out, now we need to got to the interview with them? Next, i will need to work their job as well as mine!
They are the participation trophy generation. Parents and flip flops to the interview...
what could be easier than taking advantage of teenagers !!!!....... what a bunch of scammers
And dumbass debt addicted parents who set the precedent. Parents look around and see their mortgage(s), credit cards, car loans and say... "I don't see a problem here, I have borrowed for everything else I have, why should education be any different"? And we wonder why the kids were so easily tricked.
I do have a certain bit of faith though, that the next up and coming generations will see through the BS, watching their debt riddled parents and older siblings have the life sucked out of them without the ability to pile more on to alleviate the pain.
I dont think the masses ever will but the problem is somewhat self correcting. Birth rates are down and I see it most dramatically in the people who are more likely to send their kids to college. The US cant offer subsidies to go to school forever so supply and demand should sort things out in a couple decades.
I stole candy from a six year old once.
Education should be free.
And healthcare, food, cars, itunes, and guns...oopps no guns! I meant love. Free love.
$718 billion on ?defense? and just $70 billion on education -> most developed nation have the opposite ratio and free education.
yeah like Greece.
That 718 B is heavily goosed accounting figure. Surely its over 1.2T annually if you included the future benefits they promise soldiers (then again, those promises will be renegged any way).
Its still a 'conservative' estimate of how much the 'Defense' (Empire) budget is.
It soon will be free when all of the student loans get bumped on the taxpayer's backs...just like free housing and food.
How is spending more money on education going to help anything? Kids in school have access to the same, if not better, technology than I do as an analyst at a fortune 500 (admittedly, I dont need it and neither do the kids). College costs are through the roof because subsidies encourage too many people to go to school, breaking supply and demand.
Throwing money at the problem will only hurt the children when theyre paying off the debt + interest in the future.
education IS free. the means which you acquire it, are not.
Yes, but unlike the US, they don't need so many semi-literate, Sunday-school types to send off to war and protect the country for the narcissistic execs and sociopathic Elite.
They want a competitive advantage. The US just needs a combat advantage.
/s
yes. education should be free to those who can qualify for it ie show that they are not likely to squander this scarce resource - free education ... if it ever came to it
Education is free. Schools and degrees in "Gender Inequality" are expensive.
Nailed it.
Education is never free, it always costs. It's just a matter of whether you pay for it up-front - as with schooling, or through experience by making mistakes.
Some education is free and not very good.
You get what you pay for.
when it comes to education- no you dont get what you pay for. its a myth propogated by Ivy League
My dad gave me a free education several times. And it was effective.
yeah, I got a PhD in Consequences from my old man
There is so much information available to those who are willing to look for it and think for themselves that it practically is. Aside form the cost of some used books and materials or supplies anyone can get an education 10x better than any public school for free. Learn how to teach yourself, teach you children how to learn on their own or with friends outside of schools. IMO that's the biggest step towards living freely.
Information is not the same thing as knowledge.
"What you really know is measured by what you've actually done."
Education is free and we are getting what we pay for.
NO .... HOLDON Those are my tax dollars at work.
We're being ripped off again ...
moral hazard of loading up on debt shows what is the most lucrative path. thats right, debt is wealth if you never have to repay it or never have to repay it in full. of course another condition is to spend debt funding on something of value. no i am not talking about the i phones or pads- no. but education however rediculously low quality it may be is not a bad choice. i realize that under current law student loans cannot be discharged easily. nonetheless, young learn quickly and especially moral hazard lessons.....
in other words: several years of worthless education funded by the easy loans = winning
If they won't settle for $0.30 on the dollar...
Masters in psychology= Wall Mart greeter.
You're the Zero Hedge greeter !
Dude you are so far behind the times. We go to college as our employment. That is how we make a living. I'm in for the Phd. long haul and once I get my degree I'm retiring.
The interesting fact is that 'yuth' will marry their college degree while divorcing their future employment, all in the same ceremony.
University of Phoenix!
Online education!
iPad Master's degrees will solve this!
Online iPad advanced degrees in Economics so everyone believes!
This will solve everything!
Imagine all those students getting loans to pay the loans that will stimulate the economy!
