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Guest Post: This Is What It Means To Be Free In America

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man blog,

I really hate to be negative... but this is positively revolting. Disgusting. Indescribably offensive.

In the Land of the Free recently, a California couple had their child kidnapped by the state. At gunpoint.

It all started in mid-April when Anna and Alex Nikolayev took their 5-month old son Sammy to the hospital in Sacramento to be treated for flu symptoms.

The parents didn’t particularly care for the treatment that their son was receiving. Doctors were pumping him full of antibiotics and soon began talking about performing surgery.

Anna and Alex argued with the doctors and said that they were going to get a second opinion; they took the baby and went to another hospital where another physician deemed it perfectly safe for the child to return home with his parents without the need for surgery.

The next day, with the family resting comfortably at home, the police showed up with Child Protective Services.

Alex, the father, went outside to talk to them where he was thrown to the ground by police. Officers then relieved him of his house keys and proceeded to let themselves into the house with hands on their pistols.

Then, still with their hands on their pistols, they told the mother “I’m going to grab your baby, and don’t resist and don’t fight me…”

Police take away baby This is what it means to be Free in America

The child was then ripped from his mother’s arms and placed into state custody, where he remained for a week.

Yesterday, a Sacramento County judge ordered that Sammy be transferred to a hospital in Palo Alto (120 miles away), and that his parents finally be given unfettered access to their son... under the condition that the State of California’s Child Protective Services continue to monitor the ‘situation’.

Guns. Cops. Government bureaucrats. Courts. Kidnapping. A dysfunctional medical care system.

This is what it means to be in the Land of the Free... where collecting rainwater, consuming raw milk, or seeking a second opinion on your child’s medical care is now criminalized.

When you don’t even have the basic right to make decisions about your own child... and when your own child can be forced from you at gunpoint in your own home that was entered illegally... you know that freedom has officially hit the waste bin of history.

Perhaps the greatest irony is that the parents are originally from Russia... but they had to come to the United States to find the Soviet Union.

Have you hit your breaking point yet? If not now, when?

 


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Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:03 | Link to Comment TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Took their son to the hospital to be treated for flu symptoms....  First mistake....

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:11 | Link to Comment sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

Doctors, just like Nobel prize-winning economists, can get very offended when you question their judgement (God complex).  What ensued thereafter was the expressed power that such professionals in all their arrogance hold in our society.

 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:14 | Link to Comment Western
Western's picture

I hope people remember the next generation will be 10x more complicit in this tyrranical killing spree.. the brainwashing at all levels of education is unbelievable.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:19 | Link to Comment Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

irony is that this was America when the story reads as if it were the old Soviet Russia

talk about a role reversal

the only reason they got junior back from the CPS  was it was set to become an international incident with the Russian consulate getting involved

 

CPS is all powerful sort of like when you are at the counter at immigration - a no mans land where they can do whatever the fuck they want

 

or how about this dude that was detained because he did not flush on the airplane

http://articles.philly.com/2013-04-30/news/38905649_1_flight-attendant-v...

 

no really

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:21 | Link to Comment hapless
hapless's picture

Starve the state until the air is filled with the stench of the rotting apparatchik.

 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:38 | Link to Comment DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Sacramento County is going to be that much closer to bankruptcy. This story is in Sacramento and it involves Russian immigrants, what is the mob connection? Decent chance there is one.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:54 | Link to Comment negative rates
negative rates's picture

Okay I admit it, First, I stole candy from the six year old. And even worse, I stole some cheese from a sixteen year olds sweet sixteen party. And thirdly, I don't feel bad about it, thier mind tricked their body and they were gonna be on the first shuttle to jupiter or saturn, if they didn't try to leave the place all together. So cry all you want flatlanders, and enjoy it while it lasts.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:15 | Link to Comment jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

cops doctors, teachers, courts, msm, non organic food...the main stream in this country is to be avoided at all costs

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:48 | Link to Comment Muddy1
Muddy1's picture

"doctors"

I was driving to the bank today to withdraw my monthly insult check, buy silver, F the banksters, etc.  Anyway, Beck was talking about his sister going to the Dr. recently and he did ask if there were guns in the home.  I knew this question was coming, now it is here.  My wife and daughters have been instructed to say no.  Then we'll find another doctor.  Our nation has indeed been 'Fundamentally changed", or fundamentally F'd.

Not all teachers are to be avoided.  My child is a teacher who loves the kiddos and they love her.  She would like to be able to teach, and not be the fostercaresocialworkerCPSpsychologistmommyetc all rolled into one.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:09 | Link to Comment jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

for a bureaucrat it all comes down to one thing.  a days pay.  that and the wait to vest that coffee break into a pension.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:15 | Link to Comment cifo
cifo's picture

How can't you love Simon Black?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:41 | Link to Comment HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

In Revolutionary America, the people dealt with the oppressive government.

In Soviet America, the oppressive government deals with you!!!

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 03:20 | Link to Comment Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

We need more details about this incident because last time I took my child to the hospital, they told me that they will not do anything unless I sign a consent for treatment.

Just because we are not paranoid, it does not mean they are not out to get us. s/

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 06:06 | Link to Comment jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

i just reread the article carefully.  you're right, it reads like a sandy hook/boston marathon script. designed to provoke a response (hopefully violent).  none of it makes any sense.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:32 | Link to Comment rehypothecator
rehypothecator's picture

The words "boundary violation" shuts them up, although it might possibly also be used to construe an answer in the affirmative.  

 

Then again, legal liability is something they know about.  In which case, there is this: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/downloads/gundocform.pdf 

 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 21:17 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

I'm pretty sure we're still allowed to fart as loud as we want in a crowded theater though.

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 02:39 | Link to Comment Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

There are certain rules that one does not break. Farting audibly in a crowded theatre is one and the other that is a complete no-no is the small shower cubicle. The space shuttle another. Teararseist!

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 06:27 | Link to Comment August
August's picture

" My wife and daughters have been instructed to say no.  Then we'll find another doctor."

Good approach.  Personally, I'd wait a year, and then write a letter to the offending doctor and tell him exactly what you think of him and his exciting new role of Stooge for the Central State.  Personally, I'd make the letter polite, but include some veiled threatening language as well.....  Well, maybe not "threatening" exactly, but vaguely ominous.....

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:22 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

To all the Alex Jones haters, he has been talking about this for YEARS.  These types of assaults and kidnappings are daily occurrences. 