If they don't find a job after the PhD, the loans go into forbearance, then when the bubble bursts the government bails out the lenders (and/or itself), the national debt goes to $32 Trillion, and by then - who cares! The recovery will be here!
Bankers win, government apparatchiks win, students win - and will all find jobs selling stocks and insurance in the BRICS!
Break a window!
UoP is the penultimate example that Education has become Big Business and a racket. Just like Health Care, the Legal & inJustice system, and Offence system.
In fact, the entire fucking country has become one giant, fraudulent racket and Ponzi. Will SOMEBODY just please pull the plug, or flush the toilet?
Its not what you know its who you know.
Dumbasses...
I thought it was
Its not who you know its who you blow
BS!
It's not who you know but how you can play people.
They don't seem to understand that more eductation without experience won't make a difference.
I know a number of MBA's even a few Phd's with no experience and still can't find applicable work.
You're better off saving your money using your brain, creating some IP, patenting it and being your own boss.
Otherwise you just get sucked up into the matrix as just another slave.
30 years ago we got a great laugh at Frank and Moon Zappa's pop song "Valley Girl". Valley Girls daughters are now a flock of whiney, nasaly speaking Kardashians...
Hiring in the Electrical/Computer Engineering fields, of US citizens, has been scant in well over a decade. Even top grads from the nation's top schools can submit their resumes and not even receive so much as the courtesy of a response.
Meanwhile, in the IT sector and engineering, nearly a million foreigners have been brought in on H-1B's. Becoming a computer programmer is no longer a viable option for a non-CS major (and even the CS majors are having major difficulties).
The most logical thing would be to shut down the H-1B program and deport all of the H-1B holders. True best and brightest can be imported on the O-1 visa. The rest, quite frankly, are not necessary.
have you seen the resumes they send?
they take a template from the web and you get 50 exactly the same resumes when you have a job opening!!!!
I still remeber that I spend a week to write the perfect resume.
and when I applied for jobs, I always got a compliment about it.
A resume is a representation of yourself. So when you copy paste it.... fill in the dates... that tells a lot about people.
I've seen the resumes, and no, they're not from some template as you describe. When positions receive 1000 resumes, it hardly matters as 900+ of those resumes simply go into the garbage prior to human review. The US citizens' resumes, of course. The Indian ones are looked at because they work cheap.
HR is part of the problem. Managers complain that applicants are incompetent but what I believe is happening is that HR is filtering the same group of people across the board so theyre only considering a small portion of candidates. Since they generally use the same rules of thumb, theyre all competing for that same group who are not necessarily the best.
People in HR seem to care far more about appearance of substance over the ability to back it up and those are the kind of people they are drawn to. I interviewed for entry level positions in around 20 large corporations and the hardest 'technical' question I was ever asked was a basic proportions/fractions problem. I have a pretty resume so I was systematically being called back for the same types of roles that I was in no way qualified for. The worst part was that I couldnt get calls back for the kind of work I can actually do.
people who are intent on getting a job without really having the qualifications for it use internet to search for best ways to stand out. they use important search words in internet suggested fashion and that is how you get similar looking and sounding resumes. internet savvy crowd is intent on getting through the HR to the business folks and that is how they craft their resumes just to get through HR. I have seen countless examples where barely out of school kids get multiple in-person interviews and offers quickly and someone who has a wealth of business knowledge and skills cannot even get a hello out of HR. why? well experienced folks expect common sense and a little knowledge of the business from HR ie experienced people tend to assume and that is where they make a mistake. but it gets worse. when these "experts" get hired into what they apply for, what is the most frequent source they consult how to do their jobs? you guessed it- internet. just google it! so I am not against it but when an "expert" is constantly doing it at every step of the way- believe me it gets to be disgusting.........but it gets worse still. since these experts do not really have the command of basic or requisit knowledge (including those with PHD in economics from personal experience) they cannot "create" and innovate. so you have to pair them with someone who can and the entire premise of hiring these experts gets destroyed. a giant circle jerk....
Are you referring to 8 page resumes, that consist of endless paragraphs. Each consisting of a single run-on sentence. With grandiose claims of expert, working knowledge of every technology known to man? Then you hand the guy a list of 10 simple questions, and he answers 1 correctly. I am convinced that HR just does keyword scans of resumes. Grammar certainly isn't considered, neither comprehension of English.