The one that really pissed me off was the one in Florida where the parents, the Hakkens (accused of smoking dope and attending an anti-government tea party event) had their two boys taken by CPS and given to the wife's parents.   The actual parents re-kidnapped their kids and sailed to Cuba to flee the USSA.  Now they are back and in jail.  Here is a link to some of the story:  http://reason.com/blog/2013/04/03/anti-government-couple-on-run-after-kidn

 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 21:49 | Link to Comment erg
erg's picture

What's more, what happens to these children when they are brought into the clutches of the system? They're probably lucky if they only get SSRIs shovelled into them.

Watch Rumsfeld get grilled about Dyncorp's involvement in child prostitution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvLL--vSsA

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:55 | Link to Comment Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

I read your post and decided I've just had my eyes farted upon.  

Take the off the bucket list.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:57 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Nobel prize winners don't drive around maybachs acting like gods while state provides job protection like doctors who do it for the money.

But there are many stupid parents of far inferior judgement than doctors.

Doctors can lose license due to malpractice, shitty parents get tax deduction no matter how the child turns out.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:44 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

It comes down to one simple question:

Whose children are they?

Aldous, what say you?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 21:37 | Link to Comment erg
erg's picture

This MSNBC collectivist suggests that you do not own your own kids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3qtpdSQox0

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 22:21 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

My wife shit a brick when I showed her that before.

pods

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 23:02 | Link to Comment Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

You don't "own" your kids.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 23:17 | Link to Comment erg
erg's picture

We only own ourselves. As it should be. And that's a difficult task for most in and of itself.

I bespeak the sinister nature of collectivism. I've heard it suggested that kids stay in school year-round as they are no longer needed on the farm. Extend the school day to ten hours. Hell, assign them all a bunk and they can just crash at the school.

More education is better for the children right?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 23:31 | Link to Comment buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

Yes, you basically do own your kids, for all practical purposes (I have two girls). You're ultimately responsible for their upkeep and abandoning them is worse than abandoning 'regular property' - you can leave the keys in your car with the windows down on any MLK Blvd, but try leaving your kids there.

The flip side, of course, is that you can't do whatever you want with them, so they aren't 'property' in the real sense. But in that sense, there really is no such thing as property any longer: If you want to own anything of value there are conditions attached, like taxes, licensing, and mainenance. The only thing of value you can really own today, and do whatever you want with, is an unborn human being. You have a greater right to them as property than you do to your own body (suicide being illegal, abortion being venerated).

 

 

 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 22:10 | Link to Comment PeakOil
PeakOil's picture

deleted

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:12 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Ha, let us know how your prison term works out if your saying don't pay your taxes.  Their must be a better way than to allow them to ride roughshod while we slowly go broke, starve and then become incarcerated while we show them who has the power of the purse.  Great plan..

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:19 | Link to Comment Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

"Guns. Cops. Government bureaucrats. Courts. Kidnapping. A dysfunctional medical care system"

You can call that Communism, California style.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:39 | Link to Comment Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Rule #1: Never talk or answer to the Fascist Police State.  EVER!

Rule #2: See rule #1.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:00 | Link to Comment jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

cops are strangers.  you don't have to talk to them.  only one question...am i free to go?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:10 | Link to Comment YukonJake
YukonJake's picture

Do you know why I pulled you over?

I'd love to help you officer, but I have things to do, so can I go or will you be detaining me?

Where are you headed?

I'd love to help you officer, but I have things to do, so can I go or will you be detaining me?

 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:16 | Link to Comment jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

"how would you like a night stick up your ass, fratboy"?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 23:09 | Link to Comment freedogger
freedogger's picture

Say hi to millions on youtube oficer. Well I don't believe it can be deleted or confiscated, the video is already in the cloud.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:50 | Link to Comment Esso
Esso's picture

It's happening here in Indiana too. A neighbor had their children removed by CPS because they refused some needless and expensive dental procedure on their daughter's baby teeth.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:03 | Link to Comment HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

Hang Pence, please.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:08 | Link to Comment daveO
daveO's picture

I'm guessing Medicaid was involved, both cases. If you agree to be a ward (slave) of the state, you shouldn't be surprised when you're treated like one.

That being said, Doctors, even Veterinarians, are lying crooks, these days. I took a cat to the Vet. for an abscess from a fight, and the clown starting talking about mammary cancer on a 2 yr old male! I couldn't believe my ears. You can't trust Doctors.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:16 | Link to Comment Esso
Esso's picture

Medicaid was not involved in my neighbor's case.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:37 | Link to Comment Drachma
Drachma's picture

Males actually do have rudimentary, underdeveloped mammary glands. Part of that appendage is a male's nipple. Cheers.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:12 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

 

"Guns. Cops. Government bureaucrats. Courts. Kidnapping. A dysfunctional medical care system"

the new amrkn model of "family care" that includes "armed cops" taking direction from "government bureaucrats" herding everyone into a "dysfunctional medical care system" - particular emphasis on children/babies. . .

seriously dudes, have you not seen this coming, not at all??

with some team voting for pre-baby personhoods, how do you suppose THAT will be enForced?

all up in yer business, and it won't just be the wombs, everyBody is invited to this Party.

CONTROL, pre-cradle to grave.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:47 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

"Nanny State" has real meaning. When the State decides to be nanny, it means it. It WILL be your nanny, your kids' nanny, your parent's nanny and you will do as you are told.

Does anyone doubt that the State...and I mean the good ole USA, 'Merikan State believes that it owns you, your property and your kids? This is what a century of progessivism gets you, regressivism.

Imagine if they had bought the kid a "big gulp". They'd probably be on death row.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:27 | Link to Comment HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

But I heard "they hate us for our freedom"

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:28 | Link to Comment McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

That's why the authorities are working so hard to eliminate it.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:40 | Link to Comment Jay Gould Esq.
Jay Gould Esq.'s picture

Sickening as it may appear at face value, how sad and true indeed.

+1

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:10 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Looks like they won't hate us for much longer.

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 00:58 | Link to Comment mkkby
mkkby's picture

Not that I trust dot gov -- I voted Ron Paul and nothing else.  But not one person is questioning the veracity of this story.  Maybe the doctors saw whip or burn marks on the kid.  Maybe he looked like he'd been molested sexually. 

Are we just taking Simon Black's word, as if he has no axe to grind?  Sad that there aren't more free thinkers on ZH.

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 05:16 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The case has been in the press in both the US and Russia, and in the courts, where CPS had the opportunity to present ANY and ALL of the evidence that CPS had gathered or could fabricate, and that didn't come up... ergo FUCK CPS (and their families too).

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:40 | Link to Comment SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

I'm cool with detaining people that forget to flush, have you seen the public bathrooms in CA? 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:37 | Link to Comment Muddy1
Muddy1's picture

California, POS state

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:23 | Link to Comment ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Did they get the kid back?

Are they still in Sacramento or even California at this point?  WHY WHY WHY?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:15 | Link to Comment Major Major Major
Major Major Major's picture

"A gramme is better than a damn."

 

-AH

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:51 | Link to Comment Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

. . . the brainwashing at all levels of education is unbelievable.

How right you are.  But it's only going to get worse as the "Birth to Pre-K" education plan is implemented.  No, I'm not joking.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 21:39 | Link to Comment imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

. . . the brainwashing at all levels of education is unbelievable.

Brainwashed educators brainwashing next generations.  It has achieved critical mass.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:05 | Link to Comment Mr. Saxby
Mr. Saxby's picture

So that's what they're doing in public schools these days. I've been wondering because it sure as hell isn't education. THe dumbing down process has been taken way too far.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:42 | Link to Comment Cursive
Cursive's picture

@Mr. Saxby

"We're doing this for the children!"

- future Leninists and Trotskyites of the World

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:04 | Link to Comment BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

Is there a legal defense fund for these people? Why have not the Civil Liberties Union, et al, not become involved. The hospital officials, child services officials and police need all to be arrested and tried for kidnapping, child endagerment, malpractice, etc. Let's get organized and take these folks to the cleaners. Get them fired and take all their money. Certainly we have some attorneys on this site.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:18 | Link to Comment Z'
Z''s picture

The Rutherford Institute is probably overworked these days, but this seems right up their alley.  Not sure if they have CA connections, they are based in Charlottesville, VA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutherford_Institute

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:51 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

That is the salt in all our open wounds, for if they do get "taken to the cleaner" they will merely shove a gun in another groups back and take it.

The state, by definition, does not have what is not taken first.

pods

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:50 | Link to Comment caconhma
caconhma's picture

My fellow Americans,

I was born in the Soviet Union and lived under the Stalin regime. It was a totalitarian and sadistic regime but even there such things that happened in California never took place.

There were Laws in NAZI Germany. If you were not an opponent of the Nazi regime, you were relatively safe.

What took place in California is neither Communism nor Fascism. It is much worst. It is a life under an enemy occupation.

 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:12 | Link to Comment Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

The American Medical Mafia.

Enter this healthcare nightmare at your own peril.  In view of the private, for profit prison system that is allowed -- nay, encouraged -- should we really be surprised?

And how can I get out of here without mentioning the tyranical IRS....

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 21:20 | Link to Comment mirac
mirac's picture

only was to get out of the IRS sutuation is to leave the country and renounce your American Citizenship...I recommend it highly-and bring your guns, whereever you go you will still need them

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:15 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I have family in China, too and as long as you don't cross the State this stuff never happens. It is odd but I think the average Chicom lives freer on a daily basis than us "free" people in America and the West.

I met a Soviet defector, too and he could not believe the direction we are taking. He wanted to scream at America. He says he is too old and tired to run again.

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 07:26 | Link to Comment debtandtaxes
debtandtaxes's picture

....but ....but....what about the c h i l d r e n!!!

It is easy to hide evil in the guise of protecting the innocent.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:44 | Link to Comment donsluck
donsluck's picture

Yeah, Nazis were BIG on laws. Like taking Jewish property. Like performing medical experiments on gypsies, etc. All perfectly legal.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 21:09 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Their medical professionals wer into Accelerated Darwinism:  Genetically 'defective' children were taken to state health institutions (usually to the relief of the over-burdened parents), where they invariable died some months later -- of some 'illnes' or 'complication'.  That's why Germany had very few people after the war, who had genetically-caused birth defects.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:56 | Link to Comment Saint Pitbull
Saint Pitbull's picture

Obamstercare is gonna take care of this doc.  Just wait.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:19 | Link to Comment vjmali
vjmali's picture

There! Didn't have to wait for Oboma pulled in to this.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:11 | Link to Comment daveO
daveO's picture

They didn't name the Doc., did they? If they had a Mooslim name, or were of a protected minority, then they will keep their job. 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:22 | Link to Comment ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Your children are not "yours", they belong to the collective.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 23:04 | Link to Comment Kprime
Kprime's picture

u didn't make that kid, we did.

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 04:23 | Link to Comment Random
Random's picture

Fuck doctors! How the fuck can you trust someone with your life when they can't cure themselves? Oncologists dying of cancer, how fucked up is that?! Also who the fuck tought it a good idea to remove organs, as a CURE?!

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:08 | Link to Comment Colonel
Colonel's picture

...In Sactown which is the capital. Lot's of goobermint there.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:16 | Link to Comment Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

You have to live here to fully comprehend the insanity of it. The state legislature is about to approve having non-citizens sit on juries. I'd be gone in a NY minute but the old woman won't leave.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:25 | Link to Comment Colonel
Colonel's picture

Like AAPL they are only programmed to receive.

"You can checkout any time you like,
But you can never leave!"

And she said 'we are all just prisoners here, of our own device'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUbTW928sMU

 

 

 

 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:36 | Link to Comment HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Gringo Viejo:  "You have to live here to fully comprehend the insanity of it. The state legislature is about to approve having non-citizens sit on juries. I'd be gone in a NY minute but the old woman won't leave."

A woman family member I know is a 60s 'liberal' type and totally clueless. Now she wants to move outta state to Idaho where they have less taxes and the cost of living is lower. She has absolutely no idea that people with attitudes like hers created the kind of environment where now she wants to leave.

Personally with the attitudes and insanity shown in your state, things are going to implode when the economy takes its inevitable dive downward. Wouldnt be causht living in your state, especially under those conditions. Sometimes a man has to do what a man has to do and wear the pants in the family.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:43 | Link to Comment Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

@ HardAssets

Read you loud and clear. Have resigned myself to my fate which I assume will be dying trying to defend her when the barbarian horde begins to make its way out here to the burbs. But then, I'm an old jarhead and it always went with the territory.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:11 | Link to Comment HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Gringo Viejo - - - good luck my friend !  Jarhead, I wish you the best.