I was asked to help select my replacement after I gave notice. I'll never forget the day my boss showed me his prospective candidate's resume. "Look at this, I'll bet he could teach you a thing or two" he said gloatingly. I replied "He probably could". My boss took a list of 10 easy questions, that I had written, into his interview. He came back out in 15 minutes with a look of complete despondency, and dis-belief on his face. He couldn't understand how someone with such a long resume could possibly have missed 9 of the 10 questions.
I have been routinely told by HR departments, that my resume is too short, and that I need to pad it so that it will get noticed. I tell them that if that sort of shit is rewarded at their company then I'm not interested in working there. I've already had my life's fill of bull-shit.
I have reviewed the resumes from some of these H1Bs and they don't even bother to change the company from the bozo they copied the experience from. "So tell me Sanjay, why did you implement Met Life's methodology in Cisco?"
The only thing that makes me madder than these immoral cheaters is the lazy Americans studying underwater basket weaving rather than Engineering.
+1 Been there and done that.
First time posting had hell of time logging on due to this tablet or that's my excuse anyway Great site thanks to all :)
In times of change learners inherit the earth; while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists.
~Eric Hoffer
applies well to all the bond fund managers with 20-30 yrs of experience who constantly try shorting Treasury duration expecting the rates to rise.......yeah, any minute now......
I've been maintaining a thesis that education is now a huge racket. Nevermind the unemployment situation etc, consider that nearly half say they will need to get MORE education to meet their career goals. ??? Really...more is the answer? So, the first tranche of four years out of your life didn't deliver and the solution is to...do more of the same. Einstein and his over-used definition of insanity notwithstanding, who benefits? The institutions do, they get more years and money, which helps out richly paid "administrators" and "tenured" as in un-firable professors...hmmmmm. In one of the greatest ironies to play out before us academia stands as the vangaurd for "deconstructionalism" aka the parasitic (and cowardly) murder of Western Civilization, yet, did academia (outside of hyper progressive PC) take this very same structural medicine...well no they didn't. Time to apply deconstructionalism to academia and hoist it into the dust bin of history...the internet and the freedom to access all knowledge has, today and right now, effectively made old academia utterly obsolete. If you believe in this and want to do something...all you need to do is tell your friends and family. The breaking points have already been pasted this is only a matter of time. The good news is that education may decentralize, so, making us all into neat little consumer as oppose to self-sufficient independent souls could be on the wane, which is a good thing.
I gave you a plus but was hoping I could figure out this part. "which is a good thing"
It is a combination of too much .gov intervention in EDU and too much tax/regs on BUS that has resulted in this paradigm.....too many 'educated' people and not enough jobs.
I'm a Phonics!
Fuck the elite, karma is going to bite them so fucking hard them in the ass they won't know what's happening. FUCK EM ALL.
Hiring Jizz Mopper interns, part time, medical worker uniform provided, no health care !
Was in PS on a job. Went to Target to buy a belt - saw a HS buddy working there at almost 60. He is a retired carpenter - guessing he needed a supplement for retirement pay. Not yet on SS.
Globalization has pushed the middle class in the US to the brink. The newly college educated are just symptomatic of the push to move jobs to other locals besides the US. Thank every president who bought into the global trade, fair trade, free trade, etc. It's now all about hollowing out the American middle class of every bit of prosperity we accumulated over the past century and passing it through to other nations who have not prospered.
Why else are tariffs never proposed to balance our trade deficits?
Tariffs would just kill an, already, sluggish economy. If the USA is now #2 economy and moving lower than we should stop spending our treasure and ammasing more debt to antagonize the rest of the world.
Bring the military home, revert back to an agrarian society and we can live in peace and help feed the world. If the Jews want to kill the other half of the planet then let them do it.
We should start a peaceful revolution by a simple means......stop shaving!!!!!!
I have started the revolution by not shaving! I have not shaved this year and I will not shave until the revolution topples this treasonous system.
University of Phoenix is where they go to learn a skill set .... after wasting four years in FEMA State !