I was a squid, but spent a little bit of time in the gator navy carting you guys around in the Amtraks on the way to the beaches. The jarheads I met were good guys, even though some of them did puke a lot when the seas got a little rough !   :)

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:21 | Link to Comment Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

@ HA

LMAO.....I was one of the pukers. But I was a freakin' heartbreaker on solid ground. My best to you also friend...

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:35 | Link to Comment WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

That was me leaving my STEAK AND EGGS behind.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:42 | Link to Comment HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

WAMO556: "That was me leaving my STEAK AND EGGS behind."

lol !   Well there were some good things about being a squid.  We got decent hot meals and carted our cots around with us and didnt have to sleep in foxholes.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:34 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

WTF is your problem? Man up and explain to her you will no longer be part of the Fascism of CA and inform her you are leaving, with or without her, in six weeks for X (Idaho, WVirgina, etc.)

She'll come or she won't! Not your problem. Nothing on this green Earth makes me laugh more that gutless Betas and Omegas who 'compromise' with their wives, which ALWAYS means doing what she wants. Fuck that.

Act like you've got a cock between your legs and make your plans; she comes or she doesn't - her volition. Either way you free yourself from the festering shithole of CA.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:43 | Link to Comment donsluck
donsluck's picture

As a fellow Californian, I cordially invite you to leave.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:57 | Link to Comment Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Well, he's not going to free himself from the festering shithole's court system if she plays her trump card and files for divorce.  With a handle like Gringo Viejo, I surmise that he's in a long-term marriage.  IIRC, here in the PRK divorce after a marriage that lasted > 10 years  entitles the little woman to lifetime alimony; half the pension; etc.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:25 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Yea yea yea blah blah blah. Oh, no divorce rape!

Learn Portuguese or Spanish and then it's off to Costa Rica, Brazil...wherever.  After you've liquidated and hidden as much as you can. Oh, I know, it's for the kids! Gotta pay pay pay pay.

What an evil, slaving joke-and it ENDURES because HE-MEN bow down and take it square in their ass more forcefully and happily than any hardcore gay porn.

Half the pension? Let's run the numbers, what is half of zero? Think you'll get that pension, or it will buy anything? What, is this your first  day here?

Here's a powerful word a man can use, and I recommend it. No.

No.

I will not, despite what your 'law' says or what the neighbors think, be your slave, your bitch. No.

 

 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:38 | Link to Comment Flagit
Flagit's picture

great speech.

im in.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:42 | Link to Comment ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

How can I STAY in California and make the WIFE leave?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:57 | Link to Comment Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Excuse me sir, I'll have to probe your asshole to make sure you're not a freedom-hating terris.

- ISA (Internet Safety Administration)

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:43 | Link to Comment gonetogalt
gonetogalt's picture
  1. Another totally self centered Gen Xer 'me first' douche bag point of view.  Some people take the marriage contract seriously enough to consider themselves obligated 'till "death do us part".  Faith in God's ability to either keep one safe or fall into harm's way (under His protection and in His will) goes further to keep one truly safe than situational ethics.

 

And if you are seriously looking to avoid the coming mess, you have to go a lot farther than another of the lower 48.  And without a shitload of dough that's a real leap.  Real tough to haul your woman to a shit hole country without enough bucks to live a 'merikan life, there's more to all of it than just survival, there's survival (or lack thereof) with dignity and righteousness.

 

 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 21:10 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Yea yea yea.

Then tell me pal, how about her oath to honor and obey.

"We are leaving CA, get the FUCK in the car!" How 'bout that? Ohhhh I know, another White Knight who expects nothing from the wife, just from his side of the oath. Heh.

So, you catch her Fin a Cracker on Main Street...you stickin' around pal? Gonna work it out? Say,  she cuckolded you...gonna stay and pay?

Here's my contract pal, you'll do as we've agreed or you'll be on the skidz, this one-way shit doesn't fly in my world. 

"Real tough to haul your woman to a shit hole country without enough bucks to live a 'merikan life" Oh, I see. Death Do us part, God, Blah Blah BLAH...but I cannot have a Mercedes and that "Amerikan life" WTF ever that is as she defines it daily? Guess that's reason to DUMP YOUR ASS right? But that's OK for you, as you 'oath' is a one way street right? LOL.

"Faith in God's ability to either keep one safe or fall into harm's way (under His protection and in His will) goes further to keep one truly safe than situational ethics."

Yeah Yeah Yeah. God. Take your God and walk Detroit after 2 AM - see how many Angels save you.

People who mumble paeans to their 'oath' and 'God' and pathetically make it a one-sided obligation make me LOL. As do those who stand in front of a coming Tsunami as the tide rushes out, expecting divine intervention to save them and their family. That isn't being Godly, it's being a worthless bitch.

Here's a bible quote for you- "People that live in glass houses oughta shut the fuck up." 1st Corinthians 13

I've found invariably those who invoke the bible or an oath to explain their own acquiescence to a life a man would find intolerable to be a special kind of sad.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 21:23 | Link to Comment Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

"Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" 

Obey presidents and priests!!!  Religion is the original racket.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 21:24 | Link to Comment Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 22:01 | Link to Comment gonetogalt
gonetogalt's picture

I guess it comes down to whether you would walk Detroit at 2:00 AM to collect your wife in a broke down car or something similar...and be so cocky to think you don't need some devine help in the process...or some luck...think it's the same thing???  (and the appropriate equipment)

You think you're tough, OK, maybe you are, but the other thing you need is clear moral judgement...lack of which is why the Americans get the government they deserve...

 

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 01:14 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Strawman much?

Why wife? Why not new borne? As long as your spinnin' tales, call yourself Snake 'GoneToGalt' Plissken.

Um, why would my wife be in Detoiliet? To quote my Granddad, my bunghole will suck buttermilk before I ever set foot in Detoilet or ShitCongo.

And no, help from the Divine, the Creator is not the same as luck.  

As far as 'tough' goes...a smart man doesn't put himself in situations where he needs to draw down.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 22:20 | Link to Comment Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I see, so when things get tough and difficult you're only response is to run away? And that is being courageous to you? Cali may be in a shit of a mess but there is much here worth saving and I won't leave unless there is no hope or choice. Yes, I have made plans to escape if things have got truly bad. I'm very glad my husband wouldn't throw me in a car and tell me to shut the fuck up were leaving. I would respect his opinion and listen to his reasons but I would never respond to bullying by anyone. It doesn't sound like you would either so you seem hypocritical to me.