African Transgender Studies major = Self-licking Ice Cream Cone..... CB
Twittertards wandering aimlessly, desperately seeking approval from their peers for doing nothing, contributing nothing and looking for a thesis that matches their life. So they gravitate not towards a purposeful endeavour but one that sucks the life out of everything all the while screaming about world peace, global warming and demanding that the government "do something"
Driving by one of the largest college campuses daily I see self seeking hoards of zombies, face stuck in thier smart "fonze" dragging their feet towards the nearest Buffalo Wild Wings or Panera's to set up their headquarters for the day to bond with make believe friends. "Todds eating chicken wings" "Kara is walking to get her nails done" "Rafon is bustin a nut on a white bitch" "Mike is washing his new Toyota, gift from parents" blah, blah blah.
Best comment of the day. This is what young people are wasting their time doing. Endlessly playing games on a phone/TV/computer instead of being productive.
I graduated high school during the last major recession. When I wanted a summer job I knocked on 1 door and that's all it took. They didn't even have an opening. They just liked me and my ambition. My friends all started out doing hard, manual labor - and worked their way up into management by being better and more reliable than the others. This was right after Volcker raised interest rates to 19%, so times were just as tough.
Stop being an entitlement wussy and get busy.
Best kept secreted of education is "civil engineering". If you take this major, you will be employed by .gov. Several years later, you can start your own 'real estate development' company taking part in .gov project(using your old connections). I knew many of them getting rich this way.
The problem is that there is a fake education, designed to maintain a fake democracy.
That has become a runaway vicious spiral, during the history that made War Kings, then morphed to make Fraud Kings. Governments were created by the selection pressures that fashioned the best organized gangs of criminals, which were later the platforms to enable the best of the best, the biggest gangsters, the banksters, to covertly take over control of the powers of governments.
Thereby, the power to rob, and the power to kill to back up that robbery, gradually were assembled and channelled. In theory, We the People, through a democratic republic, operating its rule of law, are supposed to direct the powers of governments. In practice, about 99% of the powers of governments have already been effectively privatized, mostly by enabling private banks to create the money supply out of nothing, as debts.
Those processes then ran amok, throughout every social institution. The foundations built on the profits from the banksters' frauds were able to buy up effective influence and control over the social institutions which were supposed to provide education and research functions, so that we more and more ended up with a fake education, suited to maintaining a fake democracy.
"Citizens" were reduced to primarily becoming consumers of bullshit. Young people were deliberately drowned by bullshit when they went to school. Skillful lying by omission made sure that people did not learn anything that really mattered. Instead, they were pumped full of bullshit. Thus, the PROBLEM is that the principle of democracy ought to be education. The role of citizens ought to be to supervise the uses of the powers of their government to rob and to kill. Instead, those powers were more and more effectively privatized, while those who gained that power from their triumphant frauds were able to reinvest some of their profits from frauds in more frauds, by increasingly buying up political control over public powers, such as control over public education.
The primary thing that school ought to do is teach citizens about death controls. Those are what direct the debt controls, and therefore, every other economic decision regarding what gets done, or does not get done. Citizens that become reduced to being Zombie Sheeple, who are consumers of bullshit, receive an "education" that is appropriate to them fulfilling those roles within the established social systems.
THIS ARTICLE IS NOT TRULY LOOKING AT THE UGLY SIDE OF EDUCATION. These two articles ARE looking at the relatively good versus the relatively bad, regarding education, but they are NOT looking at the truly ugly. Of course, our real system is debt slavery, backed by the power of governments to legalize its lies and violence. Therefore, the primary expression of our fake education is to drive more and more young people into conditions of debt slavery, inside of contexts where they have less and less really better choices. The alternatives between a "good" education versus a "bad" education within those established systems are ALL superficial bullshit, because that system as a whole is UGLY runaway social insanities, where the necessary death controls are actually done through the maximum possible deceits. Therefore, the citizens are taught the minimum possible truth about the real death controls.
The ONLY good theoretical solutions would be to have better educated citizens, that used their powers to control the government, so that the social robberies and murders would be better done. The good theory is to make the democratic republic work, through the rule of law. However, the established systems are already about 99% completely corrupted and therefore CRAZY! Since those things are already so extremely unbalanced, and automatically getting worse, the chances of people becoming better educated, so that they will be better citizens, appear to be slim to none, since that seems to require a series of political miracles.
Meanwhile, what is happening is that young people continue to be brainwashed to believe in the biggest bullies' bullshit social stories, and the only actual alternatives that those young people have is to maybe get a "better job" within these established systems built on runaway triumphant financial frauds, driving the overall destruction of the society that they were born into. Due to the almost totally accomplished take over of the government by the best organized gang of criminals, along with the reduction of most citizens to become nothing more than bullshit consumers, the younger you are, the more you are being lied to, cheated and robbed by the system you were born into. The only apparent choices you have are to struggle to swim up, in the overall context of that toilet bowel society flushing your life down the drain. THAT is the truly ugly aspect of "education!"
the best thing that ever happened to me was the reagan recession and an old jewish wholesaler. i was the child prodigy graduating from high school with 6 college credits at a time when that was unheard of. got a degree in economics and set out to forecast heating oil consumption an area of the usa. gooks were pretty low on the totem pole back then and i found myself out of a job in 1980(?). i realized then i did not want to put my fate in the hands of another person or persons ever again. i dabbled aound and ran into an old jewish wholesaler with a strong yiddish accent and we talked about acquiring money. he told me all you need to know is the 3% rule. in his accent i can hear to this day he said. "you buy something for 1% and you sell it for 3%. you do that and you make money." he taught me two things in that instant. one is you don't need to know shit to make money. you just need to know how shit works. the second thing was that there is opportunity all around you. you just need to buy it at 1% and sell it for 3%.
another funny story. i went back to school after a divorce, broke, thinking i may have to get a job. a local self made millionaire gave a talk about how he built his business literally from a hot dog cart to a wendy's franchisee. the academic director of the business school had a dba(doctorate of business administration) from harvard and was asking him some really esoteric questions about specific operation metrics and the guy really had no idea what the dba was talking about. the millionaire only had a high school education and still had a strong new jersey street accent. some kid in the audience asked him if he would have made more money if he went to college. his response was, " i don't know, but i would have understood what this guy was talking about" while pointing at the dba. the place cracked up. that was the best lesson of the day.
To learn a skill would be to infer that one would use that skill in a work type environment. I think the term "work" is where the disconnect occurs. The desired positions are ones where they are called upon to consult, to advise or possibly contribute pithy ideas, but not to actually have a position of responsibility to do something that could possibly be judged or evaluated. Teaching in its modern interpretation has become the ideal occupation. To judge without being judged. How can you do better than that? And have lifetime job security to boot. I, being the fool I am, build furniture for a living and find myself judged on a higher level than a surgeon. Doctors have people die on them constantly and they still get paid. Well at least i can at least get a do-over I suppose, on my nickel of course!
Students are not taught to slove problems. If they show up all year, they are exempt from writing the final. If they don't like their mark they bitch to the Dean. Its all an overpriced baby sitting service (High School). And post secondary - a nice friendly place to find yourself. Fact is, its almost impossible to distinguish "candidates" based on transcripts or cover letters. Everybody is an A+ student! You need almost to administer your own exam just to be sure. In addition, salary expectations.........ridiculous. And forget value added - "what's my job, and when do i get paid?"
So, we hire based on attitude - attitude is everything. We can teach them what they don't know (which seems to be increasing as each year rolls by). But, if they do not understand concepts of self ownerhsip, commitment to initiative, innovation, and improvement, then we're not interested.
Personally, I don't know why ANYBODY is going to school anymore and paying foreducation anyways (unless its a techincal school) because, I just went through the Internet and found ALL the cirriculuum for a 4 year economics degree (this saying nothing about the integrity or credibility of the material).
I know, people will say, "if you don't have the paper, you won't be eligible to apply." That, is sort of true. But, it is increasingly becoming less true as employers start to realize that the value that is supposed to be present in a University graduate, simply isn't there, with the exception of a few.
Like COMEX, I expect formalized higher education to become essentially irrelevant.
I doubt any young person with aspirations of attending Yale, or whatever is going to appreciate that. But, its how I look at it, and well, I'm doing the hiring.
Obamacare's tax hike train wreck....
http://www.atr.org/obamacares-tax-hike-train-wreck-a7587
Look the HELL out....