Miffed;-)

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 01:04 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

I see, so when things get tough and difficult you're only response is to run away? And that is being courageous to you? Cali may be in a shit of a mess but there is much here worth saving and I won't leave unless there is no hope or choice.

If you think CA can be 'saved' you have more than a few screws loose...I like your appeal painting people smart enough to get out while the getting is good as 'cowardice.' Funny stuff.

Here’s the thing, without the drama, Strum und Drang.

You are, as the husband, responsible;  check with God, and he agrees.

It isn’t your option, it is your duty to act to avoid the evil that encompasses and grows in CA like a cancer.

Perhaps my passionate posts, fueled by watching friends marriages break apart like a shuttle on re-entry, were inflammatory.

We are all adults…and if you explain the problem of an incoming Tsunami and someone refuses to move out of the tidal zone…well…that’s their problem. And the Devil drag them under.

No God or creed requires you to stay there and be drowned.  And if you decide to stay because your ‘loved one’ refuses to see…that’s a suicide.

We all have to make choices.

And choices have got to have voices.

Folks are basically decent, conventional wisdom would say.

But we read about the exceptions, in the papers everyday.

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 08:53 | Link to Comment Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

You think myopically like this is nazi Germany that all you have to do is leave the area of evil and all will be fine. Today it's not so simple. It's GLOBAL. There is no safe place and running from Cali may just be going from the pan to the fire. If I were absolutely miserable here and couldn't live a day here longer and my husband refused to leave I would leave him because, obviously we were no longer compatible. I do not stay here as some kind of Duty. I've lived here for forty years, most of them pleasant and I have forged good aliances with many like people. I judge it a good place to stay at present but will leave for the family farm in Washington when or if the times come. Just because someone stays at this point doesnt make them ignorant or deluded and I don't need permission from God to make a choice.

Miffed:-)

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 10:51 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

In other words, the wife is wrong but do what she says or it's time for a divorce.

I got a better idea: make a woman prove she's not a stupid bitch or don't get married.

Now in seriousness of context I don't mean just silly complaints: literally this is a woman that would tolerate Mussolini or Hitler and put arms in the air "what can we do" and not even LEAVE, forget fighting back. THAT is the bar I'm setting for stupid when the outcome is plain and obvious. The outcome IS PLAIN AND OBVIOUS and there's still time to leave.

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 13:08 | Link to Comment Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Leaving for me is a big decision. My husband because of his job can work anywhere there is decent Internet. If I were to leave or die he would probably leave Cali and move to Colorado where he loves. He is not desparate to go. I am not ready at this time because I would be unemployed where he would like to go and be totally dependent on him for income. We do not have adequate funds ( thanks bernank you asshole) for me to live if he were to die. I am independent and don't like the idea being put in a position of dependency. That is just me. My dad died and left my incompetent mother trying to take care of my brother and me. Her solution was to stay in bed and cry and my brother(15) and I (21) had to figure out how to support us. Yes, this left an indelible mark on me.

Everyone has to decide for himself the proper time to leave and history will decide who made the wise choice or who waited too long. I weigh the decision carefully and don't want to make it because of wild emotions. I don't consider myself a dumb bitch who blindly covets life here due to false security or willful ignorance. I watch carefully and tread lightly in a burning building.

Miffed;-)

Sat, 05/04/2013 - 01:46 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I meant that one particular woman, not you, wife of another poster.

Sorry.

Yes, I understand things have been hard... I hope you can make it. I'm learning all I can about what it will take to truly live off-grid, not living off an employer. It will come to that, and a lot more.

I'm sorry to hear of all places you're stuck in California. I have family there. It was great 25 years ago. Now I'd run screaming. Given any chance in the last 15 years to work there I always looked the other way.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:19 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

HA, you bring up a good point that really bugs me. These liberals are like economic locusts. They destroy everything everywhere they go while always denying it. I lived in Colorado a long time and the Californians have moved in and as usual they are driving the state to insanity and into the ground. Slowy but surely the Boulder crowd will grind it to pieces just like the refugee states from which they come.  Your clueless statement about her is true of so many. It is like the locusts lamenting that the wheat field has been destroyed not realizing their own nature did it. Of course, they then move on to a new one.

When I dream of a libertarian state one day after the collapse of this one it strikes me that at around age 18 we need to take some noncollectivist oath that involves the ideas that we own ourselves and we refuse to steal from our fellow citizens, even through the power of government. If you don't take the oath, fine. You get to move somewhere collectivist...like the rest of the world.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:29 | Link to Comment Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

@ FreedomGuy

One of my favorite quotes is by Dr. Thomas Sowell, an African-American, conservative scholar at Stanford.

"Few political gifts are more richly rewarded, than the ability to convince parasites that they are victims."

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 23:44 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Gringo, that is pure genius. It is the heart of modern liberal-statism. I will be quoting that. Thanks.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:39 | Link to Comment donsluck
donsluck's picture

Thought experiment. Libertarians rule and building codes are revoked. Your upstream neighbor decides to build a dam on the creek running through your property. Dam breaks and creams your house. Your only chance is to sue. If all codes are revoked, the court system would have to go through a massive expansion. It is far more efficient to prevent disaster then clean it up. Isn't Greenspans' excuse for allowing the housing bubble to expand a libertarian excuse, ie you can't prevent disaster, you can only clean up after it?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 21:01 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

First off, you could sue due to a damning of the creek. Second, building codes don't matter if there was a tresspass.  And damage to property is an easily proven trespass.

Court system would not have to go through any expansion.  All you need to do is convince a jury that a trespass was comitted.  

And why the hell would you bring Greenspan into an argument to poison the well?  Our money system is antithetical to freedom, no matter how it is run.

pods

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 23:59 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

donsluck, I am going to try and take you seriously out of courtesy, but you are so far behind in understanding liberty and libertarianism that I cannot catch you up. Libertarians are not about complete lawlessness. They are about "laws" as opposed to rules and regulations which are about 99% of our codes.  Let me offer you two points to consider if you are interested in more than sarcasm.

1. Where do you think codes come from in the beginning? You think a government clerk or Congressman sat down one day and wrote all the rules about wiring, plumbing, structures, etc in housing? Did the government or private, free people develop the modern training of doctors? When the government "regulates" oil, banking, drug development, etc. where did they get the original knowledge to do? Did the governmet in fact invent medicine, banking, construction, plumbing, etc.?