This was something that was pondered on earlier down at the river. In America today, the poor college kid that normally comes out further behind than ahead, really has no future in America as long as the wicked criminals are pushing all the control and manipulation buttons for personal gains. As long as this corruption and criminality is running the world-ship into the rocks is at the helm, these kids have nothing but a DRAFT NOTICE to look forward to so they too can go die for isreal, and their murderous globalist bankster squid empire of dust. There is no way in kingdom come that these kids can safely and responsibly plan white picket fences, babies, and all that was once the dream of middle-class American success. It is gone. No mas. This is exemplified by the glaring examples of those long lines of people standing there to get a night stocking job at wally-world. You have the Ph D's competing with the BS and BA degrees for jockeying positions at the front of these lines. From the 200-300 applicants, the two job positions usually go to someone who is in the wally-world management's local family.
Yes, sad indeed, but they were warned what would happen, and like those lemmings in boston, most cheered on the "change" and ignored those who told them, Ron Paul was America's last chance. He was the closest to a real statesman and probably the last America will ever see. That was contingent on whether or not he actually would bring all our troops home, close 900 military bases all over the world, and spend all that money saved on that waste in rebuilding the infrastructure of America, and the old time craftsmanship arts. Remember, Made in the USA? Bring back apprentices! It is all possible still, believe it or not. The time to clean house is close. MaaT is seated, her scales a waiting.
Meanwhile, for your entertainment purposes, please share this enlightening movie below with the would-be aspiring dreamer that thinks they would actually get any higher education in a collage at all. The time would be better spent in just an hour a day here on ZH. This is where all good hearts come to share their Higher Light, and the very educational words of wisdom. Bless them all, and give thanks. Gratitude feeds the wheel of good fortune.
The Collage Conspiracy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EKolPL5Cdc
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"Wise statesmen ... established these great self-evident truths, that when in the distant future some man, some faction, some interest, should set up the doctrine that none but rich men, or none but white men, were entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, their posterity should look up again at the Declaration of Independence and take courage to renew the battle which their fathers began...."
-- Abraham Lincoln
"look up again at the Declaration of Independence and take courage to renew the battle which their fathers began...."
-- Abraham Lincoln
That Lincoln sure liked war...was there more railroad money to his heirs in this event? (to his credit, unlike so many politicians today, Lincoln had briefly fought for the Ill militia, as I recall, so war was not so abstract to him as it is to the political class generally, today)
It's kind of sad listening to these employment stories of college grads. How different things used to be. I remember university in the sixties. In the spring a lot of the Fortune 500 corporations would set up booth on campus. They would practically beg graduates to join their firms. True, this was an Ivy League school. But still there was a job for anyone who wanted one. There was a down side of course. Such as the draft and Viet Nam you had to deal with. Also, many corporations weren't interested in hiring women.
Good thing the price of an entry level house is also dropping.
Wait.
"The old fuckers just won't retire or die!" - quotes from many, many people.
An now, with an aging population that's increasingly desperate about its household solvency, these same people have pressured the politicians to ban "age discrimination", by banning Mandatrory Retirement at age 65.
Newsflash for stupid Government: If you re-instated the Mandatory Retirement, you'd have lower youth unemployment, better/self-financed young families with children, instead of being on welfare. The down-side is that the bankrupt fiscal and monetary system becomes exposed, as the huge numbers of retired people (who just refuse to die) keep increasing.
How ironic that we go to such great lengths to keep very old and unhealthy people alive with extreme medicine and technology, but are so quick to send the young one off to war -- to get maimed and killed. What's wrong with this picture?
Maybe 'term limits' should be imposed on more than politicians and bureaucrats. At some point (past age 80) just simple medical tech should be used to prolong life. Beyond that, it's up to you and your Maker. Unless you can afford it out of your own pocket, the young do not 'owe' you $8000/day to hang around in semi-limbo while lining the pocket of the Health Business Industry -- and it IS and "industry", or has become so. If simple care and basic medicine won't keep you alive, then maybe it's time you got that ultimate "promotion" and finally had that "Come to Jesus meeting" -- literally.
As my 80+ father noted a few years ago: "If old people, the Ministers, Priests, Cardinals and the Pope are so close to Jesus, and life is such a sinful 'veil of tears' down here, then how come they don't take the 'promotion' first chance they get? And how come they take such extraordinary measures to keep even the Pope alive?" All good questions. With no good answers.
[Spoken as someone in the 55-80 group.]