2. Let me use an analogy. When you look at a rain forest, old growth forest, pond, coral reef, who manages and controls all that to make sure there is order and fairness? A free economy is about like that. Government comes in to an incredibly complex, finely tuned, ever adapting system called an "economy" and begins dropping fertilzer from 5000 feet, followed by herbicide from 2000 feet, followed by controlled burns, etc. They look at the warped grotesque results and point proudly to a few trees and shrubs that grew twice as tall and a few weeds that died and call it success. Anyone who knew what the original forest looked like or a free forest looks like will be horrified.

Try those ideas on for size.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 23:59 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

donsluck, I am going to try and take you seriously out of courtesy, but you are so far behind in understanding liberty and libertarianism that I cannot catch you up. Libertarians are not about complete lawlessness. They are about "laws" as opposed to rules and regulations which are about 99% of our codes.  Let me offer you two points to consider if you are interested in more than sarcasm.

1. Where do you think codes come from in the beginning? You think a government clerk or Congressman sat down one day and wrote all the rules about wiring, plumbing, structures, etc in housing? Did the government or private, free people develop the modern training of doctors? When the government "regulates" oil, banking, drug development, etc. where did they get the original knowledge to do? Did the governmet in fact invent medicine, banking, construction, plumbing, etc.?

2. Let me use an analogy. When you look at a rain forest, old growth forest, pond, coral reef, who manages and controls all that to make sure there is order and fairness? A free economy is about like that. Government comes in to an incredibly complex, finely tuned, ever adapting system called an "economy" and begins dropping fertilzer from 5000 feet, followed by herbicide from 2000 feet, followed by controlled burns, etc. They look at the warped grotesque results and point proudly to a few trees and shrubs that grew twice as tall and a few weeds that died and call it success. Anyone who knew what the original forest looked like or a free forest looks like will be horrified.

Try those ideas on for size.

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 10:48 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

experiment-FAIL.

Libertarians don't revoke existing building codes ... the concept is merely to revoke the state's right over property rights instead of YOUR Rights. You still have a right to demand buildings be safe & to specify your own code, or to demand something not safe be sold at a very low price to you because it's not safe. The more vocally you expose the unsafe building the cheaper you can get it and everyone benefits.

 

As for a dam, a flood, poison, explosives, etc., if someone does wilful damage to your property using theirs the solution is obvious. Firearms. I wouldn't hesitate to use massive damage or death in return when extreme damage is happening. NO hesitation at all. If you don't act fast enough you may not survive at all, depending on what it is. No building codes invoked by the state would prevent the damage either.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 22:22 | Link to Comment zjxn06
zjxn06's picture

"I lived in Colorado a long time and the Californians have moved in and as usual they are driving the state to insanity and into the ground. Slowy but surely the Boulder crowd will grind it to pieces just like the refugee states from which they come."

Spot on.  Lived in Boulder for 8 year before moving to a more sane Louisville, Colorado.

Boulder was "weird" before Californication.  Now, it's polluted by a bunch of liberal misfits.

Bumper stickers in Boulder...

Right side: "Save the Prairie Dogs!"

Left Side: "I support a Woman's  Right to Chooose" (to kill her baby)

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:22 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

HA, you bring up a good point that really bugs me. These liberals are like economic locusts. They destroy everything everywhere they go while always denying it. I lived in Colorado a long time and the Californians have moved in and as usual they are driving the state to insanity and into the ground. Slowy but surely the Boulder crowd will grind it to pieces just like the refugee states from which they come.  Your clueless statement about her is true of so many. It is like the locusts lamenting that the wheat field has been destroyed not realizing their own nature did it. Of course, they then move on to a new one.

When I dream of a libertarian state one day after the collapse of this one it strikes me that at around age 18 we need to take some noncollectivist oath that involves the ideas that we own ourselves and we refuse to steal from our fellow citizens, even through the power of government. If you don't take the oath, fine. You get to move somewhere collectivist...like the rest of the world.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 23:29 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

It isn't just Colorado- a vast wave of scum from the North is washing over the South.  The two legged plauge rats destroy the area they live in, then move elsewhere and turn it into the same sewer they left.

If things did totally collapse the silver lining would be the near complete extinction of the carpetbaggers, those who didn't starve would be hunted for sport.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:09 | Link to Comment BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

I'm for building a wall around California. Let no one move out. Let them destroy themselves or fight it out.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:36 | Link to Comment trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

They were just looking for a sacrifice for Bohemian Grove. Cut them some slack, they have to appease their supreme being.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:44 | Link to Comment Boondocker
Boondocker's picture

Sac County has a horrible reputation for bad removals....

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:04 | Link to Comment Aeternus
Aeternus's picture

Can we exile Kalifornia from the union already?

 

Unreal.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deuC8GPr31A

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:20 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Many Californians would like that were it possible without them getting shot in the back like Lincoln did to the South.

California sends a lot more money to Washington DC than it receives. Its citizens are net losers in the federal feeding trough.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 23:38 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Absolute BULLSHIT. California is the #3 overall recipient of Federal money. Quit lying, asshole.

2010 consolidated Federal Funds report, Table 13 total expenditure-

http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/cffr-10.pdf

2010 IRS taxes collected by state.

http://www.irs.gov/uac/SOI-Tax-Stats-Gross-Collections,-by-Type-of-Tax-and-State,-Fiscal-Year-IRS-Data-Book-Table-5

$273,353,106,000 collected, $333,809,000,000 received.

In California, getting $60 billion more than you sent is a net DONOR? How fucking stupid are you people, no wonder you're an economic black hole.

California is the #3 parasite state in the country, exceeded only by Florida (75 billion) and Virginia (78 billion). Quit being so lazy and accepting unsourced crap articles as reality, do some research and do the math.

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 23:32 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Bull shit, eh?

"In fiscal year 2003, Californians’ tax payments to the federal treasury exceeded federal spending in the state by $50 billion, a record high."

http://www.calinst.org/pubs/balance2003.htm

Federal payments per capita per state ( BOP), for which the latest data I found was 1999.