Until progressives got involved that was the way it was. You worked and saved for old age. Not just to move to Florida but to survive. Now everyone is ENTITLED to everything...food, housing, education and of course healthcare. Now that we are so entitled, we can't afford much of anything.
And, why bother saving when the Fed will just take it from you via ZIRP/inflation and hand it right over to Wall Street?
Yep, they driving us back into the markets as the only hedge against inflation, just in time to take it all.
I apologise for the political incorrectness, but just for discussion, from an employer secret point of view that thinks that the older whiter demographics is more productive than the current young less white demographics this graph could be explained. Employers do not really care about race, age, college education, religion, etc. . They care about profits and who they think will help them make profits.
Drug and gun-running along with money laundering are still growth industries but it really helps to have a Govt. imprimatur to succeed.
DEA, CIA, FBI, etc.
Nice thing I like is all the pretty coeds are looking for older Sugar Daddies because they are out of work, so my buddies tell me.
Are you a Sugar Daddy looking for a Sugar Baby. Check it out.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/more-students-turning-to-sugar-daddies-to...
http://www.sugardaddymeet.com/
it never changes...pussy has value, cocks are worthless.
A friend of a friend is a gay escort... his cock is worth more than most of the pink tacos out there.
Until its old, flaccid and diseased. I run a lot of HIV viral loads on these guys and they have some sad stories. Not as glamorous as you think. 90% of them have serious drug problems as well. They burn out quick.
Miffed:-)
I think you hit it on the 'head'.
THat skank so called 'teen mom' just got paid 1 million for doing a prono , what she would probably do for $19.95+tax off camera.
I'll pay YOU not to have to see it.
You can get a lot from these skanks for nothing more than a burger combo at McDonalds.
Yes you can. We call it GC, chlamydia trachomatis, HPV and HBV. STDs are a microbiologists bread and butter.
Miffed;-)
It's not so much college vs. no college as the sense that we're being lied to. America needs big doses of honesty, but I don't think it can handle it yet.
Sehr schlecht.
The kids should have gotten old instead of a college education. hujel
Thats how I played it!
In a bankster run economy, you are what you can borrow. And just like all debt devalues in this realm of free money, you are worth less and less each passing day.
Office politics plays a much larger role than anyone seems to care to mention in who gets hired and who gets fired. "You're unproductive" - if a manager says it, it becomes true. Doesn't matter if you carry all the weight. "Your numbers don't look good". Yeah, but what if a manager sabotages you? What if a coworker does. It's not linear like Corporate America would have you believe. A relative of mine works in a high position at a big tech firm. He is by far the most qualified, but is inhibited by an incompetent boss, who places no value in the talents of his employees, but rather insulates himself by having other incompetent employees around him. Much is taken for granted when it comes to work. They say the free market filters out the bad players but I see none of that. Investors can still be bilked, management can still be bought. And the customer has no recourse because there is no competition. It's a kleptocracy, or worse. Meritocracy. What a bunch of bull shit
The problem is that Accenture's part of the problem - with their guest worker fraud and general contribution towards less stable/secure work arrangements.
The arrival of Accenture at any organization is a bad omen. I worked for the Information Systems department of large Agri-food business in Canada that brought in Accenture "co-sourcing" I'd say about half of them were stand-up guys who knew their stuff, but you had to wonder if the other half had any experience at all. The overseas resources were completely unreliable, and barely spoke English.
Our CIO was formerly an Accenture partner, so I bought one share of Accenture, and demanded a shareholder's list to see if I could find his name on it. I didn't find his name so the deal only smelled funny. I couldn't actually find any proof of "conflict of interest"
It sure was fun looking though.
Interesting. How do you describe stable/secure work arrangements? A job forever? A level playing field? What is guest worker fraud?
TY in advance for further elaboration and assistance in understanding.
Measured by the excellent comments from the peanut gallery this article series is great! A slave of confirmation bias, I follow the herd off the cliff with my pontification on the theme of the value of a formal education in a traditional setting and outcomes in the real world.
To that end I plug the Khan Academy: http://www.khanacademy.org/ .
More children should be taught the art of self empowerment, of thoughtful systems they learn and choose to play for fun, self provisioning. More adults too.
I never graduated from high school, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out, but if we need one to solve a problem I got one on my team.
It’s complicated.
Some American people bitch about H1B visas and Indian programmers taking over the world and the like, taking away peoples jobs. Having worked with them, finding for the most part superbly trained and capable people who were great team assets, I tip my hat to em.
Same for many: American programmers, the ones from Africa, China, Thailand, Canada, Mexico, etc.
Change endeavors of high complexity and broad impact require many teams of people with different skill sets and temperament.
Having the best talent on a team increases your probability of success and reduces time to implementation.
Ways are needed to bring more young people onto the IT projects I’m doing now.
Unfortunately, they are missing from the mix of the work world.
Summer vacation adventures:
I will create a proposal to spin a number of young people up over summer vacation to help my company implement a project.
Four positions @ $25/hr. 17 – 25 YO with capability: one associated with the Board or Management Team who can code good (nothing like skin in the game for 1%) next a good gamer hacker who understands databases and can pass a heavy background check (may be a 1%er in which case there is still another position to fill), a good business analyst or someone who has talent and would like to give it a whirl, someone with a penchant for finance and is handy with Excel and VBA or C code.
Will likely save the company $25/hr. over the one person needed to hire.
What do you think about that?
A whole bunch of SPEDS.
I disagree, If you mean by this Speicial Educational Students - Slow Learners, etc.
Your tone and casting is disrespectful to young people in my view, and one of the reasons reality is so underoptomized.
Go long on young people if you wish to have a good old age. A sounder footing of existance.
Or just call em SPEDS, sure all the smart ones will want to be hanging with you in years to come.
I would not if I were young and I were me.
But then I'm just a SPEDS.
Having been associated with the engineering department of a huge and highly rated university for many years and being in a high tech business I can tell you a few things about business and universities.
1) The engineering students are mostly "cut and pasters." They can't think and take little interest in their field.
2) Industry almost ignores the college. The best universities are turning out morons and junior colleges are turining out some of the best engineers.
3) GPA is a useless indicator.
4) Hobbies are the best indicator of the worth of an engineer. If the applicant builds micros at home, knows the insides of an FPGA, or builds model airplanes he/she is the best.
5) The absolute lowest quality graduating engineers are not getting jobs and are going on to get their masters because they don't have anything better to do.
6) Admissions to the best engineering schools are determined by bureaucrats interested in promoting women, minorities, the underserved, maimed, poor, and any group lacking engineering credentials.
Tax and other dollars at work in poor form.
Let us not ask in outrage "What have I been sold" when getting what we paid for, rather be calm and ask "What have I bought?"
Nice presentation of your analysis and view.
I like # 4) "Hobbies are the best indicator of the worth of an engineer. If the applicant builds micros at home, knows the insides of an FPGA, or builds model airplanes he/she is the best."
Using this knowledge where and how may we change up the sytem to better purpose?
TY!
STOP Posting these bad employment stats (again) that are completely misleading! Unless your goal is to create a mob against an age group based on your distorted data. It makes you no better than the central planners.
Just because 20 million baby boomers moved from the "under 55" category to the "over 55" category does not mean they took 15 million new jobs! Same old jobs, they're just moving to a different age bucket. And as they move over 55, the under 55 "bucket" actaully shrunk, EVEN with the new young being added at the bottom. This means any job count by historical age is completely distorted. Stick with the participation rates or employment-population ratio by age group to see the truth. Then you'll see in the population-employment ratio in the 55+ age group is the same as it was in 2008. But even the 55+ age group is misleading due to the high rate of deaths, increased longevity, and the civilian institutional population, aka, senior homes for the elderly factors. So the 55+ ratio should always naturally incline, thus a flat growth is really a decline in the natural behavior of the ratio for the 55+ age group. In the end a properly interpreted stat analysis of the ratios will reveal that NO age group has really recovered since 2008.
55 is the new 25. Bitchez! :>) good night all!
Cheese Wiz, Dip, Funny.
DAPPLoma Dapplause Debtploma
Dipthongs. Kinda windy, gonna blackout pretty soon.
Hadda little trouble drivin the 5 (Ca) today.
Must be close to million credit hours granted for queer studies, womens studies, ethnic studies and kazoo music studies every semester that do more to destroy a mind than to improve one.