ST BOP 1999 1992-2008

-- ---------- -

CT -$2,840.00 B

NJ -$2,342.00 B

NH -$1,787.00 B

IL -$1,669.00 B

NV -$1,583.00 B

MN -$1,294.00 B

MI -$1,042.00 B

BE -$1,025.00 B

MA -$895.00 B

NY -$890.00 B

WI -$887.00 B

CA -$685.00 B

WA -$533.00 B

OR -$483.00 B

OH -$344.00 B

FL $47.00 B

PA $256.00 B

VT $343.00 B

RI $528.00 B

IA $750.00 B

MO $1,187.00 B

ME $1,324.00 B

MB $1,770.00 B

HI $1,982.00 B

NM $3,944.00 B

CO -$620.00 R

IN -$399.00 R

TX -$189.00 R

GA -$29.00 R

NC $146.00 R

UT $230.00 R

NE $320.00 R

KS $373.00 R

WY $386.00 R

IB $829.00 R

AZ $904.00 R

TN $961.00 R

SC $1,265.00 R

LA $1,576.00 R

KY $1,595.00 R

AR $1,633.00 R

OK $1,866.00 R

AL $2,091.00 R

SB $2,327.00 R

MS $2,684.00 R

AK $2,777.00 R

WV $2,808.00 R

NB $3,043.00 R

VA $3,069.00 R

MT $3,109.00 R

AvgBOP Red $1,310.20

AvgBOP Blue $-$246.72

http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=43286

You're stupid and your mother dresses you funny.

Sun, 05/05/2013 - 10:46 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

You are truly an idiot.  I put up original primary source data from 2010, you put up some cooked numbers bullshit from some "California Institute of Obfuscation and Horseshit" from a decade ago.

When you drill down into the actual data, yes California was a $8 billion donor in 2003- but by 2010 it was a 60 billion dollar sponge.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 20:20 | Link to Comment steelhead23
steelhead23's picture

So..., what if this flu were H1N1?  Would that change your perspective?  Look, Black is being propagandistic here.  We see this story only from the parents, bewildered perspective.  Here in Oregon we have seen parents convicted of neglect for allowing their child to die from treatable diseases due to their religious beliefs.  Given Black's perspective here, Jeffrey Dahmer should be allowed to eat his children if he so desired.  There are limits to parental rights.  Ask any abused child.  This case looks awful - and may be so, but Black's essay adds zero to our understanding of the case.  Don't be so easily led.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 21:05 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Simon's essay had nothing to do with this case, it has to do with a principle.  

Who owns your children?

The case merely is a potent illustration of something that few realize, and fewer accept.

Until the hammer of the state comes down upon you.

pods

 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 22:58 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

pods, I don't mean to pick on/at you, but your question,

who owns your children?

certainly applies to women who fall pregnant and for whatever their reason, choose not to carry full term.

yes?

I'm only using your question to make a point to all those who would claim that a woman loses her own body rights once a zygote is formed.

and desires the State to intervene in the woman's right.

some consistency dudes, seriously.

 

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 04:41 | Link to Comment Acet
Acet's picture

+1 This

Freedom is not just about being free to trade with whomever you want in whatever way you want, it's also moral freedom.

That means abortion, drug consumption, any and all sexual activties with consenting adults: the whole enchillada.

Anybody wanting to impose their moral standards on others is at best anti-freedom at worst a hypocrit.

 

The problem is with wanting the state to enforce "freedom", which is really no freedom at all.

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 11:04 | Link to Comment Abaco
Abaco's picture

Your thinking on abortion is muddled. Do what you want but you cannot harm others. Abortion is indisputably the killing of human life. You may argue that suicide is permissible under your concept of freedom but one person taking the life of another without their consent is a different concept. It is difficult because the unborn child resides within the body of the woman and so there is an inherent conflict of "rights."  But you cannot develop a logical construction that allows for abortion that does not also provide for other types of murder. Similarly, you cannot develop a logical construction that disallows abortion that does not also provide for other types of forced submission. This can only be done when there is a hierarchy of values. The pro-life argument is that the defense of life is the ultimate good and is a principle that minimizes subsidiary infringement upon freedom. The pro-abortion argument necessarily hinges upon the absolute freedom of the individual as the highest value. However, this argument fails because it maximizes subsidiary infringement upon freedom. 

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 04:59 | Link to Comment Random
Random's picture

I assume you do not have a child of your own. If you did you will not be mixing owning your own body with abortion, whatever the reason. If you were a mother you would never think of anything else but the well being of your kid.

 

I agree with you on many things but on this you are dead wrong (no pun intended).

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 06:58 | Link to Comment Acet
Acet's picture

I personally know at least one woman from a poor background that chose abortion rather than bringing a child to live under the situation she was in. It wasn't an easy choice at all.

Having an abortion is about the well being of the future kid (a 3 week-old fertilized egg is not a kid) - it's about choosing not to bring that child to the world to live a life of pain and misery.

 

If you yourself choose to see a fetus which is not self aware and would be unable to survive outside its mother's womb as a kid and treat it as a kid, that's your choice. Just don't try to use the cohercive and violent power of the law to impose that choice on others.

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 07:50 | Link to Comment Random
Random's picture

I resent having my beliefs imposed on anyone. I was just expressing my opinion on the comment without the slightest statist hint (i do not see anywhere in my comment any mention of violence so i don't know where you've seen that). 

Regarding the "it's about choosing not to bring that child to the world to live a life of pain and misery": that is not a fact, not even a probability but rather a possibility. My opinion is that it would be way better to let that kid have a life and see how it turns out. If the kid decides that his life (at whatever age) is full of pain and misery he/she can take whatever decision likes. Killing that hope is a great tragedy. Also, why is the "pain and misery" line always brought into the discussion? Can't we ask the question like this: why bring someone into this world to live a long, prosperous and happy life and see how the decision is make based on these assumptions? Also, i assume that woman is from one of the "civilized" countries. If that is true, even in her perceived poverty she is better off compared to 90% of the people on this planet. If this is the case why not kill all "non-beings" in the 3rd world? Isn't that the humane thing to do, instead of condemning those million of kids to a life of pain and misery"?

 

My 2 cents. Please refute.

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 09:29 | Link to Comment Acet
Acet's picture

I think there is nobody better than the prospective mother (if possible together with her partner) to make the decision of wether she should bring a child to the world or not. I don't see the moment of conception as a valid point to take that decision away from a woman.

If the woman decides for whatever reason that she should bring a child to the world, then that's her choice and we must respect her decision.

If the woman decides for whatever reason that she should not bring a child to the world, then that's her choice and we must respect her decision.

If anybody wants to try and convince said woman through non-cohercive methods that she should choose it one way or the other, that's also something we should respect.

 

Unfortunately as soon as the law gets involved in morality, people's natural rights stop being respected. That's the bit I'm against.

 

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 09:56 | Link to Comment Random
Random's picture

IMHO the problem is the feel good rhetoric that is meant to make the decision easier, as in:

- that is not a human being (yet);

- it is better to kill instead of bringing another poor soul into this wicked world;

- free abortion;

- the decision to have an abortion is just a life style choice;

 

There is no guilt attached to killing! How fucked up is that?

 

All of the above are meant to make the decision socially acceptable, all in the name of "freedom/liberty". Why isn't an uproar against cavity searches? Isn't your body sacred anymore?

Lets put this into perspective:

- it is legal to kill a child but it is not legal to practice prostitution;

- it is legal to kill a child but it is not legal to smoke in pubs;

- it is legal to kill a child but it is not legal to smoke pot (i don't want to bring other illegal substances into this discussion to prevent muddying the waters);

- it is legal to kill a child but it is not legal to drive without your seat belt or while talking on a cellphone;

- it is legal to kill a child but it is not legal to raise some chickens in the backyard within city limits;

- it is legal to kill a child but it is not legal to abuse an animal;

- it is legal to kill a child but it is not legal to beat a kid (i don't condone beating up kids, but i use this to put things in perspective);

 

I could go on for ever (i think i over did it already) but the pattern is easy to discern: kill - OK, do random shit - not OK.

 

Please explain this and please let me know how do you stand for killing while it is somehow wrong to do random shit (victimless).

 

Thanks in advance!

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 10:42 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

What you call "feel good rehetoric" are in fact FACTS, hard carved in stone FACTS devoid of opinion.

A zygote is NOT a child and a mother in poverty will have CHILDREN in poverty, the very thing you fear the most as that feeds the welfare state.

A woman aborting now if she needs to and having a child say, 5 years later will perhaps not be in poverty and neither will her child.

What asssinine fuckhead can't understand this just wants to see people put into poverty for no good reason at all.

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 10:56 | Link to Comment Random
Random's picture

So for you cherry picking is the name of the game. Ok, let's play: "5 years later will perhaps not be in poverty". You claim something that may occur (perhaps) as a FACT?

Killing is a fact, "perhaps" not so much. I didn't based my statement on "the woman will win the lottery the next day after giving birth" but i see you have no problem invoking that kind of scenario.

Btw, are you a salary man or were you born into a rich family? I hope you catch my drift...

Cheers!

Fri, 05/03/2013 - 06:33 | Link to Comment Acet
Acet's picture

Your entire argument is based on calling "child" or "kid" to a fertilized egg which is not self-aware and unable to survive outside the mother's womb.

That might go down well on a circle of like-minded individuals but it won't pass muster with anybody that actually really thinks hard about things.

You stating your opinion and then labeling it as "fact" doesn't make it a fact. And your comparissons betweek killing a kid and several things do nothing to address the weakness of your argument (i.e. your classification of a zygote as "kid") and are a cheap appeal to emotion that only really works with the weak-minded.

It sounds a lot like you yourself have consumed somebody else's idea wholesale and without thinking about it and are now just parroting it out ...

 

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 11:06 | Link to Comment Abaco
Abaco's picture

You have offered an assertion - not an argument.  Why would you not object to the woman killing the child and yet justify objecting to someone else killing you?

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 11:17 | Link to Comment Random
Random's picture

I think both situations are wrong. Where is the disconnect?

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 10:39 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

h1n1 still can't be cured with antibiotics.

Idiot.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 21:54 | Link to Comment The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

Administering  antibiotics for flu symptoms.  I haven't even been to medical school but I know that's the wrong prescription. Even worse, the nurse administering the ABs didn't even know what she was administering or why. Hospitals are a great place to go to die.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 22:35 | Link to Comment Spider55
Spider55's picture

Unless the child was have a high fever, there was no need to take the child to the hospital, abuse of the health care system by illegal Russians, probably on welfare!

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 22:36 | Link to Comment Silver Bully
Silver Bully's picture

The second mistake is attempting to take ANYTHING posted by Simon Black as the truth.

No cop is going to simply arrest someone because he feels like it, walk into a house without a warrant, violate multiple parts of the constitution, and (more pragmatically) risk getting his department sued into the ground.

Anyone can read that article and know we're not getting anywhere near the full story. ZH posts an incredibly diverse number of authors, but . . . these Simon Black posts are so embarrassing, I think it does the site more harm than the financial good he pays to the Tylers.

 

 

 

Thu, 05/02/2013 - 00:00 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

Either that, or there's more to the story, right?

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:06 | Link to Comment Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

welkome to amerika........now sue all concerned into oblivion

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:13 | Link to Comment SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Why people live in the shithole known as California I will NEVER understand.

Had a company offer me a job out there.  I turned them down flat.  They asked why?  The final comment in that conversation was "If I move out there I am committing 350+ FELONIES with my moving truck.   Silence on the other line.

A round of 50BMG is a fucking FELONY in that shithole.   Ridiculous doesn't even begin to describe that fucked up state. 

 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:41 | Link to Comment agNau
agNau's picture

They are the frontline defense for the country as they inhale the toxins of Fukushima.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 22:29 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

I have a lot of respect for a person that can deliver 1.7 ounces of love.. to a space a half inch in diameter.. at 3 tons of kinetic energy per square inch.. at three times the speed of sound..  from a mile away.

doing that with great precision is indeed, something to be admired, 

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 18:52 | Link to Comment SemperFord
SemperFord's picture

So we should live in some unbearable place because we are afraid of Government goons? 

I have been up early, run at the beach(some surfed the waves) driven to shoot firearms in the mojave dessert after eating breakfast at a good diner (Crazy Ottos). On the way back decided to go hiking and jump in some freshwater at the LA forest and hit up a good sushi Joint. Then drive two hours to party in Mexico or anywhere else in LA for that matter, life is short, one must be aware of the BS but not let it ruin the time we have.

Ohhh yeah also the weather, did I mention the weather, it's pretty fantastic almost al year round, I don't have to have AC, or heater. I don't have to hide in my home because there is a blizzard outside or it's 120* F. These are some of the reasons people live in California.

 

Edit: Oh yeah, it's not just Kalifornia that is going to shit, it's the whole country

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:15 | Link to Comment Colonel
Colonel's picture

Such a lovely place
Such a lovely face
They livin' it up at the hotel california
What a nice surprise, bring your alibis...

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:25 | Link to Comment cifo
cifo's picture

Blizzards are awesome!

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:21 | Link to Comment Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

 

 

It's only a model.

Wed, 05/01/2013 - 19:21 | Link to Comment noless
noless's picture

Fuck California, from Oregon with love.

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